Carabao Cup exit, MGW England call up & Deadline Day looms

[Applause] hello everybody and welcome back to the gavi red podcast a Nottingham Forest podcast I'm Max say your host and as Forest unluckily exit the carabal cup on penalties to Newcastle we discussed the performance the positives to take because there was plenty of them and as deadline day looms tomorrow the latest transfers surrounding the city ground delighted to welcome first of all to the podcast former Forest Defender Michael man Mance good to see you thanks for your time how are you how you been keeping yeah well good thank you for having me on man appreciate it good stuff and and you were at Burton recently Michael you you you recently retired but um what was that like because you had quite a few injuries towards the end of your career I mean do you miss playing I do yeah it was tough um I I done my knee uh my miniscus uh flapped off the bone and I had an operation for that and coming back from that it just it it wasn't the same I had literally no power in my knee like in my leg to to jump or to to Sprint I lost so many yards of pace and to obviously chase after these young boys and not be able to get there is demotivating and it was it was it was time really to be honest yeah um no I can imagine also joining us is someone that hasn't played for Forest but he talks about Forest enough on the podcast is Mark Turner Mark good to have you with us again mate you okay yep good to see you Max good to see you Micha I'm actually sat here sympathizing with Michael because I spent all my time chasing around after young guys as well Michael trying to keep up with Max Hayes so we have that in common I feel you right let's get on with today and Mark we'll actually start with you um and and just your thoughts really on the game last night I mean Forest played well there was some standout performances which will get on to you know I think there was five six debutants as well just what was your general SS on the game Mark to start off with yeah General General assessment on the game was very pleasantly surprised I mean we knew there were going to be wholesale changes for the cup I don't know if we expected 10 changes but um given that these players won't ever played together you know as a team I think they jailed pretty quickly I mean obviously the first 18 18 19 seconds were a bit of a disaster but after that I think the team settled down nicely um start to connect really well I actually thought there was some standout performances as well I think there are definitely two or three players who have given new know something to think about for the next League game so yeah by and large You know despite the ultimate outcome I was pretty happy with uh with Forest tonight I agree I thought it was going to get a bit messy after those first 19 seconds I thought this could be a bit of a horror score but but but Forest did well and kind of held out well and then you know kind of moved in the right direction from there and I thought I thought we're really unlucky um you know and we'll get onto the penalties in a minute um Michael in terms of because I know you didn't kind of catch much of the game last night you you you caught the first half I mean Forest played Zack Abott a youngster he made his debut in central defense I mean must be quite difficult to come in against a premier league opposition like that in Newcastle but I guess that's what the cup can can give a manager a chance to to you know give players a debut and um and it and almost the cup is is utilized for that these days in football yeah definitely I think uh a lot of managers do tend to use it as a chance to give young players experience um playing first team football against tough opponents and testing themselves being able to test themselves but they wouldn't be getting the opportunity if they weren't good enough in the first place so the manager obviously believes in the player to be able to know that he can go in and put in a good performance and and be solid and and do well which is uh which is a massive positive for for young players as well because to get that experience of playing against top teams it's you're not going to get that playing at Youth Level don't get me wrong you do get some really good youth teams and stuff like that but playing men's football is is totally different yeah and I mean when you played in the carabal cup as well Michael because I it was probably called like The League Cup I don't know it's it's changed its name so many times hasn't it but when yeah but but but when you played in the cup I mean under managers what would often be the message if you know let's say that particularly when you were at Forest probably the carabal cup wasn't the aim promotion was the aim during the championship days so what's the message like from a manager going into a cup game um you still want to go in and do well you want to go on a cup a cup run um so it's not it's don't get me wrong it's it's never to go in to just to play the game and if you lose you lose and if you win you win it's it's not like that you you want to win every game that you play um and the message is normally to obviously go and win and let's go on a a cup run that that that is normally the message yeah um Mark I mean in terms of that that first half performance yesterday I thought jot Silva played you know excellent first half until he got his goal obviously in the second which was deserved but there was some real standout standout players for forest and you know despite that that not being the strongest team really you know was wasn't even near the strongest team for Forest there was positives to take from that because Newcastle fielded a a really strong team you could tell that they they wanton a serious run in this competition uh yeah there were as I said earlier there were some great standout performances as Michael was talking you know I always feel bad for the young players or the clearly fringed players when you go out of the cup early doors as we did last night I always feel that those players feel that more because those are their opportunities to get to game minutes right right and to put themselves in the spotlight for the manager and give them give him something to think about so players like looking at us starting line up here you know Miguel you mentioned Abbott previously om badell as well you know great players but very much on the fringes of things as far as League competition is concerned so those are the players I really feel for be interested to get Michael's take actually no Michael was pretty much always a starter so he probably can't even speak to that Dynamic but maybe as well well maybe teammates I mean do you feel like when you get back into the dressing room afterward you've got players like you know in this in the case of last night you know Callum H in the doori and Anderson and whatnot who are gonna be like oh wow that kind of sucked but you know Le League match to look forward to and then you've got the other half of the dressing room going ah man you there gives him a chance to get extra minutes and show the manager what I can do I definitely think it is a factor but not in terms of that the the older players or the more senior players are not bothered it's just that games come so thick and fast that you can't you can't dwell on a loss you need to think all right well what's our next game now we need to go in we need to go into that we need to win that next game so obviously yeah the younger boys will probably be a bit more bummed out because they probably know that they're not going to be playing in that next game and that was an opportunity for them to obviously go into another game and play another game in front of a massive crowd in front of the fans and stuff so yeah I I don't think that they're that they're yeah not that they're not bothered but they they they are bothered but um yeah it's there's too many games to to worry about the last game you got to move on to the next one yeah yeah that's fair enough and then Max to your question um there were three players that really stood out to me last night I thought they were good performances all over the field but I was particularly impressed with you mentioned jota uh I thought morera as well was fantastic man of the match for me though was Moreno um I I love watching him like I would absolutely love to see him in and about uh you know the first team for the next League match um so yeah really surprising and I think really encouraging as well when you look at the depth of our of our Squad I don't think many of Us's fans had much of a sense of okay are these players really improving us or these players sort of you know for a season from now or a couple of seasons from now are they inevitably going to be inevitably going to be shipped off to Lim cost at some point during this season maybe never to return but based on what we saw last night very encouraging yeah uh it did crack me up actually I saw a comment on social media Mark that said jot Silva looks like a player that really doesn't want to spend six months in Greece at olympi Aros so portug he was fighting for his place and and and boy Didi and it it was a great goal yeah it was a great goal let's let's touch on Mareno actually Mark um and just kind of get your thoughts on on how he played last night not only do I think his his hair is absolutely brilliant and how he keeps that in place but also his his his pace and his just his technical ability I just thought he brought to the game and again he slotted in to the side instantly you didn't ever think he looked out of place and and that's a real positive for Forest I mean do you think he could start against wolves on Saturday I think he's capable of doing that I don't know if he will but then new no surprise in the last match by bringing Anderson into the starting lineup and also I thought Anderson was great last night as well um he looked really comfortable and confident on the ball I wonder if part of that is a product playing against his old team if he was playing with a bit more kind of swagger like I'm going to show you you know don't forget about you know what what I did at Newcastle um so uh but no I think Moreno absolutely could could slot into the team immediately whether he will um I mean I'm not sure but but I suspect there's still going to be some movement in the transfer market before um the door the window not sure what to refer to it as till it closes on Friday um and so don't be surprised if some of these players that showed up and showed off last night don't feature more prominently in the league campaign moving forwards because their opportunity might present itself if there is still some movement to be had in that transfer market yeah we shall see um you mentioned transfer market there mark and and Michael Forest have have been busy this summer it's been a you know a good Off the- Pitch recruitment people would argue what have you made to Forest really off the pitch in terms of the transfers they've brought in because um you know Elliot Anderson as Mark mentions there there's jot Silva obviously Raymond Sosa who who who started it seems like the recruitment's been working in the right direction really uh yeah definitely um they've had the the season in in the Prem uh last season it was tough for them um but with the recruitment that they've got in place and with the people that they're bringing in they're only strengthen in the squad um I like I said I saw the the first half of of last night and the players that were playing looked comfortable they looked they looked good everyone um technically was very very good um so I think it's I think it's going to be a positive season for Forest this season yeah and I mean what do you think the almost realistic aim is because the Premier League is such a a tough league and and it's forest's third season in it and many people would just say you know survival again what do you think is you know almost a realistic aim for Forest this season Michael I think you got get yeah of course you want to survive in in in the Prem but I think you got to kind of get that out of your head because you you want you want to I I think mid-table is what they should be trying to to aim for cuz the Prem is tough It's tough and you can see there's there's not one bad team in the Premiership um so every game is going to be a tough game but I think realistically with the squad that they've got they should be aiming for mid-table and then just carry on trying to build every season on getting better and getting finishing higher yeah um Mark let's go back a little bit to the game and we've kind of got a touch on him more because he obviously did score the goal that that took it to penalties J I just thought he was everything you want from a from a a player that's making their debut right energetic hungry and I I don't know about you but but I'd be tempted to start him on Saturday yeah I would too uh I thought it was kind of interesting I was waiting to see if either alanga or Callum Hudson Ador would come off the bench and um if I had made an appearance You Know Who whoo Nuno would lean towards um because I thought it might give us some Clues as to who might look to bench uh in order to accommodate jotter I think so good that that his performance was so good I I I think Luna must have been considering that considering this next match you're right Max he looked like a player out there with something prove um High you know he's a flare player but still we saw high levels of you know what kind of reminded me of a little bit obviously he's a different type of player but a little bit of Morgan Gibbs white you know Morgan Gibbs white kind of gets put in this category of flare you know flare player but if you watch what he contributes to to Forest in any given game you know he's box to box he's up and down he's getting tackles in um you know he's being more than a 10 and I thought we saw that from J last night as well yes he did everything that his role you know his position on the field would require of him and he scored a worldy but he was really putting in a shift as well and giving Nuno again I keep saying this but something to think about Max before you transition off i' got to ask Michael here because to have a professional Defender defensive midfielder on the Pod it's a rare occurrence usually it's just you and I talking about our successes and six aside so um I'm GNA ask Michael 19 seconds into the game and Forest concede okay you've been a central Defender you play pretty much anywhere across the back you play defensive midfielder as well so you're used to you know that the opening whistle going and then kind of getting ready and and making sure nothing stupid happens early doors what was your take on that first 19 seconds I mean have you been in those situations where something crazy like that has happened early on so what's your take on how it went down like why did that happen and then what's the mindset if that does happen because you're already basically starting you know a goal down and you kind of giving yourself a mountain de climb yeah um yeah I've been in that situation many times oh sorry ppsd now I have it's um it's tough because when you concede so early you feel like your game plan's kind of not gone out the window but then you just need to get everyone focused and concentrated um as quickly as possible because after conceding the goal teams tend to lose concentration so you could go on and concede another one after a short while so um no it's a it's a tough spot to be in uh you've just got to stick to your game plan maybe I don't know sometimes in a lot of teams that I played in if we were to ever concede we just tightened everything up everyone got back into their positions tightened everything up if we had to go long for a five minutes just to get back into the game and then obviously slow the game down get your your passes on the ball um you have to you have totime you have to sometimes do it it's it's happened and I've been on the opposite end when we've scored early doors and then I don't know it's it's it's a tough one mentally because in your mind your game plan is we're going into this game we're staying solid and then 19 seconds in you you can see the goal so yeah is it is a bit of a crushing blow but yeah like I said you've got to you got to get focused up real quick and um just in your mind just tell yourself it's still nil nil and then push on from there and hopefully try and get a goal back as early as possible yeah and I was I was just about to say actually that I thought I thought foris dealt with that goal brilliantly and I just thought it showed that that back four did did really well almost to recover from that because obviously it must be be tough mentally to deal with that quite early on um funny enough Mark just as we're recording the podcast um Morgan Gibbs White's been called up to the England squad uh it's just literally just been announced now just my phone so he's the first Boris player to get an England call up uh since Stuart Pace in 1997 and he'll be an England squad if Lee carsley um who's the intering manager wants him uh England squad to face the Republic of Ireland and Finland so big news coming out of forest it's awesome it's funny actually I saw I was watching an interview Lee Carley yesterday and they were showing you know back what do you call it Max b-roll what what do you call it b-roll b-roll there go all right playing in the background and it was from when they won the it was the World Cup right yeah okay and there was and the segment they took it was him and Morgan Gibbs White having a little bit of banter and laughing and joking as they went to go get the trophy and all of a sudden yeah the snaps just started firing I'm like I wonder if I wonder if that relationship will pay off I wonder if we're going to see mg der in the England team anytime here soon so that is fantastic news congratulations and well deserved very well deserved definitely um Michael what do you make of Morgan as a player from when you've seen him because he gets a lot of Praise of course from from from forest fans but you know he just controls the Midfield so well and Forest fans all almost feel like he's he's one of our own because you know he just loves the club and and you can really tell he wants to play for Forest I think Mark K the nail on the head really by how he described him I think um yeah he gives everything that he needs to give in his job in his role but he's he works so hard he is box to boox um very comfortable on the ball and a great passer of the ball as well so no I think I I think he's great I think he definitely been one of forest's best players yeah for sure for sure um right let's look at maybe some other uh a few negatives potentially from last night and don't want to dwell on the game too much but more talk about the players and and and the future of those players got to mention Taio aany of course missing that penalty last night over the bar and and just the confidence for him being quite low at the moment and Mark before I come to you Michael I just wonder from a player's point of view what it's like you know not just missing a penalty but before this Tai's had injuries you know he's not featured much um he struggled he's had some family ISS off the pitch as well even though you are a professional those things surely just must affect you going into to play football uh yes they do yeah things off the pitch do affect you but sometimes in a I I find with a lot of players that I've played with as well and myself that playing football is almost like your remedy for all that kind of stuff and your medicine CU it's you don't think about anything but what your job is on the pitch that night and then you deal with whatever's going on in your life after your game um for me personally yeah it can it it can affect you on the pitch don't get me wrong but um I always feel like football always helped me if I was going through something to kind of not think about that thing that that's going on in my life so um yeah it's it's a tough one it depends on I don't know how strong he is mentally and um how how he deals with things yeah and and Mark I suppose if you just want to come in there and and and talk about get talk about Taio and and and just it's disappointing to see because when you look back to especially when Taio first signed and then even last season before he got injured there was just those glimpses of of just how you know he was worth that price tag that that Forest paid for him and he was the quickest player in the Bundesliga when he won that stat and and he just had that that almost you know because he does bring that sense of it's quite difficult to play against Taio for for other players and and for him to you know um get in those positions and and he scored so many goals for Forest it's just disappointed to see the way it's turning out with him at the minute yeah it really is I mean you cited all of the things that could be impacting him Michael's perspective is really interesting there um and again I've only played at a semi-pro level so I don't have the experience Michael does in any way shape or form but I I would concur with him like in that when I've been in situations like that the football has been the relief like it's been take you out of that situation and just let you focus on this thing you love and just be holy in it um but everyone's different and I think as fans that's something we have a tendency to forget you know this isn't a game of FIFA like these are real human beings we're talking about here and everybody sees the world a little differently everyone has different mentality um you know different value system different you know some folks are very emotional others much less so we don't know what Tai is going through or dealing with physically and mentally but to your point Max it is sad really sad to see this fall from grace it was my favorite players these last couple of years because he was just kind of the definition of chaos um you know I'm quite sure what you're going to get for him he's big he's strong I mean Defenders he clearly troubled Defenders we saw what he did to CBA last season who was was arguably the best Central defender in the Premier League right now um so it is sad so I'd love to see him get back to his chaotic best whether it's going to happen I don't know you know but this is a player that you know Chelsea was sniffing around last season um being said Chelsea ising around yeah I think I think Chelsea are on the phone for Michael again I think they're GNA try and bring him [Laughter] home it's never too late Michael it's never too [Music] late wish him all the I will say though Max and you and I were like send each other messages last night during the game the minute he I saw him walking up to the spot for that fifth kick I'm like no why and you shouldn't be thinking that about a number nine you should be like where is he we want him to take the definitive kick and as I saw him walk up I was just oh no man this is not good um so it didn't surprise me in one bit when he blow and I blasted Over the Bar as sad as I was to see it um yeah so hopefully he bounces back yeah and and and Michael I suppose when you've watched Forest as well you know Taio was kind of the number one Striker but then particularly last season when he obviously spent um a long time on the sidelines you know it became Chris Wood as the number W and he scored was 10 goals now for Forest last season and he'll no doubt probably score a similar amount again but I just wonder from your point of view whether you think relying on Chris Wood relying on one Striker you know is good enough for Forest this season if they really want to push on I mean deadline day obviously is tomorrow so from your perspective I mean do you think Forest need to go out there and get another Striker um probably yeah if obviously if you you want to if you want if you want to do well you need backups a bit you need like Mark was saying as well you need people to be confident as well so if you do have another what if wood gets injured and tyo is injured as well so do you know what I mean so you do need backups but then you do it's hard for a manager because how do you keep everyone happy how do you keep everyone confident you got you you do have to I don't know split the game time a little bit especially for Strikers Strikers are different breed they all play they want to score goals um that's where that's their bread and butter that's where they get their Confidence from so um now it's it's tough but yeah they they probably they probably should yeah get another St ask Michael very quickly so Michael you've been in the game a long time and so it just occurred to me that you your career probably bridged that shift between how it used to be which was you had to start in 11 they pretty much rocked out every single game the manager maybe made one or two Chang generally they were predicated on performances or maybe someone being injured to move into this position now where it's recognized this is a squad game right and people can get moved around and and you know tactically it can shift from match to match and you can see three or four players being kind of Switched in and out um obviously you know in the case of Forest for instance you have players like Morgan Gibs white who are going to play pretty much every game but everyone else is it's you know it's interchangeable so as player mentality changed over that time do you think players are comfortable with being part of a squad now or do you feel there are still players there who are like starting 11 or nothing like I'm not happy if I'm not playing end of um it's a hard question to be honest um to be honest I think everyone wants to play no one wants to be sat on the bench um don't get me wrong when I when I was young and I was at Chelsea I was I was a squad player I was on the bench for majority of the games and I'd maybe come on here and there met might start a game or two but I knew that was my role at the time cuz I was young and I knew the players that were playing were unbelievable most of them were captains of their country so um I accepted I accepted my role I knew what my role was but um yeah if you're buying I don't know if you're buying players that are playing regularly at the club that they're at and scoring goals and they're confident and then they come to another club and then you sat on the bench you're going to be asking questions like why why am I not playing you want to every player wants to play every single game to be honest yeah and I'm assuming you're asking those questions as well during contract negotiations right because yeah you're talking about length of contract and how much you're going to get paid and bonuses and all that lck but surely you're also asking what do you see my role here like am I are you looking for a number one Striker do you want me to come in and just kind of bolster the options you know I'm sure you're asking those questions too right which is sort of difficult because if the manager is saying well yeah we just kind of want you to come here to kind of help you know help out and give us option yeah that's not very attract man a manager is never going to say that he's never going to say that he's going to he's probably going to throw a fishing hook out there and say yeah you're my number one you're definitely starting get you there and then you're on the bench that's that's probably how it would happen but yes good it's not happening like that I tell you that right now that's how Mark's got me on this podcast every every Mark every episode you be a reg when I'm not here yeah You' got actually you did let me take the mic when you were yeah true yeah yeah um right let's um let's talk a little bit mans just about your Forest career because obviously Stuart Pace brought you in you went through quite a bit of turbulent times you know a few managers you were uh I think your if I'm right your last manager was under Mark wton um for Forest before you left and then obviously you were under fers a bit at times and all kind of the ownership difficulties I just wonder what kind of your stand out really memories from forest were uh you know mans because I think the fans are quick sometimes to forget that you know yes the you know Forest didn't get promoted you know until a few years ago but but during those times when you were there at the club that they were you know there were some difficult moments for the players to go out and play on the pitch given what was going on off the pitch in a way yeah definitely um I've always said that was the thing that was the toughest cuz there was no real stability at the club and managers were just literally it was like a rolling door like there was new manager coming in all the time so I definitely felt like that has an effect on the players it was um it was definitely tough because you're always having to reprove yourself to the new manager and to obviously you should be proving yourself every single day but then obviously someone else comes in with different way of playing and you've got to change the whole way that your team's I don't know train the whole pre preseason if a manager gets sacked halfway during during the season um it's sort it is tough but um no I I had some great memories at at Forest um especially when I first when St Pi first bought me there and we got off to a flyer um when I think I well not losing our first nine games winning Mo the majority of them but then uh injuries hit like some big players and it killed us a little bit um not not to say that the players that came in weren't good enough but that's where depth in the squad is obviously very important to if you lose a big player like we lost Brit as songa who got a lot of our goals to not replace him with someone who could potentially fill that void is is tough um but no great memories beating Arsenal as well with Eric leehigh scoring running off like a madman was a good one as well yeah no yeah I can I can can remember that when yeah cuz Eric Le and ended up having the dog didn't he he he and yeah yeah that was it well remembered gun of the uh gun of the dog um right just quickly before we go um and I supp you you can't skip mate come on seriously you can't skip over I got to watch this fell in the garabaldi I got to chip in I got a chip go on go on don't embarrass mate but you were quality you really were I mean not like some of those cloggers you're out there with like Foxy and Hobs I mean you are proper proper quality seriously a bit har Mark very cultured very comforable on the ball yeah very comfortable on the ball I mean you're a pleasure to watch you really were so um I appreciate that Mark thank you mate absolutely now when you were in the team Joe warl was coming through the team around about that time right wasn't he okay so obviously just Departed the forest I've gotta ask you very quickly what were your impressions of Joe as a as a young pro um no he was a great young pro to be honest he was a good lad as well um obviously as a young lad you're not really very loud around I don't know like the first team players but um no he was always a good lad and you could always see that he'd have the potential to go on and do well um so no yeah nothing nothing bad bad to say about him um yeah he was a great kid yeah good stuff he's G on to do really well yeah yeah he has indeed he has cool right I think that does US nicely because I know uh mans thanks for taking the time out of your your day we appreciate it and hopefully hopefully get you on soon when when Forest I don't know when Forest finish in the Champions League places at the end of this season um and then yeah and then Chelsea will be coming calling for you mans I'm telling you now it's going to happen right um good stuff uh mark thank you as well if you did enjoy this episode of gavon red give us a like share and subscribe on YouTube follow us across Spotify and apple podcasts from two great pros and Mark we'll see you next time bye-bye you [Applause] [Music]