Unfound Live August 7, 2023: Steve Pankey Letter, FL Fugitive Caught, Answered Questions

foreign hello everyone hello hello hello everybody this is unfound live for August 7th 2023 I hope everybody has had a great week since the last time we got together uh if you are of course watching live right here on Monday night you can see that I am back in Florida I'm back at my humble abode I don't know how you say condo in Spanish but um back here I've been back here since Wednesday night and it was a good flight it's good to be back no drama to talk about with a an Uber ride or anything and so I'm back in the swing of things getting work done and here to talk to all of you I want to remind all of you to hit the Thumbs Up Button during the show tonight if you are on YouTube that is but if you are watching on Facebook do what you can uh if you can hit uh I don't know if there's a heart button or whatever else if you are in the discussion group watching or on the page watching do whatever you can over there to make sure everybody knows how much you love this live live show in addition maybe you are tuning in for the first time so uh maybe uh you need to subscribe to this channel of course any of you on Facebook will have to go to YouTube to do that but I try to make it as easy as uh possible by posting the uh be putting the little uh subscribe button down there in the bottom right hand corner although the overlay uh may be disguising it but it is there and also uh as the uh the overlay for tonight anyway of course says if you like this content please press the Super Chat button which is down there once again this is a YouTube feature down at the bottom below the chat it's a little square with a dollar sign in it so if you'd like to do that I would also appreciate it and um there you go so uh got some of the business out of the way and I want to thank my assistant Cherie for moderating uh this evening she is logged in here to a stream yard of course this is what week three or week four uh of using this and it's going smoothly pretty smoothly so far although I will tell you that um now that I'm back in Florida and I guess have more time on my hands I'm gonna be messing around with this a little bit more as far as uh being able to use more of the features in stream yard so as to um you know take greater use of all the features compared to how limited it kind of was um when I was just you know using YouTube and using the YouTube Studio features but I have a great uh show for you tonight got a lot to talk about and uh if you've seen uh the subjects uh for tonight's live show you do see in the title that it says Steve Panky letter so you may be wondering about that and yes I do have a letter from Steve Panky that I am going to read on the air tonight this will be the first time that it is uh public and I got it uh it was sent to me while I was in Pennsylvania I got it when I got back and although I've told my assistants about it and they've seen it this will be the first time it is being made uh available to all of you I'm going to read it and of course I'm going to talk about so you have a few things uh that to look forward to tonight uh as for my voice my voice is a lot better than it sounds this is just going to be one of those things where um as I continue to do my singing practicing and everything I think my voice is just going to be like this sometimes uh but surely it's better if you might remember like three weeks ago I or maybe a month ago I did a uh live where my voice was totally shot I would not say that my voice is totally shot I would say uh that my voice is uh kind of like when you lift weights and your muscles are sore but that's the only way to make your muscles bigger or stronger whatever else that's what's going on with my voice so let's see who is in here uh tonight and I will move on to some other things uh everything uh hello to you everything Macy so good to see you Macy thank you for becoming a YouTube uh member for this channel uh thank you so very much that is why uh Macy it says Macy I'm not going to say her last name on the air but she is a new member thank you so much hello Karen hello Melody Sharon oh another Australian good to see you Sharon and Lisa's taking a break from mowing the grass I mowed a little bit of grass in my day hello Deborah and thank you for the super sticker Deborah thank you so much good to see you Charlotte Kathy Mark what's going on Mark and nephew uh uh Charlie uh is that you nephew Charlie and uh or maybe not maybe it's uh no I think that's actually that's you right uh my nephew is Charles and you're Charlie correct just uh to make sure I got these uh don't want to get these mixed up um gas mower for Lisa hello Suzanne CR what's going on Carrie assistant Carrie good to see you got um Patty uh yeah everybody's in her twinkle good to see you twinkle and Patricia for uh recent guest Patricia good to see you Angie and Puma yeah Puma where you been um good day I I don't know if I've uh but it's good to see you in the chat so hello to everybody um just a couple other things I need to send out a couple of birthday shout outs one uh needs to go uh to my uh one of my best friends of all time long long long long long time uh best friend going back to even before our teen years and that's my buddy Doug um some of you may remember that um he and I went to the Iron Maiden concert can't believe it's been four years now I don't know where the time goes but um we went to the Iron Maiden concert four years ago and then also later that year in September he and I my dad and Doug's son um uh all went to Canada so his birthday is today and I hope he's having a fantastic one and uh another birthday today is uh ex-girlfriend but still friend Suzanne her birthday is today as well and uh it was interesting back at that time when Suzanne and I were a thing my best friend and my girlfriend both had the same birthday so of course that only happened technically for one year given but you know that's you don't run into that maybe uh too often but yes at one point my girlfriend and my best friend had the same birthday although they were born in different years so I need to give a shout out to uh to Doug and to Suzanne and speaking of birthdays I celebrated one uh last Tuesday and I think I was properly worshiped you know I got a lot of um happy birthday wishes and I I felt valued and I and I felt needed which is nice and I'm just going to um show you a couple things uh from my birthday my dad took me to Wendy's for my birthday and uh so there you go that was last Tuesday but once I got back to Florida I got this very cool card from Kathy and it says uh four out of five cats don't care can you see that uh it's weird there we go four out of five cats don't care that it's your birthday and then there's I don't want to show what you read everything but okay it's actually five out of five but I care and that's all that matters that was a birthday card uh from listener Kathy right there like I said with the the way this camera works there you go you can see it right there and also uh twinkle got me this hold on a second got me this very very cool shirt and once again I don't know if how it's gonna come out given that I blur the background and everything yet but look at this shirt how about this so it's the American flag and a disc golf basket is where the field of stars are so uh I haven't worn it yet but uh maybe I'll wear it to trivia this week we'll just have to see but I've got this very very cool shirt uh you know anything that's gonna have disc golf on it uh is very cool to me so those are just a couple of the things uh that I got so Kathy and twinkle thank you so very much I did get uh some other cards my brother Michael got me a gift certificate my dad uh actually did give me some cash and things but uh we we didn't do a special uh dinner or anything for my uh birthday um we had gone uh to one of my plays favorite places it's like a Chinese buffet it's not like it is a Chinese buffet near where he lives so that was kind of the big meal uh for my two weeks of being home and so like I said on the day it was August 1st we went out and we went to Wendy's and he bought so uh there you go that was my birthday and now yes I am 53 years old who would uh thunk it so there you go um I want to remind everybody if you're watching as you're watching if you want to um ask me any questions to uh tonight I do have some questions to answer I have three questions at least two answers so if any of you have any questions you want to ask about anything it does not have to be unfound related but anything that you find interesting that you want to comment on as long as it's not too personal as long as it's not politics or religion I will attempt to answer it so uh who else um Shri says I'm Charlie with a picture of my mom is that your mother Shri okay got it all right and um Deborah says you slide shy boy yeah that reminds me of that David Lee Ross song Deborah uh Shy Boy Shy Boy Shy Boy Shy Boy um thank yeah it's a nice shirt uh Lisa you're right Deborah yeah that on tweak was very good taste hey uh Ed it's Alec thanks for chatting last night glad to finally catch this live again Alec good to see you good talking to you last night as well hello Julie coffee um okay I'll answer that question uh right now good to see you by the way coffee coffee asks what has been your biggest surprise since starting unfound uh my biggest surprise coffee is that it's lasted this long that's my biggest surprise and I think that will always be uh the biggest surprise regarding um what I do here uh that it's still around of course we're coming up on the seventh anniversary over 300 disappearances covered 365 episodes um that is the biggest surprise good question uh yeah thank you Alec hit the thumbs up because nothing and it does help me out so thank you for reminding everybody Alec all right let's get to say what I'm gonna answer just to make sure I get to all of the questions uh they're asked of me tonight I'm gonna answer one of them right now and this first one comes from Lorenzo and I guess I should say that um Lorenzo I think is the brother of Eric Alvarado remember that's a disappearance I think we covered back in 2019 you may remember that um he lived in Texas and then his car was eventually found out of the state line in Arkansas you might also remember that his dogs got killed and that his shoes were found by the car and and the keys were hanging on a fence um and if you haven't listened to that episode uh please track it down and listen to it at your earliest convenience but I believe that Lorenzo who is asking this question uh is Eric's brother so the question is um how can people that get away quote unquote get away with murder go on to live a normal and sometimes a successful life with family Lorenzo uh it might uh Kathy says it's mapular that you may be right Kathy I know I know it's a close relation of um maybe it is Eric's dad um but that is the question that lorenda Lorenzo asks uh Lorenzo if you're out there if you're listening or you're gonna watch this at some later time um if I had an answer to that I think we could solve a lot of uh Earth's problems um that is uh of you know it's a philosophical question that I don't have an answer for um you know we all like to think if we believe in such things that people who do bad things on this planet and never uh are brought to Justice we we hope that there is something after this life in which these people do get their comeuppance of course we all may be wrong we just don't you know I know people have faith out there and everything else but um you know I think still being that we're here we're looking for justice here and um the only thing I could really else you know say about that Lorenzo is that there's just a lot of people out there who don't have consciences and not only that I'm convinced that a lot of these people who do these things feel righteous in what they did uh you know not only do they not have a conscience but they think what they did in causing somebody's disappearance was the right thing to do so they actually may think that they are on actually the the morally correct side that is um I I certainly believe that's true um you know I certainly believe for example in some of these disappearances where women have gone missing mothers or wives have gone missing and we are to think that the husbands uh did something to the wives and you know even though they have kids together and everything I'm sure that these husbands feel absolutely justified in what they did of course they're wrong but in their minds uh they think what they did was right they think that these women needed to to die and then make them disappear that everybody would be better off if they weren't around or you know these guys are just looking out for themselves and they have no consciences it's it's a lot of things put together um but on the other hand just as we've learned recently with the Michael Turney trial that sometimes you can want Justice maybe a little too much and in wanting Justice too much the person who probably did you know caused The Disappearance gets off and with Michael Turney he is a free man you know there's really nothing they can bring against him anymore he has been acquitted so I think it's then possible sometimes to want Justice to want resolution and everything I think we're we're finding that you can have you can want that too much and wanting it too much can then bring about exactly the opposite of what you want so it's a very fine line so you know looking into this question a little deeper uh I realized I I mean I will be honest with Eric Alvarado's disappearance I don't believe that there was Foul Play I can understand if Eric's family believes that I'm not here to argue with them but uh being that Lorenzo is asking the question if he believes that Eric was murdered and that somebody did it you know I fully support if they think somebody did it to go after that person but what you don't want to get into is a situation where somebody's eventually charged but there's really no proof it's just circumstantial and then it gives a jury or even a judge in Michael Turney's case the opportunity to let that person off to the point where no trial is possible again so you just have to be very very careful about this stuff and um you know it very well may be also um that these people believe that yep I murdered somebody I meant to do it I know it was the wrong thing to do but come that Judgment Day if such a thing uh actually exists I'll just repent and uh you know I'll know in my heart that you know um what I did was wrong and I'll be for forgiving my for my sin and that would be that I'm no Theologian and I stay away from religion and everything but trust me I'm I'm guessing some Killers think like that so there's a lot that goes into answering that question that um you're asking Lorenzo but uh I feel for you I I wish that Eric Eric's disappearance was already solved I realized that um your family thinks that there was foul play um but just don't hope too much you have to keep doing the work that you need to do to try to figure out what happened to him but uh you don't want to get into a situation like what happened with uh The Disappearance of Alyssa Turney you really really have to um be careful of that um let me uh see here um uh twinkle asked me I don't think I've ever heard the story about how you came to name the podcast unfound um you know twinkle wasn't easy uh you know I threw around a lot of different ideas I knew that I wanted it to be something short I knew that you know that I didn't want it to be more than one word uh if I could have uh made it just one syllable I would have done that um but uh I came across that word because even though it's not a very common word in the English language of course it's a word but I think when people see that word they think of like the word unfounded which means you know to think something which really has no basis it's you know your thoughts are unfounded um but I think it's it's appropriate because of course all of the people who uh are interviewed for unfound are trying to find they're they're missing loved one their friend a daughter a son a parent um and these people are still unfound people out there searching for them people trying to find them but these missing people still have not been found so they're unfound that's how I came up with it I can tell you it took me more than one day um to come up with a name and uh it's uh I think it still works seven years later so I'm happy about that uh so twinkle great question um don't know if I've ever answered I probably have answered that question before but I don't remember doing so it seems like an obvious question that somebody would have asked by now uh but thank you for reminding me of it twinkle uh coffee as far as disappearances what were you most surprised about like for me I was surprised so many men disappeared uh I'll come back to that coffee uh thank you Julie um Julie I say they may look their life is good for them but I bet they look over their shoulder all the time uh these people have come who've caused these disappearances um Maybe Deborah but like I said um I think a lot of them are very self-righteous in what they've done they don't think they go to um you know they deserve to go to jail and even if something is tried to be pinned on them they'll have some rational explanation for why they did what they did um Facebook user says Ed do you have a belief in or an opinion on the stories of UFOs and non-human biological matter uh I do um I'm not a believer in UFOs um I certainly don't believe that um all this stuff that's been going on for a while now regarding our UFOs or things from other planets in fact I'm not even convinced it's like some high-tech super secret government spy program with or anything I I think it's a lot of confirmation bias I think it's a lot of equipment that is uh malfunctioning I think it's our uh people's eyes Playing Tricks on the I it's a lot of things put together and you know as I've stated you know here living at the beach and being able to go up my balcony and look at the dark sky and you know I see a lot of stars I see a lot of planets and everything else and it's very easy for me to understand why when you see like the planet Venus or Jupiter in the night sky at certain times the people could think well that's a jet with its lights on it's not people are making uh mistakes about things in the sky all the time so um I'm not convinced uh of any of any of that uh I think that um all this stuff like the testimony in front of Congress these people I believe it's I personally believe that this is the government's way of rooting out um people who uh are leakers I believe that this is a test of them we're gonna you know they think that there might be people who are leaking information out so they create the most outrageous story possible and they see if it gets out and that's how they figure out who uh who the people are who can't keep their mouth shut regarding real government secret programs whether it has to do with the military or whatever else they just create the most outrageous story ever and see where it pops out likely any of us have done you know if you've ever not trusted somebody the quickest way to find out who you can trust and who you can't trust is just to tell the most outrageous story about somebody and say you know what I'm just going to tell you don't tell anybody you know and lead the person on us to believe well I'm going to be telling some other people but you only tell that person and see if the story gets back to you and I think that's what's going on here as far as the Navy pilots and things you can watch uh YouTube videos I would go to CW lemoyne's channel YouTube channel he's a good guy former fighter pilot on YouTube it's l-e-m-o-i-n-e he has a discussion group on their video with some other fighter pilots they are totally totally cynical about the entire thing so um I'm gonna prefer to believe them and being that they were the ones they were retired now but they were the ones at one time or another who were responsible for defending this country and you know what they think of the video and everything else you know they talk about Radars making mistakes and new software and everything make it seeing all sorts of things that aren't out there so uh if they're gonna think that that's what I believe too hello Deborah I believe ahead of you they find new evidence against Michael Turney could they bring new charges against them nope um yeah good to see you Facebook user the name is Katya definitely like it think it fits thank you uh thank you twinkle uh Deborah gries the no conscience oh a test I yeah I see what you're saying I'm not quite convinced either way I like to know smart people's opinions I don't know if we'll ever know thanks for answering it you're welcome I just never really believed in UFOs um I think it is curious also on top of everything else that it doesn't seem like other countries are having uh UFO discussions in front of their Parliament or whatever else we're the only people doing this that should tell you something I mean really these UFOs are just coming down and only being seen by the United States it's crazy and unfortunately we live in a time where people see uh a chance for their 15 minutes of fame yeah I want to want to government engine for the government uh designing you know top secret uh aircraft but what I really want to do is I really want to be a social media influencer so I'm going to get out there with my UFO story this is a huge problem we have in our culture today too many people taking up jobs so they then can start their uh their social media careers I'm a flight attendant but what I really want to be as a social media influencer I'm a pilot but what I really want to be is a YouTube Star I'm an engineer but we have a huge problem like that right now huge huge problem so this also um you know is on my mind as well Deborah says I believe in you it says not martians okay all right Deborah Patricia says call me crazy uh she believes in UFOs too okay Patricia I won't hold that against you all right so got some questions answered let's get uh to some of the things that I've uh lined up for tonight uh first I want to go to the Brenda Lambert poll of course that was The Disappearance uh that we just covered this past Friday you know that I do an update on the poll just to let all of you know um what the answers uh were and uh 72 percent in the discussion group have decided that Brenda's cousin whose name was Tammy that was Raymond's next wife you might remember that she was at the birthday party Uninvited that night does Tammy know what happened to Brenda 72 percent of the people in the discussion group said yes and in the think tank once again uh the think tank is patreon.com forward slash unfound podcast um kind of the same I really was not I have to admit that topic was really not a major one for the think tank last night uh we covered a lot of different topics but we didn't spend too much time on that so uh hard to say if it was much different than the discussion group answer I think it makes a lot of sense that she would know but I'm also open to the idea that she didn't I mean shortly back uh when The Disappearance happened she had to have been thinking wow that sure is convenient here I am uh The Other Woman and then uh my cousin who is married to the the man who's mistress I am goes missing boy that sure is convenient for me boy that's sure nice for me she had she had to know I mean you know and of course we have to be open to the idea maybe what maybe Raymond had nothing to do with this disappearance at all maybe it was Tammy who initiated this disappearance something to think about so that is the Brenda Lambert poll and of course I do those I I post those every Saturday morning uh the day after the episode comes out and if you're not a part of the discussion group please um go there and uh ask to be let in in myself or one of the moderators will allow you to join up into the group because if you're not in the group you cannot see what goes on there uh let's see what everybody else is saying here uh coffee says like the doctor in Ohio who lost her license I think I know what you're talking about their coffee um Facebook user says definitely hard to know who to trust these days but interdimensional traveling so neat to think about we don't know everything about everything just interesting uh it's certainly interesting uh but you know there's uh certainly a lot of interesting things that aren't true so I don't know but just so they say if you have Rh negative a b blood type then you are part alien is that right uh Patricia I really I have to admit off the top of my head I don't even know what my blood type is uh yeah patreon.com forward slash unfound podcast if you'd like to support what we do here uh all the content that is provided on unfound the podcast this YouTube channel everything else uh comes through your support whether through the Super Chat button that you can hit right now or hitting the join button on YouTube or at patreon.com or we can't forget PayPal paypal.me forward slash unfound podcast they saw Patricia says they based this on the recorded abductions reported uh yeah uh you know Patricia as you would expect I'm not a believer in those abductions it seems like only the you know uh people who are a little touched or something uh they seem to be the only ones who get abducted uh when somebody likes my like myself gets abducted and then has a story maybe I will start changing my mind about UFOs moving on um I put out a new unfound now today just a couple hours ago and it is The Disappearance of K Alana Turner now this is uh uh the first time that I've done this but I um spoke to her parents yesterday this is the first time that I've ever spoken to the parents I'm a missing person before the unfound now episode came out of course we've turned a couple of unfound now disappearances into regular episodes Jason Landry um of course Bow Man uh was another one this is the first time where I've talked to the parents before I did the unfound noun on how that came about was that friend of the program uh of course host of his own YouTube channel John lordon contacted me last week and he has already done two videos on kealana's uh disappearance from Tomball Texas uh back in March and John asked me you know can you help these people out it's a disappearance It's relatively new what can you do for them I said sure I'll talk to them so we talked yesterday and being that I had not done a uh unfound now yet for July and of course it kind of um was difficult to do uh with everything uh with being in Pennsylvania and trying to manage my time there and everything um finally waited till I got back here talked to them yesterday learned a lot about Carolina a lot which I can't make public just because it was a private conversation and then today I did the unfound now episode that you can now find on unfound channel I just automatically made it public for everyone now of course the other weird thing about it is this is a disappearance that goes back to March so as you know of course three years into unfound now I usually like to pick one that's like within a month or two you know prior um kind of um went outside my own roles a little bit um but I thought it was worth it and I really did not have a disappearance picked out yet anyway for an unfound now so being that I talked to them thought I could help them out and I tried to give them the best advice that I could yesterday while talking to them and um so that's why today wrote out what I wanted to say and um that is now out for everybody so I hope you will check it out and she went missing uh certainly a young woman going through some mental health issues not of not all of our own making and she was sleeping in her car in a stranger's driveway she wouldn't leave a police officer showed up he broke the window of her car she took off in her car went through a fence went through the woods or whatever I think the car wrecked or something she jumped out ran off never to be seen again and of course they've done searches with dogs and helicopters everything and uh still like what is it now six months later something like that she is still missing so that is the newest unfound now episode please check it out please give it um a thumbs up if you could and thank you for posting that kaylana Turner on unfound now thank you for posting that Cherie Alex says to be fair few of the people testifying this here is our military Air Force veterans I don't really know what to believe about the whole deal though uh I realize that Alec all I would tell you is to um like I said check out CW lemoyne's YouTube channel and he has a zoom uh conference with some of his uh retired uh military aviators whether in Air Force or the Navy talking about all of this and you will be able to tell that and the thing is they know some of these people who are testifying and all of these guys are a bit cynical about the whole thing so you know you listen to them uh check it out um Patricia says I do not think Raymond definitely killed Brandy he was such a controlling and abusive husband I do oh Patricia I do think yeah it's a very popular Theory uh Patricia dare I say dare I say uh and Deborah agrees with you Patricia so go check that out kaylana Turner uh I don't think there's any reason to believe that she is deceased um of course we've been surprised this year with Brandon Roberts and Alan Glasgow that they uh were still alive so we can only hope that K Alana is you know that happens for her as well given the situation very dicey and if she is not alive anymore if her remains are found someday I'm predicting that they're you know it's gonna they're gonna be fairly close to where uh the card was ditched I think that that's what our experience tells us um yeah yep that's true Patricia Raymond and mother was busy cleaning Brenda's home the next morning yeah uh everybody should have a mother-in-law that's so kind right Patricia Patricia okay all right uh one more thing regarding uh uh uh unfound and then I'm going to get to the Steve Panky letter I'm sure you're all very interested to hear what he had to say of course I'm gonna have to set it up with what I sent him although I'm not going to read what I sent him because some of them are you know kind of private things about my insight into Janelle's disappearance and murder and everything else but um I want to talk last Thursday I was questioned for three hours for the TV show taking the stand this is a show that that is hosted by DM Abrams although he did not interview me just one of The Producers interviewed me and it was you know I want to tell you all about this on you know if you ever want to know like behind the scenes what goes on how do they line up you know some type of show like this it was very interesting um I had been con I was contacted when I was up seeing my dad about uh the show taking the stand they're going to be doing an episode on Steve panky's trial of course he was eventually found guilty in the second trial the murder of Janelle Matthews they're going to be doing an episode of it it's not going to be coming out to like next year though so that's what they said of course I will keep you posted on that they contacted me would I be could I would I sh you know could I appear can I would I you know could I be on this show could I be questioned being that I was up on the stand on and on and on said sure so I get back here to Florida they ran out an Airbnb which is up in which was up in Palm Harbor which is like a half hour north of here I show up and it's just this little you know Beach House type of place um that somebody owns that they rent out well they rented it out and so I go in there and and they've moved all the furniture out of the way and there's um two people who I are just local here to Tampa but they've been hired to set this all up the camera's set up the lighting's all set up they set it all up so it's gonna look good um and there is um you know big camera on the tripod and there's kind of like a um teleprompter kind of thing set up so even though I'm looking at the camera I'm also seeing the face of the person who is interviewing me which is one of the producers of this of the show and it's all done through Zoom and they they wired you know they had me with a microphone they wired me with a microphone and so for three hours I sat in this chair and the the producer of this show um just asked me ask me all these questions start it like we start at like 8 30 in the morning and we went to like 11 30. and we just took like one break uh uh a somewhat short break but you know this is how they do you you know if you ever wondered if you watch these types of shows getting people on camera to talk about something now I realize I think the episode's only going to be an hour long they you know they talk to me for three hours so all my words are going to be uh you know cut up and who knows you know what they're gonna do with it but um but it was interesting I I could tell you it was a little draining now I know how some of my you know Patricia being that you were a recent guest uh now I know how some of uh unfound's guests feel when they are interviewed for like two hours two and a half hours but I thought it went really well um I would admit they asked me they asked me some questions that were a little outside of my expertise I got the feeling that they were just really asking everybody who they were interviewing all the same questions kinda um and I really really really tried to just stick to uh what I knew and um you know they you know they did ask me to do a little speculation here and there and elsewhere but it was interesting it was interesting to see how they uh kind of the behind the scenes of something like that to show up and all the cameras and you're just in this like I said an Airbnb little probably the place was no bigger than my condo here although it was a standalone building and they just turned it into a studio and um you know that's how they do it so uh three hours of me looking at this camera like right there and then seeing the face of the producer he's on zoom and he's looking his questions and doing some things and he's asking me and I'm answering and I know sometimes I would mess up and I'd start over but um it was good that's that's how they do it if you ever wondered that's how they do it they don't you know take some people to like a maybe back in the day they would have had to have done that but now with the technology you can just do everything over Zoom everything's filmed over the internet uh you know the teleprompter was some type of thing it was like a two-way mirror and then the tablet was like down like this and it would reflect and I would see the guy's face but the camera could shoot through the two-way mirror it was all very interesting to me and it also reminds me how long it's been since I was um you know involved in uh you know any sort of Film Production or anything like it's been like over 20 years and I'm thinking I'm watching this I'm like boy the technology has changed so it's called taking the stand maybe the this is a show that I think has been around for a while but from what I've told I was told it's not coming out till next year so I mean that seems like forever away now but I'm hoping being that I actually took part in it that they will let me know uh when it's coming out unlike for example 48 hours or whatever it was that just used the interview I did with Steve without my permission then it's on TV one night and you know one of my assistants says hey Ed do you know that you're on 48 hours tonight or 2020 whatever it was and they're using part of your interview and everything else and I was like what what you know what's going on here hopefully it won't be like that so let's see what everybody is saying now that I'm done uh [Music] uh but Paula uh episode uh paulazon did an episode about Janelle Matthews a few months ago it was really good yeah I think I knew that Charlotte thank you for reminding me uh yeah uh Facebook user that is what it is CW Lemoine it's l-e-m-o-i-n-e CW Lemoine is that it yes that's what it is thank you Facebook user I try to be a good interviewer uh Kathy also saw the paulison episode um thank you Kim uh thank you for saying you love this podcast and uh three hours this can be a long time could be challenging it was challenging in fact I will I will be honest um of course I had to get up early anyway because I wanted to wash my hair and make sure it was dry before I got in front of the camera so I had to get up at six in the morning which for you as you know all of you know uh I am a late to bed late to rise type of guy so I had to get up at six in the morning to take a shower wash my hair make sure it looked okay and was dry by the time I got up there and when I came home I went back to bed so yes it was a long time and yes it was challenging um so there you go all right on that topic let me uh answer one more question here I'm gonna answer uh coffee you asked me a question up here before and I um as for as far as disappearance is what we must surprised about like me for me I was surprised so many men disappeared um for me coffee I would say now having done this for seven years probably the biggest surprise for me has been all the different types of disappearances it's not something that I could have ever anticipated but as you know I I took I took uh interest in disappearance for us for a very very very very very very long time before I ever started unfound and it wasn't until really it became a job it became a 24 7 thing where I need to be to be prepared to interview people and I needed to read up on everything regarding a disappearance and go to namus and go to the Charlie project and you know really try you know to make sure when I came to this microphone that I I didn't sound like adult that I began to understand how many different kinds of disappearances there are and I think that's one of the reasons that in doing the episodes at least now I try to remind everybody of that it's become a mission you know within the last few years and of course it's very important when I've gone to speak at schools that it's important to understand that there are different types of disappearances because each type of disappearance needs to be looked at in a very unique way if it's going to be resolved and of course one of the big problems that we have and it's been going on I think since the first Disappearance in the history of this you know in the history of man ever happened is that too often uh the people investigating these disappearances look at them as always the same thing or if they do differentiate it's just a couple different categories whereas I think on unfound we've shown you know I broke them down one into six different categories in which you really have to understand them so you know what to look for and you know what questions you need to ask and what facts you should be looking for and everything else you need to be very specific or an investigation can get out of hand very quickly this is why one of the things I've stressed in uh when I've spoken to call spoken to colleges is you have to know it when you see it as an investigator when you show up to fill out that report or they come down to the headquarters or whatever and they say my son or daughter disappeared as soon as they person the person starts talking you should be thinking is what kind of disappearances is the man said disappearance do drugs play a role is it a murder but you know you know is it a very unique type is it a walk off and you should be able to you need to be able to identify it as quickly as possible so as to ask the right questions and the answers to those questions will guide what direction you're going to try to go to solve it it's not being done now it's not being done so but that's probably the biggest surprise for me coffee how many different kinds of course I think anybody who takes an interest in disappearance their mind is blown by how many there are that are unsolved for me I kind of knew that for a while now for me it's just all these different ways that people can disappear it's crazy um let me see uh ah coffee uh thank you for the question coffee um Patricia says my brother had a Star Trek party one time I used to be part of Star Trek Patricia um Deborah says it seems to me like I've never heard or remembered disappearances and or remembering disappearances um 50 or in 60. um I'm not sure what that last part of that meant Deborah maybe you want to type that out again uh uh can you post a list um I can put a list together and I'll put it in the uh Discussion Group uh or something coffee or I'll just email I of course you and I've uh talk through email why don't you send me an email reminding me and I will send you a list how about we do that all right Steve Panky letter now that we're about an hour into this and I think you've all been patient here it is right here and I'm going to read it to you but not without some context first and he did hand write it by the way you can see it um I decided long ago uh I know it's not like Whitney Houston there I decided long ago not to walk in anyone's shadow uh no but um I decided a while ago that is Steve Panky ever went to jail that I would write him and the reason that was is that I thought I could do that because you know Steve should hold nothing against me I mean I I can see Steve Madden the prosecutor mad at the investigators uh Steve probably can be mad at a lot of people however I do not I did not think that it would be rational for him to hold any ill will against me and certainly he shouldn't hold any ill will against me since he got convicted given you know for for example what I've said on this live show and me expressing a lot of doubts whether the prosecution really proved its case or not all right so and when it comes to the interview Steve did with me he's basically got to say anything he wanted I can't help it the prosecution ended up using that interview against him that's on him that's not on me and when I got up and testified in both trials I told the truth I did not I don't think I disparaged Steve in any way and in fact uh I think that publicly I've said Steve and I got along perfectly fine although I only ever talked to him once on the phone then that was the time we did the interview all of the communications that I had with him over the email were respectful every one of them so in my mind I could write him and not feel like um you know it had to be well you know Steve let's buygones be bygones I know we didn't get along and everything but now I want to uh pump you for information I didn't feel like that at all I thought that I could write him and that if he was really being honest about the professional relationship he and I had that he that he should respect me I may not want to reply but there was no reason that I could come up with that I shouldn't write him that anything to do with ethics or anything else I was I I think that I was in a very good place in deciding to write him because I really didn't think I wronged him in any way so finally gotten got around to do that uh in July uh of course he got convicted back in October of last year but it seems like you know the way I remembered he was like in one jail and I was going to write him a while ago but you know I there was some you can go look and find any prisoner in the state of Colorado but I got the feeling he might be getting moved or something and so I wanted to make sure that didn't happen in case I sent him something and he had moved and then didn't get my message or whatever so I waited for until he was surely in the place where he's going to stay live out his years and I finally wrote him a letter I didn't write it out now he wrote me by hand I typed mine out because uh first of all I had a lot to say and my handwriting is horrible if you want to see bad handwriting I mean I'm a great speller and I'm great with punctuation and everything else but when it comes to actually writing the letters forget it horrible so I'm a horrible artist too but um so I just sat down and I typed it out it was pretty long and I'm not going to read all of it to you but there have been a lot there's been a lot on my mind regarding Janelle matthews's murder and the trial and everything else and I kind of in you know to put it figuratively I kind of just threw up all of my thoughts and ideas and questions into this file typed it all out you know there's still a lot of things I don't understand about for example why was it that her bones from the knees and down were never found I don't understand it's still hard for me to put the sequence of events together of how she was abducted from her home and when this person would have had time to rake over the footprints you know was she waiting in the car was she already dead a lot of things up in this head of mind that I had a lot of time to think about and so I sent that to Steve and sent it out I said you know I don't know if he's gonna reply he's gonna reply maybe I'll get some answers to some of these things uh so we'll see and I sent that out right before I went to Pennsylvania which was what July 19th or something like that in fact I think I mailed it um I think I mailed it the day before uh I flew to Pennsylvania pretty sure well Steve wrote me back so soon that when I got back to Florida this letter was waiting for me so he must have gotten it and right away written back to me okay now I'm gonna tell you that he didn't answer a lot of the questions that I asked I don't know if we're supposed to be surprised by that or not but I'm going to read this to you now that you know kind of all the setup and I realized that uh they probably read all of his mail I know that anything that I write them and I do intend on writing back to him um I know that everything that I send probably is read first I don't care and I'm sure everything that he gets writes um probably gets read too just in case we're not you know sharing top secrets or something so I'm going uh to read this to you so the Steve Panky letter and it says Ed and it's titled Steve panky's 1984. orwellian nightmare that's what he wrote and by the way just so we're clear um he did give me permission he said Ed if you this is what it Ed if you are really and I'll get into this if you're really a victims advocate do more podcasts publicly publicly share what I said in page one so I have permission from him to read this all right so don't don't you think that um he said you know we got to keep the secret I'm gonna read it it's right here in the the right here in his writing I'm allowed to make this public so number one he writes consider the Janelle Matthews case tragic but not Criminal because um you know I don't you know this you know this isn't really in direct response to anything in particular I think that I wrote but you have to remember I'm writing to a guy who um you know I'm not even sure that he murdered Janelle Matthews so I just can't write him and say well we know you did it Steve why did you do it you know and you know and all of this stuff can't do that the case is circumstantial I know what the jury said they very well may be right but there's certainly no scientific proof that Steve killed Janelle in fact that came out last week when I was being interviewed by taking the stand so his first comment is consider the Janelle Matthews case tragic but not Criminal number two uh you can see it it's so weird with this so number two my knowledge if any came after the fact assuming Janelle's death was accidental and her body hidden in the city of New Ramer now I will tell you uh this is the first time that I heard anything about the city of New Ramer in fact I haven't even looked it up on a map yet um the city of New Ramer did not come up in any email I had with Steve it did not come out um of course in my interview with him because that would certainly stick out now why out of nowhere this new Ramer I don't need I once again I've never looked at the entire court transcript because if I were to get it it would be a lot of money to get and I'm not going to do that um maybe new Ramer was mentioned during the trial if it's so I missed it but so I'll read it again number two comment he makes is my knowledge if any came after the fact assuming Janelle's death was accidental and her body hidden in the city of New Ramer maybe that's uh is new Ramer the uh like this in the jurisdiction of where she was eventually found maybe that is if so somehow I missed that all right so that's comment number two number three and he does have these numbers one two and now number three is it like over in the margin number three my attorney um I can't Hong Pax deal I guess this would have been uh back this was his attorney I guess back in 1985 remember if you remember Steve said he went to attorney to talk about this I don't think I ever knew that attorney's name maybe I did forget but the way it reads here is my attorney Hong packed so maybe this person is Chinese or something uh deal in quotation would have made the 1984 Colorado issue a 2019 civil matter in the jurisdiction of twin Paul's Falls County Court Idaho I reasonably assumed a statute of limitations for accidental death I wanted to protect pastoral privilege and give Janelle a Christian burial simultaneously so it seems to me that Steve is still on this thing that he found out about Janelle's death through somebody else and that he didn't do it hello Jill I'm reading uh Steve panky's letter right now good time for you to uh tune in so once again number three my attorney Hong Pack's deal would have made the 1984 Colorado issue a 2019 civil matter in the jurisdiction of Twin Falls County Court Idaho I reasonably assumed a statute of limitations for accidental death I wanted to protect pastoral privilege and give Janelle a Christian burial simultaneously now of course what came up in the trial is that Steve was not what we might call a man of the cloth and this is something I talked about last Thursday when interviewed um Steve was trying said there was this privilege of course the problem was that he wasn't affiliated with uh necessarily any church in that capacity and even last week when this came up in in my you know my interview with taking the stand what I said was you know just because two Catholics get together and they talk about the sins that they've committed does not make that privileged that there's no sort of uh privilege there between uh two Catholics there is privilege between uh a priest in an actual confessional confessional in that sort of capacity and I realized that other denominations and other religions have something similar I was raised Catholic so I know about this if I go in and confess to something of course I'm not a practicing Catholic now but if back then I would have gone in and confessed to Something There is privilege there and I realize there's a way to get around it and all that but it's recognized by law that there is something there that this kind of stuff is protected well there's certainly a difference between me talking to a Catholic priest and me talking to just some other run-of-the-mill Catholic who only shows up on Sundays and Steve never established that he actually was in a position to claim pastoral privilege even though it seems in this letter he's writing about that um and this is yeah of course this is something that uh was used in both trials I guess it worked in the first one it didn't work in the second one so I'll read this statement again my attorney Hong packs deal would have made the 1984 Colorado issue a 2019 civil matter in the jurisdictions of Twin Falls County Court Idaho I reasonably assumed a statute of limitations for accidental death I wanted to protect pastoral privilege and give Janelle a Christian burial simultaneously let's see what everybody's saying so far uh in the 1950s and 60s uh you said I'll have to come back to that uh Deborah unfortunately now that I'm uh in the middle of this uh Facebook user says my thoughts are still about the same that Steve Panky didn't do it um uh Valley says when you said that I immediately thought of that song too funny uh yeah it's uh great minds think alike Valerie uh definitely a lot of questions left the whole case and what he was convicted of is so complicated uh coffee says I don't think he did he's just an attention seeker and I talked about that hello Marty got in right at the right time uh Deborah says I don't think he killed her still Patricia you testified in Steve panky's 21 and 2022 trial didn't you Ed Patricia I did I did um and uh each experience uh was a little bit different and uh hello Marty everybody's saying hello to Marty this is so very interesting and just sat all around for all those involved like usual uh Boone wins really no one wins really uh Charlotte says I believe that he did kill her uh and Charlotte Kathy agrees with you Kathy uh since the beginning is believed that Steve Panky is a murderer uh coffee says religions are different and some aren't formally structured totally true coffee um uh I I agree with you uh but still I think it still holds that just because two Christians or two Baptists or two Muslims or too Jewish uh to Jews or whoever else Buddhists whoever else get together and they start confessing sins to each other none of that's privileged uh accidental not criminal involvement of any Christian burial posterior privilege civil matter accidental death he's a victim he puts him and stuff in every statement every situation uh Sharia and if everybody doesn't know uh assistant Cherie um has from the beginning thought that Steve killed Janelle totally fine because a lot of people think they are having a privileged conversation when they aren't that's true um but I have to admit coffee that you know we're all adults here and uh I I think most people do [Music] um know when they're having a privileged conversation and contrast to a non-frivileged one uh you know I uh I think um Deborah says he's an attention seeker Facebook what a big much of a mess but really I guess I don't know what to think now Marty uh yeah everyone kids are doing great um Marty says uh Marty says I believe there's no doubt that he killed her so Marty's along with Kathy and sharian Charlotte and fishing says is along with them and just because you believe that privilege doesn't make it so so right so it seems to me that despite Steve being convicted that he's still saying the same things um pastoral privilege he found out about it second hand everything else all right and um number four what he wrote and like I said uh none of this uh necessarily you know he really didn't answer any of the questions that I asked him I don't know if I'm supposed to be surprised or not I will give it another shot though uh and number four the judicial system to Steve Panky this is like a quote a name names or take the blame and B Justice for Janelle is arbitrary so the judicial system to Steve once again he you know being that he got convicted this is what he thinks the judicial system is saying to him a name names or take the blame so Steve is still claiming that the reason he went to jail is because he wouldn't name um you know he wouldn't divulge what somebody told him back then and I I have to admit to all of you that you know and what he's writing here as you know I am a doubter this does cost me to lean more toward the idea that he did kill her and once again uh he thinks that the judicial system to him is saying to him a name names or take the blame B Justice for Janelle is arbitrary which I I really don't know what that means and then he signed it his name Steve Pankey all right so uh uh in the second part uh page number two which is right here uh he just lets me know uh what is going on right now the district attorney is taking my house and bank account to pay for me being in prison this limits my appellate and third trial options the prison medical refuses to address any age-related medical needs I'm 72 because I was convicted of murdering a child this will lead to my death and then his final statement is Ed if you are really a victims advocate I'll get to that in a second victims advocate and quotations do more podcasts publicly share what I said in page one all right so I've done that and he said in Christ care Steve Panky and he signed it and he put page two of two well first of all uh as all of you know I am not a victims advocate I help my guests out uh certainly do what I can for them but I do that uh in a way that always reminds me that I am a reporter first um that there I have um you know I have a response I have an ethical responsibility to report the truth and facts and everything whereas my opinion on Advocates is they don't mind skewing the truth exaggerating to draw more attention to their cause I don't do that I don't do that for disappearances I don't do that for my guests I try to keep it as real forgive the cliche and he's saying of the 20 cent like late 20th early 21st century you know I'm keeping it real um I try to keep everything as real as possible my experiences that's the opposite of what Advocates do um so I'm not going you know and you've heard me say many times certainly a lot of disappearances out there at Salt there's like a hundred thousand one very very sad horrible horrible but what you'll also hear me say is really in a country of 330 million people at least now a hundred thousand people is not a lot compared to that we don't cover missing people because there are so many of them I report on disappearances and I interview people because I want them solved because I know how much damage these disappearances have done to them I'm not in this because there are so many disappearances out there I'm into disappearances because it's been an interest of mine for a long time and because I I really really realize that these people will never be the same that's why I do what I do I you know although the number is horrible um and you know people there are people out there they're more than happy to exaggerate the number of missing unsolved missing persons cases out there but I don't ever want anybody to think I'm into this because the the number of cases out there is so many that's not one and in that way I'm not an advocate I take an interest in disappearances because I know the damage that it does to people I know I can see the damage it does to Children the parents the friends how they tear up people's lives apart and everything else that's why and so I would be into disappearances if there are only a thousand unsold disappearances or if there are a million or only ten it would all be the same whereas I think Advocates that dare I say it they want the number to be huge so they make it huge because that gets there more tension it may get more tax dollars and and all these things and I think once you going start going down that road there's no way back and I think you throw your ethics and morality right out the window that's my opinion so I'm not a victims advocate I'm a reporter who's trying to help the people who have been damaged by these disappearances one by one um so so Steve just gets me wrong um I'm not saying he knows me well enough to know that I distance myself from advocates but um you know I didn't have him on an episode of unfound because I'm a victim's Advocate you know the victim here is Janelle Matthews and of course if Steve is innocent then I guess he's a victim the problem is he was convicted and dare I say um given that there was no scientific evidence to prove that he killed Janelle it was him he himself who got himself convicted it wasn't some lab worker out there or a fingerprint analysis person or anybody like that it was Steve's own mouth and I actually told him that in my letter that I sent him I actually said that you know there's no sign I you know um in so many words I stated that you know there was no science that convicted you you did it to yourself and I remember last week and talking uh when I spoke to taking the taking the stand people that at some point I even came out and said it's pretty clear to me that if Steve would have just kept his mouth shut whether he did it or not he would have never been a suspect in Janelle matthews's murder if he had never gone down there and spoken to whoever did in the beginning in 1985 if he had not kept showing up and saying that he knew things and everything else there is no way he would have ever been a suspect why because there was nothing physical or scientific to connect him to Janelle he did it to himself so um there you go let's see what everybody is um uh uh let's see what everybody's saying here um uh Marty says just because you believe it's privilege doesn't make it so coffee's pastor's wives are not clergy but they are treated as such in Protestant churches attention seeker not murderer women are often taken by surprise very true coffee Deborah if he's such an attention seeker he's an idiot um yeah uh Kathy says coffee but pastor's wives are not ordained Steve's dad and paternal grandfather are both and Dane Pastor Steve was never a pastor Facebook his comments are so odd but not really all that telling but what a letterhead wow I know um uh uh Deborah Marty did not say the word in he said Steve was an idiot just so let's not start something here Rockford says the reason he's in jail is that he bent over backwards to make himself look as guilty as possible it's like Charles Eric is still in prison I believe for the Kent High to High Holt Heidel murder yeah Rockford certainly no Steve is an idiot who want attention in a murder case I don't put it past him but still not smart new Ramer is a tiny tailed in Weld County thank you Charlotte for looking that up Deborah wasn't sure these emojis are blocking some of your comments yeah uh I've never seen someone more real than you were with Steve Panky it felt like it took guts but I think that's truly you Thank you Lisa it is truly me exactly pastors wives are not ordained been Evangelical Evangelical churches pastors wives are expected to Pastor the females of the church uh coffee they don't know any better until they have legal issues Kristen you are very generous thank you for the super sticker uh through Super Chat tonight Kristen thank you so much uh thank you for appreciating the work we do here Facebook but he must think he's talking to a victim's advocate so hmm he is the victim here a what a guy Steve is certainly yeah Kathy yes you are right about some of the most conservative Protestant face uh whoa Kristen how are you going to shut down the game like that the more Steve talks the less intelligent he comes off he talked himself right into a convictions of course he did that's exactly what he did uh that's Lisa don't worry about it uh any any dollar amount is accepted thank you very much Lisa Sharif says Dangerous Minds Facebook's user says it was his own mouth my honest opinion he opened this up all on his own Deborah I will say being a retired correctional officer a lot more innocent people in prison than ever thought before wow Deborah Deborah I would love to hear more about that maybe in an email exchange or something uh if you you know if you'd be up for that aha Lisa appreciated just the same of course uh thank you Lisa so that is the first Steve Panky letter and once again he titled it Steve panky's 1984 orwellian nightmare that's what he titled it so uh like I said I've read it if you missed it you can go back and play that part of it again maybe you want to do some sort of uh transcribing as I read it you want to type it out so you can have it for your own use if you want to analyze his words you can do that and at least on Facebook there will uh YouTube eventually generates an automatic transcription of every live show all you have to do is hit the little button down there to the side it'll show transcript if you want to do it that way but that is the first Steve Panky letter I intend to write them back and [Music] um when I do I'll let you know I just don't know how much I really want to make public regarding some of my ideas and uh things like that uh so there you go uh twinkle says you're going to keep writing him I am Debbie you are probably right juries consider people guilty until innocent unfortunately public defenders are overworked uh you know coffee you should know that uh during once again during taking the stand last week um the producer just asked me a very point-blank question Steve hung jury first trial convicted the second trial Point Blank the producer asked me what was the big difference between trial number one and trial number two it's a very easy answer to me Steve's lawyers that was the difference I got the idea that um Mr voorst I forget his first name but his last name is yours v-i-o-r-s-t uh I think he was very competent I think that Steve got a very good defense in the first trial and in the second trial it was the public defender's office and no offense to those two the man and the woman who were defending Steve they went to law school past the bar congrats to them but it just didn't seem to me that they were up to the task frankly to me that was the biggest difference between trial number one and trial number two um okay Deborah um Deborah why don't you uh email me on foundpodcast gmail.com and maybe we can line up uh a time to talk about that it's a very interesting topic um maybe we can line something up uh paid Defender versus public defender yes Anthony viewers thank you Kathy Anthony's his first name public defenders may be brilliant but overworked so there you go uh Steve Panky letter from him and um I'll look over my first letter to him and maybe uh the second time around I'll maybe make it shorter with more bullet points of things that I would like him to answer of course I can't make them answer what I want him to answer and I of course know that he's never good if he did it he's never going to admit that and that's that's certainly not even my mind that's not what even what I'm thinking but whether he killed Janelle or not I certainly would like his insight uh into the just just the step by step of all of this and I really didn't get that uh in this first letter but I as I admitted just what 10 minutes ago the way he answered this letter uh once again Steve not doing himself any favors uh Facebook user says there will be another never be another case like this Pinky and all this he got so involved that there's no way to look at it and eliminate him from the conversation you know I have to tell you this once again this is a topic that came up last week with taking the stand that you have to remember there are a lot of Steve pankies out there there are a lot of people who for one reason or another become obsessed with a disappearance with a murder of course Brian shaffer's disappearance has them Murray's disappearance has them Jennifer Cassie's uh disappearance has them but Steve Panky you know there are a lot of Steve pankies out there but Steve Panky is the most Steve Panky of all of them and you know being so obsessed in all of these different things but yeah you know you go to web sluice and you go to the the threads for um you know some of these well-known cases whatever they are there's a lot of people on there pretending to know stuff It's Not Unusual it's just Steve Panky is the most Steve Panky of all Steve pankies it's the way I look at it um hey there's Julian what's going on Julian uh Julian you should know that uh Cynthia uh Cynthia and I got to talk yesterday so I think we're eventually you know um you know kind of talking out of school here with everybody else but uh you know I don't know we're gonna be able to cover that particular disappearance uh with Cynthia you know there's just not enough information right at this point but I'm gonna try to continue to work with her behind the scenes see if we can put something together eventually uh but Julian says this whole case is very conflicted and comfortable I don't have an opinion on whether or not Steve did anything but I because I don't feel like I have enough information I probably would not have convicted him Beyond A Reasonable Doubt I get it Julian Charlotte Ed did you get the email sent to unfound a few weeks ago about the two sets of siblings missing in Alaska I did Charlotte I did get it thank you I looked at it not sure what I'm going to be able to do with it right now SRI if he wrote you a letter and said he did kill her would you believe it or would you still think it was Steve trying to be relevant I would believe it I would believe a tree I would um a lot uh a whole lot you'd be surprised Deborah I like the way you think uh Lisa I have serious thoughts to pinky did it at the very least not enough evidence yeah yeah it's still hard to compute how they convicted them you want to think that he's guilty totally fine but really when it comes to his actual conviction still still a little mind-blowing uh to me so what do I want to cover next let's talk about this fugitive that was caught right here in my state of Florida we got uh maybe I should answer another question hold on a second let's answer this question uh what do you believe the protocol should be regards to a missing person going missing that has a history of domestic violence against them would you believe the protocol should be in regards to of a person going missing the data has a history of domestic violence against them um is this uh is this a question from you Jill if you're still in here um you know I'm inclined to treat all disappearances the same uh if that's the question you're asking um you know we've uh you know I I would certainly love to cover more disappearances where it's somebody on the Run we kind of did that of course when Julian was on by the way if everybody wants to know former guest Julian is Jay's Amaze in there but when joian was on of course we talked about um you know his family member and her taking off with Richard reasonberg uh never to be seen again um I treat them all the same um whether a fugitive from the law or whatever else um at least that's my attitude and then the other uh uh question that I got asked was do you think the police take the man's word for what happened in their wives or girlfriend's disappearances too much and if so what can be done to change it uh this uh you know I covered this topic very recently so you know it's interesting getting this question um yeah they do take them too much and I even went as so far as to say that the reason I think that police do this is because maybe these police officers can inventify a little too much with the man who's standing there saying his wife took off dare I say I know it's horrible but uh you know we're all adults we've all been in relationships a lot of us have had problems with our relationships and it very well may be that a police officer who has maybe had uh marriage problems I'm not saying that this guy was necessarily abusive or anything but maybe his wife cheated on him maybe she ran off you know with the pool boy maybe around her his credit card debt up and everything else and so you have this guy that maybe in the back of his heads thinks women are nothing but trouble like the Beastie Boys said and then he shows up for a disappearance where husband's saying yeah my wife took off I think a police officer like that is going to be more inclined to believe a story like that and I believe that a lot of this is going on I certainly believe that and so yes I guess what I'm saying is I think there is there could be a sexism in this type of disappearance when it comes to the investigation and believing the men who tell these stories that to the rest of us who aren't investigators run police and everything we're like how can you believe these stories but it seems the police officers who show up due there has to be a reason for that and dare I say I think one of the reasons could be that these police officers want to believe these stories because this is their experience with women which is horrible you know you know and you know the guys start saying you know she was doing this and she was doing that and you know and the some of these guys showing up in their uniforms identify to it and they start being buddies with the guy I'm just hypothetical I don't know that factually true but you know misery loves company that's I think that comes from somewhere probably Shakespeare or something and so if a guy who's a police officer is in misery about a woman in his life for whatever reason he shows up for missing persons case it's some guy's door and the guy says yeah the woman ran off she ran off and got in a truck white truck I don't know who was driving who's going to be most likely to believe the guy another guy who is also having problems with women and being that I'm a straight guy I know how these things work and it's horrible so um there you go um the on the case show brought up the neighbor across the street Charlotte when I did that interview for taking the stand last week we talked about North strike as well uh hello Jill uh okay I I agree Lisa I don't think there was a ton of evidence certainly not enough to put him away they being said I do believe he killed her Jill says I was more asking about a victim of domestic violence what do you read the regarding a pistol going missing that has oh I I now I'm rereading the question and accenting different words Joe now um well just as I said Jill um one of the protocols should be make sure that the investigator can't identify with the guy who's claiming that his wife ran off okay in fact uh maybe for these types of disappearances maybe they should put women investigators in charge of these particular types of disappearances instead of men I would certainly be open to that I I realized we all want to look you know very be gender blind and all this stuff but I can't resist the idea that if women were showing up to take these missing persons reports for these types of disappearances that the investigations would go a little differently uh so once again what do you believe the protocol should be in regards to a person going missing that has a history of domestic violence against them um I guess to change my answer at least a little bit Jill I think anybody shows up should be absolutely as cynical as cynical as cynical should be from the very first second they hear about the disappearance and they shouldn't take the husbands or boyfriend's word at all in fact whatever the guy says they should probably just think the opposite that's the protocol yep you said it Ed and I wouldn't have been able to convict either there's plenty of Doubt how it was ignored by jury uh once again uh reminding everybody thank you Shri please give this video a thumbs up to show a thumbs up please subscribe and if you're in uh Facebook or wherever please do what you can there as well yeah um Norris Drake yeah very true Ed Robert says I'm not defending on law enforcement claims there isn't biased laziness but it's hard to have the right to go missing and be a thorough investigation every time someone goes missing I realized that Rockford I was certainly um adults at least in the United States do have the right to go off and things but Rockford what I'm specifically talking about or all I mean I mean I realize you're still working your way through all of unfounds episodes but really how many disappearances we covered where the woman's phone purse ID clothes car everything she owns is uh been left behind and a guy says I don't know what happened to her or they have some store yes she took off and a guy you know in a white truck and I don't know who the guy is many many of them so I get it that women are certainly if they're married they're certainly allowed to take off but would they really do it that way would they really leave all their clothes behind I can see leaving their phone behind if they're you know they don't want to be contacted or something else but they're closed their purse I can maybe see their ID but at some point it just gets a little be a little crazy I think and it should be a huge red flag it should be uh human nature is human nature always will be shree this age-old proverb was originally said in the 16th century by the demon mesostophiles in a play titled the tragical history of Dr Faustus misery loves company thank you shree you Googled it thank you so Faust the tragical history of Dr Faustus misery loves company and it is certainly true thank you for that my quest is beginning to wind down and I will say the man said cases are overwhelming to say the least yeah they are uh every time um you know every time we you know and we of course we just had one this past Friday and we're gonna actually have one this Friday although it's a the woman said type of disappearance of course I'll get to that in like 15 minutes but every time we cover one I'm left with the same same situation why didn't anybody believe any of this you know I realize in the moment some of these disappearances hard to tell I get it I have a lot of compassion I don't have a lot of compassion with that particular type you know the Marion Harleys the Rosemary wraps the Daniel sleepers on and on and on and on and on I mean we've covered so many it's very sad these men surely got away with murder surely instead you know they're putting out apbs looking for all right I want to talk about this fugitive who was found uh fugitive caught uh they say he was living a lavish style lavished lifestyle in Florida Deputy U.S Marshals arrested Alan Todd May 58 years old on Tuesday this would have been six days ago in Fort Lauderdale neighborhood less than two miles from the ocean in an area where a large number of the homes are valued at more than one million dollars prior to his capture authorities searched across the country for May who was wanted for fraud and Escape since 2018 he was on the run for five years this was huge this is a very long extensive investigation this gentleman because of his fraud background was very good at eluding capture in 2012 May was sentencing sentenced to 20 years in federal prison after being convicted of mail fraud in Texas in January 2018 he was transferred to the federal correctional institute in Englewood Colorado nearly a year later in December May was discovered to be missing during a prisoner count it doesn't say how actually he escaped when he escaped prison made nine years left on his 20-year sentence while he was in prison authorities say managed to seal seven hundred thousand dollars so while he's in prison he's still ripping people off impressive investigators say may identified several businesses that were owed unclaimed oil and gas royalties and then acted as a representative of those companies to claim the royalties for himself he's believed to have gathered more than seven hundred thousand dollars in fraudulent claims and indictment connected to these allegations dropped while May was on the run as the charges continued to Stack Up Against The Escape EUC U.S Marshals say they had started receiving more tips about him which led investigators to chase leads in California Wisconsin Michigan Texas and Florida U.S Marshals say one Anonymous tipster to help them track down May after seeing his picture at a high society fundraiser on a website for the Palm Beach Daily News investigators set up surveillance on a penthouse apartment in Palm Beach but saw in his signs of May that's until they noticed May's suspected partner leaving the apartment in a U-Haul truck U.S Marshals followed the U-Haul almost 50 miles from Palm Beach to the home in Fort Lauderdale where they eventually saw may come out of the house as movers unloaded the U-Haul authorities placed me into custody yes Marshall say when they may was arrested he was wearing a Rolex watch and driving a Mercedes we should all be so fortunate very flashy he was flooding his wealth will they have Tom obtained that wealth legitimately or not is another question but he was very good at flaunting his wealth while still trying to remain hidden May is detained it is suspect expected to be back taken back to Colorado by the end of the month to face 10 counts of wire fraud seven counts of mail fraud and Escape charges he could potentially potentially face additional charges related to possible fraudulent activity while he was on the run so it can be done even a guy's high profile as this guy he went missing for five years and here he was he really I guess he was hiding but not hiding in what we would uh say in hiding terms I'm I'm guessing he was using some fake name or whatever but he did it we I don't know how he escaped I'd love to know that but so when we think about more regular types of disappearances and of course we know about Robert Hoagland who disappeared successfully maybe you know I I don't know if this really opens my mind anymore to the idea that yes maybe more people than I realize uh you know the disappearances that we've covered on and found maybe more of them are walk-offs and they're alive out there that I realize I certainly am inclined to believe some of them are uh but man if it's more intent I would be surprised but maybe I'm wrong uh but it is amazing that but I think what this also shows going back to the Robert Hoagland example I guess from last year is that even with this guy even with the money that he ripped off and everything else it seems he also needed help that's why they're talking about this partner with you all is this like a girlfriend or something it doesn't say uh at least in this article so I think what I'm saying is it seems like it can be done but now that we have a couple stories like this it seems these people need help maybe people who really know that this person is on the run or is somebody else or people like in Robert hoagland's case who are willing to kind of look past some things that don't quite add up like with Robert Hoagland you know he didn't have a bank account and you know and all these other things he was very nebulous about his background and his history and everything else these people need help whether direct help or indirect help you know whether through uh having a lot of knowledge or just being ignorant I think this this is what this shows um I think what this also says is you know if you're cruising around and seeing people driving Mercedes and Bentleys and rolls royces and everything I think it's fair to say to a lot of these people probably are living beyond their means or ripping people off and everything else you know this is more and more where I'm getting in my life given that where I live I do see stuff like that more and more I'm thinking I'm betting I just have a feeling that a lot of these people are living beyond their means and just buying the stuff you know and ripping people off and things that's where I've gotten to uh she hadn't heard about that okay SRI while I'm I'm always happy when I can surprise surprise shree with a story yep we agree on those examples and we agree on the need for cynicism on the party of this investigators Rockford says but they're out yet there are a lot of Plenty cases in your catalog where there's a no evidence it wasn't voluntary I I agree uh yeah there are definitely a few inmates who make a lot of things happen from their cell library in the smuggling in cell phones are rampant to stay connected to do business references Marty how many are you doing per week the most I've been able to do is three and that requires some of the shorter ones uh yeah Marty's almost caught up to present day for all of unfans episodes I I give them all the respect in the world and uh One More Story and maybe Rockford being that uh what you brought up I'm gonna read this story I want to talk about The Disappearance of Miriam Cilla s-y-l-l-a police are searching for a Maryland teacher who was reported missing more than a week ago after she disappeared after going on a walk Miriam Torre Cilla 59 was last seen in Greenbelt Maryland on July 29th around 8 PM the Greenbelt Police Department said in a statement Monday so I think this was last Monday police describe Cilla as a black woman about five five and about 135 pounds Cilla who is also known as Madame solo interesting is a teacher at Dora Kennedy French immersion school in the Prince George's County Public School District in Greenbelt we hope and pray for Miriam Theresa's safe return the district said our hearts are with the door Kennedy French immersion community on Friday students parents in the Greenbelt Community held a vigil for so almost a week after she was reported missing at the vigil uh Greenbelt police chief said Cilla took regular Walks from 30 to 45 minutes ending Before Sunset police said she went for a walk the day she disappeared police are asking the public to contact them with any information until his disappearance please uh say Miriam was last seen around 8 PM in the 6500 block of Lake Park driving Greenbelt on July 29th when her son says she left home to take a walk uh Greenbelt police Chloe Shrum Hills Park where isilla which Cilla is known to frequent located at 6915 Hanover Parkway for several hours Tuesday Morning once again I think this is last Tuesday morning while they connected conducted a search uh Fox 5 told I was told there was no sign of her family says she's very religious and while she often takes walks in the area she typically returned home by Sunset to pray my understanding she was Muslim but that didn't happen Saturday Cilla who was originally from Africa is a teacher at Door County French immersion school where she has worked for several years now I did look up this location so uh you know and there are no bodies of water near there however there is a large Force to the west but I think that's mentioned in the article this is that Park and I think that it was searched so Rockford I think this is a good example of this that here's a grown woman 59 years old who walked off it very well may be that she walked off but I have to say if it wasn't her son who was saying that she walked off that day if it was her boyfriend then that would be least little be a little bit of a yellow flag to me then I'm gonna start wanting not that Sons don't kill their mothers they do but it's a lot rarer than boyfriends killing boyfriend uh boyfriends or girlfriends and husbands killing wives um so if this was a husband saying yeah she walked off I would at least want to go a little deeper on that whereas with this a lot of different possibilities um and even you know of course as I have written here the things that I go to when thinking about a disappearance like this is any men in her life maybe she's not living with a guy she's dating but does he live in the area also it sounds like she had a routine we know how dangerous that can be for women if you're always out there walking the same time every day running the same time every day you have a very set schedule if the wrong guy happens to lock onto that schedule you're making it easy for him to harm you if you're a woman out there doing that now I realize you got your life to live I'm not saying you should live in fear but what you should understand is if you live by a set schedule and you're going out in the public being by yourself running biking walking swimming hiking whatever the odds of something bad happen to you go up I'm not saying they go up by a million percent but but when you because when you have a set routine of things that you do every day by yourself you could unfortunately latch on to some sort of stalker I don't know if that happened here but it's something that's on my mind this does not seem to be a situation where I think something happened at home and somebody you know unless her son is a really really really really bad guy but there's nothing at this point that causes me to believe that anything other than yes she did walk off and something happened while she was on her walk and very well may be that she walked off and committed suicide very sad so Rockford I guess what I'm saying is it just depends and I understand that you know not everything is so uh what is the woman's name uh sure no problem her name is Miriam Cilla Charlotte it's m-a-r-i-m let me do that again m-a-r-i-a-m-e last name Cilla s-y-l-l -a so we'll see uh you know what happened of course we had this very well-known disappearance up there in the New England states the woman who went missing on Super Bowl Sunday she's living by herself I think her husband was in Texas or something she's cooking this meal for the Super Bowl party the people show up she's not there never to be seen again although she did tell somebody she was going to go out for a walk that were to be seen again so certainly adults can walk off and everything but when it comes to situations where men in these women's lives start telling these stories I automatically go to completely cynical you just gave my standard answer when I'm asked for a legal question it depends and I quite agree that you're right clearly law enforcement needs to be better educated about this appearance Jess that they need like I said Rockford I keep saying it they need to know it when they see it they need to know it when they see it and right now they don't do that not just for this type of disappearances but all types they have to know be able to deduce very quickly is this Foul Play or is this something else did this person walk off or whatever else and dare I say it myself and probably all of you in this live show tonight are better equipped at showing up and determining this than anybody in law enforcement is right now because you'll listen to unfound all right this Friday we're going back to New York City in fact we're going back uh to Brooklyn of course this is the birthplace of friend of the program Dr telesco for The Disappearance of ileah Boomer a-l-i-y-a-h last name Boomer b-o-o-m-e-r her aunt Tasha rice is the guest Aaliyah went missing from Brooklyn on August 15th 2015. and how conveniently that this is not the Mansa type of disappearance this is the woman said and that is going to be the title of the episode the woman said why because Aaliyah was in a relationship with a woman who is much older than she was and the story this older woman told they had been dating for like four years is that Aaliyah wanted to go to a barbecue and this woman admitted they had kind of argued about it and then uh she kind of just said okay if we're gonna go you're gonna go by yourself and Aaliyah was never seen again never showed up at this other barbecue nothing so once again Rockford uh for the you know this will give you another chance to think about this particular type of disappearance and the rest of you as well you know we get so caught up talking about the man said I don't know what happened she just took off well now a woman is saying this about her girlfriend and are we going to treat it the same way it would be very interesting for all of this um come this will be this Friday once again I Leah Boomer b-o-o-m-e-r Brooklyn New York August 15 2015 our Aunt Tasha rice is the guest and the title of the episode is the woman said so that's all I got uh Charlotte good night to you Patricia thank you uh for joining in tonight everything good to see you Lisa heavy metal uh Love Heavy Metal Lisa yeah sure he's reminding everybody to keep your head on a swivel uh yeah I'm a heavy metal rock star uh Lisa you should know that I'm working on my singing and I don't be surprised at this time you leave next year I am the lead singer in a band do not be surprised by that well that's all I got for tonight please give this video a thumbs up please consider uh contributing through patreon YouTube through the Super Chat button through PayPal and you will hear me on Friday for The Disappearance of Elia Boomer thank you all for making time tonight good night and keep your heads on swivels