B.rad Podcast - Mike Scannell: The Mysterious Coaching Hero Of 2x Olympic Medalist Grant Fisher

sometimes there's a foot pursuit so people were talking about one of the great you know National level Collegiate distance Runners and I think you surprise some criminals is that what I remember from the story you promised we would not talk about Mike scannel after so many years I caught up with you and I'm so freaking excited because right now you're on top of the world and you're going to you're going to share this energy and excitement we were mentioning off camera that um you know this is this is your your calling in life and we're going to talk about the incredible success at the Paris Olympic Games by your athlete Grant fiser and how this whole journey happened but I said let's just jump right into it because we saw this dude claim two bronze medals in the distance events making history for the United States welcome to the show man well Brad it has been a long time and uh we've been friends forever it's wonderful to see you I really appreciate coming on your show and sharing this and you know I don't know if I'm on the top of the world but I'm I might be second because Grant is uh super super happy and it was a it was really a long-term project and you know he never wavered in his goals he set them out there and shared them with me and he actually shared them with others and that's not an easy thing to do stick you know put yourself you know out there and put a Target on your back and say hey this is what I'm going to do and this is what I want to do and he did it so I'm I'm a passenger in the car and I'm a really really happy passenger well that's a great attitude and I think it speaks to your um you know well-balanced holistic approach to coaching because sometimes I object when um the coaches are kind of uh taking taking the Limelight and using uh using a lot of we statements like we won the Medal and all that and it it can it can turn into into um Sometimes some dysfunctional Dynamics you see that in other sports where the athletes feel too much pressure and they crack and and sometimes I feel like well what's going on with their support system where the athlete had so much pressure to win the gold or die um they're lacking perspective all around them too it seems like yeah with gr is such an individual and unique guy that um you know we started this project and and I didn't say this is what I'll do for you I said what can I do for you grant what do you want from me you know what do you want and then when we all laid it out I said I'll clear my plate I don't care you've asked for this you've asked for that you think this is the right way to go and I'll clear my plate for this project and that was you know almost a year ago and um it TR honestly it truly is Grant and I truly am a passenger and it has always been I will help but you will drive and I will do whatever it takes and you will you know you're the race car driver I'm just the mechanic and I'm good with that you I think you need a really good mechanic there's no doubt about it I think absolutely you need a good mechanic but also you need a race car driver and grants a race car driver it's interesting that you're we're going here with the conversation because um I was also going to ask you what we commonly see these days in the elite scene are these high-profile teams where there's a bunch of resources behind it with with a big sponsor we're familiar with the Nike teams and the on team and um that that team atmosphere I think has a lot of benefits but it also seems like there's the potential for um getting into the uh the team Dynamic that is so destructive for Collegiate athletes where the system chews them up and spits them out so um you maybe could talk about the compare and contrast from What's a what's an elite team experience like with all the bells and whistles and the facilities um but you know sort of a different approach than than you and Grant have taken with this uh kind of one-on-one approach well I love the team approach I think uh you I like I like the coaches that day rheim of the world you know the Jerry's of the world the the uh the guys that are involved in those big large teams they have good coaches the Pete Julians of the world they're good coaches and they're good teams and they work very well so I think there's a huge benefit to that and if not anything else just sharing the Olympics experience so Grant goes to BTC and there's other guys in the team already that have medals and so just the on an easy run talking about what it's like how is it at the Olympics what's you know what is the warm-up like what's the call room situation like what are you allowed to do here how long are you sequestered you know all of those things that give him a visual or what it's going to be like when he is there those are very very helpful things so I like that approach that approach is not for everybody I mean Cole Hawker went back to his coach last year as well and Cole Hawker arguably had a great year right I mean you can't argue with a gold medal so um I think at different times in different athletes careers and progression uh they just have to pick the right solution at the time and you know you you have to go to the N NCAA system you have to and it it is very good system there's a lot of competitive guys that all want to be very good and to be around that environment is healthy and like you said sometimes times it's not but there is definitely a place for all of that so I support the uh the large team and the large group I think it's you know in our day Brad we didn't have that option we were all on our own and I think we made our own small groups but you know for those companies to Get Behind These groups I think is great but like you said this year Grant made that change and the focus was 100% Grant Fisher so in this year with what went on in hindsight I can say that was a good change for him I can't argue yeah that's funny I mean uh there there's so much uh you know uh armchair uh aining especially it seems like in track and field for some reason where uh everyone's you know has a better recommendation than the athletes who are excelling so um you cross the finish line you can you can shut down any any potential naysayers of who's this Mike scam guy why is he taking why is he taking the reigns with uh you know the greatest American distance Runner uh but I think what's also cool is like um these things all are seen should be seen as stepping stones and you have to continue to try and and grow and uh you know better yourself and so your your positive attitude is is shining through like the Collegiate Experience is awesome and then the Bowerman Track Club where where Grant trained as a pro was awesome awesome and now he's having great success with the next stepping stone and also in that was choosing a different place to live that was personally appealing for personal reasons I suppose and you you can talk about that when I when I stop rambling but um I think that's the sign of a champion where you know you can't be getting into a a rut just because you got to look for you know more more opportunity in the future and and things change in your own life too I suppose yeah and you have consider um I don't want to use an athlete as a product but you've got to consider that at this phase of that development of that career let's say at 18 years old Grant needed this at 22 years old he needed that at 27 years old maybe he needed this and so you know maybe this was the change that he needed to to excel it worked I don't know if this is the best I've I've always held the belief that if I can benefit you Brad as a coach then let's work together and Brad if you decide that it's best for Brad to go to Johnny as a coach then Brad I'm gonna support that decision go to Johnny and see if it works out maybe he has a different system that works better for you maybe he has other ideas that work better for you but really it doesn't matter if you call me coach Mike or you know coach Scandal it doesn't matter what my name is the real thing is can I positively impact who you're going to be as a person and an athlete and if that changes because the target always changes Brad you're different today than you were 40 years ago or 20 years ago 30 years ago that Target changes so maybe you need a different guy tomorrow but for right now you know Grant and I will continue to work together how did you get to this disposition did you have some great coaching experience or did you have some negative ones in the Collegiate system that you ran in and and your professional career um because I I wish all coach would speak like this and I I see still the pervasiveness of um you know some some impure motivations um with with even you know great coaches in in major sports well that is a very unique question that I will answer it as number one everything I do coaching wise I stole I am not the greatest coach I take a little bit of Brad Karns and I take a little bit of uh whoever you lard whatever I I everything I do I stole I'm and you can steal it too Brad if you like it steal it go ahead I post I answer your questions outright I will I'm very I'm an open book when it comes to like what do you do this and why the only reason I don't provide too much detail is because those arm Shure quarterbacks they just yell at me and I'm like if you don't like it don't do it I'm not telling you to do it but real uh reality is Brad that I'm a coach that's still learn learns and I don't know everything and if I don't know everything I certainly can't know everything about you Andor about somebody else and what's best for them I try to do very very good but I know I am not the be all end all coach I'm just a coach so I want to be a good coach and I still change my systems all the time but to think you know just because of this this result happened I think I think maybe too often the egos get in the way of reality and um I certainly I have some unbelievable success stories Beyond Grant Fisher and I think it's great but everybody wants to talk about Grant because you know he excelled at the athletic level unbelievably which I'm fine chatting about but really to answer your question unfortunately I would say that a lot of that is ego driven um when people wind up maybe taking too much credit for the end product I wonder if um is there some some secretiveness that's still around amongst the elite athletes I mean you're saying you're an open book so if I asked you like what are Grant Fisher's best threshold workouts at altitude would you share that with the world or do you have to keep a little bit of unfortunately I don't you can't do Grant Fishers workouts Brad if you come here now we'll put you through one we'll see how it goes for you um you know I'm very scientifically based there's no doubt about it Grant wanted that as a CH so I've been testing lactate and taking lactate for probably close to 40 years before it was popular certainly and Grant wanted a little more control over the outcome of workouts and so we did that and I can share workouts I don't mind sharing workouts but I really like to share the premise of workouts why did you do the tempo Brad and how many minutes did you do the tempo and at what effort level did you do the tempo that's what's important to you now that Grant did three times too mile today I mean it just it just isn't that important but you know why did you do it how did you do it and what did you get out of it that's what you need to know so that you can do the same thing for your body so you're you're very scientific based in your approach you have the the tools available to us now like testing blood lactate if listeners aren't familiar this is something that you can even do during the workout you can prick your finger and check these readings that are very important to uh what the training adaptation is but I also want to ask because I think this is where the magic comes through especially with with you and Grant and and what was uh what's been achieved is you also have sort of a um a real life or an intuitive element that you have to Overlay uh every day and every workout that is true so the science behind our workouts is well known and well laid out in every book you want to read it's it's that is no that's not the guessing part of it the the coaching aspect is the art aspect when I look in his eyes in a workout I want to know how hard is he working and how hard is he thinking and then a lot of times I'll say hey this is what my eyes are telling me what do you feel and then we might test to see if I'm right or not and for him in one day we might test his blood six to eight times in a workout so we test fairly often and the adjustments are very small Brad we're targeting really tight um lactate numbers in a workout so as the workout goes on let's say our volume is 26 minutes today of this type of work you know at 12 minutes you are at this level and at 18 minutes you might be at a different level and we might have to adjust the pace or adjust the length of the interval we adjust all sorts of things length of the interval down to like 15 seconds so the interval might be 2 minutes it might be 1 145 it might be 230 we adjust that and then also the rest we might adjust the rest 10 seconds from 30 seconds to 40 seconds depending on the day and we might adjust the speed we might by a tenth of a mile an hour on a treadmill for example or four seconds in a mile repeat that is nothing but it grants level you know he can adjust uh a mile without a watch Within four to 5 seconds per mile you just tell him hey this is the new pace and boom he he feels it he knows it and so then we use the lactate to verify what my eyes are telling so just to get a little lay person friendly we're talking about there's a familiar example of Anor robic threshold training where we know that correlates to a certain blood lactate level but maybe you could give like a practical example of uh what you're trying to do with all that that finger pricking during the workout and this is this is only during the workout that you're testing um lactate in particular and you're also watching heart rate or what other things are you testing so um I do have several um portable lactate analyzers so we do that during the workout and I will answer your question about lactate uh you asked me two questions the other thing is we uh I also have a portable uh hematocrite and hemoglobin tester so those are not very popular and uh I won't even tell you where I got it why I got it Channel 2000 you can order it online exactly never heard of that that's incredible now you have and so um we utilize that not in training because that's a that's something that occurs over time with the element of altitude training which we believe is very important and so um that system or that testing device we use out of training but the lactate we use in training now for your example um we like to Target between 3.8 and 4.0 milles of you know of lactate per liter of blood do you know these figures right that's uh that's anerobic threshold has been correlated with 4.0 milles of accumulation of this I guess you could call it a um a byproduct of energy production a lot of people misunderstand that but and it's not a bad thing it's just some of it gets you know recycled into the body which is good and some of it then you know gets stored or you can't do anything with it right and so yes we target that so we will for example let's say we will try a workout and I'll say okay the the goal is um Tempo 4.0 let's say it's 4.0 so we have found that at altitude or in Arizona in the heat it's the same thing we have to cut our our tempos way back to between 9 and 12 minutes and I do this right now with my Arizona people too 9 and 12 minutes otherwise the lactate climbs too fast and so for example let's say you're running five minute pace at Tempo pace you're five minute pace right now now if the weather is 43 degrees and it's you know a nice it's a beautiful day with no wind you can easily run four miles no straight away four miles and that's a staple for me is a Four Mile Tempo we cannot do that in Arizona because honestly after just like I said it's somewhere around 10 to 13 minutes that starts really climbing and now my workout is ruined and so boom We Run nine minutes like I just gave you the example we run three times two mile repeats we run up to nine minutes or in Grant's case you know it's very close and then we take a short break and we do it again we take a short break and we do it again and that way we are never Crossing that line we want to stay behind that line so that's an example of how we use that in training and we might you know let's go back to my f minute pace guide just in case you know somebody's listening and wants to kind of associate it we might go five minutes and five minutes for a 10 flat 2 mile on the first rep and then depending on how it goes wind really screws up your effort Levels by the way so if it's a really windy day we really have a hard time we might go 1020 on the second interval we'll adjust immediately we don't wait we don't say oh try another one we don't do that if the level is too high we adjust immediately within within seconds so that's how we use that tool and we use it often uh if you're if you're watching on video when Mike said ruined the workout I smiled and I was thinking back to and looking looking at you on the screen and thinking back to our days uh on the on the racing circuit in the in the 80s and 90s and um you know I'm I'm also thinking this is why the athletes continue to progress and go so much faster is they become smarter about their training and I I contend that um I probably ruined a lot of workouts as as perhaps you did too by using that competitive intensity to work really hard and try to keep the same Pace into the wind or in the in the summer heat in Arizona and maybe you can just describe what what that really means when you how do you ruin a workout by let's say you don't have your meters with you and you're just going with your uh competitiveness in the pack and and I guess abusing the body in a way um it's very very easy like the let's just go with the college system the college system is really simple I'll write your week right now and then you're going to repeat it 52 times on Monday you're going to come out and warm up and I'm going to kill you on Tuesday you're going to run easy and on Wednesday you're going to come out and warm up and I'm going to kill you and on Thursday you're going to run easy and then on Friday I know this is going to be a shock but you're going to warm up and I'm going to kill you that's the whole s and they just repeat it and repeat it and repeat it well my high school guys want to do that too by the way I coach High School I don't know if you know that but I coach High School guys and the lactate analyzer the best thing about it is I can show them I can tell them we're going to Target 40 today and I can show them you're at 56 you're slowing down and what happens with the wind or other elements and and I do have guys run the treadmill often because it eliminates all these elements that you have to deal with when you're out on a graveled road that's hilly or windy it doesn't matter it eliminates all this other stuff that goes on but the bottom line is with an analyzer you can show them and say wait a second the purpose of today the goal of today and the outcome for today are being affected because you're not adjusting to what's going on outside of your body you know the wind is creating too much effort and then you it's not an even thing I run a 200 with the wind and it's super easy so my you know my effort level goes down then I run a 200 Against the Wind your effort level is 120% or whatever and then you go with the win it's not a it's not a zero sum game it doesn't work that way you cannot do that and once you start crossing the line into like say six six seven8 once you get up into that part of the curve honestly it becomes exponential and you never recover so when I say ruin the workout I mean run too hard early and then try to adjust back and it does not work so easy you need to creep up from the easy side and touch it just touch the level and hang out right below the level once you start Crossing and really it's about eight you know between six and eight is when it really starts climbing quickly and you you you're you ruin the workout at that level in my opinion there's there are days that we run at that level Brad but not the tempo day that we're describing right right um and there's a lot of ways to to ruin the workout like you describe if it's hot if it's at altitude and then I suppose there's a third one where the athlete is just not um well recovered and that will also show up with higher than normal accumulations even though they're running what they believe to be a pace that's normal typical and within their capacity yeah so that's now you're asking another question and that's what kind of volume and load can you put on Brad so that he absorbs the training and is ready for the next session and that is a really F that is a coaching line right there how much can I give you so that we're going to get our work in today but also you're going to be ready for Friday right that's that's the deal how much load can I give you today so that you can recover for the next session and that is I call that absorbing the training and if an athlete isn't absorbing the training then you're right they are too tired and yes that is an effect also other things also affect that same thing um you know if you're sick if your body's working too hard you know it doesn't matter what the number says uh if your lactate is 40 and your your watch says 512 Pace honestly it doesn't matter you might have to run five minute pace in three days now it doesn't vary quite that much but if you're sick it would right you would have to run 520 pace and get the same effort out the same benefits to the system out but your numbers don't match and so it's a really good tool for guys that just are grinders I mean it's a really good tool and there are a lot of grind out because you know every day of my running career until I was 26 years old every day ran as hard as I could I mean if you gave me a workout it was just you know as hard as I could run I mean 24 quarters I did that many times in college 24 times 400 and just nail them well Brad you know I was a runner right of course yeah listeners this guy was I mean I would say you're the fastest runner that's ever done a do Athlon and so you pretty much messed up all our races and I was scared to race you because I knew I was going to suffer like never before uh hope hoping to um you know make up some ground on the bike but uh you were you were the torture guy in the pack for sure yes I I have vivid memories of you soliciting other Riders to drop me in the bike I now soliciting other soliciting people to slow down the pack at the on the first run of the run bikee run duathlon yeah uh so if one is not equipped with the the technology um will heart rate reveal these things pretty accurately in terms of you know identifying let's say your Anor robic threshold heart rate is uh 153 or whatever you got your fancy test at the health club one day can you carry that with you and trained pretty well by by heart rate alone which is more accessible I'd say yeah I would say it's more accessible as well and the answer is absolutely yes so and it's a it's a great device but you have the thing about all these toys and tricks and and and devices is you've got to listen to it so a lot of people the wait could we uh could we pause there and hit 15sec rewind for people oh wait I have all the tech I need oh I got to listen to it okay yes okay got listen to it because if you believe the tech is accurate and believe most heart rate monitors are pretty darn good these days then pay attention to it and so you know you it's not that big of a deal but a lot of people want to be coached by their watch or by straa or what they post later you you've got to listen to what's best for your body and a heart rate's a great way to do that uh so I'm gonna ask you about the the carefully laid plan that you you you and Grant set up I I I've listened listen to or read some other stuff where you're sitting down in the in the coffee shop and and writing a plan from day one all the way to the Olympics so you're writing these huge uh long long-term plans tell us about the details there and then also my backup question is how often do you have to deviate from that plan with an elite athlete who's living in breathing training um so the way that worked that's true story by the way we sat down in a coffee shop and we started with the premise what can I do for you that is exactly what I said to him we sat there for hours and I told him what my philosophies were on training and we talked about you know what percentage of this volume should this be what percentage of this you know should be and and I did want him to start at 90 miles a week that's true that's been out there I have no problem telling you that and so then once that session was over I said do you want me to write the plan he said yes so it took me it it probably took me a week so I wrote the plan in three phases one through the 10 in March one through Olympic trials June 30th and one through August 10th the final in the Olympic Games when was the sit down when was the sit down meeting I I don't know it was probably September October so we're talking like um you know an eight or nine month build to to the Olympics yes or 10 or 11 month build okay so that's when you you you first um we should jump in a little bit where you coach Grant in high school and then uh he went his way to to Stanford and the professional uh running teams that we talked about and so you had this sitdown meeting to kind of reunite and and go for this uh incredible Olympic goal right and so at that point you know Grant had known what my priorities were in um training and Grant was doing two a days in high school uh just one day a week on Tuesdays and Grant knew that we you know he knew my firm belief in Tempo and subo running and other phases that were very very important and now of course with Inger britson coming out with this double te thing that's all the rage now you know granted that's part of the training but uh lactate testing and threshold training has always been a part of Grant Fisher's training it's you know it's not new to him and so uh we laid that out and the way I do everything was I wrote down the time for the final in the 5K and that's the goal August 10th and then I wrote down the prelim and then I wrote down the 10,000 August 2nd and then I work backwards from there this is your goal these three things are your goal those you know one's a defensive race the middle one the prelim but these are two offensive races we want to play offense in these races so then from there I go stepwise back and say before you line up for the 10 you need x amount of session well I've already said it somewhere else so I'll tell you my brain says you need six sessions and six sessions only of raw speed raw speed work I don't believe in raw speed work very much by the way so six sessions so now the 10 is there and now I work backwards and insert the speed sessions back to whatever date you want to say and then we get close to the trials because I we couldn't get all the speed in before the trials happened so we did a couple sessions before the trials not many but a couple but it's my belief you have to have that and then also with V2 Max you know minimum of six maximum of eight sessions so I start inserting vet2 Max in and I work back from the goal and I just work back into the calendar overall and then there's other elements of training the long runs the tempo runs the sub threshold runs we have all of those things that we put in from the end goal all the way back to tomorrow is day one the plan and there were breaks in there there were we we put in you know he was socializing or getting a break around Christmas time to visit family we put travel in there we knew everything where you're going to be if you're going to live in altitude how many days you going to be at altitude how many days you g to be out of altitude all of that got put on the calendar and then it took me a week to put in every one of the workouts and then uh I sat down with Grant really for maybe four to 12 weeks at a time and we sat down face to face because you know I was going to training so in between the sessions sat down face to face and said okay read this this is what we're going to do do you like it and then we would talk about it oh I got to make an appearance at nxn okay we're going to be in Portland for that or we're going to be in you know we're going to be on the Nike track then we're going to adjust the workout the style because we're going to be in the rain most likely and we were but you know you got to think about this and then you add all of that up and then Grant never did one workout this year that he didn't agree with and I wholeheartedly believe that that at your level Brad the level that you ended up you know professional level you have to know what you're going to do and you have to believe that that's what's going to get Brad onto the podium and in Grant's case he signed off on weeks at a time 12 weeks at a time and then really we I really only gave him the time up to the 10 cuz he had to run 27 minutes there and so or 2659 what that's a that's an event people it's called the 10 in I believe April or something in Southern California that's correct March yeah and that was a very important race because um people probably don't understand this when you see the Olympic 10,000 meter race and there's 29 guys on the track or 34 they qualified by running the Olympic standard that you have to run before the Olympics otherwise you can't get on the track so he had he had really three important events because you got to go make the team in June it's it's tough being an American you got to run that standard make the team and then you had the Olympic final this is unique to the 10,000 meters it's so long distance they don't make athletes run two of them at the Olympics and in every other event on the track they run two or three event two or three you know heat semi-finals finals so he had this race called the 10 in Southern California that you're referring to right and so at the 10 the plan only the only thing that mattered was break 27 you go to run 26 59.99 and we'd have been happy yeah or come 20 12th Place and still be happy it doesn't matter you need to break 27 and so really I gave him that block and then that block of training lasted all the way through the 10 then I gave him the block through the Olympic trials and then I gave him the block to August 10th and then on August 11th I gave him the block to the end of the season now so he has that that wasn't part of the original plan by the way that that I did in Paris after uh after celebrating and he's got medals around his neck now you're gon to give him another block here you go dude I did tell him to enjoy are over yeah hope you had fun last night here's your block five almost exactly it I did tell him in Paris I said uh I I'm going to leave you alone for a week the first five days were easy I'm going to leave you alone for a week that lasted about 30 hours I I had to call and check in if his body was beat up or you know so anyway that's the way that worked and then you asked did we change it and the answer is no so um we adjusted the the day we didn't we never adjusted the premise of the day so if we were doing V2 Max on this day on March 11th we did a V2 Max now did we do eight times a TH or six times a TH or 10 times a th that could have changed but the idea behind the day didn't change and it didn't change because we needed that element to be satisfied that day or certainly in that block to get to our end goal and so those things didn't change and uh well that's remarkable man because um even at the elite level we see guys going down with injury illness setbacks and so you're saying that he never once had the sniffles or a fever or a sore left foot that required you guys to go back to the drawing board and that is the essence of Grant Fisher he takes care of everything he takes care of sleep he takes care of massage he takes care of uh his health he makes his food at home I mean that is the essence of Grant he does all of those things so that he's ready for all the sessions and you're right he did not get sick he did not get injured he did not miss a session so you know here and there we adjusted I'm you know I don't want to be say it's was completely perfect but there were some thing life got in the way there was some travel some family travel that happened we did have to adjust the week you know or if I don't know if something happened where you know he was asked to come to a presentation someplace maybe we flew into a location and changed that but the premise of the workouts they they stayed the same and Kudos the anant for taking care of everything else he never ever ever had a hiccup not one hiccup wow yeah well that's how you get two bronze medals I guess I guess yes so I mean just to jump in about overuse injuries they are a huge concern all the way up to the highest level and the top performers so how do you guys navigate that constant risk and that constant thing hanging over well I coach uh a couple things but one thing specifically on every day of every week I coach um distance speed and surface so I don't let my guys run on sidewalks ever n never I mean you you talked about Park City one of the greatest things about Park city is he never runs on a hard surface he runs on dirt and trails and all the time all the time all the time all the time now granted if it's really rainy or something like that and we have to run on a bike trail at some point then we will but in general you know Park City's full of soft surfaces and you have to coach that because that that's one of those things that you don't know until it's too late you don't know until it's six weeks after when you should have adjusted it see you can't make that mistake you've got to coach that and with my younger athletes I have to say it every single day it's like a broken record you have to tell them you're not going to run any faster than this you're not going to run on this surface and you're going to go you're going to run this distance and that's it you have to do those things and you know and you cannot get faster if you're if you're H sitting on the sideline you have to be injury free of all the coaching stuff you've got to stay injury free you think hard surface is one of the big factors of overuse injury well overuse technically is overusing the body and you can do that you know I was a mileage Maniac guy so um you know if I was vertical trained and so overuse comes on by you know just abusing your body and not allowing it to recover that's the bottom line and if you can do 130 miles a week or 120 a week and I can only do 90 then and I get overuse injuries at 100 that's my body that's I got to keep it under a 100 right and you might be a guy I mean daythan was a guy that I mean that dude could run some mileage he's so efficient across the ground daythan ritzen sorry he's so efficient across the ground that he could manage a higher load mileage wise than many other Runners and uh you you know overuse is just your your body is not recovering so I don't care if it's too much load too much volume or hard surface none it it does not matter you didn't do it right fix that uh so maybe tell us about Grant's uh season where he he was busted up and he couldn't make the the world team that was 23 he he missed he missed the big events due to injury or 22 I can't remember um it was last year a year ago right right now um you know I wasn't coaching him at the time so I don't know when when Grant is being coached by somebody else or anybody any of my athletes I don't care if he's being coached by somebody else I'm a fan at that point I go to the meets I yell I scream I support them a fan so I don't know uh what caused the issues last year at all um I wasn't talking to Grant weekly daily Etc I'm just a fan at that point and so I can't really answer your question I don't know I guess that was perhaps a driving factor in him exploring the opportunity for change in a different approach it might have been I think he has made comment that that was part of it but also I do Grant's a he's super intelligent and so I believe he really enjoyed after he left so in high school we did a bunch of scientific training and then he left and he got away from that and I think you know for Grant it was like normal like you know this isn't this how everyone trains you know because that's what he learned right so that was not like an abnormal thing that was part of our coaching that's part of my coaching and so he learned that system and then he got away from it got away from it I think he wanted a little more control over that and a little more scientific based stuff and so that was probably another reason he came back uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna uh since we're buddies I'm gonna I'm gonna tease you a little here with this question so you're sitting in a cafe with this guy Grant fiser who's the number one American distance Runner and you decide to go in the direction that you went did you feel any uh nervousness or pressure that you're writing up a schedule in the United States of America is looking over your shoulder saying come on dude we need some we need to break this metal drought in the distance events oh there's no pressure at all Brad and my good friends like you certainly would never call or text me and go scan don't screw this up hey scan this is great don't mess up we're rooting for you we're gonna we're gonna throw you in the garbage can if anything goes wrong oh my goodness yeah of course there's pressure to do that and uh in my brain I think okay this is going to work and in my brain I think we should be good on this path and um and grants influence on that you know you have a coach me and I say okay let's do x amount of volume at this level and in my brain I always say that's what athletes can manage like in my high school my high school athletes I do everything on 24 minutes just FYI so I'll say 24 minutes of work today well in Grant's case he would come back and say oh I'm gonna go I I would like to do 30 minutes at that same level of intensity and I'm like wow I mean in my brain I'm that's like a red flag hey wait a minute we got to be careful here but you know what Grant knows his body and he was right and so uh yeah I definitely had some pundits telling me that I didn't know what I was doing but coaching wise I did know what I was doing and then the only question was can you apply that to a a new Target like I applied it to the high school Grant Fisher Target and then I applied that to the professional athlete Target and I certainly I I went out and asked guys like you Brad Brad what's your experience with the what's your experience moving 24 to 30 minutes of this kind of volume tell me your experience Brad and then you a and you know I know you I know a bunch of fast use so I made some phone calls and said hey what what is your thought on this and uh and the the idea the tempo idea didn't change maybe the volume did maybe the the rest went from one to two minutes or something like that but um you know I had to learn a little bit and adjust a little bit because he's different than he used to be that's for sure and little faster huh a little faster a little faster a little faster in high school a little faster high school but yeah there was some yes I you know we're very close in training like as in can you run a 438 mile now 436 I mean it's it's nothing if you think about it but I wanted to make sure those adjustments were right and there became there was pressure there was validation at the 10 he jogged in that race by the way he was jogging you go back and watch him he was never in trouble in the 10 which was planned for but I you know then it worked then there's validation okay we're on the right track right and did he cross the line with that sentiment that this was a breeze to break 27 well you know we we can't say that in front of everybody but yeah you know I want to know those are my eyes my eyes are telling me this is what's going on inside your body am I right and then we have a conversation about it and uh you know and then he he backed it up with a a two mile American record which was great or indor door we did a two-mile American record before the 10 that was great and then you know we made a few adjustments into the intensity of certain workouts before trials I just told you that a second ago but uh yeah there there definitely is some pressure and there is some validation and relief you know part of my emotional output at the trials I mean if you watch the trials I I'm legitimately I'm emotional I'm crying I'm like oh my goodness it works Brad Brad it worked yeah yeah I mean all this tion is just going crazy yeah um tell us about uh Paris so the trials were in uh late June and then you had that that final build of incredibly important training and then uh you you flew over there and uh had some action going on in Paris what was that like for you as the coach and what was the um you know the routine like for the duration of the Olympics because I know um we're get that uh spoiler how he took off and went to the mountains which is super interesting for uh an athlete doing that during the Olympics yeah well so the Olympics started before the television's cameras started rolling so we were in St meritz train uh training an altitude to get both uh the altitude adjustment up there and the altitude benefit up there and also get adjusted to the time zone so we wanted to do that so that we were all good to go when Paris came it would just be another workday basically so we went to St meritz and trained for a couple of weeks and it was just basically him and I and it was very quiet businesslike it was great there's a lot of other athletes up there but you know when it was when it was time to work it was just he and I on the track or wherever we were working that day so that was great and then we skipped all the Olympics are a huge show and so because Grant's sole Focus was getting on the podium it really was work and so we skipped all of the hoopla we had set up in advance a hotel room so we could guaranteed an air conditioner and guaranteed good sleep so um Grant did not he did have a a location to stay in the village but he did not do that he stayed in a hotel room outside of the village and with a good air conditioner and it was great and so got to Paris right before the 10,000 and based on that other stuff we talked about earlier when you come off of altitude you lose a little bit of the benefit and you want to know and we test this does day one how much do you lose on day one how much do you lose on day two how much do you lose on day three how does this work and what day do you need to come in to maximize both the travel getting over the travel and not losing the benefit of altitude so we train that and we we know that and so we went very late into the Olympics came in did premat on the track to see how it was going to go the track there was phenomenally fast we were on the track the day before the 10,000 the actual track it was the only day you were allowed on so we made sure we were there that day and then boom the 10 goes off and the race plan for the 10 was it was there was never never one second in that race where the idea wasn't to be in the top three hang out in the top three and yeah he stumbled yeah he got pushed yeah he got clipped but you could see in his eyes and he is so good at this you can see in his eyes what he wanted to get done and so the 10,000 goes off and you know for a little while there I thought he was gonna prank through the whole field I don't know if you knew that but as you watch the 10,000 with 80 meters to go his velocity was so good and then know that move stalled later with about 30 meters to go and then somebody clipped him or or we clipped him at the end but um you know he got on the podium and he looked really good doing it I wish that race was faster so 263 is great but honestly another 15 seconds faster would have been more beneficial to Grant less traffic in the end yeah but uh the goal is the goal and he achieved it was there a complex strategy uh before the race or did you have like a few different scenarios that you discussed and how how it would he react to a slow pace a super fast pace or what have you so we do have a primary race plan there's no doubt about it pick some ass get on the podium and so we have a primary race plan and turns out in the 10 that is exactly what happened we kind of assumed there would be a little bit of teamwork going on with a couple of the other teams that had pretty Heavy Hitters in the race that happened and then we assumed well you know the move in the 10 was about 120 to 130 out that might have been a little bit uh early to be truthful I mean if we' moved that back to 80 maybe he would have you know gotten even higher on the podium but uh you know it's it's a race there's other guys that want to win as well you know so no one's handing out medals and going ah you could take this one I don't want this one you know it's very difficult so you do your best to give a a strategy a but um we talked very little in the 10 about strategy B because we figured strategy a would be right and it was now the 5,000 was different though Brad you know that that was definitely um not necessarily strategy a just so you know yeah I guess the longer it is I mean uh you can have all the strategies in your back pocket in the 10 but if you can't hold with the pace it none of it matters and then of course you have to react anyway like you like you mentioned um going at 120 in hindsight it would have been better to go at 80 but um in hindsight there was 27 people that didn't win a medal and three people that did so um you know it worked out worked out beautifully um so so after that incredible high of of winning the bronze medal um it was it was soon back to work take us through the the ensuing days of the Olympics So the plan was we what we didn't plann for was the Mayhem we didn't go for hey when you do this there's going to be Mayhem we didn't plan for that at all wow so uh you know the media right away um the the race was late at night to start with and then media and drug testing and warming down took us out out of the stadium probably about 1: in the morning after the 10,000 so we were there for hours hours and hours and uh the family was waiting outside the the stadium had closed and we couldn't even get out of the stadium because it was completely locked and the Fisher family was waiting outside my kids were there they were waiting outside there were and it was pitch dark and there's nobody there except the Fisher family which was correct because we had not celebrated at all it had been all work and all business and all media and so we had not celebrated at all and then when we were leaving the stadium I got several text messages that said you guys can't leave we were going to leave at 9:00 am we had we had flight booked we had flight train I mean you name it we had all this Transportation booked and uh yeah and somebody caught wind of it and they were started texting you're you're not doing that because you know the awards ceremonies tomorrow night and and he will be there and so so this is like Olympic officials usatf officials they're they're literally telling you you a you ain't going back to your vacation condo nice try on the planning phase but we just changed that for you so then um we went we W up going home we celebrated just for a few minutes like maybe a half an hour at the most and took a few pictures and said goodbye and then Grant and I went back and we honestly had to unravel everything so all of the travel had to be redone and he's on a computer I'm on a computer trying to book travel for the 24 hours later and there's nothing available and the times don't work the trains don't work and so the cars don't work I mean it was so at 3:30 that morning I I said Grant you're going to bed we'll figure this I we'll figure it out tomorrow and then uh I slept for two hours and I got up and ran and I was like there's no way he's up he's got to be sleeping within an hour he had text me and said all right I've I've looked at this oh I know he didn't sleep either oh so um but you know the the celebration and about going to the uh the podium and the the award stand and I mean representing the United States and the culmination of a dream that probably started when he was in high school I mean it was just an amazing amazing thing to witness just how happy he was because you know what it doesn't happen to everybody it's not it's not a normal thing and so I I did want him to digest that a little bit but in reality it probably didn't get digested until after the 5,000 was over because we got right back to work on the 5000 strategy almost immediately so yeah he did go back up to altitude there is a significant benefit to going to altitude just for a short period of time and so he went back up to altitude and came back down for the five prelim uh describe the the benefits of living and training at altitude from the hertica perspective as well as whatever else you got to say about that for the The Listener that might not be familiar we hear all about it but maybe not the the scientific detail of what's going on when the when the body's existing at altitude as an athlete the the primary benefit is that your body demands the same amount of oxygen that it does at lower altitude but your body cannot circulate that oxygen into your body and so it builds additional red blood cells that is the simplest thing I can tell you that your body produces additional red blood cells and now you're carrying along a larger volume of red blood cells now if you have a larger volume of red blood cells they can circulate faster or with less heart beats because you have a larger volume of blood to carry oxygen when you go back down to sea level and so the benefit of living up there is your body and it takes your body weeks to do this to get the full benefit of of altitude it takes your body weeks of living altitude and we know how many days that is for Grant because we test that and likewise your body reacts instantly to being at altitude so if you go to altitude right now Brad your body is way smarter than you and I and it immediately says you just changed something I am G to fix it and your body starts making additional red blood cells right away and so you know there's a super super reaction immediately and then that reaction kind of goes down over time until you're fully um transitioned to altitude acclamation and you should know you know it depends on what level athlete you are but you should know what those things are so that you can time out your performance your Peak Performance against all of those things you should know that so when you're when you're up at altitude you're acclimating for a couple few weeks you start to build more red blood cells a higher hematocrite in in the blood value and then um how long does that stick around when you return to sea level and like you said the body's Smart IT realizes it does not need the extra oxygenated blood because there's plenty of air in Paris versus St meritz so how long does the effects last before it starts to before you start to lose the altitude benefit you lose the altitude benefit on moment number one in Paris right away okay it's just that you you don't lose all of it on moment number one and it's different for every person but you know it's generally uh a good guideline and the scientists will all tell you that by 14 days it's gone so if you're going to go to altitude and you're going to race in a month after coming down you know there's really not any benefit at that point of the altitude now maybe there's a training benefit there's a weather benefit there's a resting benefit maybe there's something else but just for the blood values that benefit is gone so and it is it's individually but by 14 days it's gone might be gone by 11 days in your case I don't know but it's it's not in the first week a I know some guys that um would race on the ninth day and they they that out by training and by testing things but we don't race that late you know or we Grant doesn't race that late right so you came you came down uh right before the the 10,000 final what a day or two or three before that yep though you still had plenty of altitude driven benefits oh plenty yes yeah and then the same thing with the 5K except we had to run he hadn't run a prelim so he he came down the day before the prelim now typically you'd say wait a minute the travel now is too great but we knew the prelim would be defensive right it wouldn't be a we need you at 100% we just need you to you know be able to run a a quarter that's it and so he came down right before the prelim right defensive you mean you have to come in the top six or whatever it was and so that's all he's concerned about not not blowing his entire energy but just running fast enough to qualify for the final yeah defensive means that there's eight there were eight slots given away and so there was no difference between one and eight because all you did is qualify so can a lot of athletes forget that they can forget it I don't care as long as Grant doesn't forget it I don't care what the other athletes think but you can see late in the race they're counting you know they're looking around and you say why are they looking around they're counting they're counting heads and should be counting heads the best athletes count heads and so yeah that was a defensive strategy you know make sure you're in the top eight it didn't matter if you won or not and he didn't win and so then the final is what two more days later right we had you're hanging out in your air conditioned hotel room in Paris yeah it's a very smart thing Brad to to cover all the bases yeah I've actually you know you've probably heard the the criticism uh directed at athletes who aren't getting the full Olympic experience what do you mean Grant missed the boat ride in the opening ceremonies but I don't think people you know we ask so much of these athletes and we demand that they perform and then we also want to want to cast judgment on things like grabbing a hotel room with air conditioning rather than some rockus Olympic Village by the end of the the meet I mean the 10,000 kick things off but then the 5,000 there's probably guys in the village staying up all night partying because their events are over you're right about that and even though the 10,000 was first it wasn't the first Olympic event it was probably a solid weekend there were other there were other teams that were completely done and yeah swimming gymnastics exactly those Rowdy swimmers they were the rowdiest college athletes I know that Rowdy swimmer you and you're right about that those guys are done and so what's their motivation to go to bed by 9: and get a full night's rest zero they're now on party mode and so you don't wanna well I mean the Olympics is a celebration so yeah I'm not judging them for partying but I also don't want Grant in the same hall or in the same certainly not in the same room not in the same Hall not even the same building of a party a rager why would you do that he still has work to do and you know I don't want him standing on a boat for those Opening Ceremonies they like eight n n hour commitments you see them for 15 minutes on TV they line up at 2 in the afternoon I mean it's it's a fullon day and that just drains energy and you need all of your energy for the 10,000 so that wasn't going to happen Okay so we qualified safely and then uh take us to the 5,000 final which was a huge um long expected uh inor britz and in there trying to avenge his um his dramatic defeat in the 1500 and now we have uh seemingly a lot more t tactics and strategy that are potentially going to come into the mix Yes except I really plan a for the 5000 was for that to be an honest race I really thought that I thought that race was going to go 1248 that was my prediction like I told you that they well I told Grant they're gonna go run 2645 in the 10 I did say that the day before I said you're going to run 2645 no problem tomorrow plan on running fast this is the way it's ago my prediction for the five was 1248 I was totally wrong they sat around I don't understand why they sat around because some of the guys in the field needed that field to be spread out a lot more than it was but plan a was that it was going to go faster it did not but the end of plan a was to be patient and watch the initial moves and cover the initial moves which started about a thousand too just you know if you started to watch or watch the end of that race so cover the initial moves and watch the initial moves and do not move until very very very late and the move on that was 60 meters so he moved it from 120 because he didn't get to the Finish Line in the 10 we moved it to 60 and really like I told you at the beginning of the show it should have been 70 because he was still increasing speed so that was that's a coaching mistake I'll I'll correct it but um the move was at 60 M and I told them be patient it will open up on the on the uh home stretch it will open up the field will spread apart and when it does boom take advantage of it and 60 meters out take that's when the goal point was for the five and uh he wasn't even the frame of camera did just did you watch it on TV oh yeah many times he's not even there I mean there's no Grant Fisher none he's he's out of the uh you know the the announcer they don't even know his name he's out of the camera frame I mean everything is De and then all of a sudden he's not and uh you know that whatever happened at the end of the five I can say as much as I want I can tell you everything I want it doesn't matter what matters is what went through Grant Fisher's brain and that guy decided to get a medal in the five with nine seconds to go we planed for the last 10 seconds of that race for a long long time and he's the one that that he wanted a medal and he got how did you know had had so much uh belief that that that was going to how go out that way where the space would open up on the last lap and so forth the space opening up on the last lap wasn't that difficult to predict the place I was wrong was the first 4K I was wrong there I thought those guys would run faster because some of them needed to run faster if that race would have been faster throughout the Medalist the medal positions would have changed I don't know how but it would have changed you know and they did not do that they let Jacob yakob um really just control the last thousand and that became a thousand meter race he ran 219 but Grant ran 221 at the end of that race so I mean it's a phenomenal thousand without the 4,000 to get there and right yeah my my prediction was wrong on the first 4,000 and right on the last and that honestly is just from watching Olympic Championship racing honestly is just you know you want to give the athlete a a movie so that when it comes on they know I've been to the i' I've seen this before and so in practice the last week before that we ran through the last 10 seconds of that race I don't know how many times but let's round it off at uh 20 let's round it off at so we rent through that and and I as he's running I'm talking out loud loudly on the track saying what's happening I want him to see this I want him to visualize this and so that he can see what's going to go happen and what he's going to do how will he react to this movie and we did it often and fortunately that's exactly what happened so I've been wrong about race plans I was wrong about the first 4,000 um there always has to be a plan B Grant is very good at adjusting if he needs to in this case he didn't really adjust too much was there ever a scenario where he would be an instigator like if they're running 14-minute pace would would you send him off or would that be noo not at the Olympics that wasn't part now and did did yakob ask you for advice before the 1500 I know him he trains in Arizona so right but no he and I don't share race plans but um but if you look at the trial strategy go back and look at the 10,000 in trials go back and look at the 5,000 in the trials those strategies are different I don't like to send the kid I don't like to said Grant to the line with the strategy that he used yesterday so Brad can go well Grant's just gonna do this no he's not no I don't want you to know what he's going to do and you know the trial strategies were completely different than the Olympic strategies completely right you assist the competition and stuff yes and there's no reason for Grant fiser to take the lead in the Olympics the first 4,000 meters at all that his chances of meddling go down in that case and that wasn't makes sense man makes sense I'm just shocked that some of the strategies carried out and and you know I think there's possibly just a um you know a lack of intense focus on getting on the podium as Grant stated goal was and maybe there's athletes there that um want to um win honorably as as yakob says to his discredit on that particular quote but you know uh the the uh the podcaster said the way to the way to race honorably is to win the gold I mean that you know to win a medal but uh it gets tricky out there on the track when you have to think on your feed and all that and you decisions are made a thousandth of a second a tenth of a second I mean and then we talk about those decisions for 20 hours afterward but you didn't get 20 hours to make that decision you got three steps and so in the 10,000 the Assumption was that Grant fer had to be ready to move in three steps that we talked about that for for months it's a three-step move and if you're not on it by three steps and if you go back and look at his La race he raced an LA 3K and he was off the move by 7 steps and was never in it was a three-step move and you have to be there for the three steps you have to take those three steps you don't get to decide I'll cover that later it's not that's not part of it and so I think a lot of times Brad really um athletes go to the line without a clear picture of what they want at the end and I think it makes me look like a good coach because I do send athletes to the line but really the only reason I'm a good coach is because I coach good athletes you know it's true you know my athletes make me look great well I like how you say that Grant takes care of his sleep his his therapies his other team members that he needs surrounding him so that he can show up ready to make you look like a great coach I mean that that's that's huge but it's it's hugely true you know it's just true that's it that's all there is to it so now man you you've um you've evolved from this Anonymous uh underground mysterious coach um now you guys are you know in a whole different realm like like the chaos that you uh you described I'm sure some of that has has hit you as well and what does your what does your future ambition look like uh with with respect to how things have changed from the Paris Olympics well I I think it's a little bit ironic or a little bit funny because um I just believe I'm a coach and right now you know Brad if you and I work together I'm your coach now are you a high school athlete are you a college athlete are you a professional athlete but I'm named a high school coach nobody ever says I'm you know now I am Grant Fisher coach but uh you know prior to that I'm just a coach and so for me I have full Focus right now um on my high school guys that are very they're doing very well I expect them to do do very well but when I'm I'm a total scattering you know when you're when I'm at practice you can you can do whatever you want if it's outside of my athletes running around the track or at my athletes doing a workout honestly I I will totally ignore it I'm Cent centrally focused on what I'm doing at the time and right now I've transitioned back to making my high school guys the best high school Runners I can and so that's going on the only other thing that has changed is people want to know like you people want to know how in the heck did this all happen and you know for a while it was very quiet gr you know nobody knew that we were working together it was perfect and then somewhere around January you know somebody made him come out with a statement saying this is what I decided to do and then the attention got put on me but really you know me and the system but really that's kind of easy to ignore when I'm face to face with an athlete at practice I I just don't have that in my brain at all I just I guess I'm able to um keep all of those thoughts away and maybe there's pressure and anxiety that somebody wants to put on me but the real pressure and anxiety comes from me wanting to do the best for you Brad today and I'll work out today and and so uh with with all of the expectations Andor all the things somebody else wants me to believe it's really it's really kind of living in the moment for me I'm a high school coach again right now I'm I was at practice five hours after I landed uh from Paris and you're right practice was intensely focused on did you guys go to bed last night I've never asked Grant did she go to bed last night you know it's a totally different game right did you guys did you eat I mean you you need some carbohydrates after the work you have to eat you know it's a completely different ball game you're training them on everything now I suppose you're getting a a broad spectrum of um ability level commitment level um how do you how do you face that um coming from working with the most focused and talented athlete that you know the country has seen in many years and now you're going to um you know a general population of kids that uh have some enthusiasm to run but you know who knows if they're who knows if they're going to um you know align with everything that you're coaching yeah so I like to mirror your motivation Brad so if you're ready to run every day I'll give you runs every day but if you're only coming to practice three days a week I coach you three days a week I'm not going to come to you and say add I don't do that you're going to come to me and say I want more and if you do Brad I'm going to give you more so if you come to me and say hey what's the benefit of massage I'm going to give you massage and I'm going to make sure you go to a good person for that kind of recovery and if you say Hey you know I ate a bag of Lays chips right before workout and then you threw up you know I'm not GNA say hey uh you know or do you feel sick I'm just GNA say how did that feel maybe you shouldn't eat the bag of chips right before practice but they do that Brad and they need to learn from that and so really I kind of mimic and I I respond back to what they bring to me and I have some really aggressive High School guys right now they're coming to me with a lot of motivation I want to do this and they're it's a group of them it's not one wow I want to do this and and this is the most aggressive I've ever trained a high school group before in my life I've never been this aggressive with kids and they're responding to it they want it so uh to answer your question I don't I I get some kids that just want to participate I participate in coaching I also have some some kids that want to Excel and I excel in coaching so I just kind of try to mirror that that's nice that's probably good advice for all parents listening out there too is just kind of mirror your kids you know natural motivation rather than try to grind it to something that's unnatural yeah and it the phase of life is funny because you know a a seventh or eighth grade boy they just haven't flipped the switch to say they want to be a good athlete yet some of them have but most of them have not and that switch gets flipped somewhere around freshman or sophomore year in most cases so I don't I don't never I never take on a boy uh unless they're the spring of their eighth grade year that's when I took on Grant even though you know I ran with his dad in college his mom was an athlete in college you know you would think hey this kid's got an upside to him I don't care I'm not coaching him until I didn't coach him until his grade uh year even though I worked with his dad every day right his dad and I are in the same office together I'm going to Grant soccer games I watched Grant in karate I went to his you know youth activities I I'm not going to tell him he's gonna run I just didn't right you feel that's um that the timing is important because it's kind of early to make that sincere commitment to to longdistance training when you're in middle school or what have you yeah it's really a motiv ation thing so not that I'm suggesting anyone call me but if you think about it pretty much every time a parent has called me and said will you coach my eighth grade son I've said no I've said no but every time an eighth grader has said will you coach me I've said yes wow that's a profound I think that's a incredible closing statement there man for everyone to reflect upon that's that's like the secret of of par parenting right there and and for kids listening you know that's it it's got to come from within yeah I I've had so many people ask me where do you get all these fast guys and I'm like well I make fast guys I don't get fast guys I don't want to manage a sub for Miler I want to make you a for sub form that's I'm a coach I'm not a manager anyone can manage I mean you know so anyway that that's yeah so before you end though please don't send a thousand phone calls my I pleased well um you're you're uh you're a hard guy to find I I I I kept digging around and um do you do you like to shout out do you have like a Instagram or something where people might be able to connect in some way I I have a uh Twitter or X that I I post on every day I'm my rule for that because my high school kids back in the Grant Fisher days made me get this social media which I swore off I hated social media I still hate it now yeah but I said okay I'll start posting and this is what I'm going to do I'm going to post one motivational thing every day and that's it I'm only going to post one time at 7 am one motivational thing and if you read my post they're all motivational things for high school athletes and that's all and my post is uh what is it at real iron mic do you have it yeah yeah yeah so I didn't make that up my my high school at Runners made me a whole social media thing and I had the little egg there for about six months and they were like you have to you have to put a picture up and but anyway my whole thing is I only want to change one person Brad so if I change you today and you're a little better at what you do yeah tomorrow I'm good with it and if I re if I touch one kid with my post today um then I then I win I worked it it worked for me and I win and and I I share this only because we don't know you don't know Brad um I talked to Young Youth and high school kids all the time one of them and I don't know if I'll talk to them or not or they're going to come from Texas are they're going to come from New Jersey I don't know one of them is going to be an Olympian but I don't know which one but they're all the same Grant was in eighth grade once too and he was not running 415 for the 10,000 4 15 pace for 10,000 you know he just wasn't and so you don't know who you're talking to Brad and so for me I'm I want to motivate them all yeah time that's a great tip I remember my seventh grade teacher we were getting too unruly in in science class and he he he got he lost his temper and he he got up there and he says look you guys talk talk about sports and and you goof around too much and none of you are ever going to make it to the professional level in sports so you better pay attention in class and and he goes I know what I'm talking about cuz I made it to double A baseball before I messed up my shoulder and I was thinking in seventh grade this guy cannot say that to us because he doesn't know and so I used to say to the the kids that I coach like can can anyone tell you that you're not going to make the NBA right now no they're wrong they do not know for sure that you're not going to make the NBA I can guess since your parents are 57 and 53 however I want to put that thought out there that you know everyone needs to have the the open road ahead and believe in themselves and not put limits down and you should and my post from about a week ago was simply this high school kids don't know what they can't do please don't tell them that's great it it's honestly you you cannot make that statement and I I think it was wrong for that well it was wrong in your case Brad you made it to the professional level that's right I proved him wrong he was my driving force I I I'm grateful for him and the college coaches that ruined my running career to drive me to Triathlon it's all all comes out good it's all Stepping Stones all right Mike scan people what a show thank you so much for taking us behind the scenes at the Olympics and all the things behind it best of luck to you grant fiser and your fast High School Runners down there in Arizona too thank you very much for having me Brad it was wonderful to see you smile again and laugh a little bit it was great I really I mean I I I haven't seen you and we haven't haven't connected in a while but I tell your story about being on the police force in Tucson to almost once a month because it's the funniest thing I've ever heard about I mean if you if you wouldn't mind sharing like you know sometimes there's a foot pursuit so people were talking about one of the great you know National level Collegiate distance Runners and I think you surprised some criminals is that what I remember from the story you promised we would not talk about stories but I'll tell you more okay uh yes I I there was never a foot chase I didn't want to be involved in and my rule of thumb was I didn't get paid to fight so I never M I never fought with anybody I didn't mace and so I would just catch them and run by them and I would mace them first and then I would fight and that happened many times and uh in one case my most my most uh uh prolific uh foot pursuit was uh an NF player that he ran really fast for a 100 but I'm a distance Runner and So eventually I won and I didn't know he was a football player until you know later you booked him until I booked him that's right oh my goodness yeah too funny crime doesn't pay people yeah especially when you got a fast longdistance runner chasing you down that was a long time ago Brad long time ago anyway thanks for listening everybody that's a wrap see you