Jenna Ortega & Michael Keaton Talk Beetlejuice, Tim Burton & Career Pressures | Epic Conversation

- Beautifully. - That's harder, I think- - Christina absolutely- - For you to say, - Killed it in the '90s. - "Here's my version of it." - Definitely more pressure but I also like to think about it because, I mean, "Beetlejuice" was only Tim's second movie, right? It must have been such a strange conversation to be, "Okay, so there's this 'Peewee's Big Adventures' guy." - Totally. [upbeat spooky music] - When did you first start? - I dropped out of school to make some money so I could go back, and I started working in this little public television station in Pittsburgh, doing anything I could anywhere. And, you know, at a public station, they'd shoot these little 16 millimeter films, and I was on a crew, so I'd set up a couple lights and they'd need a guy to walk by and say something. I said, "I'll do that." I started becoming more ambitious about it and actually put myself out there. I wanted to act, but I loved standup so much, and the beauty of standup then and now is, you're not waiting around to get hired. And I never did, like, jokes-jokes. I created scenes so I could play characters and things. - Did you bomb? - A few times, but oddly, at the beginning, I didn't. I mean, I kind of, off the bat, I went boom, and I got asked back in New York, me and Larry David, and I'd just met him. - Nice. - I met this guy standing next to me in freezing cold, waiting outside in line to sign up. He was in a fatigue jacket, an old, like, army jacket. That was his actual jacket from the army, I think. And then, so like that, and then we did that, and on a whim, I moved to LA for the summer to get started, and then I don't know what happened. I just started auditioning. I didn't know anybody. - I had no idea you did stand up. Oh, man, now I really feel like a journalist. Do you... Comedy, drama, is there anywhere your heart lies more, or is it really just dependent on the character or your experience? - Totally dependent on the thing. Yeah, I thought so. - A hundred percent. That thing of, well, comedy is really, you know, death is easy, comedy is hard. It's cliched and it's kind of true. If you want to be good at it, comedy's harder, but if you think of it like that all the time, I think it gets in your way. But if you wanna be really good at it's about timing, it's about does the timing work inside this vehicle, and is my style correct for the thing? Do you play small, do you play big, and all that. I don't know, I don't really analyze it very much. - Yeah, well, that's also why there's that conversation- - Which are very dry. - Yeah, it's hard though, I think I... Because no one is aware of whether or not I'm being serious. - Yeah, which I love. - As much as it pains me to admit, you were right, mother. I think I'm going to love it here. - You sometimes get the tiniest crack in the corner. Now, see [chuckles]- - That's me pretending that it's not happening. - Because you figure, "Well, if I give in to really, like, laughing. - No, it gives it, yeah. - It's too vulnerable? - Oftentimes, it's credit. Maybe it's that, maybe it's like a swallowing of... I can't let them know. - Yeah, yeah, so what's that about? - I'm not entirely sure. - Were you like that when you were little-little? - No, when I was little, I was just very bubbly. - Silly and open and bubbly. - Yeah, always wanted to chat up the adults at the birthday party. and I was very- - At what point did that change? - 16 or 17. I've really gone inside myself in recent years. Maybe it's just like insecurity, or I think also being a young adult for the first time and feeling the weight of the world and responsibility and my career is in a very different place than when I first started, I was like 9 or 10, so I think that kind of pressure, if you're not familiar with it. I had never really been affected by opinions or thoughts of others, and I think that, you know, when you get older and, you know, there's so many people on your team, you're having all these conversations, and so many people have an opinion on your life and what you should do with your life, and what's right and what's wrong. And I think as a young person, and potentially because of the day and age that it is now with the internet, I think that sometimes, it just feels, the pressure feels more substantial. I'm also an immense overthinker, so I think that it- - You're gonna pass through it. You're gonna like, have to come out the other end of it, but, I mean, I got a lot to say about that. So when you got the call, you already knew "Beetlejuice" and "Batman." You said, "Oh yeah, I definitely wanna meet that person." - Well, yeah, I mean, Tim- - Or did they just say- - Hey, you know something? I just remembered yesterday as well. I remember auditioning for "Dumbo." I actually auditioned for "Dumbo." - Really? - I was like 14 or something like that and I was so excited. I couldn't believe that Tim was making a movie. It had been a minute. I was like, "Ah, man, this would just be an incredible opportunity." I was very used to being told no. Like, you know, 'cause they tell actors don't have, you know, feel some type of way about that. But I remember "Dumbo" being one that for weeks, I was just gutted and I thought, "Oh, like, what if I never get the opportunity to work with him again?" - Oh wow. Did you tell him that? - No, no. - When you first worked with him, it was on the show. - Correct. - Right, right, right. - The first time that I worked with him, because TV moved so fast and you're trying to get so many pages, so many scenes in a day, maybe that kind of made him nervous. I don't think he had done TV before and he was always very kind, very considerate. But I wasn't used to him being so trusting of the people that he hires. So by the time I got to "Beetlejuice" it was so refreshing because I understood that when he didn't give notes or when he didn't have much feedback on the acting portion, it was more so because he was allowing me to just do whatever I felt I needed to do. And if he really had something to say, then he would say it. - I don't think we have a process. I'm not trying to be anything. It's just he's so unbelievably visual. But once you buy into that, you say, "I really like this world. I like his way of thinking." Then you say, "Oh, okay. I wanna fit into your world. So here's my contribution to it. You know, here's what I wanna do." I attended Juilliard. I'm a graduate of Harvard Business School. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and I had a pretty good time during that. I've seen "The Exorcist" about 167 times. And it keeps get funnier every single time I see it. I think the first day I showed up on "Beetlejuice" I just started going and then he said, "Oh, okay, let me now show you some of these sets and here's what's gonna happen in this set. I gotta do a photo shoot for GQ in about an hour and a half. They've been after me for months doing some kind of underwear deal, I don't know what. And there's discussion, but there's not that much discussion during the shoot, do you think? - No, no. Not at all. I think that's what threw me off guard as well, because first character I had with him Wednesday Addams obviously, there's been so many interpretations already. She wasn't an original character. So I really wanted to talk to him about what that looked like in his world and his perspective. And he just didn't have much to say. He just kind of... So I think that, that stressed me out a little bit. But once I saw the sets and once I spoke to him a little, and obviously having so much of his film history to look back on, it changed my physicality immensely. - Really? - Yeah, the way that depending on how tight we are, how far we are, it completely alters the way that I stand, the way that I carry myself. His visual direction. - That's interesting. - [Jenna] Yeah, really. - Yeah 'cause you're really fitting into the picture. Literally to the picture. - Very still, no swinging of the arms, perfect posture. No blinking, you know, like it was a whole- - That's interesting. It's true, I didn't think about that. It's actually harder, isn't it, to play a character that's been done two, three, four times before. - I wouldn't say that it's harder 'cause I don't, I can't think of "Beetlejuice." I can't compare anyone to "Beetlejuice." - Right, that's why, in a weird way, it's kind of easier. I said, "Here's what I'm gonna do." You know, it's not like anything or anybody. It's just, this is just what I'm doing. Oh, that's what you're doing? I love that. Well then if you're doing that, then let's do this. And I'd say, "Oh cool, what if I go up to the tree?" And you know, the Wednesday character had been played in other media, right? - Yeah, and so beautifully. - That's harder, I think. - Christina absolutely- - For you to say- - Killed it in the '90s - "Here's my version of it." - Definitely more pressure. But I also like to think about it because I mean, "Beetlejuice" was only Tim's second movie, right? It must have been such a strange conversation to be, "Okay, so there's this 'Peewee's Big Adventures' guy." - Totally, I'd seen "Peewee's" but I don't think... Honestly, to be honest with you I don't think I ever saw it all the way through at that point. So I meet him and you know how he speaks. And he's way more verbal now than he was then. I didn't know what he was talking about. I mean, he was trying to explain it to him. It wasn't bad. It was actually interesting. A few days ago by and I had another meeting. I just know this guy is something, and he had said a couple things that gave me an idea, like, he's from any time period or he is of no time. He disappears. He might live in the ground or something. I went, "Wow, live in the ground." We never rehearsed. I never showed him anything. He was very clear about the striped suit. He was very clear about the white and the big dark eyes. And I started meeting, I had caught a makeup person and I talked about my hair and I wanted to do this and that. I said, "I want to like that." - Electrified. - Yeah. But I didn't think of the color. He came up with a color, I guess, or she did. I forget. But anyway, the advantage was we didn't know what we were gonna make. He knew, that's was the other thing. It was so fun to make. And I only worked like 15 days or something. You ready for this? There's gonna be a screening of that movie you did with that guy Tim and I go, "Oh yeah, okay." With an audience, you know, they're gonna screen it with an audience. And I went to see it. It was death, crickets. People's face kind of going like this and I thought, "Oh man, that's too bad. That was really fun." And then I saw a trailer and I went, "This is the greatest thing I've ever seen." I hope the movie's that good, but it's fun to walk on a set, isn't it? - Yeah, oh, it's unlike anything you've ever seen before. It was the first time I had ever done coverage and been told to put like, put a slight bend in my left knee so that I was straight. [Michael and Jenna laughing] It's oddly messy. - Perfectly bent? - Yeah, which is so funny considering the name and status and legacy that he holds. I don't know how similar the experience is to when you first shot with him versus now. - Very. - But it, yeah, it just feels very casual. - And it's fun, isn't it? - Yeah, so fun. I love that he doesn't have the shot list. He doesn't have any idea what he's gonna do that day. - But he does. - He just does it. But for the most part, you know, he likes to keep it short and quick. The first time I met with him, it was five minutes long. We exchanged almost nothing. And there were some mornings on sets that've worked with him where he just, he doesn't even say much, he just shows me the image. We strangely have a very similar sense of humor. If I laugh, I know he would probably laugh and vice versa. So we've done a thing now where we almost speak in our own little sign language and it's- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially when you're going every day. - You see it in "Beetlejuice" and you see it in "Batman" and you know, he's very graphic. What he actually needs, it's not like he has to overshoot or recover something. Because a lot of it is so focused on silhouette or certain light or and if he likes one shot, he doesn't really wanna deviate from it. Everything else is just kind of a waste. - What's the thing you said? I'm still open for interpretation? I realize that I, in fact, this person, I'm open for other people's interpretation of me. That's wild. It's a phase, you know? I mean, I think it'll last. - Is it a phase? - A hundred percent. - When do you think you- - Kind of up to you though. - Stopped feeling that way? - There were certain things that I was too stupid, I guess to even think about. - You've gotta just be like oblivious and confident enough to actually, and you had that as a- - Alejandro Inarritu said I'm the most, I'm saying what he said, is the most confident actor in the world I've known. And it didn't start out like that with he and I. I guess that's true. Well, to some degree, I know it's true, but part of it's 'cause I'm not smart enough to worry. Somewhere along the line made the decision, that's too much work. I'm too lazy to have to make myself too crazy, you know? I just don't have the interest in all that. Wait, I gotta go make a living. I gotta figure out what the job is, you know? Things are different. Also, I must say you're a woman. Judged way more. Young woman, judged even way more. And forget about social media. That like quadruples everything. I'm saying this to you're going, Jesus crazy. - No, I've already had the same... My brain has gone through that. I think I've like- - It's true though. - I've looked at everything from every angle I possibly could. - But you don't seem like you seem cool as the other side of the pillow, as they say. - I wouldn't say that I am, but I would say in this year, strangely. I'm so fortunate and lucky to be doing what I do. I actually enjoy going to work every day. You know, I figured it out when I was younger. I don't wanna stop doing what I'm doing, so I'm gonna keep doing it. And then the other things it's like how much I enjoy being on set. It's a very small price to pay. - You got it. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna touch it because you already figured it out. That's exactly it. - Anytime I get stressed out doing this sort of thing, it's never brought me anything in the first place. - If you were talk to one of your peers or someone your age, even if they're not in the business, would they be roughly in your, you know, on average, on average, you know, if you picked a friend or someone, a contemporary, either in the business or not in the business, where do you think, if you had a conversation for an hour, would you guys kind of be, you think they'd feel the same way you do? Or do you think you're different? - Well, I don't go, "Oh man, I'm different or I'm whatever." I think but I do, and I don't, again, I dunno if it's because I'm so analytical about things that I think sometimes it's hard for me to touch base with people my age. And part of that might be too working in such an adult environment since I was 9, 10. I'm probably most fearful around people my age because I don't know if I present myself a way that's, you know- - More mature. - Yeah, I feel like unrelatable or I feel like sometimes I have to speak differently or carry myself differently in order to assimilate myself because I do wanna connect. And I do have some people that I have been able, but it's very few and far between. Honestly, a majority of my friends that are my age, I've known since I was four. I went to school with them but again- - And you still hang with them when you can? - When I can, but that, I mean, it's less and less every year. I mean, I haven't seen them in over a year or something like that, you know? - That happens anyway, regardless of what you do. - And a lot of it is too is like, you know, you go to school with people, you spend all your time with that person. - And are they cool? Are they go- - I think they're cool. I think they're the sweetest. - Are they cool with you like going, they dig what you're doing, they're happy? - They're supportive, but only because they know it means something to me. They don't really care. Same thing with my family. Like, none of my siblings really care. - Oh, that's very healthy. - Yeah, I got lucky. - They're respectful of it but it's not like that. Yeah, that's where my family is for the most part. Not for the most part. It's exactly how they are. - It's so nice. - Because that could be... It's so nice. What a relief, right? Because can you imagine some of the craziest shit you hear from other families? People go nuts. People all of a sudden... Families like break apart because one person... My family was totally down. - I can't imagine that being any other way. That's a huge- - Huge. - If I didn't have that, if it wasn't that solid of a foundation, I think, I would really be screwed. Have you ever had to reel yourself back? - Daily. [laughs] From what? - I'm not saying in like a, "Oh, I am feeling myself kind of way," but potentially. - Oh yeah, like you start falling for yourself a little bit. - Yeah, you snap back to- - Yeah, yeah. Cusack said this thing and I can't ever remember what it is. A kick in the head. Daily, I see especially some politicians, you just wanna go, "Excuse me, just a little shot." Boom, I'll try the head to kind of go, "Oh yeah, all right, sorry," you know? Oh, for sure I did. For sure. I'd like to say no I was always down and cool and authentic. Nah, I'm sure there were periods where I was acting full of shit. But you're in a different time and different world. I hate to keep saying it, but women, it's harder a lot of the times 'cause more is expected, therefore, "Oh she didn't look very pretty today," you know? - Well, I feel it too. I mean, you could even do a scene with someone, a romantic scene, and suddenly you're being attacked for having to kiss a guy over, you know, it's a very different pressure. And it's obvious. It's so clear and like I- - Make clear when you're at work, you feel it? - More so like the press of it all. Yeah, when you're having to do the, you know, inviting people to come watch it. You could feel it even from crowds occasionally, the kind of like tension or I don't know. It's very easy for things to become misconstrued. - For sure, or blown out of proportion. - Yeah, or they love you and then they hate you and then they love you again. That's why you can't really... Well, if I follow that, I'm gonna have a heart attack. I think there's no normal way to go about it nowadays. And as someone who was also a people pleaser, I was so confused as to why- - It's exhausting. A young man in those early, like late teens to early 20s, that's a tricky time, man. That's a tricky time to be a guy. 'Cause you have an unusual occupation. You don't have a normal one. - I have this theory because I wanna go back to what you just said. You said, you know, about that time in your life being a very stressful time. I find that people, as someone who's in their 20s, often look back at their 20s and go, "Oh, you need to enjoy it. It's the best. Oh, I had so much fun in my 20s." That's, you know, when life really is, is that people romanticizing it because it's terrifying, is it not? - [laughs] That's a very good question 'cause mostly I think they are romanticizing it because that's an easy thing to say. And just because you are not, if there are some that are, or were, that doesn't mean it has to be that way for you. Like, you know, your 30s or 40s or 50s or 70s might be the greatest or maybe your teens were. Some of the stuff I look back and I go, "Oh boy, they were bad." Any year I thought of, "Oh, that was a rough year. That was terrible, but man, I was really sad during that time but you know what? There was something in there that was pretty good." You know what I mean, when I look back but you can't see it now. Don't expect yourself to see it now. You can't jump outta yourself and go, "Got it." That's a really difficult thing to do. That's an astute question. What if the answer is now those four years or two years or six months or whatever, they were pretty miserable. They probably were, so the world's not gonna end. So that was bad, and then they'll get good. - Then it gets worse and then- - It goes fast for sure. [Jenna laughing]