Episode 19 - Investigating Movement with The Rehab Process, Jake Dunn

okay so today I'll move your brain move your pop bla move your brain move your body podcast we have Jake done Jake done is the rehab process on Instagram and he is also a strength and movement therapist in New York City and other places hi Jake hello hello thank you so much I appreciate it we're very happy to have you on the show today um I yeah 2020 I've been working with you just like talking with you kind of mentoring under you for a couple months and I've learned so much and you've been awesome so we want to talk about a bunch of different topics but what is like what have you taught me let's go a little bit into that what systems have you been studying and how did you get into what you're doing well I guess if I'm throwing it way back I started my by studying back when I was probably a kid when I just played sports I just did a lot of lot of different sports and at the time I didn't know or care that it was movement right but now that I look back on it if I didn't play all this different sports that I played year-round had all this injuries that I continuously got I probably wouldn't understand movement nearly as well in my opinion and I think that was the biggest thing for me and in the turning point in my life and what I knew I was going to do so from there you name it I'd actually started off with I put up a story just destiny about FMS being kind of uh not my favorite that's just because you know I've kind of filtered things out over the years and I think it's great for understanding like how you should turn right how you should lunge that's awesome I just think there's so many ways to cheats or certain tests and that might teach your brain a certain pattern so that's one I did a lot of actually Anatomy trains books right next to me I loved that book it was great for me to learn super-dense but awesome to understand integration for you then I got into PRI I would say yeah and that was just uh incredible to understand like it was for F versus years like we talking about like how can this air movement affect my shoulder range of motion like stop talking to me and you know then I had a few things occur where I had to believe it because you you see it enough then you start to believe these things and so I dug down that hole while and that's been I think close to three years now I've been studying PRI taking all the courses for the most part got my hands on a lot of good studying material on research articles you name it so a lot of different things and of course FRC I've build into that a little bit not super deep but definitely understand it all and love it so for you and you and me we were just kind of jumping into the whole you know how can I move better if I am moving bad how do I even know if I am moving bad and if I am moving bad how do I correct that to make that movement more efficient so it's kind of you know a trial and everything cuz that's the biggest thing for me now it's just I've studied enough and I'm gonna continue to I think but um I've always been the positive skeptic in my own eyes and how I can get better with myself because I'm always doubting it I'm not super biased I try not to be I'm sure we all are but I've definitely been strength starting away from that and now I've just been continuously doing my own my own process so that's why my Instagram is the rehab process so for me I look at it from many different ways it's not just the rehab process it is a process but for me it's a process of getting better every day on how I can make people better whether it's from strength or rehab purpose and yeah and that's it I just love putting my hands on people and and making changes in their body and finding out what works and what doesn't work because what works for that person might not work for someone else but I have my principles that I stand by and I usually find a way to get some good changes and if not I'll find another way because there's so many ways to you know make positive impacts people yeah absolutely so it sounds like you I don't obviously I have not worked with you closely like Alena has but it sounds like you kind of see rehab and training as kind of a spectrum instead of two isolated variables which is exactly how I work and obviously you know that Lolita works that way but it's really it's refreshing to hear you say all of those things the way that you said them just because it's like things that that we obviously feel super strongly about too and people have people have no idea if you just follow one dogma you're gonna end up running into problems eventually anyway and then you don't know how to solve some unique issue that someone just isn't responding to you know a specific dogma of care so you have so many different tools absolutely that's it's a definite big thing where I even caught myself doing it at one point I I i purposely actually did every style lifting for the most part over the last eight years I think as long as I've been a trainer I first started off you know just doing this crazy lifts and then I did Olympic lifting I got into CrossFit I really don't Olympic lifting because I wanted to understand it when I was with the Olympic track team down in Florida actually I worked at a place called the National Training Center where the adidas track team ran so all the people that are in the Olympics and it will be in the current Olympics they're all training there and they are doing a lot of squats Olympic lifts and it's mostly because their coaches are there for that so it was cool to see and I kind of just got into it got to a point where I felt pretty comfortable with it but then had some injuries occur and in particular now that Alena would understand what was going on my thoracic spine the cheat the movement to maintain overhead flexion so I kind of like got to a point like man there's got to be something different that for my body that might make me feel better so I moved on to different styles lifting you know I got in the functional training there's a lot of good things with Anatomy trains I'll even point out say functional patterns is a is a very good source of understanding how to move biomechanically if you understand the purpose of it all everyone does so there's a lot of mixed emotions on things like that but at the root of it all it's just trying understand mechanics and move better for yourself or whatever your sport is you know maybe you have to move a little differently so yeah so what was what was the injury that you had when you were in Olympic lifting with your thoracic spine like what was going on that you you kind of alluded to but I want to learn more well for me it's it's gonna resort the back pain right I've actually got hurt my first time when I was playing college baseball I was planning to Ella where and we had a coach string coaches getting us to squat and I guess didn't really care how we were doing it necessarily or I'll just put it on myself because at the end of the day you only have yourself willing so I'll say I guess I was squatting too much weight as a freshman trying to put on weight and look good and didn't work out too well for me yet so I got got hurt right there and that kind of carried my way and I can tell you how I got hurt it's for sure I was an extension I was really biasing extension instead of owning it with the floor and all the way from all up to the glutes I was just really using my back to help maintain that that bar about whether I forget what it was it wasn't a crazy amount of weight but it you can get hurt on five pounds if you do it wrong you know it doesn't matter I told this to someone recently I felt I feel like I'm an athlete so I can move well I can lift well I can manipulate my body but one day in Florida a few years ago I picked up a 5 pound box spring just from an angle and I picked it up and I literally just fell to the ground crying because so much pain I'm like it just goes to show like it doesn't matter you know what's going on or how athletic you are it can just be this little little twitch and it caused a lot of issues and then that fear can live inside you they can create it'll wreak havoc in you so it's it's so unexplained and we just need a respect pain and things like that because we do not know it all so just run with it yeah I love what you just said that's so true and it really does go up in here and into your psychology of it too yeah well and that that will reflect in physiology and how your body just remains in spasm or compensate is kind of tiptoes around what it thinks it needs to do but yeah that's where rehab comes in right reset everything I've always had most success with people just kind of almost like giving their nervous system a reason to feel the proper tension obviously cuz they're so their body is so stuck in this like pattern of like poor mechanics because it's trying to kind of bandage or like buttress over an injury whereas if you just give them load with the proper set up obviously like people are scared like you literally hear the word load and you're like oh my god I live scary but no actually a proper deadlift is actually in my experience one of the best ways to get someone's back to stop freaking out all the time 24/7 and I don't think even a lot of therapists think that like I'm not even a PT but I mean neither is Alena but it's just like fine I just feel like the way that we a lot of time are doing rehab and in this country at least from what I've seen a lot of the time is just it's almost like perpetuating people's fragility and it's like you I think it should be their responsibility ethically to actually increase that person's capacity within a rehab setting while they have them there and they can you know be aware of their mechanics and get them confident and strong because again that like pain fear spasm cycle we all just said it it's like that's the real problem in a lot of cases yeah that's gonna it's gonna stick with you and you you're scared and and that's why I think there needs to be a quick gap between therapy unless you're on the far end of the spectrum I just got hip surgery yesterday good luck telling those people and I pulled them out of bed out of the hospital they're my first rotation or a second and they were just you know some are freaking out you could be a 30 year old guy freaking out get out of bed because he got so much pain but it was the funniest thing I walked in the next room and there was a 92 year old lady who had the same exact surgery and she got up and started walking I'm just like she's like they say nothing to me cuz it's it's just her perception of it all and you know it's it's crazy I know cuz she's fixed you know just whether you feel scared or not to step on that limb right so same goes for any else totally so it's so funny yeah very depressing but so you mentioned before that you've studied yeah I mean you're always studying from what I have known of you you you study a lot and it obviously shows what are the systems that you've been studying and how do you merge them I think for me of course I loved Anatomy trains and understanding how the body you know it's integrated whether it's faster lines but I like to look at it from a whole system approach so respiration will affect the way that my limbs are moving same with the fashio or the muscles they're all going to be doing relatively the same thing but I could be talking about all three separately if I wanted to right so if I can understand all three that's even better in my eyes right of course that's very difficult to understand and I'm going to continue to learn I mean I don't know how long I just forever because I really want to but definitely a gear I instilled a lot in me and how and how things typically come about with the body and how we're excited ice and what can occur because of that misconceptions on what we can see in someone's spine whether someone looks like they're chaotic or really it's just because they're not you know they're standing up so gravity might be forcing them a little forward but without you seeing it there's other things going on in the spine that might be actually an extension and so that's how even for you like you've asked me before if you see someone that's rounded in the back how do you even know if they're really a flat back or not I'm like well let's put them in different positions and see whether they can breathe through their back or where they are greeting can they fully in the inhale and fully exhale because chances are the biggest thing that I see is people lack the ability to compress compress I want abdominals they just can't do it they can fully exhale but in their eyes that's a full exhale but is it really probably not if people could really do that they'd have a lot better chance of understanding so many things and not being in pain or having this issue or getting stuck in this pattern yeah so for as far as that that's PR I I mean another thing is you can even say bill Hartmann I incredible guy that I've not had the chance to meet yet but he's in over the internet now and he's doing very similar things right it's all it's all relative we all understand but putting your own spin on things and you know you might have differences between the system or that system but you know none of us created respiration you know we're all just trying to develop it and make it a little better yeah and seeing how we can manipulate the body depending on our needs so if someone needs to deadlift like you had mentioned you know they need to they need to be able to compress very well perform good Val Salvas you know compressed air inside of them so they can pull more weight versus a marathon runner you know might not might not want to do that at all I might do the opposite because they need to run long distances but if they were to switch spots they wouldn't be able to do that sport very well at all but then you got the people who like myself who want to be right in the middle and I I'm just that guy I don't know I want to be like a ninja I want to be able to go over here and over here and do it all so it's kind of it's cool to manipulate systems and see how well you can you know intertwine them so I like Anatomy trains I'll do a lot of functional movements from doing a lot of unilateral movements and that works great with pri or just manipulating patterns because if someone's stuck in a certain pattern where we're on the right side but then we turn our body this way so if you want I can show you my little yes good so if we are here can you see me yeah okay so very commonly because of our internal structure being asymmetrical I can name 10 different things right now but we we tend to manage air pressure inside of us with a bias on the right side so our hips we might stand on the right leg more so I'm gonna turn to the right okay but this guy doesn't want to be looking right while he's trying to talk to you so he's going to counter rotate his upper body while his hips are still looking right so he's on that right leg a lot of things on that right side so I could be I can name what's going on at the ankle that could be more supinated in the right ankle right verse pronated or everted on this left because I'm on that side I'm loaded so these ribs on that right side might be more compressed first the left might be expanded right even when I'm rotating back this way okay so things like that it's great to understand how I can manipulate respiration while also adding say Anatomy trains my type of Calcutta bell swings I could do mace work I do a lot of stuff like that because understanding how to just do the opposite is very powerful and then combining the respiration with the movement is great but still having a understanding of if I can't get my abdominals contracting well when I'm in this position I might not see these benefits which is the hard part which is why Bri and other systems have caught easier positions so let's teach you on the ground first let's let's eliminate gravity because me standing up and teaching you how to do a kettlebell swing when you've never done one before is easier said than done because I'm gonna see a lot of things going on from this side verse a this side unless I teach you certain sensations on the ground but then again some people that walk in my office might be super athletic and I might put them on the ground and they do the exercise once then like got it I'm like cool let's get up let's just make it way harder immediately that's why I like bridging that gap quickly because I don't want to keep people on the ground because I've done it I've been in the gym where I'm doing corrective exercise or Bri whatever it is for two hours in the gym and I'm just wasting time and all I really needed to do is learn one or two techniques that benefited me and then do my lift so that's it love that it's awesome so can we talk a little bit more about the compensatory pattern that you just talked about with your little stormtrooper guy we bring it back you go a little bit deeper into that and how how someone could wind up that way as an exam yeah sure so there's many things that can happen but very commonly we might bias that that right side and again I also see this more now I'll just be honest with the whole rotation some people will call it the last state left a I see right up here I refer to that but I also see a lot of people who are just bilaterally extended so PE see they might call it or for me I'm just gonna say they're extended so they're in an anterior tilt and a shift probably anterior everything's going forward because we're falling forward every step we take so those people are gonna have calves that are just non-stop on always on they're not strong but they're always on so if we're in that position again because of that that right hemidiaphragm being a little bit more dominant we are going to start to orient our hips to the right and then our body again doesn't it doesn't want to just face that way so it's going to counter rotate so you'll see that right BC is pure I would call it the whole front on this right side will become constricted because it's turning you back this way right and then a lot of times you'll see that left shoulder pop up okay so that left shoulder will pop up so elevate and retracts slightly okay so left upper trap pain very common you'll see it in almost 80% of people you'll see their left shoulder a little higher than the right people were more severe might be more the the idea for me is not to necessarily fix their shoulder height it's to get them to understand everything down below first and a lot of times that corrects a lot of it do I think some people will always have a left shoulder that that's higher than the right yeah and I'm not gonna like be testy to like try and make it perfect cuz I don't think we're ever gonna be symmetrical since our insides are completely symmetrical unless our training becomes so asymmetrical out on the outside and we have just this innate ability to understand every day of our lives like whoa you only like my left shoulders a little bit more elevated today let me do an extra set of left obliques or something like that I just don't think it's gonna happen I think we just need to be comfortable with understanding that we're gonna be a little twisted turn and more importantly don't have pain when we're doing it or discomfort we feel fine you can go deadlift bilateral deadlifts and come out of it okay right um so long as you're just not getting stuck in a certain pattern but on top of that we can I can easily say people who are doing anything overhead they're gonna be extending chest out that's a big cue that I'm not a big fan of that I was taught and I think it's single handily was the cue that got me hurt other than the fact that I was performing the lift I would say because I was constantly thinking chest out chest out but not understanding what that means and now that I understand what chest out means I could be given that cue now and I think I would do it right however the way I would do it is is I would maintain an abdominal control and you know I would just inhale and my chest would come out first fully just pushing my spine forward so that's the difference part of the FMS thing that I just reposted recently is why I said I wasn't too big of a fans because I can do that overhead squat no problem but am I fully extended in my T spine more than likely and I think there's going to be a level of instability when you're under that bar or like I see Alina doing all the time with her heavy snatches that she does I love it I love it so I just think you know this and you do it so well her body loves you he loves you your body wants to keep you safe in it's going to it doesn't care how it does it so I just just for me personally just because of all the injuries and personally trying all these different styles of lifting I just kind of came to find what I think works best for me what I feel good with and for me that it's fine going forward I'm just trying to stay away from it as much as I can because we get stuck there it which is that compensatory issue it's a lot it's a lot easier to keep going an extension verse going towards flexion when you're stuck in extension right but if we were stuck in flexion it'd be the opposite but we're never like that because we walk forwards so that's kind of what happens I could say if I was breaking it down why people do that is when we walk forwards right if you see someone walk walk right next to you your body's gonna want to go backwards because we're always trying to counter rotate on each other we're always trying to fight that so for we're going forwards our body's going to want to go backwards so my chest is going to go out and that's gonna cause a lot of changes in the spine from the t spine all the way up to the cervical spine and basically start to reverse those issues are sar than normal curvatures that we have in the spine which is the lordosis in the lumbar spine kyphosis in the thoracic and lordosis in the cervical spine so we want to keep those curves but be able to go with twist and turn in any position and I would say the whole like some people are hating on the term neutral spine and that's cool I guess it's just you're understanding what neutral spine is I want to be able to twist turn every position but if I say come back to a neutral spine I'm gonna I think thirty degrees of lumbar lordosis no kyphosis up here that's what I'm thinking so I don't necessarily hate that term as long as I understand what that means and can I move and get in and out of certain positions without getting stuck in those positions yeah so can you said that a lot of people are stuck in thoracic extension or okay our people not stuck in lumbar extension more so than thoracic extension or maybe cuz I don't have I don't it sounds like I probably don't have the same lens as you guys but we do for most of the pages that I've been around I feel like their shoulder range of motion is limited in part because they can't I mean they're literally so so tight in their upper back and it appears to be flexion but I remember you earlier said that you it appears to be flexed but it wasn't so I just wanted to learn for my own selfish reasons and probably other people that were listening this I have a little bit of knowledge about like what they think they see too because I've always at least like when a lot of people that come to me that are having squat pain it's their low back because they're actually not able to externally rotate their shoulders or you know retracting depressors Beulah and get their their upper back too actually you'll hold up the bar as well or their glutes and their hips to open up so can you please explain that little bit more because I'm actually gendered yeah stop me anytime you need me cuz that would ramble on so yes can I say that it's down below absolutely I can say that we are our spines are positioned we were born right for that lumbar lordosis right we're supposed to have that so it's already positioned in that manner or vertebra already positioned there they're not going they're not in extension they might move further than an extension but they're already visited position they're firstly you know T spine is the opposite right so when someone doesn't know how to manage air pressure very well I would say I would back everything off that I said and blame it on that I would blame it on inability to understand how to manage air pressure and send it air multi-directional expansion where's my a neutral right yes grabbing this for you we are saying the same thing I was just making sure cuz I yeah I don't disagree with you but I was super confused I didn't cool okay got it so when I got this teacup here right yeah so back in school when I was taught how to do a posterior and anterior pelvic tilts oh the teacup getting poured forward and backwards right so so anterior tilt goes here till the same thing so the water is pouring out for a posterior tilt rights posterior pouring out backwards right the same thing goes if I were to take a small little ball a little bouncy ball and if I were to go say my dominoes are right here right I took this forward okay so I got that excessive extension and then lumbar spine right totally yeah right so now if I you were to air pressures right here if I were to be here start here and I just drop this ball where is it going to bounce when it hits that Center the cop where is it gonna ricochet back if it's if it's going this way oh it's gonna go here it's going to bounce boom here in the back and it's bouncing yeah sorry I needed a ball I don't that's a guy so it was it without straight up this way and now this way this way so that's air pressure shooting straight to your abdominals when you're in this extended position on the lumbar spine even farther so now that's putting their dominoes on the eccentric orientation so now they're they're really asking them to work even more than they ever could before so they're constantly stretching their abdominals stretching that's that's if they don't have any control and if they have some control maybe they're working them in a knee centric manner hopefully but very commonly the six-pack likes to take over and that that's a muscle that it'll wreak havoc on your sternum if you allow it to so I would say that excessive lumbar lordosis where they are moving in an extension completely agree with you because of that they don't want to fall forwards anymore so now they start to retract their shoulder blades because of that and now after retracting the shoulder blades but really happening it's just their thoracic spine is actually moving forward because if I were to retract my shoulder blades like this that's a big difference than doing this so chest out is much different unless I were to actually know how to retract my shoulder blades but that won't help us from phone forwards what will help us from falling forwards is actually sending our T spine forwards with the lumbar spine that's going forward as well okay so it's kind of counteracting it so we just maintain this this homeostasis this balance because we don't want to fall that's it and because of that we breathe in that position all right and now air is definitely going to the belly because you can't get that but in a posterior tilt save your life and you can't get those ribs to come down because you no longer have abdominal control because those abdominals are easy centrally oriented so they're stretched they're just going they're going crazy and they're like freaking out on you and a lot of things like that happen so hopefully that kind of clears that yeah totally does it really a besieged ray vision different people's bodies or spines at least when they squat yeah we have that now they actually at least unless I'm being fooled I don't know I thought I saw a functional MRI you know where the people are moving and I'm seeing it inside like that's great where's that been the last 10 years yeah oh yeah for sure but if you can if you can picture that if you have the principles and you can understand it then you're like oh so that this will this toting will affect where air flow is going or it will put more emphasis on a certain muscle to work better or work less so from the backbone we want you know we won't balance neutral symmetry some something like that right it just doesn't happen like that usually because we don't walk backwards yeah I love the the visual you explained about walking forwards and falling and how we're always going to be trying to stop ourselves I love that so I mean with people that I work with I see so much retraction like everybody is stuck in retraction so talk about why protraction is important my teaching protraction isn't balloon I should say are we talking about someone with a certain issue down below are we talking about scapular retraction and protraction just so everybody knows that scapula is your shoulder blade so what about Saul talk to Lena about you then you tell me I'm talking about white or sterling or we talk about narrow I'm not sure okay so let me just do this then so if we want if I want someone say a wide right yeah well they need external obliques right they're gonna need a serratus as well because we're trying to retract those ribs because they're so flared out right so I can move different attachment sites on each other right so in school we learned there is an origin insertion when really in my eyes you you there's no origin because you can't move the origin from what they're saying in the books which is incredible they still teach that so if you think about the origin insertion of the scapula right if you're just doing normal movement of the scapulae yours reaching right but the origin on those ribs right they couldn't possibly move good they know they can we just need to learn how to exhale a good exhalation as well as reaching and then also Co contracting with those abdominals to pull those ribs back and that will start to narrow that likes to close off that angle that's from here now trying to close it off right because I want this angle down here well versus a narrow angle is gonna be more closed in general so that could be a lot of females and I would say in general those are just the differences so those people that are wide might be very compressed anterior to posterior so they might be fun if I'm this guy picture I just smashed him with two rocks from front and back he would he would squish out sideways which is why all the body builders empower doctors have big lats right they got lats like a breathing like that right there compressing there's their body like a yes like a tube they're compressing them and then they live there because they don't know anything else um and so like the vice versa would be for someone who might be an arrow could easily be just the opposite where they could be compressed this way so they might stick out more here I see ribbed flares from those people a lot of times I see I see everything it's crazy there's never really just that one person it's always there always a combination of so many things but you'll you'll be taught that this person's either depressed or you know they're expanded or they have a wide angle or narrow angle but honestly I see everything I see a combination and everybody I'd actually love to see the super compress to the super Narrows because then I know exactly what they do with them no matter what even though I've seen a few of them but you know I just think everyone's a little bit different but we all need a little bit of everything when it comes to that but those those reaches for for numerous planes of motion right so not retracting the ribs I could also use the serratus to help shift me over to one side all right but if that person is let's say a flat back right so their spines already forward okay they need to send their back ribs back and we use a reach for that okay right are you using your using that right yeah which ones are you typically doing um I've been playing with the right arm reach to help for anybody with like superior t4 to pulled the these cool so with that then we got we got that uh subclavius that's just killing us right I have it I'm a t4 anytime I want I want to be it's uh it's tough you know we love to use this help help us breathe instead of understanding how to contract the abdominals and the hamstrings gluts down below - you know inhibit certain things and if we just understood how to do that we probably wouldn't have these issues but we live in a world where we're constantly putting our head down a text on our phone and I know I do it every second of the day so when I'm doing that I'm already clogging my airway so if I'm now restricting my airway from say I'm doing it anything a chin tuck or just head down I'm restricting my airflow so what am I going to do to breathe better I'm gonna call on these neck muscles to help and they're gonna constantly work they're gonna constantly pull up those first few rib and I'm gonna have a lot of issues with that SCM specially on the right those scalenes and it's just gonna wreak havoc on me so I need certain reaches certain sensations down below as well to help get me out of this and tell these guys that they don't need to help as much as they do on their their accessory muscles for a reason they're there to help a little bit when needed not 24 hours a day but if we breathe with our mouths we're gonna do them all the time yeah yeah that you definitely just covered that was really good maybe let's talk about why posterior tilt is important too so um I posted just a video last week on that if you've seen that I'm sure you've seen that ready thought yeah so that's just again it's it's positioning my pelvis to have a favorable spot for air flow to go that's all its really doing I'm trying to block off certain certain movements so that when I do inhale air has to go somewhere of course there's other ways of compensating around that and cheating even if I put myself in a posterior tilt it doesn't make me a good breather it doesn't allow expansion where I need it but what it does is it gives me the chance the better chance to experience certain expansion and in places that I normally don't get it because I'm so used to pushing air right to my belly instead of say getting air to my right chest wall or even both chest walls if people are missing in general rotation on their shoulders all I do is get them to properly expand both their chest walls and all the sudden their internal rotation is fully back it's like it's amazing you're thinking I didn't even touch your your shoulder and how is it possible like well you know it's just what you're doing I'm getting you to expand your chest or like well I already chest breathe and these are like the people who don't understand respiration so they're already chest breathing like I just think there's a misconception on what chest breathing is um because your chest breathing is also your chest out which is the same thing as thoracic extension moving towards extension so I'm not going to be able to fully stretch these walls here when I'm doing that let's see a couple other things that I see I can tell you since we're on the topic of just kind of how we can compensate people will use that six-pack by the sternum as a I could say it in many ways I guess as a protective mechanism maybe because their body doesn't feel safe when they're in a certain position trying to breathe if their sternum wants to drop down and they keep that six-pack working up here they're gonna ya me they're gonna miss they're gonna miss internal rotation they're not going to get expansion their necks are gonna kick on like crazy and that's gonna happen 25,000 times each day and as long as that keeps going on you can better believe the issues are gonna start arising whenever it whenever it happens but if you can't tell that six-pack and that sternum to rest in a good spot instead of that flex spot when they're doing that posterior tilt you're gonna struggle and and then you might feel it so you might feel like you're putting them in a certain position say in 90 90 I see that a lot where the six-pack will turn on in 90 90 right or in all four that's another common one because the people want to just round their spine actually whether they're trying to get air into their back ribs or you know they're just trying to feel hamstrings without extending their body isn't ready for that six-packs gonna turn on and it's gonna keep going no matter what you do until you back them off and teaching just how to like calm down because that that a root at the root of all this it's just neurology we're just trying to find a way to get you to relax it's the same thing as if I were to take say FRC I say I'm doing just a lacrosse ball mobilization on my quad or something like that they're ramping up and then they're trying to get your muscle to relax it's really just stepping it down to it all it's neurology you know we're trying to find ways to get our body to relax and toned down so I don't think there's one way to do it I just think I just know respirations away that significantly works for me and putting them in different positions when other positions fail or they're not comfortable that's the big thing and knowing when they do that is is key to being effective and efficient in my treatments or if I'm training someone since I do both right so yeah that's it awesome yeah I hope that is learning a ton from this it's super great information thank you okay so you sound like you read a lot and you study a lot so what is something you're reading currently or that you've read booth oh my god that you've read recently that you think that other people may enjoy cool good one well recently I've been reading this thing called building my own website this very much that's been recently um let's see I grabbed before you yeah been reading this link all the stuff in the show notes to like it so just ways to understand how to UM you know I used to take feedback really bad from people I can tell you right now so understanding when you're talking to is a big thing whether it's your your boss family member anything of the sort and just understanding that maybe they're thinking something different when they're telling you this but you might feel I mean I'm like I feel like why you talk to me like that you know but now I've now I look at it from this angle with think books like this there's a million books out there that can help you understand things like that how does not think things personal how to just try to be empathetic to others and understand how they could just be thinking differently but this has been huge for me and also the way that I'm talking to my my clients because I could have mark over here who I could just I know I can just drill him with certain hard words verse got over here I just can't talk to you that way right what motivates both of them is something different so I got to know what motivates both of them and make sure that I can make those adjustments in between sessions or even if it's like an online client you know there's certain things I just got a adapt to so this book has been really cool it's of course it's not anything an ad means that but it's my it was my weaker suit that I've been trying to get better at so just studying things like this has definitely helped me as a person that's great cool yeah it's a unique one as far as like what we've had suggested from people so cool I'm gonna look into that with sure um so what do you current what's your training currently like as far as your personal like movement each day what are you into um just I barely lift I live I live three times a week I would say I'm in the gym seven days a week don't worry but it's because I'm messing around doing things for myself for work I'm creating you of exercises um that's how I study now I'm just a nerd or saw I am blessed enough to have a couple gyms around me when I I go to a certain gym that I pay for a membership for but I also work at independently for certain gyms so I can go there as well so I do that and I just basically I'm I'm trying to just move better and understand how I can make these these shape changes in someone in myself of course but then trying to I'll even ask people were in Lynne gym hey you got ten minutes or free I'll just work with them for ten minutes to I'll just see what their what they're missing and things like that so when it comes to that beside that I would say I am I'm a quick get in the gym guy I like to do a full body workout regardless of what I'm doing unfortunately just not the time to work on getting massive like I used to I think I've been 185 pounds for the last six years and I haven't changed at all so what I'm doing is something that's just kept me where I'm at so I'm gonna be happy with it I do an upper body lower body and usually a push-pull and then a lower body but I can tell you that I'm always doing a whole body thing regardless what I'm doing so that's just kind of what I'm doing with my lifts but it's funny I would say I'll say this because I haven't said this before say I'm going up a staircase right there's not a single set of stairs that I do not climb where I'm I'm completely loading the right side that I'm thinking about going too low and the less I'll jump up to the right jump up to the left I look like I'm just jumping side to side freaking out but it's really because I'm just working on how I can feel certain things and now I know I'm a nerd maybe not that obvious but I'm constantly like because I always have problems feeling like I feel like I am turned to my right in my pelvis at least like my right sides way easier to engage than my left and I just feel like my left femur is like shoved into my like kind of internally rotated and also immediately any way people are gonna die with this episode sorry nerds but I'm like constantly trying to feel that left side so I guess I'm bad I'm 42 I got like a 40-pound backpack I carry around all day with my laptop and all this stuff and I'm just running up the subway stairs with all these people just staring at me I'm just like well if you've seen the subways in New York City you know there's a lot of strange individuals so yeah it's not like I'm any different from anyone else so it's not quite the same that's alright I'll do it anyway so we asked everybody this question what do you do to move your brain and move your body but you just talked about what you do to move your body so what do you do to move your brain well you kind of just talked about both but what's something different do them simultaneously which is actually that I think most people should do I do I do my my breathing method which is the wim HOF method so there's a lot of different things that go into that and how you do it no idea you did that now yeah and I never didn't talk about this word know I was so close to four years ago I heard about wim HOF and I was big into him like what is this like there's no way this guy just got injected with a virus purposely and fought it off like that's not possible and of course I was biased and now I'm just like there's just that's incredible witnessed I can do and he can teach everybody so for myself I started doing it and whether it was a placebo or not I can tell you every time I felt sick I immediately went to my breath cycles and I did a whole three four cycles and I wake up the next day completely normal felt nothing and I was a firm believer from day one after I felt the first episode of what you feel that you fort afterwards it's incredible so I also have on flipside I would say I also have a certain way of looking at it because they the way they do it is they'll do quick breaths in like hyperventilate like this and what's happening so the nerd and me isn't getting extending my spine yeah so I'm constantly holding that down so that's the only alter uh I guess modification I make with it III just make sure I contain a little bit of Domino control when I'm doing it so I don't know if it's for everybody but I definitely know it works especially if you expose yourself to the cold afterwards that has been a big thing I was scared to do my nervous system would go haywire it would just freak out and then I got used to it and I did a little more or a little colder every day the showers I would do or the ice baths and before you knew it I was getting in full high stubbs like and I was hot and it's it's it's real like if you just train your mind to it you get used to it that's and that's where wim HOF did you know cuz his wife been suicide a very long time ago that so that's why from depression and that's why he went on a he went on a rampage don't find out how he can cure depressions is why I started at all and he's done that like he's already been scientifically proven to not a testator tap into your brain as he would say basically control your immunity right your emotions your state what is of course that you know that comes with at all if he does movement he does playing music so all these things they're just chasing a certain state a mental state and it's a positive state and that will take you out of any type of depression that your might be feeling and now he's backed by science so he if you listen to him talk he sounds crazy if you haven't please go listen to him he's incredible but when you understand you're like whoa this guy probably had no clue what he was doing but he did something right and he's now proving it because when you hear him talk here's you don't believe it but don't you see the evidence it's crazy it's like people can't well I don't know I mean I guess it does sound kind of crazy but if you think about it like when you're depressed it doesn't just like happen all of a sudden it's like a slow gradual onset and then your body does certain things with that your immune systems like everything you do whether it's like how you're thinking which affects how you move all that I mean that's gonna affect you're late your blood flow everything and it makes total sense that you could also on the flip side reverse that with enough focus but I think I mean he's I actually I've only really only heard about him on like Tim Ferriss and I'm sure Joe Rogan and all the like podcasts that he said actually I think another podcast I listen to but I've never really looked in him that that closely so I actually am gonna know media until I mean old water please yeah I would give you any permission if we're interested we'll have to do the cycles together sometime because it's crazy the feeling the sensation you get afterwards is just insane and you can when you can find out that you can hold your breath after exhaling fully for like I've done up to like three and a half minutes to where I felt calm after a full exhale it blows your mind to think how can I exhale and then not breathe for three and a half minutes without being stressed you know but you have to build right yeah and it just goes to show you know we don't we don't tap into our brains like we probably can so it's a it's a beautiful thing to see wow that's awesome well the way to leave this podcast I think yeah where can people find you if they want a session with you if they want to do online work how can people find you sure so of course the rehab process on Instagram same with Facebook Twitter it's gonna be the same just messaged me on there the rehab process at gmail.com is my email I got a few locations in Manhattan as well as one in Brooklyn that I can train people at whether it's for pains rehab I can I love treating any any end of the spectrum see if you have pain that's cool I can help you out if you don't have pain you're just looking to move better I got you you're just trying to get strong I can do that as well so I'd love to love to work with anybody I'm and I continue to speak with you Alina so I'm glad awesome you had me on here thank you so ya know I'm so glad to have you you've been like kind of mentoring me the last couple months I have learned so much and it's been great so we of course wanted you on the show so Q so glad