welcome in episode 343 of the source to State podcast your goto Kentucky basketball and recruiting podcast on the growing ksr podcast Network I'm your host radio very excited to be joined by Frederick Douglas's own Sean Smith how you doing buddy did you say 343 I I my brain kind of broke as I was saying that cuz I was like damn that's a lot of freaking shows I didn't realize that we've done that many but I know that you do that every episode but I think that's the first time that it's actually hit me that we're 343 episodes in like man that number's starting to starting to really climb that means we're old Sean that means we're getting old we're washed the the Young The Young pubs are starting to nip at our heels and before long we're going to be taken over by the the next generation of sources say 2.0 whoever whoever that may be and I'm rocking a party like it's 1996 shirt today I know you and I have these matching te's and I think this may I was telling you this may be the first time that I've wore like UK apparel on this show but then oddly enough the one time that I did I wore a Mart Pope Jersey how Wild is that little did you know buddy little did you know that our worlds were gonna be flipped upside down how long ago was that October when I wore that so like it's not like it was too long ago like it was here in our uh it was actually the episode where we talked about Kentucky and Indiana series coming back and here I am rocking to Mark Pope Jersey and I had no idea that so why did you stop you now have a reason to wear it every single show and you've just decided to up and stop I I feel like I feel like this is a missed opportunity although I love I love the party like it's 1996 shirt Goose teas they do just an absolutely phenomenal job but come on man if you if you if you own a mark Pope Jersey you gotta you got to be able to rock it when else are you going to casually wear a mark Pope Jersey yeah you got a good point guess there's not many other opportunities to really wear it I'll I'll pull it back out there we go we looking forward to it so uh it's been uh a freaking Whirlwind man um Lots going on in my life personally had a a really significant loss in in my family that uh really really tore me up and kind of put me out of commission there for a minute still still really struggling but um so apologize for kind of starting the show as late as we did um but there's still a lot to talk about I was at peach jam this past weekend um obviously following Mark Pope and his staff around everywhere they went like lost puppies like we uh talked to Cody Fe fager about last week that that's kind of our role now is just kind of get the lay of the land figure out who they're watching who they like who they don't like guys that they're kind of monitoring keeping track of before really deciding whether or not to go all in or out on them uh so that's what my job was this past weekend with with peach jam I think we got a lot of clarity on some of their top targets guys that they're kind of swinging for the fences for maybe uh that they're not totally pursuing as hard as maybe some fans would hope I think there there's just a lot to come out of peach jam just the whole recruiting cycle I mean it was ridiculous Sean so we get there Thursday afternoon late afternoon um coaches are allowed to arrive D starting at 6 o'clock on Friday and as soon as the doors open it's Cody fager and Jason Hart there for the first run of games um that night so you kind of just Loosely think in your head all right well you know Cody and Jason are gonna be here Alvin Brooks and Mark Pope probably going to be at Adidas tonight maybe they cut the trips in half Brooks and Pope are at Adidas to start with and then finish at peach jam and then Cody fager and Jason Hart flip to go to Adidas a lot of coaches do that they go to mple events every weekend um but usually kind of get the lay of the land wherever they are and then kind of transfer later so Pope starts at Adidas uh Thursday Friday at six o'clock on the dot and then there's reports of him Landing in Indianapolis to go see Puma up uh with the next 16 pro circuit so you go okay well that's kind of bizarre so I guess he just wanted to check a box with Malachi and some of those guys uh and then go you know get chrak and some of those other guys up up at uh um at Puma okay cool sounds good and then I walk in on Saturday early bright and early uh morning at 8 o'clock in the8 o'clock and Mark Pope is sitting there Courtside with a coffee in his hand I'm like so Mark Pope has been three different stops in approximately 14 hours is so you know how this what this looks like you just on the UAA circuit uh you know that coaches move they they travel a lot but I've never seen anything like that like there's some people that were like oh you're just hyperbolizing you know a coach because he works hard it's not that big of a deal that a coach is working working hard well hey it's a little different than what we're used to around here be that's going above and beyond to go to three different events over the course of a 14 hour period and then stay the rest of the time at peach jam and just I mean soak it all in the note that I mean just so meticulous in the note taking and um bouncing around from gym to gy to gym kind of dividing and conquering with Jason Hart there it it was really really wild to see um I know it's what you would like to see as a Kentucky fan Sean senior head coach kind of grinding the way that he is yeah absolutely and I it is a grind and the details that go into those weekends too Jack like getting from airport rental car to facility back to hotel you're making phone calls and taking phone calls during that time too you I mean I I can tell you how many coaches that I talked to last week in UAA phone calls that I had and I had one with a D1 assistant till like 12:30 one night so you know Pope is making phone calls as well so there's a lot that goes into it the the bouncing from City to city and then getting back to to to other cities and things like you you have guys on your staff that that you can kind of Branch out and send one or two here but it means a lot when the head coach is present and I think that you're seeing a guy that's going to put in the work it's a lot but it's going to pay off you're trying to put and establish your footprint on what this brand is now Jack and that's why it was so important like to get off to a good start of kind of showc showing your face and showing your staff and having your UK gear on like now it's not to look and see Mark Pope and his staff in UK gear it's not as weird to see John caliper and his staff in Arkansas gear at first it was really weird now it's normal but you're seeing a guy that's willing to put in the grind and do it and uh I was following it even though I wasn't at Peach GM I was last year this year like you said I was with UAA and and coaching on that circuit but I was following you and all the updates you put out and it's uh that's a staff that's really putting in the work and they they did an excellent job covering that that event we just G to gloss over your UAA record this over the past week come come on man like you you deserve to Pat yourself on the back for how things unfolded fell a little short shut up I now know what it's like lose in the final four okay so no I mean uh it was a good run it was a really really good run with a lot of really good kids and obviously we'll get into you know UK and stuff but just like i' I've got D1 kids on that group that I have with with Griffin and a lot of kids are going to play college basketball if we wouldn't have had to me if we wouldn't have had an an a rolled ankle or to our six9ine big we probably had a chance to be playing in the finals of that thing but we won 22 straight games hadn't lost since May 5th won 34 games overall I lost three on the under aror R circuit like pretty good and here's the cool thing about it every single kid is homegrown from Kentucky really cool had D1 assistance from James madis in other schools sitting there Courtside Saturday and Sunday watching us pretty cool thing for some instate kids yeah it's awesome you crush it we're proud of you over here um remember it's it's it's written in your source of say contract that wherever you land at the next level you're you're you're stuck with us so too too bad so sad you're you're not going anywhere you can be the head maybe maybe I'll land at UK you never know like who knows it's going to be a heck of a conflict of interest but hey I I'm happy to have that conversation with Pope if that day comes sorry man you're you're you're you're stuck with us so Le let's talk about some of the just kind of big picture things that I learned you know talking to different people parents coaches you know aaou programs just just uh throughout the weekend um just kind of how Kentucky operates guys that Kentucky is in deep on guys that uh they're kind of maybe trending away from um you learn a lot and I think one of the biggest picture takeaway Sean is that these high school kids are just point blank period asking for an arm in a leg that it it's gotten to the point where the value in college basketball the last couple Cycles has been in the transfer portal where you can get you know grad transfers fifth year guys fourth year guys um for expensive that mean they they come at a premium but you know exactly what you're getting you can get an All-American caliber player for a million bucks some Loosely just kind of think of that in your mind and then you talk to different guys that handle some of these recruitments with top 10 top 20 top 30 top 40 kids uh in the numbers that you hear associated with these kids and what they're a you know kind of running asking prices uh it kind of blew my mind like kids that I personally don't think are ready to make an impact at the highest of high levels at the Collegiate level asking for what an All-American made this cycle like I mean what guys that are all-americans that decided to return to college basketball this season for nil purposes instead of going to the draft these kids that are 17 years old not just AJ Deans like if he asked for it obviously that's that's something you expect but some of the guys further down the list the the numbers associated with them are just like all right man um so it kind of got back to me through various outlets and and different you know different sources about um that Kentucky it's gotten back to Kentucky and they've noticed and they've had some of these conversations where they kind of have to have those conversations internally about you know is this really what we want to do like do we really want to be pursuing some of these guys and fronting the money that it's going to cost to pay for them like are they really good enough like yes it's a really good class with some unbelievable top in talent in 2025 and Beyond but like are we going to sacrifice Financial flexibility with getting guarantees in the portal for guys that we like but maybe not love so that was a theme that popped up I mean four or five different conversations I had with guys that like yeah they they they like a lot of them but man the ones they love are going to cost I mean a lot a lot a lot a lot of money so you as a coach you kind of understanding that how would you approach the high school class and and how Pope should kind of operate with with money management and saying okay what is the the re what's the biggest bang for your buck that you can get when you're trying to assemble a roster in today's college basketball world it's tough and it's different for every program right like and and this this is the one thing that I think has benefited me the most from actually getting into side and coaching on a circuit and and getting involved and talking to so many coaches around the country it's different depending on what program you're at your budget's different right but at Kentucky we know that budget shouldn't be an issue you should have money there on the basketball side for sure when it comes to your nil funds and and everything that you have to do but but to me Jack I think I think Cody figer said it last week when he was talking about how they're wanting to do and it's something me and you kind of speculated about all spring and summer is what they're blueprint was going to look like in recruiting is it going to be going all in on top 20 players like it has been here that's not going to be the case anymore and I don't think it's going to be able to be the case for a lot of schools anymore I think you're going to see some distribution here with with some guys going here because money is going to be available that maybe's not available at this school so to me at Kentucky and it could be different depending on what class we're talking about like you and I knew a year ago at peach jam that these classes coming up were going to be some of the most most coveted players because the talent is unbelievable at the top like the difference at the top now had you taken those guys and put them in this class that just went through college basketball Jack a lot of guys would have been pushed out much lower you still would have had your Reed Shepards but it would have changed the dynamic of what we're talking about with the way the freshman class was across the country so to me you got to be able to identify who are your who are your top two and how much money are you willing to have on the table for those top two guys and and this is where I think nil for me when it was first being introduced I think I misinterpreted how it was going to be played out like I I think I thought that everybody was going to get to campus and then it was up to how good they were that they were going to kind of Market themselves and have opportunities but no you're you're having to talk nil before you even get this kid on campus I didn't see that coming I think college coaches that I talked to I talked to a few when I was in Atlanta a couple weeks again a weekends ago they're like man you do this and you talk to this kid for a while but they don't even want to talk to you if you've not even threw out an nil number like they don't even have a conversation with you it's not about what can you give me on the floor and this is not even guys that are in the top 50 Jack these are guys that are maybe even outside the top 100 it's all been a it's all become a where can I make the most money right now and it's not as much about what the next step is it's what can I do here is that the case for guys in the top half that we know are going to be top 10 draft picks I don't know but if I'm Pope I'm G to trust my evaluations that's what he's been so good at as a coach I think this staff is pieced together to evaluate and and maybe get some some Diamonds in the Rough find those hidden gems the evaluation tool is going to be the most important and critical piece to what Kentucky does as a roster moving forward in my opinion they're going to evaluate and find guys that fit it's going to look different maybe you're not going to have number one number two recruiting classes anymore maybe you settle for number five number six number seven but the evaluation and being able to retain those are to me those are the more important areas than what Kentucky does at the top of Ni yeah still gotta do it right like you still gotta dip your toe in it if you don't you're going to get left behind at that part and that's where some tough conversations are going to have to be had because there are some guys that you know fans love and and you know cross the board like it's a really tough pill to swallow I mean look at look at a guy like AJ Deans that that's where the conversation starts because he is going to be an an nil driven the the reason why B Buu is even the reason why AJ knows what who BYU is where BYU is and who the head coaches because of nil like make no mistake about it he didn't grow up dreaming of go playing college basketball in Provo he grew up dreaming of making a ton of money at the Collegiate level and becoming a superstar and route to being number one pick like let's call it spade a spade here the reason why why BYU is rumored as such a realistic option for him and SMU and some of these other programs that you wouldn't expect to be associated with the number one recruit in the country is because of money the number thrown around at peach jam with with AJ is upward of $3 million so when you think of that and we talked about that just kind of like what do you think that number is going to be just long term that's the kind of one that coaches interested in are kind of looking at and going man that kick can play he's a generational Superstar but $3 million is 50% of our recruiting budget for a good nil program like is it worth it to be able to be really really limited elsewhere and AJ is going to want to play with talented guys so if you put another Superstar next to him that costs one five or one couple that cost one then you're gonna be kind of loading up the back end of your roster with scrubs so it just kind of creates this Dynamic of what is important if you are Mark Pope if you are do is that something you pursue and I think for the Optics you kind of have to at least be in the race you gotta you got to get a visit you gotta prove that like hey this is a blue chip kid we're in on blue chip kid because we're a blue chip program like you got to be able to do that but like is it making make or break for Pope to be able to land AJ dians I don't think so it's kind of like the the the Jaden quaintance recruitment where it was just so money heavy that like would it have been that big of a statement for for Pope to land quaints in this cycle I mean no because all it took was you know hitting the right dollar figure and and meeting some of the the personal requests on on their side and like that would have been an easy get but it also you know that's the the problem that they have to deal with and how they juggle what is important to them so you're right that's that's why it is so freaking crucial for them to nail the evaluation part of this and that's why you know you hear really really positive momentum with guys like brillan Mullins who plays with Malachi Morena who UK is also trending really really heavily on right now guys that aren't necessarily top five top 10 recruits but guys that they feel are fits for this program they're pursuing both of them really really heavily and doing you know you talk to opposing coaches that are recruiting them both and saying we're trying but I think that I think that Kentucky is the favorite for for both of those guys right now so they got to pick and choose they got to they got to hit hit that right because is with the cost being what it is you can't miss because it that could really screw you over with roster management if you're spend a ton of money on a guy who's not worth it well that's that's what I was about to say because let's let's go back and not going to name up not gonna bring up individual names here there have been guys at Kentucky that have underperformed based off of what they were it happens every single year if you put a lot of money in those guys and they don't perform it's you're you're making an investment that's not investing back and that's the danger you take that's where evaluation is so important now AJ Deans that that's to me that's a guy that I don't think that he there's I have no concerns that he's not going to be great regardless of where he ends up a superstar a guarantee yes that's a clearcut you know what you're getting there but you this is kind of turned into you know an NBA locker room or professional locker room right where not everybody makes the same amount same same amount of money guys are on a certain contract and making this this money this this guy maybe he your veteran minimum I mean you've you've got to kind of distribute it throughout your roster and I think this is the thing that's making it difficult for a lot of coaches in a lot of colleges that's why you're seeing mid- major programs now not even recruit high school basketball you're seeing them live off the transport portal there's not like I coached 15 you there wasn't a lot of college coaches sitting at my games even though I've got D1 kids because they're thinking that kid's 15 years old going to be 16 I probably don't even have to worry about recruiting them until they're 20 and it's hurting some kids like it's it's making kids go D2 or go to lower levels because they're just not getting the opportunity so when you're at a place like Kentucky yeah you don't have to worry about that so on that note I was sitting talking to a blue blood assistant watching a 16u game and I said so like do you go into this weekend saying I gotta hit 70% 6 65 70% of my games with 17u you know 15 to 20% of my games with 16 U and maybe a game or two watching 15s like what how do you approach with a SK your schedule how do you kind of navigate who you watch when watch them do you load up on 17 use to begin with and then toward the end of the weekend hit 15s whenever you can like what what is your process and he was like 90 90% of my games are 17 use the only reason why I even hit 16s is is usually because I have you know a family connection with one guy or a um you know th this kid grew up in the state that our school is in and and I have to for Optics be be sitting here right now I I have no interest in actually recruiting this kid right now saying you're a must have for our class they are only there for the Optics of well it would you you can't not be there so it was really eye open again like I'm talking about 15s it was like unless unless this kid said I grew up dreaming of playing for my school I can't do it and he he grew up in the town that you're live you know like in Jasper's case when he was a 15U player for Kentucky back then like it makes sense to go watch that kid's game but for anybody else it's just a non-starter because as you said the chances of two three years from now that kid mattering in the grand scheme of things with what your recruiting plan is for portal and financial flexibility and all that stuff it it's it's not going to really matter so it's just a different game man it it just it just is every conversation starts and stops with with nil and I think it it is a turn off for some coaches I'm really fascinated to see how Pope navigates this because I don't think that he's gonna you know we already knew he he he he talked pretty openly about it where he's gonna land Blue Chip you know McDonald's All-American talent but you know he he values retention Cody fager was on our show last week and said that values retention values long-term experience you know building from within that's typically not going to be a topend top five top 10 recruit so I I wouldn't be shocked Sean if moving forward it's going to be a three to four High School guy class year after year after year and loading up the core of the roster with only experience go get the guys that you have to get go get guys that you think are Diamonds in the Rough where you have a really good eye for talent and kind of nail the evaluation on them and say man there's something about this kid screaming at me we can get him at a good bargain we can develop him over the course of a couple years and he's goingon to be a superstar for us that's going to be the future of recruiting I think it is and I just don't see this staff taking someone that they don't think fits like in the past I feel like that there were guys on this roster at times because they needed to fill scholarships like going into last summer when they didn't have many dudes I thought Kentucky was kind of scrambling just to make do and get some pieces there have been guys over the last six seven eight years that I thought didn't fit this program and I think we all knew it from day one that they didn't fit and then it turned out that they they didn't and then they leave will that still happen naturally yes you will have guys leave your program regardless if you're Kentucky you're Duke you're Kansas you're day and it don't matter where you're at people are going to leave people are going to leave because they think opportunities are better for them elsewhere they're going to hit the portal like that's a normal thing that happens in college basketball but for the most part I think that this staff is going to pass the evaluation test with a lot of guys I think they're going to be picky with what they want I don't think they're ever going to get caught caught up in those pamphlets that tell me so and so is ranked number three in the country because number three in the number three in the country on the sheet might not be number three in your in what you need at your program you may go down the list and find number 26 who does a and C that becomes a top five player in your program at Kentucky and in your system that's why I trust these guys to evaluate and and I know we're in a we're kind of in a territory here where we're maybe one foot in one foot out when it comes to what is going on because we've not seen them land anything via High School you want to see them land somebody to kind of get an idea of what they're going to be able to do on the recruiting Trail I mean I know getting Trent to flip from South Carolina Kentucky wasn't difficult like that was that wasn't a hard one now things start to get to a point to where you just don't know there's unknown who is that first guy that Kentucky gets if they don't get Jasper Johnson I'm going to say this I'm not crushing the staff for it like those relationships were have been built with Jasper long before Mark Pope got to Kentucky Mark Pope has had what two months to try to get on that I'm not necessarily looking at 25 as much as I am 26 now they need to figure some things out in 25 and kind of get some guys that they want that fit but those relationships that are being built this summer you've got staffs that have been building those relationships for over a year where you just starting to now get your footprint in there with them 26 is where I'm starting to look at so you may still have to take more portal guys jack a year from now I I don't know what it's going to look like but I am interested to see who the first commitment is and because they they need to get something relatively soon I think going into the to the fall they need to have something on paper to me with that I think that'll ease the fans mind when they kind of get an idea okay who did you beat for this kid what is the the message coming out of this like there's just a lot of unknowns right now with this yeah so let let's just dive right into the order of operations because Jasper Johnson is going to be next up he's gonna be first up um and we'll see what happens with him um he just announced his list cut he's down to five schools um it's going to be Alabama UNCC or Kentucky I I would be absolutely floored if it was either of Arkansas or Louisville um col of spade of spade I I do think that Alabama and UNCC hold a slight Edge over Kentucky right now and I think a big part of it is just the long-standing relationships that they've had talking to people around Jasper I mean they are Relentless they they're calling every single day to just going to the ends of the Earth to try to land this kid with you know if it's a financial ask they're hitting it if it's a you know in terms of role in terms of like what what they're looking for not being guaranteed certain minutes or shots but s you know painting The Vision with like a tangible s sample size of like hey guys of your archetype guys that that are like similar to you here's how they've been used in the past here are some of the flaws in your game here are some of the things we don't like about it here are guys in the past that have had similar issues and here's how we fix them to catapult them into stardom super stardom that's what we're going to do with you both of those coaches Hubert Davis and Nate oats have just done an unbelievable job with Jasper and saying what do you need we're we're gonna make this happen so they love Mark Pope they think that Kentucky is a potential good fit for him but the it the the whole my kids not an experiment thing is is a really real thing that I think is something that just to keep in mind that you know trusting a vision is a whole lot different than trusting like actual tangible results um and that's something that Pope is having to work through with some with with a lot of guys um I don't think ky's out I think that they're a phone call away from being right back in it and I think that Kentucky plans on being right in the thick of things um it's my understanding beginning of August the school schools involved are going to be put submitting their kind of like hey here's here's here's our offer here's what the vision is kind of just the the final pitch they're going to take all those final pitches and use the next couple weeks after that uh before making a decision at the end of August I think that third week of August is is the loose timeline right now for for them pretty firm tight timeline actually uh and we're going to know where Jasper Johnson is going going into September we'll we'll see I think it's really tight right now I I'm I'm fascinated to see how they operate knowing that he is a five-star kid that is you know comes with a five-star cost and and how they navigate that with some of their other guard prospects um and going through some of those other things that we've talked about you know in terms of getting the most bang for your buck with the system things like that it's just very very complicated um Kentucky still thinks that they're right in it but the other schools involved are kind of recruiting against one another at this point Alabama and UNCC they think that Kentucky is third so it's complicated very very complicated Sean well and someone in the comments was talking that they love how we're selling mediocrity I'm not selling anything the only thing I've been trying to sell is patience because there are unknowns to this Jack like if it's really hard to firmly establish your blueprint when you haven't coached a game yet it's not as difficult to sell it to fifth year guys because those fifth year guys how many of these guys that Kentucky have on the roster this is not a bad comment because how many of those guys are going to be drafted in the NBA draft a year from now it's a different sell it's a different pitch those guys have played college basketball they're looking for a stylistic fit they saw it on tape these kidss that are 16 17 18 years old coming to college basketball they're going to need to see something about what Kentucky is under Mark Pope how what does this program look like what's the atmosphere like at rep Arena are they beating the Dukes are they beating the Kansas are guys getting drafted like what does that look like like there's still pieces that are missing that Tom is just not on Kentucky side at the moment it will be here in a couple of months when they get into the season what's Big Blue Madness look like what are these things like what how are you marketing your program right now you're in a holding pattern because there's not much to sell other than your vision well when you put when you put eyes with the vision and you see it it's a little bit easier to go into 26 or even into the back end of 25 to me it's about if you can pull Jasper here or someone soon in August it would be great because then you can kind of start to sell what it can look like if not I'm okay with guys holding off and not making decisions until later when it comes to letting Kentucky kind of establish itself on the recruiting Trail getting some game film seeing how these transfers do there's still so many moving Parts this Jack that I yes the wheels are off the ground in Lexington but it's still doing this there's no reason to panic because it's not doing this it's not nose diving it's still climbing like we even leveled out yet like be patient that's the only thing I'm selling is patience not mediocrity I'm selling patience because I'm trying to get people to to see it that there's still a lot of parts that have to play out before we really truly know what it can look like and you have to pay a premium for the unknown right now like you Kentucky in the this portal cycle had to overpay for some guys because they were kind of taking a chance on Kentucky in this Vision like again these guys like Pope they love Pope Pope is awesome they they love the program they love the facilities they love all of this stuff but it's still an unknown and that is the one thing that that it just kind of creates this gap of all right I'm listening but man you got to really make it worth my while let's let's kind of put your money where your mouth is and and show how much you need me to kind of create this vision for for the Next Generation you know it it is kind of a once once recruits get the best thing that could happen for Pope is they he Paints the vision things go really really well in year one they go on a run so that 2026 class you get you know say you get brillan Mullins and Malachi Moreno in this early early signing period say you land both of them and the season is the success that you plan and hope it to be and then in the spring some of the bigger tier fish that go oh man they kind of painted me this Vision in the you know last summer last spring last fall they kind of said it and this is exactly what they said it was going to be now how about all the things that they told me that I could be with this program now I can actually see myself in it like I I know what that looks like that'd be a best case scenario for Pope g land a couple guys to not feel like you're scrambling at the last second in the spring get a couple really really talented guys and then go get tunde yesu in in the spring then go get a Wilson go go sub surprise Everybody by Landing him in the spring he has made it abundantly clear that he is in no rush to make that decision he wants to wait until the dust settles to kind of figure out what the landscape of the schools on his on his List look like so that's one that you could go after Chris cak like that's one that Pope is just drooling over he loves there's a reason why he made that trip all the way up to Indianapolis to go see him on the Puma circuit that to open the the live period there's a reason for that because he's a really really really talented player and loves him so lay the early Foundation put your money where your mouth is maybe if you have to pay a premium on some of these guys don't go above and beyond to you know to overpay but be competitive that if that's what it's it takes to land a couple of these guys and then win just win games go go make a run go prove that you are the coach that we all know you can be and then the proof is in the pudding and you really start ramping up in 2026 like I think 26 if you everything goes as planned 26 can be an absolute Banger of a class 25 can be really good might just be a little bit more portal heavy and then you kind of go get the guys that you want to get the year after because the coaching product is excellent and Kentucky is Kentucky yeah and look this staff has a lot of guys that everybody that I've talked to really really lockable guys that I think are going to be able to hold a room pitch Kentucky and get a lot of guys to buy into it like they're pretty convincing when you talk to them like you can sense the energy and the excitement about being at Kentucky and I think that's kind of something that kind of bleeds throughout your entire staff when you go into homes and you recruit now this summer circuit was the first piece of Kentucky under Mar Pope that we've really got and I thought they covered it well just because there's no one committee right now doesn't mean that they weren't successful the last three months they're establishing a brand we are now entering an era of college basketball college sports where you've got establish Brands when it comes to money we know in football it's easier for certain programs to get money than it is for others in college basketball you've got your Blue Bloods Jack but at the end of the day each brand is changing when a new face comes in like what is this new brand of Kentucky basketball yes you've got your history you've got national championships you've got the opportunity to be on TV every single night and be on a national schedule like but what is it that makes Kentucky Kentucky under Mark Pope it will be something different than what made Kentucky Kentucky under John caliper the history and tradition is there but what is your brand we're still kind of trying to wait on that and I don't know what this Brand's going to be I'll say this I'm excited for it because I don't think that this staff is going to miss I truly think that they are dialed in I think that they have a plan on what they want to do maybe they're not going to reveal every little thing to us retention is where I think the core of it's going to be and I think there are guys on this roster right now I know there's a lot of super seniors but when you look at that next pool of kids and that are on this roster and players you can see a lot of those guys possibly back next year to kind of be that Foundation to kind of build around in recruiting then you go to the portal and and and get some guys and get some faces there like it's just it's a transition ition thing to where I don't think until the calendar turns to 25 that we're really going to know what it really looks like in Lexington you want to see what they do on the floor you want to see them host official visits and guys in the stands and what's the atmosphere like at rep Arena I think the atmosphere is going to be great like I think there's going to be so much juice in that building early in the season and Big Blue Madness I think Pope and them are going to go all out Jack and I think they're going to really sell this program and and kind of fully get that flight going like that trajectory continue going upward just get yourself in the Striking Distance that that that is Pope's job right now that's what they're doing right now evaluate the heck out of these guys they they are leaving no stone unturned which I which is what makes me feel really confident about their evaluation like you said they're not just going to the recruiting rankings and saying I'm gonna send text to the top 20 kids in the country that's not what they're doing I mean they were at the NCAA college basketball Academy this past week seeing some International talent that a lot of guys have never heard of gu guys that have been making their own individual splashes in their own realm but like not on the national stage they're watching those guys closely I mean you had Kentucky in conversations with big Julius from from New Zealand um for after the global games like that he's you know I don't think they're going to end up going after him and pursuing him the way they thought there were some transcript issues is my understanding that just wasn't it wasn't the right fit with um some of the things that they were looking for but um very kind of similar thing where they were looking high and low and everywhere in between to try to find you know for that 13th spot as a reclass guy and another note on that um I think they have talked to more people than I think the general public knows and what's what's been reported um talked to somebody at peach jam that said that they were about to land a reclass kid in International reclass kid for coming from 25 to 24 and when they kind of got deep into the process about it uh they realized that he couldn't get the transcripts in order and couldn't be a reclass to 24 and they kind of had to part ways from there and say hey maybe we'll Circle back next you know next cycle but not going to work out this time and nobody had any idea who that that kid even was so the they they're doing their digging and they're doing their du due diligent D due due diligence I just don't think it's going to pay off in the short term because they don't have the sample size built up but in the long term starting that 26 cycle and the guys that stick around to the spring I I do think that they're going to be able to to hit the ground running and and even for like a re you know the 26 re classes to 25 that's something to monitor as well because you put yourself in position with those guys for next summer next peach jam the guys that are trying to reclass right now they've seen what this upcoming season is going to be for Kentucky so it's it's the the payoff is going to be there well it may not be the best comparison or but when you get here like listen entirely New Hall every single face Travis Perry you can kind of count from Cal like he was already committed signed and things but you that that was one that was already there so Jack you come in and I mean you probably compare it to planting some crops right like you you get your soil ready you go out and get in the transfer portal and try to get a roster together give me give me your gardening tips buddy you go out there and you you fertilize baby fertilize you plant the seeds throughout the spring and the summer and now we're just hoping for rain right like you you're preparing for rain now you just need it to rain a little bit well the rain's not coming to me until you get into the season and you start kind of really showcasing your program get that thing on a national level on TV and let's see what Mark Pope Kentucky basketball is about and when you get that I think you get results in every area of your program but they've done the preparation now you just got to trust it and trust your system and let's see how it how it plays out and look you're going to have opportunities Kentucky and Duke early in the season I'm telling you it's a massive opportunity for Mark you go out and you beat Duke early oh boy man what could that do for you you just can't go lose by 40 and I don't think they will I think that this is a roster it would not shot me I know they're flying under the radar a little bit it wouldn't shock me if Kentucky goes to that game and beats Duke early in the season with a lot of new faces it would not Shock Me you got Cooper flag it's but you got Kentucky there I think that I just think that this is a team that can they're veteran heavy and I think they're going to go out with something to prove and that's a big National Spotlight for this program early in the season big big one to get off the ground for Pope you can't to me you can lose that one but you gotta be competitive you can't lose to John caliper and Arkansas coming to rep Arena that's one that I think you can't lose this year and I do think man that if you can like if if you can say you land Jasper say you land Malachi say you land brayan Mullins in this cycle and then you say we just need one swing for the fences in the spring we just need one more guy we're going to fill out the rest with with portal guys I mean then you can just say man if we do beat Duke we do beat Arkansas we do win some of these Marquee games and kind of put our money where our mouth is and prove that we can be the team that we kind of voice ourselves then maybe you do land a Caleb Wilson maybe then you do land a Chris cak maybe you do get a Nate emit like there are guys that they love they're just you know T tund yesu is a great example of that like I think he loves the pitch but he grew up a kind you know rooting for John calip Perry's Kentucky they're he's receptive to Pope's pitch but it is kind of one of those deals where it's like but do we you know can we can we trust him that could be uh that that would be a a huge huge huge get for Kentucky to be able to to land him and I don't think it's limited obviously AJ Deans is the that's the one if you can land him then all bets are off for the future of the program that's that's a program changing G but you know kind of sell your vision a little harder maybe overspend a little bit right now if it means that you can kind of single down your search in the spring to just push your chips on on one guy and say you're R1 let's let's close out this class and and see what happens so they're they're in a good spot they they're in Striking Distance for a lot of guys I it I know it's kind of scary that they're not getting a ton of traction with oh my gosh you know Malachi's the only real guy publicly that you can say ky's the overwhelming favorite to L him he's really the only guy right now everybody else Jasper brillan Mullins Tunda yapu um you know some just some of these other guys they're there they're kind you know one of the favorites but they're not the favorite and I think that that's scary to some people but they're in Striking Distance for 10 you know they're in they're in the ballpark with with a lot of guys and and I think that's going to pay off uh assuming things go the way they they want it to when the season starts sorry I was laughing somebody somebody text me and said we've uh we've seen you with dumbbells with Pat Kelce on them now we're going to see you in farm like farmerie of straw in my mouth oh goodness all right let's let's move on Lexington preparing for rain let's move on a little bit I I talked looking at our subjects we talked a little bit about the 13th spot I don't think it's going to go to big Julius I wouldn't be shocked if it's not used I know Pope has been outspoken about it publicly Fager's been outspoken about it being used at some point um like I said they're coming across some guys that they like but are wanting too much like pretty transparent that you know like a Jeremiah Fierce um they liked him talked to him reached out said hey you know what would this look like but he wanted to play right away he wanted to reclass and play right away play a big big role immediately Kentucky said that's just not something that we can offer right now because we got a really really good group and they parted ways will Riley my understanding that they liked him but he wanted to be the guy ended up being able to be that guy at at Illinois and got a role that Kentucky just wasn't willing to to offer right now so the hope is still that they find a project they they want a project piece for that 13th spot who can come in they can develop over the course of a couple years be a homegrown talent and you know internally you know program grown talent and fill out the roster that way but if that guy doesn't exist or you know people that think that they can reclass the way they have with some of the other guys they've experienced and they can't then I think they're they're totally content with not using that 13th spot maybe something pops up in January um just don't they don't want to use it just for the sake of using it so that that's one to keep a very close eye on uh let's kind of shift gears just a little bit because it was a big couple of weeks Sean with um La Familia coming to town um that was really cool kind of seeing the updates that came out of the Joe Craft Center in rup Arena when they had their head-to-head uh practices and you know on court battles that first night went to La Familia Squad it was it's my understanding it was kind of like a simulated halfcourt two halves of halfcourt basketball in the Joe Craft Center uh and La Familia absolutely destroyed um the current Kentucky team just ran them off the floor did not go well and then the next night at rup Arina lill got their butt kicked and Kentucky looked really really good the guys that I talked to that were in attendance and watched watched it unfold said that this squad they got some they got some stuff to it that just the it's the movement it's the off ball movement and and and and just the chemistry and the as as crisp as thing things are right now in July it does kind of have people dreaming big about what they could look like in October November and Beyond so um pretty impressive for me I I I understand that these guys are washed for today's era in you know college and NBA standards still very very talented but not who they used to be obviously but I think it's pretty pretty big statement for them to go play the way they did at R Arina and and win the way they were able to yeah you mean you mean the older guys performed better in the half court setting than they did the Full Court setting they sure did a lot of length too with that group uh especially Willie KY Stein but but no I mean La Familia has been fun right like ah dude it's been so freaking awesome I wish that I could have gone I've not been able to because we we had a fundraiser the other day and then we've with some other things and stuff with basketball priorities there but I'll say this BBN continues to prove that if you give them something it doesn't matter what month of the year it is they're going to invest in it and they're going to support it if it's a good product and team law Familia has been a good product it's cool to see Tyler ulis over there coaching he's not just standing there he's actually coaching and coaching these guys up and I'll say this how hard do you think it is to come in and kind of command the room with guys that you played with are older than you yeah so when I got into coaching I started coaching a year removed from high school and I started coaching guys that were my teammates they looked at me like I had two heads now these are professionals I know but I think there's such a respect for Tyler Ulus that I think it's easy and I think all these guys are having fun with it but look they're competing and there's going to be some intensity Monday night at 9:00 like this is fun like we're getting Kentucky and Louisville in Late July dude it's so cool and I talked to Travis Perry about it yesterday um he was like I don't think people understand what it's like to be a kid from the state like it it it's like me being a kid from the state of Kentucky and watching them in the the the peak of their career I mean Aaron Harrison shot the the the dunks from Willie cystein the toughness and grittiness that you know Tyler Ulus and Eric bledo showed and you know just all of these guys that are iconic figures in the grand scheme of Kentucky basketball and then have them be back here obviously me just watching up close being at media day being at the you know practice and um seeing them at the game and and being on the floor with them watching them warm up and seeing them it it was just it brings you back to where you were when they played here it brought me back to you know the John Wall Dance it brought me back to you know that Louisville game DeMarcus Cousins throwing the elbow on Jared swap Shire and and you all of those memories that are in your head Willie cystein you know block you know pinning that Arkansas dude shot on the backboard and staring him down like it all of those things just come rushing back and you're like man this is the coolest thing on the planet and Travis Perry was like yeah imagine playing against it imagine practicing against them at rup Arena and Eric bledo hitting me with a spin move and going straight into my chest and me getting thrown back and going damn that was Eric bledo you know like it's such a cool like Larger than Life thing for the current players especially like Trent Noah and Travis Perry because they've they grown up with it but I mean Eric blo is a 12-y year NBA event like that's a guy Amari Williams said that watching Willie kste over the years and knowing who he is first team All-American Defensive Player of the Year all that that like hey I want to model my game after him after just seeing him at La Familia because I know the impact that he was able to make at Kentucky I want to make something similar this is just a really really big thing and a really cool thing that for us to get Kentucky Louisville in Late July with so much on you know so many of the figures of the kind you know Eric bledo getting into it with regginald Delk five seconds into the game in the the the 09 matchup with them and you just go through all the memories Willie cystein getting that steel and you know sending Montes heral into the stands and then dunk in in that game the the the eye bleeding with Tyler Ulus just go down a list so many of these members we get to relive them again at Freedom Hall of all places so I'll be there I cannot wait it's going to be an absolute blast and fans if you have not bought tickets yet they are going very very quickly 10,000 Plus have already been sold already broke the TBT record for what you know TBC record was like seven 7K plus we're already at 10K Plus sell that thing out let's let's fill this thing up let's paint Freedom Hall blue and and let's do this thing the right way and I'm confident Kentucky is gonna win for one reason got the card Killer leading the charge did you see his Instagram did you see what he posted on Instagram I haven't seen it so uh he posted on his Instagram story some of the people affiliated with Louisville were like tagging him and going like it's going to be musty TV at Freedom Hall and like he added you know added that to his story and quoted and was just like you guys do know what my nickname is right like you guys do understand that this is this is what I do I am the card Killer I'm not gonna take this match up lightly so man I I believe you I think it's going to be a fun matchup but I think it's gonna be one that that the Kentucky boys are able to to pull out and on another note on just law familia in general I I think it the timing of this was perfect because I think when it all happened and you you switch and you have the coaching change and Cal goes to Arkansas and you got a new face coming in you kind of want to see you know what's the what's the relationship like with the guys that played for Cal for 15 years in lexton I think it's so cool to see so many from different teams here you got Nate CA from the back end of it Kellen Grady all the way to the beginning you got Eric blo you got the guys that were a core part of it in the Middle with the the Harrison twins Willie col Stein and we know Tyler is there like there's there's so many different teams put together into this and it's been cool to kind of see them enjoy being back and that Kentucky basketball is not about who the head coach was it's about BBN it's about being here and experiencing it and being a part of it once you go through it you're a part of it for life regardless of who you played for so I think that it was like perfect timing to kind of get Lilia here to kind of bridge the gap between era to New Era than Mark pop sitting Courtside in a law Familia Jersey the other night like well you talk about a guy that commands the room too right he has so much energy about him that I feel like it's the same energy every single time that he gets a chance to rep Kentucky and you can just tell that guy's having the time of his life and Jasper was there that that was pretty cool to you know bunch of special guests Rajan Ronda was there like could you imagine what and I heard actually that um John Wall was like kind of close to committing this year and that next year he's going to be pretty serious about about participating but could you imagine if you're able to get ran Rondo John Wall DeMarcus Cousins you know the you swung for the fences with some of these guys but to get the like cream of the crop like DeMarcus Cousins would average 35 and 20 in TBT like if Kum caner is averaging 22 and N right now and kum's a dog k is a Hooper DeMarcus Cousins is eating up these opponents chewing them up and spitting them out on the floor like that's what that's what would happen unfortunately to these these poor souls and I I I am desperate I am praying that he comes to his senses and and makes it happen this next cycle and I mean make Duron lamb figure figure out a way to get him out there I know it sucked with the contract issue that popped up with Marcus Teague and Reed Travis I think Reed Travis would just absolutely Dem the competition and this but if they do this then they are doing this right but if they're able to win this and show that like hey this is a cool thing the fan support's awesome it opens the door for more opportunities to come back you know make some side money with autograph signings and things like that like there is a long-term benefit to kind of keeping this thing moving and Bridging the Gap between the generations that kind of feels like a taboo topic right now where when you have guys outspoken like Eric BL saying no I love Mark Pope man energy is awesome the Harrison twins love Mark Pope energy is awesome you know we met the team um you know Lamont Butler showed Eric bledo a picture of him when he was 10 years old with bledo playing uh for the Phoenix Suns meeting together and and taking a picture together like little things like that like this is a really cool thing that we could kind of keep moving forward with the bigger and better and best talent that Kentucky has had over the years if they win this I think it's going to be a a kind of a long-term thing that we see uh just to kind of keep keep the train moving forward between the you know generation gap haven't been to a final four or nine years then get they get back there in a different form with a win on Monday and uh I know I know people are invested they they've been invested in La Familia but I think the buzz going into Monday I think there's going to be a lot more just because look it's Kentucky Louisville every time you get a chance to be Louisville you go all out and uh with nothing else competing with it I know the Olympics and things are are starting but this this is a big one Monday night does it does it mean anything that that this Kentucky team was seeing how La Familia has played against TBT competition does it mean anything that they were able to win the way they were and how they won because it was it wasn't necessarily just the shots that they hit that let you know led to the blowout it was how they were able to do it with the people that you talk to that were that were there at that that that practice at rup that it was the how and the structure and the reads and the off bom movement and the cutting and slashing and they just they ran they ran La Familia off the floor does that mean something to you Jean it does and and I think you sent me the highlights right and we were talking about yeah we we talked back and forth about some things and I think it was pretty telling just looking at highlights and obviously we didn't get to see a full game or anything but I think there were a lot of things that stood out to me from from that game uh just from what how long were the highlights maybe a minute and a half on Twitter yeah Amari Williams made a lot of good reads and a lot of good passes out of that five spot I thought that was really cool to see and then he's a guy that I think is going to emerge and to me that's my pick to take that spot that that they're need offensively and then still Anchor It defensively but you see kirkara making some really good plays and read you saw the get action that we talked about guy goes under you stop and Rise guy overplays you back cut like they're making those reads and they're making them early that's just playing basketball like if you've these guys have played so much basketball that I think the transition to Mark Pope is actually going to be effortless when it comes to doing that part of the game how in depth do they go at Kentucky probably remains to be seen but those initial three to four reads that you have the options to make I think they got high IQ guys that are going to make those reads correctly more often than they don't make them correctly but I I do think that there is something to it I think if anything it gives this group confidence to be like man we we're playing really well together against current pros and former Pros what can we be when we get some actual fall practice under our belt too so I mean I'd much rather than win than lose in that so I'm I'm excited to see that see this Kentucky team in a competitive setting at some point like I'm looking forward to exhibition schedule and actually seeing what these guys look like Jack yep and I believe Darius Acuff just committed to Arkansas yep as expected um a guy that fans are gonna be gonna be going crazy over that one yeah a kid that very likely would have ended up at Kentucky uh had Coach Cal still been here but you know it is just different kind of seeing the identity of guys that that Pope is going after too because like the there was a pretty very real mutual breakup between a and and Pope once things got rolling between the two and it was both sides it was Acuff saying that you know I'm I'm a cow guy I'm not a Kentucky guy that's fair but Pope also wanting you know guys that kind of fit his system and and gearing himself toward toward those guys that it it was easy to be a mutual pill to swallow uh for both sides so hey that's going to be the the future moving forward we're going to see a whole lot of top 10 top 15 top 20 kids however long Cal ends up in fville that Still Remains very much to be seen but he'll be adding that that type of talent that's the other thing that you're having to get some separation from right like what John caliper recruited at Kentucky like Acuff and these other guys those relationships were established MH and I mean you heard I'm I'm a cow guy not a Kentucky guy that's that's true I mean we know that so to me it's about getting ground between that too to where now as you start to key in on targets it is your approach it is Kentucky basketball from your angle and nobody else's angle influenced it I think that's important too to kind of get rolling and recruiting is just to get some ground between but they they got to figure out and I I trust them too who are going to be the first one to two guys that commit via the high school route to Mark Pope and is it a splash is it something that gets the fan base excited do we look on paper and on film and see man that guy really fits because he does what so and so does in the system that's the things you're going to be able to see the familiarity and and what their how their games kind of transition and translate to not just college basketball but Kentucky basketball and the brand that they're going to play now yeah I think fortunately we won't have to wait very long um we're going to learn J the Fate with with Jasper very very soon we're less than a month away from his commitment so um we'll see if Kentucky closes how they choose to close um that one's gonna be interesting that that that one is going to be one that I think kind of changes their trajectory moving forward with guys like you know Michel Brown Kaden Lewis like they're they're they other guys that they're in on that are kind of having to play the waiting game of just how seriously are we going to go all in with it but those guys also have ties elsewhere and you know things that could bring them you know P push them to other programs and you know apparel ties and you know Michel Brown kind of being an Adidas guy and Kaden Lewis Northeast Yukon there's there are different things that kind of push you know chrak being being you know LSU kind of emerging as an early favorite for him for local ties you know it's just you're working against some other guys recruiting pitches and um so I'm glad that we're going to learn sooner rather than later on Jasper because I think it's going to kind of set off a domino effect of all right well if we we're not going to land the top 10 instate kid that's in our backyard we got to make a splash for Optics we gotta because it is going to be a PR hit whether you love Jasper whether you hate Jasper as a player you know they he's a polarizing Talent tent um I think no matter what Optics are going to be really important for for Mark Pope with how that how he kind of navigates that moving forward where if you don't land him especially losing him to another blue blood especially losing him to an SEC rival I think he's gonna have to make a quick pivot and find somebody to replace him in a hurry but I'm personally hoping that they seal the deal on him because I love Jasper and um I think I think it's important to keep to keep him home so we'll see what happens that we'll find that out in the next couple weeks we will keep you guys updated as always any last minute things that we want to hit Sean before we we wrap this thing up no I know we might end up getting another film episode in would love to do that yes there was so much to add to what we did that there's still a lot to kind of go through we're gonna do a film episode we're also going to have a very special uh live in-person appearance at the Kentucky Road Show shop with Jimmy Mayan very close buddy of mine I think for my money the coolest venue in Lexington Baran it's a museum that Kentucky fans just have to witness for themselves so we're going to be there we're going to kind of dig into the artifacts that he has there that would have every Kentucky fan on planet Earth drooling uh if they were able to see that with their own two eyes memorabilia jerseys signatures shoes you just history it it it is truly a museum that we want to be able to kind of put on under a microscope and really dig in and see uh everything going on we're going to do that shortly we talked about next week but we'll we'll talk with with Jimmy get something scheduled we can't wait to have him on and kind of um reminisce a little bit go go down memory lane and and just kind of see where that show takes us it's gonna be a blast so we have a lot of fun stuff going we're still on the docket with the mark Pope at some point to to join this show we're still going to keep our assistant series moving forward so plenty plenty plenty of cool stuff coming up on source to say as we inch closer and closer to college basketball season cannot wait the uh season is right right in front of us Mark Pope debut is right in front of us it's going to be h a heck of a wild ride one way or another so we can't wait for you guys to follow along with us Jack Pilgrim here you can find me on Twitter at Jack Pilgrim ksr go subscribe to ksr plus make sure you're sub subscribed right here on the ksr YouTube page Sean where can fans find your work thank you Daniel for putting that up there because remember when I used to have trouble uh remembering my exh handle it's _ coach s Smith and on the court with Frederick knas obviously yes on the court EXC about going back there for for another year by the way like I know we've not really talked about that but very excited to stay in Lexington remain in Lexington and uh go back somewhere for for a second season with the new staff yeah it's going to be a blast we're excited to follow along with it and we know you're going to crush it as always just as you did in your your your first run with them so uh make sure you follow along there make sure you follow along with us we'll be back next time for the jamack sources say podcast we will see you then [Music]