On the Shane Page #46: Evaluating the Eagles 53-Man Roster

[Music] we may live over 5,000 miles from Lincoln Financial Field but what we lack in proximity we make up for in the film study and each and every week we'll be bringing you indepth sort of film breakdowns from across the pond and the sooner state welcome to on the Shane page I am your host Shane HAF you can follow me on Twitter at Shane half NFL I am joined by BG's own film Guru Johnny pagee give him a follow on Twitter at Johnny page9 Johnny how are you doing this evening yeah I mean I was doing a lot better what 90 minutes ago Shane um if anything sounds off audio wise and stuff just forgive us we'll tweet about it we've had a bit of nightmare cuz streamyard has decided to crash on us this evening and it was the only time we had to record this podcast so we we think we've made it work we hope people can hear what I'm saying at some point um but yeah if there are any audio is issues etc etc um then we do apologize but yes I was doing better about an hour ago sort of was trying to figure out how we're going to do this but I think it would actually be a a good show which is why we wanted to do it because we had well you had quite a good idea that you stole from someone like all good ideas um which we'll get into in a second um but yeah fingers cross we actually get this out to people because uh it hopefully should be a pretty interesting lesson yeah if you are watching this live and you drop comments which we always appreciate just know we're not going to be interacting with those because we're recording this hours ago uh and then I did some editing to upload it so uh we're basically recording in recording our video in Skype while I'm screen recording my screen so I can try to Cobble it all together in post production and hopefully it works um but uh what we're going to do today is we are going to go through the Eagles 53 man roster and we're basically going to briefly touch on each player and sort of put them on a grading scale uh this is an idea that I stole from Taylor kyes you can follow him on Twitter t39 uh he does great work for Pat's Pulpit he and I have interacted on some draft stuff before and I saw him post this for the Patriots roster and I thought it was really cool so um we'll dive into it here in a second before we do that though I do want get to a quick review uh we're trying to push to a 100 reviews before the regular season starts we are at 52 on Apple podcast we're at 43 on Spotify right now so keep those coming in but this one came from Milton noobe jayen H maybe some favorite players there that said Shane and Johnny are awesome the detailed X's and O's analysis has helped me understand so much more about what I'm seeing in these games so uh that's always great to hear that Johnny and I both come from an education background and Johnny still works in education and I know that's one of the things I really enjoy is helping people just to understand the game that they love so much just a little bit more so that may not be what we're doing today we may not be breaking down film but we will get back to that I promise as soon as we get to the regular season so uh without any further Ado Johnny shall we jump into this yeah do you want to give a very brief explanation it' be nice if everyone could see this live of course about sort of how we're going to rank each player you don't need to go into great detail but um basically we're going to go through every single player as you mentioned and we're going to sort of give them a very brief ranking in terms of how many categories are there eight different categories so hopefully you'll be able to see whether you're watching this live listening to it check out Twitter timelines or whatever you'll be able to see the categories we're using and but they essentially go through like the generic all proo uh being number one pro bow being number two quality starter being number three uh a quality starter with upside is number four so I gave you're saying is not yet there but has the potential to do it number five is like a high-end role player six is like a spot starter replacement level type player then we got your backup and last but not least someone who we don't actually think should be on the roster I don't know if we're going to use the practice squad today feels a bit mean the eighth category basically just disagreeing with Harry Roseman completely at a time of recording as well by the way um I know the practice squad rules have changed the last couple of years I know that guys like dealing MCM and the center have made it onto the practice squad I think even Jack sto might be back as well but for the purpose of this we're just going to rank the 53 um and yeah I don't think anyone's going to worry too much that we haven't given Jack star rating so we'll just focus on the 53 as it stands at the time of recording but I know these things are uh pretty flexible um and I should have said as well and we haven't done this off air so we're gonna have to mutually sort of agree so we might disagree some of them will whiz through some of we might disagree a little bit about how we rank the players and we'll just have a little chat basically about how we rank them and we'll try to come to an agree if we can on sort of what we think about the players is that a pretty fair explanation Shane absolutely so yeah I have descriptions for each of these so all pro is basically they have top five potential at their position uh Pro Bowl caliber is top 10 potential to position uh obviously you mentioned quality starter quality starter with upside is a year one two or three guy that I think has starting potential uh and then you pretty well covered the rest of them so let's go ahead and in uh you want to do offense first or defense first Johnny yeah start with offense start with offense we'll start with the obvious one the QB position I think we just go position in order I guess it' be easy that way then I can mentally keep track of what I'm doing as well because we have not done this off air which we probably should have done but like most things on the P we just put it together so I am now racking my brains while you're talking and actually thinking where I would put them all I've got a pretty good idea um but I might be persuaded by your arguments as well so there we go do you want to start things off with quarterback yeah I mean Jaylen Herz I I would put solidly in that All Pro Caliber we've seen him be a top five player at his position obviously it was a down year last year I know people on the feed have heard this by now because Mark mentioned it on a show I recorded with him yesterday but I'm gonna d drop it on you Johnny because I doubt you've heard it Jaylen Herz had 15 interceptions last year do you know how many turnover worthy plays Jaylen Herz had last season I couldn't tell you is it going to be something like 11 or 12 or it it was actually 15 but he's the only quarterback in PFF charting with over a hundred dropbacks that has a 100% conversion rate on turnover worthy plays to turnovers so uh last year obviously an anomaly TR Mark called it the most unlucky season of any NFL quarterback in the history of the game uh Jaylen Herz I have solidly is All Pro yeah no um no discussion or no disagreement here I reckon actually a lot of people based on what I read at the moment from everyone who hates jayen Herz online apparently it's weird how I've suddenly become a jayen Herz Defender because a lot of guys in the National media seem incredibly down on him they may have him as maybe tier two or tier three I would put him in tier one I do think there is top five potential and why do I think that because I've seen it so it's quite nice that I've seen top five potential and so I would go all pro as well on Jaylen Herz um I would take Kenny picket um I was sort of interested to see how harsh he'd be here I would put him in like that tier six that like uh spot startup decent role player but I could easily have him as a backup as well but I feel like until I see him get worse I would bump him up ever so slightly and then I would put Tanner M purely in the backup like the tier below just because I haven't seen it um yet as a an NFL quarterback in the rec of the Season uh any disagreements there no not really I mean you can do a lot worse than Kenny pick he's he's been a two-year starter so calling him a spot starter replacement is level like I think he blurs that line between that and backup and I'm not high enough on Tanner mcke to call him a quality starter upside even though he's in that year one to three so I agree with you there so I I'll go with you on those uh let's roll over to running back and I'll take the slam dunk here again and just say saquin Barkley is All Pro Caliber correct any disagreements no not all top is without a doubt I think he's probably top five that land potential he probably already is top five so that's an easy one I think game was an interesting one um where would you put gamewell based on the the tiers you've got I think I would classify gamewell as a high-end role player I think that for what the Eagles want to use him for is like the two-minute drill type back bringing him into pass protect a little bit I think he can pull off that role well I don't think he's a guy that you want to be your starter uh but I I think I would have him above just a quality role player I'd probably say high-end role player that's a little one-dimensional interesting I think I would do the same with gamewell and Shipley I think some others might see Shipley more maybe a potential starter I'm not sure I see Shipley as a starter so I would Pro I think he's more of someone you want to come in and spell the main guy rather than ever be the main guy so based on this I would put both of them actually as like highend r players what that tier five I'm putting them both in um you disagree would you have Shipley above me um I imagine most people listening have shiple above me um any arguments yeah I don't know ship Le's so hard because he's a rookie and we haven't seen it um I would probably put him just a spot down right now as a quality role player rather than a highend role player because I haven't seen it h but I do certainly think he has that potential I just haven't seen in the NFL yet Beyond a couple of preseason games but how much do you really need to see running backs do like do you don't know what a running back is I feel like that's true I feel like they're a pretty easy position to evaluate I feel like I know what Shipley is sort of already I highly doubt he's going to dramatically change me I mean I should have said at the start Shane is the man with all the power here because he's the one fing him the document as we go along so I think I've argued my case for him being the same as Game World apparently I'm the Shifty guy now there you go I can see based on the spreadsh you're changing that you're going to give to me um yeah I think I agree with you in most positions I don't count preseason but I think running back is one position where you can and he looked like will Shipley like he could catch he could re block relatively well he wasn't going to break one off on like a 50 yard but he'll get five when there's three available I think he's that kind of back I don't think he's someone you want to be the guy but I think he's a perfectly adequate um backup um right receivers is going to be an interesting one actually because the Eagles have had a bit of a random receiving receiver room over um over the offseason I will start with the obvious one um this might cause some disagreements on people listening but I would put AJ Brown tier one Devonte Smith tier two um I absolutely love Devonte Smith but the way we've categorized this is top five potential as much as I love Devonte Smith I think top five is is tough there are some seriously seriously good receivers out there and I think expecting him to be top five is really really hard especially on a team that already has a top five receiver because I think AJ Brown is already in the top five this year um would you disagree with me there I no I would not that's how I would stack it up as well I think when you think about top five wide receivers there has to be I think he's a very good player but if you ask me off the top of my head who the top five receivers are I would probably name guys like I mean Justin Jefferson just I mean he's a freak Tyreek Hill freakish speed Jamar Chase CD lamb AJ Brown like those are the kinds of guys I would put in the top five I don't think it's disrespectful Devon to Devonte Smith to say he's an incredible player but he doesn't have that one freakish quality that I think gives him top five potential like he doesn't have the Big Frame so I mean he's remarkably good at contested catches for his size he's got a good release package but to me you either need to be really big or really fast probably to be top five he's neither but I think you know solidly top 10 for sure yeah and you're comparing like top five guys like Justin Jefferson Tyreek Hill ZD lamb like freaks of the freaks of the freaks for him to get um top five is really really um really difficult and what about the final fre Den so for those of you that are not aware obviously it was Johan doson Johnny Wilson and Brit and Cy um very weird three when you s like that very very different players all three of them how have you got those three stacked up I think I would call Jan Dodson a quality starter because I kind of said said that I think he's a solid wide receiver too I think if you're a solid wide receiver too um I would call you a quality starter in the league um Johnny Wilson Johnny Wilson I could see I could see quality starter upside because the way I described that was a year one through three player with starting potential and I think he's got that down the road maybe you say he doesn't have that right now um and maybe maybe we put him down more in like a quality role player at the time being and then Britain cvy I have in the backup special teamer role like he's if if we were ranking him as a punt returner he's probably All Pro Caliber but ranking him as a wide receiver he's just he's a backup special teamer yeah I would agree with you on cavy I would have him as a backup special team I'm lower on both of them than you actually I would definitely not have Johnny Wilson as a quality starter upside I don't think Johnny Wilson will ever be a starter I don't think he moves well enough I think he's always going to be a role player like I think have I think he's got a very very valuable role I can go either way to a high-end role player or below like a spot starter quality role player um uh I'm happy to put him in the middle as like a high-end role player if that's how you feel a little bit more strongly than me but me personally I would have him down one um I'm still unsure on Johnny Wilson and John Dawson's a weird one so I as you probably saw on Twitter went back and watched him a little bit um because I got a little bit time off at the moment and I don't know like the film is different in 2023 to 2022 um I watched a couple of games from 22 and I watched a couple of games from 23 and I don't know if there was like an attitude or if there was something not particularly right um I don't like the way they used it in Washington at all like I mean the I didn't watch every single game obviously I watched about three um from 2023 but there was it was quite a lot down the field it was a lot of deep outs comebacks which he's perfectly fine at but he didn't get any like manufactured touches every single time there was like anything short it was Cur Samuel like every single time it was incredibly predictable um despite the fact they killed the Eagles defense twice last year but anyway um I would probably go with Johan dson as like start upside um just because I think the fact that he didn't make Washington's number two and they had no real reason to trade him and they did sort of give up on him and I think based on his film last year I think you'd say he's got starting potential rather than already being a quality starter um and that's based on going and watching him again um yeah it's not that I disliked Daw I mean people listening to going to be confused if they heard me on the breaking news podcast saying that he was like a first round pick and he was and or I can tell you is what I saw I wasn't as impressed with the film last year as I was the year before there's a really good um tweet that I cliped that if we weren't on Skype I'd get you to pull up um where he runs like a um it's almost like a like a Crossing route I guess like a slant Crossing route across the field and he doesn't break it back at all like he just keeps running diagonally and the quarterback just has such an easy like way of under cutting it because he doesn't he doesn't like Bend his roote at all um it's quite hard to explain I'm not doing a very good job of this but when you're running like across the field you don't want to run in a completely diagonal line because then obviously the cornerback can undercut you if you bend off your route you sort of stop the cornerback from getting on top of you and I was quite surprised when I watched that rep because that to me was like what do doson was known for was like the nuances of root running and understanding how to do things like that so I was a little concerned about if there was something going on effort levels I'm not sure um once again I'll leave it up to you I think you could AR I think basically it's a weird one I think I'd say pre-draft and rookie he's definitely agreen he's a quality starter um based on what I saw last year I might knock it back a peg ever so slightly um to starting potential um I think that's still fits the bill so I'm not really massively fuss either way um but yeah uh maybe I surpris a few people there want to have him there but I'll leave it to you to you can make the final decision now then what do you want to do have I swayed you or do you want to leave him as a quality starter yeah to be honest I forgot he's in year three so he qualifies for the quality starter upside so that's that's the easy one CU I felt weird I I was torn between quality starter and high-end role player and now I'm like oh yeah there's a category in between that I can use because he's only in year three so I I'll go with you on that one for sure um let's talk annias Smith real quick I think this will be quick he is on ir and so I've listed the IR guys anas Smith Albert okam and cydney brown who's technically on the pup list but they're on this too anas Smith Backup special teamer any problem with that absolutely none okay there I even say he could be the ultimate if we were really feeling mean the practice s guy based on a training camp but I might not use that actually I might use it once maybe I'll use it once just to be mean to someone for the sake of entertainment but I won't use it on a i Smith okay uh on to Dallas GD then I penciled Dallas GD in as proo Cal caliber there's a time I would have put him in the top five at his position group um he a lot of it I think has been injury related because I still really believe in the talent um I also think a lot of his value as a tight end is as a blocker more than a receiver which isn't sexy not that he's a bad receiver by any stretch of the imagination um but he's not a George KD uh he's not a Travis Kelce um maybe I should list out more tight ends figure out exactly where I have him but I I've got him in that Pro Bowl caliber rather than the All Pro Caliber what about you yeah I think is all around tight end he could be your pro but I think injuries and production probably knock him back as well um I think to be an all pro like you see what someone like Sam La por did coming into the league almost immediately and you're like yeah that guy is really really really Elite immediately and I think Dallas got it due to injuries and as I said production and I think Dall got is incredibly valuable NFL player like I'm a little bit worried about the tight end room and what would happen if God does get injured again this year um so I would give D SC I'd agree with you I'll put him as proall caliber I think top 10 is fine I think maybe a couple years ago he may have cracked top five but I think there's a few younger guys um that maybe show a little bit more than he does and then the only other Titan Eagles had on the roster was Grant is it calcatera that you pronounce it yes um I mean I don't know backup special teamer just not really seen anything there's a little bit of Grant CER I've seen I'd just like to say that I hopefully I didn't get CJ us arm fired um because I did come on the podcast and was very critical and I'm joking by the way we don't have that kind of impact but last year made us laugh and we produced the most critical episode ever on Shan desire and then after we released it he was let go by the Eagles oh no he wasn't let go was he he was uh moved upstairs should we say um yes he sent to a work camp in Siberia yeah basically basically um CJ zarma had about the worst blocking game I've ever seen from a tight end in PR season for someone fighting for a roster spot who's meant to be a blocking tit end so that did not surprise me at all um I would give gr uh Calera the the backup special team of role and in all honesty I'm a little bit concerned about Titan 2 um so I think Jack sty coming back I'm quite happy about because the very least I know he can block in fact this this a bow prediction Jack sty has more snaps than calcatera and Albero this year does that count as a ball prediction from me um I don't know if it does but I think he easily could because he can block and I'm yet to see that the other two guys actually can yeah uh speaking of Albert o Albert o is on IR backup special teamer for him as well yeah I've now try to desperately look and think can I actually Ed the practice squad player for anyone feels really mean now that if I don't hit someone here um I I W oh maybe I won't give it to anyone if I was going to give it to anyone it might be ala because the potential was there but oh my goodness he's just never done it like I I like what I see and I've been quite complimentary I watch him basically this is how I watch albao just in 10 seconds I watch him run a really good route the GoBack doesn't throw the ball I never know why but there must be a reason why and then he can't block and that's basically his career and I I watch him go wow he's athletic and the ball never goes his way and I'm thinking if he's that good some quarterback once in their life is gonna actually try and throw him the ball so it makes you worry about what's going on in uh in training during the week because I swear he moves well like for a purely aesthetic athletic that's a bit of a Tong with star he looks good he looks good when he moves just no one froz in the ball and he doesn't do anything his production is abysmal um yeah right if you're if you're a quarterback how are you not like hey let's throw it to the 65 260 pound guy that runs a 4440 um there's got to be a reason yeah yeah so I I I'll go back out special teamer as well okay onto the offensive line the Eagles kept nine here Jordan Milada I said Pro Bowl caliber um I don't consider top five I think maybe top 10 potential I think he has top five potential but I don't think he's top five yet so it depends how you look at your description I think he could be um but but he's not there yet so I would agree with you should we just go through the five starters before we do backups let's do it so I would do my L at top 10 see this is where I think it's weird I'd put Landon Dickerson top five because I just don't think there's that really good left guards that I read about and I'm not watching every single guard but I do read offensive line guys I know brand them Fon basically everyone's on offensive line guy in the world um I know he thinks an dick said is top five so I would put him there cam Jurgens is a fascinating one you can't put him anywhere other oh sorry do you disagree with me on Dickerson I should have said or you going top five as well no I'm with you on Dickerson I've got him top five as well Jurgens has got to be quality stter upside because we just haven't seen him at Center so I don't think you complet with the quality starter I think by the end of this year he could be a pro calibra um I really do like the idea of Jurgens at Center if he was at Right Guard would you say quality start good question absolutely not no I wasn't okay overly impressive Right Guard but I felt bad for him because everything he wants to do is get out in space and he never did because Jason Kelsey just did it every time instead and why wouldn't he he's Jason Kelce so um I would drop cam Jurgens down McKai beckon I have no clue absolutely not uh if you were telling me before Jeff St work him would probably been backup special teamer now he's gone to stoutland University for a few months I mean can you be really cheeky and put M quality starter upside I mean they the Eagles must think he's G to be pretty good because they're starting him immediately have Tyler Ste without even basically watching him um and Tyler were right I mean he's probably not as easy he's he's not eligible for that because it's his fifth season so one of the distinctions for the quality starter upside is they've got to be a year one through three player I personally I've got him at like a spot starter quality role player like I I think maybe he's like until he proves otherwise I would say maybe replacement level contributor and you know hopefully he exceeds that role this year but that's kind of how I'd view him right now yeah I'd accept that I would accept that what that W tier six and then Lane Johnson we need to discuss it for about five seconds top five top three top one yeah um you you name it I still think he's underrated by some of the national media just the guy doesn't do anything wrong ever I'm like fair enough I still hear people put like other tackles above him and I'm like just why like what did they do that Lange Johnson doesn't basically um yeah l Johnson is incredibly I think the Eagles are I think we as fans just take it for granted that this guy just lines up as an island with no support ever and doesn't get beat um which like yeah that happens against Everybody Plays um so yeah L Johnson's top five I take it there's no debate there or we may get shut down no not at all I mean if you told me he was top one he you told me he was a top one offensive lineman in the NFL I would not argue with you yeah and then the backups you can sort of they're all a bit weird aren't they and we haven't got Dyan McMahon here because he's not on the 53 he would be on the backup um I think he might actually have a r if Jerkins goes down so the Eagles have got four currently so Fred Johnson Trevor Keegan Tyler Steen and Daran Kennard um I guess we can put like the tackles together Fred Johnson and Kenard as backups just because we haven't seen it there's a part of me that wants to put Fred Johnson as a replacement level quality role player just because of preseason um but I've just not seen him do it in season so it probably would have to be a backup at this point um agree disagree I agree and that's where I would probably put Trevor Keegan as well for now he's a backup uh he's purely Developmental and he may exceed that one day but for this year I would be really concerned if he ends up having to start half the season it just feels weird giving Tyler Steen a better grade than mikai beckon because the Eagles clearly don't think that he is better um so I'm sort of tempted to put him on the same level as beckon as a quality role player spot starter replacement level because the end of the day I trust the Eagles decision- making when it comes to offensive line a lot and let's be honest this wasn't really a competition like the second Baldi came out and said bexon's gonna start I was like oh baly knows baly knows when Baldi talks offensive lineman in the Eagles he's been Lane Johnson's been in his ear when they're lifting weights or something in their gym or whatever um so the second he came out and was like oh yeah bexon's going to start and then beckon just doesn't even dress in half the preseason games I'm like oh okay uh I have a feeling that this training camp wasn't really A great battle I think it was more of a you're going to start for us so I I can't really give Tyler Ste a better grade because then it's seems like I'm doubting Jeff stoutland and I don't really want to be doing that is that fair yeah I think that's fair enough so on the offense we have one two three four five All Pro Caliber three Pro Bowl caliber two quality starter with upside uh and then three spot starters three high-end role players and one two three four five six backup SL special teamers so that's the offensive side of the ball um before we get over to the defensive side Johnny any any quick reactions to the Eagles offensive 53 man roster yeah I mean everyone worries about depth as everyone does in every sport but you can't really replace top guys like the end of the day if AJ Brown goes down the Eagles aren't going to replace him if l Johnson goes down the Eagles aren't going to replace him you do your best but it's an incredibly talented offense I think it's G like this is not to hate on any other podcast that National guys do I sound like such an eagles Homer this year because I really do think the Eagles lower than they should be and I'm not saying that as like a a fan who's always going to say the Eagles going to win the Super Bowl I'm really not that guy I'm actually quite a pessimist when it comes to Sports in general of my team I don't get how I've listened to podcast shame where the Eagles aren't the top 10 offense but like multiple guys and I'm looking at it and I'm like how like someone tell me how and even if you think Kell Mo's okay like okay he's had top 10 offenses most of his career um you've got a QB that I think is at worst calibra you've got two outstanding receivers you've got a top five running back you've got two Elite tackles you've got an elite guard like I Know Anything Could Happen an injuries can happen and I get the depth is a little bit shaky but again not every team has great wide receiver fours and wide receiver fives like not every team has great depth of tackle and every team has a good starting tackle let alone a good third so I can't really believe that a lot of guys don't see the Eagles in the top 10 and if I'm wrong I will openly come back and tell everyone that okay we were wrong all I was wrong don't want to put words in your mouth but it just looks like really talented like I really struggle to look at the offense and think they're not going to score ahead of a lot of points this year yeah same I mean you're you're you're just you're down on Jaylen Herz you think last year is what Jaylen Herz is uh if you don't think the Eagles will have a top 10 offense this year because outside of injuries the only way that I think they're not a top 10 offense this year is if Jaylen Herz proves that he's not the guy and I certainly don't expect that but I think there's a lot of people out there that do I also think it's a what have you done for me lately league and a lot of people just stick with what they saw at the end of the year when the eagles look totally helpless against the Blitz and they think that Jaylen Herz has been figured out and I guess I guess we'll see we'll see real fast uh next Friday in Brazil yeah I'm going to say something like very controversial as well so I'll do it very very quickly um like there's a mass massive elephant in the room which is Jason Kelce Jason Kelce is one of the best offensive lineman I've ever watched I think the Eagles are going to dearly miss him and anyone says they aren't is kidding themsel but he is and this sounds bad he is one player and he's a center and in pass protection a lot he's not exactly lining up one-on-one with big defensive tackles and winning one-on-one like he's he's not I don't know this is a controversial thing to say that I think I'd rather lose Kelsey than someone like Lan Johnson still at tackle I think there are ways you can manufacture the Run game and cam Jurgens is so similar athletically he's obviously not going to be Jason Kelce and Jason Kelce is incredible but basically everything else has got better like except for losing Jason Kelce I have a player should improve with age or they've actually got a better player Sequon Barkley huge upgrade in my opinion huge upgrade I don't think Swift was anywhere near as good as others did as you know um Johan doson over quz Watkins is absolutely massive like Jordan my a year older and dick in a year on um I just think that downgrade from Kelsey to Jurgens is not big enough to offset the huge amount of upgrades they make so yeah I I'll say something a little bit controversial in the room but I think they'll be fine with that Jason Kelce as good as he is um he is one player and I think the Eagles have got enough to make do without him yeah all right well let's roll on to the defensive side of the ball um let's start with okay I I tried to label these like nose tackle and defensive tackle but uh we'll just go down the list here Jordan Davis um where would you put Jordan Davis on this list I oh my goodness this is the one that I struggle with the most um I'm not going to call him a quality starter he's year one to three I could go starting upside but if I'm really honest I'd probably put highend role player I could be persuaded by a starter upside though um maybe to avoid hate on Twitter I'll go I'll go oh that's a really tough one um those are the two I was between I it's between highend role player because he's I think he's exceptional at what he does as a run Defender and I saw you know I saw some things that he was able to do in the pass game early last year before things started falling apart so um I'm kind of between the high-end role player and quality starter with upside I would probably lean quality starter upside that also might have to do with how highly I had him ranked in the draft prospect I think he was the number 13 player on my board that year um because again I'm going to bet on athletic traits and try to try to work out the rest later so I probably lean quality starter upside but I'll go high-end role player if that's where you want to take it because it was between those two I think I would go high-end role player right now there's just flashes but I want to see more he could get to easily out get to Pro Bowl but I I'm not seeing it just yet um right should we do the starters again on the defensive line we'll do it that way um I we up next we have jayen Carter and Milton Williams I take it we're going to both agree jayen Carter all top five already absolutely yeah I think if he's not if he's not seen by that by the national media by week one he will be by week 10 is how I think I thought you were gonna say if he's not seen that way by week one he'll be seen that way by week two oh right no it know it takes guys a little bit of time to get but I think he's going to absolutely go not this year Milton Williams oh um could I I guess I'd go quality starter um I would go tier three would you go higher or I would probably go lower I actually had I I had him kind of between quality role player and high-end role player oh no that's that's a bad opinion at the very least he's got to be quality he's got be quality starter upside um because the thing is this is where it's weird when you judge players like Jordan Davis is judged differently because he was a first- round pick I get that but he's also judged differently because he sort of has to be because he plays a very different role like I think for what Milton I think for what you want as your defensive tackle like what I'm trying to say is does Milton Williams go to a team and not be like defensive tackle free like is he not just good enough to be a starter is there any team that Milton Williams wouldn't play like significant amount of staps that plays a similar style um yeah I don't know on that okay I'll go with you no why don't we go yellow then why don't we go start or upside why don't we go tier four not yet there but he's year one to threee we can use this rule to our favor that we keep rinsing so if they get better we can be like well we did say he has the upside to do it um wait is this just his third year this is his fourth year oh is it really is he he's not done three has he done three years in the leag this is his contract year so he this is it unless Eagles resign him I want to do quality starter and I don't care what people think all right let's do it right and then the Eagles had two more defensive no I guess three more because Thomas Booker I guess if you count as a um as a DT so I'll do it in order of D4 so I had Morrow Ajo I guess you went all pro calibra top five yeah um and Moro Ajo I had him Pro Caliber personally yeah just yeah just he not as high as him on me um no I would uh as it's currently stands starter upside is that fair am I too high I think so yeah I I I kind of had him as a high-end role player because I think he's really good as a run Defender um but yeah given his age and stuff I can I'm definitely can see the quality starter upside so I'll put him there and then um the other two guys we've got I feel sorry for Thomas Booker because we haven't really seen him he had a really really good preseason really happy he made the roster he stood out in the third game in particular to me um and I tweeted I think he'll make it um but I think we just haven't seen anything from him um to suggest that he is anything other than a backup special teamer um I guess you agree with that and then tootu I don't know like I just don't see a lot really like sometimes I do sometimes I don't um I'll go back up special teamer as well um I liked the guy whose name I can't pronounce is it PJ Mustafa um he stood out more in preseason but I also recognize it's preseason who the hell cares so I'm not going to worry too much about him not making it but I'd probably go back up special teamer I think they're a little light after their top four guys um do you disagree with those two I do not Marlon tuu is the guy I was most surprised uh made the 53 I thought he wouldn't make it yeah yeah he was um yeah he was probably mine as well um he was one of them anyway I had a feeling that he wouldn't make it I think Edge could be the hardest one to do out of everything actually Edge and to honest everything on defense is lot harder on offense offense is easy there's like five absolute Superstars um defense is hard um do you want to take us away with the let's do Edge and then linebacker how do you have the edge guys or starters ranked so Josh sweat I think I would say quality starter um he gives you he's more than a role player he's been a consistent starter for them um last year wasn't great the year before was quite a bit better um I think I would just say he's a quality starter I mean Josh SWAT leaves in free agency I think he's going to get paid to go be a starter somewhere so that's kind of where I would put him y I'd agree with that and I would put Bryce Huff in the same spot me too we haven't seen it yet we we haven't seen him be a full-time starter he's going to be this year I think there's there's potential he's a better player than that there's also a potential he's not but right now I think quality starter is how you feel um about him Brandon Graham is tough because he doesn't play a ton anymore and I don't know that he could I don't know that his body at his age could take the amount of snaps it would take to be considered a quality starter but I think the play he gives in those snaps is of that caliber but I'll say he's a high-end role player for now yeah can can you expect I mean Brandon Graham's not going to be a starter is he on many on many teams so I would go highend role player as well um should I take it away with a fun one then Nolan Smith um is there is there the category of just like the I have no idea like um I mean he has to be he has to be a spot starter role player tier six I don't think you can say he's a backup special teamer I think that'd be a bit harsh because even if you can't rush a quarterback that well I think he's good enough as a run player so at least be a role player because at the very least he's a very very good run Defender he gives it his all he's a very sort of tough physical player who can get around he'll make plays because of his athleticism um I think the highest you could go his quality starter upside um he does have starting potential but I think that would be generous based on what we've seen so far although I must admit seeing as I've gone from the Nan Smith hater to like now I feel quite like middling in my opinion noan Smith because the fan base is fully turned like that preseason game seemed to just like I've been saying this since last year I've saying it since pre-draft I was anti noden Smith he wanted to draft him at like 10 I was I was basically early second round I was okay with it at 30 and but but I didn't really see him as a pass rusher I said in my beding green film review he could be an off ball linebacker because I didn't see him as a pass rusher I got absolutely killed as you can imagine in the comments from certain people um yeah so but now I've gone from being like the noan Smith Defender because now all of a sudden people think he's absolutely useless I'm like well no at the very worst he's a good run Defender who's extremely athletic who's young like you can do worse don't get me wrong he's can't spin inside to save his life right now but like you can do a lot worse from a from a player he can at least play The Run he's at least very athletic he can at least run around a lot and make some like weird and wonderful plays every week so I don't think I'm going to drop any lower than that although I think there'll be some people that put him in practice squad based on what I've seen on online of late yeah I I'll go with quality role player for him as well uh jayx hunt yeah it's it's it's hard for me to put him above a backup right now because I mean he is like Edge five and the description for backup is purely developmental I see an onramp to Quality role player especially for a guy like fangio that likes to drop his his edges so much but yeah I still think until I see him do it I I would have him listed as a backup special teamer yeah um I don't know preseason maybe think he could jump up one but I'm probably just like buying into the hype too much I think this time next year we might be having a different conversation about jix h but I think it's fair to say right now he's oh oh I don't know Shane is backup special team a harsh I'm looking at the people we've got the other backup special team was like Tu Pou Kar Catia kavy tan mcki am I being harsh bump him up one I think jayx hunt falls into the purely developmental portion of that definition where some of these other guys just fall into the depth player portion like I think you can be a backup for different reason so for me hunt he's the developmental Guy versus like Tu Pou uh Daran canar those guys are just depth players yep and then I take it Patrick Johnson we will go back out special teamer as well just depth at this point yeah agreed yeah nothing major to add there um right linebacker is very weird i l my goodness this is getting harder I don't know it's still linebacker um um is Deon white a quality starter um depends who your ask depends what game you watch from last year if you watch the 49ers game from last year you give him practice squad I mean on the sliding scale of Philadelphia linebackers he's like Pro Bowl caliber but if we're judging from a League wide perspective I think you say quality starter because if you think about you know teams playing two linebackers is he in the top like 64 linebackers in the NF fell probably so um you could also argue like high-end role player for his pass rushing ability and things but I I think I would say Devon White's quality starter yeah he's not a role player because he's too good in coverage he can do two things really well rush and cover um run defense is inconsistent um yeah just he if you really want like Deon W don't watch the 49ers ever play against de white because honestly watching that game was like something else the poor man had no idea what was going on with k and just completely and utterly um ruined him that game I'll I'll give you quality starter I actually think I would then be really strange I'm just GNA say all mine at once because I feel like I'd lump them together I would have the guy the Eagles are gonna start as a quality role player um tier six um Zack B then I would have the three guys below him higher than him because I sort of like them more I would put the Kobe Dean Jeremiah Trotter and Shane I would put Ben vanan as a quality star upside I really think B Ben vanam could be like the Wild Card like super athletic I watched him quite a lot when he played last year I watched him the preseason he's just so fast and he gets around so quickly um and it's weird watching an eagles linebacker having sideline sideline speed I genuinely do think he could be a um future starter like I really really do um and I think Trot is nowhere near as athletic but he could be a starter because of his instincts um like we could see those three guys could be the eagle starting linebackers next year the Kobe D and Jeremiah trto and Ben vanum if things go well am I taking crazy pills putting those three above Zack Bourne considering the coaches are making him start what do you think I had ncoe Dean and troter Jr both is quality starter upside for Dean he's just got to stay healthy I think he's good he's just can't stay healthy Trotter you can see it I really like Ben van Sumer and I'm not sure that I would put him up there at this point um based on what we've seen I would probably put him as like a quality role player um for the Eagles yeah the thing is I watched him as a udfa and I liked him and then he made the roster he look good so for the brand it' be amazing if he could be good like the brand could do I've already got a Joo on defense like I've already got Nan Smith not being great it's all going well people forget everything I've ever said that's wrong we'll just focus on the good stuff um I I really do think Ben vansan could do it man like I would I would fight for his corner to put him as a starting upside as well and if you get bad comments you can just send them to me I just he's just so athletic like you just watch like I watch DAV onaya I'm sorry dve on pick on that man so much he could never play like Ben vanu was udfa and you watch him game one you're like oh we can play like you can just see it you can see that he can play in this league immediately um what a great pick that was by the way udfa made the roster first year I should made Russ last year I don't know if he did it cup day but he did obviously play in the season and now he's made it his second year um so fair play um that's a hard one though I I think people could be all over the place on those I think some people could be harer on Zack B some people could be higher I think some people will be way higher on the Kobe demonos and some people will be far lower on Dean and Trotter um you could really have them a little bit all over the place which is not surprising because the Eagles and it's linebackers well because it's all projection Zack bonds pass rusher ncoe Dean played like 200 NFL snaps Trotter played zero Ben van sueran is the second year udfa that barely played so it's a lot of projection you know what so weird Shane if we were to both start NFL teams right now and you were to say oh I'll take I'll get my I'll get first two picks at linebacker I'll take the d white and Zack Bourne that's what the Eagles are doing and I got picked four and five and I picked trotor and Ben vansan am I convinced that Devin white and Zack Bourne are better than trotor and Ben vansan I'm I'm honestly not like I I'm honestly not that convinced that they would be better whereas if you take like another position you take like defensive tackle and you go I've got Jaylen Carter and Milton Williams you've got two ploto and Thomas Booker it's there's not many other positions on Eagles roster where you I'm not saying that like to be controversial I I genuinely think there is an argument that in a year's time you could have that like order completely reversed like I know Devon white will probably be the best still because I think he is still got just incredibly high potential but he's had some bad games in the league um and Zack bour has just never started so it's a it's easily the weirdest position um on the Eagles roster right now because I'm not saying that's be controversial I would feel pretty good walking out with Ben vanum and Jeremiah Trotter I feel like I could do all right as a defensive coordinator with those two starting um but there we go I mean it can't it can't be worse than sha Leonard and literally Zack Cunningham so yeah exactly Nicholas marrow Zack Cunningham Shack Leonard like oh my goodness we had to watch that every week um yeah sha Leonard that's I think I got PTSD from Shack and Dav on I don't think they ever played together which is probably a positive because that would have been the worst linebacker Duo there has ever been and one of them would have no idea what was doing and one would have no idea or the one that would be able to see it just would be able to make the tackle if you could combine the two of them that'd actually be okay sha Le's brain and Davon Taylor's Body would probably work quite well but separate separately um not so much right we've gone really off the rails there at linebacker just like it's okay let's uh let's go back uh cornerback um let's take the starters so Darius Slay quality starter uh yeah he's between like quality starter Pro Bowl caliber for me but given the age I I I I'll say quality starter I'd have to look at top I'd have to at quarterbacks around the league as well like I don't know um he is really good Darius Slay he is really good um you know what top 10 H maybe we're being harsh so you think about top cornerbacks um I'm thinking of Pro Bowl as well like it's a weird way of labeling it because who the hell likes to Pro Bowl anymore yeah um but I can imagine sner Patrick ceran jayen Ramsey Trent McDuffy Jaylen Johnson Jer Alexander lerus sne yeah Denzel won Marlon Humphrey yeah Texans guy as well um Stingley Stingley Stingley is gonna be up there DJ I think Darius Le is like right on depends if you count like safety hybrid nickols as well in the account like your Brian branches as well um yeah yeah interesting uh let's make a decision you decide I think I'm sort of I think I would go quality starter still yeah I I'm with you we'll do as I start naming those guys off I think I think he's quality starter um where you want to go next are we going to assume Isaiah Rogers will play more snaps than quinan Mitchell or who knows them together I think Mitchell is the starter in base and then he kicks inside in nickel Is What It Seems like so Mitchell starter upside yeah it's hard for me to say anything other than quality starter upside because he played 50 snaps in the preseason now I was really high on Mitchell I think he's going to be a really good player it's hard for me to put much more on him than that and for for I mean Cooper de jeene is the same way for me I think Cooper deene is quality starter upside do we just Ringo deene and Mitchell all as quality starter upside um it's boring but they are aren't they they're all young guys that haven't yeah I this is where it's weird as well I sort of prefer Ringo to a Rogers so I'd be tempted to put Ringo as a quality starter but I don't think we've seen just enough from Ringo yet and the Very fact that the Eagles are putting Rogers above him they must like what they see so maybe we go quality starter on Rogers but that feels weird because having slay and Rogers in the same category feels odd to me I just I haven't seen much isah Rogers like play almost two years so I'm with you I prefer I prefer Ringo to Rogers but I do think Rogers is a quality starter so I'll go on that as well yeah Fair let's go quality starter um that's quite a tough position as well but not as hard as linebacker and then I think the next one's also um quite difficult um Eli ri's backup special team yeah Eli Rex I even see yeah I was a little surprised he made the roster in some ways but maybe not I think good on special teams I assume um yeah I would go back out special teamer okay uh then on to safety chy Gardner Johnson where would you have him oh man eagles's gonna hate me if we don't put him Pro bable calibra um I don't have him Pro B caliber no he I mean the league told you what they think um because they didn't pay him and he didn't get much did he the year before I think he plays like uh like his m ality is is of a all proo caliber um is he actually I think this is a tricky one because in the eagle system he's so so good like I think you can argue the fangio defense in a bubble he's almost like perfect um for that nickel safety hybrid um but I think you have to go stter um Quality starter yeah I think so that's what I have yeah I think so um I think he's Verity makes him like almost more important for the Eagles um I don't know if annoy people but Reed blanken ship I'd got the same I go quality starter personally okay I I had him as a high-end role player what um I think he's better than that I think banken ship's uh I don't know I seems like Bank ship more than everyone else I'm a bit like what does he not do well um he runs pretty well he tackles very well he comes down very quickly the Box this is only his third year we can say he's quality starter upside brilant stick him in there I like that I like that better than saying he's a highend role player he struggles a little bit with coverage versities man coverage can be he'll get beat by good tit end and good receivers but I think overall he is a a very I think I think he's a very good player I like him a lot yeah um now we get weird MX yeah I just don't know like we haven't seen him properly at safety I think he can do I I guess he's a highend role player slash no I think I'd give him a highend role player the one below that's what I had and then James Bradbury everyone's going to want to give him practice squad or backup special teamer um I think at safety I'd go one above and go quality role player I think he might have enough juice at safety um I think he made the roster let be onest because of cap partly but I think Vic seems to speak the truth Vic F already he seems to quite like what he's seeing from Raby he comes downhill and run defense a lot better than I expected like given given how bad of a tackler he was last year I did not expect him to come down from depth and make plays in The Run game at safety like he did in the preseason so yeah I would go quality role player for Brad B and then one below for Tristan McCollum backup special teamer I know everyone was outraged if he didn't make the team I led that charge apparently yeah because he flies around like a 100 miles an hour yet I've never seen him in coverage so it's like I get it in preseason he's to doubt but he must have impressed the coaches because he did make it um speaking of a guy that flies around and is never in coverage Sydney Brown is on the pup list another guy that I would personally I would die for Sydney brown but uh where where do you have Sydney Brown Nat you've got your non-bias take out the way um I put him in the same as the Ringo the jeene Trot the Kobe Dean and the quality starup out side I think he could easily be a starter by the end of the year um I think he's going to always be more of a role player than every down player but I think he can do a number of different RS well and he's also just awesome to watch on film so why the hell not all right and that wraps up our defense so any quick thoughts on the defense and then we'll label the Special Teams and get out of here yes so just quickly because you added them all up with your crazy math which might be harder for the defense because they've got very defense heavy um but essentially they've got what five Super start on offense and that doesn't even include Darius Slay if you include Pro bow sorry Darius Slay Devonte Smith if you include all pro and pro bowl on offense we're talking eight no nine eight eight of 11 starters on offense one of 11 starters on defense we've just got jayen Carter yeah um so but but then again I think the actual starting unit is pretty strong what I think is really obvious when you look at this on paper is all my goodness eagles need Jordan Davis to be good if Jordan Davis isn't good like I think this thing might come crashing down in run defense because there's not a lot behind him like AJ Mo and mil Williams are good but they're not those tackles they're not playing zero technique um they're three techniques ideally four ey techniques in the fiveman front um ajo's like strong but he's 290 pound strong he's not he's not Jordan Davis size um and then everything else is just a bit random like honestly this could look so different on defense for the end of the year you could have a different starting linebacker a different St quarterback probably not different St safties but you never know Sydney Brown being back yet on offense you look at them and go that they're going to be your stars maybe beckon changes maybe there's an injury but if you take out injuries offense is set defense is really really random um like the events could be anywhere between like what seventh best defense and 22nd best defense this year like it could just really it's going to come down a lot to how well fio can coach him up um but it's a pretty it's a pretty fun unit I got to Adit there's been worst evenes I've watched it's a pretty fun group even if I'm not sure about everyone yeah you can tell where a lot of the draft Capital has been invested over the last few years because if you just look at the Quality starter upside on offense there's two on defense there's 10 counting Sydney Brown who's on the pup list so and Ben vanan who's a udfa but which is iy taking it but I let you I'll direct that to you so um to be honest Moro Jomo maybe a little iffy there as well wow I just I just realized you have I just realized you have Moro aomo in a higher tier than Jordan Davis yeah that's not gonna go down well is it that's well should we drop should we drop AO to the same tier as Davis I think we probably should um yeah until he until he dos to pass rush fair enough did we drop Ben bansum as well um no screw it you can put an like Johnny page n next to Ben Van's name if you want just bring the hate to me sounds good the good news is hopefully he doesn't play so I can't really be wrong either because if he doesn't play very much well can't prove it that's true unless the linebackers are a a dumpster fire like last year and everybody's like well Johnny said Ben van suer and is a quality starter why is he not out there no I said starting potential then we can just tell everybody Vic fangio doesn't know what he doing with sha Desa and Matt Patricia but we can play The Greatest Hits I hope it doesn't come to that this year but uh real quickly before we get out of here let's talk special teams obviously they keep Jake Elliott Rick levado and Braden man no surprises there uh for Jake Elliot I would put Jake Elliott in that Pro that All Pro Caliber I mean I think he's got the potential to be a top five kicker uh missed extra point SL field goal in the first preseason game notwithstanding uh do you where do you have Jake Elliott I hate to break it to you Shane but if anyone's ever heard me talk all right special teams are not my thing at all um so I'm going to put Jake Elliot as a top five because he doesn't miss and I think the kickers not missing is good so I'm going to go Jake Elliot uh All Pro Caliber and then I really don't know much about they got the long snap of the bunter I don't recall them being a problem so I'm going to go they are good starters and you can tell me if I'm horrendously wrong I'm with you they they must be quality starters I've not noticed them so that works for me y um yeah there we go that's the Eagles 53 man rostar on Skype in a very weird way uh yeah hopefully this comes this hopefully you guys are actually hearing this because the recording's all worked yeah we may have just talked into a mic for an hour and no one will ever hear it you know you hear of things like that it's never happened to me you do it's a bit scary it's a bit scary if not we'll just tweet the graphic out and then people can just make their own minds off and imagine what we'd say we probably haven't said anything that will shock too many people based on our previous opinions anyway um but yeah there we go overall Shane uh pretty good roster like little bit topheavy but you know what if I could philosophically give me an elite offense and a defense with pieces that could work like yeah I think everyone's a little bit further down on the Eagles than I am this year I think it's a very boring take but it's going to come down to the coordinators isn't it it's going to come down to what kellmore and fio can do if they have really good coaching years I think Harry has done a good job giving them both the talent um they need to respectively do what they need to do like the eagles are not trying to have a top five defense this year I think they've got enough um pieces there ano can't get this unit to average and I think that's a little bit of a worry and Kenmore can't make the top five six offense I think that's also a bit of a worry personally there we go yeah all right well there you guys have it we only have one episode left to fill until we're getting to week one film reviews and we've got a special season preview plan for you guys uh we are going to be joined by Brandon Lee gon from bleeding green Nation so you guys be sure and tune in to what will hopefully be a live podcast because surely by then streamyard will be fixed um and we'll break down season expectations and predictions with blg that'll be a fun show so you guys come out and show your support to that one uh you can follow us on Twitter uh be sure you follow the podcast at Eagles pinple we tweet tweet out promo clips from nearly every episode again five star ratings and reviews are greatly appreciated follow us on Twitter I am at Shane half NFL he is at Johnny page9 and we will catch you guys next time [Music] a