Wrigleyville Nation Ep 358 - Guest: Kyle Stanley, Cubs Bullpen Status, Schedule Analysis, News, & Mo

you're listening to the Wrigleyville Nation Podcast season TI holders and lifelong fans with neighborhood ties discuss Cubs news and neighborhood happenings here's your hosts Jeremy and [Music] Pat hello and welcome to the Wrigleyville Nation Podcast this is episode 3 58 of the podcast my name is Jeremy deer and I'll be your host I'm joined as always by my co-host he's my cousin and he's high at top Wrigleyville tonight how's it going Pat it's going well Jeremy thanks it's a beautiful cool night in Chicago would be a sure is would be a great night to see a Cubs game but they are out of town uh off day and uh hopefully they're still in town Jeremy they were here yesterday and they're coming back tomorrow so don't want to get too far our field that's true so no uh no games to be played I was out of town I just got back into town um and I was uh pleasantly surprised by uh by this weather but uh uh our friends at uh Travis Matthew gave me a nice quarter zip with a Cubs logo I didn't even know they made Cubs gear gave us a nice quarter zip and uh this was perfect weather for it I will post a photo of it on our social media uh Wrigleyville on Instagram and X I'm going to post a picture of it because uh I haven't had good quality Cubs gear in a long time so I was very happy this is not Fanatics it's a real company so uh uh very generous of them to uh to send that our way and support our podcast that way so uh uh we will post a picture that highly recommend so especially on a night like this and we've got a lot of Cubs news to talk about we'll talk about the week that was we'll preview the week that will be and the upcoming schedule we'll talk about what that means for a Cub's potential playoff push and to help us unpack all the news of the week preview all the games ahead First Time guest on the show uh you know him from his YouTube channel the setup man Kyle Stanley thanks for taking time out to talk Cubs with us tonight yeah I mean talking Cubs versus helping unpack is two different things so like if you're looking for help I don't I don't know how much help I'm going to be but but we'll have fun talking about the Cubs excellent glad to have you on and uh as we uh as we do anytime we have someone brand new to the podcast we love to uh hear a little bit about your origin story uh how did you become a Cubs fan man I'm I'm in Fresno California that's where I was born and raised um and I was a card collector when I was a kid you know I did the the magic cards the Pokemon cards all the the dorky stuff and then my friend introduced me to baseball cards and my favorite card and this was 1999 I missed 98 by one year so I was 11 years old collecting cards griffy Maguire Sosa those were my favorite cards but you could only watch one of those guys on national television and that was Sammy Sosa so uh started off you know watching all the games on WGN didn't care at all about who the other guys were uh but then as you continue to watch and you hear chip Cary and his enthusiasm and you start like kind of pulling for the team and before you know it you know a baseball card collector I wanted to know all the guys stats I want to know everything and just fell in love and unfortunately to this day at 37 years old I still have the same love so here I am well that's uh that's always great to hear it it's always an it's a it's a funny story how common the reach of WGN is for making Cubs fans and what a difference that's going to be a generation from now where yeah it's a little scary isn't it all people around the country who join Cub fandom through WGN yeah watch any team at any time so it's like now you'll see who the the real watchable teams are because you're not being Force F either the Braves the Cubs or your local team and we will uh we will talk a little bit about the Braves and their bad luck coming up but uh first let's talk about where the Cubs are since last we podcasted last time we podcasted Pat We predicted I believe a three and three week for the Cubs uh none of us envisioned it in this way uh where the Cubs went two and four being swept by the Guardians and only winning two of three against the Blue Jays bat almost a three and three week though they would have back doored it for sure uh but of course you have to score a run to win a game new rule and uh and that hurt him again on Sunday unfortunately but yeah you know the rest of the National League had kind of a bad week too so you look at the standings and you're like well you know they we could have floated through with three and three two and four is not as good obviously by one uh just one more game they got to pick up some other time uh but they are still in this kind of weird limbo status now that they're officially done with teams that might be decent for a while and they get 15 games in a row against teams that are pretty bad mediocre um hopefully they can pick it up a little bit because certainly three and three two and four isn't going to get you very far when you've got 37 games left they gotta start to start to do better I think Fair yeah Kyle uh playing a good Cleveland team followed by a bad Blue Jays team uh really puts in perspective while the the schedule is soft uh the playing a real team like Cleveland uh they they had a chance in a couple of those games but uh it they still seemed a bit outmatched yeah I mean first of all like I will say I did not realize just how good class was like you know when over the the off season when we were talking about like oh is CL like a target a trade Target for the Cubs and you saw kind of just the average season that he had and the price tag I was like no don't go for him after seeing him I'm like I would ship out some serious prospects for that guy because I mean good Lord that that was like as soon as he came in it was just that second the first game I was like okay maybe we've got a shot one down one run that second game when he came in I was like there's no shot like that feels like a 10-run deficit and that just shows you like the difference between the Cubs and an actual good team right is we're wishing ourselves and hoping our elves into some Series wins meanwhile teams with good closers clutch hitting and consistent starting pitching which the Cubs have had consistent starting pitching most of the year but especially the clutch hitting and the back of the bullpen just like it's it's a different league right it's a different league and you know one thing that you just wonder about though and we can play the what if game all day long but if that called strike three in the fourth inning in the first game from show demaga was called not only do I believe that the Cubs win that game I do think that they end up winning game two as well I think it's that big of momentum and and you can't you can't measure that right but I do think at least they win that first game and then you talk about coming out with at least a three and three week like you guys had predicted but now it's tough now it's going to be almost impossible and then win the World Series maybe even um in Cleveland who knows it's happened before uh yeah I think you know you you you mentioned Class A and and it kind of sort of uh pours salt on the wounds which is one of the Cubs a killes heels this year has been the closer job in position they don't really have a closer they've had a a number of people try to fill the role the Alay injury well ineffectiveness followed by injury now out for quite a while set them back but they didn't have a great plan B obviously uh as as he's now referred to heart attack Hector sort of the opposite of a Class A he will load the bases and then it's just you know we'll see what happens right at that point sometimes he gets out of it sometimes he doesn't uh it's almost amazing I was looking at the Cubs record in one-run games because I hear a lot of criticism of Craig Council for well why don't you know you supposed to come in here and win the close games you know and they're not doing that and and their record in one-run games this year is 19 and 26 so that's seven games under 500 which for a team that's what three games under 500 I guess it's a little bit worse but it feels like he has a real uh real liability there in that he doesn't actually have a closer so it's kind of hard to win close games without a closer Cubs play a lot of them uh one run games that is and uh and it really it's almost like and we talked about this I think last week or the week before Jeremy where if the Cubs are going to make this run in these last 37 games assuming they're not blowing teams out which they haven't had a propensity for doing much this year every one of these games is going to come down he one of these nailbiter situations where you're trying to figure out well who's going to come in in the ninth inning and you know maybe it'll be Tyson Miller who knows maybe Lopez will do it again maybe maybe they're going to go back to nerys every time I mean you just don't know right because they don't have anything solidified there and then you watch a team like uh the guardians or even the Brewers in our own division frankly and you see oh Devon Williams is back great like no one can hit him you know it's like I've played we played this game before first it was hater now it's it's like then Williams it's like these guys you know that probably helped Council a little bit too when he when he had a closer like those guys and it does it does really kind of reemphasize especially when you construct a lineup in a team like Jed Hoyer has done that was never meant to dominate the league but was always meant to kind of be in games and be around the edges and kind of like you know stay in contention but those teams play close games and they require at least the back end of the ball Bullpen probably a little bit more consistency and help than this team has has managed to provide we saw it last year in the first half of the year just like in the first half of this year where the bullpen by the time they figured out you know what was going on they'd blown a lot of games in the bullpen and that's and that's the crazy thing too right Pat I mean like this was a 24th in the league Bullpen right around June 26 and then since June 27th they're the best bullpen in baseball they're fifth in erra now and you look at that and you say if you had told me that the Cubs Bullpen was fifth in erra by August 19th of 2024 I would be like a and a top what are they top six starter ER I be like great I mean with the offense we had last year that is a division leading team we're not even 500 because of just how many Peaks and valleys how how low The Valleys have been and how high that the Peaks haven't been that high what we had I think our longest winning of the year was five games am I am I right on that and it can be deceptive too right because for example yesterday imaga gives up one run in what five or six Innings and the bullpen comes in and pitches three or four scoreless Innings yay great Bullpen effort right scoreless for three or four Innings but they lose one to nothing like so I mean it's it's nice that they did that it lowers the team ra but on the other hand it didn't really do anything for the bottom line and so when you look back people like to use that I don't know if it was it was you Kyle or somebody else I saw on Twitter today people like to use that June 27th for some reason because that was like the worst point of the bullpen for the year that was the that was the day that Tyson Miller was also traded to the Cubs by the way yes yeah and since then you know they've had this big uptick right if you want to use the if you want to go from the worst period to the best and cubs fans tend to do this a lot um and but then you look at how the Cubs have done in the eighth inning or later when they've either been tied or or uh you know up by one run uh and their record is they they've blown just as many saves as they've protected since then that part of it hasn't changed right that that kind of that Niche like when the game's on the line late in a game in a close game how's the bullpen doing versus just sort of the overall Bullpen structure and and I think that's a Nuance that needs to be it's the kind of thing where anybody who watches Cubs games can tell you like oh you know like the ER is best in the league in the bullpen but there's also the the eye test right like hm yeah it feels like they're really good in the sixth inning but like in the ninth inning of a close game does anybody really say yeah this is the best bullpit in the league no no and and that's what I was GNA ask you was like you know so Saturday Jorge Lopez came in and he closed and I thought that was the right call not just because nerys had 30 something pitches the day before I think Jorge Lopez is the most obvious yeah yeah exactly I think J Lopez is the only guy but even then you look like Jorge Lopez and say like yeah I mean he is locked down and I I think he's I think he's gotten pretty lucky to get to where his erra is under one as a cub he's done extremely well but you mentioned it test it's like yeah he's got good stuff on Saturday after giving up the Home Run I lost track I was gonna say I was at the game and I lost track of his first pitch because it went so far I couldn't like high did that thing go like it was but but then you know the the the fallowing three batteries he he was lights out which is like okay if you can do that again let's try that and and but the problem I think is I'm I think that that was a situational thing and I think tomorrow if the Cubs have a one-run lead in the ninth inning you're gonna see nerys out there that's that's truly what I think because I don't know why Council does it I don't know if he feels loyalty to guys I don't know if he really puts that much weight on experience but it just feels like he's unwilling to test things out out even when there's close to nothing to lose what impressed me the most about that Lopez performance after the Home Run obviously but he had a two-run lead so you're allowed to do that at least he walk two guys first like n's probably um when when Guerrero comes up right with two outs Vago Jun you know you're just I'm shaking my boots right because I'm like oh gosh um he throws him three straight sliders like first one's like 85 then 86 and 87 I don't think any of them were strikes technically right at least Stadium from my beautiful the first Bas line they didn't look like strikes but he knew that he had a hitter who likes to Chase and he was able to strike him out on three pitches without having to risk the ball being hit out of the ballpark right because he didn't have to throw right down the plate to do it but you can only do that if your stuff is good enough that the batter actually thinks that it's going to be a strike or at least you know a plausible strike so uh that's the kind of thing that that impressed me and and to your point Kyle yeah I would at this point and and you know no offense to Hector but I think you gota you got to try Alternatives and just see what you can get out of it because there isn't that much to lose frankly but there's something to gain right like you got to figure out like first of all Al is not gonna be back next year at least until you know late in the year if he is and who knows what you can't rely on him at all right no so and you're not gonna have NYS as your closer next year so that's that's a that's a problem now are they GNA go out and and and pay for clay homes or somebody who knows probably not so the question is who's going to be your closer next year are they gonna give up some prospects and get somebody they've been reluctant to do that or are they going to try to do it in-house if you're GNA do it in-house the now's a time to start to to to see is lope I mean Lopez is 31 years old is but is he somebody you know you want to actually consider as a plausible option for next year is maybe Tyson Miller is I don't know but like give some guys an opportunity because we know what nerys could do and nerys is going to be even older next year and we know so like we know how that works right figure out like what else could possibly happen here 100% And I think this is the danger that this team has by being in the position they've been in the last two years it's like as a fan we all know in 2013 they far out exceeded exceeded expectations 83 wins for a team we didn't really even know if they were going to be 500 and yeah we had our you know Pie in the Sky expectations but then this year the expectations are hey let's win a division and then by June you're like this team is dog crap and that's after an 18 and 11 April by the way just to show you how far they fell this year exactly but the danger that I'm talking about here is now you're in this position and you can think the new playoff system for this as well now you're in a position where you feel like you have a chance if there was only two wild card teams no chance Diamondbacks and the the Padres are running away with these things but now you got a third wild card team and you're like oh man if if the Braves can you know fall on hard times and the Cubs can just do you know maybe nobody else gets hot yeah yeah nobody else gets hot you know we're convincing oursel into this well you know what we're missing by doing that is by not throwing in the towel we're not giving guys like bios and Casey and Jack Neely opportunity unities to come in and show what they've got and if they do come in in September then we might have another PCA thing happen again where it's like high pressure and now these guys feel like they have to produce for a team that's just barely out of the wild card spot Sam obber and I had a conversation about this uh back in July if they're going to lose and not make the playoffs I'd rather them just be 15 games out so they can see what they're going to get for next year rather than you know win and just barely Miss and then you don't have that opportunity to give guys like the nees the biosteres and the Casey's opportunities to just see what you have for the next few years or maybe even if they perform and you're like hey I got a crowded Outfield position uh situation here Casey maybe becomes a great trade chip to get something that you really need for next year so I that that's the only thing that really worries me about like trying to inch our way back into a playoff race is just what do you miss and what what is the uh repercussions for the years to come by not playing some of these younger guys now it really is uh you have to evaluate the opportunity costs here and I think that's something Hoyer has had a difficult time doing I think at the trade deadline you saw that as well where could they have traded Drew Smiley and and some other sure I'm sure they could have right would that have got him under the luxury tax probably who knew we were over the luxury tax at the time that's another thing we will mention in a minute yeah that's a little that's a little bit of a of a another point but but like Kyle says we've been in limbo the whole year because there's this like sophisticated torture chamber that we've been playing in where we're never and then we joke about this all Jeremy and I joke about this all the time offline it's like well the Cubs are gonna do exactly what it takes to not be in or out of it by the end of the week and and week after week after week that's where they end up they end up in the same kind of and they never go and if they have a good week that's followed by a bad week they never go two consecutive weeks it feels like without being right back where they started which is sort of like eh don't know we just don't know right like and we'll talk about this later but you look at the schedule head there's there there's always this like half glass half full glass half empty realistic possibilities moving forward but yeah you know I guess as the season goes on and as the games become fewer and fewer you know I I hope I hope you're right and I do hope they bring up a couple of the guys uh and I do hope they try to experiment a little bit with with the bullpen because you know it does feel like it's kind of like Fool's Gold here that they're chasing there's still shortterm gains to be made by experimenting as well it's not just the long-term questions that we have to answer but it's also in the short term Hector nerys is not the guy I mean even after Friday's performance uh Suzuki comes back to walk it off but uh if they lose that game how much are we talking about how we never want to see nerys again right and so uh and Lopez having a successful go I I would love to see them run it out until they've got more data points to make a real decision and then find out who the next person in line is but it knowing it's not nerys right like you you know what that is and and take those opportunities you're not going to increase your win chances in the short term by running nerys out there every single game it's the same reason why I felt comfortable running PCA out there even though he was really over and we talked about this too he was really looked overwhelmed a lot and struggling because you just got to know right is this guy a a big leager or not and you know the the jury's even still out now like he's got a couple more months this year to go but but he has turned things around in a way that at least gives you a glimmer of hope with the bat because you know with the defense and the Fielding he's good but you just got to know these things you can't go into another season with that many question marks because when you do you're chasing your tail you're you're going after Eric Hosmer or signing Trey Mancini or you know you're doing dumb stuff that's that just cost you money that puts you over the salary cap probably uh or the the luxury tax because and you and you you pigeon hole yourself in with veterans who you never want to get rid of because you paid for them and it's just a mess like you you need to have a better understanding of the talent you have on your team and whether they're able to perform at the major level well and you you think about 2014 I mean bz and Rizzo sucked like they they were not they were not good cro too it was it was the worst year for those guys yeah yeah I mean it was it was not good and and yet they and and we talk about Matt mvis getting 99 plate appearances in 2023 and he's a bust like you know those but it's because of the situations that they get put in and you gota at some point you have to look at teams like the Rays who can continue to at least be you know right now they're not quote unquote in the playoff race but they're at least a average team and now they can test out these kinds of guys you know like Morel who they now have those experiments with that we didn't test Morell until a quote unquote winning window like why was Morel not playing third base in 2022 and 2023 when we're like this could be potentially a third baseman for the future why is why is it that you're waiting until you have to force a guy into a position um and and then from there it's like you can see just how much that probably impacted him at the plate this year as well because he was so focused on his Fielding I I I just think that there's a lot of things that are a little bit like this you can't compete I think Patrick Mooney said this really well you can't be in this mode of like competing plus developing at the same time with so many different guys you can do that with one or two but especially when you're so not that you don't have a great track record of developing so so it probably takes all of your energy to do that and the Cubs basically had rookies or or new people at positions at catcher center field first base and third base coming into this season and yet we're still saying oh we're going to compete for that that's that's when you think about it in retrospect it does feel a little ludicrous you know to to think that that was somehow gonna all magically work out and and I think cubs fans sometimes can get a little bit um overly optimistic based on the success they had during that 2015 2016 run that young people just come up and miraculously you get Chris Bryant types and they're just MVP candidates from day one I mean we' we've seen enough now uh to know that you know the the path of these guys is not always linear and you know we have these issues but this this third wild card and this gets back to Kyle's earlier Point really puts you behind the eightball because this is a team that in normal days remember when there was one wild card for God's sake you know in 2015 remember when there was none yeah I remember none and certainly if there was one we wouldn't be talking about it right we'd be talking about next year and we talk about what do we have to do for next year and you see teams that are out of it that use that time to develop players sometimes they'll use multiple years to develop players you know one of the things I always think back on is the Cub's got a lot of grief and this is I'm going way back now so I apologize to people out there but in the early 2000s the Cubs made a trade with the white socks for a closer named Matt carner because the Cubs needed a closer they they traded up a first round draft pick named John Garland right and John Garland ended up having a couple good Seasons with the the white socks as a starting pitcher and people like oh I can't believe the Cubs gave up John Garland I'm like yeah well the Cubs had like wood prior and brono later on Maddox John Garland threw 140 games before he became a good starter right he pitched for four years as a starting pitcher getting getting lit up half you know much of the time with eras in the high fours Cubs didn't have time for that they were they were in a comp competitive mode compete now right well what I'm afraid is that now in baseball unless you're like the White Sox the A's or one of these teams that's just like thrown up the white flag and is intentionally not competing everybody for the most part maybe the the Rockies and Marlins but almost everybody else theoretically is in a compete now mode to a degree because because there just too many Poss there too many there too many playoffs teams two we playoff spots is what it comes down to I mean I'm what are we we're four 13 12 11 10 we're the we have the 10th best record in the National League that means we're in the like middle third of the National League towards the bottom of the middle third and we're talking about like what do we have to do to make the playoffs like and the reds are half a game behind us but they're winning so we could be tied for 10th with that I mean it's ridiculous it's so crazy and you know I mean like it's good for the game because now you know the Reds and the The Pirates Who quote unquote fans feel like they're in it they're probably going to get more people at the games and yes all that but the the traditionalists and I think all of us is like dude you're not a competitive team you don't belong in the playoffs and now suddenly 40% of all teams are going to make it to the playoffs so that that it's it's that battle right of like we want new fans but also like we want the good teams to be rewarded and not you know 84 win team like the Diamond Backs to make it to the World Series just because they got on a heater well then Cubs ownership takes all the wrong lessons from the Diamondbacks making it to the World Series as well so there are too many uh games in baseball 162 games there too many games a lot to allow teams to get into the playoffs with sub 500 records I'm sorry like like that's the whole point of baseball is You Know Who You Are by the end of the year right and this isn't like even the NBA or or the NHL where you know play half as many games or God forbid the NFL where you play 16 games and you know you go 8 and eight occasionally seven to n or now I guess there's an extra game so you know eight and nine or whatever and you make the playoffs and you're oh team made the playoffs without going 500 yeah in that weird League yeah but in baseball come on if you're three games under 500 after 162 games you're not good you don't deserve to be in the playoffs no no let's let's let's talk about if the Cubs could make the playoffs do they uh so uh that's the talk right now because as we mentioned that's what there is there's a path there's a let's be Hypocrites let's do it 61 and 64 as of the time of this recording five solid 61 and 64 yeah oh well earned uh and five and a half back of the final wild card spot which is currently the Braves who just lost a key player uh again another injury to a key Superstar for the Braves that team has been so snake bit with injur this year to to great players there are superstars Superstars and and so now all better players than anybody on the Cubs that's the the the funny part about it all so you have the Mets the Giants and the Cardinals all ahead of the Cubs for that final spot on our on our tails and the reds are a half game behind and they're playing Toronto so and they're up six to2 in the bottom of the night in top of the night so I think yeah so the reason that people are looking at this and saying hm maybe they're squinting hard they're looking at that schedule and they're saying you know there's there's 37 games left and look at these opponents you've got Detroit come into town um I am very excited for the return of jav Bas to Wrigley Field uh it's crazy he hasn't been back since he was traded in in 2021 so it'll be very exciting to see Javi come back but the Detroit is a bad team followed by the at Miami for three games worst team and then three at Pittsburgh as long as you don't get skined there's a shot that you could uh beat Pittsburgh and then you've got uh the Nationals taking you into September to play more Pittsburgh so you got 15 games in a row here against winnable games against sub 500 teams so this could be is it funny though that we we sit here and we're talking about like hey m make the playoffs and then we say we're playing a bad team in Detroit yeah they have the same record as us yes yeah well we are also bad but but just wait till after this 15 game stretch when we go this now the typical cub thing to do here is the Cubs could go 10 and five right yep find themselves three and a half back but with only 22 games left in the season and having to go play the Yankees and Dodgers right after that with the Phillies on the horizon and then you're like well there's still a chance but it's going to be tough you know and then you're right back to where we are today so that's my prediction Jeremy but just on its face is that the Cubs will do whatever it is to to maintain this kind of limbo status and that would be just the perfect cub thing to do and realistically winning two out of three in every one of those series would be a good you know a good run that's what good teams do but it might not be enough but what the teams in front of you have been doing are four- six five and five six and four like there they're all just treading water which you need to get hot and you need some of them to get cold if they tread water and you get hot you're you're in that three and a half game back uh position that you're just describing there so you you need more help than just uh just getting they go eight and seven and you go 10 and five you know okay I I'm looking at so you guys looking at the next 15 I'm looking at the rest of the the season and right before we jumped on here I just kind of like categorize it in three different buckets uh what are the terrible teams what are the average teams and what are the good teams and the only team I truly care about I you know I get it we got a few teams ahead of us but like the only team I really care about is the Braves because I think that's the only actual Contender maybe the Mets but the Braves I mean they're playing Five good teams between now and the end of the year the Cubs only are only playing three Cubs are playing nine terrible Andor average teams and the Braves are playing seven and of course those are by sets uh by series I mean um so you know the the fairs and the Cubs but I don't think that the Braves have this like really tough stretch the only thing that you have to rely on for the Braves is like okay like all those injuries plus Matt Olson having the worst year of his career are just going to continue to keep on staying Pat even then I can easily see them winning 21 of their last 38 games and that puts them at 87 wins if the Cubs get to 87 wins you know like and by the way we can't just get to 87 we have to get to 88 because all the teams around us have the tiebreaker every team has a tiebreaker over the Cubs every team so you literally have to win 88 games which means you have to go 27 and 10 in the last 37 which just sounds to me ludicrous so you're you're actually hoping that these teams not only play average ball you're you're hoping that the Braves and the Mets tank and that the Giants are just average and that's it's a lot it's asking for even with a soft schedule it's a lot I was showing this to Jeremy the other day uh so far this year coming into tonight the Braves have been the unluckiest team in all of baseball not just with injuries but unluckiest in terms of their record versus their performance by a mile so even if they had moderate luck they'd be doing better uh in terms of in terms of the record is that based on run differential it's based on uh a combination of who they've played run differential and um and I think you know close games yeah like their their run differential is plus 50 Cubs is plus four you know so it's it's they're uh and they and they've lost a ton of one run games they make the Cubs makes makes me blush when I think of the Cubs and and and our one run performances and so um yeah it's um it maybe they will collapse because because they'll fall under the weight of all those injuries I don't know but um they've they've definitely um uh they've definitely underperformed versus where you would expect them to be two things we need to touch on before we start to wrap up the podcast two things that were news items of the week uh the first um the sixth inning rule was being batted around as and proposed as uh something that might be interesting forcing a starting pitcher to pitch six innings in a game uh Pat I know you've uh had some thoughts about this uh yeah so I looked at this proposal it's rumor right um the rule would be that a starting pitcher has to throw six Innings unless they give up four or more earned runs and they could leave or they throw 100 pitches then they could leave or they get injured and go on the iil those are the three exceptions so as I'm sitting there in the Cubs Blue Jays game on Saturday thinking about this talking about this actually with my friends about the the thing you know I and I'm not caught up I know like our friend Matt True Blood and others get caught up on that they like the openers and all that brewer stuff where the pitchers are only intended to throw like four or five innings or whatever n I'm I'm a more old school I don't care about that but I sat there and I watched two rain delays within the first you know three Innings of the game Justin steel leaves after two innings pitch because he got up he pitched rain delay came back rain delay you know at some point you know you can't do that to a pitcher so you would have to have some rule that would talk about like stoppages in play right because otherwise it's not fair the other thought thing I thought about as I was sitting there is you know obviously it would hurt the hendrixes of the world who you know aren't really six inning pitchers even imaga you know occasionally you know throws five good Innings and they take him out um yeah sad Assad would never be a starter right uh so then I was thinking about what about double headers like it's fair to have like a bullpen day right in second half of double header so you'd have to either designate one game of every double header or say both games of double headers and say you know what for double headers you don't have to follow this rule something to that effect and then I thought well what about a guy who gets hit in the shin by a pitch by a ball like a batted ball and they want to take him out because it's bruised but you don't know if anything's broken they want to X-ray and you know the guy might be able to make his next start in five or six days like you know that's a realistic thing but as a precaution you don't want to leave a guy in and then you know turn out that he has a like a broken uh bone in his leg or something that snaps in half so that's problematic um then there's the idea of what about stretching a pitcher out like the first game you know like a guy who who was injured he comes back you want to stretch him out a little bit or he's a relief pitcher who you want to you know turn into a starter a wisneski type scenario where like look we just want to get you know four Innings out of him you know and and build up his pitches and next start you know there there are like I think legitimate baseball reasons why you would pitch fewer than six Innings or fewer than 100 pitches for that matter you know whatever whatever you want to use so ultimately I think the rule and the concept still needs a lot of work I get the I get the idea behind it and I understand the the motive and and I'm sympathetic to the idea in some respects but I also think that there are so many um other um potential outcomes negative outcomes unintended consequences that they really have to iron out before you'd want to do something as Draconian as that I yeah I 100% on all that stuff um the things I like let's talk about the things I like about this I remember going to Greg maddox's 300th win when I was what 16 years old and being able to say three weeks after the day that I had like bought those tickets knowing which day that Greg Maddox was going to pitch right you know like I was able to forecast that because back then like you you're the guy throws every five innings I think this this potent like what they're trying to do right is they're trying to get back to let's get consistent starting pitchers so that people know when they buy tickets what what starters they're going to see that they're going to be in there the heavyweight bouts right the Pedros versus the Clemens and those kinds of things I think that's the intent I think the execution if all those things that you just mentioned I I hadn't heard those things about you know the four runs the 100 pitches um the other stuff I hadn't heard that yet I think that all needs work um I think if they do roll that out they're going to find that they have issues with things like that I think you can't really have a like drawn Line in the Sand of it's either this or this I think it just has to have consequences I think it's if you pull the pitcher out under six Innings then you know you lose one of your bench players or you lose your DH yeah or you lose your DH or you you know now that that that starting pitcher the next game um you know has some sort of consequence right I think there if you have consequences tied to it to be able to give the managers the decision of like is the juice worth the squeeze to take this guy out before six Innings and you make it painful enough for him not to do that you you still get the same result without having all of these intricacies that you're talking about right of like oh well you know what if what if there's seven rain delays in the first 30 minutes of the game you know that kind of stuff and that that's where it really becomes uh these scenarios that you're like oh we didn't think about that we should have thought about that so I I like the just like what you said that having it tied to the DH having it tied to some sort of consequence just to that that would eliminate things like the opener and stuff like that like no team would be crazy enough to do that yeah exactly and and for that reason it gets back to the whole reason that you know that excitement of going to the ballpark of man I'm going to zto versus Moulder I'm going to Hudson versus Maddox you know all those things that that that was part of the fun for me growing up I I think that there's something to also having the hitters get that third time through the lineup as much as possible Right try to get uh the everything seems to be offensively focused uh for rule changes to try to help the hitters uh as the pitchers are insane now everyone throws a 98 mph slider out of the bullpen and like uh to try to help uh the hitters in the offense I think that uh that's a lot of the desired outcome of a a lot of the things that were put in place with the uh with the bullpen changes pitch clocks and uh uh the these the base changes Etc so I think that's that's another Advantage I I'm I'm a huge johnboy fan and I was listening to their podcast the other day and and you know Jimmy the head of johnboy made a really good point he was likey hey you know I went to a Red Sox and Yankees game and I brought a few people with me that had never been to a baseball game and I'm sitting on the edge of my seat in the seventh inning with it being a scoreless game and I'm thinking what a great pitching matchup and the next day he talked to those people and said hey do you have a good time and they were like no nothing happened it was boring it's like soccer yeah and it's like okay well if we want the new generation or new fans to come to the game offense is what speaks the most you think about 1998 how many fans came to baseball because of Sammy Sosa Mark McGuire not many fans came to baseball for Greg Maddox Tom glavin and the molders and zos of the world right they they learned to love them after coming for Sammy and Mark it's also hard to capture a the drama of a pitcher duel in a gif when you can with a walk-off or those other things and that that's a huge part of how people consume uh a lot of what's going on in b not our podcast listeners but a lot of other folks uh out there though and also the last the last thing you have to say about all this is that anything that runs the risk of increasing pitcher injuries at a time when pitching injuries are at an seemingly all-time high you have to be really careful about right because that's a l that that would have the kind of the reverse effect you don't want to do that you don't want to get people hurt do do you think though if you're forcing pitchers to pitch six Innings that it does have that effect or does it potentially start to move the needle the other direction it might move Kyle Hendricks to a rocking chair in in in Florida I mean no I don't know like I I I do that is an interesting question like that the theory of do you throw more or or you know how do you how do you equate this I just think with with the amount of velocity that pitchers use on sliders and and herballs and things like that and that the types of pitches they throw and the stress and strain it puts on their elbows and their arms I do worry that um that they'll try to fight through some of that stuff in ways that would be counterproductive is taking them out well let's let's just do a hypothetical Tyler glass now has said on P podcast before like hey I've tried to throw at 80 85% Just with finesse and my erra is in the sixes whereas when I throw 100% on every single pitch my erra is in the twos like he's he's on the record saying that do you think if Tyler glass now is told you have to throw six inning every single game now do you think that he still is throwing 100% on every single pitch I don't know how he could yeah that's and that's that's my point there is that no Tyler glass now may not be a low three erra you know crazy electric stuff but hey he he might also not get injured at the the rate that he's getting right now and and that sucks for pitchers right like that that's their career right like if he says hey my job is to not let guys score and now suddenly because he has to change his mindset of well I have to throw more Innings and so of course now more guys are going to score that means that he's less valuable to the team potentially and that means that his salary goes down all those effects happen but it also means a lot more offense and a lot more fans in the seats potentially and potentially a lot less pitchers under the knife last bit of news we're going to hit it real quick and then we will get into the 84 Cubs but the last piece uh Jed Hoyer we've talked over the past few weeks about what does it take for this man to be fired what does it take for him to keep his job uh the discussion today the of the week the news where he made a mention in passing that the Cubs maybe over the luxury tax this sounds to me like a fireable offense if uh if the Cubs are actually I think that one of the big performance metrics for Jed Hoyer and how he's being raid is be under the luxury tax if you barely go over the tax that has to be a firable offense right Pat yes if you're gonna go over the luxury tax go over the luxury tax go all in right that's the whole point of this right the reason why the Cubs were tiptoeing around in the off season was because because they didn't want to go over the luxury tax and we were told repeatedly I guess perhaps falsely that they weren't going to go over the luxury tax and they were very paying very close attention to that but it turns out in his comments he sort of didn't throw Bellinger under the B like well when we had the chance to get Bellinger we knew that would put us over the luxure tax I'm like did you though by what $4 do like I mean come on like that's that's ridiculous because I have no problems about going over the threshold point is to go over the thr you want to do it on a team that's worth doing it for right so wrong on this team but also so next year when the luxury tax is what 30% or whatever because you know year two it goes up higher is that is that an excuse for staying under it next year which seems really counterproductive because we're just in a retool here we're going to be good any minute now right I mean it's only three and a half years uh I I I don't I don't understand the the logic behind that the the mathematical logic behind it frankly if you're going to do it go all in and if you're and do it because you're going to be good and if not you know the whole point we we were told this like a year ago and two years ago oh we don't want to go over the the Cs until we're ready to compete right and I don't think that meant for the third wild card in which we are currently in fifth place I think that meant compete for something like you know like a division slash you know like a run in the playoffs so this seems to run counter to everything we've been told in the past and to to say it sort of offhandedly like he did and then blame it on the Bellinger signing struck me as is as odd it sounds like a front office mistake to me Kyle I mean the word might is just like are we just using ignorance yeah ignorance is bliss like oh you know we thought we were at a certain number turns out we weren't so uh you know that's on accounting yeah um we're all for trying to blame to for trying to blame crane Kenny as well here on this podcast but I don't think that that either yeah I mean you know there's the tough thing with the front office is that you have no idea what Tom Ricketts is saying behind closed doors you have no idea what he's setting as parameters you have but all I can say is that the obvious things to me that are way more firable are hey we've been at the top of the we've been at the top of the luxury tax threshold for the last two years and we CLE we're above 500 last year and we may not even make it to 500 this year meanwhile the Reds and Pirates might surpass us and they have minuscule salaries compared to us um like that that to me is the biggest firebowl offense and I don't I don't know if you can give him one more year after doing you know going over a luxury tax plus what he's done since Theo has exited um but I I can say that I I did a video gosh it was about two months ago um very arbitrary where I was just like giving him a grade and the grade was basically like one that you would give to probably like the a or the ray GM not not to a guy who has $200 million at his disposal um and and so I just I just wonder the question for me is like what are the parameters that Tom Ricketts has set for for Jed emper to say like hey if you don't reach this then you're out or is it just that hey you know what as long as we're just good enough to get people in the seats and they can buy the $20 beers then I'm cool you know like because that that's a very real conversation that a lot of owners could be having all the owners over the offseason found out that you know hey you can win 84 games and make it to the World Series why are we going out and spending a bunch of money that that's that's a real conversation that owners are having these days which sucks for the fans sucks for us Cubs fans who expected this to be a winnable division this year uh but if he's just Tom's puppet then he's doing a good job what does that make Carter good god um remember the day when gms's were the guys that made all the decisions now it's remember I remember they got promoted now yeah new titles um so in in sort of corresponding to that news there was also news today uh the Cubs are already leaking that they're not going to be in the contention for Juan stto so don't worry about that luxury cap be fiscal issue but they are going to make a steady a hard push to finish second or third in the Corbin burn sweep Stakes they say so um you know second we hope we can only hope that they'll they're in the hunt they they we had conversations but then all other teams refuse to sign him though Jed would probably or Tom would probably consider uh I'd rather see them spend the money on a on a bat like you know you got Ben Brown and Kade Horton coming back next year sha steel and of course tyion Assad for that fifth spot like I I actually am okay with the starting rotation for next year as long as they're all healthy I want to see them go and be aggressive and and get you know uh a hard-hitting catcher a big time DH a outfielder that isn't going to just barely be a two War player but actually a seven War player six War player for the entire year I want to see that's not going to happen but but they might G catcher via trade right that's a possibility there there are ways they can they can Tinker around it but it doesn't seem like they're going to be in the running for anyone who's who's really good they might try to get a hitter who's marginally good and hope that he continues to be good in his 30s yes because that seems to be sort of right up their alley um but yeah it's sadly uh the the multi hundred million doll deals are not not coming our way doesn't look like the way we close every show this season is we celebrate the 40th anniversary of the 1984 Chicago Cubs so we parachute in to this week in 1984 we take a look we just talked about what what the week that was for the 2024 Cubs let's go back 40 years ago uh a team that was uh making a real playoff push and a team that uh was already identified as good as we did in the last few weeks we we know they're good we know they're headed to the playoffs Pat Uh what happened this week in 1984 well coming off of last week when we discussed how the Cubs uh swept the Mets in four games and and kind of were riding High um the Cubs then turned around this week and and and by the way you know this is a team that's like 21 games over 500 so we're not talking about just a a three game under 500 kind of thing U Cubs were four and a half games ahead of the Mets in first place back when there were two divisions in the National League so that's you know a notable thing uh and the Cubs had a kind of a bad week actually they got swept by the Astros in three games they lost the first game of a series to the Reds in Cincinnati uh and you know as it coms fan you're like oh boy here we go again right uh but the Cubs did Rebound in the next two games against the Reds and they won two so they actually had a two and four week much like this Cubs team and they did lose ground in the standings they went from four and a half up to two and a half up but the beauty of having a four and a half game lead is you can have a bad week and still be two and a half games up right and make it up the next week which is sort of where the Cubs were at this point what I would say about uh the week and I think I'm gon to do a little Spotlight here on a certain player uh those last two games in Cincinnati when you know you've got a a team with com some young players and and some veterans they brought a lot of veterans in one of those veterans they brought in the year before in 1983 actually uh the Cubs had made a trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers to bring in a guy by name of Ron who had been a six-time Allstar with the Dodgers and was sort of in his older later years right the Dodgers had had had this great infield with Garvey and Lopes and uh Bill Russell and um and Ron and uh they were kind of dismantling that and going through the own sort of retool or whatever and bring in some younger players and the Cubs under Dallas Green were able to go out and acquire um the very expensive Ron he made he made like $900,000 if you can believe that uh a lot of money for the Cubs uh but in these two games in the first game in particular uh he went three for five but he hit a big home run in the eighth inning that put the Cubs ahead for good in a game where they had taken the lead they'd fallen behind and you know when you've lost four in a row you start to get you know it starts to Cascade a little bit so he rided the ship and in the very next game on Sunday the first inning he hits a three-run homer to put the Cubs up over the Reds and kind of give him some Breathing Room Rick Sutliff does the rest you know you know the drill right like Cubs win you know so they turn what could have been a terrible week into just you know like not a great week right by going two and four and he uh he provided the leadership in that in that run so I was doing a little research on Ron because I remember Ron the the player in the name um he actually finished 17 in the MVP in 1984 you know Ryan Samberg won the MVP and several other Cubs were Rick Sutcliffe and L Durham were up there so you know he was like fourth or fifth on the team but still you know got some votes in the MVP which was I thought impressive but I was looking at his lifetime numbers and you know I remember him later in life as a cub where he wasn't what I would call a defensive uh uh gold Glover by any stretch but you know he had been a decent defensive player with the Dodgers earlier in his career he could actually die for balls which he had stopped doing by this point in his Cubs career but uh he also had 316 lifetime home runs which in that era was actually a lot you know before the modern sort of Juiced era of home runs he had over 1100 runs batted in his on base plus slugging percentage was 799 which translated into an Ops plus you know if you modernized it for today and and ballparks of 121 which is certainly significantly above average um under the Jaws like sort of system for ranking people he's a 26th best third baseman of all time not bad um and in 1984 he had 25 homers and drove in 97 runs uh in his four years as a cub actually he hit like 115 home runs and and you know was consistently driving in 97 runs so you know I think Ron SE is one of those guys who uh probably a little bit underrated you know in the annals of history or forgotten about his lifetime war was 53.7 which is significant like he was that one home run that got called back earlier in April this year away from being better than Tony Perez for example Hall of Famer and in fact his his career war is higher than a lot of Hall of Famers people who I think we would look at and say oh that guy's definitely a Hall of Famer and yet you know not as good as Ron in terms of in terms of things like War like for example he's just below uh David Ortiz on the list and Tony Perez but he was uh above Fred McGriff wow he was above Kirby Pucket you know Ted Simmons Orlando sepa and of course obviously way way way above like the kind Harold Baines and people like that right so um ahead of yti or Molina if he ever makes the Hall of Fame so you know 53.7 is a like when you look at Wars you're right you're right in that sweet spot of a lot of Hall of Famers in and around you so uh solid pickup for the Cubs sort of one of the pieces on a team that had a lot of good strong players boy wasn't it nice to to have like a team where like eight of your nine or I'm sorry seven of your eight everyday regulars before the DH are all like above average hitters not not like we see now but like but just like solid guys up and down the lineup it really it really helps and he picked up the team this week got him to two and four which is as unimpressive as that sounds kept them you know two and a half games ahead of the Mets in first place and and got him to live to fight another day next week love to see when the uh the 40-year Gap uh has a lot of synergies between it uh so it's fun to see uh uh good to see the uh this week in in 84 Cubs always always fun we'll be back next week to drop in on that as well and with that we're going to get ready to call it a podcast we're going to wrap it up Kyle thank you for coming on and talking Cubs with us this week we hope to have you back again it's been a lot of fun time flies when we're talking Cubs with you as well please remind all of our listeners how they can find all of your content yes well Jeremy Pat thanks for having me uh setupman pod on Twitter and Tik Tock and Instagram all those things um and then if you just search for setup man on YouTube you'll find us as well um or you you can just find it all at one place in fact I'll just say the setup man.now all that there for you yeah definitely go check out uh the Youtube video talking about the strike calls from this week that we mentioned at the top very well done a lot of a lot of work put into that so great job by uh by you Kyle and uh yeah thanks for coming on and talking Cubs and we hope to have you back soon thanks guys yeah thanks very much and of course like I mentioned at the top you can follow all of our socials at Wrigleyville natat give us those subscriptions on YouTube we're trying to build that channel up we really appreciate that as well when you're out there subscribing to the setup man make sure you've thrown a subscription our way as well and uh continue to tell your Cub fan friends about the podcast show them how to subscribe to the podcast all the links I describe the entire back catalog of this podcast you want to go back and hear about Ron's would have been Homer but it was called a foul ball and then uh a brawl erupted back in April you go you can listen uh to Matt True Blood and US break that down uh frame by frame uh over in the back catalog and The Archives of this podcast so with that it's Wrigleyville nation.com all all the links we described can be found there and with that we're going to call it a podcast Pat thank you for joining us thank you Jeremy thanks again everyone for listening we'll talk to you again next time [Music]