Michel Barnier: Former EU negotiator on Brexit, immigration & the French presidency - BBC Newsnight

my answer can be yes because we we end the negotiation it was longer than expected certainly we were surprised by the fact that teresa may didn't reach an agreement on his her own majority i think that the the negotiation was crying because and we're correct because we end the negotiation in on the deal and it was uh clearly our goal to to to avoid the cliffhanger the may proposal was your preferred route you write that you lamented many obstacles that were put in her path and i wonder if you regret not making life easier for her to get that deal passed it was her duty a responsibility to get the support of the the house of commons not our responsibility so we we reach an agreement with teresa and she agreed with this agreement you recognize in your diaries at the very beginning that europe is perhaps out of touch with legitimate concerns of people places where the majority voted brexit brexit voters who felt that they had been mistreated by eu bureaucrats by grey politicians with little accountability in their lives what would you say to them no i think i i can't say to them and exactly to the same people in in france or in belgium and in deadlines that we have to to understand and to listen and to and to answer to these people when you try to understand the reason of the the brexit the most important for me has been and still is the social anger the the popular feeling of the poorest region in the uk because this social anger and this popular feeling which is not the populism exactly the same in france so we have to understand we have to listen we have to answer but the answers are not all in brussels part of the answer are in london or in paris or in in madrid you're quite damning about some of the politicians leading the brexit crusade you flatter um on occasion but you also say dominic rob is decidedly not a man of great subtlety jeremy hunt you say rather odd david frost spoke arrogantly david davis amongst others vulnerable to ideology and nostalgia did you respect any of the ones that you were negotiating with well i expressed my feeling about one or several members of the british team and i'm sure they did the same in the british press if i look clearly all the comments but it's important to be to be honest and to be clear about our ourselves dominic cummings called you a lazy emotional bullshitter what did you make of that nothing there's no no i have no comment about the cummings i never met mr cummings for perhaps one time in the 10th downing street with with johnson and i don't i never speak with him so so i i'm not sure he he he knew or he knows clearly what happened in the negotiations also so it's there is no importance for me of the coming comments about me you don't think he knew what was going on no no no importance so why would he say lazy or emotional i don't know brexiteers say now it's already paid dividends um in terms of the vaccine rollout in terms of the global defense alliance orcas in terms of the migrant crossing rules or the visa numbers that it's allowed the uk to decide on what would you respond to that i always wish the best for the uk despite the brexit i think simply that being alone in the global where the world where we are this world around us is dangerous and stable fragile i think everything could be easier or less difficult if we are together but i guess they would say clearly we're not alone the uk is not alone they've just made a massive global defense pact with australia and america and they've shut the french out of that we will see if this alliance or contract is massive as you say one point of this issue and this contract which has been cancelled without any kind of pre discussion between between us i think that if you look at the future not only the present that is important between allies to have trust and to have confidence and it is my point on this contract with australia i think first of all that an alliance can it be an allegiance and alliance needs trust and confidence and clearly in that case we will see what could happen between france and uk between eu and uk i think it's not a good it's not the good news it's a bad news that the the trust and the confidence has been federalized by the attitude of the uk and the us uh president macron looked very offended by this deal do you think he overreacted no i think the reaction of the french president was correct olaf schultz who may yet become germany's next chancellor has blamed the trucking crisis that we're seeing here now the hgv uh drivers on the british decision to leave the eu and free movement our transport uh secretary grant shaps has said actually brexit makes us more nimble we can we can issue visas when we want what do you think once again i wish the best for the uk i think it was a incredible decision to leave the single market to end the freedom of movement it is a british choice i'm too late now to come back in the past our main asset is single market and a part a key part of single market is the freedom movement so so you will see what could happen in uk but the uk has to face the consequences and to assume the consequence of the brexit nobody else let's look at northern ireland then you heard jeffrey donaldson threatening to pull out of power sharing if the protocol wasn't overturned for the sake of peace shouldn't the protocol go but at stake in ireland is not about trade or food or goods it's about peace and this this clear danger for the peace in ireland if in case of any trouble for the good friday belfast agreement we we take a lot of time to to to work the british government with teresa may one time two times three times we found a solution with teresa may and finally we found an agreement with boyd johnson not against him not without him but with him and once again every word every sentence was negotiated they understood exactly what the protocol meant you're sure about that they are serious people so there is no surprise there was no surprise but you recognize that it's not working the protocol is not working we need to to respect the signature there is no surprise but if jeffrey donaldson says it's the end of power sharing if that's not going to create peace does the eu not have to be more flexible right we are ready as the vice president of the commission marseilles said several times including a few days ago we are ready to find practical and operational solution in the framework of the protocol not to for renegotiating the protocol because this protocol has been negotiating by serious people on both sides very serious people and mr uh brother johnson is a serious prime minister so we negotiate with his team with himself he knew exactly what he signed i think it cannot be possible to drop this protocol because it's the only way to find a solution for all the problems created by the brexit what what creates problems in islands brexit nothing else let's talk about um your own views um last month you called for france to be allowed a referendum on immigration next september and you suggested that france couldn't control its immigration without being permanently threatened at the level of the ecj you said france must regain its legal sovereignty for some key and specific issue of immigration only which are what so you're talking about free movement no you're talking about immigration from outside the eu we have to avoid any kind of misunderstanding the the free movement of people inside euro is not at stake i want to protect and to maintain the free movement of people inside between the 27 member states what is at stake for me is a way for my country or for the germans and for the others to be able to take some national decisions on very specific issue for the migration coming from a third country from outside so why do you think that the ecj is controlling what you want to do because you can control your economic migration already there is some points where we need to to be free to take national decisions and we have nothing really nothing or no no the right word in the constitution in france about migration so we have to to take our decision by own cell but it is not linked to the brits it's not linked to the to the the brexit nigel farage has called you the biggest hypocrite ever born farage launched his campaign for the brexit against the freedom of movement i'm not speaking of freedom of movement inside europe i'm speaking just to have the legal tool to control in a better way the migration coming from outside is brexit a success from the european perspective brexit is lose-lose the brexit is losers for both sides this is my answer can we refined our relations and our good will and work together i think that we need if we put into perspective our common interest in the next few years and the next years we have to be very careful about the level of trust and confidence between us because we will need to work together and i hope despite what happened with australia this contract what happened with the fisher issue what happened in ireland if everybody in both sides tried to put into perspective our common interest we will need to work together between the uk and the eu and within the uk and france dominic cummings reflected that no one on earth knows whether brexit will turn out to be a good thing for britain did that surprise you is he right it seems to be a little bit late for him to say such a sentence it's late well too late because brexit is there the brexit is done do you think britain can flourish outside the eu or do you believe that the uk will ultimately rejoin no it will be for the british people to decide that for me the door is still open in any case and i wish the best for the uk in any case thank you very much