Ukraine war: 'This war could be ended in five minutes by Russia' - Poland's foreign minister

foreign minister thank you so much uh for joining us here on the program I want to first of all um ask you some questions about uh some remarks that President zinsky made last week about the Western Russian region of kush um he talked about the fact that they have no plans to withdraw from the area that they crossed a red line and that you know ultimately they were able to achieve it I just want to get your take on their position now and do you think it's sustainable what they're trying to achieve well uh Ukraine has been attacked um and it is fa game for the victim of aggression to defend itself also on the territory of the aggressor that's international law um I think uh the incursion has already had a psychological effect in Russia has already shown that Ukraine can take the initiative that uh uh in a war it's never one way that it goes through ups and downs and and both sides have initiative in various periods and in different fields remember Ukraine won the Battle of the Black Sea and is again exporting its grain through the Bosphorus um recently Russia has had the advantage on land mostly uh but Ukraine has shown that it can surprise Russian forces therefore Uh Russian leadership cannot count on this war going their way I guess guess you know going back and forth in this way what is the end game what would Poland suggest should be the end game uh Poland would suggest that President Putin makes a phone call to his chief of staff and tells him to get the hell out of Ukraine that's not going to happen but it could this this war could be ended in five minutes by Russia unfortunately Ukraine does not have this option because it's desperately defending its uh Independence and you might argue even very existence so then you know given you say that it's in the ball is in Russia's Court we don't think that Putin is actually going to do that at this stage not yet not yet but what then do you think is the Practical moves do you think that President zalinski the ukrainians should just accept that they there is a part of eastern Ukraine that they're going to lose and that they're going to have to sit at the end of the day across from the Russians and negotiate uh I'm not sure why you're suggesting that um Ukraine should give up its territory would you give up your territory um we need to stay the course uh in supporting the victim of aggression there was a vote at the United Nation General Assembly one of the most overwhelming votes in the history of the UN to condemn the aggressor this is not a press statement it's law and we have a duty as the International Community to take counter measures to restore the um respect for the internationally recognized border the the uh guarantees that uh the US Britain and above all Russia gave to Ukraine in 1993 in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons and also remember Ukraine and Russia have a border treaty solemnly signed and ratified by Putin so when you're saying they should negociate um they have politics too you know um and uh we should stay the course in helping Ukraine re repel this aggression Russia didn't give Crimea back though did it even though internationally it's not recognized you've got thousands of ukrainians dying soldiers dying on the front lines every day and in a couple of months time we could see a change in power in the United States that's why perhaps I'm saying are there other discussions being had you know options that are being explored rather than this war needs to continue because if Trump comes back into Power one of the things he said is I'm going to end this war in 24 hours well there's a lot here of course uh the war could be ended uh by Ukraine capitulating uh but a a world in which stronger countries can just invade neighbors with impunity and uh and journalists calling on the victim to capitulate is not a world that I want to live in I want to live in a world of rules where you cannot change International borders through the power of the Fist um yes Ukrainian soldiers are dying they are fighting heroically to defend their country more Russian uh soldiers are dying at the rate of roughly a thousand a day um this is a terrible uh uh War for for Russia as well Russia is destroying its National wealth financing this war and the question is how long they can sustain it um we don't know that these colonial wars usually take a while because uh for it to end the Russian Elite above all Vladimir Putin would have to come to the conclusion that he cannot achieve his aims recovering his Colony at an acceptable cost he's clearly not there yet do you have faith in the United States sticking the course well kamla Harris said in her acceptance speech that that she believes in NATO and that she would continue the policy of the uh Biden administration of which she is a part uh from the Republican uh camp we get mixed messages uh some people in close advisors to the former president say that that what they mean by ending the war quickly is threatening Putin with escalation of uh assistance to Ukraine to give Putin more incentives to be more realistic that's a scenario uh I could support I've spent time in Ukraine and I see the struggle that they face when there is a lag in weapons or you know the countries they're relying on have some kind of political debate internally namely the United States that's why I I ask these questions because I I I want to understand better when I say what the endgame is you know other than Ukraine needs to keep fighting what if that is no longer the option on the table for them but it is uh European Union has uh supported Ukraine to the tune of about 120 billion the United States roughly 90 billion mostly weapons which is very important um Britain and Poland actually do a lot for Ukraine Britain has just I think announced some extra measures Poland is on its 45th package of assistance we've provided 4 billion euros of assistance um we but this is a a tiny fraction of European economy or of of could they be doing more I think we should because the cost of deterring Putin if he conquered Ukraine and came to the Polish border would be much higher well you know all too well I mean is this something that the the Polish people worry about yes we do we've been invaded by Russia many times in our history when they threaten us we trust them and uh we think it's better to stop Putin while we still can you had a viral moment when you spoke at the UN recently and responded to the Russian Ambassador in it you said that Russia changes after losing Wars I I just want to better understand what you mean by that well uh Britain took part in the Crimean War in the 19th century Russia had reforms after that Russia lost the war with Japan and only after that did it in did it allow a constitution a parliament and freedom of the press um Russia was knocked out of World War I won and it briefly had a liberal government um Russia lost the war in Afghanistan uh and there was uh reform in the Soviet Union gorbachov peresta and so on um so a win for Ukraine is also uh a chance and a hope for Russia I guess Russia also collapses after losing Wars well it's better not to St them uh and the the project of rebuilding the Russian Empire is uh is more than than Russia can achieve this is completely unrealistic and the only question is how's how many people have to die before Russian leadership realizes this Poland's in quite a unique position because even your far-right groups are pro-western when it comes to Russia because they understand the threat all too well but that's not necessarily the case in other European countries for example actually uh I think public support is pretty solid on Ukraine uh I think there are more divisions among politicians than among people because I think people know and and can appreciate when they see evil you know um purging whole provinces stealing children let's not forget Vladimir Putin is an indicted war criminal um bombing uh civilian targets hospitals schools uh housing Estates uh and for what for what purpose for what reason you know we after two bloody world wars we established a taboo that you may not in invade countries on the pretext of coming to the assistance of your compatriots on the other side of of an international border if you have a a a gripe about that you go to the Council of Europe you go to International courts you don't send in the tanks and these taboos are important on China you've just recently returned uh from Asia are you worried that the United States especially under a trump 2.0 is going to become focused on its rivalry with China rather than investing in the ongoing war in Ukraine well rivalry China is here to stay but it the Rivalry needs to be kept at the right temperature without boiling over um uh China is a it's a more complex relationship with China than it used to be with this with the old Soviet Union um I co-authored the uh European parliament's uh stance on China in which we coined the phrase collaborate where possible terrorism climate compete where needed mostly in the economic sphere and confront when necessary when we have uh uh you know using up uh intellectual property or there are revisionist aspirations to change borders um all borders in the world are accidents of History if we started changing them it's a recipe for conflict and disaster so we'd better live with the borders that they have and we in Europe um know that we would be affected by anything going kinetic in the Far East that's why we don't want it so do you believe then you should Europe should stand with the United States when it comes to its attitude towards China United States is our most important Ally but China is a really important trade partner so we don't want um anything to go badly wrong because then would be forced to uh take sides and of course we would choose our best ally but uh but if you think the decoupling from Russia has been expensive through the energy prices for example DEC sudden decoupling from China would be even worse and just briefly if I can I I you know Poland's position on the situation Gaza the the um idea of a two-state solution is also unique I just wanted you to address that ongoing conflict because you know the the war in Ukraine has had globally a much more um higher economic impact but the war in Gaza has had a a greater social impact in terms of how people and countries feel about it there's actually something that links them the same Iranian drones and missiles that are being sold to Russia to attack Ukraine are also used to attack Israel um in Poland we have sympathy for both Nations we have a fully accredited uh Palestinian Ambassador at the head of state we recognize the statehood of pales but we obviously also recognize uh Israel's right to live in Secure borders and we think it's tragic that uh that they cannot that they cannot agree to have uh um to separate and for both Nations to live within their own States in a peaceful Manner and just briefly uh foreign minister I know you'll say that you know the US election is for the Americans to decide but are you worried about a second Trump presidency we don't take sides uh Poland wishes to have the best possible relations with whoever wins foreign minister thank you so much for your time thank you