Ep 177 - Trap, Disney streaming price hikes, and Horizon Chapter 2 at Venice Film Festival

[Music] broadcasting live from the lady Raven cover of let's get together this is Pop Culture reference your One-Stop reference for all things pop culture I'm one of your hosts Sheamus Connelly and I'm your other host Garrett Str and today for our main segment we are going to be jumping into M9 shyamalan's brand new thriller trap that is going to be a very interesting a very interesting conversation I think we haven't had a chance to really get down to the business talking about that together yet but uh let's maybe jump into the news before we get over there well we're starting off strong with a Paramount panic I don't remember if that's one of the ones I do that but you I don't remember either if I'm it's been a while it's been a while since we've had a Paramount Panic Paramount's been a little quieter yeah well except for the skyhan merger which we were initially hesitantly not I wouldn't say positive about but like cautiously optimistic but our our fears have come to pass that indeed Paramount Global will be cutting 15% of its us Workforce over the next few weeks that's about 2,000 employees in the wake of the sky dance merger so really disheartening something we knew was probably going to happen with this merger but I that doesn't make it any easier to swallow yeah I I remember we were we were waxing about like the best case scenario but this this as much as it sucks it is not necessarily the most surprising thing that we kind of saw coming uh from this merger so that is that's not great there's more layoffs than ever it feels like in in more than one realm of course but uh this one I I hope this is maybe going to be a a stop on that the layoffs for Paramount and and that merger specifically for at least a little while the thing I'll just tell myself is that hopefully this is lot fewer people lose their jobs than if another bidder like Sony had been able to get their mids on it who has like Sky Dan the infrastructure that Paramount has existing is supplemental to a lot of what sky Dan has set up presumably as opposed to another full Studio like Sony uh there's going to be a lot more redundancy there so I wouldn't say Silver Lining it's still a lot of people losing their jobs but it's not the worst case scenario there there's there's something to hold on to there until next next week's Paramount panic when we have to wrestle with this again and be like well we jinxed it but I mean for now it's it's it is what it is unfortunately and speaking of layoffs here comes uh Disney danger I know what this sounds like God yeah that's I've been thinking about a lot of krennic these days and this really feels like a hitting the emergency Bell right here krennic I mean krennic might as well be running the Walt Disney Corporation at this point because Disney is in addition to the massive layoffs that we've been covering at Disney for the last couple of years uh laying off an additional 140 staff members from their television Department this in tandem with the announcement that surprise surprise folks you thought after the Disney plus Max Hulu bundle announcement last week uh they might be done with streaming price hikes for a while uh no no Sur Disney plus is increasing $2 per tier so that's going from $799 to 9.99 a month for the ad supported tier and 13.99 to 15.99 a month for no ads Hulu will also be experiencing a similar increase with $9.99 for the ad Port of tier and $18.99 for no ads on Hulu blow that's insane and I like Hulu a lot we talk about how Hulu is kind of a sleeper when you get to the to the stuff that they kind of have locked down now under Disney but man that's an insane price hike and and they've been very clear that the bundles the price hikes the layoffs they they're not even necessarily trying to hide anything they're just like this is this is for our bottom line we are trying to hit a number and it's they've been very open about that as they've been making these decisions and I know that they've just been pretty much reiterating those Sentiments of just like this is so that we can hit our dollar amount uh we're scaling whatever we need to to make sure that we can hit our goals and that that just really sucks I don't want to be strong armed into a bundle that is going to inevitably get price hiked as well but there's no way in hell that I'm paying $9 a month for Hulu alone that's insane and d23 is this weekend so can't wait to hear about all of the oh my God different ways that they're going to nickel and dime theme park attendees while also laying off staff members left and right so yeah I feel like every every d23 it seems like it coincides with some whack news on their end and I wonder if that on purpose but you know it couldn't possibly be Robert Downey Jr doct Doom what everybody foaming at the mouth just like stepping on the people that are losing their jobs they don't care Star Wars Goonies trailer here it comes God ah I would anyway tune in next week when we talk about the d23 coverage I I was about to be like hey you you don't slander The Goonies in my presence but man I don't know about I don't know about that one over there and our last bit of solace in in this Barren Wasteland of a News segment this cold harsh unforgiving Frontier of Hollywood in the New Age the very highly anticipated on this podcast and nowhere else maybe and nowhere else follow up to Horizon America Saga chapter 1 athl titled Horizon American Saga chapter 2 will be having its World premiere at the Venice Film Festival on September 7th so we can hope that we might actually get a horizon part two release by the end of the year or at least you know in the coming months so I'm feeling a little bit more optimistic about our Prospect we'll we'll see how the reception is and oh I should not in an unprecedented move they will be playing chapter one also with the festival earlier in the day I that's a piece of information that I thought was is really that where I I think that maybe some of the the middling reviews of chapter one were because there the anticipation for you know how much it was set up all pretty much all set up in that first chapter now we're going to kind of get that companion piece that cner has been saying is necessary for a film like this and I know he is very vocal about how important this Venice screening is to him and how the programmers of the festival who were specifically playing that first chapter beforehand that he he was very happy he was saluting the idea that at least some people have that uh the the precious view of what two tandem pieces like that can be together so maybe that'll maybe that'll do it for us I I am optimistic uh considering the premiere of chapter 1 got like a 10-minute Standing Ovation uh when it came out so I I'm hoping that this really gets the the buzz going again me too can't wait to get back into the world of Horizon and and and see where all those characters are are going to end up at the end of chapter 2 we're we're buying our tickets to Italy right now we're going to we're we're going I would that would be actually maybe a dream if we didn't go for the fast X from here if we didn't go for the if we didn't go for the fast X from if we didn't go for the M imposs part one for here it's got to be the most American movie of all time it's got to be but Sheamus what do you say we we we have our tickets our wristbands ready as we go in to trap ah let's do it for today's main segment we are talking about M9 shyamalan's brand new thriller trap what I we we saw this separately Garrett we we had a little we had a little scheduling conflict so I really I don't know where your head is at with this movie what what did you think what as somebody that I I know you're not like you don't have Mo a lot of Shyamalan projects under your belt you have some key ones of course but this is this is a newer one than you're used to I think I have a respect for shaam Milan I think that he has taken a lot of undeserved ir over the years even though I'm not I wouldn't call myself like a huge fan of his films generally I like the ones that I like I don't like the ones I don't like but when it comes to trap I think that this is something that I've been anticipating for months and I try to make sure that I'm that I'm dancing around anything that could potentially be a spoiler but while I think that there is a direction that this movie eventually goes in that I I didn't love and I think that the thing that was promised in the trailer was a lot stronger than the thing that the movie eventually turns into with concert films on the mind uh in the immortal words of Connor for real me likey that Sheamus I I you know I don't necessar I don't disagree with you I think that everything that was set up in the trailer was what I was expecting maybe a little more of throughout I thought it was going to be a little bit more now I to am dancing around you Agent 47 yeah I you know I yeah I don't know I I I really really liked Josh hartnett's performance I thought he did incredible in this considering that there m shamalan isn't necessarily known for his incredible scripts or anything but I think that har brought a lot of stuff to that role himself you were say like I I even like I like the Shyamalan ones that I like and I even like the ones that I don't like which is like a good handful of M9 shamalan films that I've actually gotten to see but I just I can't I can't put the I can't put the shaky pop seal of approval on trap I don't think I I was once we were in the second half of the movie and it was going in a direction that I I didn't love but I had an idea in my head of like oh well of they're going to they're going to wrap it back around to these very obvious things that they've been setting up that I think would make sense and then they don't necessarily do a single one of those things that they set up then I then I kind of left the theater fairly disappointed with what I thought could have been written into a really solid Thriller overall even in the you know in the M catalog it would have been it would have been higher up there for me had the story followed through on those things that I'm have been thinking about all week basically I mostly agree with what you said I think it is sounding like I am softer on this than you are like I think that I'm more willing to go with the second half a little bit I still don't think it's particularly satisfying and it is itely shifted for me from a I anticipated coming out of this movie and being like Oh yeah people should see this in the theater I don't really think people should see this in the theater I think you can wait for it to be on streaming and you'll be fine I think this is a phenomenal streaming movie I think that I would have been fine sitting on my couch hitting this one on day one but the the size of it all the the concert of it all it did feel like a good energy on a big screen with big loudspeakers I agree that was that was nice especially sha Milan and he's talked about this a lot in interviews wanted to be very intentional about the way that he shot the concert and he wanted to shoot it like a like you would shoot a concert to be impressive to be immersive and I think he does a good job with that you and I were talking a little bit before the show about how I maybe expected lady Raven and we can't get into her too much I don't think right now but the pop star character I expected her to be a little bit more eccentric and that to lean into a little bit more of the spectacle promised in the earlier parts of the movie and unfortunately I don't really think that she met my expectations as like an eccentric pop star character though I will say I did think that despite it being M might shyamalan's very own daughter celika I think is how you say her name I believe so yeah I thought she did a good job I thought she was believable as a pop star she was Charming I would listen to maybe two of the songs that are featured in the movie I but also that's how I feel about real world pop music a lot of the times so I'm not even going to say that that's a huge knock on yeah the people who wrote that music which I I believe that selika Shyamalan actually does write a lot of her own music or at least the the lyrics is is what I'm I remember reading but I too thought that when they got down to her as a as a character in here I I actually expected her to be a lot more of just part of the framing device of the the Trap itself so the fact that we do get a little more personal with her is it I I I liked that I wish they had explored that a little more in depth like you're saying but I think a lot of The Eccentric stuff comes to like uh you like kid cdy being like a weirdo and showing up in thec he so funny in the big in the wig and Stu like very very funny and I I know this happens frequently on the show I feel like where kid Cy pops up in a movie for a couple scenes and we're like kid Cy great in this movie like regardless the quality of the movie I mean if I had a nickel for every time it would only be like three or four nickels but like what why is kid Cy just doing I mean I know for this one specifically I know kid Cy worked with cela's uh music that that I think he was uh part of a feature on one of her albums or they they work together in some capacity uh musically before this movie so there's a little bit more of a personal relationship there I know ight likes to to put his personal friends in things if he can so I I think that was still very fun for the very little time that he's actually on screen well makes me wish one that wild stallions were opening oh dude you could you imagine uh super smart kid cuy and long-haired mean kid Cy in the same movie knows that would be good but I also you you bring up you know we're talking about shaam Milan's proclivity for putting his friends in things and it's amazing to me how when Shyamalan does nepotism I am much more Charmed by it kind of yeah right well I mean we are definitely we're going to get into it a lot more in our reference later of course but he he self funds a lot of his stuff he likes to do it his way and it it it comes through almost every movie that he does he likes to have fun regardless if the subject matter is super dark and creepy and horror based he does like to make sure that people are at least smiling having a good time in the theater if he can help it and I think that he wants to share the thing that he loves doing with his daughters it's not just like okay JJ ARS is GNA make his daughter a pop star because he has the power to do that it feels much more organic and like hey come like guys come hang out with me on set and do the thing that I love doing and I it is very I don't know it just works for me it also helps that I actually enjoyed his daughter in this movie I did not see the Watchers uh which is her his one of his other daughters directed yes and I did not think looked particularly good and I didn't hear particularly good things about but you know what that's kind of the family business too isn't it that is 100% the family business I do know that during the filming of the Watchers is when Josh hartnet and ight got to kind of talking about their roles in Hollywood and them working together and I think that's a bigger reason why he was cast in as the lead of this movie and if that that I'm glad regardless I'm glad that that happened because again he's probably the best part of this whole movie certainly now I'm getting to the part of pre- spoilers that you're that we're going to fight now Sheamus oh all right let's let's go so I think that you were talk you have alluded to you haven't explicitly said this I don't want to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong you've alluded to a a frustration with the quality of the dialogue in this well I I actually I don't I'm not I don't want to lead you in that direction actually I want to I want to say that this is maybe some of the better Modern shamalan dialogue that I have run into and I I know he writes in a little bit of a goofy a little bit of an awkward way I think a lot of the times that the characters that are in his movies are strange a little awkward it feels even less unnatural sometimes if somebody says something weird and awkward and that that happens a bit in this movie and a lot of you know between teenage girls uh parents of teenage girls and serial killers I'm like yeah this is maybe how a lot of these people would be speaking in this scenario okay good I'm glad that you that you were on board mostly with that then because because especially in the first half I think a lot of the dialogue is actually kind of played for comedy oh yeah oh hell yeah especially I mean anytime harness interacting with a normal person then shifting back into like Sero killer mode that there's just a great pleasure in that and again Harnet I'm so glad he's back thank you Chris Nolan for getting him back on on people's screens um and if that's not the order in which things happened I apologize toite whoever else got got Josh har back on the like ET for Hollywood stars but he's doing a great job in this and he's having a lot of fun I think with the zany dialogue so all of that being said I think that the kind of paper thin caricatures puppets of the characters in this movie The funny setting the stilted dialogue the elevated genre premise all kind of builds into and this is something that's said also about another sh on film that happening a lot it feels like an intentional be movie and because of that there a lot of things that the movie does that I'm more lenient on because I think Shaman knows what movie he's making again I don't really love everything in the second half which we'll get into in spoilers but I he makes it pretty clear early on in the movie that he's not interested in trying to like break down the psyche of serial killers or anything like that they're real really the one topic that he's kind of probing with everything else as fun set decoration is fatherhood and what it means to be a good father and how much of you it takes to be a good father and we can talk more about those things when we get into spoilers but I think the fact that we're like in this big concert like the idea the idea of you have a serial killer a Suburban mom a popsar an FBI profiler and you know you have these Larger than Life characters that are all stuck in the same location I think that that's a really fun way to play with your scenario and a lot of the stuff he is playing to have fun with again especially in that first half I agree a very much about the the idea that all these characters forced to interact forced proximity in this this trap that we have set up here I think it's it's phenomenal just wish that there was a little bit more meaningful interaction between individuals I know we spend a lot of time with Josh haret alone Josh hartnett's Cooper character a very fun name for somebody who's cooped up in a trap I kept thinking about that whole time I had even thought about that that's cute Sheamus I haven't been able to stop thinking about that like 9 Shaman thinks he's so funny and he kind of is like I'm not gonna say he's not but putting Haley Mills in your movie that is called trap and you're trapping a parent Parent Trap if you will ah that that ight he has fun regardless of if I like this movie or not he does have fun I real quick before we get I assume cross the threshold here it's about to be Ariel Donahue plays Riley the daughter I thought that was maybe the best ight child acting I've ever seen in any of those and I've not seen the sixth since I that is my own M Night Shyamalan sin in this but I thought she did really really well and of course Jonathan Langdon as Jamie fun fun character I liked I lik that character a lot I again wanted a little bit more I wanted him to be a little bit more of a main character maybe but I I think that if out of anybody he probably got the the biggest slice of screen time with Josh hartnet that we got to get a little more characterization of an individual that is outside of the serial killer mindset and he just makes a big impression I think character obviously we were kind of predisposed I was excited when he showed up because you know he's in the trailer and I'm like I en jooy him in the trailer but I totally agree like he's he's great and I also second Ariel Donahue does a really good job but what do you think should we should we get into the nitty-gritty let's spoiler it up Sheamus okay um tell me if I missed it no twist in this movie I yeah it's I mean Shaman's kind kind of moved away from that In fairness I think not that he's moved away from it exclusively but I do think he is trying to step away from that I would argue and I'm not even saying it's a good twist and again I don't think the second half I I wish there were more things in the second half and we'll get into that in a second I think the twist is that his wife set him up I think that's like the that's the most of a Twist that this movie has however I don't think we get to know his wife enough that it really is impactful for us we don't even really hear him and his daughter discuss the mom that much before we meet her also this movie carrying in a proud tradition of surprise Allison pill I I think that's fun I like Alison Pill I'm happy when she shows up and stuff she was good snow piercer hail Caesar trying to think of other surprise Allison pill movies that's really the only two that are coming to mind I was going to say any of them that I've seen maybe cuz I I liked her in this but I don't know if I've ever seen her in anything before Oh Brother she's Kim from Scott Pilgrim wow dude I am a i wow that just that blew my mind that's crazy very unrecognizable if you ask me that's I mean I guess it's been like a hundred years since I've since that movie came out or whatever but that's no kidding have you seen goon the Hoy movie williiam scottt what how old is this wait what I thought she she was like a like 20 years old at Scot Pilgrim um I mean she was born in the 80s I would think so I mean goon is not I mean goon is like the same year as Scott Pilgrim I think wow okay that all right I need to maybe do a big Roundup on this is the real surprise Allison pill for me is that I'm just finding out about all this stuff talking about good in this Alison Pill specifically but when you have a movie that's called trap and this is my biggest issue overall with the film so much I know that a lot of the pleasure of this movie is watching him think his way out of the Trap smarter than you know getting the radio knowing what they're going to do before they do it figuring out a way backstage all the different things that he does throughout the movie to evade capture um until he's forced to play which I think that's a great moment when you realize that he's he's owning up to lady Raven but I think there's an expectation in a movie called trap that he will get actually trapped and not just like oh the SWAT guys are in his living room because he was stupid and he returned to his house yeah yeah and that's the big issue for me is I'm like I really wanted and I don't need the twist per se but I wanted the execution of we got him to be really good and it it just wasn't that way unfortunately it was not that way unfortunately and I I would say that while the the wife was the one who figured it out and and set things up that's surely a reveal but I think that once I was starting to lose steam along with the movie in the second half after we get out of the stadium after we leave the the titular trap we get out of that and we're moving on I I was like okay I'm not this is not going in the direction I love at least there will be some kind of shocking Revelation that I can fall back on and I think that her reveal that she was the one who did it was you know it was something sure but also I like you were saying they barely talk about the mom beforehand to the point where I assumed that he was a single dad for a lot of this movie and I was like oh I guess that this is more of like a it's a a hyper obsessive he's a serial killer who's of the organized variety and he wants to be a better parent than his mother was who we get little Snippets of throughout who abused him to the point of turning into this vicious serial killer in some way and then we we get to like the big dramatic like I poisoned your and I am the one who ripped the ticket and there there's like one under his breath Cooper goes like I must have messed up like there's something the or the profile Lor was like he made a mistake and now we've got him and I was like okay okay that's that is plausible I wasn't thinking about how he made the mistake the whole time it didn't really matter to meh at all and then she's like I went to the place that we haven't talked about all movie and I ripped a ticket that we didn't know about all movie and I did all this stuff I really wish that they had set up more of what hiso is earlier in the movie because you you have the conversation when they're down getting the T-shirt where he's talking to Jamie about like oh here's the Butcher and here's all the things he did have Jamie talk more about they say he's got places that the cops don't know about all around the city that he does that you know whatever like something like that or the the Reddit says that this is what he does or whatever yeah yeah I him like giving little Snippets of information from the the setup meeting that we know that they had before the Trap was sprung and all this stuff where you know he's giving a little bit more of that information in that in that really fun smiley way like he's delivering all this gruesome like oh do you have a weak stomach let me show you chopped up bodies on my phone with a big smile on my face I'm kind of a a true crime kind of guy you know he's like really casual about I feel like that would been the best way I think that that does I think that there is a funny like commentary on True Crime and that it's a pretty vapid commentary but like look at how real life murder has just been made for entertainment and there's a guy in the in the break room that's showing you horrible stuff I think that's fun and then turning that into in the second half and they okay I like the premise of him kidnapping lady Raven I also like that for a good like half hour the point of view shifts to her perspective and that she kind of becomes the protagonist of the movie 100% yeah I think that's really fun because there's already an inherent twist to what the premise of the movie is from jump that you're watching a serial killer movie from the perspective of the serial killer and that has its roots in things like I think about like blackmail by by Hitchcock or like dial for murder which Hitchcock is obviously a big influence on shamalan so then getting that Twisted again being like okay now we're back and like a pop Star has been kidnapped what tools does she have at her disposal to escape this Butcher and there's clearly the thought of like M9 and I would love to know if this was the Genesis for the whole pop star angle of if Taylor Swift told her fans to find one specific thing could they do it immediately and obviously that's true so I think that that's a really fun like the fact that she saves a man's life with the power of her fandom yeah the power of Instagram live what up fam I really have a crazy thing I need you to do chat which makes me wish that she had more of an arc in this movie and like if maybe she I do like that you know they show her her us who she is right off the bat with her assistant falling and her helping her up and all that that kind of stuff but if she had been maybe more engulfed in the fame of it and then realized the massive power she has again not that I think this movie is particularly interested in that kind of stuff and I don't expect it to be but in a second half that I find underwhelming those are things that maybe could have picked it up for me because basically after she gets out of the limo I kind of I'm kind of checked out of this movie well that's when it really starts to just absolutely crumble cuz you've you've got all this cuz I do expect that from that character almost when she does get the POV shift now she is the main character we are locked in the bathroom with her we are stealing Cooper's phone and he is reacting mostly appropriately for a most like a stranger basically snatching your phone and locking herself in a bathroom with or without a serial killer angle it's a whatever I wanted I wanted a little bit more I wanted to know why she was you know she was passionate about catching this guy she she's noticing all of this jewelry that that the daughter and wife are wearing that we're clearly supposed to infer is taken from the victims of the Butcher and how that never really gets more of a of a magnifying glass on it and you know maybe one of her fans or maybe somebody that she knows was murdered by The Butcher and that's why she is like a little bit more involved in this sting perhaps instead of just uh a straightup pawn in the concert that they're like don't worry you do your show we'll get him and then that's it now she is like the hero I wanted her to have a little bit more investment maybe she wants to you know get Riley away from her murderer father cuz she feels some kind of like you're my fan and I I feel for this horrifying situation that I'm now having to help finish up here I yeah I was hoping for a little bit more with her but then then we get like all right he Cooper's got a secret tunnel he's got a spare set of SWAT gear maybe or he stole it like a SC he kills the guy that's in the neighbor's yard and then changes into it that's all fine he he gets away fine I don't have any issues with his getaway or getting into the limo or anything like that except for maybe that the limo driver would know what he looks like but that's not enough of a real issue the movie to get into all of that business so the problem for me is once she gets out of the limo and therefore out of Jeopardy she also stops being the main character and it kind of switches to Alison Pill for the last 10 minutes and I wish that lady Raven if she's going to be postured for the whole second half of the movie as the like secondary protagonist she should play a more active role in Catching him than just you know making the police get here know ex hostage is what her role turns into like offscreen ex hostage and I yeah if she was maybe more directly involved with Allison pills uh plot to turn the house into the real trap or whatever the big thing is at the end and ah you know there if a million things that I I think could have made this movie better even the idea of like for half of the movie I genuinely thought that you know oh we're in Philadelphia uh we're in potentially the unbreakable verse maybe this guy is a is a Joker Style nons superpowered super villain that's just a murderer and then we're going to cut to the the beast at some point he keeps mentioning uh or at least I don't I don't know if it's a a ton of times but he mentions like stopping the monster enough times where I was like oh boy here we go he's talking about J makavo is the Beast and he is like somehow influenced by that evil force and I don't know if if that character is even alive at the end of glass I never saw glass I saw glass I I was like okay we're kind of in the verse here I I wouldn't be that surprised if at at the end we got a split style mid credit scene where it folds more into a larger story but I do okay that folds in nicely with what I was about to say anyway actually which is I think that maybe Shyamalan has become a victim of his own success which is a weird word to use um you know that's what I've been thinking about for years now so I I'm kind of unored but specifically with the whole like split unbreakable glass thing where the movie is very clearly left for a sequel and I wonder if he has left breadcrumbs for a sequel that he should have just tied up in this movie and that's my problem with split is that it's 2third of a movie uh and well it's not my big problem with split I have other bigger problems with split I should clarify that this is not the split podcast we will not get into them right now but the movie is like going to be pretty cool when when we finish this one up right you know and guess who's coming Bruce Willis and spoilers for split I guess if you cared you would have seen it uh that's not usually my attitude about I don't even think that's much of a spoiler after class came out they really made sure everyone in the world knew what the hell was going on there that trailer played for like a year in theaters that's that's the um that's the Deadpool and Wolverine trailer 2017 or whatever year that movie came out around it had to have been around that yeah it must have been but man I I there there is more of a setup for for more Cooper more the butcher in this than I was hoping for you know like you were saying in the promise of trap he is should be trapped legitimately and have to work through that it shouldn't just be like well he was smarter than everyone after all and nothing none of this mattered because he's just GNA get right back out like Houdini I don't I wouldn't I wouldn't argue that the ending is a super definitive es like getting out of his cuffs he is still in the back of a like locked Police armored vehicle with armed guards in the front it would I mean if there were a trap sequel I would love for it to open up right with that last scene I think that would be great yeah um I don't know what the Trap I shamalan I think does have an idea of what the Trap sequel is and the thing that salvages the last 15 minutes a little bit for me is his last moment with his daughter when she runs up and she hugs him and that puts a really interesting question mark on the character's like central conflict throughout the film which is I I need to pretend to be a good dad but I'm also this monster and once she knows who I am she still does love me also if you ever think about the emotional Whiplash of what this girl went through in like hours my God Jesus Christ yeah con most exciting concert of her life maybe one of the most exciting days of her Young Life at period Then building into she gets to go on stage with her Idol meet her Idol have her Idol come to her house and then dad's a serial killer like almost immediately as like 20 minutes into her sitting down and chatting with the family it's like okay dad's trying to knock down the dad's trying to get the bathroom door unlocked and he's locking us away so we don't get in the way of his being a serial killer and I mean all of that also off of the back of it starts with like oh she's being bullied and this is like a big day for her because it's she earned the tickets CU she got good grades and all that and it really is it's a lot and I'm I really also thought that she was going to be in on it at the end and that her like her good grades quote unquote were like you you got an A+ and kidnapping this guy with me sweetie we're gonna we're going to torture him together going into this movie I assumed that the Shyamalan twist quote unquote was going to be that the daughter was the serial killer that he was his ego her eor like a trick-or treat style like the kid was in on it all along even though yeah yeah I will say a storytelling beat that even though I appreciate switching to Lady Raven's perspective a storytelling beat that I really wish weren't off screen because of how the whole thing comes together at the end with the daughter hugging him is I really wish we had seen how he locked them away in Oh's room yeah and that is something that I have a little bit of a problem with is like how did you know obviously he's being scary with the door and stuff but thus far he hasn't been directly confrontational with his family and really even in the last scene with Allison pill it takes him a long time to get yeah I mean he's going to kill her obviously but it takes him a long time to get directly confrontational with her even in that scene so how did he get them all did he just Usher them upstairs and they went willingly because Allison pill knows that all of this is going to go away soon hopefully like I'm very curious about what that sequence was like also maybe I would like the second movie to be from the perspective of the daughter that would be interesting that would be interesting the daughter's perspective she is now she's back to getting bullied at school obviously yeah it's like oh you're your little butcher Junior over here and and she has to be like oh now my dad's on the loose and also a serial killer maybe he's killing her little friends for her like a crow like a crow bringing you a pocket watch um he starts off by killing her bully friends and that that Mom that's like really getting aggressive with him in the concert and then maybe I would you know maybe he runs back into lady Raven maybe he's like she was the one that made it all fall apart I also think that in a world lady Raven's character is such that lady Raven's going to keep in touch with Riley after this movie ends I think so that's another ele you could keep that's the actually the best way to keep all the characters intact from this movie if that is your intention with the sequel I know I don't know why we're running down this Rabbit Hole so much but I think it's because there's so many loose ends left untied by the third Act of this movie that I really like the tone and premise and characters and I just want it to be structured a little bit better for me which is not that's the opposite of the problem Shyamalan usually has yeah I I I very much agree I wanted I would have been pretty happy with the the Trap itself being the whole movie even they set up a lot they set up so much in this stadium that I felt like was going to be more of a of a payoff they they I thought there was going to be like a physical mouse trap at one point that was going to get him like with all all of thetick like he was going to be on stage and all of the weird like moving platforms and stuff were going to encase him yeah well I mean talk about things that I totally thought were going to be how he gets exposed the uh the other musician Russ in this the guy that comes up out of the ground right next to them I was like oh he's going to use that tunnel can't wait to see that tunnel oh that tunnel is going to come back it's right next to where they're standing it's right where he needs to go to and get and get back back from really rapidly you never go in that tunnel there's no tunnel yeah I think that kind of setup stuff is is weird because there's some things that they set up and then don't pay off like that's an obstacle right is but the Simplicity of the obstacle just being like Dad no we're not going down that way is less satisfying than the cops are there or I have to deal with this other problem that has cropped up elsewhere the like because literally the only reason he doesn't go into that tunnel is because his daughter asks him not to so it does feel like it's setting up for something more or even like the box cutter right the box cutter is showing you his character it's showing you that the way that he kills people is not just moments of opportunity that he likes jimie that he doesn't have an intention of harming jimie you know so totally totally but I I also all these little things like that in my mind I was like oh the real trap is getting him to think his Escape Route is in the tunnel where they're catching him or the real trap isoss Rogue exactly exactly the re the real trap is this random t-shirt guy Jamie just happening to spill the beans but like is it just happening or is that part of the Trap are we are we you know setting up these little things to make him think he is on the right track and then we're going to it's going to snap shut around him right away but it's like not no it's that's actually completely wrong and he ends up kind of getting away pretty Scout free even after making a an oil bomb in a deep fryer and like crippling a drunk woman by pushing her down concrete stairs yeah those are I mean that's I wish there was more of that if I'm being because both of those were in the trailer and I was like okay what other stuff like that's he going to do and that that was pretty much it that's pretty those are pretty much his tricks yeah yeah I really I was hoping there was going to be something with him messing with the cops coffee that they kind of teased in the trailer I thought there was going to be I I actually really loved the whole sequence where he was going through the cops I thought that was a really fun like there was a Jeopardy and excitement in that that was just dialogue based you know there is no real ticking clock there is no thing that he's trying to like he's not trying to hurt anybody in that moment he's just trying to obtain information do Recon and and get out of there un inconspicuously and and that is also another moment another scene in this movie that I think they could have utilized a little more Exposition they're literally like explaining what the butcher does and all they're just like he killed this man he there's here's a picture of this normal guy that he happened to kill I wanted them to be like recounting butcher stuff and him trying to not look thrilled by hearing about it and trying to get out without you know sweating too too much and keeping that cool that he keeps uh but you know it's just for him to yoink the radio which again should have led to a maybe a bit more hij Jinks within the stadium I agree I expected him to like be calling in fake oh there's something going on yeah learning the different code words for the different sections and like making people scramble because he is now playing the game but they get out of the Trap they're they're out of the Trap and then there's like a whole 45 minutes of of other things and again I'm I'm inclined to give sha Milan a little bit of a break for that because he had an interesting idea for a second half of the movie I just it just really it's that last 10 15 minutes that doesn't come together cuz I think if there was a trap in the house like a real trap in the house not swap guys yeah instead because they do try that for just a second the real trap was here all along wasn't it it's like no the cops just showed up while you were about to murder your wife like that wasn't the Trap all along if something like that or if there was even an iron a more ironic twist like if they had set up that he had one booby trap in his house that he got got by I don't know yeah there there something just a little bit more satisfying we've we've extra we've we've posited many different alternatives for the way that this goes that we would have probably been a little bit happier with but again overall I think that trap is a solid movie I would revisit it um I'm not dying to Revisited I think it is fun I it's no Snake Eyes which is what I was hoping it would be which is the Brian deom and Nick Cage movie that's all set in Arena you you should see that if you I definitely should I you know me I for being a movie guy I've seen literally nothing Gary sise that's all I have to say oh hey all right okay so overall trap I'm on board I I hope Shyamalan gets to make whatever sequel he clearly has in his head on the flip side I am not a on board and I probably wouldn't revisit this movie if I'm being honest I I thought that there were so many steps taken in the right direction that really fumbled uh in the last act there and I would I I weirdly enough I would love to see a sequel if I'm being honest I want more of this I I want like I want him to set up a trap in lady Raven's next Arena concert that she has to get out of but she's got to keep her cool so whatever I want I want trap to be more important I feel like I I want I want more of a follow through on the idea of trap if we're going trap 2 if we're doing more butcher I would like that I definitely would this like I said up top this is a streaming movie feel at best I wanted to have it be that indulgent concert film in a theater through and through or at least leave me more satisfied with that to have me not have so many problems with the ending but I think that I still against my better judge I get burned nearly every time I go see an M9 shamalan movie that I don't know too much about but I I still will do it I think dare I suggest that this is a this is a Meg one situation where you're like I really hope that they can pull out the crazy stops for for trap two I would love trap two Cole in the trench to materialize in some way that we could we can maybe okay here we go he is officially caught it starts with him in prison and Lady Raven going to visit him for whatever cathartic reasons that she has to and then it turns out he's got a trap in the prison that she can't get out of dude now we're stuck in the prison now we're stuck in the the trench trap to colon the cell all right get him night on the phone God damn it I didn't think we'd have to call in that favor too soon but I mean that is incredible oh well that's there you have it folks coming soon to a theater near you but what do you say we wrap it up here and we take it to the reference where we're going to talk more about M night shamalan I I love talking M night shamalan it's my favorite thing to do beautiful let's do it for today's pop culture reference we're going to be talking about ight shamalan and his family's experience in show business director writer producer and champion of the self-insert Cameo Mite Shyamalan has been globally recognized as a master of movie plot twists since his big break into Hollywood in 1999 with his horror Thriller the Sixth Sense while the quality of his ongoing work can be debated the Shyamalan name is now synonymous with the brand of suspenseful mystery films that he helped spearhead and he is lauded as one of the most successful Asian-American filmmakers in Hollywood history M night's financial success in his early career has allowed him to largely self-fund his projects and he has cited the creative freedom that he has afforded under his production company blinding Edge pictures as his greatest motivator to continue largely without outside money this massive disparity in budget between a major Hollywood production and the average blinding Edge project allows for these films to make a profit much easier than their major Studio counterparts and gives ight the freedom to run and cast his movies without outside producer jections famously ight has cast himself in nearly every film he has directed in low-level Cameo roles Allah Alfred Hitchcock but most recently has been using his creative freedom to shine the spotlight on the new entertainment careers of his adult children Shaman's eldest daughter appeared in her first ever film role in this week's main segment trap and debuted as a pop musician in 2020 using her first name celika as a celebrity mononym and Stage Persona she previously collaborated with both her father and younger sister isana for the very recent film projects old and the Watchers as the main feature on their respective soundtracks and also released an EP for the music she wrote and performed for the second and third seasons of the Apple TV plus series servant as Vivien Dale an unseen and tragically dead musician within the show that supplied much of the diagetic music is sha shamalan made her directorial debut this year with the Watchers which she also wrote the screenplay for and also directed four music videos for Celica leading up to the release of her first studio album Seance with all of these projects being produced by ight himself ishana previously held the role of second unit director for old and a knock at the cabin as well as a writer and director for 10 episodes of the same Apple TV plus series servant as we were discussing in the main segment unlike a lot of Hollywood nepotism where it feels really industry planty and manufactured I find the way that shamalan has kind of brought up his daughters into the entertainment industry Charming because it really does feel like he's trying to share the thing that he loves doing with them yeah I know they they always in in interviews both of his daughters talk about like their upbringing watching horror movies and thrillers as like a family and that seems to be I mean it's the family business now it really seems to be and uh I I was interested in seeing the Watchers regardless of the reception that it had but I know that it's an interesting idea that they're all three of them collaborating more than ever with these projects music directing writing performing all of these different things I am going to be very interested to see how much more connected that they end up being I know there there was like a billboard I think in the background of trap that has I caught it I didn't know it was going to be in there I missed it I had to I had to read about it but I I I like that kind of that's just like a real life Easter egg to to have a little fun there and I know he ight met and talked with Josh Harnet on the set of the Watchers in Ireland and that's kind of how he got that role I think I might have mentioned that a little bit before but the idea that they kind of connected over fatherhood and their roles in Hollywood as fathers and that kind of got that idea rolling for his placement in trap as the main character here and I I like that they're able to kind of go back and forth doing different projects I would like to see more of their stuff together and I I would even want to check out that Apple TV show that they all kind of did their own individual work on I've heard good things about servant actually much like other Apple TV projects it's something that gets relatively good reviews but Apple has no idea how to Market apparently yeah I I was largely unaware of it I knew that there was an M Night Shaman Affiliated show out there on Apple TV but I didn't know absolutely anything about it I think it's really interesting to use real pop music that is going on real albums as this diagetic tool to Showcase his daughter's talent and that's a lot of what we saw in trap as well I I I just like I think it like you're saying I'm not as grossed out by this nepotism because it seems like a family activity more than like he's trying to bolster them to make a bunch of money you know I like that he and his family and his production company they're it's very self funded I know that I know that cela's first album was like independently recorded outside of a label because they have Studio space that they work in together and and I don't know it it feel it feels more wholesome than creepy like a lot of other things that we see like this are the twist is that 9 Shyamalan is a pretty good dad that's that's the facts right there that's if no matter what you think about any of his movies you could walk out of him going you know at least he's he's good to his kids and that's that makes you feel good I'm glad my $12 Went to went to cela's Career oh hey maybe maybe we'll we'll check out some more of that I if I get more into that servant show I'm definitely gonna pop on that album that EP that she made for it I think that would just be fascinating definitely but what do you say we go ahead on over and save the rec center oh the Rex Center's a trapped we got to get out the re Center surrounded by a bunch of cops oh God [Music] save reor now it's time to save the rec center where we give you our weekly recommendations lay it on me Garrett so Sheamus some something like trap kind of like trap I am here today to be a defender of a thing that I think is unfairly thei oh okay and this is not something you've heard of but Kenneth branaugh in the year 2000 did a filmed version of the of probably the least acclaimed Shakespeare comedy loves labors lost and it was the last film that he directed that he also starred in for I think like 15 years or something crazy and I will say that he is noticeably playing like a young one of the strapping boys when he is 10 years older than every other strapping boy in the cast but his hook for L's labor lost was that he was setting it as a 1930s Musical and he includes musical numbers where the characters are singing 30s show tunes interpers with the Shakespeare dialogue now I don't think it all quite works but I checked it out streaming on Criterion Channel and I found it to be really Charming has a strong cast who maybe not all of which are suited for Shakespeare or musicals uh including allesandro navola Matthew Lillard Alicia Silverstone Timothy Spa Emily Mortimer and a absolutely Transcendent Nathan Lane performance wow what a cast jeez it's a strong cast that you know Alicia Silverstone is she very good at Shakespeare not really is doing enough good at Shakespeare I would I would say so and the fact that it's so big of a weird swing of it's a weird 30s musical it's also a Shakespeare adaptation and it's also kind of a World War II movie because it's set on the brink of the outbreak of the war in Europe it has a very surprisingly poignant ending and despite its flaws I was very much in its corner at the end of its like 95 minute run time to my surprise when I when I looked into what other people thought of this movie it was almost universally panned and it's very difficult for me to not be in the corner of a movie that is as charming and takes as big of swings as Kenneth branos loves labors lost does well I am a recent Kenneth Brana convert I know it took me a while to get there and and join the other folks who have who see the light but I am a fan of Kenneth Brana I'm a fan of his weird chicks be stuff and that's just strange enough of an idea and just interesting enough of a cast to really get me on board with this one I I would love to check that out uh maybe together so you can tell me a little bit of what the hell is going on because that sounds wild but that is I I am very I'm very interested I do think it's actually relatively accessible because he intercuts with news reels that are in modern parlaments and of course voiced also by branon himself because so there will be a news every like 20 minutes or so where he's like oh wow that just happened and here's what H here's the recap of what just happened and in the next scene we're going to do this don't get confused I like that that's I like that it's like it's like having the folder Shakespeare Library notes page across from the page of the original text be like okay sure yeah okay I get what that means Kenneth BR is is saying it which is just a delight in weird like like 30s uh like news it's hilarious that sounds truly delightful but what do you have to save the rec center this week Sheamus I have the IFC miniseries The Spoils of Babylon which has been one of my favorite pieces of Television comedy for years and years now it's like impossible to find on a higher quality disc that's like out like in the region that I could play it on more effectively but I finally Revisited it this week uh just a an absolute laugh right like belly laughs of just stupid comedy bits Toby Maguire Kristen wig Tim Robbins Val Kilmer Haley Joel Osman it's like the weirdest stacked cast for a parody of the the television miniseries events of the 70s and 80s that is just like cherry-picking and making fun of and making a really really fun jokes of all of the Great American literary Traditions that it is based on it spans like 50 years and none of the actors ever change how they look Haley Joel Osman plays like a 15-year-old boy even though he is a grown man smoking cigarettes it's all in the frame of Will Ferrell's disturbing and eccentric author character that is intro each episode of nonsense and it it's it's pure BS I got I guess I got to say it's almost akin to the other IFC miniseries style thing that I Rec centered a few weeks ago the Civil War on Drugs famously but it's it's even more heightened with smarter stupider jokes I'm trying to figure out a way to say that they're all just absurd editing and acting choices that are clearly supposed to be made from the the Viewpoint of a of a quote unquote incompetent filmmaker that they spend all of this time in this miniseries setting up how grueling the shoot was and how much of a Maniac Will Ferrell's character was and they they even made like a little fake making of documentary about how like this guy's an insane person it's taking three years to shoot this and he's never on set it's I one of my favorite things of all time it makes me laugh endlessly I I couldn't recommend it enough to you and it's all on YouTube right now for some reason and that's actually the only way I was able to find it outside of Netflix like 10 years ago so this it was it was a very genuinely fun time revisiting I have always wanted to see this show I remember when The Spoils of dying uh the spoils before dying was the sequel series that kind of fell flat for me but the yeah yeah when that was coming out there was a lot of advertising for it and I remember thinking that it looked good and I was vaguely aware that there was a predecessor to it that I wanted to watch and never gotten around to so I will have to take you up on this Sheamus it's something I in all honestly totally forgotten about until you just started talking about it so that sounds pretty fun like I said I've bet I if I could have already owned it in a high quality format I think you could maybe get a DVD of it but I this is like this is high art to me it's such a it's such a fun time and I I hope you do check it out because it really it's just six episodes 20 minutes each it flies by I swear but I think that wraps up for this week's episode of Pop Culture reference if you want to reach the show you can find us at pcrp podcast on Twitter Tik Tok and Instagram email us at Pop Culture reference pod gmail.com like us on Facebook engage with us in any way you can it really does help the show out uh mother would like you to I believe uh because next week's main segment we will be doing the original Ridley Scott alien in anticipation of the upcoming Al Romulus which I have pretty high expectations for considering how frequently the alien franchise lets us down oh well I am I am very excited to talk OG alien and I have not gone past Prometheus in the franchise so I I have some catchup to play and I'm I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the new stuff handles all of this I I do as well so everybody we will see you next week adios Jamie [Music]