Biden vs Palin: The 2008 Vice Presidential Debate

good evening from Washington University in St Louis Missouri I'm Gwen eiffel of the NewsHour and Washington Week on PBS welcome to the first and the only 2008 vice presidential debate between the Republican nominee Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska and the Democratic nominee Joe Biden of Delaware the commission on presidential debates is the sponsor of this event and the two remaining presidential debates tonight's discussion will cover a wide range of topics including domestic and foreign policy matters it will be divided roughly into five minute segments each candidate will have 90 seconds to respond to a direct question and then an additional two minutes for rebuttal and followup the order has been determined by a coin toss the specific subjects and questions were chosen by me and have not been shared or cleared with anyone on the campaigns or on the commission the audience here in the hall has promised to remain very polite no cheers Applause no untour outbursts except right at this minute now as we welcome Governor Palin and Senator Biden nice to meet you hey can I call you Joe okay thank you thank you Bren thank you thank you thank you welcome to you both as we have determined by a coin toss the first question will go to Senator Biden with a follow 90 second followup from Governor Palin the House of Representatives this week passed a bill a big bailout bill or didn't pass it I should say the Senate decided to pass it and the house is wrestling it with it still tonight as America watches these things happen on Capitol Hill Senator Biden was this the worst of Washington or the best of Washington that we saw play out well let me Begin by thanking you Gwen for hosting this and Governor it's a pleasure to meet you and it's a pleasure to be with you um I think it's neither the best or worst of Washington but it's evidence of the fact that the economic policies of the last eight years have been the worst economic policies we've ever had as a consequence you're seeing what's happened on Wall Street if you need any more proof positive of how bad the uh economic theories have been this excess of deregulation the failure to oversee what was going on letting Wall Street run wild I don't think you needed any more evidence than what you've seen now so the Congress have been put at Democrats and Republicans have been put in a very difficult spot but uh Barack Obama um uh laid out four basic criteria for any kind of uh rescue plan here he first of all said there has to be oversight we're not going to write any check to anybody unless there's oversight for the other the Secretary of Treasury he secondly said you have to focus on homeowners and folks on Main Street thirdly he said that if you have to treat the taxpayers like investors in this case and lastly what you have to do is make sure the CEOs don't benefit from this because this could end up the long run people making money off of this rescue plan and uh so a consequence of that it brings us back to maybe the fundamental disagreement between Governor Palin and me and Senator McCain and Barack Obama and that is that the we're going to fundamentally change the focus of the economic policy we're going to focus on the middle class because it's when the middle class is growing the economy grows and everybody does well not just focus on the wealthy and Corporate America thank you Senator Governor Palin thank you Granton I think the commission also we appreciate this privilege of being able to be here and speak with Americans you know I think a good barometer here as we try to figure out has this been a good time or a bad time in America's economy is go to a kids soccer game on Saturday and turn to any parent there on the sideline and ask them how are you feeling about the economy and I'll bet you you're going to hear some fear in that parents voice fear regarding the few Investments that some of us have in the stock market did we just take a major hit with those Investments fear about how are we going to afford to send our kids to college a fear as small business owners perhaps how we're going to borrow any money to increase inventory or hire more people the barometer there I think is going to be resounding that our economy is hurting and the federal government has not provided the sound oversight that we need and that we deserve and we need reform to that end now John McCain thankfully has been one representing reform two years ago remember it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fanny May and Freddy Mack reform measures he sounded that warning Bell people in the Senate with him his colleagues didn't want to listen to him and wouldn't go towards that reform that was needed then I think that the alarm has been heard though and there will be that greater oversight again thanks to John McCain's bipartisan efforts that he was so instrumental in bringing folks together over this past week uh even suspending his own campaign to make sure he was putting obsessive politics aside and putting the country first you both would like to be vice president Senator Biden how as vice president would you work to shrink this gap of polarization which has sprung up in Washington which you both have spoken about here tonight well that's what I've done my whole career Gwen on very very controversial issues from dealing with violence against women to putting 100,000 police officers in the street to trying to get something done about the genocide and that was going on in Bosnia and uh uh I uh I have been able to reach across the aisle I think it's fair to say that I have as almost as many friends the Republican side of the aisle as I do the Democratic side of the aisle but am I able to respond to are we able to stay on the uh on the you like yeah well you know uh until two weeks ago it was two Mondays ago John McCain said at 9:00 in the morning that the fundamentals of the economy were strong two weeks before that he said George we've made great economic progress under George Bush's policies 9:00 the economy was strong 11 o'clock that same day two Mondays ago John McCain said that we have an economic crisis that doesn't make John McCain a bad guy but it does point out he's out of touch those folks on the sidelines knew that two months ago Governor Palin you may resp respond John McCain and referring to the fundamental of our economy being strong he was talking to and he was talking about the American Workforce and the American Workforce is the greatest in this world with the Ingenuity and the work ethic that is just um in entrenched in our Workforce that's a positive that's encouragement and that's what John McCain meant now what I've done as a governor and as a mayor is truly had that track record of Reform and I've joined this team that is a team of Mavericks with John McCain ALS with his track record of Reform where we're known for putting partisan politics aside to just get the job done now Barack Obama of course he's pretty much only voted along his party lines in fact 96% of his votes have been solely along Party Line not having that proof for the American people to know that his commitment too is you know put the partisanship put the special interest aside and get down to getting business done for the people of America we're tired of the old Politics as Usual and that's why with all due respect respect I do respect your years in the US Senate but I think Americans are craving something new and different and that new energy and that new commitment that's going to come with reform I think that's why we need to send the Maverick from the Senate and put him in the white house and I'm happy to join him there Governor Senator neither of you really answer that last question about what you would do as vice president I'm going to come back to that throughout the evening to try to see if we can look for it as well now let's talk about this the next question is to talk about the subprime lending Meltdown who do you think was at fall uh I start with you Governor Palin was it the greedy lenders was it the risky home buyers who shouldn't have been buying a home in the first place and what should you be doing about it uh darn right it was the Predator lenders who tried to talk Americans into thinking that um it was smart to buy a $300,000 house if we could only afford a $100,000 house there was deception there and there was greed and there is corruption on Wall Street and we need to stop that again John McCain and I that commitment that we have made and we're going to follow through on that getting rid of that corruption one thing that Americans do at this time also though is let's commit ourselves just everyday American people Joe sixpack hockey moms Across the Nation I think we need to band together and Say Never Again never will we be exploited and taken advantage of Again by those who are managing our money and loaning us these dollars we need to make sure that we demand from the federal government strict oversight of those entities in charge of our investments and our savings and we need also to not get ourselves in debt let's do what our parents told us before we probably even got that first credit card don't live outside of our means we need to make sure that as individuals we're taking personal responsibility through all this it's not the American people's fault that the economy is hurting like it is but we have an opportunity to learn a heck of a lot of good lessons through this and say never again will we be taken advantage of Senator well Gwen um two years ago Barack Obama warned about the subprime mortgage crisis John McCain said shortly after that in December he was surprised there was a subprime mortgage problem uh John McCain while Barack Obama was warning about what we had to do was literally giving an interview to the Wall Street Journal saying that I'm always for cutting regulations uh we let Wall Street run wild uh John McCain and he's a good man but John McCain thought that the answer is that tried and true right right Republican response deregulate deregulate so what you had is you had overwhelming quote deregulation you had actually the belief that Wall Street could self-regulate itself and while Barack Obama was talking about reinstating those regulations John on 20 different occasions in the previous year and a half call for more deregulation matter of fact John recently wrote an article on a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the healthcare industry deregulate it and let the free market move like he did for the banking industry so deregulation was the promise and guess what those people who and say don't go into debt they can barely pay to fill up their gas tank I was recently at my local gas station asked a guy named Joey Dano I said Joey how much it cost to fill your tank you know what his answer was he said I don't know Joe I never have enough money to do it the middle class needs relief tax relief they need it now they need help now the focus will change with Barack Obama Governor please if you want to respond to what he said about Senator McCain's comments about Healthcare I'd like to respond about the tax increases and uh you know we we can speak in agreement here that darn right we need tax relief for Americans so that jobs can be created here now Barack Obama and Senator uh Biden also voted for the largest tax increases in US history Barack had 94 opportunities to side on the people's side and reduce taxes and 94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction 94 times now that's not what we need to create jobs and really bolster and heat up our economy we do need the private sector to be able to keep more of what we earn and produce government's going to have to learn to be more efficient and live with less if that's what it takes to reain in the government growth that we've seen today but we do need tax relief and Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year that that's a lot of middle inome uh average American family to increase taxes on them I think that is a way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy Senator charge is absolutely not true Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes the vote she's referring to John McCain voted the exact same way it was a budget procedural vote John McCain voted the same way it did not raise taxes number two using the standard that the governor uses John McCain voted 477 times to raise tax taxes it's a bogus standard but if you notice Gwen the governor did not answer the question about deregulation did not answer the question of Defending John McCain about not going along with the deregulation letting Wall Street run wild he did support deregulation almost across the board that's why we got in so much have an opportunity to answer that before I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again and I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor and I may not answer the questions the way that either the moderator you want to hear but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also as mayor every year I was in office I did reduce taxes I eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes and as Governor we suspended our state fuel tax we did all those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up now as for John McCain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations that is another thing that he has is known for though look at the tobacco industry look at campaign Finance reform okay our time is up here I'm going to move on to the next question Senator Biden we want to talk about taxes let's talk about taxes you have proposed raising taxes on people who earn over $250,000 a year the question for you is why is that not Health uh class Warfare the qu and the same question for you Governor Palin is you have proposed a taxing employer health benefits which some studies say would actually throw five million more people on the roles of the uninsured I want to know why that isn't uh taking things out on the poor starting with you Senator Biden well Gwen where I come from it's called fairness just simple fairness the middle class is struggling the middle class under John McCain's tax proposals one 100 million families middle class families households to be precise they got not a single change they got out a single break in taxes no one making less than $250,000 under Barack Obama's plan will see one single penny of their tax raise whether it's their capital gains tax their income tax investment tax any tax and 95% of the people in the United States of America making less than 150,00 ,000 will get a tax break now that seems to me to be simple fairness the economic engine of America is the middle class it's the people listening to this broadcast when you do well America does well even the wealthy do well this is not punitive John wants to add $300 million billion dollars in new tax cuts per year for Corporate America and the very wealthy while giving virtually nothing to the middle class we have a different value set the middle class is the economic mcen it's fair they deserve the tax breaks not the super wealthy are doing pretty well they don't need any more tax breaks and by the way they'll pay no more than they did under Ronald Reagan governor I I do take issue with some of the principle there with that redistribution of of wealth principle that seems to be espoused by you but when you talk about Brock's plan to tax increase affecting only the those making $250,000 a year or more you're forgetting theill millions of small businesses that are going to fit into that category so they're going to be the ones paying higher taxes thus resulting in fewer jobs being created and less productivity now you said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic um in the middle class of America which is where Todd and I have been you know all of our Lives that's not patriotic patriotic is saying government you know you're not always the solution in fact too often you're the problem so government lessen the tax burden on the private sector and on our families and get out of the way and let the private sector and our families grow and Thrive and prosper an increased tax formula that Barack Obama is proposing in addition to nearly a trillion dollars in new spending that he's proposing is the backwards way of trying to grow our economy Governor are you interested in defending Senator McCain's healthc care plan I am because he's got a good health care plan that is detailed and I want to give you a couple couple of details on that he's proposing a $55,000 tax credit for families so that they can get out there and they can purchase their own health care coverage and that's a smart thing to do that's budget neutral that doesn't cost the government anything as opposed to Barack Obama's plan to mandate healthc care coverage and have this Universal government run program and unless you're pleased with the way that the federal government has been running anything lately I don't think that it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider Health Care being taken over by the feds but a $5,000 Health Care Credit through our income tax that's budget neutral that's going to help and he also wants to erase those artificial lines between states so that through competition we can cross state lines and if there's a better plan offered somewhere else we'd be able to purchase that so affordability and accessibility will be the keys there with that $55,000 tax credit also being offered thank you Governor Senator Gwen I don't know where to start we don't call it redistribution in my neighborhood Scranton Claymont Wilmington the places I grew up to give the fair to say that uh not giving exom mobile another $4 billion do tax cut this year as John calls for and giving it to middle class people to be able to pay to get their kids to college we don't call that redistribution we call that fairness number one number two factually 95% of the small businesses in America their owners make less than $250,000 a year they would not get one single solitary Penny increase in taxes those small businesses now with regard to the to the health care plan you know it's with one hand you give it the other you take it you know how Barack Obama excuse me you know how John McCain pays for his $55,000 tax credit you're going to get a family will get he taxes as income every one of you out there every one of you listening who has a healthc care plan through your employer that's how he raises $3.6 trillion on your taxing your Healthcare Ben benefit to give you a $5,000 plan which his website points out will go straight to the insurance company and then you're going to have to replace a 12,000 that's the average cost of the plan you get through your employer it costs $122,000 you're going to have to pay replace a $112,000 plan because 20 million of you are going to be dropped 20 million of you be dropped so you're going to have to place replace a $122,000 plan with a $5,000 check you've just given to the insurance company I call that the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere thank you senator now I want to get try to get you both to answer a question that neither of your principles quite answered when my colleague Jim Lara asked it last week starting with you Senator Biden what promises given the events of the week the bailout plan all of this what promises have you in your campaigns made to the American people that you not going to be able to keep well the one thing we may have to slow down there a commitment we made to double foreign assistance we'll probably have to slow that down we all Al we're going to make sure that we do not go forward with the tax cut proposals of the administra of John McCain the existing one for people making over 250,000 which is uh $130 billion this year alone we're not going to support the $300 billion tax cut that they have for Corporate America and the very wealthy we're not going to support another $4 billion tax cut for Exon Mobile and what we're not going to also hold up on Gwen is we cannot afford to hold up on providing for incentives for new jobs by an energy policy creating new jobs we cannot slow up on education to give because that's the engine that is going to give us the economic growth and competitiveness that we need and we are not going to slow up on the whole idea of providing for affordable health care for Americans none of which when we get to talk about health care is as my uh as the governor characteriz character characterized the bottom line here is that we are are going to in fact eliminate those wasteful spending that exist in the budget right now a number of things I don't have time because the light is blinking that I won't be able to mention but one of which is the hundred billion doll tax Dodge that in fact allows people to take their post office box offshore avoid taxes I call that unpatriotic I call that unpatriotic that's what I'm talking about Governor uh well the nice thing about running with John McCain is I can assure you he doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group including his plans that will make this bailout plan this rescue plan even better I want to go back to the energy plan though because this is this is an important one that Barack Obama he voted for an ' 05 Senator Biden you would remember that in that energy energy plan that Obama voted for that's what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks your running mate voted for that you know what I had to do in the state of Alaska I had to take on those oil companies and tell them no you know any of the greed there that has been kind of um instrumental I guess in their mode of operation that wasn't going to happen in my state and that's why Tillerson at Exxon and mulva at kico Phillips bless their hearts they're doing what they need to do as a corporate CEOs but they're not my biggest fans because what I had to do up there in Alaska was to break up a monopoly up there and say you know the people are going to come first and we're going to make sure that we have value given to the people of Alaska with those resources and those huge tax breaks aren't coming to the big multinational corporations anymore not when it adversely affects the people who live in a state and in this case in a country who should be benefiting at the same time so it was Barack Obama who voted for that energy plan that gave those tax breaks to the oil companies that I then had to turn around as a governor of an energy producing state and kind of undo in my own area of expertise and that's energy so Governor as vice president there's nothing that you have promised as a candidate that you would be that you wouldn't take off the table because of this financial crisis we're in there is not and how long have I been at this like five weeks so there hasn't been a whole lot that I've promised except to do what is right for the American people put government back on the side of the American people stop the greed and Corruption on Wall Street and the rescue plan has got to include that massive oversight that Americans are expecting and deserving and I don't believe that John McCain has made any promise that he would not be able to keep either Senator again uh let me let's talk about the tax breaks Barack Obama Obama voted for an energy bill because For the First Time it had real um uh support for alternative energy when there were separate votes on eliminating the tax breaks for the oil companies Barack Obama voted to eliminate them John did not and let me just ask a rhetorical question if John really wanted to eliminate them why is he adding to his budget in an additional $4 billion in tax cut for Exxon mobs of the world that in fact already have made $600 billion since 2001 and look I agree with the governor she imposed a windfall profits tax up there in Alaska that's what Barack Obama and I want to do we want to be able to do for all of you Americans give you back a thousand bucks like she's been able to give back money to her folks back there but John McCain will not support a windfall profits tax they've made 600 billion dollar since 2001 and John McCain wants to give them all by itself separate no additional Bill all by itself another $4 billion tax cut if that is not proof of what I say I'm not sure what can be so I hope the governor is able to convince John McCain to support our windfall profits tax which she supported in Alaska and I give her credit for it next question Governor Palin still on the economy last year Congress passed a bill that would make it more difficult for debt strapped mortgage holders to clar bankruptcy to get out from under that debt this is something that John McCain supported would you have yes I would have but here again there have there have been so many changes in the conditions of our economy in just even these past weeks as there has been more and more Revelation made aware now to Americans about the corruption and the greed on Wall Street we need to look back even two years ago and we need to be appreciative of John McCain's call for reform with Fanny May with Freddy Mack with the mortgage lenders too who were starting to really kind of rear that head of abuse and the colleagues in the Senate weren't going to go there with them so we have John McCain to thank for at least warning people and we also have John McCain to thank for bringing in a bipartisan effort people to the table so that we can start putting politics aside even putting a campaign aside and just do what's right to fix this economic problem that we are in it is a crisis it's a toxic mess really on Main Street that's affecting Wall Street and now we have to be ever Vigilant and Al also making sure that credit markets don't seize up that's where the main streeters like me that's where we would really feel the effects Senator Biden you voted uh for this bankruptcy Bill Senator Obama voted against it uh some people have said that mortgage holders really paid the price well mortgage holders didn't pay the price only 10% of the people who are have been affected by this whole switch from chapter 7 to chapter 13 it gets complicated but the point of this Barack Obama saw the glass as half empty I saw it as half full we disagreed on that and 85 Senators voted one way and 15 voted the other way but here's the deal Barack Obama pointed out two years ago that there was a subprime mortgage crisis and wrote to the Secretary of Treasury and he said you better get on the stick here you better look at it John McCain said as early as last December quote I'm I'm paraphrasing I'm surprised about this sub crime mortgage crisis number one number two with regard to bankruptcy now Gwen what we should be doing now in Barack and Obama and I supported we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to readjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home but in be able to adjust the principle that you owe the principle that you owe that would keep people in their homes actually help banks by keeping it from going under but uh John McCain as I understand it I'm not sure of this I believe John McCain and the governor don't support that there are ways to help people now and the ways that are we are offering are not being supported by uh uh by the Bush Administration nor do I Believe by John McCain and Governor Palin Governor Palin is that so uh that is not so but because that's just a quick answer I want to talk about again uh my record on energy versus your tickets energy uh ticket also I I think that this is important to come back to with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in ' 05 when we talk about energy we have to consider the need to do all that we can to allow this nation to become energy independent it's a nonsensical position that we are in when we have domestic supplies of energy all over this great land and East Coast politicians who don't allow energy producing states like Alaska to produce these to tap into them and instead we're relying on foreign countries to produce for us we're circulating about 700 billion dollars a year into foreign countries some who do not like America they certainly don't have our best interest at heart instead of those dollars circulating here creating tens of thousands of jobs and allowing domestic supplies of energy to be tapped into and so start flowing into these very very hungry markets energy Independence is the key to this nation's future to our economic future and to our national security so when we talk about energy plans it's not just about uh who got a tax break and who didn't and we're not giving Oil Company tax breaks but it's about a heck of a lot more than that energy Independence is the key to America's future Governor I'm happy to talk to you in this next section about energy issues let's talk about climate change what is true and what is false about what we have heard read discussed debated about the causes of climate change yeah well as the nation's only Arctic State and being the governor of that state Alaska fills and sees impacts of climate change more so than any other state and we know that it's real I'm not one to attribute every man activity of man to the changes in the climate there is something to be said also for man's activities but also for the cyclical temperature changes on our planet but there are real changes going on in our climate and I don't want to argue about the causes what I want to argue about is how are we going to get there to positively affect the impacts we have got to clean up this planet we have got to encourage other nations also to come along with us with the impacts of climate change what we can do about that as Governor I was the first governor to form a climate change sub cabinet to start dealing with the impacts we've got to reduce emissions John McCain is right there with an all of the above approach to deal with climate change impacts we've got to become energy independent for that reason also as we rely more and more on other countries that don't care as much about the climate as we do we're allowing them to produce and to Emit and even pollute more than America would ever stand for so even in dealing with climate change it's all the more reason that we have an all of the above approach tapping into alternative sources of energy and conserving fuel conserving our petroleum produ products and our hydrocarbons so that we can clean up this planet and deal with climate change Senator what is true and what is false about the causes well I think it is man-made I think it's clearly man-made and look this probably explains the biggest fundamental difference between John McCain and Barack Obama and Sarah Palin and Joe Biden Governor Palin and Joe Biden if you don't understand what the cause is it's virtually impossible to come up with a solution we know what the cause is the cause is man-made that's the cause that's why the polar ice cap is melding now let's look at the facts we have 3% of the world's oil reserves we can consume 25% of the oils of the oil of the world John McCain has voted 20 times in the last decade and a half against funding alternative energy sources clean energy sources wind solar uh biofuels the way in which we can stop the greenhouse gases from emitting We Believe Barack Obama believes by investing in Clean Coal and safe nuclear we can not only create jobs and wind and solar here in the United States we can export it China is building one to three new Coal Fired plants burning dirty coal per week it's polluting not only the atmosphere but the west coast of the United States we should export the technology by investing in Clean Coal technology we should be creating jobs John McCain has voted 20 times against funding alternative energy sources and thinks I guess the only answer is drill drill drill drill we must but it will take 10 years for one drop of oil come out of any of the wells that are going to beun to be drilled in the meantime we're all going to be in real trouble Let Me Clear something up Senator McCain has said that he supports caps on carbon emissions Senator Obama has said he supports Clean Coal technology which I have don't believe you've always supported I have always support it that's a fact clear it up for us both of you and start with Governor Palin yes uh Senator McCain does support this the chant is drill baby drill and that's what we hear all across in this country in our rallies because people are so hungry for those domestic IC sources of energy to be tapped into they know that even in my own energy producing state we have billions of barrels of oil and hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of clean green natural gas and we're building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets Barack Obama and Senator oiden you've said no to everything in trying to find a domestic solution to the energy crisis that we're in you even called drilling safe environmentally friendly drilling offshore as raping the outer continental shelf there with new technology with tiny Footprints even on land it is safe to drill and we need to do more of that but also in that all of the above approach that Senator McCain supports the alternative fuels will be tapped into the nuclear the Clean Coal I was surprised to hear you mention that because you had said that there isn't anything such a thing as clean coal and I think you said it in a rope line too it one the we do need to keep keep within our two minutes but I just want to ask you do you support car capping carbon emissions uh I do I do okay and on the absolutely we do we we we call for setting hard Targets number one clean Co on Clean Coal oh on Clean Coal my record just take a look at the record my record for 25 years is supported Clean Coal technology a comment made in a rope line was taken out of context I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal it won't be as is dirty it will be clean but here's the bottom line Gwen how do we deal with global warming with continued addition to carbon emissions and if the only answer you have is oil and John and and the governor says John's for everything well why did John vote 20 times maybe he's for everything as long as it is not helped forward by the government maybe he's for everything if the free market takes care of it I don't know but he voted 20 times against funding alternative next round of pardon me the next round of questions starts with you Senator Biden uh do you you support as they do in Alaska granting samex benefits to couples absolutely do I support granting samesex benefits absolutely positively look in a Obama Biden Administration there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple the fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals joint ownership of property uh life insurance policies Etc that's only fair it's what the Constitution calls for and so we do support we do support making sure that that committed couples and the same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights their rights of visitation their rights of insurance their rights of ownership as as heterosexual couples do Governor would you support expanding that Beyond ataska to the rest of the nation well well not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman and unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead but I I also want to um clarify if there's any kind of suggestion at all for my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their Partners choosing relationships um that they deem U best for themselves you know I am tolerant and I have uh a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue some very dear friends who don't agree with me on this issue but um in that tolerance also no one would ever propose not in a McCain Palin Administration to do anything to prohibit say visitations in a hospital or um contracts uh being signed negotiated between parties but I will tell Americans straight up that I don't support uh defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman and I think through nuances we could go round and round about what that actually means but I'm being as straight up with Americans as I can in uh my nonsupport for anything but a traditional definition of marriage let's try to avoid Nuance Senator do you support gay marriage no Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a from a civil side what constitutes marriage we do not support that that is basically a decision to be able to be left to the faith and people who practice their faith determination what you call it the bottom line though is and I'm glad to hear the governor I take her at her word obviously that she thinks there should be no civil rights distinction none whatsoever between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple if that's the case we really don't have a difference is that what you said uh your question to him was whether he supported uh gay marriage and my answer is the same as his and and it is that I do not wonderful you agree on that note let's move to foreign policy okay you both have sons who are in Iraq or on their way to Iraq you Governor Palin have said that you would like to see a real clear plan for an exit strategy what should that be Governor I am very thankful that we do have a good plan and the surge in the counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq that has proven to work I am thankful that that is part of the plan implemented under a great American hero General Petraeus and pushed hard by another great American Senator John McCain I know that the other ticket opposed this surge in fact even opposed funding for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan Barack Obama voted against funding troops thereafter promising that he would not do so and Senator Biden I respected you when you called him out on that you said that his vote was political and you said it would cost lives and Barack Obama at first said he would not do that he turned turned around under political pressure and he voted against funding the troops we do have a plan for withdrawal we don't need early early withdrawal out of Iraq we cannot afford to lose there or we're going to be no better off in the war in Afghanistan either we have got to win in Iraq and with the surge that has worked we're now down to pre-surge numbers in Iraq that's where we can be we can start putting more troops in Afghanistan as we also work with our NATO allies who are there strengthening us and we need to grow our military we cannot afford to lose against Al-Qaeda and the Shia ex extremists who are still there still fighting us but we're getting closer and closer to Victory and it would be a travesty if we quit now in Iraq Senator GL with all due respect that in here a plan Barack Obama's offered a clear plan shift responsibility of the Iraqis over the next 16 months draw down our combat troops ironically the same plan that Malaki the the prime minister of Iraq and George Bush are now negotiating the only odd man out here only one left out is John McCain number one number two with regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops John McCain voted the exact same way John McCain voted against funding the troops because the amendment he voted for voted against had a timeline in it to draw down American troops and John said I'm not going to fund the troops if in fact there was a timeline Barack Obama and I agree fully completely on one thing you've got to have a timeline to draw down the troops and shift responsibility to the Iraqis we're spending $10 billion a month while the Iraqis have an80 billion Surplus Barack says it's time for them to spend their own money have the 400,000 military we've trained for them begin to take their own responsibility and gradually over 6 months 16 months withdrawal John McCain this is a fundamental difference between us we will will end this war for John McCain there is no end in sight to end this war fundamental difference we will end this war Governor um your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq and that is not what our troops need to hear today that's for sure and it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on you guys oppose the surge The Surge Works Barack Obama still can't admit this The Surge works we'll know when we're finished in Iraq when the Iraqi government can govern its people and when the Iraqi security forces can secure its people and our commanders on the ground will tell us when those conditions have been met and Malaki and talb talibani also in working with us are knowing again that we're getting closer and closer to that point that Victory that's within sight now you said regarding Senator McCain's uh military policies there Senator Biden that you supported a lot of these things in fact you said that uh you wanted to run you'd be honored to run with him on the ticket and that's an indication I think of some of the support that you had at least until you became the VP pick here um you also said that Barack Obama was not ready to be commander-in-chief and I know again that you opposed the move that he made to try to cut off funding for the troops and I respect you for that I I don't know how you can defend that position now but um I I know that you know especially with your son in the National Guard and I have great respect for your family also and the honor that you show our military um Barack Obama though another story there anyone I think who can cut off funding for the troops after promising not to that's another story Senator Biden John McCain voted to cut off funding for the troops let me say that again John McCain voted against amendment containing $1 b600 million that I had gotten to get M wraps those things that are protecting this uh the governor's son and pray God my son and a lot of other Sons and Daughters he voted against it he voted against it the funding because he said the amendment had a timeline in it to end this war and he didn't like that but let's get straight who has been right and wrong John McCain and Dick Cheney said while I was saying we would not be greeted as liberators we would not this war would take a decade not the uh not a day not a week not 6 months we would not be out of there quickly John McCain was saying the sunis and and she has got along with each other without reading the history of the last 700 years John McCain said there' be enough oil to pay for this John McCain has been dead wrong I love him as my mother would say God love him but he's been dead wrong on the fundamental issues relating to the conduct of the war Barack Obama has been right there are the facts let's move on to Iran and Pakistan I'm curious about what you think starting with you Senator Biden which is the greatest threat a a nuclear Iran or an unstable Pakistan explain why well they're both extremely uh extremely dangerous uh I always have focused as you know quen I've been focusing on for a long time along with Barack on Pakistan Pakistan already has nuclear weapons Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean Iran getting a nuclear weapon would be very very destabilizing they are more than they are not close to getting a nuclear weapon that's able to be deployed so they're both very dangerous they'd both be gamechangers but look here's what the fundamental problem I have with John's policy about Terror instability John continues to tell us that the central war in the front on terror is in Iraq I promise you if an attack comes in the Homeland it's going to come as our our security services said it's going to come from Al-Qaeda planning in the hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan that's where they live that's where where they are that's where it will come from and right now that resides in Pakistan a stable government needs to be established we need to support that democracy by helping them not only with their military but with their governance as well as their economic well-being there have been 7,000 madrassas built along that border we should be helping them build schools to compete for those hearts and minds of the people in the region so that we actually able to take on terrorism and by the way that's where Ben Laden lives and we will go at him if we have actionable intelligence Governor nuclear Pakistan unstable Pakistan nuclear Iran which is the greater both are extremely dangerous of course and as for who uh termed that Central war on terror being in Iraq it was General Petraeus and Al-Qaeda both leaders there and it's probably the only thing that they're ever going to agree on but that it was a central war on terror is in Iraq you don't have to believe me or John McCain on that I would believe Petraeus and that leader of Al-Qaeda uh an armed nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider they cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons period Israel is in Jeopardy of course when we're dealing with edad as a leader of Iran Iran claiming that Israel is he termed it a stinking corpse a country that should be wiped off the face of the earth now a leader like AK medad who is not sane or stay able when he says things like that is not one whom we can allow to acquire nuclear energy nuclear weapons akad dad Kim Jung ill uh the Castro Brothers others who are dangerous dictators are ones that Barack Obama has said he would be willing to meet with without preconditions being met first an issue like that taken up by a presidential candidate goes beyond naive and goes beyond poor judgment a statement that he made like that is right dangerous because leaders like AK medad who would seek to acquire nuclear weapons and and wipe off the face of the Earth an ally like we have in Israel should not be met with without preconditions and diplomatic efforts being undertaken first governor and Senator I want you both to respond to this secretaries of State Baker Kissinger poell Baker they have all advocated some level of Engagement with enemies do you think think this these former secretaries of state are wrong on that no and Dr Henry Kissinger especially and I had a good conversation with him recently and he shared with me also his passion for diplomacy and that's what John McCain and I would engage in also but again with some of these dictators who hate America and hate what we stand for with our freedoms our democracy our tolerance our respect for women's rights those who would try to destroy what we stand for cannot be met with just sitting down on a presidential level as Barack Obama had said he would be willing to do that is beyond bad judgment that is dangerous no diplomacy is very important first and foremost that is what we would engage in but diplomacy is hard work by serious people it's lining out clear objectives and having your friends and your allies ready to backy up there and have sanctions lined up also before any kind of presidential Summit would take place Senator uh can I can I clarify this that's just simply not true about Barack Obama he did not say he'd sit down with Amman inad the fact of the matter is it surprises me that Senator McCain doesn't realize that akad dad does not control the security apparatus in Iran the theocracy controls the security apparatus number one number two five secretaries of state did say we should talk with and sit down now John and Governor Palin now say they're all they have a passion I think the Frid was a passion for diplomacy and that we have to bring our friends and allies along our friends and allies have been saying Gwen sit down talk talk talk our friends and allies have been saying that five secretaries of state three of them Republicans and John McCain has said he would go along with an agreement but he wouldn't sit down now how do you do that when you don't have your Administration sit down and talk with the adversary and look what President Bush did after 5 years he finally sent a high ranking Diplomat to meet with the highest ranking diplomat and Iran in Europe to try to work out an arrangement our allies are on that same page and if we don't go the extra mile in diplomacy what makes you think the Allies are going to sit with us and last point I'll make John McCain said as recently as a couple weeks ago he wouldn't even sit down with the government of Spain a NATO Ally that has troops in Afghanistan with us now I find that incredible Governor you mentioned Israel and your support for Israel what has this Administration done right or wrong this is the great lingering unresolved issue the Israeli Palestinian conflict what have they done and is a two-state solution the solution a two-state solution is the solution and secretary rice having recently met with um leaders on one side or the other they're also still in these waning days of the Bush Administration trying to forge that piece and uh that needs to be done and that will be top of an agenda item also under a McCain Palin Administration Israel is our strongest and best ally in the Middle East we have got to assure them that we will never allow a second Holocaust despite again warnings from Iran and any other country that would seek to destroy Israel that that is what they would like to see we will support Israel a two-state solution building our Embassy also in Jerusalem those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish with this peace-seeking nation and they have a track record of being able to forged these peace agreements they succeeded with Jordan they succeeded with Egypt I'm sure that we're going to see more success there also it's got to be a commitment of the United States of America though and I can promise you in a McCain Palin Administration that commitment is there to work with our friends in Israel Senator Glen no one in the United States Senate has been a better friend to Israel than Joe Biden I would have never ever joined this ticket were I not absolutely sure Barack Obama shared my passion but you asked the question about whether or not this administration's policy had made sense or something to that effect it has been an abject failure this administration's policy In fairness to secretary rice she's trying to turn it around now in the seventh or eighth year here's what the president said when we said no he insisted on elections on the West Bank when I said and others said and Barack Obama said big mistake Hamas will win you legitimize them what happened Hamas won when we kicked along with France we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon I said and Barack said move NATO forces in there fill the vacuum because if you don't know if you don't Hezbollah will control it now what's happened Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of uh Israel the fact of the matter is the policy of this Administration has been an abject failure and speaking of Freedom being in the March the only thing on the March is a Iran it's closer to Obama its proxies now have a major stake in Lebanon as well as in the Gaza Strip with Hamas we will change this policy with thoughtful re life diplomacy that understands that you must back Israel and letting them negotiate support their negotiation and stand with them not insist on policies like this Administration has has this administration's policy been an abject failure as the senator says Governor uh no I do not believe that it has been but I'm so encouraged to know that we both love Israel and I think that is a good thing to get to agree on Senator Biden I respect your position on that no in fact when we talk about the Bush Administration there's a time too when Americans are going to say enough is enough with your ticket on constantly looking backwards and pointing fingers and and doing the blame game there have been huge blunders in the war there have been huge blunders throughout this Administration as there are with every Administration but for a ticket that wants to talk about change and looking into the future there's just too much finger pointing backwards to ever make us believe that that's where you're going positive change is coming though reform of government is coming we'll learn from the past mistakes in this Administration and other administrations and we're going to forge ahead with putting government back on the side of the people and making sure that our country comes first putting obsessive partisanship aside that's what John McCain has been known for in all these years he has been the Maverick he has ruffled feathers but I know Senator Biden you have respected him for that and I respect you for acknowledging that but change is coming just looking backwards senator look uh pastor's prologue Gwen the issue is how different is John McCain's policy going to be than George Bush's I haven't heard anything yet I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different on Iran than George Bush's I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different with Israel than George Bush is I haven't heard how his policy in Afghanistan is going to be different than George bushes I haven't heard how his policy in Pakistan is going to be different than George bushes it may be but so far it is the same as George Bush's and you know where that policy is taking us we will make significant change so once again we're the most respected nation in the world that's what we're going to do governor on another issue interventionism nuclear weapons what should be the trigger or should there be a trigger when nuclear weapons use is ever put into play uh nuclear weaponry of course would be uh the be all endall of just too many people and too many parts of our planet so those dangerous regimes again cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons period our nuclear weaponry here in the US is used as a deterrent and that's a safe stable way to use nuclear weaponry but for those countries North Korea also under Kim Jung ill we have got to make sure that we're putting the economic sanctions on these countries and that we have friends and allies supporting us in this to make sure that leaders like Kim jungo and uh edad are not allowed to acquire to proliferate or to use those nuclear weapons it is that important can we talk about Afghanistan real quick also though okay I'd like to just really quickly uh mention there too that when you when you look back and you say that the bush administration's policy on Afghanistan perhaps would be the same as as McCain and that's not accurate The Surge principles not the exact strategy but the surge principles that have worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan also and that perhaps would be a difference with the Bush Administration now Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air raing Villages and killing civilians and such a reckless Reckless comment an untrue comment again hurts our cause that's not what we're doing there we're fighting terrorists and we're securing democracy and we're building schools for children there so that there is opportunity in that country also there will be a big difference there and we will win in Afghanistan also Senator you may talk about nuclear use if You' like and also about Afghanistan I'll talk about both with Afghanistan facts matter Gwen the fact is that our Commanding General in Afghanistan said today that a surge The Surge principles used in Iraq will not let me say this again now our Commanding General in Afghanistan said The Surge principal of IRS will not work in Afghanistan not Joe Biden or Commanding General Afghanistan he said we need more troops we need government building we need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan look we have spent more money we spent more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country let me say it again 3 weeks in Iraq 7 years seven years or 6 and a half years in Afghanistan now that's number one number two with regard to Arms Control and weapons nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime John McCain voted against the comprehensive nuclear Test Ban Treaty that every Republican is supported John McCain is opposed amending the nuclear testband treaty with an amendment to Al allow for inspections John McCain has not been has not been the kind of supporter for dealing with and by the let me put it another way my time's almost up Barack Obama first thing he did when he came to the United States Senate new Senator reached across the aisle to my colleague dick Luger Republican and said we've got to do something about keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists they put together a piece of legislation that in fact was serious and real every major I shouldn't say every on the the two at least that I named I know that John McCain has been opposed to extending the arm control regime in the world Governor well first mlen did not say definitively that the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan certainly accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different we have NATO allies helping us for one and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles also could work in Afghanistan mlen didn't say anything opposite of that the counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan clearing holding rebuilding the Civil Society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan and um those leaders who are over there who have also been advising George Bush on this have not said anything different but that Senator well um our Commanding General did say that uh the fact of the matter is that uh again I'll just put in perspective of while Brock and I and Chuck Hegel and Dick Luger have been calling for more money to help in Afghanistan more troops in Afghanistan John McCain was saying two years ago quote the reason we don't read about Afghanistan anymore in the paper it succeeded Barack Obama was saying we need more troops there again we spend in three weeks on combat missions in Iraq more than we spent in the entire time we have been in Afghanistan that thatle change in the Barack Obama administration Senator you have quite a record this is the next question here of being an interventionist you have argued for intervention in bosia and Kosovo initially in Iraq in Pakistan and now in darur putting US troops on the ground boots on the ground is this something the American public has a stomach for well I think the American public has a stomach for success and my recommendations on Bosnia I admit I was the first one to recommend it they saved tens of thousands of lives and initially John McCain opposed it along with a lot of other people but the end result was it worked and look what we did in Bosnia we took serbs croats and bosniacs being told by everyone I was told by everyone that this would mean that they've been fighting and killing each other for a thousand years it could never work there's a relatively stable government there now as there is in Kosovo with regard to a Iraq I indicated that it would be a mistake to go into I gave the president the power I voted for the power because he said he needed it not to go to war but to keep the United States the UN in line to keep sanctions on Iraq and not let them be lifted from the I along with dick Luger before we went to war said if we were to go to war without our allies without the kind of support we needed we'd be there for a decade it cost us tens of billions of dollars John McCain said no that was going to be okay I don't have a stomach for genocide when a comes to DAR for we can now impose a noly Zone it's within our capacity we can lead NATO if we're willing to take a hard stand we can I've been in those camps in Chad I've seen the suffering thousands and tens of thousands of people have died and are dying we should rally the world to act and we should demonstrate it by our own movement to provide the helicopters to get those 21,000 forces of the African Union in there now to stop this genocide thank you Senator governor oh man it's so obvious that I'm a Washington Outsider and uh someone just not used to the way you guys operate because here you voted for the war and now you oppose the war you're one who says you know as so many politicians do I was for it before I was against it or vice versa Americans are craving that straight talk and just want to know hey if you voted for it tell us why you voted for it and it was a war resolution and you had supported John McCain's military strategy pretty adamantly until um until this race and you had opposed very adamantly Barack Obama's military strategy including cutting off funding for the troops that attempt uh all through the primary and I watched those debates and and so you know I remember what those were all about but as for darur we can agree on that also support of the no-fly zone um making sure that all options are on the table there also America is in a position to help what I've done in my position to help as the governor of a state that's pretty rich in natural resources we have a $40 billion in investment fund a savings fund called the Alaska Permanent Fund when I and others in the legislature found out that we had some millions of dollars in Sudan we called for divestment through legislation of those dollars to make sure we weren't doing anything that would see be seen as condoning the activities there and our four that legislation hasn't passed yet but it needs to because all of us as individuals and as humanitarians and as elected officials should do all that we can to end those atrocities in that region of the world is there a line that should be drawn about when we decide to go in absolutely there is a line that should be drawn the line that should be drawn is whether or not we a first of all have the capacity to do anything about it number one number two there are certain new lines that have to be drawn internationally when a country engages in genocide when a country engages in harboring people who are killing our people terrorist and they will do nothing about it that in fact at that point that country in my view and in barack's view forfeits their right to say you have no right to intervene at all the truth of the matter though is that let's go back to John McCain's strategy I never supported John McCain strategy on the war John McCain said exactly what Dick Cheney said go back and look at Barack Obama's statements in mind go look at Joe biden.com contemporaneously held hearings in the summer before we went to war saying if we went to war we would not be greeted as liberators we would have a fight between the sunnis and Shia we would be tied down for a decade it would cost us hundreds of billions of dollars John McCain was saying the exact opposite John McCain was lock step with Dick Cheney at that point about how this was going to be easy so John McCain's strategy in this war not just whether or not to go the actual conduct of the war has been absolutely wrong from the outset governor um I uh beg to disagree with you again here on whether you supported Barack Obama or John McCain's uh strategies here again you can say what you want to say a month out before people are asked to to vote on this but um we listen to the debates I think tomorrow morning you know the pundits are going to start doing the who said what at what time and and we'll have proof of some of this but again John McCain who knows how to win a war who's been there and he's faced challenges and he knows what evil is and he knows what it takes to overcome the challenges here with our military he knows to learn from the mistakes from the blunders that we have seen in the war in Iraq especially he will know how to implement the strategies working with our commanders though and listening to what they have to say taking the politics out of these War issues he'll know how to win a war thank you Governor probably the biggest cliche about the vice presidency is that it's a Heartbeat Away everybody's waiting to see what would happen if the worst happened how would you disagree on some things from your principles you disagree on Alaska Drilling in Alaska the National Wildlife Refuge you disagree on surveillance law at least you have in the past how would a Biden Administration be different from an Obama administration if that were to happen well God forbid that it would ever happen it would be a national tragedy of historic proportions if it were to happen but if it did I would carry out Barack Obama's policies his policies of reinstating the middle class making sure that they get a fair break making sure that they have access to affordable health insurance making sure they get serious tax breaks making sure that we can help their children to get to College making sure we have an energy policy that leads us in the direction of not only toward Independence and a cleaner environment but an energy policy that creates 5 million new jobs a foreign policy that ends this war in Iraq a foreign policy that goes after the one Mission the American public gave the president after 9/11 to get and capture or kill Benin Laden and to eliminate Al-Qaeda a policy that would in fact engage our allies in making sure that we knew we were acting on the same page and not dictating and a policy that would reject the Bush Doctrine of preemption and regime change and replace it with a doctrine of prevention and cooperation and ladies and gentlemen this is the biggest ticket item that we have in this election this the most important election you will ever ever have voted in any of you since 1932 and where such Stark differences I would follow through on barack's policies because in essence I agree with every major initiative he is suggesting governor and heaven forbid yes that that would ever happen um no matter how this ends up that that would ever happen with either party um as for disagreeing with John McCain and how our Administration would work what do you expect a team of Mavericks of course we're not going to agree 100% on everything and as we discuss anoir at least we can agree to disagree on that one and I'm going to keep pushing him on anoir though I have so appreciated that he has never asked me to check my opinions at the door and he wants deliberative debate and healthy debate so that we can make good policy what I would do also if that were to ever happen though is to continue the good work that he is so committed to and that's putting government back on the side of the people and get rid of the greed and the corruption on Wall Street and in Washington I think we need a little bit of reality from Wasilla Main Street there brought to Washington DC so that people there can understand how the average workingclass family is viewing bureaucracy and the federal government and Congress and the inaction of Congress just every day workingclass Americans saying you know government just get out of my way if you're going to do any harm and mandate more things on me and take more of my money and income tax and business taxes you're going to have a Choice uh in just a few weeks here on either supporting a ticket that wants to create jobs and bolster our economy and win the war or you're going to be supporting a ticket that wants to increase taxes which ultimately kills jobs and is going to hurt our economy can I respond look all you got to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington and go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy this Administration has made them better off in the last8 years and then ask him whether there's a single major initiative that John McCain differs with the president on on taxes on Iraq on Afghanistan on the whole question of how to help education on the dealing with Health Care look the people in my neighborhood they get it they get it and they know they've been getting the short end of the stick so walk with me in my neighborhood go back to my old neighborhood in Clay on an old steel town or go up to Scranton with me these people know the middle class has gotten the short end the wealthy have done very well Corporate America has been rewarded at some time we change it Barack Obama will change it Governor I Say It Ain't So Joe there you go again pointing backwards again though you prefaced your whole comment with the Bush Administration Now dog on it let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future you mentioned education and I'm glad that you did I know that education you are passionate about and with your wife being a teacher for 30 years and God bless her her reward is in heaven right um I say too with education America needs to be putting a lot more focus on that in our schools have got to be really ramped up in terms of the funding that they are deserving teachers needed to be paid more um I come from a a house full of school teachers my grandma was my dad who's in the audience today he's a school teacher had been for many years my brother who I think is the best school teacher in the year and there's a shout out to all those third graders at gladwood elementary school you get extra credit for watching this debate education in America has been in some sense in some of our states just accepted to be a little bit LAX and we have got to increase the standards No Child Left Behind was implemented is not doing the job though we need flexibility and No Child Left Behind we need to put more of an emphasis on the profession of teaching we need to make sure that education in either one of our agendas I think absolute Top ofth Line my kids as public school uh participants right now it's near and dear to my heart I'm very very concerned about where we're going in education and we've got to ramp it up and put more attention in that Arena everybody gets extra credit tonight we're going to move on to the next question Governor you said in July that you would have to someone would have to explain to you exactly what it is the vice president does every day you Senator said you would not be vice president under any circumstances now maybe this was just what was going on at the time but tell us now looking forward what it is is that you think the vice presidency is worth now okay in my comment there it was a lame attempt at a joke and yours was a lame attempt at a joke too I guess because nobody got it of course we know what a vice president does they didn't get yours or mine which one mine no no um no of course we know what a vice president does and that's not only preside over the Senate and we'll take that uh position very seriously also I'm thankful that the constitution would allow a bit more Authority given to the Vice President also if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and uh making sure that we are supportive of the president's policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are John McCain and I have had good conversations about where I would lead with his agenda and that is energy Independence in America and reform of government overall and then working with families of children with special needs that's near and dear to my heart also and in those arenas John McCain has already tapped me and said that's where I want you I want you to lead and I said I can't wait to get there and go to work with you Senator uh Grant I hope we'll get back to education because I don't know any government program that John is supporting not Early Education more money for it the reason No Child Left Behind was left behind was the money was left behind we didn't fund it but we can get back to that I assume um with regard to the role of the vice president I had a long talk as I'm sure the governor did uh with her principal in my case with bar Barack and uh let me tell you what Barack asked me to do I have a history of getting things done in the United States Senate John McCain would acknowledge that my record shows that on controversial issues I would be the point person for the legislative initiatives in the United States Congress for our Administration uh I would also uh when I asked if I wanted a portfolio my response was no but Barack Obama indicated to me he wanted me with him to help him govern so every major decision he'll be making I'll be sitting in the room to give him my best advice he's president not me I'll give my best advice and one of the things he said early on when he was choosing he said he'd pick someone who had an independent judgment it wouldn't be afraid to tell him if he disagreed that is sort of my reputation as you know so I I look forward to working with Barack and playing a uh a very uh constructive role in his presidency bringing about the kind of change this country needs Governor you mentioned a moment ago that the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past do you believe as vice president Cheney does that the executive branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency that is it is also a member of the legislative branch well our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president and we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and usering in an agenda that is supportive and Cooperative with the president's agenda in that position um yeah so I I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation and it is my executive experience that is partly to uh be attributed to my pick as VP with with um Mccain not only as a governor but earlier on as a mayor as an oil and gas regulator as a business owner it is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the white house also vice president's Cheney interpretation of the vice president vice president Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history uh he has he has the idea he doesn't realize that article one of the Constitution defines the role of Vice President of the United States that's the executive he works in the executive branch he should understand that everyone should understand that and the primary role of the Vice President of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America give that President his or her best judgment when sought and as the vice president to preside over the Senate only in a time when in fact there's a TI vote the Constitution is explicit the only Authority the vice president has from the legis standpoint is to vote only when there is a TI vote he has no Authority relative to the Congress the idea he's part of the legislative branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney toize the power of a unitary executive and look where it's gotten us it has been very dangerous let's talk conventional wisdom for a moment the conventional wisdom Governor Palin with you is that your Achilles heal is that you lack experience your conventional wisdom uh uh against you is that your Achilles heal is that you lack discipline Senator Biden what is it really for you Governor Palin and what is it really for you Senator Biden start with you Governor uh my experience as an executive will be put to good use as a mayor and business owner and oil and gas regulator and then as governor of a huge State a huge energy producing state uh that is accounting for uh much progress towards getting our nation energy Independence and that's extremely important but it wasn't just that experience tapped into it was my connection to the heartland of America being a mom being a one who is very concerned about a son in the war about a special needs child about kids heading off to college how are we going to pay those tuition bills about times and Todd and and our marriage and our past where we didn't have health insurance and we know what other Americans are going through as they sit around the kitchen table and try to figure out how are they going to pay out of pocket for Health Care we've been there also so that connection was important but even more important is that worldview that I share with John McCain that worldview that says that America is a nation of exceptionalism and we are to be that shining City on a Hill as President Reagan so beautifully said that we are a Beacon of Hope and that we are Unapologetic here we are not perfect as a nation but together we represent a perfect ideal and that is democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights those things that we stand for that we can be put to good use as a Force for good in this world John McCain and I share that and you combine all that with being a team with the only track record of making a really a difference in where we've been and reforming and that's a good team it's a good ticket Senator you've been very kind suggesting my only Achilles heel is my lack of discipline others talk about it my excessive passion I'm not going to change uh I have 35 years in public office people can judge who I am I haven't changed in that time and by the way a record of change I will place my record and barack's record against John McCain's or anyone else in terms of fundamental accomplishments wrote the crime Bill put 100,000 cops in the street wrote the violence against women act which John McCain voted against both of them uh was the The Catalyst to change the circumstance in Bosnia led by President Clinton obviously look I understand what it's like to be a single parent when my wife and daughter died and my two sons were Gravely injured I understand what it's like as a parent to wonder what it's like if your kids's going to make it I understand what it's like to sit around the kitchen table with a father who says I got to leave champ because there's no jobs here I got to head down to Wilmington and when we get enough money honey we'll bring you down I understand what a is like I'm much better off than almost all Americans now I get a good sour United States Senate I live in a beautiful house it's my total investment that I have so I I am much better off now but the notion that somehow because I'm a man I don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone I don't know it's like to have a child you're not sure is going to is going to make it I understand I understand as well as with all due respect the governor or anybody else what it's like for those people sitting around that kitchen table and guess what they're looking for help they're looking for help they're not looking for more of the same Governor people aren't looking for more of the same they are looking for Change and John McCain has been the consumate Maverick in the Senate over all these years he's taken shots left and right from the other party and from within his own party because he's had to take on his own party when the time was right when he recognized it was time to put partisanship aside and just do what was right for the American people that's what I've done as Governor Al also take on my own party when I had to and work with both sides of the aisle in my cabinet appointing uh those who would serve regardless of party Democrats Independents Republicans whatever it took to get the job done uh also John McCain's Maverick uh position that he's in that's really prompt up to and indicated by the supporters that he has look at Lieberman and Giuliani and uh Romney and lingle and all of us who come from such a diverse background of of policy and of partisanship all coming together at this time recognizing he is the man that we need to leave in lead in these next four years because these are tumultuous times we have got to win the wars we have got to get our economy back on track we have got to not allow the greed and Corruption on Wall Street anymore and we have not got to allow the partisanship that has really been entrenched in Washington DC no matter who's been in charge when the Republicans were in charge I don't see a whole lot of progress there either when the Democrats either though this last go around for the last two years change is coming and John McCain is the leader of that reform I'll be very brief can I respond to that look the Maverick let's talk about the Maverick John McCain is and again I love him he's been a Maverick on some issues but he has been no Maverick on the things that matter to people's lives he voted four to five times for George Bush's budget which put us a half a trillion dollars in debt this year and over $3 trillion in debt since he's got there he has not been a Maverick in providing Healthcare for people he has voted against he voted against including another 3.6 million children in coverage that of the existing health care plan when he voted in the United States Senate he's not been a Maverick when it comes to education he has not supported tax cuts and significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college he's not been a Maverick on the war he's not been a Maverick on virtually anything that generally affects the things that people really talk about around their kitchen table can we send can can we get Mom's MRI can we send Mary back to school next semester we can't we can't make it how are we going to heat the co heat the house this winter he voted against even providing for what they call Li Heap for assistance to people with oil prices going through the roof in the winter so Maverick he is not on the important crical issues that affect people at that kitchen table final question tonight before your closing statement starting with you Senator Biden can you think of a single issue and this is the cast light for people who are just trying to get to know you in your final debate your only debate of this year can you think of a single issue policy issue in which you were forced to change a long-held view in order to accommodate change circumstances yeah I can uh when I got to the United States Senate uh and went under the Judiciary Committee as a young lawyer I was of the view and been trained to the view that the only thing that mattered was whether or not a nominee appointed suggested by the president had a Judicial temperament uh had not committed a crime of moral turpitude and was had been a good student and it didn't take me long it was hard to change but it didn't take me long but it took about 5 years for me to realize that the ideology of that judge makes a big difference that's why I led the fight against judge Bourke had he been in the court I suspect there'd be a lot of changes that I don't like and the American people wouldn't like including everything from roie way to issues relating to civil rights and civil liberties and so that that that that was one of the intellectual changes that took place in my career as I got a close look at it and that's why I was the first chairman of the Judiciary Committee to forthrightly state that it matters what your Judicial philosophy is that American people have a right to understand it and to know it but I did change on that and uh and I'm glad I did Governor uh there have been times where as mayor and Governor we have passed budgets that I did not veto and that I think could be considered as something that um I quasi caved in if you will but knowing that it was a right thing to do in order to progress the agenda for that year and to work with the legislative body that body that actually holds the pur strings so there were times when I wanted to zero base budget and to cut taxes even more and I didn't have enough support in order to accomplish that but on the major principal things no there hasn't been something that I've had to compromise on because we've always seemed to find a way to work together up there in Alaska what we have done is with bipartisan efforts is worked together and again not caring who get the credit for what as we accomplish things up there and that's been just um a part of the operation that I wanted to participate in and that's what we're going to do in Washington DC also bringing both sides together John McCain is known for doing that also in order to get the work done for the American people let's come full circle you both want to bring both sides together you both talk about bipartisanship bipartisanship once again we saw what happened this week in Washington how do you change the tone as vice president as number two well again I believe John McCain were here were he here this is a dangerous thing to say in the middle of an election but he would acknowledge what I'm about to say I have been able to work across the aisle on some of those controversiales and change my party's mind as well as Republicans because I learned a lesson from Mike Mansfield Mike Mansfield the former leader of the Senate said to me one day he I I made a criticism of Jesse Helms he said what would you do if I told you Jesse Helms and do Helms had adopted a child who had braces and was in real need I said I'd feel like a jerk he said Joe understand one thing everyone sent here for a reason because there's something in them their folks like don't question their motive I have never sensed that moment in my first year question the motive of another member of the Congress or Senate with whom I've disagreed I've questioned their judgment I think that's why I have the respect I have been able to work as well as have been able to have work in the United States Senate that's the fundamental change Barack Obama and I will bring to this party not questioning other people's motives Governor you do what I did as governor and you appoint people regardless of party affiliation Democrats Independents Republicans you you walk the walk you don't just talk the talk and even in my own family it's a very diverse family and we have uh folks of all political persuasion in there also so I've grown up just knowing that you know at the end of the day as long as we're all working together for the greater good it's going to be okay but the policies and the proposals have got to speak for themselves also and again voters on November 4th are going to have that choice to either support a ticket that supports policies that create jobs you do that by lowering taxes on American workers and on our businesses and you build up infrastructure and you rein in government spending and you make our our nation energy independent or you support a ticket that supports policies that will kill jobs by increasing taxes and that's what the track record shows is a desire to increase taxes increase spending a trillion dollar spending proposal that's on the table that's going to hurt our country and saying no to energy Independence Clear Choices on November 4th Governor Palin you get the chance to make the first closing statement well again Gwen I do want to thank you and the commission this is a such an honor for me and I appreciate too Senator Biden getting to meet you finally also and getting to debate with you and I would like more opportunity for this I like being able to answer these tough questions without the filter even of the mainstream media kind of uh telling viewers what they've just heard I'd rather be able to just speak to the American people like we just did and it's so important that the American people know of the choices that they have on November 4th I want to assure you that John McCain and I we're going to fight for America we're going to fight for the middle class average everyday American family like mine I've been there I know what the hurts are I know what the challenges are and thank God I know what the joys are too of Living in America we are so blessed and I've always been proud to be an American and so has John McCain we have to fight for our freedoms also economic and our national security freedoms it was Ronald Reagan who said that freedom is always just one generation away from Extinction we don't pass it to our children in the bloodstream we have to fight for it and protect it and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same or we're going to find ourselves spending our Sunset years telling our children and our children's children about a Time in America back in the day when men and women were free we will fight for it and there is only one man in this race who has really ever fought for you and that's Senator John McCain thank you Governor Senator Biden Gwen thank you uh for doing this and the commission and governor it really was a pleasure getting to meet you um look folks this is the most important election you've ever voted in your entire life no one can deny that the last eight years we've been dug into a very deep hole here at home with regard to our economy and abroad in terms of our credibility and uh there's a need for fundamental change on our economic philosophy as well as our foreign policy and Barack Obama and I don't measure progress toward that change based on whether or not we cut more regulations and how well CEOs are doing or giving another $4 billion in tax breaks to the Exon mobes of the world we measure progress in America based on whether or not someone can pay their mortgage whether or not they can send their kid to college whether or not they're able to when they send their child like we have abroad or I'm about to abroad and John has as well I might add to fight that they're the best equipped and they have everything they need and when they come home they're guaranteed that they have the best health care and the best education possible you know in the neighborhood I grew up in uh it was all about dignity and respect a neighborhood like most of you grew up in and in that neighborhood there was filled with women and men mothers and fathers who taught their children if they believed in themselves if they were honest if they worked hard if they loved their country they could accomplish anything we believed it and we did that's why Barack Obama and I are running to reestablish that certitude in our neighborhoods ladies and gentlemen my dad used to have an expression he say champ when you get knocked down get up well it's time for America to get up together America's ready you're ready I'm ready and Barack Obama is ready to be the next president of the United States of America may God bless all of you and most of all for both of us selfishly may God protect our troops that ends tonight's debate we want to thank the folks here at Washington University in St Louis and the commission on presidential debates there are two more debates to come next Tuesday October 7th with Tom Brokaw at Belmont University in Nashville and on October 15th at Hoster University in New York with Bob Sheaffer thank you Governor Palin and Senator Biden good night everybody thank you thank you thank you so much thank you you too thank you how are you