I don't give a [ __ ] what you say yeah I'mma do [ __ ] my way so you can go kick rocks I'mma stack bricks up build what I want you yo I got a lot of [ __ ] to say so I'mma do this every day I'll be writing things until I'm [ __ ] buried in my grave 6 feet deep Wonder but my body won't Decay cuz my messages are time to so they put them on display oh yeah I rap with a certainty I have a sense of urgency a message for eternity for everyone internally I had some people burning me but now they [ __ ] learn toy I ain't the one to [ __ ] with now they look nervously and I don't really care what you think of me respectfully you can kick rocks if you think [ __ ] bettery I will out work you turn you to an enemy hurt you so bad that you're going to need some therapy I got the [ __ ] recipe I've been cooking up hits I'mma leave a legacy you'll be looking small when you standing right next to me I'm 5 10 [ __ ] put up 10 ft I don't give a [ __ ] what you say yeah I'mma do [ __ ] my way so you can go kick rocks I'mma stack bricks up build what I want to cuz I don't give a [ __ ] what you say yeah I'mma do [ __ ] my way so you can go kick CL [Music] I'm welcome everybody how's it going so are you guys ready for the Brian Higgins statement and analysis oh my gosh do you even remember do you remember watching this testimony I've been rewatching all this testimony all these people and there's just so much um there's so much going on with these people's testimony and there's a lot of deception I think surrounding when they arrived back at 34 Fair viiew Road it's really hard to get the timeline straight and it's probably even harder for them because they're scripting these answers that they're giving one thing I noticed they all say over and over again they all talk about her taking this tall glass with clear liquid out of her jacket they all say it was a great time that night they all say that nobody was drunk they all have those same sort of answers but things do start to deviate a little bit when we start looking at the Brian Higgins timeline and the Brian Albert timeline and when they got back to the house Brian Albert Kevin Albert Eddie Hernandez and Brian Higgins all in New York City for a fallen officer's funeral they they all drove back together so you've got Brian Albert Kevin Albert Brian Higgins and Eddie Hernandez who's really not part of the story right but they're all driving back from New York City to Boston that's like a 4-Hour Drive I've done it before and that's a group of guys and they're going to be talking a lot of [ __ ] let's just be honest and Brian Higgins wants us to believe that he didn't bring up anything to do with Karen Reed that entire ride and in fact he never said anything at all to Brian Albert about Kevin about Karen Reed at all but he told his boss at work why is he telling his boss at work like is that his bestie or something or is it that he just feels a need to run his mouth and tell everybody what's going on everybody that is except for Brian Albert his good friend who he was in a car with for four hours I don't believe it I was wondering if they had considered maybe uh subpoenaing um Kevin Albert Eddie Hernandez and asking them to get on the stand and and see if they recall any of the conversation coming back from uh or going back up to Boston from New York City that night because they were talking stuff they've got to be talking stuff a group of guys like that cops you know they're talking [ __ ] and women didn't come up at all I don't buy it I don't buy it I don't believe it for a second the other thing I thought about is they were they left New York you know earlier on the earlier side four hours back up to Boston at some point that day on their way back up to Boston Chris Albert tells us during his testimony that John O'Keefe came into his pizza shop the DNA with his with his adopted son Patrick and ordered some pizza and to hear Chris Albert say it John asked him what he was up to what do you what do you doing tonight like let's hang out now we can't ask John unfortunately but this is what Chris Albert says and Chris says oh I work man that's you know I'm here all night um but maybe we can catch up why don't you give me telephone number Chris Albert never had Jon O'Keefe's telephone number until that day till that day even though he was his neighbor right even though he was his neighbor and he claims they were friendly okay so he got his phone number that day and he texted John O'Keefe the message you better come out or you better come out up here out here or I'm going to [ __ ] up your your lawn and I get it you can say that's a that's a humorous message it's one guy jabbing another guy cracking jokes but are they friendly like that are they really friendly like that I just didn't get the impression that they were maybe maybe you know but it's kind of interesting and it just makes me wonder if I don't know maybe Brian or Kevin Albert called their brother Chris Albert and said hey you know let's let's text John we want him to come out tonight we want we want to talk to him because of the whole Karen Reed issue it's just it's just a thought I mean I have no proof of that and could be totally wrong but it does start to pain a little bit of a picture particularly because Brian Higgins as much as he says he's good friends with Brian Albert do you know the night of that party or whatever you want to call it get together that johon O'Keefe ended up dying on the front lawn that was only the second time Brian Higgins had ever been to Brian Albert's house another coincidence Chris Albert gets John O'Keefe's Phone number for the first time that day and texts him that stupid message and then Brian Higgins who's never been to Brian Albert's house after a long ass day a funeral in New York City driving back four hours with a snowstorm coming doesn't go home goes to the hillside first which I don't know why Brian Albert didn't go home he decided to stay out with Brian Higgins apparently at the Hillside and then Brian Albert left before him weird but whatever and went to the waterfall and then Brian Albert decides to show up there and we'll listen to some of that testimony I think I have that section here but like how old is this guy and how long has he been up and driving and drinking and he still wants to go to the waterfall but even after that after the waterfall he want he wanted to go to Brian Albert's house after that that's a long day right that's a really long day in the meantime he's driving back and forth to the um to the Canton PD twice he did that night twice to switch out cars or whatever his [ __ ] was and then and then he even texted John O'Keefe that night texted John O'Keefe are you coming out here why are you texting him that that's a weird thing why are you asking him that at that late time doesn't sound right to me anyway let's get into this testimony when was that that was on Monday how long was that conversation I would say under an hour and a half in person or over the phone in person where was that conversation that was at the DA's office who else was there uh my attorney a victim witness Advocate I believe her name is Kristen Collins um Ada mlin Ada L and Lieutenant briyan telly from the mass State Police anybody taking notes I did not I don't know if anybody was taking notes well you were sting there watching did he take notes not that I saw no so you had an hour hour and a half long conversation with the prosecution team and a police officer witness and you're telling me that you did not see anybody taking a single note down is that right that's that's correct I was F I did hand something to Lieutenant Tully but he didn't take any notes in reference to what I handed him what you handed I handed him a piece of mail that I got at my residence uh anything having to do with this case oh I believe so uh was that turned over to Mr jow no I turned it over to State Police yes so so far his answers have been pretty straightforward you know he's getting hammered with a bunch of questions and he's answering pretty straightforward you know yes no this person that person didn't talk to that person didn't take any notes you know it it's pretty straightforward it seems truthful right that's what he sounds like when he's being truthful when he's being asked questions and he's being truthful let's just skip forward a little here the only thing I could be recalled showing was a photograph of the exterior of 34 fville Road in Canton what about the text messages that you just went over exens shown those I was shown a pile of papers and I was advised that those text messages were going to be they were put into another format so they were easier to read and these are the screen shots that you just described on the on the uh exhibit well as I said he he showed me the stack said they were the text messages they were in a different format but I'm assuming that's what they were um what was your assignment with the ATF back in 2022 I was assigned to the Bridgewater field office but I was full-time with United States Marshall Service uh do as a doing fugitive apprehension and where were you physically office how well I continue to maintain the office at Canton PD okay but to be clear you were a Federal Officer not a Canton police officer on some sort of a task force with Canton PD correct no I was not on a task force with Canton PD but you did have an office at Canton PD based on a personal relationship that you had with the chief correct he gave you this office as a courtesy is that right so if I can explain um yes or no was it provided as a courtesy well working partnership I would say and so you know again he's being very truthful it seems just answering matter of factly to the questions he does want to give an explanation as to why he has this office at Canton Police Department um even though apparently this is something that's not uncommon but I do find it interesting that he wants to give an explanation as to why he has that office there does he feel like you know because the Alberts did him a favor that makes you know makes him seem part of a conspiracy um you know Liars here's the card here uh one of the cards from the deception deck explanation Liars tend to offer explanations for why things happen revealing their insecurity and expectation of this belief in contrast honest individuals usually present facts straightforwardly like allowing the truth to stand on its own if a story includes superflous explanations it might be a sign of deception and again I'm not saying that he's being deceptive here but I am saying that when he wants to explain it's because he feels insecure about the fact that um he has this office at Kon PD and how that may appear to the jwelry right because they're alleging there's a conspiracy here and all these people know each other so it that's just an action that explanation it's not the motivation isn't necessarily to lie it's more or less because he doesn't want to be seen as being friends or in some kind of relationship with the Alberts you've been asked that specific question in a in a prior hearing correct yes in June of gonna SK this a little I think in the in the IT world it's probably called a proxy Cod that's what I know it's to be so you had both a physical office and full access to Kon PD all based on the friendship and relationship and convenience of well the friendship and relationship you had with Chief berit and the the convenience that he wanted to give you for having that office there correct no I wouldn't say full access I had access to certain areas within the department Well you certainly had access to and from your office yes Andress to the department yes could go in and out of the sallyport I could could you could go upstairs to uh to Chief bit's office yes you could go downstairs to the dispatch area this is on the first floor correct yes and then you could go out to the sally port into the sally port across that garage those two bay doors at your leisure well that would exclude the evidence room The Arms Room and places like that I didn't have access to those places but places that I just mentioned you didn't have access yes absolutely um You' had that office for what back in June uh back in January of 2022 probably had that office for more than what three years I would estimate probably sometime around 18 2018 2018 not 18 years 2018 no 2018 I'm sorry my maybe maybe CL four years yes okay um I want to turn your attention Mr Higgins to January 28 January 29 2022 uh by the way I should ask another foundational question are you currently uh still at ATF am I employed by ATF correct yes I am a special agent yes what is your current Billet or your assignment objection is that something you're free to discuss I'm assign to division operations at this time okay what does that mean that's you're taken out of the field was I taken out of the field yes are you no longer on the field jaction I move to strike he's answering question with a question and again we we talked about this one with the Jennifer mcab testimony and we see this a lot with the mccabes with the Alberts with Higgins um they they answer a question with a question now he knows that he's not going to be able to lie here right he can't fabricate a story here he if if the judge if there's no objection he's allowed to answer the or he's he's ordered to answer the question he can't fake it but he's still instinct ively asks a question to to that question like he basically just repeats it back right he did it a couple times there it's because he doesn't want to say that he's on desk Duty right he doesn't want the jury to know that so it's it's interesting again it's not it's not deception it's one of the cards in the deck though and it does kind of show you how people try to buy more time by doing things like that here's the card when someone Echoes your question or responds to an accusation with another question it can be a tactic to buy time for fabricating a deceptive answer also be cautious of questions that suggest a denial without explicitly stating on such as do you really think I did it this type of response often serves as a deflection avoiding a direct answer while appearing to address the accusation may be able to come back to this thank you your honor I want to turn your attention now to January 2829 um 2022 um you recall those dates I do you've been living with those dates for the last couple of years like a nightmare um John O'Keefe's body was found outside your friend Brian Albert's house on the morning of January 29th 2022 correct yes you you've previously testified that on January 28th uh you had gone to New York uh for this memorial service correct Funeral Service yes the funeral service not the memorial you separate the two so well the Wake would be the night before funeral it was I call them the services it wasn't a memorial memorial to me would be more of like an annual thing this was the services just want to be clear so you went with Brian Albert Kevin Albert and Eddie Hernandez is that right I traveled down there myself but I I I met up with them to go to the services yes um is it fair to say that you and Brian Albert and Kevin Albert sort of run in the same social and professional circles I mean without speaking for anybody else I think we know a lot of the same people go to some of the same holiday parties for instance yes uh go to some of the same events whether they're law enforcement events or otherwise retirement parties yes things like that u m meet up at a bar and have a social drink together yes have might share a meal together correct yes um and you would agree that you particularly are pretty well connected to the Canton law enforcement Community could you qualify that explain that you know quite a few cops right well it's a small department so I do know everybody in the building in some capacity okay so my question is you know so here we have minimizing right minimizing um I think it's minimizing qualifiers and again it's not that he's lying but you can see here that he's trying to sort of play down this relationship that he has with the Canton Police Department with other officers you know um in that area um with the Alberts um so he's trying to minimize that relationship it's called weakening modifiers phrases like kind of sort of and seem like indicate uncertainty whether they are used correctly by someone being honest or misleadingly by someone who is lying any statement following these phrases should not be automatically accepted as true or accurate so it's just one of those things where you just want to recognize his speech here um here's another one minimizing adverbs words such as just only simply merely often indicate an attempt at minimization Liars frequently use these terms to downplay incriminating details and context that one's probably more apt for this the minimizing of of this relationship here a few cops I do pretty good friends with maybe best friends with the chief of police former Chief of Police Kenny Burke whitz correct yes you know Brian Albert he's a Boston police officer yes you know his brother and work with his brother ATD correct yes uh so it's fair to say back to my original question your relatively well connected in the law enforcement Community the fabric of that community in Kenton is that right well I think that comes with working with people yes is that yes or no yes okay as a matter of fact you've even given um a personal toast at one of these events these retirement events Etc correct Chief arquit yes and during the course of that toast you been said if you want to hide a body Kenny Burt is your men correct I don't recall that you don't remember telling that joke in front of a room full of folks I don't if you want to hide a body Kitty burkwitz is your man I don't um you will agree that so he says I don't recall that so there's a difference between not saying something and not recalling saying something right so that was a weak denial he didn't actually deny it he just said he doesn't recall it so that could he could be uh being deceptive here right it's it's likely that uh I mean it sounds like a look people make that kind of joke a lot like oh I know who to call if I need to hide a body like you joke amongst friends or whatever knowing that that's not what you actually mean right it's just sort of a a dark humor type thing but in the context that we're all talking about especially with burkowitz retiring after the J O'Keefe situation does seem sort of incriminating right and asking him if he said that and him just saying no no I didn't say that would be much uh Stronger of a denial but him saying I don't recall that he's not denying it right there's no denial there um and so and the reason why I think he won't just say no I didn't say that is because they might find might pop up with a video somebody video recorded it of him saying it and now what's he going to do so you know it's just one of those things and that's one of the cards assessing denials be be really um you want to just really critique what the words are and recognize if it's an actual denial or if it's just a runaround and that was a Runar around some of your closest friends are some of the more powerful people in Canton in terms of politics and law enforcement right jaction ask at that same retirement dinner there were members of the DA's office correct yes a matter of fact the da Michael morrisy was there I believe he was at one point all right um and that was the same event that you gave either a keynote speech or some sort of a a speech for chief burkwitz his retirement is that right yes how long have you known Albert specifically I think I had some interaction with him when I was on the Cambridge Fire Department in my capacity and fire investigations and then I would say pretty much through my entire career at ATF you know I I came into contact with Brian give me a number of years well I've been with ATF now for 15 years I've probably known him at least that whole time you'd say that you have both a social and professional working relationship ship with him I would say yes he's a friend um frequently drink together we have drank together I wouldn't say frequently but yes we've we've drank together break bread together have meals together absolutely had lunch um as a matter of fact you were asked at a prior hearing uh whether or not you could put a number on the number of times that you've had drinks with Brian Albert you said somewhere around 50 something like that or under actually you said under 50 under 50 50 I think I might have said 30 um and that was in two years correct yes so not entire not under 50 in the entirety of your relationship 15 year relationship with Brian Albert literally in the prior two years when you gave your testimony in June of 2023 in those two years met up with him and had drinks under 50 times was that a question yes could you rephrase it sure is is it true that you so now he's now he's getting some you know buying time he this is a delay tactic because he wants to figure out how to minimize this relationship that he has with Brian Albert but you know the the problem is is that if he wants to minimize this relationship that he has with Brian Albert then why is he going over his house for his son's birthday at like 12:30 at night right so which is it you're good friends with Brian Albert you hang out and stuff you go to his son's birth to wish his son a happy birthday or is it you guys don't really hang out that much you once in a while you drink together which one is it testified answer quote I mean in two years I mean maybe under 50 in quote that was your testimony to how often you socialize with Bri right so we socialized more when we started I started working with his unit okay so my question is well I don't know the exact number but yes we socialized absolutely that's all I was getting okay that's fine I mean there's there's no there's no secrets here right my friend there's no secrets here really that's pretty interesting who said there were Secrets here did somebody ask you if there were Secrets here let me ask the questions I get it that's fine I get it um you also know Brian Albert well enough to know what his relationship with for instance the other guy that you traveled back to New York with Eddie Hernandez I do know Eddie Hernandez I actually know Eddie the longest out of everybody so you knew Eddie our officer Hernandez so you see how quickly though he answered that question you know yeah I do know Eddie Hernandez he's the one I know the longest like that's what he looks like when he's just answering a question without hedging it without you know delaying it without trying to frame it in a certain way that's him just being truthful I'm just going to skip ahead a little bit here because they they talk a little bit about Kevin Albert and Eddie Hernandez and that's not the part that I'm really interested in Brian Albert and his reputation were you not yes or no yes you indicated in that formal interview that even Chief burwitz a little afraid of Brian Albert all right so that is the objection sustained that's strick and I'll see you at C so this is when they're trying to get on the record that Brian Albert has this reputation both on the force and in general as sort of being a allegedly a bully type person and of course L doesn't want any of that to come in so they just always have to focus on Karen like can they just focus on somebody else you're also relatively close friends in addition to being close friends with Brian Albert you're Al also relatively close close friends with his brother Kevin correct I am Kevin Albert is a detective with Canton Police Department is that right yes and you've worked in the same physical office with him for a number of years physical building physical building it's a better way to put it's different is that right yes and it's fair to say that you've consulted with Kevin on certain of his cases I'm gonna rush through a little bit of this here Brian Albert had more drinks than you did when you had those three to four um Jameson and gingers to be honest with you I wasn't keeping track he left Hillside and you stayed correct for a short time yes you later changed your mind and ultimately decided to go to the waterfall you finished whatever you're eating or drinking you decided to go over the waterfall right yes because I'm always saying I'm going to show up and then I kind of do the Irish exit so I decided it was a long day it was an emotional day and I decided to join them drive so that was a scripted answer in my opinion that was a completely scripted answer like he was asked you ultimately decided to go to the waterfall correct and instead of just saying yes he comes up with this whole like story about yes it was a long day it was an emotional day I'm always giving them the Irish exit so you know I just decided this time I'm going to go see them wow okay you could have just said yes we don't need all the explanation and so again the explanation card talks about why people do these sort of things why would somebody just sit there and provide like all this like senseless explanation nobody cares why you decided to go there or do they do they care because it's odd that you decided to go there you're right it was a long emotional day and most people after they drink and it's a long day and it's emotional they're ready for bed but you decided to go to the waterfall and when you're asked about it you basically sound like a ninny he says explanation sorry Liars tend to offer explanations for why things happened revealing their insecurity and expectation of disbelief in contrast honest individuals present facts straightforwardly allowing the truth to stand on its own if a story includes superflous explanations it might be a sign of deception and I believe this is deception here and I believe that's not why he went to the waterfall I believe he went to the waterfall because he wanted to run into Karen Reed over there yes I did after having his four whiskies yes Brian Albert did he drive himself well I didn't see him I I dropped him off in uh Boston pbd District down there in charest toown and I'm assuming he drove back towards that way to meet me he wasn't with anybody else not that I know of so he was drinking at the hillside bar and then got in his car and drove over to the waterfall as well I didn't see him drive over but I assume that's what he did yes um you went to John O'Keefe's house I'm gonna shift gears for a second you went to John O'Keefe's house at some point to watch the Patriots game on January 16th right yes that was the time when you indicated that when you left Karen gave you a kiss goodbye correct yes um it's safe to say that that was not some hot passionate long kiss but you think it was more than just a friendly PE correct I wouldn't describe it as a PE I describe it as more than friends it was a kiss well you did describe it as a PE didn't you when when you texted Karen Reed and she said it was just a and then you texted back I agree figure of speech the truth right figure of speech after that incident it's safe to say we've just gone through a number of them it's interesting you know parsing words on that one is also interesting to me because you know it him like insisting that it was you know more than a PEC that it was like a passion say a romantic kiss right um Jackson's Trying to minimize it and he's trying to make it seem more you know like it was romantic what it really was who knows but it's an interesting thing to argue from his perspective because if you're going to argue that it was romantic right um then you have more of a motive to be upset about everything so what are you really arguing about here and then on top of it you know I mean I understand he's trying to frame her as the bad person she was the aggressor she came after him she gave him this passionate kiss or whatever it wasn't just a PE right and you know he I mean he I feel like he could have just I don't I'm not I don't think he's being deceptive here I just think it's just an interesting way to parse this out you know like it doesn't really help whether it was p a PEC or romantic and how he frames it you exchanged flirtatious texts with Miss re is that right is the incident you're referring to when she kissed me no I'm saying after that after that incident yes after the Patriots game okay yeah you exchanged flirtatious texts we did with Miss re I did um and was over the course of a few weeks couple of weeks but just nine days is that right so it was between the January 12th and I would say before the 28th because the 28th she didn't respond and the 29th she sent that last text that John died those weren't You' looked at the text right I have just looked at the last couple text I did the last text that she sent of any substance was January 23rd right well I I think the text I think the text on the 29th John died there's substance there okay I'm not suggesting I'm talking about after you said um well yeah 28 right the text of substance between the two of you talking between the two of you not the John di text that substance ended on the 23rd didn't it I'd have to I'd have to have the text in front of me to to agree with you I I think it's right here Mr Jackson right in front of the exhibits right there does anybody think he forgets that they she didn't text him back for five days after that I mean he told his boss his boss that they kissed okay he was probably asking his boss for some advice like this lady's making me crazy what does this mean thank you hey we are you directing me to the 23rd I'm directing you to the last page just look everything on it tell me that pre last substantive text about you and Karen before you're um yes it be the 23rd at 940 so it was n days of texting between the two correct I believe so yes um and aside from the a kiss goodbye you two never had any sort of physical contact with one another do you mean intimate when you say physical correct yes I'm talking about shaking her hand Mr Higgs well I just I want to answer your question truthfully I would like you to too you didn't have any physical intimate contact with no I did not there was no other hugs or kisses or certainly no sex no um and when she said I'm glad you came over tonight in one of those texts that you just read a few minutes ago she was referring to the Patriots game with John there big crowd there correct yes over the course of that week or so um Miss Reed did explain her feelings about her relationship with Mr o'keef correct text messages during the pendency of uh communication she she did Express yes and she indicated that uh there's a difference between being married to someone and dating someone Etc we saw those texts is that right yes uh she he just said during the pendency of our communication he's talking about her like she's a per I mean that's that's how he's framing this indicated that in terms of the situation in Aruba she was upset by that but it's not that big correct it was clear to me she was upset and she said I don't care too much about that other girl right well at least that's what she said in text yes that's what I'm asking you is that what she said in text Mr hiin it's not a trick question that's what she said in text right yeah he he tried to minimize there you know well at least that's what she said in text and that's that um minimizing uh what is it weak weakening modifier or minimizing adverb because he wanted it to seem like she was like wildly jealous about this whole episode in Aruba which by the way I guess a Jor was interviewed and said that they they really didn't feel like the Aruba thing had anything to do with anything and and I have to agree with it I mean that was just anyway he's trying to make make it sound like she was upset and he goes well at least that's what she said in text that's what she said so you know why are you qualifying it because you want to make her look worse she said something along the lines of uh I'm just trying to be realistic there's cracks in the relationship it's far from perfect is that right I think that's something she texted all right and you'll agree that during the course of these texts you were constantly asking for clarity and explanation were you not during our communication I did ask for Clarity many times yes you saw it correct yes and she pretty much wouldn't answer you correct she was non- committal I would say which is why you were saying in your texts why won't you answer the question and she would parry and not answer that one either correct well I didn't want to be stuck in the middle of anything that's not my question I'm asking you whether or not she would answer your question about Clarity specifically she avoided she avoided questions about text right and that was frustrating because you were very interested in her romantically at that point correct I was attracted to her I don't know that I would say very interested in her you texted things like why did you get my number out that's a quote from the text we just read correct I did ask that yes you said now what is that right yes you texted so now what correct yes texted I would hang out meaning with you yes correct you were showing interest in her yes you're showing romantic interest in her I wouldn't say it was romantic I was trying to vet it out well you weren't trying oh my God he's so now and more of the minimizing again right he's saying it wasn't romantic he was trying to vet it out like like he's trying to like make sure that you know her intentions are pure and his his urgency about clarifying things and now what and now what wasn't cuz he was excited that she liked him right so you have to decide is that true or false right I have a feeling that he really liked her and he was very anxious to find out you know can they hang out and let's let's make this more of a solid case he keeps trying to make it out to be like he was sussing it out he said or vetting her you weren't see if she wanted to go see game right not really no no you were showing romantic interest in her weren't you I was trying to vet out what is was her interest in me legitimate it was very normal for me to have that question in my mind when I didn't initiate this she did and I think it was a fair question just to try to find out right but most guys most guys who aren't like hot on the trail of some ass are just gonna keep more laid back about it and and find out what happens next they're not going to bug this [ __ ] out of the girl and keep saying what now what's next what does this mean I want the real deal what do you want what do you think especially especially when that woman is your friend's girlfriend so no you're this guy I have no respect for for that for him going after his friend's girlfriend even if she initiated it which I don't like that she did that either I I that makes me lose respect for her as well but him that was that was his friend's girlfriend and you he's trying to make it out like yeah I just vet people out I don't trust girls so I try to like screen them out dude if that's the way you felt you would have just chilled the heck out you would have just been laid back waiting for her to continue to text you and see what happened no you were anxious to get the ball on the road you wanted to go you wanted this to happen you were showing romantic interest in K Reed aren't you I was interested but I don't think I was at the Romantic phase okay when I say romantic well what do you mean by romantic what's the Romantic phase sending somebody flowers oh my gosh oh my gosh so romantic phase for him equals sending someone flowers okay that's what romantic means to him well there's a difference between dating and hanging out I mean it's kind of hard to date somebody when you have a boyfriend Mr hi even here he's getting emotional and irritated about it you know it's hard to date someone when you have a boyfriend again with the with the digs on on Karen for coming after him and I agree I agree it was it was a messed up thing that she did and I think it was really just out of sort of a retaliation towards John because maybe she was wasn't getting the attention or the gratitude that that she should have gotten I don't know what their relationship was like but it it sounds like things weren't so great towards the end but regardless this guy this guy definitely had an interest in her and watching him try to act like he did and it's just well I think I asked that question too that's not my question my question is you seem to have a problem admitting that you had a romantic interest in my client is there a reason for that I was attracted to her right physically attracted I thought she was an attractive woman romantically attracted I'm not gonna go there no I don't I don't agree with that of course you're not going to go there because that would put you in a very awkward position wouldn't it so J not at all so that the objection sustained is to the form you can ask it differently and that answer will be stricken now I'm sorry yes you were sexually attracted to her I was physically attracted to her yes sexually attracted to her was my question well I think in the text I said you're hot okay so my question again Mr hi you seem not to answer my question my question is were you or were you not sexually attracted to my yes okay um you were think saying things like uh what do you want from me and I want the real deal those are your words correct yes and the real deal with you would be to date her to get involved with her romantic correct no the real deal was what what did you mean by I want the real deal like a relationship so he he just completely contradicts himself there what do you want I want the real deal so you wanted a real deal with her no well what's that mean to you a relationship I mean come on kind a relationship a buddy buddy relationship you just want to go like the the same thing everybody wants a a real relationship ran relation it's possible and she was answering with things like when you said now what she answered I don't know correct yes she did when you asked so now what what she answered I'm sorry when you said so now what she answered now what what correct well I don't have it in front of me so I I I can't agree with you if you if I'd like to see what you're referring to well you just read it about 10 minutes ago would you would you quarrel if I know but this but you're you're you're giving me portions of it you were given portions of it by Mr L as well okay right did you text something like now what and she responded something like now what what I think on one occasion she did yes okay um and you remember you just read a text where she texted I'm sorry you texted what do you want from me and her responsive text was I don't know correct I think that was one of the texts again with this theme of her being non-committal one way or the other is that right well I don't that's not how I would interpret it as a theme no well didn't you just say she was non-committal that was your word not mine I did but as I told you it's been a process of trying to sus it out and see what this was all about right so when you were susing it out determining whether or not you were going to advance this romantic interest s of non-com well not one person advances it I think that's a that's a joint thing this guy is just like so persistent in his desire to minimize this interest that he had in Karen Reed and I think that he's being deceptive with these answers and really doing a poor job it in my opinion because if you read all the texts and you recognize that he told his boss about her then he was clearly interested when you texted you want the real deal she responded it doesn't exist didn't she she did yes o That's for at all and she never once in any of those texts expressed anger or hatred for joh correct no not at all of fact she texted more she indicated more of frustration with the immediate family the kids she didn't want to have kids in its totality I would say yes um and then on January 23rd as you just saw she just stopped communicating with you altogether correct until the 29th yes do you know what the term ghosted means I think I brutal she sort of ghosted you didn't she I wouldn't agree with that that was frustrating to you that is so brutal oh my God that was so brutal but it's true right and you know her last TX was like phone goes both ways you know and then he asked her a question and she didn't resp respond like she was done she was done playing like whatever it was that she was doing she was done with it John had found out you know and she probably talked to John about it and he sorted it out that's their business but you know this guy can't just say yeah she ghosted me and you know he his feeling you know he he was butt hurt over that like come on like that was such a huge he got all pumped up and excited and then it was just this huge let down it was a blow if you've ever been in a situation like that then you know how it feels when somebody does that to you when they kind of lead you on and you're excited because you're like wow this person's amazing right this person's amazing and you're getting all pumped up because it seems like they're interested and all this other stuff and then boom they just disappear they just drop you think about how that feels I mean it's happened to me right I I think it's happened to a lot of people and it's such a crushing blow to Your Ego right on top of which you know if you have any kind of relationship issues it's it's anxiety provoking right when someone does that and so you definitely have your feelings you feel a certain way and so you I don't believe that this guy didn't have a conversation with Brian Albert and Kevin Albert and you know Eddie Hernandez being there too and on a 4-Hour drive back and then you know some sort of plan being made to like meet up so he can see her later and and face her you know because otherwise how how's he gonna do it she's not answering his text and he's not gonna keep acting like a puppy dog so she just stopped communicating wasn't it no not at all you had been moving through this mindset of exploring a romantic interest with a beautiful woman thought was interested in you like that done right no what did you have with her after January 23rd well she texted me on January 29th keep saying he keeps saying she texted me on January 29th you hold on to that bro you hold on to that brother she texted me on January 29th yeah to let you know that her boyfriend died that John died that's the only only reason why she texted you and you texted her the night before with uh well which is the same thing you said to her in one of the other texts when she didn't answer you quickly enough because you're so damn needy you were like um hello yeah that's your M Mo that's what you say when you want someone to pay attention to youting January 29th was her informing you that a tragedy had occurred joh had died I'm about that so I I don't want to keep playing games all right so that's what that's what we talked about no more of after the 23rd or up to the 23rd she had been texting back and forth with you pretty regularly just saw it correct she also sent me a text with arrow saying the phone works both ways and as of the 23rd and that is hilarious to me that he brought that up because that clearly bothered him and that is such that to me that just shows a personality type because you know he he was like I haven't heard from you or whatever and she smartly comes back with phone works both ways pal like you haven't heard from me I haven't heard from you so so what right and the fact that he's using that as some sort of rebuttal just shows how butt hurt he was over the way she treated him the fact that she called him out on the fact that the phone cuz the phone guess what the phone does work both ways she stopped didn't the texts were sporadic over those nine days I don't know if they would have stopped or they would have kept going well they didn't keep going did they well John passed away you know they didn't keep going because okay well that's interesting there too they didn't keep going right and he and then he says well John passed away I feel like uh that's kind of interesting because um the fact that John passed away is coming into his mind as a reason why the text changed right so that was just an interesting comment from him there 23d on the 24th all the way to 29th she never text right I believe so she didn't respond to any of he he didn't say well she killed John right he didn't say that or she well she ran over John he didn't say that did he no he just said well John passed away well she didn't respond to the text on the 28th Friday all right why don't we take our lunch and I'm going to ask jury to do so there's uh there's more with Higgins there's a lot more that I'd like to go over but this is already an hour long and if anybody watched this I really appreciate it I think this stuff is fascinating parsing out their words sort of looking at the language um I think there were some good examples here but there's there's more examples with Higgins um and I definitely want to do a part two for Brian Higgins if anybody else if you guys watch this even if one person says they want it I'll do it okay so um and I'll keep moving through these people because there's quite it's really interesting to go back like I said and look at this testimony now and sort of be who's being deceptive and in what way um and I the part two of Higgins will be the part where he um goes back towards the uh when he goes back to the Albert's house because there's some interesting stuff there all right guys well thanks for joining me it was fun let's just uh let's hear some music on the way out right this song is so good all right arrang don't from 100 SS 100 weeks didn't change it experiments development intelligence and patience I'll do it all again cuz I never feel complacent let's keep the Good Vibes positivity is contagious I'm never looking back cuz I made a life this passionate a college graduate suppressing all his talents yet he found a way to go and change become an advocate for taking control of your life go out in battle and you think you have a dream then act on it get after it get out your head and [ __ ] capture it you got one life to master it don't give up on your future we all start losers we're all late bloomers got to strugle through what you say yeah I'mma do [ __ ] my way so you can go kick rocks I'm a stack breaks I build what I want to make cuz I don't give a [ __ ] what you say yeah I'mma do [ __ ] my way so you can go kick rocks I'm a stack breaks up build what I want to yeah I'm do it my way [Music] bye guys have a good night