Greg Maddux | The Making Of A Legend | The Pure Athlete Podcast

Intro hey guys Jeff franor here thanks for listening to our content and please like And [Applause] subscribe hey guys Jeff Britt and Brad back with you uh what a great guest man that was awesome we had with Greg Maddox I mean you talk about the art of bitching like he's your post child right like didn't throw didn't have Pedro Martinez heater didn't have SMY slider but like go ahead real quick I mean know he's just sitting he's sitting in his den in Las Vegas and you're talking to a guy that just seems like a normal guy but I mean you look at his stats he pchs 23 years first vote Hall of Fame Braves Hall of Fame Cubs Hall of Fame World Series winner won four consecutive Sai Youngs only pitcher in the major leagues to win 15 games for seven straight Seasons 18 gold gloves eight time Allstar 355 career wins uh one of only 10 pitchers with more than 300 wins and 3,000 strikeouts uh and also as a fan you loved it cuz his gam didn't last very long oh two hours oh dude I yeah you could get to T I remember when I used to go to games man we'd be home by 9:30 yeah it was it was so fun and he was he was great to talk to I mean we all grew up in Atlanta you know you ended up playing with him fact did you ever hit against him I did in 2006 when he was with the Padres and it was a surreal moment for me three people I remember I faced that I I just was like first time I faced Randy Johnson first time I faced um uh Roger Clemens and then Maddox and it was 06 and I remember he threw me a first pitch probably that far off the plate the Umpire baled it and I just kind of backed out of the plate for a minute and all of a sudden I heard Maddox undress the um catching the ball back really and I remember turning around the Umpire like are you not going to do anything about this you that he kind of look that I mean next pitch same spot strike and I'm like I see how this is going to go but he you know what's awesome too is my wife's going to kill me for telling this story she is like I told her today she's like you better not tell it I'm GNA tell it 2010 Mike maddox's brother was the pitching coach with the rangers DE you know he just won it again but he came back to Texas so he was our pitching coach and we went to the World Series and Katie was got on the bus for game one of the World Series in San Francisco and I think one the cool thing with Greg and Mike they're like this man they're thick as siat Greg flew everywhere to support him this year they're great with each other and Katie is on the bus and Maddox sits right next to her great great yeah great great great to come to the field for game one and Katie starts talking to him and she's like oh did you did you ever go to a World Series she didn't know who he is Greg was just he could have been whatever and he just kind of was like yeah yeah you know I got a chance to play and a couple and this and that she finally put it together and growing up in ATL she knows going but after game one I'm sit on the bus and she goes you're going to kill me and she told me what she did and I was so embarrassed s went up to Maddox the next day you know and just but he's a guy that's not an imposing athlete you it would be an easy mistake to for sure I love it when we when we go Cabo on our golf trip every year it's so great because you have all these big athletes you know big baseball players you have Maddox and people are just probably like that's a caddy you know like they don't think but the advice he has which I love because I like it because in today's game he he is one guy that's a realist he says look if you have the lost to you that's only going to help you yeah but I think what he gives a great example to parents to coaches and this that you have to be able to pitch you have to game BL you have to pitch and if you can do that you're going to be a step ahead you talked a lot about mechanics uh and how that was the key the key was if if you got your mechanics right you're going to know where the ball's going to go yeah you know he also pitched his whole career you said 23 years no significant injuries and we dealt we we dove into that a little bit and and what we found out was you know he pitched when he was a kid 10 12 starts a year even through high school he wasn't pitching all year round and so he took care of his arm I I remember Max Scherer about that saying I'd rather have my bullets for when I'm in college yeah you know the minor League's coming up not when I'm 12 years old yeah I think Greg was a perfect example of that so great episode great awesome man he's he's one of the bests ever do it hope you enjoy it Jeff franor here with pure athlete before we get to today's guest I want to share with everyone that we have uh our first partnership with booster now booster is the high school sports number one athletic fundraising for teams and groups and uh their owner and CEO is a good buddy of mine go to church with them and a great guy and instead of me telling you what it is I'm going to bring him on so Chris Carnel thanks for joining us Jeff thanks so much so excited to Sponsor sponsor pure athlete love your message love your vision love the heart and the values behind it I'm a former College athlete I'm a coach of my boys and my daughters as well basketball and baseball and our company I started 20 years ago we work with schools K through 12 and we serve them by raising funds the past 20 years we've raised schools teams and groups over $600 million and we want to continue to serve more schools so if you're interested in hearing how we can come to your sports team uh your school or your group uh choose booster.com again go to choose booster.com Chris thanks for being a part of this a big supporter of Youth Athletics High School athletics and we're looking forward to a good partnership with you man' absolutely love what you guys are doing look forward to serving and helping schools raise funds back to Pure athlete I am Introduction Jeff Frank core along with Britt Lee and Brad Williams today guys I'm joined by I don't want to make him feel old but one of my heroes growing up and watching him pitch his whole career Greg Maddox thanks for coming on with us man absolutely thanks for having me how are how are things out on the west coast these days well they're good you know I just got back from the beach down in Dana Point and uh you know cold in the morning and perfect in the afternoon so uh perfect golf weather uh I see the rest of the country's getting slammed right now but uh you know out in California here in Vegas it's it's still pretty nice yeah I was going to say we we were three degrees feels like three degrees this morning when I took my kids to school it was rough yeah yeah brutal I think the studio is about five degrees it's cold down here too but before we get going um talking about kind of Youth Sports and your journey just kind of tell everybody what you're up to these days well uh 100% retired uh traveling playing a lot of golf uh watching a lot of Netflix uh you know trying to take care of my body a little bit so I could play golf every day and uh that's about it just uh 100% retired nice good for you living it well um you know kind of just you know as we get going here just kind of walk us through a little bit we'll get to your a little bit of your career but like what what did Little League look like for you I know you and your brother are real close Mike who who did win a World Series this year we'll give him the shout out yeah with the Rangers but you know what did y'all's uh Little League look like well you know we uh started on the Air Force Base so we played against all the uh Air Force brats and uh you Little League know dad was a coach brother was you know he's four or five years older than me so uh you know when I was five he was 10 that was a pretty big age difference but but uh uh I was always allowed to tag along and uh you know help shag when he was practicing and and you know when I got old enough to play uh you know my dad coached me as well so uh uh you know we were on the Air Force Base uh obviously the talent level was probably not as good as most Little League places but uh we had fun playing and you know we we went out and played for a couple hours and went by and got a big Gulp and uh got ready for school the next day what what was it like growing up on a Bas we didn't know any different you know uh we you know we were in uh Madrid Spain for one that's where my little league started and uh uh you know we we didn't know any different we went to class we came home we played Sports whatever whatever season was in season was the sport we played we played a lot of football and and uh basketball was as well how old were you when you moved to Vegas Greg uh I was uh nine I was nine and then I played here at at Nellis Air Force Base here in Vegas and uh you know made the All-Star team and uh we lost our first game and our chances for the Little League World Series were gone so Greg when you were in Vegas did you you said you said in Spain you played whatever sport was in season did Football you carry that on when you came to Vegas and through high school yeah absolutely absolutely I played uh I stopped playing football probably when I was in seventh or eighth grade uh there was a little bit of a size issue uh everybody was uh 30 40 pounds heavier than I was so uh uh I stuck to baseball and played a lot of basketball too growing up was baseball always the first love though uh actually it was basketball you know I probably Baseball spent more days in the summer playing basketball than I did baseball you know when I was a when I was a a teenager and uh you know my sophomore year of high school uh I didn't play baseball the previous year or two and uh our last game was Friday one of my teammates go hey baseball tryouts are next Monday you want to try out for the baseball team so being a sophomore in high school I said okay and you know Monday went and tried out for the for the uh baseball team and and realized that you know I kind of threw it further than everybody else and uh just kind of went from there so so let me get this right your eighth nth grade year there was no baseball for Greg Maddox uh we did play softball uh junior high school we had fast pitch softball and uh uh you know I played shortstop and I don't know if I hit first or eighth I can't remember that far back but uh I do remember uh playing uh eth and nth grade softball and also eth and ninth grade basketball as well and uh you know our high school was three years and uh that was when I started playing baseball again was my sophomore season talk a little bit we talk a lot on this podcast with the parents and of course mom and dad and stuff what was that Dynamic for you with them I mean were they you know just have fun doing what you were doing push you a little bit what what type of relationship was that like I was actually really good you know uh parents drove us to practice all the time growing up as kids and then once high school started uh my dad told me well that's all I know you got to listen to your coaches now and uh that was pretty cool you know I was about probably 15 or 16 at the time when he said that and uh I remember being 20 years old and and giving up a double to Dave Parker in Cincinnati and he goes ah I wish you would have threw him your curveball right there or something like that and I said hey Pops remember when I was 14 and you said said that's all I know listen to your coaches now well I'm going to still do that okay so uh and uh you know it was that kind of a relationship it was uh very supportive uh didn't really push us a lot I think we pushed ourselves you know I think the example my brother had set the years ahead of me is uh what helped me and pushed me probably more than my parents did and uh you know they were just fans they were more fans than parents and uh one of to do well and and you know didn't matter you know come Thanksgiving and Christmas we were going to spend the holidays together so Greg going back to Learning to Pitch you said you know you really didn't start getting serious about baseball till maybe 10th grade or so and you could throw the ball further and anybody else is that when you really started to to learn to pitch or or you know had you been throwing throwing stuff before then well you know I pitched in Little League when I was 12 and uh you know obviously I you know it was pretty easy for me being a 12-year-old throwing harder than everybody but uh when I was 15 I uh met a pitching coach named Ralph meter and uh I think I was 16 years old he told me you know you're going to throw hard enough to get drafted and uh you're going to have to learn movement location change of speeds and that's going to give you a chance to have success once you are drafted and uh bought into it you know not like today where you know if you threw 92 you want to throw 94 then you want to throw 98 it's all about the V uh it was all about movement back then it was uh how much can you get your ball to sink how much how late can you make it sink uh and it it's just kind of how we learned here in Vegas there was uh Mike Morgan was ahead of me my brother was ahead of me uh and then uh we all learned from the same guy and he actually passed away at the end of my junior year but he had laid down the foundation of uh movement location change of speeds then velocity and uh you know that's just something that uh that's how I learned to pitch when I was 15 16 years old and uh you know I was still doing it when I was in my 40s so uh a lot of credit to Mr meter and uh just great advice to receive at such a young age Greg we have to listen to Jeff brag about all his state championships uh constantly here in Atlanta but I I read somewhere that you guys want a state championship in baseball as well didn't you yeah we did my junior year we won State and uh senior year we didn't quite get there but we we uh were the last team to lose that year but uh yeah we got a state championship our uh junior year and it's pretty special felt just as good as the World Series really to be honest with you I mean it sounds weird but uh that state championship breaks right up there with the World Series in 95 as well now seriously that's that's as we talk to a lot of athletes we hear that that same story is it high school was was that was it a great was it a great experience for you playing baseball in high school yeah absolutely absolutely I think uh uh we were fortunate enough we got to play on the field at UNLV that year and we had a huge dog pile and uh you know I uh still keep in touch with a few of the guys on that team we have a fishing trip we go to Alaska there was a couple guys uh that made it and uh you know that was gez that was 83 when that happened so uh uh just the the lifelong friendships you make through baseball are pretty special I know you're very you know look Fighting Back not everybody who can move the ball doing whatever is going to win 300 something games and be in the Hall of Fame but H how do you fight back today because I I mean yeah I know you talk about it smoldy glav guys forever but where they preach velocity velocity velocity you know how what what do you tell parents that it's like you know it's okay if your kid doesn't throw 98 well I mean it it's it's all about execution it's about it's about making the pitch you're supposed to make and and obviously if you're throwing at 95 it's better than if you're doing it at 88 but at the same time 88 can still play I mean uh uh it's all about location change of speeds uh velocity would allow you allows you to get away with more mistakes so you know the slower you throw the better you have to pitch uh the more times you have to to to make your pitches uh vo just allows you to get away with mistakes more than the guy that doesn't throw as hard as you so Greg I'm curious you know you you're always known for having unbelievable Command command and today you know we see so many Major Leaguers that don't have command at all how did you develop you know the control that that you had repetition I mean uh understanding your mechanics you know I always felt like if I did everything mechanically correct it would be impossible for the ball not to go where I'm aiming it so uh you know that was kind of my Approach on that and kind of like a golf swing you know if you make a perfect golf swing and you hit it in the center of the club it's it's going to be a good shot and uh you know uh releasing a baseball was no different Greg you um supposed were not Fastball a very physically imposing uh player in high school what did the What did the what what did the uh what did the Cubs see in you that a lot of folks didn't see in you to make them draft you in the second round well I think obviously it was my fast ball you know I think everybody gets drafted because of their fast ball you know I I I had a I had a pretty good fastball coming out of high school believe it or not I mean I got the reputation of somebody that doesn't throw hard but you know when I was 18 years old and signing I mean I I threw pretty hard and and I don't think you 90 94 or so weren't you I was thr 92 with movement and sync I mean back then I think the Major League average was about 88 so I mean I was you know I was above the radar back then when I first came up uh and uh you know sizewise I was 150 lbs so you know I had the body of a a 40th round pick but I I I had a good fast ball I had a first round pick fast ball so I think uh I think that's what they saw and uh you know it's all about the fast ball to get drafted you know very very few guys get drafted because they have a good curveball you know the majority of the guys it's they've got a fast ball and then you kind of work off that you know let's talk a little bit to Arm Care Switching gears in this stain age with arm care right and and you know kids play like you said you played basketball so you had a break the kids that are playing baseball year round yeah you know how how do you take care of your arm and not you know I mean we we talked so many times you've seen Dr Andrews have a thing where they're doing Tommy John's on 13-year-old kids now like it's ridiculous one of the biggest things is when we were growing up uh we played baseball during baseball season so I mean we played 3 four months a year uh I was making 10 to 12 starts probably in high school and that's 10 to 12 starts a year so if I'm throwing say 10 starts 100 pitches a start you know you're at a thousand pitches and then you know if you look at the club ball I mean those guys are playing year round how how many pitches a year are they throwing they got to be throwing probably three or four times as many so I think you know now the injuries are going to come in are are you know you're more likely to get injured just because you're out there three four times longer than uh somebody else do you see injuries go up too because of lack of mechanics of kind of what you talked Injuries about too just the how hard can I throw it constantly every pitch I think uh balls to the wall I'm going to air it out and I'm going to throw it somewhere in the cage and and and hope it's not close enough to hit and they swing at it tight mentality I think uh we were more concerned with executing a pitch than than how hard we can throw it you know I felt like I could throw the ball 90 miles an hour and if I hump up it's going to be 92 can the hitter really tell I mean if if we're on the side of the road watching the cars drive by which ones are going 90 and which ones are going 92 you can't tell so I think as a hitter and and the way your eyes work it was never that big of a deal to to try to throw it an extra mile or two harder you know it was always more important to uh execute the pitch properly and put it in a good location with movement and and change speeds Craig sticking with arm care for a minute this is the time of year where everybody's kind of ramping High School up I mean at the pro level college level high school level what what how did you ramp up what what advice would you give to to high school kids well the first thing is you have to have a good shoulder exercise program you you you have to be able to take care of your shoulder and your elbow and and uh you know I was doing the jobes back in high school I was fortunate enough to to uh uh have a very good trainer when I was in high school and and he taught me how to take care of my arm properly do the correct exercises and uh you know jobes were a year round thing for me uh you know lift your three and five and S lb weights uh five to 12 minutes a day I think it's what it took me but it was every day and uh kept them in my uh kitchen had a kitchen counter I could lay on and do my shoulder exercises and uh uh you know go play Golf the rest of the day in the offseason but uh also you know for me it was like this time of year it was a lot of long toss it was long toss in January and then uh maybe get on a mound once or twice before spring training and then realize you had the month and a half of spring training to get get ready for April which is when the season starts so so Greg what what was your I mean and I may I'm sure it changed every when you started in the major leagues and when you finished what was your your game day routine like how would you get yourself ready uh for a team in terms of preparation warmup and things like that yeah so uh it was every day I mean it it it was if you pitch up let's say you pitch on Sunday so Monday you would come in watch yesterday's tape uh see what mistakes you made maybe see what you did well uh Tuesday was all about the next team you're facing so if I was going to face you know whoever the Mets then it was who's leading off for the Mets and you start with the lead off hitter and you start putting in in his tape and you watch him you watch the second hitter and you go all the way down the lineup and uh it was a lot of video obviously the second day was my side day that was uh maybe try to fix any mechanical flaws you had in your previous game uh maybe maybe your your your change up wasn't as sharp as you would have liked it to have been so you're going to you know focus a little bit on your change up maybe whatever whatever didn't work in your last start was your main focus on your side day and then you know the next two days where you know take care of your legs and arm and and and prepare your game plan plan for the team you're about to face you look at today's game who who Favorite pitchers are a couple of the pitchers that you enjoy watching and and why well you know obviously I loved watching the Texas pitchers last year you know evaldi I thought was pretty special you know I thought uh very good game plan very good stuff uh student of the game uh prepared properly uh it's a shame to Grom got hurt cuz you know that dude like just these no one right on steroids yeah I mean just probably the it's it's it's it's the most dominant picture I've ever seen in my life when when he's healthy and you know that was a real treat uh you know I just like uh obviously I like all the old guys you know Kershaw and and Wayne Wright and uh crap H to bring crap the guy from Houston uh berlander berlander thank you thank you I like uh you know I'm being old I like the RO for the old guys what what was it like for Working with college pitchers you you know I know you you coach some at UNLV you know working with some of these college guys you know how how how was Zap for you after all those years it was fun you know it's nice to be ignored by Millennials you know for a couple years I didn't mind that one bit but uh you know there were uh you know if I had 15 pitchers I had two or three that were 100% Allin you know you probably had seven or eight that were going to college to get an education they knew there was no uh Life After College as far as baseball goes and and uh so you know we made it fun you know for those guys we had a good time and yeah we joked around and and uh did we did what we can to try to get better Greg you're another thing you're kind of known for or not kind of Big Time known Outthinking hitters for was was your mental game and and outthinking hitters and your game planning and all that when when did that start how you know were you were you born thinking that way or did somebody kind of teach you an approach it all started uh you know I spoke earlier I don't know if I mentioned Ralph meter's name when I was 15 or 16 when I was learning movement and velocity uh on Sundays we would have uh workouts or scrimmages and Marty Barrett was in triaa at the time time with Boston and uh I was 15 or 16 years old and I'm facing Marty Barrett his AAA hitter and Mr meter back there behind the mound and he's like start him off with a curveball get your strike with a curveball and then he goes now throw your fast ball up and in so uh you know it started right there and you had to be able to execute pitches and to have success so I I would say that's when it started and that's you know that's when I realized you you have to you have to pitch and not just bring dead Heath who was your favorite guy to face in the big leagues good or Favorite hitter to face bad for reasons I mean I don't know if I had a favorite guy to face I mean as I'd say the pitcher because I was more likely to have success against them but I you know I mean Randy Johnson didn't scare me half as much as Luis Gonzalez did if you're facing Arizona all right let me rephrase that who's the best hitter you ever faced obviously the best was Barry Bonds no question you know but uh you know I've said it before too he he was also the easiest hitter to face because if it mattered you just walked him you didn't have to to him so I mean uh you know very rarely were you in a situation where where you had to pitch to him but uh you know Barry was the best I'd say you know the the hardest to uh get a strike on would be Tony Gwyn I think Tony Gwyn was probably the best pure hitter you know and then you had guys like Sheffield or or or pza you know these guys you can't make a mistake to these guys they're going to whistle it somewhere and uh you know you always had there was always one or two guys on on every team you you had to you had to pick your battles you know you kind of learn to beat lineups and not hitters so you have to you know sometimes you have to pick your own fights and realize you know you got to get 27 outs and you're not probably going to get you're not going to get that guy two or three times what was your favorite game you ever pitched in the big leagues Favorite game favorite game yeah that's a tough one I mean obviously probably my you know your first start's a big one you know I remember my first start in Cincinnati and uh you know the World Series game was huge uh had a game with Mike Morgan in St Louis I mentioned Mike Morgan earlier we both had the same Mentor growing up he was a few years ahead of me there was that Hometown connection and and you know we had a nice uh we had a nice one to nothing game that took it was like an hour and 45 minutes I mean it was just uh it was pretty cool game that day well Pitching philosophy well speaking about shortening games you know you you had a philosophy I've heard you talk about about not wasting pitches and you know we hear a lot of times on broadcast today guys are go O2 and oh going to waste a pitch get talk talk about your philosophy on that if you don't mind well I mean you yes freny what's the hardest count to hit in 02 probably 02 right can we agree on that so to me as a as a pitcher that's when I have to make you hit I gotta make you hit 02 because that's the hardest count to hit in and uh I mean if you just look at the law of averages I think O2 the leak hit like 160 and then one two it went up to 180 and 22 it went up to 220 and then 32 it went up to 320 so I mean 02 is the time to get him out I mean throw your best fast ball put it in a good spot and make him hit Greg what How far into a game um I mean how how far into a game into the first inning or whatever did you kind of know if you had your stuff or not like where you said this is going to be something where I'm on or this is going to be one a game where I'm have to grind it through no I never really looked at it that way you know I I I was I I tried really hard to only worry about the next pitch and uh I think I got pretty good at it the more I did it uh you know the the only pitch that matters is the next pitch the last pitch you threw or the last 10 pitches you threw might might help you with your pitch selection for that next pitch but uh I was all about the next pitch and uh you know last thing I wanted to do was worry about the outcome of of the game especially in the third or fourth inning so we've talked a a bunch obviously about pitching but you Fielding want 18 gold gloves which is unbelievable you know how did you develop you know as a Fielder you you obviously had to focus a lot on that and what would you say to Young pitchers today about learning the craft of Fielding their position well you have to be a complete player you know I mean uh I always consider myself a baseball player not a pitcher I mean I played defense and I hit and ran the bases and did all that and uh I figured if I did it better than the guy I was facing then I had a better chance to win it was that simple and uh you know I think my delivery allows allows me to be in a better Fielding position than most pitchers and uh I think that definitely helps but at the same time you know I you take ground balls just like a short stoper third baseman would and uh I took my share of ground balls and uh thought about the proper fundamentals of what you have to do to throw to each space correctly and uh worked on it and you know I just tried to be a complete player what would you tell you know 14 15 16 17 year old kid watching this you Pitching Advice know wanting to pitch at at the high school level and Beyond what what are a couple things that you would tell them to really focus on um you know as they prepare for the upcoming season and just in general I think it's important to enjoy practicing you know I think that that's that's one of the things that that will help is if you actually enjoy practicing and trying to get better uh you know uh dependent on the kid I think you have to trust your coaches I think if your coach is telling you what you need to work on I think that's where you should start you I mean you always you always want to keep your strengths and improve your weaknesses and uh but the bottom line is you know kids that age uh even the kids in the minor leagues in pro ball I think it's important to have fun doing what you're doing uh enjoy your teammates do whatever you can to win the day I mean try to get better whatever you have to do today to try to get a little bit better is is that's the goal and uh enjoy it while you're doing it speaking of teammates if Teammates you had to allow a hit to somebody or strike the other person out which one with glavin and SMY are you doing I mean I'd like to strike them both out I mean I mean it'd be fun to drill them too it might be fun to stick one in the ribs too but at the same time I think I would rather I'd probably rather strike out SMY and give up shut up and and and give up a hit to glab because I know glav can't run the bases he pretty slow and to shut SMY up yeah I mean you know I was just gonna say Greg are you know are you a fan today of of of Major League Baseball you know what what are State of the game your thoughts about the state of the game today you know what I do like it I do like it I I like most of the rule changes I like the uh I like the hitters clock everyone wants to call it the the pitcher clock but it's the hitters clock now now the hitters have to get in there and hit so uh uh I like that uh I do like baseball I uh watched a lot of the playoffs last year and enjoyed that I don't follow it on a day-to-day basis like I used to uh but at the same time I I I do like baseball I think the players play the game at speeds we wish we could have played it at you know they uh they they they they they they hit it a little further they run a little faster they definitely throw it harder and uh you know I enjoy watching them Retirement perform Greg you were part of of of one of the most iconic pitching rotations in history did you guys did you realize that while you were going through it or is it something you really didn't appreciate till till after you guys retired you know it it takes time to do that and and I think as as we were going through it I I I think we we realized that it was pretty special but at the same time you were just worried about your next start and uh I think when when it was all said and done you look back and and and you start to appreciate it a lot more than you did as you were actually going through it but I know we had a lot of fun we uh uh it was fun winning every night uh it was fun playing golf on the road with those guys and uh uh we had a good time while while we were doing it finishing up here with Greg Maddox my last question for you doggy is it Coaching for for coaches out there and I know you coach for a while your brother's pitching coach of the champ the world champion Rangers you know what's your advice to coaches at the high school level for for for you know pit for coaching pitchers that's a tough one I mean uh you you got to coach each player different I mean that's the one thing you have to understand what what this player does well and kind of work off that coach off that you know you can't you can't coach everybody the same way uh uh you can't give up on a player it's easy to get mad at somebody and give up on a player you know you can't quit on a player you just have to evaluate your players correctly and and and Coach them accordingly to the best of your abilities so I I have a kind of a final question as well and haven't really talked but you've got two kids we Advice For Parents haven't talked about whether they played Sports growing up but I I'd like to hear a little bit about that and you know what advice you would give to parents who are who are raising kids that are playing you Sports I coached my kid through high school and American Legion and all that and uh for me it was a pleasure I I I loved being around him I love being around the game I loved passing down the the the the lessons I learned at his age and uh you know as far as the parents go uh I never lied to him I I tried to tell them the truth about their kid if they ask uh sometimes they didn't like the answer but uh you know I didn't want to I just wanted to be honest with them as a coach you know as a parent watching my kid play I wanted him to have fun I wanted him to try to get better each day and have fun while he was doing it and and play for as long as you can for you know play as long as you can as hard as you can just uh you know and you know you look back now I think he's 26 years old and uh over the holidays he had about seven or eight of his high school teammates over and they all got together and had a good time so it was pretty cool you know he developed the friendships and and uh you know one guy's in the Army one guy's computer programmer one guy selling you know merchandise at that you know downtown and uh you know they all go their separate ways but they have that connection and they also want State and high school too by the way that's awesome yeah well I'll tell you what man we thanks for joining us I know I know you got to get to a tea time man I don't want you to get that game Rusty yeah the sun's coming up time to go sun's coming daylight oh man doggy we appreciate it man uh you're one of the best to ever ever do it and even a better guy so thanks for joining us thanks so much appreciate it thanks guys hey guys Jeff Rancor here thanks for checking out pure athlete And subscribe to our channel on Apple Spotify or wherever you go to listen to our [Music] podcast