Making sense of the Covid-19 vaccines - Part II - NHS Kent and Medway

tonight we're here to discuss vaccination but hopefully we would have Insight out of this conversation that would help us make U informed decisions on our stand when it comes to do with vaccination and I'm so excited to have me here healthc Care Professionals so we're not getting people who have no understanding of what this conversation about but we were Healthcare professionals who would sort of guide us through this whole thing about vaccination hopefully by the end of this conversation we would have broken certain myths um change mindset and also giving us a better understanding in order to help us protect ourselves and protect our community I've got another Point here which actually I I had an experience with this over the weekend so over the weekend I went and had my fourth booster and when I announced I was actually at a a gathering and I said I've got to go and take my f boost and everybody PS me again you know when are you going to stop when is this whole booster upon booster upon booster going to stop and I think it's something that really people are thinking are we have having to go and get a booster every year is this going to be our life for the rest what do you have to say about things like that it's it's almost like the same way we keep getting new Prime Ministers newers um you know I think Dr Logan touched on it earlier we had different variants of the vaccine um and there is this ongoing mutation so that affects the the the uh the drives for vaccination it means we may need to top up essentially on our immunity because it wains over time so it's important to say that I think we I imagine it will become more stable people need to think about other diseases that require regular vaccination like the flu you know that's an annual uh uh process and you know you don't you don't hear people saying you know again on in the same way so again I think because it's new you know there is there is this attention on covid and people get fatigue you get vaccine fatigue if you've had like you've had your fourth booster you know someone says you got to have another one number five number six you get a bit tired um of it but I think it's important to understand the way the virus itself is progressing it's the driver for these decisions you know there's no one sitting in in a room somewhere saying yeah let's just go for another round of vaccinations so everything is led by the science um and I think we we we should this is my my view that we would get to a more stable position where the vaccinations are less frequent but I don't think we're quite there yet yeah any of you want to add on to no I think um he said exactly right so um we call it as jcv which is Joint Committee for vaccination and immunization they can kind of do all this rigorous process of looking at various you know different um variants and what's happening around the world and how actually the virus is behaving and and therefore how it's actually having an impact and therefore how frequent we need to do so I think we are expecting the GCV guidelines in the new year uh for us to tell in terms of the moving forward for the next calendar year yeah can I just add to that because we know that the Autumn booster were um focused on 50 year olds and above in previous parts of the campaign we' gone all the way down to 5 year old is because we're learning more about the vaccines and we're trying to protect the most vulnerable of our community so the elderly P um elderly community so anyone over 50 years of age is eligible for a booster because of the signs that sits behind it and the younger ones are not eligible because we know that it had do the impact or the um the effect is not that high at on that age group so I think it's important that we hold on to the point it's science scientifically LED and and and it's h dictated by we will be looking at the different cohorts and how that is managed as we move forward with the program so with having you guys people from the um Health Care you know sector would you be able to tell us what has been the fatalities in terms of because that's another area that people are worried about X person says I know somebody who took it and he died and all sort of conversations I don't know whether there's any statistics out there that can clearly show us that listen out of the 80% that we've ruled out um two this is the percentage that you know got affected negatively or whatever is there any report or anything like that out there I mean I don't have National Data But but so I can I can speak from my position so I look after um the clinical and quality aspects of the vaccinations for Kenton Medway where we've delivered just over 2 million vaccinations um and I see all the incidents that that take place um across that entire system and I haven't had one single uh incident of a fatality so from that perspective um I think it it shows the safety profile of of vaccination you know there would be adverse reactions to vaccine as as there are to many other drugs you know some of the most common drugs paracetamol ibuprofen for instance you know those are they're not safe as it were you know there is still the possibility of side effects this is part and parcel of vaccination in fact some of these adverse reactions to vaccination so headaches fevers and so on almost there an indication that the vaccine is is doing its job um so speaking from that perspective I think hopefully that demonstrates the the safety profile of of vaccination and and Philip can I just add the point around that ongoing monitoring and surveillance of all the vaccinations we use because I don't know if you remember when we had the astroica vaccine very quickly the moment we started seeing High incidents of um adverse effects it was quickly reviewed and then we stopped using that so we could move on to what we knew was kind of giving us less incidents of Adverse Events so I think that ongoing surveillance and every incident that happens with a vaccination is reported so we collect and track data so that we can share and I'm sure when you go into that visit MH you will find information about incidents um on there and yeah that interest because that that brings me um to a point where now I wanted to speak to people that haven't even had their first um covid vaccine to take them through that experience so I don't know if any of you can take a spit what's the process how do they feel when they take it you know some people are saying you know you you're going to feel Fe I mean there's so many different information about as to when you take it and some people who we been like their little alcohol say oh when you take you can't been drink for you know a week and all that you know there's so many different conversations out there would you want to take us through that experience um so I mean I've I've worked in in the vaccination setting itself right delivering vaccination and ultimately the the processes that patients are assessed at the point of entry making sure that they're they're suitable for That vaccine um this is done by a clinician who takes them through the safety profile so it's not a case of just standing up and someone sticks something in your arm you know there are conversations that I had just to make sure um that the vaccine is right for the patient and the patient is right for the vaccine um in terms of the aftermath of vaccination it is the most common uh uh side effects are soreness so sorum because the vaccine is injected into the muscle so even if you you know if you think about a muscle that's strained you will get some soreness from it naturally um and because of the reaction of the body to the vaccine um there's an immune response that can present as uh fever um or high temperature a headache um and just a general feeling of unwellness these are the most common um reactions from vaccination not everybody gets it those who don't get it shouldn't think that the vaccine isn't working you know everybody reacts differently to vaccines and it's also important to mention that what the vaccine does is that it introduces what we call a spike protein which is what sits on the virus into the body it does not you know there they're not live vaccine so you cannot get covid from vaccination but it just introduces a a protein that's similar to what the VAC the virus will introduce into the body and primes your immune system so that when you do get the uh the the the virus you know if you do your body knows what to do and how to deal with it so this is the advantage of vaccination um and vaccination doesn't mean you would never get the virus or you would never suffer any ill effect of the disease it simply reduces the possibility that that would happen and reduces the long-term complications because your body knows what to do and he better prepared to deal with to to deal with the the the the disease so hopefully that gives people a bit of confidence around vaccine and you can drink your alcohol no problem stra away you just you've just mentioned something because that's one statement I keep people here said but he took the vaccine and he caught covid you know so can you educate us that I mean you've highlighted it but can you really stress from that point they keep saying that well I took the vaccine and I CAU covid yeah I mean you know you can take paracetamol but you still have a headache um I like that so I think it's important just the point we need to drive home is that the vaccines are there to reduce the incidence of disease rather than you know uh take the possibility of it down to zero you know there is no vaccine that can stop any disease from certainly happening um but it certainly reduces the possibility of disease and the intensity and and severity of the disease as well when you do get it um so I think that's what people need to need to remember it's very possible to have the vaccine and then go on to get covid it's it's not an impossibility and I think just adding on from the clinical experience you know I think in the earli waves or waves two there was lots of talk about our Intensive Care Unit sort of completely being filled up no capacity but as you can see sequentially in the subsequent waves there's lots of talk about hospitalizations but the itu beds are no longer filled up you know that they still get covid yes you're right but they don't end up as sick and they they turn around they go back home quickly so and I know I think pris mentioned earlier about even taking the vaccine to protect others so what's this all about you know why should I take a vaccine to protect other people I thought I'm taking to protect myself what's so we talked about the elderly and being the most vulnerable of our communities and during the height of the pandemic we saw the high level of mortality in that um age group so and we know that the younger people are um will carry viruses and probably not feel un will never feel unwell from that virus and therefore seeing their elderly parents families can easily transmit which could impact on those individuals so I think the message is have your vaccine to protect yourself and your loved ones which is important because your your elderly parents or your grandparents might be at risk without you knowing and then you pass it on and I think that was a message must have been was it last Christmas and still holds now this this um Christmas period yeah and I think just to add to what Priscilla said for the current vaccination campaign the Autumn booster program one of the criteria for eligibility is if you're a household contact of someone who is clust as at risk or immunosuppressed you should get vaccinated you know prisilla mentioned earlier that the the age group begins at 50 for people who are classed as healthy but just to highlight the importance of getting vaccinated to protect the people around you your loved ones who are more vulnerable to the disease um you know it's something that people need to think about as well so if people are in constant contact so living with patients who are at risk um and that's a wide uh definition you know people who have specific diseases or taking certain types of medicines that reduce their ability to fight disease they we encourage them to to make sure they get vaccinated as well to protect themselves but also their their loved ones could I could I also add I think at this point especially uh my message for people who have never taken even the first do I think they've come this far about two years now there are more evidence clinical evidence and more people have been saved and lot of you know less mortality and less covid symptoms and they that is actually a clear evidence why they should get vaccinated so there is nothing to worry about it's all backed up clinical evidence so therefore if it's an opportunity please do go and vaccinate would be my message that really brings me to you actually because I'm sitting here thinking all right so the the people out there listening they think okay this sounds like I need to take action but how easy is it for and especially when we talking about the people that are being affected most those that are not um responding is people from the black African Caribbean communities the P the Asian Pakistani Bangladeshi and then Chinese and we now got the Eastern Europe here court and coming in now we know we outside the fact that they are skeptical about we also know that their lifestyle and the way they operate within their communities means that they are not that flexible to just get up and go out there and get themselves vaccinated things now from your point VI you representing Us in that space What systems are you put in place to make it easy for us to be to engage and take on this I think we call it as an evergreen offer which means the offer is always there if you have never had vaccination it's never too late come and have it um you can speak to the GP you can go and speak to a community pharmacist you can book it online absolutely and there are many uh GPS offer evenings and Community pharmacist also offer evenings weekends and also special Prisa mentioned there's quite a lot of um Outreach office available as well in a sense that you know mobile bus or a van and certain places and popup clinics in a shopping mall is available as well so there's lots of OPP unities I would say so they can pick from all of these opportunities please go and get vaccinated we're not seeing those big tens that sort of became the sort of landmark or locations where we all kind of recognize that this is where you go for your covid vaccine or stuff that so you're PR you're talking about vases and vans how are you promoting this to the people in the community to be aware so we we're using um radio um kind of advertising through billboards um through our GP practices and also making sure that on the national booking system online you can book and when you go online you can find the nearest walk-in service um what we're also trying to encourage is if people know whether within their communities they haven't been vaccinated we're always willing to take a bus out to them we're willing to go to churches we're willing to go to places of worship anywhere that we know we can reach our communities so if anyone is able to kind of support the Outreach but I think there's a lot and lot of information out there on how to um access a vaccine now the big topic trust that's been one of the key reasons why the community is disengaging with any Outreach activity that obviously the Health Service is putting out within the community and obviously some of these issues are justifiable because of personal experiences and people are going to say to how do we trust them how can we trust the National Health Service to be on our side when from our point of view we feel that they have never been there for our side and I think this is a an area because of the way you each of you uniquely deal in the community I'm sure you probably have something to assure us that it's not same old same old but things have moved on so I don't know who would want to kickart that it's it's I think like I said earlier it's important to acknowledge people's views some of which are based in in historical facts um but you know from 1948 when the NHS would began till now I think we we've moved on a lot um and you know in order for you to trust you have to be armed with some knowledge yourself um because that's the only way you're going to accept the service has been offered to you um so you know people like myself and my colleagues here in the community doing that Outreach work um uh you know we've whole had the vaccine ourselves obviously uh and that's important to say and I think trust also can be eroded when myth prevails so you you talked earlier around um the the the MRNA vaccines one of the things or a couple of things that has been perpetuated is that a say you're been tracked yeah by the vaccine because it's they injecting something into you in fact I was uh we I was with my colleagues we went to do an Outreach in a prison and I was speaking to this young man and he said oh no I'm not having the vaccine because they're going to track me and I said to him you're in prison where they know where you are already so no one's tracking you but you know it's important to to to add that the these are not based in any fact the other thing that that people says that the vaccine will change your DNA and so on and I think that comes from the fact that the vaccines are called mRNA vaccines you know and then 2 plus 2 becomes 10 you know it's all about it's simply about the sequencing and the way the vaccines are developed it's got nothing to do with DNA it does nothing to alter any of that um you know like I said earlier it simply primes the body by introducing a spike protein so you know I think it's important to listen to the fact or facts around vaccination and that would help increase that trust which in turn would hopefully bring people um to to vaccination sites and centers to to get their jobs right I think it's also how within our communities we Access Health Care Services so um I think we are not very proactive and actually going out and um seeking that those health services and I think as now the NHS is starting to look at how we can make every contact with our communities count and every touch Point um have an intervention of one sort so it's not just about the co vaccination but how can you support you in terms of checking your blood pressure in terms of checking your um weight and having given you that Health messages and health advice so we are not just looking at vaccinations but I think we are reaching out into our communities to do a Hol istic um offer of um protecting and preventing long-term illnesses within the community so I think we we've talked about vaccinations but there's a wider Health agenda here that we need to start talking about within our communities accessing Healthcare is really important I'm from an African background you would only go and see your doctor when you are unwell you don't go in and see your doctor when just to have a checkup and I think we need to start changing that narrative within our community it's so important to go in and have your health check alongside that as preventative you have your vaccination alongside and those key messages are really important for us to share um with within our our communities I think just I mean adding on from what AB said about um the Amar vaccine doesn't change your DNA well there is something that does that that's called gene therapy and that's 2 million per shot so um the vaccine so the vaccine doesn't do that I can tell you that yeah but I mean as a as a public health uh consultant I'm sure you are very often queried in terms of trust something that really come you are seeing the the numbers you're seeing the STA because you you're in there you're seeing people you know being impacted by whatever disease or whatever it that's going but when you sort of raise that conversation with them there is an element of trust thinking that h i I wouldn't get this resolved if I sort of move into the National Health set how are you sort of uh counter counteracting such um mindset I think sometimes it can be quite difficult and it com like to my own sort of clinical practice but you know it's an old things when patients enter the Health Service you know um other than hospitals it's just a two-way conversation and of course everyone is adult and everyone can consent to do what they want their bodies but um we're here to make the country a better place so you know our intentions are right and for what it's worth you know we know the science is right and we'll have an honest conversation about it and I think you are literally in the mix of it all because you're EDI and you'll be hearing that about TR and obvious that's why you're there to make sure that there's Equity there's you know now what's your take on this when they come up to you and say we don't trust the system yeah and I think one of the important thing I think Priscilla slightly touched it in terms of you know where it's quite important which messages are being relied and from which source so it is going to um you know not really uh not not really believing what's on WhatsApp or Facebook or that kind of stuff but from a trusted Source like uh you know National Health Services or even doctors from your own Community um you know go and speak to them if you don't rely on what's actually you're reading you know speak to a trusted s source and get that information from a reliable source and talk about vaccination is what I would say and that's why when we see patients and we see different communities we provide information and we sign post them their their own Community leaders or faith leaders uh to promote that and to give the right information about vaccination now this is so important because what what I'm seeing and that's why we decided that we want to have a panel that's as diverse as this because people in in our communities don't tend to see a representation of them when it comes to these conversations so they feel like they are piggy banking on somebody else's conversation and that even then erotes on the trust because to have people that reflect them from different backgrounds on a panel like this speaking to this community sort of would draw them closer to saying actually so we've got black Asian you know you D it healthare professionals who are as committed to this whole program you know than any other one and I think that's why we feel that this sort of conversation needs to be had more than than of and also having more ambassadors from within you your the health care professional really going out there and speaking to the community because most of these people would like you mentioned would go to their Community leaders now these Community leaders are not Healthcare professionals you know they may be spiritual leaders or they maybe you know what not which they have you know they good experience in their own right but I think I'm not sure whether they are capable and qualified to have these sort of conversations you know so what are you guys um what what if I say you guys in terms of what's the NH is doing in order to utilize people like yourselves to really help influence these influences sure you know I mean I think you know you mentioned Faith leaders um and some of the work that that's been going on and that we're Contin to do is working with these Faith leaders so imams pastors um you know working with you know wardens of of Youth centers prisons because these are the people that listened to by these communities and so if you arm them with the right information they are able to disseminate that to their communities where um and people trust those voices um so it's it's that's that's part of the the work that we're doing so working directly within those communities rather than having a voice uh that's very Central telling people what to do I think it's important to get down and then by doing that we understand some of the reasons for the hesitancy a lot more and then we can address it and I think proba you mentioned WhatsApp messages I think definitely do not trust WhatsApp messages it's the worst source of information absolutely I've banned my mom from sending me so yeah yeah I think I think we need to do more of this we need to talk to our communities more so the more you have healthc Care Professionals having these conversations I think it will engender that trust that we're looking for within that Community um I think one of the pieces of work we've done within Kent and Medway is actually sending people out there to talk to address those hesitancies and people who look like them so we have invested in black and ethnic minority Champions to go out and speak to our um these Community our communities because I think there's something about having that personal conversation feeling that that person understands you and understands your culture and your background and is able to um answer some of those questions so we are investing and the NHS is very supportive of that we have worked with um different groups um look look Dr Logan talked about um champions during the testing program and it's the similar approach we're using with the vaccination program as well so that when they are discussing the issues there are things that are quite pertinent to the black and ethnic minority communities which are very different for from our um other other uh communities so we we recognize that and we address that those those when we're out there Logan I don't no I think my colleagues have summed it out nicely yeah yeah yeah okay so we got time I would want us to sort of wrap up but I think it would be important for each one of you because you represent a community you represent a group to really speak your heart out to this these people that are watching us today and encourage them especially this season where we're all coming together as people to celebrate each other and move into this new year and this you AG let's encourage um those that are watching about getting themselves boosted I don't know what can we can we share something with them let's encourage I mean so I think I'm going to approach this from a very personal and I hope that's okay um because I think we've we've spoken about the science quite a bit um you know and I personally know of someone who is in the in the black community very young fit person who hadn't uh had any vaccines or vaccinations as far as Co was concerned um and unfortunately and and I'm talking someone who's fit athletic you know full of life unfortunately contracted the the virus um and is currently a complete shadow of the the person he was because now he's got long covid so a health condition has debilitated significantly and he has become unrecognizable you would not believe that this is the same person from 6 months ago um and I'm not saying that to you know scare anyone it's just a reality um and it's what I've seen personally so I would urge people to continue to inform themselves there is no compulsion you know it's a personal decision but I think you know people need to arm themselves with the right information and then go from there and and so I would definitely urge people to listen to this you know and if they're not convinced you know consult veritable sources uh speak to their their communities and and clinicians within that Community you know everybody has a pharmacist you can always pop in there have a 10-minute conversation if people need more confidence because the the dangers of the of Contracting you know the Corona virus uh there um and and I would like to urge people to definitely explore the possibility of vaccination um thank you very much Abby I think that's really helpful to share that because um I know people talk about and I don't know anyone who's ever had Co and all of this thing thing around vaccination is a mess but when you work in the on the front line or you know people who work on the front line you have stories to tell which um our colleagues have shared some of that and Abby's told his personal story for me I just want to emphasize the fact that access to the vaccine should not it's not a barrier there are various ways you can access the vaccine we are going right from those who haven't had a first dose all the way through to the fourth booster and so if people want to come forward we having had this and having kind of explored some of the signs and evidence behind it the offer is always there so from my point of view the ab's just said it's real and so people need to understand that and and the offer will always be there for them to come forward right thanks Logan I think from my perspective um as I mentioned before you I'm sure none of you want to see me this Christmas so get all your vaccines not just the covid vaccine because it'll keep you U safe and at home right yeah for Thank You Phillip I think from my perspective I'll put my equalities hat on and when I see the Gap it always breaks my heart because I'm one among you know I'm from ethnic minority background and it's a little bit of frustration little bit of anger uh and and uh equally a bit of competition as well why our uptake rate is not as white British why are we not looking after ourself uh why are we leaving it at the last moment to get illness so therefore I would say prioritize yourself prioritize your family prioritize your friends and go get your vaccination wow so thank you all so much Abby Priscilla Dr Logan pra thank you for joining us in this conversation and like we've you've all had if you want to give any gift this Christmas or this season then make it a gift of protection and I think uh we all know now that so easy to access the vaccines there's so much information genuine information on genuine platforms I probably we'll share we'll share um on the screen it'll be showing on the screen short that link that you can access um so that you can find out genuine information and how to also uh book yourself to get yourself vaccinated how to find your eligibility and all that but more importantly I'd like to encourage us members of our community um to really go out there and get yourself vaccinated and on top if you're also um eligible for the flu vaccine add that on top as well you know you're getting two for one you know so yes this is so important so important the conversation like you've all had here um we really need to protect our community if we want to thrive we need to look after our health if we want to thrive as a community and nobody's too young and nobody's too old so if if you're young and you're fit and energetic think of your older brother your father Your Grandparent and and the people that are ahead of you and think about protecting them so let's all take this effort and encourage one another to um take this vaccine seriously and not only just the covid um vaccine let's look after our health and ensure that any vaccine that's set out there to help protect us uh and give us that well-being we we go for it as much as we can possibly can so thank you all very much and thank you guys for watching um this special episode don't forget to subscribe and like and share and we love to hear your feedback if there's any point that we raise here that is not very clear uh for you just send us a note at the at the bottom of the screen send us your comment and let's hear from you we want this conversation to continue we want to be able to engage with yourselves and your communities so together we can Thrive so remember this Christmas make your gift a gift of protection thank you and goodbye