Bookshop Interview with Author Michael Wiley, Episode #105

[Music] welcome to the Bookshop at the end of the internet this podcast is dedicated to helping Book Lovers discover new authors like all the best bookshops this podcast is filled with all kinds of books and all kinds of authors so tune in browse around find a new author and discover a new favorite book at the Bookshop at the end of the internet I'm Stacy haran author book lover and host of the Bookshop at the end of the [Music] internet this is episode number [Music] 105 for more information about this or any of our episodes go to my website Stacy ran.com if you enjoy the podcast leave us a review like us on social media and share us with your friends family and fellow readers [Music] in today's episode of the Bookshop at the end of the internet I'm chatting with author Michael Wy about his newest series starring private investigator Sam Kelson the most recent installment is Lucky Bones book number two in the series book number three titled headcase will be available later this spring the main character Pi Sam Kelson is not your typical investigator well he is in that he gets himself in royed in the Mysteries his clients have hired him to solve but Michael's main character suffers from disinhibition which manifests as impulsivity and often a lack of regard for social conventions the main character's inability to keep quiet when the situation requires it is not a helpful trait for a private investigator it does however make for some very interesting storylines Michael found inspiration for his main character's Affliction from his children when they were teenagers specifically their deep embarrassment at almost everything he said and did in this episode I'll chat with Michael about his writing Journey how he puts his own unique spin on the mystery genre and how he treats his stories as puzzles that he is constantly taking apart and putting back together as well as a few other things coming up [Music] [Music] Michael Wy I want to thank you very much for joining me today on the podcast thank you so much for having me Stacy what I thought we could do today is start by talking about your latest series featuring private investigator Sam Kelson you have two books out and a third on the way in the US why don't you start by introducing us to Sam Kelson and talking to us about this series and the books you have out and what's coming sure uh Sam Kelson is a private investigator I I write crime novels I write Mysteries and thrillers and crime um Sam Kelson is a private eye like one you've never met before I hope he's somebody who is deeply disinhibited working a job as a cop he was a former his former job was as a Narcotics undercover agent um he took a shot he took a a gunshot and since then the injuries have led him to a real psychological condition called disinhibition and you can you can look it up and find some famous figures through history who've had it and basically what it means for him is that he's incapable of keeping quiet at the times when he should be quiet and so he will answer he will answer you know pretty much any question that somebody throws his way sometimes that gets him into deep trouble he generally pretty much always is going to answer truthfully which can be an issue for clients who are trying to keep their their cases under wraps um and and I I found him a really interesting kind of a figure you know I think that a lot of parents I've I've got three kids they're all in college now but when I started thinking about the the pleasures of writing this kind of a character they were all they were all middle school high school and of course they're embarrassed by everything that their parents do and you know they're always wishing that I would be more inhibited you know when we're out in public you know would I please put my head down please keep my mouth shut and I thought you know private eyes you know Private Eyes historically you know the tradition very much has has the the wise cracking smartass kind of a a figure who who speaks up more than she or he should um but usually has certain kind of limits this guy Sam Kelson for the most part the limits are gone um and so you know he's been a really fun fun um figure to to write into Mysteries and so as you say I have two out the first trouble in mind and the second one Lucky Bones Lucky Bones um being the most recent book and that's that's out there right now um involves a a pretty you know wild case in which he gets approached by by a woman who has Jimmy chew designer shoes that have been stolen from the from her apartment um they turn out to be counterfeit ones and and off we go and you have a third one coming out yes yes it's called headcase it's called headcase it it just um it's going to be releasing in the United States on April 6th um it's already out in in some countries um my Publishers a publisher who works out of the UK and so they have different schedules depending on the country um um but yeah Head Case involves involves three seemingly unconnected deaths in a hospital um and then the question is are they are they connected or not and Sam Kelson once again bounces his way through and and finds the answers so when you started this series and you were writing book one trouble in mind did you know that you were going to write a series or would were you just testing the waters did you just have the idea for the one book and well we'll see it goes after that I did know this would be a series especially with a character like this a first book is is is tricky you know there there are C certain kinds of um genre books that that people immediately are going to understand and so this is actually my second private investigator series I have an earlier one with a guy named Joe kmari um set in Chicago and and Joe kmari again that that took we just did three books in that series before my then publisher uh kind of gave me the boot and so that that that one ended a little ously but um I I I love writing series characters and that was one that that I I realized that you know a certain kind of a wise cracking figure a certain kind of guy who has um or a woman who has various flaws but also has extraordinary strengths in other ways that this is a kind of a character that readers come to love if if one does does it right you know you can catch that love in the first book but once when I was working with Sam kelum you know this guy who's deeply disin inhibited I was dealing with a set of characteristics that I thought all right you know this might this might take two books maybe even three books before people really catch on I've been fortunate because all all you know the two books that are out so far have have got a really good strong audience but but I think that as I'm watching you know the responses as I'm hearing people respond to this character um you know it's a kind of series that I love to read and I was hoping to produce it myself as well so yes I was thinking about this as a series from the beginning do you have story ideas for the various books going out in the series or do you wait for inspiration for each one um you know it I don't know either it's a good thing or a bad thing but but I always have more ideas than I can get to um and so I I knew I knew what I wanted to do in the first one which is to ground it pretty pretty closely because it's a pretty ungrounded character main character I wanted to ground it pretty closely within some recognizable private eye you know private detective types of storylines and so I have a woman arriving at at Sam kelson's office who has a a case to be solved and you know she's not a f fatal but but she's somebody who we recognize from from this kind kind of writing um and so I wanted to do that I knew that as I moved along I wanted to complicate the plots I wanted things to become more and more challenging as far as what he had to face and so so th those kinds of parameters I was working with but then then I kind of threw him into into scenarios that that I knew were going to be enjoyable you know this this process can come you know in a variety of different ways you know some sometimes again I'll have a story line that occurs to me that this is something that I really would want want to tell this type of a story sometimes it will be you know I don't want to call it inspiration but I'll see something that that is remarkable to me and I think all right this is this could be the basis for a really good story so they come it comes from everywhere from the news from watching television from talking to friends from walking across the city it comes from everywhere yeah the private investigator genre if you will it's it's a popular one it has very loyal fans people are who read in this genre are Avid readers how do you put your own stamp on books that fit within this genre how do you make yours unique for readers and yet like you said still feel familiar so that they have some idea of what to expect when they open your book and start reading that's for for me that's a really important question and and I think it is you know I think it is for the writers I I respect the most and enjoy reading the most and the the answer is is probably a multi-part one but I'll hit the kind of the two the two main parts of it the first part of it is that especially when we're looking at genre fiction one one one can either read something and say same old same old in which case you know one might as well read any other book you know one one doesn't have to pick up you know say one by me or by anybody else to to to to find pleasure um or you know and this is where it begins to get really interesting or writers can manipulate the conventions you know writers can see what has been done before and say all right what is the you know what is something that I can do that is going to really make things interesting again and and readers you know they they look to these books at least I as a reader I Look to these books expecting certain kinds of things to happen because you know this is part of this is part of the genre when something happens that's a little bit different you know it can offer Pleasures on its own right and then it also offers Pleasures in relationship to the expectations right you know it we can surprise ourselves we can surprise each other by by just changing up you know so if one say you know puts in a detective who has a certain kind of a flaw whether you know whether it's something that we've never seen before or maybe just in combination with other features in this detective you know she or he can become a very interesting figure now you know how does one how does one do that um and again I think that's that's a that's a big big question as well um you know you can always start at home you know as I said you know part of the reason that I thought that this detective Sam Kelson would be enjoyable to write was that I was aware of the degree to which one my my kids and everybody else around I think sometimes you they they they enjoy the the excitement of seeing somebody who's behaving in a disinhibited way but also when it's up close and personal you know there there's a cost to it you know so that that's that's true in Sam kelson's case um so you know I I started that one at home plus you know combining that with my reading in the genre in which detectives you know frequently should be more inhibited you know especially in the you know say the old Raymond Chandler and more recently Robert CCE and you know there's so many other people read Ferell Coleman SJ Rosanne you know all kinds of wonderful writers who are working in this field who who make it new every day the other place that I think you know unless unless one's ignoring one's surroundings things are going to become new is that you know every day of course you know it's a new historical moment and so whatever we're writing you know ideally is going to be something that's relevant to the the events that are going on you know around us that's not to say that we're writing political Thrillers or social realism those kinds of things but you know part of the part of the cultural moment you know what is the music that's happening you know how how are people having conversations what are the tensions you know what are people talking about thinking about again that that that's something that comes in usually not directly you know it's not like a going to be mentioning the you know the musician of the moment um but but there is a kind of a feel to it and all of this is going to influence how how we go forward um the Kelson books you know were very interesting ones um or have been very interesting to me to write um I wrote the first of them you know just a little background real quickly on on disinhibition is that when people have dis disinhibition It generally is from say a frontal um brain injury brain trauma um that that that frequently is what's going to cause it and and one of the things that happens is that you know the inhibitions that deal with certain kinds of things that we really value inhibition on say you know talk that involves say sex um you know say mutual attraction or not mutual attraction um you know these are some of the things that that frequently in real life um get kind of Stripped Away or or at least they're not you know people aren't self-imposing them as much this can happen um with some frequency another area is is kind of physical aggression um can come out and so these are some of the the features of it from the very beginning you know writing a fictional character you know I I cut way back on some of those possibilities because you know again this this should be a pleasure it should be something that we're reading this character as somebody who has great deep recognizable Humanity even as he had even as he maybe speaks out and does things that that one normally wouldn't do you know hopefully they're on that line where we say yeah this is a a person we love um but I wrote that character um and then you know some of the some of the kinds of things that in the first draft he was doing as we became you know as we were talking more and more you know about in the me too movement in the the mo the movement talking about how language itself even language that doesn't necessarily have an overt kind of aggression or overt kind of sexuality frequently can have that implicit now when I'm writing him you know I'm thinking about the the environment in which he would be using this kind of language and sometimes these kinds of actions that would be inappropriate but still we would say yeah we hear this all the time and while you know I'm saying we in in kind of a a general way knowing that it's not a a generalizable way or it's not a generalizable we but but but ones that we would recognize right ones that we would recognize and say this is part of the reality of discourse without people say checking us on it I'd gotten done with that draft you know i' got you know totally you know finished up pretty much that that story and then you know I realized as as all kinds of news was breaking that nope you know this is no longer going to do this is no longer going to do and so I had to revise pretty heavily you know this is a long way of getting back to that point of you know how does one make it new is that that even when one makes it new or fresh um you know history and and and our surroundings at least in my case you I feel like it sometimes is going to you know drive right over us and we have to reinvent and rethink um and you know that that's part of the pleasure I guess obviously you read a lot in this genre are there aspects of the genre of these kinds of stories or specific tropes that you personally love that you try to make sure you work into your stories any particular favorites of yours yes you know I like a lot of people and again this this is not the only kind of um book I've written though I do have six of my books are are in this subg genre um and you know the What drew me to write crime initially was reading people like Raymond Chandler Robert chce these people who have smart alec detectives you know people these detectives get themselves often into more trouble than they should by saying the wrong thing or being willing to say even what's the right thing but at a moment when it might be dangerous I I've always been attracted to that you know it's it's one of those things like you know after we you know have an argument or after we see somebody or after we meet some for the first time you know and later on we think well what should I have said you know or you know this is what I should have said at that moment um and you know one of the Wonders and one of the you know great things about writing uh books is of course we have drafts and drafts and drafts and so so we get that opportunity you know the the detective often says says something that that is really fitting and really sharp at the right moment so I love the dialogue I love the reparte um and I love the action you know I love the action and I love I love working out Mysteries and so kind of generally I do so let's talk a little bit about some of your other books because I'm curious how this series other than the specific main character how this series differs from some of the other work that you've put out yes the the two private detective series that I've written in many ways have a lot in common Again Sam Kelson has disinhibition um Joe kmari is this Polish American guy living in a city in Chicago that you know has a bigger Polish American or bigger polish population than any city outside of Warsaw so you know you know they have they're both middle-aged men um with interesting family situations you know who are jumping into these kinds of things both of those series by the way are you know the Kelson one as well as the kmari um is set in in Chicago I've been living now for over 20 years in southeast I'm sorry in the Southeast in Northeast Florida um having grown up in Chicago lived lived a number of years in New York as well but now for the last 20 years I've been living in Jacksonville Florida and when I moved here I immediately knew I needed to write about this environment there you know so vastly different from say a Chicago or a New York and I also knew that I was really really IL equipped to write about it you know again I was coming in with the eyes of somebody who had lived elsewhere and everything I saw was brand new everything that I saw you know seemed noteworthy and really I needed I needed a good number of years you know about 10 years of living here before I began to think all right now now I don't have that the newcomer eyes you know some people would say you know anybody who hasn't been here for three generations as a Newcomer's eyes you know but I I've been here long enough that you know I I felt comfortable writing about this area um I also had the sense that while Pi kind of writing you know there's a kind of a a quickness to action and language and things like that that I haven't found to exist in the same ways in this part of the country um and so I thought that maybe writing Thrillers would be would be more interesting and so we don't have a whole lot of of fiction that has been set here um certainly not in recent years and so I thought this would be a really good place to to write some very dark very dark um kind of Thrillers and so you know I sometimes say that you know I'm writing about the dark side of the Sunshine State um you know that that's that's this place that that's my books here and so um they're dark they're gritty um the first three involved they kind of revolved Loosely around a certain homicide detective working for um the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office um and then I also have one that's a stand one you've written sort of in this broader genre of crime Mysteries Thrillers was it always your plan to write in this genre how did you how did you start was it intentional Did you sort of stumble into it what what got you started yeah um you know I I'm kind of an overnight success at age you know 40 roughly um you know which just to say that that it took me a long long way to get here um you know as a kid as a kid I loved reading Mysteries and I loved reading crime so you know when other kids were reading whatever children Twilights or something like that you I I had a anthology of true cases of the FBI you know I was probably the youngest subscriber to Ellery Queen Mystery magazine and I was that kid who just really loved that kind of a genre um but as I got older as I went into high school you know I began to you know really fall in love with say these serious big books and so I you know read read what we you know typically think of as literary fiction you know capital L and that went went through college I was an English major and and so on um I got out of college and and tried making it as a writer immediately and I got involved in this was back in Chicago got involved with a variety of um groups who were working on theater and working on on film and working on you know their own fiction um but again mostly for the most part kind of the the capital L literary um and you know I I struggled to make it for four years or so um barely paid the rent and and decided to go to graduate school and when I went to graduate school I thought all right I'm leaving all that behind um and so this was in New York at that point you know to kind of cut to the chase moved down to Jackson to take a job at the University of North Florida um and my wife and I who'd been together for for a long time at that point um we started having kids and in less than two years we had three kids including a pair of twins and as you might imagine all my more serious thought you it was kind of a burnt burnt at late nights of of getting up to take care of of very young screaming kids um and it was really it was kind of a desperation move that I thought what what do I need you know what am I going to take great pleasure out of and I began to pick up these crime novels again and I again I just fell in love with them at that point and not only did I fall in love with them at that point but I thought you know I can do this I can do this and so I that was when I started writing crime um so you know having kids taught me to you know think well about murder um so that was the that was the uh that was the trigger so so you've been writing for quite a while when did you first consider yourself a writer I also have two non-fiction books and these are literary criticism and when the first of those came out I thought all right now you know when when you see when you see it in hard cover you know when you see it in hard cover you kind of say all right this is it uh but in you know in ways that I wouldn't have you know I guess here here's the thing is I would I would consider myself from a very early age as somebody who writes you know somebody who wrote um and so th those years between undergraduate and graduate school I wrote um you know I had articles come out you know journalism and a variety of other kinds of things I worked as a speech writer for a while and so so there there was no question that I wrote but you know you know calling myself a writer you know I I wouldn't have I wouldn't have done it was just you know this is this is how I'm making my money is how I'm making a living as I'm I'm doing it by writing um and it was really you know again you see seeing it in hard cover seeing it in hard cover it does seem to make a difference and that was again that was not a novel you know the first of those books that came out looking back knowing what you know now would you recommend to your younger self to consider yourself a writer much earlier than you did I think each person needs to figure out the language that's appropriate to each person and you know would would be my would be my short answer and so you know I I think you know very very often um you know I would say you know think of yourself as a writer you know think of yourself and I say this to you know my students the students I teach cve writing to at at University of North Florida you know think of yourself as a writer um you know just for personal from you know per personal temperament I don't know maybe it was growing up in the midwest I don't know what it is but but one doesn't for you know I I didn't want to forward that you know very much at all um you know I know people who describe themselves as novelists um I I typically would say no I I write Mysteries you know I'm a I'm a writer um you know just kind of the the planer language to that has always felt right to me um and so in my case no you know in my case no you know it's it's great to be able to you know do what what I'm doing but at the same time I you I guess that I'm not I'm not convinced that that the name that I put on myself um is going to make the books better and that's my goal you know my my my my goal is to put it there um but again I I'm I'm the first one to say whatever whatever turn you know I I think that there are very many people for whom it's very important from a very young age to say I'm a writer I'm a writer and and to kind of to to keep that that identity in mind um for me for me um the greater importance was to to write because if I thought of myself as a writer then I was thinking myself all right I've done it um you I've gotten where I want to go right more important to do it than to think about having done it or to wear it yeah you know I mean you know we we we can wear the costume or we can you know do the do the hard work or or and you know and I admire people who can do both you I admire people who can say all right I'm a writer and they can live the life of of a writer and they're getting to you know they're doing they're doing it every day and they you know increase their ability to write that's that's that's terrific you know just personally I I needed I needed to kind of step back get where I want to go I'm still not where I want to go but I'm getting there yeah let's talk about advice for a moment has there been any advice you've received from any source that has really made a difference for you in your writing sure to to um bits of advice and the the one is one that I probably didn't hear enough until I was already writing and Publishing um but it was in you know I I ended up I did it and it got me where I needed to go and that's that um every good writer is an excellent reader you know is is read often read widely pay attention to what you're reading and the thing that I add to the advice is just beyond you know reading is read at you know again here here I'm contradicting myself read as a writer you know read everything that that we read you know with an eye toward figuring out how how the writer did what she or he did um you know whe whether it's a successful book or a story or an unsuccessful one you know to pay attention you know what did this writer do where this writer did it and seemingly why and to what effect you know so so so read read read read read is is one side of it and the other one is one that that we often hear which is right right right right right um you know I am a believer in writing every day um and most of the writers I know who you know are say especially in say my my subfield of of writing um very very very few of them don't write every day and you know if that means a half an hour because that's all you can do great do it if that means you can you can set out a block of a few hours a couple hours a few hours do it but you know writing and writing every day eventually you've got a manuscript and then you know edit every day until you're done editing it and then write the next one um yeah right right right there's there's every excuse that I've ever heard for not writing um whether every day or at all every one of them has always been a good excuse you know I'm too busy with this I'm too busy with that every one of them has been absolutely and then the question is all right we all have the great excuses now are we going to write or not and so write which seems easier said than done right yeah it is yeah you've been on this writing Journey for a while now what have you found to be the biggest challenge you've had to face or overcome or put another way maybe your steepest learning curve boy that's a that's a tough one because you know I mean you know this especially if one is I mean there there are many ways to write and many good reasons for writing right you know if one is is looking to write because one wants to tell stories and one you know wants maybe whatever audience that that is out there that might even be you know one one's own self for for the audience you know whether we write for for publication self-publication or something like that um you know that that that's that's extraordinarily extraordinarily valuable type of thing now once one looks toward you know what we now call traditional publishing you know we we enter into we enter into you know a whole additional kind of a a realm of the uncertainties and and everything else about you know about the process um you know writing isn't for the faint of heart you know I think that that's a kind of a generalization you know we can you know whatever it is we're digging in deep or we're looking to tell a story that takes a lot of time a lot of effort um and then once it's out there you it's out of our hands anybody who reads it you know whether they like it or not that's not up us up up to us and so you know I wouldn't view those as challenges myself but what I did view as a challenge in the whole process was getting to the point you know and this is part of the reason that I think um you know I needed personally I needed the time that that it took me to get you know to the point of publishing the novels is is it took me a while to to be able to put my writing in other people's hands and not take it hard if if they looked at it and they said no no no no this will never do um or if they you know basically making myself public making public was was a very difficult thing for me to do I don't I don't have writer block which I know a lot of people do but it's not something that I have I have had but you know kind of the block early on you know early on was very much putting that writing into somebody else's hands and being able to have them read it rigorously um and and give me the feedback that um they gave me and and make make it useful um you know very very few writers write the perfect draft even if it's the eighth draft or the 10th draft or the 30th draft very few do and so you know we go through the editing process we you know even if say we're writing for a small audience you know we we put it in their hands and they say well you know this is how it worked or this is how it didn't work so once we're getting Beyond writing for ourselves um that's just uh that's an absolute part of it and and I I think that that is a that is a difficult kind of a thing um but you know I remember very very precisely the moment when I was able to um you know take that kind of harsh rigorous criticism and make use of it I think that that's hard to do yeah it is what about let's say the flip side of this what has been the best part of this writing Journey for you um the the the best part the best part I think is is again just the I mean I I I love telling stories you know again that was you know as my kids got older um you know beyond those first couple of years you know they they began to love stories and I be you know I loved you know the time then when we would read read books together um when we would you know when I'd make up stories for them um and just the pleasure that I think that we take in in going from a beginning through a middle to an end of a story um whether it's our own story or somebody else's um you know there there's an immense satisfaction in that for me and you know so I I'm I'm able to spend you know hours and hours and hours a day you know working through a small passage of a book that I'm writing um in ways that you know you know couple of my kids are you know they they can spend you know hours and hours and hours looking at you know say some kind of a mathematical or some kind of uh engineering or some kind of biological question that that you know I I can look at and you know for the first 15 minutes I can say okay I can work through this and work through this but if I don't get to the answer you know no you know it's gone but but I just get deeper pleasure you know the more that I work into it um and so I think it all has to do with figuring out how to put things together and take them apart and put them back together again that's a kind of a nebulous way of of describing you know a process but it really is you know I guess you know what what is the you know you know what is the great part is you know learning and loving the the process and you know being willing I I I've I've written manuscripts that have taken me a year to write and they're sitting in a drawer and one day they will burn in a heap somewhere because they just didn't work out but they were great experiences I don't I don't resent having spent that year well there's something magical about that process isn't it that's hard to sort of capture or explain yeah yeah you know it's um you know I I think that you know undoubtedly somebody could explain it but but I I won't try to um but I think you know it has to do with with again we we live you know we if there's nothing else we know from the past year or so is that we live in a universe that can throw the unexpected at us um that can that can be chaotic that can give us you know enormous challenges many of which cannot be overcome immediately or maybe at all and guess what you can tell a story in which you deal with that one way or another you know you can choose not to to make it work out you can also choose to make it work out so you know happy ending unhappy ending you know indeterminate ending you know this is one of the few places where we have a certain degree of control and and so yeah we can put the pieces together we can put the you know we can make a clock right you've got a lot going on and more books coming out if people want to stay up toate with what's happening books new releases new projects Etc where should they go to find you and find that information the best place probably to check for you know upcoming events upcoming books these kinds of things is through my website which is www Michael online.com that's m c h a l w l y online.com um and there I I put up new new book news and events you my my calendar my event calendar isn't always up to date um but but I try to right try to regularly get that up um also on Facebook I I I don't really use Twitter or or Instagram very much but definitely Facebook um you know my my my Facebook is is public and you know I'm always happy to uh to have people friend um and so if you want to check me out that way um again recent reviews recent events recent releases those kinds of things you know I tend to mention there and if anybody's interested in purchasing a copy of Lucky Bones your newest one um or any of the books that you've written where's the best place for them to go to buy them well the the the easiest place um as it as is the case for I think everybody right now is any of the online purveyors you know whether that's um indiebound or Amazon or barn and Noble or any of the other kinds of places um they're they're all most even of my backlists is available there some of my earliest books are are no longer I I don't know if they're there in new copies I don't think that those are going to be there but you can find them otherwise um but yeah th those would be the easiest places um you know there are plent bookstores around that that also have them if anybody is interested in a signed copy I guess I would recommend either um you can Google chamblin's book mine um in Jacksonville Florida or San Marco books in Jacksonville Florida which is where I live now um and they're all they're they're all able to do inscribed copies very nice Michael I want to thank you very much for joining me today on the podcast and and congratulations on Lucky Bones your newest one and also headcase which we'll look forward to in the US in April and congratulations on everything you've accomplished so far in your writing journey and best of luck with the rest of it to come thank you so much Stacy I really enjoyed talking with [Music] you the Bookshop at the end of the internet is a podcast dedicated to helping Book Lovers discover new Authors like any good book shop this podcast features a wide variety of books by the equally varied and interesting authors who felt compelled to write them this podcast gives you a chance to meet these wonderful 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