Why Didn't the Blue Jays Sign Matt Chapman? (Ep. 299)

we'll see what happens with that I'm sure he he's definitely In Contention to be uh make or for one of those last roster spots yes sir There She Goes hello and welcome to episode 299 of section 138 I'm your host Mark colie as always joined by Bryson and Jacob we don't have Josh with us this week to talk about the first week of spring training but that's all right we got you two guys how are you doing good Mark like you said finally spring training games are underway and um I guess in a couple of days now it's kind of it's going to feel like one of those just routine type of regular spring trainings where the first weekend's always exciting and now it's kind of just going to get annoying uh within the next couple of weeks but I mean honestly throughout the first week we definitely have seen a lot of the everyday players playing um pretty much every home game a lot of the lineup's been a lot of regulars uh that have been featured so far early on in the spring and uh some of the veterans have recently started playing like George Springer as well so definitely getting a good uh good first look at these guys this season and of course a couple other things through o camp with the rotation and everything like that things appear to be looking good so far and uh yeah I mean that first week's over and now we kind of just have to stick it out for another couple weeks here before the regular season starts yeah it it so far it's been I think pretty fun to watch there's been a you know some story lines that aren't so great some that I think are just entertaining if like you're a sports fan like what we'll get into with the whole gar Cole thing but um overall it's been a fun I think first week of spring training but it's one of those things where like the die hards will watch it we'll obviously watch it and pick apart what's going on but eventually we're like yeah these games as much as they matter for like getting you ready for the season there's only so much that a game in February and March actually does matter so um but whatever like there's still are things that we can talk about and I mean thankfully I would say like the rotation does look pretty good um the rest of this team a little bit concerning but overall it is what it is it like it's spring training the people they're just getting their rips in at this point are you already hitting the panic button one week into live game after yeah that didn't sound very thing I've ever heard okay that was a little more dramatic than I expected it to be well I don't know um no I'm not actually concerned like I said like this is it's still a youngish team but it's more veteran than when it used to be uh like the guys were first coming up so like at this point spring training is like just get ready for the season you know you've made the team so nobody like actually cares about the results but um yeah that that's basically what I meant I think that's what spring training is every year but okay um you mentioned gar Cole let's start with the gar Cole thing because to me this is above all the stuff that's happening on the field the most interesting thing to come out of the last week week and a half um and that is Friday night it's a nighttime game against the Yankees at Stein burner field um Daniel vog hits a home run it's a beautiful home run his swing is incredible and obviously all of us feel great because it comes against gri Cole division rival one of the greatest pitchers in baseball it was a lot of fun uh but then the next day or I guess that night we hear from one of the Yankees reporters Brian ho he says Garrick Cole was no fan of Daniel vog slow Trot on the first in the first inning then he said quote yeah what's the day are we still in February March 1st yeah he enjoyed that Homer asked if he would remember vabx Trot during the season Cole replied I don't forget a lot of things um let's Jump Right In where you guys stand on this what are your thoughts okay here's the thing I agree with the Yankees perspective I just think that like of course it's Garett Cole what do you agree with what do you agree with you got to be more specific Vach was too slow going around the bases I agree with the whole show boating in the first week of spring training being kind of stupid like these games do not really matter and this is somebody like with all due respect is on a contract to like maybe get a job this season so like I understand where he's like okay what are you doing here buddy like it's it's it's February uh however of course it's Garett Cole crying like a little baby because of this like it's just it's I don't know I just find it hilarious like I agree with getting mad but it's like of course it's gar Cole that wants to complain he's the one that's you know always beefing with Manoa and like what like you can have your opinion whatever I don't really care like Garrick Cole's the one that wants to talk about like oh it's only February but like his Yankees fell off last season and really they haven't done anything of significance in the past decade so like whatever but uh anyways I don't want to start beef over spin training which I might have already started but uh it started well yeah okay but um it's just it's hilarious to watch and it's one of those things where like I'll watch the clip and like I I'll give Daniel vogle Back Credit like it was a good home run it's off of a good pitcher but it's just it's just so stupid in my opinion also kind of funny that this argument just started over the first inning of like the first week of spring training so we'll have to see where this uh where this goes I mean the uh the MLB like the the online like the fan media like this everyone seems to pull out blue jay quotes and try to pick them apart as the the season goes on so we'll see how this uh I think transpires like grick Cole wants to talk about significant significant games we'll have to see uh what he actually does in those games when they are significant okay do you do you actually think that VAB Bach showboated though I can see where they're coming from but I also don't really think that he did like I'd be annoyed personally if I saw like whoever do it off of you know any blue jay pitcher but like I'd also realize like a who really cares it's spring training okay um first of all to answer your question or I mean what you were talking about at the end there Jacob if anything's going to happen when the games count I can almost guarantee if vgo back makes a team and everything like that I don't expect anything GLE I don't think he's going to do anything about it in terms of throwing at him or any sort of retaliation um just yeah it's I think it's a typical uh overreaction from gar Cole despite obviously how good he is on the on the mound but I think the one thing we all need to recognize here is that and I mean this with all due respect is Daniel vobach is 270 pounds so I don't know how fast he wants him to go around the bases and on top of that if you look on previous home runs that he's hit in the past and everything like that which I did I went back and looked at a lot of stuff not honestly nothing seems different in terms of the Trot the pace and even I guess like his follow-through of dropping the bat like maybe he you know he dropped the bat a little bit more dramatic or he but usually he does that though almost every home run he hits so what I'm trying to say is as much as it may look from somebody who hasn't watched him a lot may look like it's dramatic it just seems like a routine type of thing uh from Daniel vulgo back of what he's done throughout his career so those are the two things I pointed out again I don't know how fast he wants him to go but a lot of this seems similar to what he usually does in the past so that's kind of the part where I scratched my head at and no I don't think he was show buing whatsoever I think he hit a home run regardless if the games count or not you you mentioned to Jacob he's in a much different situation than a guy like G Cole he's fighting for a position on this team and um if gck Cole doesn't or has a problem with it it just comes back to the same thing no matter if it's February March or if it's in September don't give up the home run if you have a problem with the way he goes around the bases I think it's free game when you go around the bases like that and I'm not saying you know to completely showbo and take your time if there's no context behind anything but I think vgab back earn the right to do what he usually does which is that usual home run shot he does and it doesn't make any difference to me if it's in February or September because he never did anything over dramatic uh in my opinion from what I saw and uh based off what he's done in the pass so I also bring it back to that point is if he has a if he really has a problem with it then make sure simply make sure it doesn't happen um no matter where where the game is when the game is what the significance is of the game it's pretty it's pretty plain and simple so yeah uh it didn't take long for this I guess I don't know if you want to I guess you can call it a rivalry between the Jays and Yankees there's always stuff throughout the years that come up uh throughout the midseason and everything like that you mentioned the Alec monoa stuff uh Jacob and there's been lots of stuff little things too though over the last couple years where it just feels like both teams get ticked off at little things that they do to each other so it definitely was a bit FastTrack this season and I'm sure there's going to be stuff that come up throughout the year but I in terms of this situation in particular I I really don't expect any sort of uh for their action to be taken from gar Cole or anything like that you know when these guys do when these uh teams do see each other in the regular season yeah I really hope not that would be absurdly dumb in my mind like I think it's absurdly dumb in the first place that g Cole thinks Daniel vobach was rubbing this home Ron in his face for a couple reasons because hey everyone knows it's the first week of spring training like just as much as gck Cole is upset that vobach is apparently taking too long with his home run Trot vobach knows this is the first week of spring training and he's fighting for a job like these are not people who have their heads stuck in the sand and don't know what baseball is like they both know it's the first week of spring training they both know it doesn't matter so yeah I think it's ridiculous first off the premise that vak is even showboating or purposely going slow or whatever like this is just who he is like Daniel vobach you think he's running slow around the bases yeah he is he's Daniel vobach that's what he does it's uh it seems ridiculous for gar Cole to read anything into this but yeah second off based off of that I think it'd be really absur L absurdly dumb if car Cole did anything in the regular season like and imagine how terrible look that would be like this to me is very dumb him speaking out about the unwritten rules about B of baseball in the middle of spring training but it'd be even more dumb if he took action on that and threw a pitch at Daniel vulak or whoever on the Blue Jays because of it um I wouldn't be surprised I guess we've seen s similarly dumb things or even more dumb things in the past but yeah I think uh it's it's spring training none of this matters there's no way Daniel vok was actually doing anything and honestly if he was like whatever this is baseball today this is how the game works suck it up GLE get used to it uh do you have to like it no like no Jay's fan liked when Troy tulowitzky took a little bit longer on that home run or double or whatever he hit a couple years ago in spring training after he told the Blue Jays he would never move off shortstop and then he signs with the Yankees and instantly moves off shortstop like no one liked that but then again we weren't talking about throwing pitches at him in the regular season so I don't know I think it's uh it's absolutely ridiculous to be even having this conversation it is frankly absurd yeah it's it's one of those things where I feel like we'll look back on it like later in the season and just think like this is just so stupid and um I really hope nothing boils over like I mean we've seen it uh this is a completely different scenario but we've seen it you remember those the Rangers and blue jays that whole thing um the beef that carried over from 2015 into 16 obviously very different I'm not trying to even suggest that those are similar at all but who knows I mean we've seen stupid things get carried over in the past but I really hope that this doesn't because it just it would look like like I'm saying this like the Yankees would look bad like I would be embarrassed if if this was the opposite side where you see like monoa throwing at I don't know judge or or whoever because they took too long on a home run in spring training so let's just hope it doesn't and like at the end of the day like throwing at people just these stupid things like you can just like players can get hurt and there's really no need for any of it yeah that's what it comes down to it just comes down to something that overall is dumb but I mean if you actually look at the Home Run itself though like credit to vle back though like he did crush it it was 370t I think it's what it came in at and it just he destroyed it so you know it was a really maybe that also came out with it maybe he just it was just a instant thing that g Cole did to try and I don't know maybe just because of how much he crushed that baseball um from vogle back maybe it was his kind of way to deal with it at the beginning in in terms of how he reacted I'm not sure but it does come down to something um that is just overall dumb and hopefully that's the end of that and we never really have to talk about that again so I mean and overall for vogle back too he's had he he actually has had a decent start to the spring uh overall not just that game as well so we'll see what happens with that I'm sure he he's definitely In Contention to be uh make or for one of those last roster spots and he's obviously got to play um well throughout the rest of the spring and he's going to get plenty of opportunities so definitely a good start uh for him as well though overall uh throughout the spring and you know what like maybe this is just G Cole playing mind games with the Blue Jays or something I don't know um but yeah on the face of it absurdly dumb and I mean good for Daniel vok for that home run and as you say the start that he's had to spring training so far it seems like he is well on his way to earning one of those extra roster spots that the Blue Jays have um okay let's talk a little bit about Alec Mano we saw him on the mound for the first time this past week in a game against the Detroit Tigers the Blue Jays lost 6'4 which ultimately of course does not matter and even the results that monoa had on the mound to a large extent don't matter this is spring training pitchers are working on things it is not their final form but with that in mind we're going to look at his line it was 1.2 Innings three hits four in runs one walk zero strike HS and he hit a couple batters as well um I don't know what do you make of that like I I guess it's impossible to look at this start in isolation we also have to look at the news that came down couple days after it where we heard that Alec Noah felt some shoulder soreness during a bullpen session and he cut it short um according to ke maton he didn't really bounce back the way he wanted to after that start against the Tigers um an MRI showed no structural damage which is good but the Blue Jays are taking it day-to-day right now so it doesn't seem certainly to be major at all um seems kind of be similar situation that rookie Tedman was in dayto day something that you just got to kind of take your foot off the pedal a little bit and nurse for a couple days in the middle of spring training um but I don't know what are your takeaways from his start are you concerned by this injury news like where do you stand on how Alec manoa's Camp has gone for the first week or so I'll be honest like I'm I'm a little bit more concerned than than you guys might be interes well because like here's the thing we obviously know what happened last season um whether the shutdown because of an injury at the end of the season was actually true or whatever uh he needs to be better this season like he's it's pretty obvious that he's like he's not given a job he has to earn that job uh and the fact that he threw what 17 strikes out of his 38 pitches um like that's not good like he had he didn't have the command he's hitting batters um like I get it it's early it's spring training um you know like I said at the beginning guys are just working on their mechanics at this point but Alec monoa like he's had all offseason to work on his mechanics after how bad last season was and like I hope it is just a little injury maybe a tiny tiny setback and then he's back to form but this can't be something that lingers or else like I hate to say it who knows if he even starts the season with the Blue Jays if this continues because like he can talk like he clearly like he knows how to say the right thing like all the pressure the the tires the they don't give a World Series rings in Triple A like he has the personality to be a major Leaguer he just hasn't performed that way for pretty much much a year now and I'm hoping it is just a little setback you know like I said it's early in spring training so you just get you know worked back up uh get the stamina back but this whatever it is it's going to need to be figured out soon because like the Blue Jays are not in a position where they can continuously put him out there if he's going to pitch this terribly um in the regular season because like we talk about this team like maybe not World Series aspirations right now but they are expecting to be competitive and if you were you have a weak link on your team you can't have that that weak link playing so like I hate to say this because like Alec Mano is one of my favorite players on the team but he like this is a thing where I'm just I'm getting a little concerned like has the offseason work really worked out and we'll have to see uh what transpires in the next like I guess week or two yeah uh I I'm concerned too but I'm not like overly concerned because I will give him the benefit of the doubt as much as the signs were terrible I know everyone will point to that it is again it is the first start of the spring and he is going to get multiple opportunities everything goes well but yeah I mean he definitely it definitely started in probably one of the worst possible ways he could I mean it was a perfect Tuesday afternoon in Lakeland the game wasn't on TV so not a lot of people were exactly watching him or nobody was on TV other than the people that were there so I felt like it was a good way for him to start the spring and just yeah nothing real nothing really good came out of it despite I would say maybe the velocity cuz the velocity was up and he was hitting 95 a lot with his fast ball and that's usually something where he doesn't go that he usually doesn't throw uh 95 based off uh years prior so that was probably the only good thing that came out of it if you want to nitpick anything of course that came out good about it from that but Jacob you went over it too the man wasn't there and it just seemed to be a lot of the same in terms of situations where um he's throwing a lot of balls and then he's throwing at people he threw at three people and I think one of the first batters or that first inning alone he loaded the bases with nobody out so like it was just right out of the gates again um terrible in terms of that in terms of allowing base runners and everything like that and the other thing too is that we saw the signs of this as well last spring with monoa but we were doing the whole thing of kind of downplaying it because it was spring training rightfully so but that's the part where I'm also concerned about because now that could be back-to-back Seasons where this sort of stuff is happening in the spring again and it just from it was a downward spiral so we're yet to see how he's going to react to it um at the moment Mark you talked about it with the shoulder sorness that he experienced so at the moment he's going to be I guess shut down until everything um everything kind of just goes away on its own and maybe it's expected because it is it was his first pitched game um in quite a long time I know you were talking about it to Jacob a little bit the whole thing last year where uh he was sent down a triple A but a month later he reported and then he didn't really get into much games down there he was just kind of there so maybe that was a little bit expected and we'll see what happens I'm sure he's going to be okay it's early on in the spring and the other thing too to note is if he's not ready for opening day um a lot of people were kind of turning to uh turning their heads to yariel Rodriguez who they expected if it will if it's not going to be monoa because it feels like it's his job to lose perhaps it'd be Rodriguez and he's also going through some um some little injury problems as well so he's yet to pitch I think it's back spasms he's going through right now so that kind of leaves that whole that fifth spot question mark if this shoulder soreness turns out to be a little bit more than what it is with Manoa but we don't want to I guess overstep that at the moment and I guess we'll kind of leave it there and then of course if you want to talk about with what monoa said afterward in terms of his first start he felt good in terms of and he I'm sure this was also him downplaying it a little bit where in terms of his overall performance but he said he was focused on locating a slider and everything like that and he felt good about that so you know it he was kind of given the impression that that was his only I guess Focus from that start on Tuesday again do I believe him fully probably not um but of course I think that's expected for him to to kind of point away or Point towards the POS this the few positives that came out of that start which would be that I guess because that was his intentions and then of course his uh velocity which was up a little bit uh compared to what we've seen throughout his career so besides those two things and pretty much that one thing in particular actually not a lot of good stuff to come out of there from him and I am anxious to see how he bounces back whenever his next star will be and I think there's a lot of people that are definitely overly concerned right now there's a lot of people that are a little bit concerned and I think that's where kind of most people are at because we want to give him the benefit of the doubt we want to see him pitch you know more than just the one Spring Training Game and see if he can kind of bounce back and kind of go upwards from here so that'd be perfect if he can slowly get better towards opening day and um we you know it just it's really needed obviously for him to bounce back and um get back to his for or at least you know anything better than what was happening last year and I just I remember the quote and Jacob you had to remind me about the the the World Series rings or the Rings whatever in Triple A and it just it's not it for Me overall just bad vibes right from the start on this entire situation so uh we'll see what happens see maybe the key is just like stop saying things to make you sound like you know what you're talking about to the media because like that that quote wasn't even like it I don't know we talked about it on this that's like look for it I don't know I okay there's like two sides to this to me there's the rational part of me which wants to think like no this is a the first spring training start this is still you know last week of February first week in March like that's the rational side of me rationalizing the fact that there's still a lot of time to we go none of this means anything no spring performance means anything until you get to the final week and people are talking about starters earning jobs or you know kind of the 24th 25th 26th guy on the bench earning a job like none of it matters outside of that so that's the rational part of me but as you explained Bryson the irrational part is thinking that you know monoa is coming off a terrible season he apparently dealt with injuries down the stretch he was not himself or maybe he was himself if that's himself but the point being his performance wasn't there last season he had a terrible season we're looking to spring training to see a bounce back and we're not seeing it so that's kind of the split I I don't think I'm worried yet I think if this extends maybe another week or two then we start having scary conversations but at the same time like I was talking about this before spring trading the Blue Jays don't have starting pitching depth and I've always been conc concerned about that and this is exactly why like there was always a situation where monoa doesn't perform or someone like Chris P gets injured or whatever it may be like there was always a situation where something goes wrong and you need to have a backup plan and this is why I think the Blue Jays were partly not built the way they should have been in the off season because they didn't have a backup plan for something like this happening they don't have a next man up and I know Bowden Francis has been getting a lot of hype in spring training so far and rightfully so I mean he had a great season last year out of the bullpen maybe he's the next guy up and maybe he can prove over the next couple weeks in the spring training that he's available available to be stretched out an effective stretched out um I don't know it just seems like the Blue Jays don't have a clear backup plan and that's what makes me the most nervous about this because something like this was always going to happen um it's just they need a backup plan because it's unevitable that's kind of where I stand on this no I like I agree with you and like that's the issue with how bad this off season was like even we'll get to it like they didn't sign Chapman they didn't really sign anybody so you're kind of like you're if everything goes right if you can Bank on who you have uh that took you to where you were last year minus the playoffs we know what happened there but like if you like if you have a good rotation you have good defense you have even better offense this is a good team but if monoa goes down if you know players are not performing the way they're supposed to be like you just you don't have that depth and maybe they do have the depth we just haven't seen it yet obviously Rodriguez uh needs some needs to get stretched out not sure what's going to happen with tan uh you mentioned Bowden Francis so like things could work out but as of right now we don't know if they will and I think that's just what's so concerning is this is a team that you know like I said earlier I don't know if it's World Series aspirations but deep playoff runs is the absolute bare minimum for what what is expected of this core so things are going to need to be figured out or else this might be a very very disappointing season and it'll you know I don't want to call it specifically the offseason's fault but I I don't know what else to blame it on like you you know what your needs are and you don't go tackle them I'll say this as much as we are concerned a little bit concern it sounds like all of us a little bit at least I will say the one thing is yes in terms of the rational thing like you're were talking about Mark it is we will give him the benefit of the doubt and give him the rest of the spring because that's what spring training is and that's what spring training is for so regardless of people believe it or not that's just kind of the reality of it is you have to give him as much time as you can throughout this entire month because he's going to be pitching a lot and I know he was supposed to pitch today in Fort Myers on Sunday against the Red Sox so again his next start is kind of up in the air to be determin so hopefully it's only a couple of days and hopefully by I guess maybe around at least or at the earliest the middle of next week he can get back out there and I'm sure he's probably anxious to get back out there too because again it wasn't exactly the greatest start um but if he can build off of what he wanted to with his slider like he said and if his velocity was up perhaps that's something for him to look forward to and we'll see what happens yeah like that's another part of this it's so hard to judge his performance when we didn't see any of it I mean like we can talk about like the the 17 balls or what was the number Jacob 17 strikes 3 well 38 pitches 17 uh balls sorry 17 which like either way that ratio is not great that's not something you want to have like the two three hit batters you you don't want to have that either like th those on the face of it these are not good stats and of course the injury is not good but we do again have to give it the benefit of the day because we didn't see any of this like apparently his velocity looked good um I guess his location was what was missing uh but at least his velocity had a tick up which I guess we should kind of expect given all the work he put in in the off season and his conditioning and how he entered spring training looking it's kind of that best shape of your life thing so we should have expected that I guess um I don't know it's uh I I'm not ready to to put a verdict either way on Al Manoa and I I think we can pump the horses on that and and wait a week or two and then see what happens um okay let's talk about the other thing you mentioned Jacob um and that's the failure of the offseason because uh Matt Chapman the uh long unemployed match Chapman the guy who rejected a qualifying offer of one year 20 million from the Blue Jays rejected a an extension I guess when he was with the Oakland Athletics and then apparently rejected a six-year $120 million deal with the Toronto Blue Jays he has now signed with the San Francisco Giants for three years 54 million dollars and uh basically this has led everyone in Blue Jay's Camp to go where is Ross Atkins why is Ross Atkins not signing this deal or not offering three or 60 million to someone like Matt Chapman when he was worth apparently six years 120 million to this team not so long ago according to Scott Mitchell of TSN they offered him that contract over the past year um do you get guys have any answers where Ross Atkins is why the Blue Jays didn't pull the trigger on something like this when he when he's coming so cheap um to the San Francisco Giants I think this is maybe the first time ever the three of us don't have an answer that is like good because like all I can think of is Ross Atkins like oh you know we're comfortable with the core blah blah blah like we're comfortable with oh we're very excited yeah like like kid don't get me wrong like there there is things to be excited about but like when you're in win now mode it's not hm let's see if these prospects are good no it's like you have like yeah the prospects can play but I'd bring back match Atman and like it one thing I will say is Scott Boris is kind of an idiot like the fact that the fact that he was offered over100 million do and he signs for just barely over half of that same thing with Cody Bellinger like this dude whatever fair enough he wants to get his guys his money or their money but um very concerning like I I'm not saying that I'll make it to the show but like he would not be my agent um but uh as if that matters but anyways like I don't know for that I don't know what's up with Ross Atkins like I I really don't know and so I'll just leave it at that like you should have gone out and got this guy I I will uh just admit that I was wrong last episode when I was saying I trust Scot Boris he's doing what he's doing he wouldn't be doing this if he was wasn't getting more money because of it I was wrong um he did not get more money because of it I have yeah I I have a couple main takeaways here first of all Matt Chapman and Scott bores yes are both dumb for how this whole thing played out the second thing I'll say is Scott Boris is clearly washed up in 2024 in terms of the deals he's been getting with his clients um like it's it's an identical type of structure compared to what Cody Bellinger got and it's basically opt out after opt out after opt out so any sort of good season that these guys are going to have is obviously going to be opted out and it's obviously a player friendly deal but yeah like when you look at these numbers and then now when you want to put it back towards the Blue Jays because of that whole offer they gave them in November there's there's a lot of questions first of all we already know that Matt Chapman probably should have taken that deal and if it if there was a do over he probably would have uh based based off how how the entire process went for him but now if you want to focus again on the Blue Jays here this makes absolutely no sense about how especially in November as much as we may have all gotten pump faked about the Otani thing on top of wanting to pay 700 million or whatever it was to showy Otani on top of that they were willing to go over hundred million to bring back Matt Chapman and then all of a sudden the otoni thing goes away and after that there was absolutely nothing in terms of spending it was just Isaiah ker FFA and it was just Justin Turner pretty much that happened afterward and then some minor things and of course yel Rodriguez happened after that too so why there was no sort of why the Jays didn't re-engage with Matt Chapman over $54 million it makes zero sense to me at all I don't know I I do wonder what the whole process was on that if the Jays actually did try because I don't think we know in terms of that the only thing that we do know is that offer that came in November and for my my entire stance on the Chapman situation for me was that and maybe you guys disagree with this but this is how I saw it is that at the beginning of the off season I was fine with perhaps them going in a different direction and you know we kept hearing reports about how this team was willing to or this team was you know really anxious to make a big move and you know it feels like it's every off season we hear that and there was tons of people talking about it the Jays are active they're picking up the phone you know they're really exploring opportunities and Alternatives as Ross Atkins would like to say and then all of a sudden pretty much nothing substantial comes out of it with all due respect to a guy like Justin Turner and Isaiah Conor FFA because again Justin Turner I think is a good addition to the lineup but that's pretty much all that was done and then that brings me back to the point where if that was all they were doing this team is just as good as last year or maybe a little bit better if you bring back Matt Chapman uh besides sides are you know otherwise letting him walk it it just the entire process for me makes zero sense on where on why the fin financially they wouldn't pivot towards you know settling for $54 million and why there was just it just didn't feel like there was any sort of urgency to try and you know add another bat like we were talking about all offseason and you know on paper this team is definitely not as good as they were last year I don't think and and if they are it's very similar to last year it's not a step forward by any means in terms of a large one so this entire thing is very confusing and strange and I would like to know if the Jays did try and bring him back for that 50 more $54 million because if they did then they did and clearly Chapman just preferred to go back to the West Coast and if not it just makes this thing even more dumb um from the beginning of the offseason till now yeah it really makes me question like I don't know it seems like the money just isn't there at all like for me it seems seems like there's no other reason why the Blue Jays wouldn't re-engage like unless we're just totally out of Loop and they did and they offered some sort of comparable contract and he wanted to go to San Francisco or maybe they would off offer the same contract without the opt outs or I don't know like we don't know what's going on behind the scenes but from the outside looking in it seems really strange and the only reason I can think of is because the money wasn't there from Rogers which like the money was there with 700 million dollars with showy Otani and um whatever how much did they offer Turner one year 15 uh or 12 somewhere around there or two years 15 for ik like the money was there and like we're not talking that much more now for someone like like one year of Justin Turner around 15 million three years of mattch chman around 54 million that's not too far off aav plus if he has a good first season he's opting out after one year 20 like I I don't know it just see it seems really strange I can't wrap my head around why the Blue Jays wouldn't be involved in the conversation other than just the money absolutely wasn't there and Ross sadkins was completely telling the truth when he said uh at this point it's addition by subtraction so I guess credit to Ross for telling the truth and actually being honest because that seems to be really the case it seems like I mean other than some absolute disaster class of free agent moves I just can't that's the only reason I can come up with it's just that they didn't have the money to work with so I I don't know and I do think like this is not an ideal contract for team like as much as of a bargain as it is like you think about it he has an opt out after every season so if he performs well the first year when he's getting $20 million he's going to opt out and you only get one season of him if he performs poorly then you're stuck with uh paying him $20 million That season plus it's like 18 and 16 after that or somewhere around there so like it it's not a perfect contract for a team but it's still a bargain for one of the best defensive players in baseball who has some offensive upside like I don't know I really can't wrap my head around why the Blue Jays wouldn't be involved in this if they actually weren't I think I am more confused than ever I guess like and I don't think this is a very good point but I'm just going to bring it up because I thought about it I guess maybe after the um the November December discussions they realized okay this guy clearly doesn't want to come back and then just decided even if he wanted to come back at a reduced rate or had to settle for a reduced uh payday they just weren't in that conversation but still like that's like why not like yeah fine you can say we didn't want to be here um we're not going to offer you a contract even though know you're you're it's more of a short-term deal rather than long-term deal but I still don't get it like like I said you or like we've all kind of mentioned and you gone all like last season into this season this is a win now mode I don't know how you win now if you have you know I guess like half your infield still needing to prove itself yeah or ikf is your starting Third Base maybe that's maybe like Ross Ain just totally sold an ikf and he wants him starting with all due respect I don't want that to like I don't want to picture a world with that um yeah that's all I'm gonna say on that I don't like I don't want to hate on the guy but like no it just yeah it doesn't it none of it makes I I don't get it no so maybe again maybe there's more to it which would make us understand this a little bit more but yeah like I think even last year I feel like there was another situation it might have have happened in season where around the allar break where the Jays actually tried extending Chapman as well mid-season I think I remember seeing something about that I don't know for sure and yeah that's twice now obviously he rejected both offers so yeah I mean maybe it just had something to do with him wanting to go back to California I don't know that would make more sense in terms of if the Jays were willing to you know I guess match the Giants offer or maybe go a little bit more but regardless it's pretty much the drop off in terms of that extension offer and then to where this came from if that's the other thing like it just other than those two factors it none of it makes sense in terms of why the money was there in November and why the money all of a sudden disappeared afterwards so yeah I mean this infield is definitely going to look a little bit different in terms of what's been you know people moving around at third base and and at second base so um it's going to be yeah and already right now as well in Camp I know not everyone's going to make the team but there's a log Jam already uh in terms of that infield and we were talking about a guy like vogle back earlier he's part of that Log Jam in terms of who's going to make the team in those final bench spots and then there's Conor FFA there's Eduardo Escobar as well who's also fighting for a spot so we'll see and then there's espanol there's beio who we haven't even seen yet in spring training uh and there's Davis Schneider as well so it's a definitely a log Jam in terms of ways to replace Chapman but still some questions that got to be answered even after the fact that Chapman wasn't brought back in terms of what it is going to look like uh this season yeah it's uh perplexed for sure um okay with that we will wrap up this episode and uh get to the Blue Jays spring training game today against the Red Sox which we are looking forward to the first of the Season against Boston um as always you can support our podcast by finding us on social media it's @ section 138p pod Twitter Instagram um you can also find us on YouTube subscribe there pass us along to a friend anything helps uh we will catch you after another week of spring trading action see you [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] then