Battles for Freedom You Need to Know with Greg Joseph

hello and welcome back here to on the line for our next episode uh this interview is going to be with uh Mr Greg Joseph and this interview is going to be a little bit different but we also want to hear your feedback on this interview because uh normally we talk a little bit more on theological issues maybe looking at culture here we're going to be talking with a good friend of mine who's also a renowned lawyer he's done some really big cases you're going to hear about some of them in this interview so uh two things with Greg first off uh he's got some great insights into the lead system and some of the really important battles that are taking place that's what he's going to focus on today but second with that insight into some of the legal battles that are going on through the United States also when it comes to both Liberty and religious liberty he also has some really good insights on just the current events and things that are going on so in this interview you're going to hear some uh very interesting legal cases that he can provide some great insights on very fascinating but what we're interested of hearing from you is whether or not uh we can continue this type of interview you probably once every 3 or four months so do it kind of quarterly and just have Greg on to talk about current events so less of a theological Focus although most of our videos will of course continue to do that um but want to hear your feedback on if you'd be interested in that and that will help us understand if we should maybe do it twice a year four times a year six times a year something like that so we appreciate your feedback and as always we also appreciate the 3 seconds it takes to like this video which really helps the YouTube algorithm so that these videos can get out in front of many more people we appreciate all the support and uh [Music] enjoy all right Greg Joseph how are you doing I'm doing great glad to be here yeah yeah so I've I've got to lead off with the first question okay um because I think it's one of the most fascinating things about you right so when you're at work right over here in your office uh what what do you sit at right uh I sit at a uh towering uh lumbering gigantic desk that once belonged to Brock Lesnar the uh WWE Superstar former wrestler from Minnesota maybe one of the best freak athletes yeah he is absolutely a freak the guy is just gigantic uh yeah I wound up with it I it was a Facebook buy I didn't know it was his but just as we were loading it into the back of the truck the guy said hey you know what's funny about this desk I said what's that he goes this is Brock Lesnar's desk said Brock Lesnar he said yeah yeah I helped him move a few years ago I knew him from high school and yeah he just said I don't want to deal with the thing anymore you keep it and so anyway yeah now I got desk yeah that thing's not gonna break no no not going to break no and I I think about him every time I sit down to type yeah so yeah which right well one one Brock Lesnar I was I was I forget what I was I reading this or listening to it but he I don't know how much he weighs probably 370 or something the guy's a massive animal he can jump he can stand still and he can jump from a standstill 10 feet you're kidding me no and his 40 time was something like a 44 or 4 five really yeah I mean it was it was well under five seconds so can you just imagine like it being in combat against someone who can weigh 370 pounds and can cover 10 ft in a leap no I mean I cannot imagine running the other direction yeah I'm I'm out yeah like you win but you now have his desk I have his desk yeah that's got to get me somewhere right I mean that's why we brought you on I don't know what else we're going to talk about appreciate the honesty yeah that's good I I suspect it as much but yeah yeah anyway but but it is fitting right because I mean what you're doing um so your lawyer Y and you've kind of found a very Niche area and in many ways you're you are fighting against um in a very important way a lot of the forces that are at work that are trying to undermine the good and the true things things that we've inherited and that we value as Christians or just as good citizens and you're on the front lines in areas that I want everyone to understand what those battles look like which is why not Brock Lesnar that's why I wanted to have this conversation but if you can just tell our listeners a little bit about what you do in that Niche that you found that you're that you're operating now as a lawyer sure um so I began as as a public defender actually I prosecuted very briefly but then began as a public defender um maybe it was just that I was I was was winning too often and I liked to lose more frequently so I began suing governments um instead of Defending that's not that's not true um I still do I still do uh Defense work um a lot of my practice still criminal defense but about seven years ago um I got involved with a group of guys who were over in Bloomington and uh that's like South Minneapolis you're right South Minneapolis sure yep um it's I think it's technically like the third biggest city in Minnesota or the fourth you know behind Minneapolis St Paul okay um anyway yeah it's an inner ring suburb and um well I mean yeah I'll just let you know we my wife and I lived in Bloomington and we got notice one day that the city was going to be uh switching over to organize trash collection um okay whatever you know um but they were going to displace the the free market in trash Hong and you know I kind of like to have the ability if my price gets too high I like to call a different hauler and say hey can you can you beat this guy and sure enough people were willing and competition it's amazing how that works you know um so I thought I I don't I don't really want this to happen so I wonder what I can do to to stop it so I went to a city council meeting and I met a group of guys who were just neighborhood guys you know and um anyway the that case suing Bloomington um turned into two trips to the Minnesota Supreme Court and uh I didn't know what to expect at first I didn't know what I was doing I kind of learned on the Fly and anyway that was 7 years ago and since then I I have this weird little corner of the law where I sue a lot of cities so yeah it's it's been tons of fun and I I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be like I feel like I'm I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing you know for for God and for the state and for me and it just it feels right I know you shared different cases with me right we we had handful of conversations and each case always shocks me at just kind of the coordinated effort that that people go to in order to undermine people's rights and also just to bring kind of just absurdity right into into people's lives and into the public sphere so I mean and you you are battling against those in so many different ways so I mean I don't know if you can just kind of walk us through what are some cases that that listeners should know of just kind of glimpses into these things are actually going on and these things are very important for regular life right so when you when you asked me to be on um the first thing I thought of uh was what happened in St Paul this just this past election cycle okay so last year the legislature well let me back up a little bit so cities in Minnesota okay um they like their taxes okay they they love to raise taxes on folks for any reason or no reason okay I'm being broad but you know come on so um you know St Paul wanted to raise a a sales tax okay along with I think 33 other cities and and uh counties across Minnesota well they can't do that on their own okay so they have to have special permission from the legislature so the legislature last spring passed this Big Raft okay that authorized all these different counties and cities to raise special sales taxes okay sales and use tax so but there was one catch and the catch was you had to get approval from the voters okay so and I think it had to happen within the next two years after the law passed or something like that so um St Paul said okay uh well that means we got to ask the voters so we got to draft a question to present to the voters so the ballot question they put together okay was um the first part was pretty simple it was shall the city of St Paul Levy a 1% I think it was 1% might have been three quarters I think it was 1% 1% sales and use tax to fund City ities and parks in the city of St Paul they had to tell you how long the tax would be in place okay which the reality is forever okay but they said 20 years all right because at the end of 20 years taxes don't go away taxes just they like zombies okay anyway so after 20 years okay um they expect to raise a billion dollars for roads and and and bridges and parks in the city okay um so the ballot question that the city council draft okay was shall the city of St Paul raise a 1% sales and use tax to fund roads and bridges and Parks okay easy enough a yes vote okay means that a new 1% sales and use tax will be instituted in the city of St Paul to fund roads and Bron Parks okay a no vote means that roads and bridges and Parks will be funded by other local sources primarily through an increase in your property taxes which was not what they were supposed to do well it's like so the choice that the taxpayer has is do you want it to come out of your left pocket or your right pocket do you want a raise in your property tax or do you want a raise in this new sales tax okay well the problem is of course that the choice is supposed to be between do you want a 1% Sal and Ed tax or do you not want a 1% sales and Ed tax not we're going to get you coming or going and we're either going to take it out of that pocket or that pocket What's it gonna be okay so um my client okay tremendous advocate for the people of St Paul anyway I've done some work with him in the past as well um he sued prosay he sued the city of St Paul Pro and said this this doesn't fly this is a scam you're not giving people a meaningful choice um and unfortunately it didn't go his way you know at district court and so then he called me and we um we petitioned the Supreme Court for review Minnesota Supreme Court for review it was sort of a hair on fire thing because we had a very short window before the language had to go to the Secretary of State um and they picked up the case and then it was only a day or two later that the city of St Paul reconvened and said well maybe take a second look at this language and uh and so they did so they changed it and made it a straight up or down vat MH and uh so I'd love to say the voters rejected the new tax they didn't but like that part's Beyond My Control right you know but I mean but the point is you know that that somebody would would do that you know that that a city council the city government would do that try to say that's not a choice you know I mean it's a sham yeah you know so anyway that's that's the sort of thing I do you know and it's a like I said it's a really weird corner of the law but yeah I mean you could find examples that all over the place yeah so yeah I mean just on the surface that's obviously an absurd right so like they knew what they were doing yeah and they were completely abusing the system and point being if there's not checks and balances on those things if there's not a push back then yeah that's ridiculous ridiculous right and actually so Bel tramy County which is bigi okay okay up north yep they got a new jail Okay so they had to fund the new jail right so legislature gave them a special dispensation to raise the the sales and use tax and miji well Bel trammy County cont must have contacted St Paul okay because the ballot language that they put on their ballot was either you fund the new jail or we're going to take it out of your property taxes and unfortunately the timing was such it happened so quickly that you know we nobody called I mean it was just nobody thought about it M and suddenly there it is on the ballot and I think the final numbers it was more than 90% I want to say it was 93% voted in favor of the new sales tax and only 7% voted to raise their own property tax it's just the confusing way that they were write it up right and it's it's Kryptonite you know because people think like at least with a sales tax you can avoid purchases in the city and you know drive or in the county and you know drive a few miles over yeah but with the property tax so a lot of these things they creep through yeah yeah what was the um you also you mentioned one um you said it might get overturned here recent in the near future possibly over the next couple months right it's being looked at I think you said um but it had to do with it was kind of a backd door way that organizations uh Federal organizations right like FBI CIA that they can pass laws that are that don't go through the judicial system right and that a lot of things get get passed through um I don't know if you can speak to that one mhm yep sure so the case was argued it was only about a week and a half ago give or take uh but it's it was two separate cases that the US Supreme Court Consolidated it was uh uh ler brigh versus Rondo was one of them the second one was uh Relentless I think it was called but I'm fairly certain that both were the names of fishing boats okay okay and um what's going on is since 198 before we've had a case on the books um called Chevron I think it was Chevron versus natural resource defense Council okay and um the Supreme Court held in that case in 1984 okay that if the legislature okay if Congress passes a law and it doesn't it doesn't address precisely the scenario that's presented okay then the executive branch agency can fill in the blanks so they can kind of write their own law they have the authority has been now handed over to them right and not only does the executive branch agency now have authority to to fill in the gaps okay fill in the blanks whatever it is not only that okay but the courts actually give difference to whatever the executive agency decided okay so I mean you can think of a lot of examples where that would matter because let's face I mean legislators can't think of every in andout of every single law they come up with right and so these executive agencies would just fill in the blanks and and come up with some policy to address that particular set of circumstances and like the rationale behind it was well these these guys are experts they're trained in their field and they know better than you do so let's just we'll defer to them well the problem with that is over these last 40 years you know believe it or not you know seemingly every interpretation of every rule EX ceded to you know more government power yeah you know and these agencies would grow and grow and grow and you know like we don't get any say in those things I mean we don't get to go to the agency or vote for somebody to change what that policy is going to be because that's just an executive branch agency so that falls under whoever the president's going to be so there's nothing we can do to change those things so that's been in place for 40 years um and depending on your perspective okay I mean from the liberty-minded perspective from the small government perspective okay it's been very destructive um we've lost a lot of power to executive agencies um so this this case that was argued a week and a half ago um was about a fishing boat two fishing boats and the I think it was fisheries and wildlife maybe probably okay was the executive agency and they had created a uh a regulation to say that those fishing boats have to have room for a federal government employee they have to allow the government employee to be on the fishing boat with them to see if there's if they're following the law if they're fish catching the number of fish that they're supposed to be and fishing in the areas they're supposed to be fishing in or you know um and so the owner of the fishing boat said well we we got like five spots you know and we don't have a lot of extra food and room and I mean can that clean fish or no because like we need help with that kind of stuff yeah that's 20% of the people on the boat right yeah right and and the executive agency said that sorry you know no that's what our regulation says and the courts defer the courts say well you know you know best so I guess so this was not a law that was discussed in courtrooms and you know they they decided that this was the right judicial thing this is something that this organization on the side push through because that was according that aligned with their agenda and there was no real due process with this and therefore all of a sudden you got individuals that are in a really difficult situation where 20% of our Workforce is now gone because this agency just came in and said you have to adapt to our way of doing things exactly exactly and no recourse no meaningful recourse so um they litigated these two fishing boats you know and the the US Supreme Court Consolidated the cases and heard it and it's it's looking like I mean fingers crossed you know who knows um oral arguments I think were three hours a week and a half ago but it's looking like that the court is is seriously considering doing away with the Chevron Doctrine doing away with Chevron Defence which means you know these cases are going to be interpreted by the courts you know rather than the executive agencies it does mean I mean it does mean that the legislature is going to have to be a little bit more specific when they draft some of these laws okay so they might actually have to put more time in um working on you know laws and stuff which is what they're supposed to be doing um so but yeah I mean it would be for liberty-minded people it's a great thing and uh we'll see I mean US Supreme Court's on their own time you know you never know what they're going to do but yeah it's favorable you know so it's it's leaning in the right direction yeah because for the hearer there they might say well I don't own a fishing bow why does that affect me but that kind of principle and that way of doing things that's going to affect not just a fishing industry right this can affect so many different Industries and it can affect you know from someone who is coming at it from a Christian perspective um if there's going to be things that would be enforced on let's say church or let's just say whether or not what a Christian can do in their own home or things like that that they should have the freedom in order to do um if those things get dealt with in the court we have to trust some of that system but if these things can be done on the side by institutions that have no checks and balances and no control we don't have any say in that really does endanger not just the fishing industry but it can endanger I mean almost any industry right name it education agriculture you name it absolutely it's a it's it's any executive agency you could think of that's how broad this is do you know if this is I mean I'm sure it has do you know any specifics of of maybe that happening in the educational realm because that's one where I can see a huge red flag in danger too many times to count too many now I can I point you to specific example no but that's because there really aren't any I mean people don't have you know you don't get recourse in in the courts you know you only get limited access to the courts to have them interpret these things because of Chevron Defence you know so yeah it's it's it's G to be very big yeah be very it'll change a lot of things in Washington yeah so so what are some other things that you've seen as you just watch kind of uh governmental overreach or just groups of individuals that have their own specific you know motivations have you seen cases or examples where um where these things are affecting like the educational system or or other areas that we should be concerned of as Christians yeah um I mentioned before we started talking about um you know crown College there's a case involving Crown college right now I think it's low versus walls I think it is which is a Christian College here in Minnesota right yep yep thank you and um my colleague uh James dicki my friend at at Upper Midwest Law Center I'm I'm of councel for them kind of outside Council I do some work on some cases with them from time to time they're a pro Liberty pro- Freedom organization and uh what happened was that the state changed the laws as it pertains to getting high school credit at colleges and so because Crown College is a is a Christian College they're no longer giving that option to to gain college credit you know for high school students um so yeah I mean it's it's happening um I think that one I'm not sure what stage of litigation that that one's at right now but um yeah it's it it's it's happening quickly um the other thing I mentioned to you was um there's a a case out of northern Minnesota that's really interesting that was filed Just A Week Ago um a northern Minnesota case uh involving a farmer and the the state had set up a uh it's called nistler versus walls I think it is the state had set up a uh a program okay where New farmers people who wanted to start their own family farm could get a grant could get a state Grant of up to 15,000 MH and um you had to be a first-time farmer you had to have earned less than $250,000 the year before um you had to actively Farm the the land that they gave you the grant to purchase okay um so that but then preference was given to certain preferred People based on race based on gender based on on sexual preference okay those groups were were favored over those who did those yeah exactly right so the plain if in that case applied for the $155,000 grant um and ultimately was denied because he wasn't the right skin color and because he wasn't the right gender yeah and um so it's a it's a 1983 suit it's a 14th Amendment you know equal protection suit and that was just filed last week uh maybe a week before last in Minnesota District Court yeah so yeah I mean there's there are good people who are fighting the good fight in Minnesota and we have we absolutely have cause for optimism not just Minnesota Nationwide yeah people people are waking up to things very very quickly now and uh I think we've turned the corner I think there's a lot of cause for optimism but that's good yeah yeah yeah what about with your case with um I mean I can say the name right of who you represent yeah so Dr Scott Jensen right he was uh he ran for governor here in Minnesota and you defended him or you're defending him right now correct um can you walk us through what what took place there sure um so yeah uh speaking of government overreach yeah um so the government is allowed to regulate the practice of medicine okay but it's not allowed to regulate speech so um with that in mind okay um Scott was a state senator from this part of the state from Carver County and um he became a pretty prominent voice when it came to the covid lockdowns and and restrictions and masks and all that sort of thing yeah he's also a family physician here um so in early 2020 uh right about the time the covid mandates began to roll out um Scott was a very vocal very vocal critic of of the executive branch solution to the problem right which how did that manifest here um the executive branch solution mask mandates uh there were uh restrictions on travel um you you couldn't uh I'm trying to think what sort of lockdowns there were um there were businesses that were shut down okay um forced closures of restaurants and bars and things like that um aside from the whole stickers on the floor thing which never made any sense to me yeah plexiglass and 2x4 is okay the whole whatever you know which I don't know if it was the case here but I know um in Wyoming I think it was W no it was in Minnesota I believe because it was uh someone we've had on the show before Ryan mcferson okay he lived close to the Iowa border so he's down in I think Mano and he said that at the time the churches by the government were mandated to stay closed and at the same time liquor stores and Planned Parenthood were both allowed to stay open corre right so he would he would drive down to Iowa which had different rules and go to church there and in the process he had to drive on Sunday morning past open Planned Parenthood and open liquor store but he couldn't go to his local church without his local church being persecuted right so this is where this is where that kind of overreach uh is dangerous right right and therefore fighting and defending these types of things they are important because that's once again just ludicrous right it's crazy yeah reminds me my dad told me a story Northern Minnesota his church in northern Minnesota he told me a story about pulling into the parking lot and all so this is fantastic by that I mean absurd so um the vehicles didn't park in in each stall okay they left one stall between each other by rule okay and so they parked one stall apart and then the pastor had one of those devices where you can broadcast on Whatever frequency is 87.9 or whatever it was okay and he stood on one end of the parking lot and broadcasted and all the cars tuned in to 87.9 on their radio so that way there wouldn't be any any face to-face contact everybody's six feet apart even in their cars and law enforcement came and broke it up did they really yeah not too dangerous yeah not okay yeah of course too risky but you can go down the street and have an abortion at PL parthood no big deal right right and go to Target as long as you Saran Wrap off every other aisle yeah that's okay yeah safety MH insane um anyway where was I with that okay sorry so so Scott was a very vocal critic at this point okay of of the governor's solution okay to the problem so um he uh made some media appearances okay and the Department of Health in Minnesota changed its guidance about what constitutes a covid death and what doesn't constitute a covid death okay um but Scott you know made his voice heard and he wound up um getting some national attention he was on Fox News and whatever and made some comments and um saying hey I I don't I don't agree I don't think this is necessary I don't think it's safe and um specifically with regard to the death certificates and so okay um the guidance changed and he he called out what he thought was was wrong you know and time has proven him right by the way um nevertheless so it wasn't long after he left the senate in early 2020 that he got his first complaint by the board of medical practice and they said hey we saw you made these comments to this newspaper or this TV station or you posted this on social media um we we suspect this might be a violation of your license to practice medicine so we we want to respond resp you need to give us a written response how do you respond to these allegations and so he kind of said uh you know he knew there was something wrong okay but maybe he couldn't quite put his finger on it but you know the question is where does practicing medicine end and where does speech begin okay so that was the first complaint he put together a a long response to that took a lot of time to prepare his response a lot of times okay I mean because let's face it it's your livelihood right this is your job been a family physician for a long long time um and that's his first Passion always has been MH so he put his response together and uh the complaint was dismissed okay within a couple of months I think it took two or three months and the next complaint showed up same thing you said this to this TV station you said this to the newspaper you posted this on your social media page and uh put together response number two um then it happened again that one was dismissed same thing happened again the third time this time it was for signing his name onto a lawsuit in Alabama a federal lawsuit in Alabama connected to the requiring kids to take the covid shots they were requiring that in Alabama right were they really it was it was under consideration okay okay and I'm not sure the stage that it was at exactly in Alabama but this lawsuit Scott had submitted an affidavit connected to this lawsuit okay saying hey let's just be careful here you know pump the braks let's think about what we're doing before we do it yeah and so the Minnesota Board of Medical Practice said we understand that you signed your name onto a lawsuit and you're trying to prevent children from getting you know life m whatever right and so what's your response to that and so at this point it's like okay so now he's been investigated a couple times for Pure speech MH and now like there's the there's the weird Clause okay in the First Amendment about petitioning the government for redress of grievances what does that mean it means the right to sue so now the new investigation is over a lawsuit putting your name on a lawsuit that's not practicing medicine that's not even close to practicing medicine okay um so he responded that one was dismissed then we get a fourth one okay and again these are all none of these involve the practice of medicine okay that one was dismissed and ultimately there was a fifth complaint that was brought against them and the fifth and final complaint I think came in let's see I think it came in January of last year okay but the the second last complaint was held open for the entirety of his campaign for governor on purpose you can't say but let me put it this way okay there are two statutes one says that any complaint that the board of Medical Practice gets has to be resolved within I believe it's three months might be four okay um or sorry that's wrong they have to give a status update they have to tell them okay here's where we are with it it's still open we're working on it we'll let you know the second statute says that all complaints have to be resolved within a year okay this was held open the complaint was commenced in November or December of 21 MH and held open all the way through campaign season which he's running for governor again which he's running for governor all the way through 2022 and nothing happened until after the campaign after the election was over in early 2023 well I'm guessing it was dismissed so no the last one he received a notice of conference where they revived all of the previously dismissed complaints then added a yeah and then added a couple more so um and that's when that's when Scott called me and uh the two of us sat down and he showed me this and immediately I was like wait a minute what you're kidding me I mean this isn't not only is this not practice of medicine okay but these are these are core speech issues the reason the framers did this with the first amendment is to protect exactly these rights the right to challenge your government the right to question your government about exactly these things was to protect people like Scott and that's exactly what they went after so the last set I think it was 18 total complaints okay and uh 18 18 that he'd received now we know where those complaints came from or some of the complaints came from um Facebook posts okay the these were like we don't you know it's still bearing itself out but these were in the nature of of political criticisms these weren't none of these were from patients not one not one patient filed a complaint against Scott um so these were all critiques of his core protected First Amendment rights so um that was the action against his license okay and we we had the hearing in front of the board of Medical Practice the administrative hearing okay um or the the internal Hearing in front of the board and uh and all 18 of those we got dismissed um and then last summer okay last June we made the decision okay that we were going to go on the offense and we were going to call him out and say this is wrong you can't do this to people particularly when you're in the middle of a political campaign for governor um but we just made the decision that we can't let him get away with this yeah so we sued under 1983 for First Amendment violations um and so uh we sued the board of medical practice and a number of its members and uh right now the case is the uh state made a motion to dismiss so the Attorney General's office represents uh the board of medical practice so they made a motion to dismiss the case like last uh maybe August okay we had the hearing in uh I believe it was December early December and right now we're waiting so it's on the judge's desk right now he's deciding whether they're going to dismiss you have uh some little issues with like immunity under certain circumstances the members of the board get immunity under certain circumstances okay not these okay that's our argument um but yeah so it's it's on his desk right now so we'll see how it goes but it's it's you know it's nuanced okay because you look at the set of circumstances and you think well but he's a doctor okay and this this was their position this was the board position okay but you're a doctor and so you have to be saying the right things to people who listen to you because you have a big platform right you have this social media platform and you're being interviewed you know by various media Outlets so what you have what you say has to be responsible because what if someone listens to what you say and because they didn't wear a mask they get Co and die okay or what if someone someone doesn't listen to you or someone someone thinks what you're giving is advice and refrain from doing X which would have saved their life okay in other words isn't there a higher standard that applies because you're a doctor okay and the answer is no I mean Supreme Court precedent is really clear there's no separate category for professional speech there's either speech or there's practice of medicine but there is nothing in between there is no professional speech standard very well settled so it doesn't matter that he has a medical license you don't surrender your right to free speech when you become a doctor or a lawyer or have any other professional license in Minnesota you're not the property of the board of medical practice so you your first amendment rights are protected more so than they've ever been when you make comments as a doctor public comments concerning medicine or government policy connected to Medicine yeah which really that's what it was it was in the nature of a political criticism yeah it's not you're not treating anyone there's no Nexus between the patient and the doctor mhm it's pure public political speech yeah so well I mean two thoughts there I mean one is you you said it earlier time has shown that actually the kind of things he was saying have actually been proven right right um so are they concerned with people who said things that time has proven to be wrong but was were popular at the time right so if you go back to whenever he's speaking in 2020 2021 most of I I don't most of the people that were on that had a public platform right that were speaking to large numbers of people which is that's their concern right time is proven that what they said was wrong so are they also reacting against those people or are those people immune because they went with what was popular at the time we both know the answer to that yeah and right and so it's funny you mention that because one of the counts of our complaints was he's he's a class of one it's an equal protection violation because he's a class of one they went after him because he espoused this viewpoint but they did go after anyone else for espousing a contrary Viewpoint that is to say they didn't investigate anyone for speaking the preferred speech okay the narrative that the government was advancing they weren't investiga it was this so it was pure content-based restrictions yeah which means it triggers strict scrutiny I mean these are are fundamental core freedoms so yeah great question because that seems like the chief danger that applies to many other circumstances as well right is that the way the law is supposed to work is it's the law is supposed to be some kind of representation of objectivity right and we all are supposed to I mean it's not okay to go kill your neighbor because you're angry at him like that's an objective statement that we have and the law backs that and therefore no matter if it's no matter who you are no matter what your skin color is no matter what you can't go do that right so that's the objectivity right so the goal in this area should also be some kind of objectivity but what you're painting is that what they're they're not looking for objectivity or overtime figuring out what is right they're kind of making they're saying we have agreed that this is right and that's wrong we're not submitting to some kind of scientific fact right and then and then they're using that as a weapon to Target someone who disagrees with and that can be used in any sphere that can be used in an educational sphere it can certainly be used in a church sphere where they can say you know I mean marriage is an example right where we've we've redefined the definition of marriage and that's changed just in you know the last what 10 15 years right um so now that that has changed and now they can use that as a weapon against you know anyone who's a Christian who might want to run for office certainly they might Target that individual or if they want to they can wield that against a cak maker right and that's that's that's an abuse of government over oversight absolutely yeah it's it's a it's a content-based restriction okay and the bottom line is okay even if Scott were completely wrong even if the advice that that he were given giving people was totally off base okay even if he was lying about it mhhm it's still protected it's protected core speech that's why it's there because the founding fathers recognize the danger in letting government decide which speech is AC is acceptable and which speech isn't acceptable okay um so the fact that he was espousing and some freedoms are really easy to protect you know the the freedoms that the freedom to go volunteer okay that one's an easy one you know well I want to go volunteer at the soup kitchen I want to no problem you can do that okay um the freedom to eat too many Crispy Cream Donuts the freedoms that can be harmful for you okay those are the ones that really matter those are the ones you have to protect you know um again as it turned out in this case okay what Scott was saying wasn't harming people at all there was nothing harmful okay it was purely political attacks against them but nevertheless even if it were if it's content-based it's strict scrutiny mhm so it's Scott the only person who who has this happened to them absolutely not yeah and it makes you wonder I mean if you know this was done to someone that prominent who was running for governor how many Physicians across Minnesota just kept their mouth shut you know I mean before I'll tell you I mean before he made the decision to run for governor okay he he talked to his wife it wasn't an easy decision to make okay and when he made the decision he had already been through through a couple of these crazy investigations okay um but when he made the decision to run he talk to his wife and he said hey you know um my fallback at least will be I can still practice medicine you know and um then he announced and it was not long after that where he got complaint number four you know it's like okay well you know how how many people I mean it it took courage to do that on his part but how many doctors just kept their mouth shut you know um I don't know the answer to that the the board probably does yeah you know but I don't so yeah yeah so you you mentioned another case that you're doing recently um that might be going to Supreme Court was it this week does do that rhyme with this one next week yeah um I mean we don't have to jump to a completely different area I think there's more to explore here as well but it's yeah it's it's not quite related to this one um it's government overreach okay um and I'm defending a city council member up in Columbia Heights um it's uh it it it's it's overreach yes but it's a different it's it's not really a constitutional question I mean it sort of tangentially is but it's more um you have uh it's sort of a direct democracy thing mhm so in Minnesota you have um you initiative and referendum that ring a bell initiative referendum recall okay basically what they are are um different ways where voters can enact legislation themselves they can go around the city council and they can bring about new laws in their City okay so we have uh in Minnesota we have two types of cities we have Charter cities and statutory cities okay all the biggest cities in Minnesota are Charter cities and it Charter cities kind of operate on their own Constitution okay that's their own Charter it's it's sort of neutered okay they don't have as much power as they used to have because over the years it's kind of been gradually eroded by the courts okay nevertheless okay those are the two types of cities and what sets them apart are these three ideas of initiative referendum and recall so initiative is the ability for voters to get together gather enough signatures okay and bring about a change in legislation so um if they don't like something they can go to go to t-ball tournaments and soccer tournaments and softball tournaments and stand on street corners and you know uh whatever collect signatures and say we think that there should be a 10 p.m curfew in the city of you know Bloomington wherever it is okay um and if they can collect enough signatures okay and if enough people agree with with them then that petition goes to the city government and it goes around the city council and it goes directly to a vote okay and if enough of the city agrees then that initiative becomes a new ordinance in that City and that's what it is okay referendum is when the city council passes something and the voters have a set amount of time usually it's around 30 days give or take and um if the voters don't like what the city council passed same thing go collect some signatures say hey we think they're wrong about this then that also goes around the city council assuming procedural sufficiency um you know whatever assuming that the law is not constitu or it's not unconstitutional okay it goes around the city council goes straight to the voters if the voters agree then the law goes away it's a referendum yeah okay it undoes what the city council did um if they don't agree then you know the petitioners lose and then the third one is recall and that is when you elect someone okay and they commit malfeasance in office and that the term matters because malfeasance means something you don't just get to make up you know what you think is malfeasance okay um the courts have interpreted that over the years all right and it matters because that's one of the things being litigated you know next week at okay Minnesota Supreme Court is this idea of Malin okay um anyway if you same thing collect enough signatures then you can recall kick them out of office yeah okay so as you can imagine okay voters challenging the authority of city councils it's not received very well because City councils like any other government doesn't like someone who tests their power right um and not every Charter city has all these rights for their people okay Minneapolis uh doesn't have initiative rights okay you can't can't do it I don't believe they have referendum either okay so it's nominally a charter City but it's sort of a you know soft Charter City okay um so but the one next week I represent a city council member up in Columbia Heights okay and um the easiest way to think of it is that um the the rest of the city council is by and large ideologically opposed to her okay um so they they took something that that happened that she was alleged to have done and they blew it up into malens and uh a group of of residents up there put together a petition and uh thought they were doing it the way they were supposed to do it there were procedural mistakes so part of the suit is about that but the heart of it really is that they didn't accuse her of malfeasance okay but the rest of the city council overlooked that and the mayor and said well yeah we don't know whether this is malfeasance or not but you know what there's enough signatures there and we're going to hold the election anyway really right because if they accuse then you have to prove that that actually took place right right malas has to be alleged right okay so you at least the conduct that they describe in this petition has to constitute malfeasance if true okay what's malfeasance Commission of a crime okay not not in misdemeanor necessarily M okay but Commission of a serious crime a felony in office okay bribery all right uh theft uh the things you'd think of betrayal of Public public trust okay but it has to be Mal in office okay it has to be connected to your duties as a city councilman basically you're abusing your position precisely okay yep that that is the Nate that's Malin okay this involved a single private phone call okay that was placed supposedly from my client to someone else who was running for city council the year prior one phone call nobody else would have heard about the phone call if it weren't for the rest of the city council publicizing thing right yeah so the question is how is it malfant in office if you're making a private call in the evening even if she did do it okay anyway so my argument was that malfant wasn't alleged because that conduct doesn't constitute malens office okay um to date the city hasn't argued that it does constitute Mal phases okay but the easiest way to think about it is this is what weaponized government looks like I mean the other council members ganged up some of them helped to circulate the signature pages okay um they ganged up on her and they voted and now we've got an election and she's looking at being recalled from office for something that has nothing to do with malfis and is rif with proceed cedural defects M um but because she was outnumbered 4 to one well the election got called yeah and so uh we sued to try to stop the election and so uh the hearings next week the election scheduled for February 13th so today's Wednesday so a little less than two weeks from today the election is scheduled to take place so early voting's already begun yeah um but I assume by the time this probably airs this will all be over with okay yeah um but we basically sued to stop the election to say this isn't malfeasance and there's procedural problems don't do this guys just stop but anyway that's a mess yes it's a mess yeah right it's a mess yeah um yeah I mean I could go into more detail but you know the legislature wrote a statute that says you know this this form is the form this is a tangent but this form is the form that you have to use when you collect signatures on these petitions it has to have a line for this it has to have this information it's got to have a date it has to have a oath an O it says you're only signing this once you understand what this is about um you have to have your city you have to have your county of residents I think it is 10 lines per page etc etc the legislature said this applies to all elections all petitions for all elections in the state of Minnesota the secretary is empowered to make this rule that applies to every and everybody okay then the Secretary of State puts together the regulation 12 or 13 different requirements for each form each petition page but the charter City being Columbia Heights that's who we're we're suing against here has its own set of rules it says we don't need to have a date on the signature page all you have to do is sign it and then you put your address and we call it a day so that's what they did so the the signers of the petition weren't at fault they did what they thought they were supposed to do okay but the fact is that the state law says it applies to everything all elections in all cities across the state of so that's the other part of the argument you know so there's two there's the Mal question and then there's the then there's the petition question the procedural question yeah I think I think why I find this fascinating right is that we see you know someone that's not plugged into this like myself right I that's not my profession's not seeing what's going on kind of behind the scenes but we see so many things that take place and we'll see some absurdity or something we might just get highlights of it or whatnot but just seeing the the the small steps like all the work that's put in behind the scenes that's leading to um for yourself fighting for these rights that need to to be upheld sure but from the other side right like manipulating and trying to get around these things right and it's just it happens in so many areas and that's I mean that's why I want people listening to to understand the different areas that this goes on right there so many interesting ones and I want to I want to ask you about a couple other ones um I'm going to run to the restroom real quick so let's take a quick break yeah sounds great okay all right and we're back so let's do maybe one more example of sh some chicanery that's going on sure sure Y and then I want to just ask you about some kind of things that are going on right now in the country and just you know use your legalized to see what's what's going on behind the surface but what you have one more example oh yeah sure um we litigated a case uh a few years ago uh involving ballot boards okay what are ballot boards well when you have uh um when you have an election you have absentee ballots the absentee ballots come in well somebody's got to count those right because it's not election day um but someone's got to figure out who voted how so the legislature to address that issue wrote this this ballot board statute and you can see it it covers uh I think two or three different statutes and and the the common theme among all these statutes is okay you got a board of people and the board has to be balanced by party okay the idea is you want to have you want to have fairness you want to have half Democrats half Republicans because the way the law is written those are the only two parties that applies to okay there aren't there isn't a third major party okay so in practice you're talking about Democrats and Republicans doing the county okay so all these statutes are written for this ballot board to be comprised of party balanced ballot board members okay specifically ballot boards have to be comprised of election judges and Deputy County Auditors okay and what what are those that's a great question I'm glad you asked yes well um a deputy County auditor is appointed by the county auditor um and because of the way the statute is written okay it's a weird throwin but the reason it's there is because some of these smaller counties just don't get very many absentee ballots that come in I mean election day is big for them but some of the counties of Minnesota are are very sparsely populated and it didn't make sense that they would have to bring in separate people that are party balanced to count such a small number of ballots couple hundred or right couple hundred B exactly couple of work couple hours of work right now why do we have to bring in people to right so Deputy County auditor it's fine you know do that well because of the way it's written okay and some would argue it was deliberate okay the deputy County Auditors don't have to be party balanced the election judges do but the deputy County aors don't so believe it or not we've seen an incredible Pro proliferation of Deputy County Auditors in urban areas particularly in in Minneapolis where there's only a couple hundred absentee balance right Minneapolis a couple hundred absentee ballots right you get it yeah so um it was really clear what was being done was to avoid party balance in counting these absentee ballots rather than you know appointing the same number of election judges from each party everybody became a deputy County auditor and believe it or not the deputy County Auditors weren't balanced by party instead they looked a lot more like those from favored political perspectives do you have any guess of what the percentage was so this is like Minneapolis using this this right yeah the is it like 51 to 49 oh no no no no no vastly more vastly more County than that I it's been a few years I have to look at the numbers but we're I'm probably not very close no no no far more Deputy County aits far more not close not close yeah um so anyway we we we litigated that case as well and uh unfortunately didn't go our way way but um yeah I mean it's just another example I mean those are the kind of things that the legislature has to change you know in order for us to make any progress on it but uh but yeah that's another example of something that you and I probably would have never thought of right and I mean look it it makes sense to have party balance you want to have you know people to make sure that there AR aren't any Shenanigans going right right um but so in other words they put forward something that seems very reasonable probably to everyone particularly on this this past we want people on both sides you know let's get close to 50/50 and that way there's no foul play right I don't think anyone's going to say that sounds absurd that seems very reasonable and then they come up with something else that seems reasonable which is hey we've got this small little County here you know there's a 100 absentee ballots do we have to go through this like that's okay just bring somebody in and they can appoint right yeah and then you're going about your daily business you know you're you're you know having breakfast with your kids and someone else across the way is plotting and saying wait a second if we apply this here we can go against this kind of 50/50 balance and get some kind of absurd number I don't know why they would want to do that but point being people plot and we should be wary of people plotting 100% 100% yep and you know idle T Idle Hands do the devil's work right there's tyeing yeah so uh yeah they come up with all kinds of crazy clever stuff and then you look at it and say wow in in theory that was really really good but now in practice that's really a disaster yeah so yeah so let me ask you like so yourself or any of like the the people that you some of the organizations you work with and stuff do you guys have a lot of meetings where you guys kind of try to plot to undermine the legal system in order to get certain agendas across is that something that you guys spend your time doing no we don't have time to do that I mean we're it's too much work to try to catch up with everything that they're trying to get away with yeah you know um I mean look until I think what was it three four years ago something like that um Upper Midwest Law Center the the non-profit that I that I associate with 501c3 okay it's it's dedicated to liberty-minded litigation um and no it we don't get grants from from high up you know we don't get uh uh Soros money you know um but yeah it's it's a full-time gig I mean James works there very hard and and Doug Sean's the president there he does an outstanding job but it I mean James Works harder than anybody I've ever met I mean he's burnning the candle at both ends because it's we're we're fighting from behind but we're fighting we're winning we're winning important battles I mean so we can talk about it more later but I I'm optimistic about where things are headed because would you do you want to walk through some of that optimism right now free I mean yeah because I mean the one thing that stands out to me here and this is why I think this is really important is just there are people out there plotting to undermind the the system as it is which is a very reasonable system like that that example you gave of like well let's just give 5050 in the room right very reasonable and you're not going about saying let's figure out a way to undo that I know I know that I know that I can't go and tell everybody hey let's like does everyone agree publicly can we just have a public debate and does everyone agree that we should go 8020 or 9010 does that seem reasonable um obviously it wouldn't right but you and most people are not sitting here and saying let's undermine these reasonable things for some you know for some reason right but people are out there doing that which is why what you're doing and uh some of the people that you mentioned these things are really important because people are on the attack you're not on the attack you're on the defense of trying to uphold these things that are very reasonable right yep absolutely um so and I think you know I talked this before politics is when you have an outcome that everybody agrees on but you disagree on how to get there um that's red team blue team stuff okay and that's cool that's what our system is is set up to to do you know how do we make life better well we we want this we want Prosperity we want family we want business we want success whatever peace okay how do we achieve that two sides disagree you argue you reach a compromise and then ideally you achieve the goal but when it's not you know when you don't have a common goal that's not politics anymore you know that's something else then that's that's that's the battle that we're talking about then there are people trying to achieve different ends so our system's not set up for that so this is this is new a lot of this stuff is new you know including um well there's a segue including what's happening in Texas yeah it's it's fascinating because it is a constitutional crisis what's happening in Texas yeah which I'm fascinated by so please please walk us through this this is this is historical right this is absolutely yeah absolutely and and frankly if it was any other state it might be different but the fact that Texas was a republic once yeah um anyway which which by the way we're gonna we're goingon to air this in two weeks so for those watching this is this is fresh so right uh normally we're we've got a little bit of a leeway for our own sanity right that we're not scramlin have next week's video but we are going to move this one up the list because some of the things you're talking about such as this is a little more time sensitive I don't know what it's going to look like three months from now so I don't want I want this conversation to be relative so this is this is within two weeks of what you're hearing right right so um Texas has I think uh there are a few different uh resources they have the Texas National Guard then they sort of have two different Texas um like Public Safety uh militia type groups okay but they're State you know they state agencies so in other words Minnesota has like the the state troopers and they fall under the governor's jurisdiction because they're a Statewide you know law enforcement agency same thing with with the DNR okay the Department of Natural Resources that's a state law enforcement agency so they serve at the pleasure of the governor Texas has I think two or three of those little subgroups you know other than the National Guard uh that's serve at the pleasure of the governor so the governor declared okay under the Constitution declared Greg Abbott M declared an invasion and he said look uh we we don't have any ability to control what's happening here okay the federal government's abdicated its duty to defend our border and uh the whole country is suffering for it I mean to the tunes of millions of people depending on whose numbers you believe and anybody who tells you they know how many people came into the country is lying to you they don't know you know we have no idea we don't know who they are we don't know how many there are we have no idea mhm um so Abbott said we're done we're declaring an invasion and therefore we the Texas National Guard and these other subgroups are going to secure the border and the Biden Administration pushed back and said no you're not that's that's our job and we want to cut the razor wire so that's what we're going to do um so now really you have both both is acting under constitutional Authority okay under color of the Constitution and um I don't know what's gonna happen I I believe Abbott and and Ken Paxton the Attorney General in Texas who's fantastic I mean very liberty-minded conservative constitutionalist yeah um I think they're both going to dig their heels in and you you see now what is it 25 states that have declared in favor of Texas 25 had 25 well we talked last was it 10 it was 10 so it's 25 now 25 and I know I know I believe 10 of them have actually sent National Guard troops to Texas to help reinforce the border and the Scuttle butt now is that uh that um there there are calls for uh the for Washington to nationalize the Texas National Guard which they can do okay it's it's within their authority to do that um they haven't done it yet I don't know what would happen if they do MH um but I do know I'm I'm reading reports down there that uh National Guard Texas National Guard and border patrol are not I mean they're getting along just fine yeah and it isn't like they're you know well my orders say this and my orders say that and they're no no no so the people on the ground they're working together they've got they've got a shared vision and got Unity there all indications are that's right that's right but it's a it's really a fascinating concept question yeah and I don't know which way it's going to go and and time will tell but uh you know you just don't hear a lot about it which in in and of itself is telling you know but uh but yeah it's fascinating so we'll see so a couple questions one does um does does Abbott what's what's Abbott's reasoning for saying Invasion like what are some statistics there or not statistics are the right words but you know what what's what's going on there with that right um I I I think he he said look there isn't the the law says you have to detain okay detain until they have a hearing okay to decide on whether they're they're going to be admitted to the country or not there's a vetting process immigration not migration okay migration is one thing migration is groups moving you know birds migrate yeah you know herd animals migrate okay but people this is new so this isn't immigration immigration is when you have a process to vet people if you want to come into the country you got to pass these criteria we got to know who you are where you're from you know the Asylum thing legit okay legit reasons I want to know those things my wife went through that process she's from Canada she's got a green card and we went through that process they had to they had to double check that what we were telling the truth right exactly and you you passed yeah y yeah passed that's good um I figured as much yeah anyway um so yeah right so that's that's a process that's immigration that's legal immigration migration is just sort of willy-nilly flow from point A to point B and again all indications are that this is one of those examples where someone else has a different end goal in mind than the Constitution than the best interest of this country not the same thing yeah um so yeah I think he he declared an invasion because people aren't being detained you know they're being given notices to to show up next year for court or show up in a couple years we're backlogged we're 18 months behind but in the meantime time you know have go to Phoenix yeah they'll fly you to wherever you know you're going um and information's coming out now that that they're actually NOS these non-governmental organizations that are that are taxpayer funded in part okay that are facilitating these routes from Central America coming into really yes yes coming into this country through Mexico after to the Texas border um and are most most of these people are these like women and children uh no no no indications are that's not the case indications are that they're these are like fighting age men MH um they're not families and uh this is very very well funded I mean now we're learning that that billions of dollars are being sent you know to to Central America and uh to facilitate these routes and anytime you have that kind of money when you have billions of dollars you have um people who sell shoes on the way up and people who sell rain gear people who sell tents people who sell food people who transport people by boat from point A to point B to facilitate migration anytime you've got that kind of money you have you have [Music] microeconomic grants from different parts of the world you know uh signs with Chinese language on them for for migrants coming from China okay um yeah it's it's a scene and it's taken a long time to get to this point and so the is not going to be overnight M um but it's going to take a lot of willpower and that's what we're seeing from Abbott and Paxton and I hope they keep it up but yeah it's fascinating yeah that's worrisome especially when you talk about you know signs going up in Chinese and such and I think you mentioned that there was you know one whole camp that was there that was all fighting age Chinese men so that's certainly not the picture of you know what your heart might go out to of a mother and her child that are in a desperate situation and they're just looking for a way out right right and your heart can go out to that you still have a legal system and you have to work within that confines but from like a church perspective I can understand looking at that from a church and saying we need to find a way to help that woman and child doesn't mean we need to sneak her into the country but we should help but if it's a situation where there are a couple thousand Chinese fighting age men that somehow ended up in South America and are now coming into the United States when there's you know there's no official war between the US and China but there are they are at odds as world powers I mean that's that's very dis in and I know you mentioned there's a lot of good organizations that are are funding and helping this process because they're thinking woman and child and reality there's some other situations which is where right Abbott's looking at at that front line and saying bucks got to stop somewhere right this has to this has to end I think it was he met I think there was a there was a letter that was written by some former law enforcement officials saying hey just just so you know we don't know who these who these guys are okay these could be and they are are okay I think they I forget how many terrorists they apprehended at the border but you know um these are from countries that don't like us very much um and how many we don't know okay we don't know how many people are in in the interior of the country now but how difficult would it be to coordinate an attack you know they don't I mean we don't we're not safe to assume that they have the same priorities we do okay there are lots of countries in this world especially right now who really don't like us very much so I think Abbott cited that as as the real basis for the for for for calling it an invasion you know because at some at some level at some point it is you know so you have to assume the worst if you're going to keep your people safe yeah so yeah yeah you interesting yeah so what are different ways this can play out yeah well um if the federal government does nationalize the Texas National Guard which they might um my information as far as I know is that the installation of the razor wire is going to continue and Texas is going to use its other resources in the form of the the more local law enforcement agencies to continue that process okay um now is the Texas National Guard going to just line up and do as they're told by the Biden Administration I don't know that's going to be fascinating to see by itself MH um if the Biden Administration doesn't step in then I expect the the you know the reinforcements to continue along the border I don't think that's going to change but what's interesting about it is that this is all happening during an election year yeah so Biden's in a position now to have to argue to keep the Border open right he's threatening to Sue or he's going to have to threaten to sue Texas in order to keep the migrant flow coming through the Border in an election year can't imagine that's popular no not very popular no yeah no um especially when you have border patrol agents saying the same thing as Texas National Guard agents which is my job is to keep this secure so that's what I'm going to do and secure is not tag and release in the interior of the country to show up for a hearing in 18 months to two years that they're not going to show up for yeah you know so yeah it's interesting and it is it is astounding that we're not reading more about this every single day we should be this should be the biggest story in every newspaper on every TV station and it's not because it's historical right this is absolutely historical this is not business as usual no no this is novel territory never been done we've never been invaded we have two gigantic modes on either side of us yeah huge and we have a friendly neighbor to the North in Canada and a friendly neighbor of the south in Mexico MH we're in perfect shape to make sure we never get invaded mhm yet here we are yeah so the only conclusion you can reach if you're a thinking person is that this is being done by someone or some group that doesn't have our country's interests at hard at all the only conclusion you can reach yeah because if you got if you got five million people that have entered in and you take your 50 biggest cities you can figure out how many people per I mean if you wanted to do a coordinated attack that would not be that difficult no sure would if you had 30,000 people coordinated to pick up arms at a specific day in Minneapolis what's Minneapolis going to do right police force going to fight back against that we're not set up for that yeah nope you can't um right it it wouldn't it wouldn't be hard at all it'd be frighteningly easy as a matter of fact so and like like I said we have no idea we don't know um so yeah it's a precarious situation and it's an election year yeah I mean yeah pray yeah pray you know I mean I don't know what else yeah you just you pray keep your family close you know keep your loved ones close to you because you know this is this is God territory this is not US Territory yeah so yeah we'll see so what else what else should we talk about well we can talk about um we can touch on dos a little bit Yeah Yeah and what's happening with that um and the ocean of legal battles what yes yes there are a lot there are a lot um so yeah just to touch on it I mean maybe to clear up some misinformation and disinformation um both those words I absolutely can't stand by the way misinformation and disinformation right they don't actually mean anything they're we're told that they mean stuff but they really don't there's only there's only information and then the person who receives the information can decide like do I believe that information or do I not believe it like there's lies okay I got that but like you don't get to decide if it's like you don't tell me if it's misinformation or not I decide if it's misinformation or not or disinformation well we just had our um our video release two weeks ago from now so this goes out you know within a month with Dr Donna Harrison right I'm not even gon say what we talked about because they'll they'll probably scan this video pick up that vocabulary and this will end up getting blocked but that one was completely if you've ever heard the term Shadow band it was Shadow band but also of that Congratulations by the way yeah thank you that's it's a good badge yeah absolutely yeah Bennett's got a Bennett's got a picture up in his room now of our of actually if you go to our YouTube page yeah right and you go watch the video right below it is normally our you know like or subscribe in the description right where you can learn about you know she's an MD an adult but instead of that well it's down lower but instead of that you've got a uh a Miss information tag oh you do with the proper information of what an AB really is oh right which I said the word so now this is going to but right right but that's that's there and it's got and you can go to the website and figure out what an abortion really is because we were misinforming of course but thank God that someone's there to protect the listener who might be Hoodwinked right it's it's actually a loving nurturing caring thing right yeah we're wrong because we're misinformed about that and because we're not capable of making our own judgments about such things we only know what we're told you know that must be misinformation yeah because I'm sure when she was citing all of the statistics about you know increased levels of suicide or depression and all of these other things and she was citing those things but that's probably misinformation lies yeah all of it yeah yeah yeah it it is amazing um what's being done in the name of misinformation and disinformation I mean that we we were always taught I I was a polyi major in in undergrad i g Davis and um you know you read some of the Classics you have too you read some of the classics and they always say that free speech is always the first thing to go and I remember thinking you know a number of years ago when I graduated uh I remember thinking like yeah but that's not gonna happen here like free speech can go in other countries we have the Constitution we the First Amendment that's not going to go anywhere here here it is you're looking at it y every day you know and and it's it's death by Thousand Cuts it's subtle and it's small but it's it's very real MH you know and everything we're looking at I mean we're yeah it's it's shocking um anyway well that's a good way to put it real quick and then we yeah but um so we I spent uh hours that week trying to deal with Google you know and officially there's no it's not taken down right because that would not be the death of a Thousand Cuts that would be one big one to your point that something like that that's when you can maybe call Greg Joseph up and say are they allowed to just take a video down off YouTube and of course that would be something that would you'd have a case for that I I don't know if we would actually go through the process but you could you know and then you could but they say oh everything looks good on our end okay well on our end I can tell that I can watch what the impressions are doing and there's no you know yeah I can I can see this you know so from there and they're able to do this kind of behind the scenes which is the way once again you have to do it if you're going to if you're going to look at a voting block and say you know 50/50 that doesn't seem fair right we want we want 8020 or 9010 you have to do it behind the scenes you can't go out to the public and say Here's we're thinking we want to go more of an 8020 because we think that's more fair what does everyone think right that's going to get shot down in the same way that they just take all the videos down yep right that it's obvious but they can they can do things behind the scenes yep I think weren't they messing with the likes for a while too like what's what's getting ratio we had yeah so I mean with the like there was one point how many likes did we lose we lost like 30 views and they go through every once in a while so we can watch that yeah we can go through and they'll um you you might lose a subscriber you know and they'll go through and they'll filter and they'll figure out sometimes there's kind of fake likes bot or bot uh views oh yeah right so you might go through and you might have you know 24 and all of a sudden it drops down to like 208 you know you'll watch those right well we had we had in one day we lost we've never lost a subscriber I've never watched the number go down since we've lost a couple times or watch it go down one we watched lost what 11 between the hours of 5 and 7 a.m. so I went into the gym at 5: and I came out at 700 and we had lost 11 subscribers and we had lost like 40 views like like I've never seen that before that's weird like apparently everyone woke up early on the Tuesday morning and said done with this and unwatched it somehow yeah I how you do that but yeah that's interesting yeah yeah right so anyway you I don't have to tell you about censorship that's happening all over the place but um but yeah but I did I did want to just briefly talk about dos just so people understand what that was because you heard you heard for a while and it's been a couple years now but you heard a lot about roie Wade being overturned earned okay and now a woman's right is taken away and you know whatever else and really I mean we talked about this before but um it was probably under you know it was probably the most constitutional way to handle the issue okay which is to say you know as Christians We Believe life begins at conception and that's what I'll always argue okay but I also accept that there are other perspectiv and other faiths that don't see things the same way okay um so because of the the free exercise clause okay leave it to the states Federalism is there for a reason and the states are Laboratories of democracy so what dob said was hey you know this isn't our this is one of those things that isn't best from the top down because the federal government Believe It or Not doesn't always know what's best for everybody um so let the states decide let the states make up their own mind and then you can see how things play out state by state and it's just makes sense everything about it makes sense so um you know anybody who tells you that that uh dobs and the the conservative you know Supreme Court destroyed a woman's right to do XYZ to choose or whatever you want to call it um is wrong yeah okay it's just leaving it to the states and not creating a top down decision it makes sense what I think is fascinating with that and both the Texas thing is I mean you might be able to comment on this historically you know Civil War type kind of discussions right um but we're at a time now where states are starting to look very different right I mean you could be in Indiana and if you're in Indiana you can go to a private school and you can have your tax money go to that private school so you can go to a private uh Christian High School that might cost 14,000 and you might pay like $3,000 a year right um so you can do that there you can't have an abortion in Indiana okay right your neighbors are not having abortions um and I'm guessing that they are supporting Texas I haven't looked at it but I would assume that Indiana is probably supporting Texas then you can come to Minnesota here and there's absolutely no chance you you you have no school choice right so you're you're you're you've got a bunch of money going to the state and if you want to do private education you got to pay for that right you know out of your left pocket right um abortion are are we up till day of birth uh I don't know the answer to that um I don't know the answer to that but I know I know this last year they've just I mean yeah all the gloves are off um in Minnesota so that's going to look very different and there's no way that the Minnesota National Guard is being sent down to no to right so those are those are completely different situations which is interesting I don't know if you can comment on is that how it's supposed to be you know are there pros and cons to that um yeah I mean you know to to a degree I think it is how it's supposed to be um but as it pertains to sending the National Guard I mean let me rephrase the difference in application of law can vary state by state and I don't think I think that's the way it's supposed to work I think it's a healthy thing um but I don't think there's ever been a time at least not since the Civil War where one state is declaring in favor of a different state adverse to the federal government I mean you saw the the Missouri versus Biden lawsuit a couple years ago has really turned on a lot of lights that the Attorney General of Missouri and uh Jeff Landry from um Louisiana brought a lawsuit against the B Administration a couple years ago and that was the first time you really started to see States sort of I mean that's not to say that states never sued the federal government for of course of course they did okay but on this sort of wide scale you know aligning with each other adverse to the federal government and now when you you're talking about sending armed troops to support another state again outside the purview and semi adverse to the federal government is unprecedented like it's never happened so yeah I think it's interesting what are if you had to say what are uh let's just go three mhm what are three things that people listening should be worried about when it comes to government type over reach right just three big things this is you know certainly one but I think I know we've talked about other ones where that that's very dangerous and then I think that kind of PIV leads into that optimism that you talked about right like if those victories can be won here are here's here's a road forward where this isn't doomsday right right um so so let me let me go let me start at the beginning um or start at the end and then work my way back to the question okay so I think we have to think about it in in a different way the reason I'm optimistic okay is because flip it around so there's always a bell curve right and so on on the one end of the bell curve you have okay um people are uh obedient to every regulation that comes down if you're told to do something by the government you do it okay and on the other end you have chaos and Anarchy okay there's nothing at all going on okay nobody's listening to anything and you have no you know no governance at all in society and in the middle there's there's the sweet spot where government IT issues edicts and regulations and uh the legislature creates laws to govern certain situations and everybody obeys or at least to the maximum degree possible you have an obedient populace and that's in the middle all right somewhere and maybe it's one way depending on you know the times okay the the flavor of the day or whatever it might vary slightly but the point is once you get too far one way or the other on that bell curve either I mean people just aren't going to listen to you anymore because they begin to understand like this is just too honorous okay it's like it's like um if you've heard of the laugher curve okay art laugher was he he was an economist okay and he was a Reagan Era Economist his point was always you have a bell curve and on one end of the bell curve okay you have 0% Taxation and then the government doesn't collect any taxes on the other end of the curve you have 100% taxation okay and the government collects zero taxes because people don't work yeah if if you know that all your labor is going to be taken by the government then you don't give them any labor okay and so the sweet spot that is what's the maximum degree that the government can raise your taxes and still collect is someplace in the middle okay but too many people don't understand they think if you raise taxes to 100% you're going to collect 100% of taxes if you create regulations and laws that are 100% onerous everyone's just going to listen and do as they're told right but it doesn't work that way and it never has so right now in terms of balance okay we're creeping too far over to the onerous do as you're told okay the other end the 100% taxation end yeah okay so what you're seeing already is people who simply don't listen anymore they're not listening because they understand there's this innate sense that that's not a reasonable law I'm not going to listen to it I'm going to do what I think is right and so I'm optimistic because it isn't always the case that when you push harder you get the result that you want because at some degree you just can't push anymore because people won't listen to you and I think the American population in particular is is awesome when it comes to that we just get it you know I'm sorry we have a second amendment and I know that you want to take my guns away from me but you're not going to because I'm just not going to listen to you yeah you know and so um the lights are coming on for people now and I think it's going to continue happening that way um what do I think people should be particularly concerned about and paying attention to um the the censorship issue we've been talking about is huge it's really big um but again there's cause for optimism there because you're seeing Legacy Media die but you're seeing podcasts you're seeing I mean Joe Rogan's the most popular guy in like I mean these numbers are huge it's like 20 times the PE if I'm remembering correctly it's like 20 times the whole CNN evening lineup right right exactly it's incredible yeah I mean rest in peace like that's dead Legacy Media is gone 100% in newspapers you you've watched the Star Tribune okay and the New York Times and Wall Street Journal go from this to this to this to this and I mean you know it's happening all over the place so that part's great okay but the censorship is definitely something to be concerned about because that's a First Amendment problem and hand inand you know if the the more the First Amendment gets eroded there's that little clause about you know laws respecting the establishment of religion too okay that's that's right there and once you get preferred religion just the way you have preferred speech okay you got problems yeah um so you know otherwise you know look vote show up and vote it matters it helps because unfortunately a lot of these Solutions are going to be legislative Solutions these are just going to be have to have to be things that Congress fixes because we can't you know we can argue about what a law means in a couple different ways that's what I do but ultimately you know progress has to be made at the legislature and we got to get good people in there and it's become you know the the stigma around being a a congressman I mean what's their approval rating now 10% 12% you know nobody wants to do it I don't blame them you know there's a lot of corruption um but good people good people need to stand up and not be afraid because there's there's nothing it seems scary it seems intimidating but it's not if you push through it there's nothing on the other side because it's just bankrupt yeah you know so I mean God's on our side right yeah I wasn't saying me but I mean God is on our side yeah you know so live your best life you know tell the truth and do it yeah and we're going to win yeah we're going to win yeah well there's something beautiful about knowing that you're like you are fighting for what is good and what is true and what is beautiful and and so were you by the way yeah yeah I mean together like this yeah podcast yeah you know yeah but it's into the question earlier like are you calling your buddies up and like trying to navigate her on the legal system and like you know like try to under like you're not doing that right like the other side is doing that and it's ridiculous asine and it's nice to be on the side where you say yeah you guys have Hoodwinked for a while and you got some little minor victories but that doesn't last long right like that that always at least it destroys itself you know right it might destroy some of us with it you know right as you as you burn things down but it's much better to try to build things up and and to fight for things that are worth fighting for absolutely and reasonable Minds can disagree again reasonable Minds can disagree about the meaning of something I got it reasonable Minds can disagree about the means to achieve a given end but the crisis we're looking at right now is that we don't have the same ends Y and it hasn't happened in a long time I mean look at you know Minnesota versus The Dakotas they're two different countries you know you go you go west of here and it's like living in a different world yeah you know especially especially during the covid madness and all the rest of that stuff I mean do you think that'll ever come back no yeah I don't I think um [Music] um I think that's a good example of people standing up and saying no um I mean is there any doubt in your mind that if people hadn't done that that we would have a totally different world we would have you'd have to get permission to travel you'd have to make sure you had a passport you know for your you know inoculations I don't know if that's going to slip past the sensors or not we'll find out we'll find out we'll get a little disclaimer right right inoculations exactly exactly fact check um but uh but yeah if people hadn't stood up and said no you know we wouldn't be in the situation we're in now yeah you know but that's an example of just pushing too far and people said you're just not going to get away with it because Life's too short I'm not going to sit in my house and be scared all day yeah so once that fear goes away bad guys are in trouble yeah so because they don't want the church side I mean uh most pastors I know you know everyone feels bad because we didn't do it right you know if I could go do it again uh I mean if I knew if I knew what I do now I would have never closed Church you know um I can understand the first week this the first week was chaos maybe the second week after that we should have just been done with all of it you know and we didn't operate correctly there's no chance someone's going to come in and say all right Trinity like it's time for you to do online worship like like bolog go pound sand pass yeah absolutely absolutely so it's funny um it just made me think of this you know you hear so much you know you hear people say oh yeah I'm sure there's some big conspiracy you know oh yeah they sit in the dark room and sharpen their knives and whatever you know and they're all conspiring together but the thing is you know people forget that you really don't have to have a grand conspiracy all you have to do is you know do what your boss tells you to do and look I mean what what's safer you know not not locking down okay not requiring masks and then everyone gets sick and then you're the bad guy because you didn't listen to what you were told you're also probably going to lose your job Yeah okay or just getting in line and saying yeah if you come into my door you got to put a mask on yeah you gotta you watch the Cellophane in aisle two you can go to aisle one or three but not aisle too and there are stickers on the floor and I'm gonna call the cops if you don't stand on the stickers whatever okay um all people have to do is is get in line that's what happened we saw that I mean local officials weren't conspiring in some dark Smoky room you know with the governor um but the orders came down from the top and people had the choice if I'm wrong and people die I'm gonna get blamed I'm lose my job but if I get in line do what I'm told my job it come it plays on fear which is as we found out it's a strong emotion absolutely and uh yeah it's it's good to root one thing that we uh one thing that was very telling was one of the jobs of the Christian faith and of the church and of pastors is to prepare people to die right that's why I love Ash Wednesday you know remember oh man Thou Art dtin to us Thou shalt return dunan and I joke about we should just say instead of that we should just say go and Die With Honor right right yeah but uh but I mean there is that sense of you know part of the Christian faith is your goal as a Christian is not longevity of Life your goal of Christian is to be a Christian right you know and that's your goal right right and when covid came we realized we as the church had done a terrible job of that because it was common sense for everybody to say there's a chance I might get sick so I don't need the Lord suffer for four or five months I don't need to go to church I'll just watch some you know spiritual entertainment online because what if I got sick God wouldn't want me to get sick and the Christian answer that we had to wrestle with and we we missed preparation for 2020 and I hope we never miss it again is No you know it's it's okay to stay home when you're sick like you know there are situations where that's that's something but no the the goal of your life is not that you live as long as humanly possible right and if that means six months without the sacrament you should really rethink that right um if it means two weeks at home because you're sick or you know you're a shut in because you are struggling with cancer and you need a pastor to come busy you those are different situations that's fine right but saying we all need to agree that we should not go to church for as long as until the governor tells us it's safe yeah that's baloney right you know and people aren't gonna fall for that again I don't think I totally agree with you I totally agree my mom my mom's Church in north of Colorado Springs um handed out little um they did communion like to go so they have little like bags with like a little wafer Lord have mercy like a little little wine thing with the little cup on it or whatever yeah put like I think it was on a table outside the door and you could come and pick it up oh my goodness as long as you yeah so yeah you've got I always love if you've got so you've got that picture going on and then you've got let's go to like the third Century or second century you know when Christians are being murdered and persecuted right and they'll sneak in the cover of night to go have the Sacrament in the church together like right there's that picture like people like they might get snagged on the way they get thrown to the Lions but we got to get to the sacrament you know because that's important and then you got today where you know wearing a bubble suit and I'm in a car down the street because what if you know it's it's so amaz like to think about think about the idea of a lockdown I mean read like read the Bill of Rights and read the Constitution and and then lockdown like wait what that's they do that in prison like a whole country you're gonna I mean it's like it's it's completely incompatible with the Constitution it's like we live through these years and like we're not supposed to talk about it we're just supposed to pretend that it it just is gone now it's not coming back it's it's amazing it was breath it's breathtaking what they what they got away with you know or what what was done in the name of safety and health or whatever and yeah I mean like you said though I I don't see it coming back anytime soon it's just I think uh the message was was sent loud and clear you you push to a certain point and then doesn't work anymore yeah yeah I like that illustration of that and I mean you probably would not have I don't think you'd have Texas doing what they're doing back in 2019 right so in other words I think I think the the mentality has changed to the degree where Texas can do what they're doing and everyone gets it right to whereas in 2019 they would like what's going on here why you don't right that's a that seems know a little little over the top Texas right but now everyone's like yep like we get it because there's insanity and we lived through insanity and we saw that right you know and I don't think I mean I don't think it's any accident like you said one of the one of the roles of one of your jobs is is you know to prepare people to die MH and look if that fear is gone if that fear of death is gone well what what power does covid have over you what power does a CO regulation have over sorry I'm just not scared I mean I'm not in charge you know God's in charge so yeah I'm GNA live my life that's the free life right that's I mean I love one of the quotes I don't know Peter creef or someone says it but he says if you fear God you will feel fear nothing else if you don't fear God you'll find you fear everything else because if you fear God properly you realize that's that's the important thing right and I'm not going to acques on something God asked me to do because there's some other Force pressing in on me right so that makes life really simple yeah you know that makes oh you said that okay not going to listen to it but thanks for saying it yeah I don't know what you're going to do but I know what I'm going to do it's pretty simple to follow God right I'm supposed to be scared of what again yeah oh okay got it sure thanks we'll do yeah thank you see you later but yeah good luck yeah right yeah anyway yeah so there we go anything else anything else we should know it's really important before we close up and go get some food because we've been fasting some today we're doing Exodus 90 here so we we do need to go get some fish yes we do yeah um here's here's the last thing I'll say okay and it sort of ties in um people should get involved I mean even though they don't think it matters and even though you know people think city councils is a waste of time and being a mayor is a waste of time getting involved in your community waste of time it's not it's not because everybody kind of knows the the villains and the heroes in Washington DC they can name all of those guys but you know they don't have that big of an impact on my day-to-day life the people who do are over there in City Hall and we need good people at the local level um do it go run for office go start a petition if you live in a charter city in Minnesota go collect some signatures do something you know change the Law whatever you think it is whatever you think would make your city better just go do it get involved because by doing that you're you're challenging the power structures that are in place and you're telling people hey I'm paying attention we don't want this and we're not going to tolerate it you know so I think direct democracy is a great thing anyway bottom line go get involved in your church go get involved in your local government in your community and make a difference because it does it does make a difference because that filters upwards and the more people do that the more we're going to make a difference here and in this country I think that's beautiful I can even do one more plug there just I mean like right along with that piggybacking off of that um you mentioned Church you know and there's other areas too but I mean that was church was also the meeting place that's where people got together and they said what's going on in the PO right the PO you know the city around us and that's where they would go and they would they would hash out these issues and then go and do things right mobilize and that is part of the church you know I mean when the world's burning around us it's not our job just to show up at church and then kind of do the Minnesota thing where it's like well you know the Lion's lost that's a bummer and d d and like that's as far as we're going to talk City Hall is burning over there but we're not going to talk about that right you should talk about it you should talk about it at church not in the sermon the sermon is meant for something else but afterwards Christian men and Christian women uh especially Christian men need to gather together and say hey the city's burning and we're the ones who are supposed to do something about it yep one one Lantern if by land and two if by see right Paul Riv hung them where Church B yeah yeah there you go amen yes amen all right Greg Joseph thanks Brian yeah cheers