Joe Manganiello | Ep. 76 | Podcrushed

welcome to pod Crush you know the deal I am here with my co-hosts Nava Kaplan and Sophie I'm sorry our guest today really gave me a just just just a little hit of like a like a yeah I really need to get back into the gym because I'm I'm starting my the gy I'm starting my show no I mean it's this is the thing is like you know I have I have I have closed on it's all it's all fine you can't tell what's actually going on but I am now nearing 40 I am nearing I am I mean I'm nearing 40 I'm 37 is that right yeah I'm going to be 38 this year W um I've been thinking to myself yeah whoa I'm just kidding I was just thinking about how when when we started I think you were 34 and that's crazy I'm like oh my God so much time has been passing I know when I started you the show I was 30 wow wow is that right yeah I was 30 so anyway point being um I have been trying on you know the the the clothes for for for my where I'm playing Joe Goldberg mhm fitting into all the old stuff and I'm like wow I it's the pants are very tight it's really you know you know postco world I mean I just wear sweatpants most of the time or something that's stretchy you know like I wear stretchy stuff and my goodness it was hard to get into those to those pants again and I've just been thinking like I am I have to think a little bit differently like I have to be more proactive and have to really dedicate myself to eating differently which I which I so don't like doing but got to do it and so your clothes fit tighter not cuz you're more buff but because you've gained weight just we just to make sure I'm not trying to shame you but I was actually thinking the other day on a zoom although I can't remember in Scotland I didn't register it in person but I was thinking on a zoom that you looked more buff no I was I thought maybe you were already hitting the gym this is my version of gaining weight I for a while he looks more buff no no this is what I'm saying when I have clothes on it's like oh he just looks good and then and then but then it's like I try on my old pants and it's like well first of all I don't think I often realize how skinny I am when I'm skinny yeah yeah and then and what it takes is trying on the old clothes and I'm like holy crap the clothes really do it like this is the same thing has been happening to me postpartum like right after I had a baby I was like oh I could easily fit into this thing or this why would think you were just yeah why would you think like I think I was so disconnected from my body like I was just like oh yeah I wasn't even like looking at it but I was like yeah I feel good so I can I can definitely fit into that and then the sad truth when you try to pull but it's not but no no no hang I'm going to help us reprogram all of ourselves it's not sad at all you just had a baby you're 30 years old there's a lot of natural normal things happening for myself included I don't want to shame me or anybody who's got a little you know what do you call it a I was going to call it a fat tire but it's a flat tire um you know like a skinny man's flat tire that kind of thing what do they call it spare tire what is it I don't know yeah Tire a thing right around the midsection well speaking of Fitness well speaking of Fitness it's not all he's known for but it is an aspect of his career we have Joe manganello today an actor and host now you know him uh back in the day from shows like True Blood franchises like Magic Mike we got Sam ry's Spider-Man that's OG the original uh and also now he's hosting NBC's Deal or No Deal Island uh Joe has uh has really an incredible life yeah we get right into it in the beginning um he did the entire interview with the sweetest little adopted dog on his lap yeah um if you haven't already fallen in love with him you're about to I don't think we've ever had a guest where every chapter or season of their life felt like it should be turned into a movie like I just kept thinking why isn't this a movie yet it's amazing you guys are going to like it cuz he hasn't made it yet he's in pre-production yeah enjoy you're going to love it welcome to podc crushed we're your hosts I'm pen I'm Nava and I'm Sophie and I think we could have been your middle school besties comparing pens yeah I liked comparing pens that was just a thing I like to do okay we start in middle school or adolescence that's why it's called podc crushed we we we take these like sort of formative times of life and then then kind of go from there so it's interesting that you have never had a pet a lot of people grow up with animals it's just you know kind of like it's a it's a fairly typical American thing um tell us anything else about 12-year-old Joe uh you know like where where were you how were you seeing the world gosh well I'm from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania my parents are from Boston but I was born in Pittsburgh um no one in my family was in the entertainment industry so I I'll say that yeah so if we're just giving a snapshot pooke bottle glasses ears that stuck out like kind of fluffy haircut to cover big ears I was good at sports and like even from like the first year I ever played a sport I was always the captain of whatever team wow I was always Head and Shoulders taller than all the kids like I stopped grow vertically at like 16 wow W so and how are you I'm 6'5 oh wow oh jeez that was when the kids started catching up was like was around that age but like at 12 13 I'm a head shoulder Soler and all the other kids I was a good football player but I would say that like very skinny upper body you know like so and I was super super super like at at that point 12 years old I don't think I I had a be I ever got a B in in a class up to that point and I never did my homework um I would asol the tests not do my homework um my they wanted the school wanted me to skip two grades wow when I was in elementary school my father wouldn't allow it because of sports he didn't want me to to fall behind or not have that be part of my upbringing um two grades is remarkable because I I feel like you you hear about one grade two grades yeah two yeah so I was bored I go to school I go to home room with with the kids my age and then I'd dip out and go to classes with all the older kids so I had like a lot of my friends were just older kids and I just gravitated towards them I was also like an Avid Reader I would read just compulsively to the point where I was shoplifting books shoplifting comic books in facts so that I could just read and read and read I was a voracious reader wow you know I had to be like told to go out side you know like at a certain age because I just wanted to be inside reading I painted I drew I had action figures I would just talk these crazy complex story lines with the figurines and the drawings and I would read comic books to get ideas and and things like that so I was very much into mythology you know dragons like you know mythological preatures I you know I was obsessed with the lockness monster like so I was like a really like nerdy intellectual I I was really good at cards like crazy easy I could count into a deck of cards from the time when I was like a little kid I was like I would beat the adults I knew what they had in their hand I knew what not to play I my mom took me to an old man when I was five years old and I started chess lessons and when I was six he entered me into a chess tournament and and I placed third and I I remember I was bored in the final game I just wanted to go home I was like hungry I don't want to play this anymore and I just stopped concentrating wow so you know like I was I was a really interesting kid who had all of these kind of internal interests but I was also born into a body that was Head and Shoulders bigger than all the other kids yeah and good at sports so it was like I was always sort of you feel like you're being torn between you have like different sets of friends for different things yeah right right yeah I'm trying to think of like the the ven diagram of people who are incredibly naturally gifted at Sports and Incredibly naturally good at like math and academics and like vicious readers and into mythology and in the middle is it just just Joe was there anyone else with you in the middle of that sort of um like I said I had friends that were in different groups you know I'd have like even when I was like nine years old like like I learned how to like dungeon master or game master tabletop role playing games where I would just write my own stories and run my friends through them yeah which is a way for me to tell stories and create story and kind of direct to my friends and so um those kids were not on the sports team yeah I'm sure but then as you kind of get older and and this is probably older than 12 13 but like you know I ate lunch with the jocks because I was the quarterback of the football team at age 12 13 at seventh grade so you know I ate with the jocks I went to you know birthday parties with the jocks and then as we got older Friday night was like I'm going to buy beer you're bringing it over you know we're hanging out with the cheerleaders but then on Saturday I would go and run games for my gaming friends or those friends then turned into like film club friends where I started writing my own movies and directing my own movies and we'd wake up on Saturday and i' go film with my kind of my artistic friends who were like getting into DJing and film making and you know so I had that but they was all very separate every every all the groups were separate sometimes there were a few crossovers you know I I had a couple I had like one friend towards the end of high school who was kind of a bad kid and he kept getting sent off to boarding school but when he would come back we would like sneak off downtown on the subway and go to like the cool record store and get like you know whatever electronic mid99s records or mixtapes we could find of like Chemical Brothers or da Punk before anybody knew who they were he was like yo this is band Sublime and I got to get this album 40 ounces of freedom and like we were like cool like we knew what cool was we were figuring out what fool was and we would steal comic books and then pass them back and forth to each other we would sit on the floor oh okay cool here's Predator versus Alien oh cool cool cool give me that you know Extinction agenda X-Men cool cool cool you know yeah so I did have a friend I had a partner in crime but then he didn't graduate high school and he got in trouble and that was it a so it's like he kind of got set off over here it sounds like your youth you experienced it as very rich is that true my youth experience yeah well it just sounds like it's very it's rich like you in like I mean we all grow we you know we we all have plenty of Sorrows and difficulties and awkwardness growing up which we do want to get into definitely you know if you're willing but but but but but I think it's interesting to hear you reflect because it sounds Rich it sounds like you also experienced it richly like you were appreciating it at the time or do you really only feel that in retrospect do you know what I mean no I I definitely think you know at the time I mean and also say this you know my dad grew up in a neighborhood that was you know I would say Rough Around the Edges you know um uh rich in a certain way but um but you know his goal was to you know once once he started having children was to to move me um into a neighborhood where the same trouble that was available say to him or his friends or the kids he grew up GRE up with who were all like in big big big time trouble like was not available and you know he got offered a job in Pittsburgh and so he and my mom moved there and then he moved me into he moved us into this like top five in the nation school district and I went to this unbelievable High you know this the the kind of the pathway was to this unbelievable high school that had every amenity on the planet it was the kind of suburban upbringing where you know my mom could leave the keys at her car at night wow we could leave the front door open nothing ever happened there was no crime and kids it was stranger things kids on bikes leave in the morning you go out all day long when the Sun starts going down you know it's time to go home to have dinner or you need to call your mom because you're going to have dinner at your friend's house and you ride your bike home in the dark and be you know be safe but it was like we were just out all day you know doing things figure figuring things out playing you know playing pickup over here or shoping holic books over there whatever it was you know so there was so much time and like safety for kids to kind of figure out what your interests were which is like I really benefited from because I wasn't the kind of actor who was pushed into ballet class at age five like a lot of the drama kids that I went to drama school with they were in it to win it from the they went to performing arts high schools I wasn't I was a really well-rounded kind of suburban kid who went to this like really amazing high school with all these amenities who then like also had a TV studio there so wow kind of like I say late in life you know like 16 years old I started making my own movies and I was like kind of the last actor to jump in the boat that was you know the Carnegie Mel and school of drama like like I probably picked up acting the latest out of anyone to get into that school and I think I really benefited from it because I had a lot of time to develop in other ways that's incredible but but answer your question I I really know I knew it at the time man I mean gosh like I mean more so now but like no I I really um I I was as much as I could I was trying to create my own curriculum Joe I'm so intrigued by this little tidbit you told us about your mom that she took you to this old man even the way you told it you she took you to an old man who taught you how to play chess and I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about your parents and what was your home life like well Mom yeah Mom was mom was cognizant of the the artist that I was you know being an artist is sometimes sometimes you you have people looking over your shoulder or or raising you who I think I mean I've heard of it I've heard of people who have you know parents who are artists and they grew up in an artistic household and you know all of that is is very much um you know encouraged and or are at least seen as a potential vocation or um you know an honorable profession and but I think for for most of the world I think that I think that's seen as like a real negative yeah you know totally like like like you know you're too sensitive you need to tough out you all of those things that like you would hear growing up as you know a nail during that that era you know and and and really it's um you see it as the negative I think or at least that gets baked in you as a negative and I think then life or your your growing up becomes a way of learning how to protect that artist's side of you while also you know like like the way that I have this dog sleeping on my leg she feels safe enough that she can go and just nap out and closed her eyes this little tiny thing that would have like every natural predator in the entire world is going to like I had to become this in order to protect the artist that was inside of me that kid that to not take it personally to be and and and you know part of that I think was physical I think there was a part of me that wanted to like create this armor to in order to protect the I don't want to say inner child cuz that's a little that's that's kind of like a little too far for me to go you know but but I mean but it's probably true yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly you know to kind of to protect so that so that I could be comfortable enough to create of course yeah yeah you know and so so I think a lot of my creating was done like kind of off the radar or like I'm supposed to be up there doing my homework but I'm writing stories that I'm drawing yeah yeah yeah so it sounds like maybe your mother your mother saw that which I think by the way is often quite common it was like sort of my case you know think art classes and things like that art classes I wanted to play learn how to play piano I did I stopped playing piano when football happened because I didn't have time after school anymore and you know so there was but yeah she was always taking me to art class or or sign me up for chess or you know whatever all those things you know um that were gonna taking me to Children's Theater I think you know like Puppet Theater with like The Hobbit where there was like a dragon on stage and I love that oh puppets are actually really amazing the Mastery that it takes to make a real puppet is so cool so wait so with your so then your dad it sounds like sports and maybe academics were his focused or just sports for you yeah I think my dad my dad really um you know I I was like I said Head and Shoulders bigger than the other kids which is like which it's such a thing yeah yeah and it comes from my mom's di my mom is Caan and German and they're Jun is she taller than your dad no she is 5'9 dad is 5'11 but I'm 65 my brother's 6'7 whoa whoa we're both athletes and my mother is like a was a physical specimen like she would train in the gym every day she lifted weights like when Mna was buff like my mom for a period of time like was like that you know like she and in the ballroom dancing you know um even still to this day she's like super athletic so you know very disciplined in that way so so and ate like nothing but organic food from like the 70s wow um which was like really rare I don't know where she was getting it but um you know my brother and I didn't know what candy was until like we were a little bit older wow you know wow so like it was just you know it it was and but my dad was very much like saw that I had physical gifts in that way and was like well you know naturally like that's that's a clear path yeah you know you're gonna be the captain of everything then you're gonna go off to college and you're gonna be you know I don't know Don Draper in Mad Men you know what I mean like you're just that's the path yeah and you were like no Dad I'm gonna play Don Draper in Mad Men you don't understand no I'm GNA be a werewolf on that weird show that that's what it was so Joe how did you what helped you sort of at 16 you're like the last actor to get on the Carnegie melon boat why did you get on it like what happened that sort of encourage you to switch paths I just knew I don't know what I I knew I knew inside that that I was an artist I knew I was going to be an artist I was positioning myself to go into federal law enforcement and play college basketball okay wow wow um but I just knew um I I have to do something artistic or else like I that that part of me is the most important part and and I I I could never be fulfilled at any job unless I was doing that and and at that time like I said I was making my own movies and my friends who I was casting in my movies and directing in my movies they they would all say to me like you should you should act like you should do this like you should you should try for a play or something and I'm like you know no you know and the but my senior year I signed up for freshman acting and so I was this big three sport jock Captain letterman jacket wearing you know big senior who showed up with these little freshman acting kids in the ninth grade acting class you have to take ninth grade acting first and uh yeah you know and and the teacher pulled me aside after the class and said um you know what are you doing here like what are you just trying to blow off your senior year and get an easy a like what's your and I said no I think I can do this wow like what do you mean what do you mean do this and I was like no I think I could I think I could do this for a living like at least I think I could I could be on a soap opera like I think you know melrose's place it's something you know I just was like I think I I can do and she was like okay okay and then the next week she asked me to try out for the musical and I was like I don't know and I was have to sing and dance she's like just sing Happy Birthday just please please just just just come just try out please and I was all right all right all right so I went and I had a perform scenes from Oklahoma so that was the play and so she gave me scenes for the I guess the villain quote unquote you know uh Jud and uh you know I took it seriously and um saying happy birthday they had to see how I moved but I was an athlete so you know I moved pretty well and um I I just forgot all about it and then months later I was walking down the hall and sobody you know kids multiple kids were like Hey Joe great job Hey Joe congratulations and they weren't like anyone in my Social Circle yeah like who are these people like you who are these people they go to this High School to like I've never seen that person in my life like like congratulations like what about what and I'm like oh [ __ ] oh no the play oh my God oh my God so I went down to the theater department and looked on the C you know on the build building board and I was like oh my God I got cast in one of I got the villain I'm I'm one of the leads in the play oh no I'm the I'm the four-year starter on the volleyball team I started as a freshman I'm I made the Junior Olympic team when I was 16 there were colleges looking at me I'm the captain this is my Spring sport oh man was it like a time am I going down this road or am I dropping out and I'm going to go down that road that was a big choice and I said the hell with it let's go finding a good doctor is stressful right Specialists dentists even a good GP can be hard to pin down and then there's the whole song and dance of finding someone who takes your insurance that is why Zach do is here to make things a million times easier on all of us Zach dock is a free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online it's just this really intuitive smart platform that I think we should have all started using years ago I love the patient reviews in particular I I honestly get spend hours scrolling through them it makes it so much easier for me to book Someone knowing they were exactly what I'm looking for don't let the hassle of finding a doctor keep you from getting the care you need on Zach do you can filter specially for those who take your insurance are located near you and can treat whatever condition you're looking to manage it's like having a personal health con Irish in your pocket we use zdu all the time and we know you will love it too go to Zach do.com podc crush and download the Zach do app for free then find and book a toprated doctor today that's zocdoc.com podc crushed Zach duck.com podc crushed I started taking symbiotica because I had noticed my sleep had taken a bit of a turn which is not unexpected for a new parent but it's less than ideal but since taking their product I've noticed that my energy levels have been better and I'm not hitting that afternoon slump like I was before symbiotica is formulated with the highest quality ingredients out there and symbiotica is transparent about how and where they Source their ingredients to ensure that you get the best products possible which I love their formulas don't have any seed oils preservatives toxins artificial additives or natural flavors which is pretty awesome because they are some of the tastiest supplements that I've tried I have been taking their liposomal vitamin C which promotes collagen production and boosts immunity I've also been taking one called Golden mind which is really tasty it's a vanilla chai flavor um and I you can take it with whatever uh drink you like to have in the morning or whenever but I just like knock it back I just take it straight from the pouch and it's tasty even like that feel more energized alert and balanced with high quality supplements that work head over to symbiotica dcom and use code podc Crush for 20% off plus free shipping on your subscription order the stakes sound really high you know I mean it does feel like you were making a Clear Choice remind me how old were you you said 16 17 at that point I well at that point I would have been I would have been 18 that would have been right you were Senor okay senior year second semester senior year I'm going to do my first this is really late Joe are you familiar with the premise of the High School Musical series you are Troy Bolton this is his story it's amazing I'm also just try yeah I'm trying to picture you as the scene partner of a little freshman girl like were they just like fing like how I can't even imagine if you're like a freshman girl and like like senior Joe like super tall athlete is your scene partner they must have been dying yeah it it was a trip you know and and yeah we did the musical and um it was funny after the M you know it's High School Musical okay but we did it in an oour with 12200 people yeah it's a lot and afterwards I would have to come out there would be all these like little girls at the front of the stage and they want me to like sign their program the trip it was the trip and how did your dad react well um I'll say first off I I dropped out of AP Physics because I was like I'm never going to use this yeah I don't need it I was like I'm I you know I understand it all but I don't like okay let's get off the math path and um I then only applied to one School uh which was Carnegie Mill the Carnegie melon School of drama I didn't apply anywhere else I only applied to that one school which is crazy because at the time in those days there were like a thousand kids from around the world that were trying out for juliard Carnegie melon North Carolina School for the Arts you know they just kind of I me NYU Tish like specifically that school and again there's all these kids who've been acting forever who've been doing theater Productions their whole life and I've done one play and I'm like I'm gonna go there did you feel confident enough that you were like I'm gonna get in or was it like the only place that you wanted to go or or no I mean it's so hard to get in there I mean at the time that was the number one drama school in the country like if you go back to all the ratings like it was beating juliart consistently because of the kids coming out that were working professionally so it like it just had like this crazy alumni and the faculty was unbelievable and it was like you're not getting in like there's no way I I was insane looking back it's just like I don't know what the hell was wrong with me so I try out for Carnegie melon I have to do a classical monologue and a a in a contemporary monologue you have to audition to get in it doesn't really have to do with your grades or SATs you know and and you have to audition you got to get in and and um and I didn't get in you know I did not get accepted into Carnegie melon but I knew like I hadn't done it long enough like like I had there's there's gas in the tank here and and I don't know what I can do yet and I'm not ready to give this up yet so I late applied to the University of Pittsburgh which was like $460 a semester or something yeah at the state school and it was across the street from carneg melon wow so here's where the plan hatches I'm going to spend the next year just diligently hardcore auditioning for everything that I can like I'm just going to give this my absolute 100% all like my OPP I Ally focused like I'm not taking any liberal arts classes in pit I'm just taking all theater classes that's it like we're just all in I'm gonna audition for everything in the paper I'm gonna audition for everything at the school I'm like everything everything everything like just go and that was my plan I'm gonna work on two more monologues I'm going to get a better head shot I'm gonna build a resume and I'm gonna come in there a year later and see what what what I can do and that's exactly what I did it was like there was no straying from the path worked on monologues with the kids down the hall for me at the dorm at pit I go okay you guys ready okay hold on I go out in the hallway and kind of yeah bust in do my monologue and go what do you guys think you know I was like testing these pieces on a little live they they would sit in the bunk like all of them there would be like 10 people in buns and I would perform I come back out I took like hair and makeup classes I took voice and speech I I would drive three buses to go do one line in someone's student film like I didn't care like ever and I started getting cast in graduate Productions The Graduate students had come to pit to try to be cast and I started getting cast them the directors were casting me and they got pissed off so it was like they were complaining that like who's this kid he's not supposed to you know and then the year went by and one snowy day I crossed the street from pit to Carnegie melon and I lined up in the auditorium with all the other kids from around the world who were there to try out and I tried out again and I had a friend of mine Zach Quinto who I have known in high school he was at cig and he was one of the runners because you have to audition for one of the professors and then they write notes you do your two monologues they write notes put in the envelope hand it to the kid who's running and that kid then hands it to the next person that you're going to audition for the head of the apartment they handed them the envelope and and then you know I had audition again for the head of the department and then the head of the department started talking to me I was like oh wow this is like when they talk to you it means that they they care they they've got to get through all these other people you talk me for a while and I left and Zach Quinto was like wow you're in there for a while I'm like yeah I go does that does that what does that mean and he goes hold on he pulls out the notes and he's like they want you to audition for the third person they want you to go see the third teacher the only time happens is when they want somebody at the school they want to make sure that they want to say take a look at this kid I want him and he looked and and so I was like okay so I need to stay he's like yeah you're gonna do it one more time I went okay so I went in and did it for the third Professor he talked to me again he just sat on top of the piano and was like so let's talk you know like okay I came out Zach got the envelope he goes hold on opens it up and goes he goes I'll see you in August oh oh my god wow wow shout out to Z that is incredible I also feel like it says so much about your resolve because especially before social media I feel like there's so much in our culture telling kids like you can't really be an actor like it's too hard the the pool is so small which is which is true yeah which is true but I feel like it already takes so much resolve to even get to that point where you're auditioning for one of the best schools in the country and then on top of that to get rejected and then just be like to double down and like no it's happening it's it says so much about you it's really cool well you know I think maybe that's the sports mentality is like you fail you get your ass kicked you get back up and and like you're not done yet like you you're not done did you do everything you possibly could and you know here's the thing you know regardless of what my dad ever thought about my choice of vocation coming out of the gate yeah what I did learn from him was discipline so so you know I kind of got that understanding from my mom and that kind of like you know unconditional like I'm going to support whatever it is that you want to do yeah um and from my dad I got discipline and if you're going to do something then you have to do the best you have to be the best at it or at least the best that you can be and if you can you know with all the if you have all the tal you know all the talent in the world is going to lose out to somebody who's so hungry and wants it and on that day that's what happened now I didn't know if I had any Talent or not I mean people were certainly saying that I did but that's not for me to judge you know all I had to do was just work as hard as I could and give myself like a full opportunity and I think a lot of people unfortunately that's the trick is people don't give themselves a full opportunity you know they they they do it half ass and then when they get the no it's it just confirms everything they thought about themselves totally true and you have to be like I was willing to fall flat on my face I didn't apply anywhere else like there was no plan B like God knows what I would have done I wouldn't I the guidance couns player at pit was like called me into his office and was like I noticed you're taking all theater classes as a freshman you're gonna be done like you're gonna be taking Math Science and History for the rest of your time here and I said I'm not going to be here past this year he was like what he's like who are you and I was like yeah I was so crazy and I and I and I I just I never had a plan B and I think that was probably the best thing that I had going for me but also again like I learned it's okay if you fail yeah like it's okay you know but did you try your best and I couldn't I couldn't couldn't I had restless nights that whole year until I tried out again I think that's a really good practical thing that people can take away is just the qu just asking yourself the question did I do everything I could possibly do everything so one thing we actually do here a lot is we talk about we always like ask every guest is there an awkward story you have from those middle school or high school years and then also like First Love First heartbreak kind of stuff the awkwardness most people come in here with like a really rich vein of like super awkward stories except for we've only had one guest really Ed spers will go down in history as the one who didn't have any awkward stories but I don't believe that yeah no we we did discover there was something but I mean so was there a point where you were racked with insecurity and you had to uh I don't know like just just overcome it yeah so you know in fifth grade you know I was the captain of the basketball team I was like the leading score leading rebound and I thought going into sixth grade well it's just going to continue and in sixth grade I was I had a horrible start to the year I was terrible I was missing every shot I took easy little bunnies under the hoop and basketball like I just was and so the coach you know in conjunction with my father they St my ass on the bench and they bench me so this big head and shoulders taller than all the other kids was sitting there on the bench and some other kid who was younger than me grade below got the start over me when I was Mr Big MVP of the year before yeah and you know they started holding me after school after after practice for like an hour hour to shoot you know 100 shots right hand 100 shots left hand 100 100 that run it like drilling me and I hated it and you know looking back now I didn't know it then but it was like my ego just got smashed and you get frustrated you want to punch something you feel like you're G to cry and put your fist through the window on the drop home I was mad at my dad I was mad at the coach and and you know what happened was whatever was wrong with me worked itself out and I started playing better and then obviously you know they put me back into the starting lineup because what are we you know what we gonna do he's you know's and um and then the end of that year we won a a tournament like we played against the big all the big townships the township I lived in we played against all the public school kids and we're this little catholic school you know there's like nine kids on the team and you know like and and we beat the crap out of all the public school teams it was w i mean it sounds stupid because it's like sixth grade but it was like it was a huge deal for us to beat them and it had to do with me realizing that if I was going to be good at something I couldn't just Coast I couldn't just Coast on how tall I was I couldn't just Coast on some sort of perceived gift that I was given and not develop that it had to be the gift plus the work and um and so that that was and then they gave me you know most improved player of the year you know which is like you know I want MVP goddamn it you know but it was one of those things where you know you realize you have you got to put in the work and so you had your midlife crisis in sixth grade basically you you had this like really condensed Arc yeah but but it but but you can see that like the seeds were planted and that lesson was learned so that when I got to high school when I got to nth grade again I was the by nth grade I knew how to work I knew you know and I had a great work ethic and I worked harder than all the other kids and that's why I was always the captain you know just just you know I was there early left late worked hard led the kids good example and um I was the leading scorer leading rebounder and the coaches put on notes they gave you kind of like an exit interview with your notes of what you could work on I was like what are they gonna say yeah I did everything you know come on and it was like lack upper body strength I was so pissed off yeah and then the football team started making you know we were training as football players and I we had to do a pull-up test and a dip test you know you had to get up everybody Lin the hallway and everybody one by one had to get up and do as many dips as they could as many pull-ups as they could I'm the captain of the team got this great couldn't do one of each so you were right and I was Furious and embarrassed and you know again like failure and um so that began a lifelong Quest I I then found there was a high school history a history teacher at the high school who the rumor was he used to train bodybuilders in the 1970s and so I approached him and said hey um you know kind of like Dan laruso asking Mr Miyagi you know in the karate kit to train him and I was like I heard you train bodybuilders like I want you to train me and he was like what you know and I was like who told you that you know and I was like is it true because I hurt you know he's like he just kept blowing me off yeah and then finally he agreed to let me said come over on Monday night at 7:30 whatever so I went over there all dress the work out and he just sat me down in a chair and for an hour and a half lectured me on how the Body Works he had all these anatomy books this is what happens when you train this is how you damage the muscles Scar Tissue rebuilds it that's how you get stronger you need to change your diet you need to eat protein in order to build muscle you need to do this you need to do that it was just like this seminar and I'm just looking at the clock go when are we going to lift man and um at the end of this hour and a half long seminar he was like all right we're done and I was like what what what happens now and he's like I'm not going to teach somebody all of this stuff that I know unless I know that they're fully in I'm not gonna waste my time they waste my time it's like I'm not gonna waste your time he's like will you do every single thing that I tell you to do no questions that and I said all right yes yes okay show up here on Wednesday at 7:30 and we'll start wow it really is like the Karate Kid that so funny and he trained me for years and then he trained me through college he trained me when I was getting ready to come to La after Carnegie melon like he was this really strong posit POS you know male figure for me that's awesome you know and I worked so hard for that guy I just wanted that like great job great job you did great back in the day I think parents and coaches and parents and teachers used to really really work together in terms of you're allowed to yell at my kid you're allowed to rep reprimand my kid when he's doing something wrong you're allowed to help contribute to my kid growing rather than I think you know from what I understand there's a lot of like kind of the reverse of that which is parents saying to teachers you're not allowed to talk to my kid that way you're not allowed to you know the teachers and coaches used to help to raise the kids as well it was like smaller Community Based I think it was just yeah I mean it's yeah everybody was kind of in it and they they were like you know what does the kid need and the kid could be amazing you know and and and we need to unlock his potential you know we definitely want to talk about your career but I think our listeners would be very upset if we didn't ask you the classic question about your first love and your first heartbreak if you're willing to share oh boy um first love boy I mean there was like a first girlfriend in sixth grade there was just like first kiss you know first kiss you know but that was it you know I was dating by my parents too young to go to the movies with her on a date so that wasn't going to happen yeah and so when that happened she broke up with me a you know cuz it's like whoa you can't go out with us it's like well no yeah not allow and was like oh okay I guess you know um but that was first kiss did that make you feel any type of way towards your parents like were you upset with them of course no of course yeah of course I was I was like you know you really invested it because sometimes at that age you know you feel your feelings are are bigger than you and you and you kind of feel like this is the first and last and only time you're ever going to feel it did were did you have that kind of epic sort of investment in it or were you like well this is just happening no you know I think with me I mean the coke bottle glasses the ears that stuck out the skinny physique the you know I just knew someday this is all going to get fixed and it's there's going to be a better life for you and it's not right now and and even in high school it's like it's it's you're G to get out of this place you're G to get to reinvent yourself and start over yeah and you know those girls who looked at you like you were this like coke bottle glasses wearing nerd they're going to see you with something different you know and so I was always like I just and I also was like the oldest Soul you were ever going to meet packed into a 12-year-old's body so it was like like I'm like an 80 I was like an 80y old man when I was born so it was like I just need to get out of here and go hang out with some adults yeah so I didn't really take it that way you know I mean it was more like embarrassment over the fact that like some of the other kids were allowed to go to the movies with a girl and it was like I was te you know I wasn't ready yet um so I think I was more along maybe like embarrassment yeah but um but you know it just was like ah yeah we're we're gonna we're gonna be fine you're gonna be okay you I wasn't like you're gonna be okay kid but I was like listen we're gonna we're gonna table this for now we're gonna get back to it later yeah yeah let's talk about your career I mean so as far as I can tell coming out of Carnegie what what what then happened did you go to La yeah the whole plan was to go to LA from the time that I even auditioned there um I wanted to become a smart actor who was studying again doing it the right way discipline you know I wanted to have an education as an actor be a really smart actor the way that people people that I looked up to at that time where Edward Norton went to Yale you know you have Gary Oldman you know that it's that era so um you have like a lot of the actors that came out by the actor studio in the 70s and the 80s the Theos the Pinos the great the great Italians and I just thought well I want to be like them so I'm going to go get an education in classical theater and do this right and but but also with the intent of like starring in Fight Club with David Fincher you know what like I just wanted to be like the guy who could do all of the popcorn movie stuff but intelligently and so so um Carnegie melon for for the kids that make it through all four years to the program you get to do you get to perform in these showcases and the showcases are then it's like the NFL combine like every manager agent casing director they all come at the time they would all come to see all the kids from juli art Carnegie Tish yeah yeah Carina they will come to see them because they were going to then start signing them sending them out and and out of those I got my choice of agent my choice of manager I had I got offered a a like a sixf figure TV holding deal by Warner Brothers TV they wanted to start developing shows around me wow um and at the time this is 2000 it's different than it is now there was a stigma like there was a line like you had to choose TV or film one that was it and nobody did American commercials that was you know it was it was just very very separate uh nobody was hosting game shows like that's for sure you know um but it's all different now yeah but at the time you had to choose and I said no to that TV holding deal I said and and I said no I'm going to do film and that week I was brought into audition for the role of Peter Parker and Spider-Man which I was never goingon to get because I'm completely wrong for it but the casting director really loved me and wanted me to she said you know you were really great as Peter Parker but you're never get this role and I said right and she said but there's this other role that's right for you and I said oh Flash and she said right Flash and I go great and I had wear wearing glasses for my Peter Parker audition I took them off and I had a button down I unbutton the button down had a tank top on and they were like holy [ __ ] where did this man come from and she's like fishing around she goes hold on let me go get the sides let me go get the script sides for you to read and I go I'm already off book what and I go I I was hoping you were going to say this and I'm ready wow and she's like okay yeah and so you know we did the scene a couple times and she was like she just sat there and looked at me and said okay I want you to meet Sam Ry how long are you in town and I said uh moved here I'm changing my life I'm here yeah I was like CU I was there for the showcases so I'm like driving a wrestle car around sleeping on some's couch and I'm like how long do you need me here and she's like um what's a good number to call you you know and she wound up going out she got me $500 to screen test all of the Spider-Man candidates who were screen testing for the role of Peter Parker I got to do a scene with them at Splash in front of St Sam Ry on a sound stage with hair and makeup costume film full crew for the entire day and Sam got to see me were and how did you feel that day were you just like thrilled were you nervous what was sort of oh I was like we got to to work let's go like this is like let's let's let's do this let's like we're in the scene like you know I mean I've got you know what's my resume a bunch of like College theater projects I'm on this like what's going to be the biggest movie of all time yeah yeah yeah I mean it really was yeah you know and I'm testing with like James Franco who I had just seen who just won the Golden Globe for James Dean wow right you know like like we're or was he or no maybe he was shooting it he hadn't won it yet he was shooting it so he looked like James St that's right and like Scott Speedman I know who he was you know so I'm like and I'm just like let's go let's let's get in there let's yeah you know and um Sam took a ling to me and eventually I got cast eventually there was a lot of bumps in that road but but I want up getting cast wow and that was your first movie was like the MCU sort of like like has Chang before the MCU like no it's definitely before I mean that did you have a sense then of what cuz I mean I recall seeing that Spider-Man in theaters I'm a little bit younger than you I was like you know I was definitely at the age where it just was like oh you could feel this shift that something was happening in the you know the modern movieo mythology was like there's something big happening that this is being done this way did you did you feel that then and did could you feel it on set that you know what I mean cuz it wasn't the MCU hadn't been established but it was still marveled and it was like this is huge well listen you know they had John dyra on set who did all the effects for Star Wars like you knew this wasn't going to be like some Roger Corman movie you know what I mean like this was this was the real deal and they were putting you know hundreds of millions of dollars into this thing and Sam R is the unbel you know but also like you said like there was a shift because up to that point you have to understand that there wasn't a superhero boom superhero movies only were done when unbelievable creative artists came in and had some sort of angle right so you you have to that point you have it was basically Batman right I'm trying to think of the other ones you Tim Burton's Batman which then kind of turned into the Joel shoem marer but like let's just stick with Tim Burton's Batman's you have the crow right right dark black leather then you have Blade Dark so they were much more nich spawn dark black leather you have X-Men one dark black leather like like there was nothing colorful so the fact that they were going to go with the Green Goblin in this green suit and they were going to have the red and blue bright Spider-Man costume and that it was going to take place in high school yeah and really be about like puberty yeah and all of those changes and being a nerd and falling you know so it was um it was a complete departure wow that's so cool so then you you know you had made made a decision no television you're going to do movies but then you end up on True Blood sort of what is the transition and was there a telen Nolla translated into English also in the mix American ays something yeah yeah but uh you know the thing about by the time true blade came along you're talking about the Golden Era of cable so HBO wasn't HBO sorry it was HBO you know so you know the thing I will say is that in 2000 when I got out of drama school and I said no to TV there was one season of The Sopranos that had come up so there was this rumbling about this show that was long form narrative that was like as good as any movie and you were starting to hear Rumblings of that but it hadn't caught on but then by the time True Blood comes along you've had Deadwood Rome the wire sex of the city yeah you know I mean like like Carnival like unbelievable HBO is truly in a different League it really carnival by the way is a is a is an underrated unsung that is one of my favorite television actually just cinematic experiences ever and then you also had band brothers so like this is an era where HBO was starting to do what streamers are now doing but like two decades before you know they were just making B basically making season long films and they were doing it in a very special way and they were they were making it better they like those shows were better than what was going on in film at the time yeah yeah so and and also they were so smart in that they understood to to hire a creative a great showrunner and then get out of the way and don't note that person to death and just let their Creative Vision wind up on screen and so yeah you get six feet under like yeah with no notes you get Ro you know you get the wire and then of course you get you get you get True Blood and and there were no notes coming from the network on True Blood wow it was it was what you see was what you got and what you got was this really wild crazy intelligent project and um and and one that I think resonated and started all sorts of like social conversations that that kind of push the culture forward like you know marriage equality was not on the table prior to True blood's conversation about it so they used vampires as this kind of Trojan Horse into this conversation about equality and racism in the South W CU oh vampires so we can we can talk about it as much as we want and and it really allowed I think the culture to go further at that time so it was a really important show and um and we all were treated like rockstars obviously because you know the nature of the show I mean people were watching us do Insane things to each other you know on that yeah I can I can imagine if there were notes from HB they're like well they're already naked so no we're good you got it yeah and but but what's funny about True Blood was you know we were all really really overqualified well I should say the material was deceptively tricky because it was kind of like written in like like Hennessy Williams it was very operatic at times yeah but um you know but it's all theater kids it's like people with Tony's and Oscars and you know Mike McMillan and I were the Carnegie melan kids then there were the there was rotina and Nelson were the juliard kids then Chris Bower was the yalee then you get West End of London then you get this International cash you got Skarsgard from Sweden you a lawyer from uh from England you know so you had like an Anna obviously from Canada by way of New Zealand New Zealand by way of Canada um you know so it was just like like like I said it was like really really intelligent trained actors you know um trained the way that I was it was like my my whole plan worked in that moment Joe tell us about sort of you're directing now you're hosting a game show you're in a movie with Vince V sort of what's Happening Now what are you excited about yeah I mean I'm excited about all those things you know I I I mean I love shooting dealer No Deal Island yeah tell us about that you're doing that in the jungle I I heard that you're like killing all the Scorpions and spiders that are coming after people is this true yeah I was like pest control on the island like you know and then there's a l of giant Jung B creature coming out that I have to go take out but also like you know anybody who watched this last episode this week you know there was a big huge screaming match that was kind of edited down from its like 20 minute length wow um but it but like a giant you know 150 foot 300y old jungle tree crashes to the ground in the middle of the screaming match so you're kind of like that's that's like some jungle [ __ ] right there you know yeah like there's some sort of you know mother Earth we are all one that was like Hey everybody shut up shut up and stop screaming and um so I was kind of nervous to to kill some of these animal because they're not they're not little tiny ants and things like that it's like a spider that big you know like you know that big moving across the floor oh my go You' got big Scorpions crawling out of your shoes and big you know huge jungle bee flies that's a lot that's a lot I've got to take them all out I got bit by a fire ant in the abdomen and while we were shooting actually like episode three you know I got bit and it felt like somebody shot me with something oh my gosh oh my God and then they were all over me um so yeah I I was pest control but I also had to like have talked with the jungle Gods while I was doing all of this extermination I was like because I had to like beg for forgiveness because like I can't let this giant spider crawl towards bubbles my little dog while she's in her play yeah I can't I'm I'm I'm a dad I'm I'm a dog Dad I'm a Chihuahua Dad I can't let this happen I have feel like like I'm sorry but your spider is in the wrong place at the wrong time yeah I cannot let it get near my little dog I God forbid so I'm gonna take this life and I hope that you forgive me for that you know if I was having all these conversations while I was you killing everything that I could find wow what did you love the most about being in the jungle um what I love most about being I mean working with the people that I got to work with and I know that sounds like cheesy but like I got to work with the Geniuses of the reality competition style docu series World um you know the Creator Fear Factor Matt Coit our showrunner Sarah hle Jackson who ran uh who's head of the story team for Big Brother for years the whole crew was survivors crew that was up from Australia you know like wow everybody knew what they were doing and it was just so great to be amongst people who were so obsessed with this weird thing that I was also obsessed with the show and we just got the bubble up for you know three and a half weeks and just just nothing but story eat breathe sleep who hates who who's doing what where are we putting the cameras what's up next how do I te this up great great great okay great you're over there I'm over here great you know it was just I I love that level of immersion and uh you know like I said with smart people who are that obsessed yeah what's your favorite game show other than dealer No Deal I mean I've watched almost every episode of Survivor wow yeah that's a tall order because there's so many yeah yeah I know well like when I'm on set somewhere you know and I'm I'm spending four and a half months shooting an AMC Series in Ireland or you know I'm over here for two months in New Jersey shooting this thing any free time that I have I keep you know it's me the dog in a hotel room yeah yeah and I'll just you know come back from a hard day of work go to the gym come back kick my feet up and brush my teeth and watching survivors and I'll just Frank through episodes until I fall asleep or you know I'm hanging out in my trailer I'm waiting around yeah it's great on my phone I can just put on that episode of Survivor yeah I love that Joe someone should do celebrity Survivor and you'll win it like man I have a I I have a plan you know I I really I have I've thought it I've thought it through yeah so you're not going to pitch us yet I get it's clearly going to happen tell you what it is I mean just tell us the release date and we'll wait for itas when when you're my side and you know athletic you like you just there's only one way you can win you have to help them get F all the challenges so we can get all the snorkeling gear like you have to be you're you in your tribe they're not going to cut you they want you around so they can beat the other team and get amenities but once the merge happens they're going to want to get rid of you so you have to win immunity you just have to win out the whole way and I would get I was talking to Tiger Woods's so Survivor wanted me on the show years ago I'll just say that oh that makes sense yeah that's like they W yeah and I talked to Tiger Woods's uh eye doctor and I was going to get corrective eye surgery so that I didn't have to wear contacts they give you Solution on the show but I didn't care and then I met a yogi who was gonna get me off of solid foods so I didn't need to eat solid food anymore so I was out there starving wouldn't okay yeah four Survivor I was missing the Survivor like why would you stop eating solid food Survivor Survivor yeah yeah yeah yeah wow wow anyway yeah but incredible Joe you you do a lot of advocacy work with sort of veterans animal welfare and just curious kind of what motivates you there what are you passionate about well I'm on the I'm On The Board of Trustees at Pittsburgh Children's Hospital so that's like my main charity and um I just love kids um I feel bad for kids that have to go through really difficult struggles that don't get to be kids uh they have to grow up too soon and a lot of times you know the kids are being taken care of but you know it it's parents also that really have a hard time you know um and and a lot of times can't be with kids while they're in the hospital they have to be out working and making money to support and um and and that's really difficult and and I think that there's there's an amount of guilt that the parents feel about that and um the kids are alone you know and so piss Children's Hospital is like really amazing they monitor hospitals all around the world at lowering infant mortality rates and you know um managing posttop care because a lot of times like a surgery can be successful but then in in some third world country like they'll lose kids posttop and and can't Target the signals or or pred like predictive measures and so P Children's Hospitals created like like you know Parts like computerized carts that actually help Monitor and go back to a main frame with American doctors that can kind of watch you know and monitor for the signs that something's going sideways and so you know I just really you know wanted to stay connected to my roots and I love Pittsburgh and and like I said I love kids and and so I do a lot of fundraising and advocacy especially to raise money for parents to try to alleviate the financial pressure so that they can actually spend some with the kids and be there with them and um haven't been in a lot of things that are kid-friendly but when I am I try to bring them back to the hospital do fun things with the kids sometimes they don't know who I am and I'm like your mom knows who I am mom's over there at the cor she does uh dad wants to punch me in the face great but he can't reach I'm out of there too quick yeah no um but no I um you know it's uh so so yeah so a lot of what I do has to do with them and and bringing attention back to them but but yeah like I you know I adopted my little dog here who's still sleeping on my yeah man it's like she's on conscious she's heard all these stories before she like wrap it up yeah let's go take a nap come on Joe do you uh just on that note of like being so passionate about children do you have children in your life who you get to be like a positive figure for them like maybe not parental but just like a mentor yeah I mean um you know yeah I have a a nephew who um you know like I was a a really I was I was I was a a strong male figure for him um in the early years of his life and um you know uh uh so you know I I definitely was took that seriously and and and and was there for him and wanted to be there for him in every way that I could um my brother had my brother I have two nieces my brother has has two girls and uh you know they're super cute and um you know so I'm like the fun Uncle you know with them and you know good uh goofing around and trying to make them laugh all the time and uh you know so so yeah I mean and um you know but obviously like you know it's something that's definitely on the docket you know at some point so um you know you mean to have kids yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah there was it was never uh that was never not on the table you know at every stage of life that was always you know um that was always something that was always talked about always you know that was always on the Forefront you know any serious relationship that I gone into it was always like you know I mean it wasn't like first date talk you know you like or very it was one of the first conversations to have which just like are you you know are you someone that wants that if you don't then that's okay you know um I just want to know what this is because you know i' I've always wanted to be a father I've always I have like big dad energy say um you do I think I have a lot to to give in that department and um and then also you know I come from in my family tree there's a lot of survivors and you know we're talking Armenian Genocide survivors we're talking you know African slaves who went through unspeakable difficulties you know I mean the eradication of the Armenian people is absolutely insane and like for another conversation but like you know for they never gave up you know none of them and and and you know to to be sitting where I'm at right now on the shoulders of what my ancestors went through just to survive and not give up in the face of losing every single person that they loved just to survive so that their children so that they could have a child that survived and then survive long enough to have you know my mom and then me and you know there's there's um I just think that there's in The Meta there's there's a real importance to that for me um to kind of carry on their legacy uh and and so you know let alone from the fact that like yeah like I um I'm I really am looking forward to that chapter in life yeah yeah that's exciting that we we didn't get into it we didn't have time but your family history is insane it's like you someone needs to make a film about it you need to make a film about it it needs to happen I've had conversations for sure it's coming out in 2029 I think I I think if I can if I'm reading Joe well enough right now probably before then something some I've been trying to figure out the right way to tell that story or tell all of those stories and and how to or at least like kind of the first incarnation of all of that yeah and um and and so yeah before 2029 for sure yeah for sure yeah it's a precious precious story you have to find the right way to tell it I guess Joe do you want to just summarize for listeners what sort of what you're alluding to because there you did an episode of Finding Your Roots and yeah the show Finding Your Roots discovered that there was uh you know a paternity issue very nearby to me and my family tree my grandfather was technically was not my biological grandfather it was it was another another man and through some work and reaching out and making my ancestry.com profile public making my 23 and Me profile public and then fishing I started fishing to people who are remotely related by marriage or blood or distance on the family tree over the past two years I've been getting bites and I've been getting information I've been getting legal documents and then lo and behold um like family members wow and who have photos who have evidence and so and then because of the genetics they're they're proximity to me we've been able to to really say with 100% certainty who my great who my grandfather was that then blows open this entire lineage and then on the other side you know I know that I'm Croatian German and Armenian on my other side we never know who the German was a lot of the Armenian information was lost to a genocide and though the show Finding Your Ruth then got a ping on the German side and we wound up finding out who my great-grandfather was on the German side who was stationed in you know Armenia what became turkey post World War I he was stationed in this camp that my grandmother who was a survivor of the genocide who lost all of her children her husband her Village everyone and was shot left for dead wound up in this camp and impregnated by this German officer wow we they found out who he was his name his children his lineage I have ancestors that fought Napoleon uh we can go all the way back to the 1300s and the kingdom of verber like it just all of it sudden I went from having this much family treat to that wow and uh and so it's still in progress and and there like I said there was you know there were African slaves you know one of which was brought over from Africa that joined the Continental Army and fought the British in the revolution it was like a war hero and granted a monument and you know like it's just Insanity that I had no idea that existed that now I you know I've got sacks of books that's high and I'm reading and trying to devour all of this information and understand what I am where you know I never knew what I was I just knew I didn't look like anybody in my family and when you put me in a lineup with the cast of of so pratos I didn't really look as Italian as they did yeah uh and so I'm all these other things and you know the host of the show Henry Lewis Gates Jr turned to me at the end and just said um Joe you are America yeah it is really incredible you're so mixed that is incredible we have a final question we ask every guest Joe if you could go back to your 12-year-old self what would you do what would you say man H stick to the plan what would I say at 12 I would say um do not feel bad about following the Muse and do whatever you have to do to clear your space out to continue creating in that way do not feel bad about that like you know you're you're you're a Storyteller at heart just continue developing like just go that that's what I would have said because I think I just I was so torn at that age and felt so guilty about skipping my work to do it and you know doing something I shouldn't have been doing that was going to go nowhere yeah um come to find out it it was that that was actually all that side questing was actually the main quest oh that's really cool yeah that's so great love that Joe you've been such a delight what a Storyteller yeah man thank you so much for coming on yeah we're so grateful you are a delight thank you thank you thank you you can keep up with Joe manganelo on Instagram at Joe manganello we are so excited that you can now listen to podc Crush ad free on Amazon music in fact you can listen to any episode of pod Crush ad free right now on Amazon music with an Amazon Prime [Music] [Music] membership when he went into like werewolf mode I was like I know wa I know yeah it was crazy yeah we have to I feel like his body changed like like he got bigger and he got more wolfy he did he got wolfy pen you had a perfect chance to say I WF you Joe didn't occur to me but that would have been great opportunity that would have been holy crap well we can put that on social media we wolf we wolf Joe yeah Joe yeah that's the joke Sophie [Laughter]