SOUNESS AND O’NEILL FIRE UP FOR OLD FIRM! | Celtic v Rangers preview | The Warm-Up

Intros that um that's why I went after you that might be a tad L to apologize can I apologize now no too bad you feel as if you boots on as well and had boots on yeah okay shin pads on underneath maybe as well I perhaps shin pads underneath but uh that was in case soon us appeared who would you want in your team mccoist or Larson IDE a couple of players come out and said I said manan's boys man well it wasn't I it was him welcome to episode five of the warm-up before we get into it today we've got a big episode for you please make sure you subscribe hit that little subscribe button down below Gordon what have you got this week two of the biggest gifts you could possibly imagine they have been giving you a real hard time before we've even come on so I'm looking forward to this proper Legends I know that word gets thrown around but gam sunis and Martin and Neil an absolute pleasure hope you're both well a massive game this weekend obviously I wonder how you both feel about that The importance of fans fixture now having like lived it breathed it and now being slightly outside it the enjoy it the same what's it like now can you go well yeah um you still enjoy it absolutely but um I think the thing that's been missing from it are the away fans and I think that is taken away from a a fixture that is um it is one of it is global there's no question about it I know that word has been used quite often in the last couple of years but I might as well use it now but it is it's a fantastic fixture it's uh it's incredible really even for the people who wouldn't have a serious interest in the SPL otherwise people talk about the um the the fixture in itself and has definitely lost lost something because of their way fans I don't know how how you feel about that but um to me it was so atmospheric it was incredible and when I as Celtic manager traveled to ibrs I felt you know that you were going to get plenty of stick but you actually did feel when you stepped out onto the field when we had filled the end to the left hand side as we looked onto the pitch that you you didn't feel alone in that sense you know they felt there's something there for you and similarly I'm sure with um with the Rangers managers going there to to Celtic so I think it's lost that however still a fantastic fixture yeah without a doubt I I would describe it as a biggest Derby I've ever been involved in I've played in Mery side Darby um when I managed Galatasaray that's an enormous one with fener bachche um nearly as hostile as the Celtic Rangers one but without a shadow of a doubt you know the home supporters react to the way supporters so there's there's something lost with no no way supporters being there but it was um no they're fantastic games the world watches that game and it is diminished by not having a supporters but you're looking forward to this weekend maybe a bit more than I am but you know has been for quite a number of years now listen I thought You' get that in I thought You' give me five minutes before you started on there but no Celtic obviously starts favorites but we both know football is a strange game names on team sheets don't win your football matches and in that game in particular you know anything can happen you know sending off bad refereeing decision someone producing a bit of magic but the I I've watched I watched two old for games last year I know the Celtic have been the dominant team that's got for a while now I didn't see a lot between the two teams and two the two games I saw last year so I'm I'll be sitting with everything crossed well there might not be a great deal and that's true in a particular game there might not be a great deal between the between the teams but I just have felt and I felt this now for a number of years that a ranger side I I I don't think is that strong in fact I think it's it's for Ranger standards I think it's quite poor but you don't you wouldn't you wouldn't guarantee Rangers going away from home and winning winning matches so you can actually do all right against against Celtic on the day you can still end up losing the match and the game could be close but you would you do feel at this minute in the last number of years that Rangers are not capable of going away from home and be guaranteed winning the game I think the biggest thing was that the the Ross County game last season is is is a prime example they take the lead in the game they've had they've had all the advantages going it's in their hands and they go and and you just don't see it you don't see it coming through and I don't think that that's a major shock to Rangers fans that's the point and primarily because the team is not strong enough see but again I come back to we we know how unpredictable football can be the same applied to my other team Liverpool last year you know they had they got themselves into a situation where they just had to win just win the next 10 games in the win the league and and they didn't do it for whatever reason um you know when the big player should be turning up and putting a foot to the floor and having them all Pile in behind they didn't do it so there was obviously a mental weakness there on them but for Rangers you know when you look at Rangers right now even this week the boy Riley going to Brighton for 25 million with add-ons you know that that Gap is enormous in in terms of where Celtic are financially and where Rangers are and you know on paper Celtic do have better players have better Strikers at this moment in time but I come back to we've I'm sure you agree Martin we've played in games of football where you've been an outstanding favorite but you've come on stop football takes one result I suppose isn't it to for it to all change but Martin and Graeme’s Old Firm memories what are some of your favorite memories then from the derbies down the years I'm sure we'll get on to this week's Derby as well a little bit later on talk about the squads a little bit more but for you guys what are some of the games that stand out from your careers um well naturally my my you're talking about the old firm games yeah my first old firm game was was just really dramatic we had um I came up here uh That season um please I'm this Rangers were really strong really strong side and if ID realized how strong they were I might just have stayed at Leicester um but um I came up because it's what I wanted to do and um and we opened and I never forget their first game was at dunde United tanise and um it was in those days of Sky TV so ours was Rangers that kicked off in the on the Saturday in one at ibrs so our game was in the on the Sunday Sunday around about 6:00 time and I was asked a question by a journalist and he said to him he said if you with the Rangers winning yesterday if you don't win today is that the league over we hadn't even kicked off is was third or fourth game of the season it was the first game first that's a welcome to Glasgow isn't it so and that but that that true honestly and I think I went back into the dressing room and vomited I think I thought this is going to be because Rangers had won the leag by about 20 odd points the previous year but we got a bit of momentum going so by the time I think Rangers might have been our fifth or sixth game so by the time we got we we had won our matches but this was really big for us and um if you're I mean I couldn't have dreamt of a better start we're 3-0 up in 11 minutes and I and honestly I looked across to John Clark Little John who was remember the 1967 side was M hit man I looked across him and I said is the game nearly over I know it's one of those where you've got a a dream start three and a lot but Rangers were really good side but that gave us momentum and the actual fact that even though Rangers beat us in November time at I Brooks and hammered us that we had a lot of confidence or more confidence about ourselves had that had that first fixture being at Rangers who knows but it was a great and I think it was a seminal moment for the I didn't see it at that time but it was a seminal moment for the season and perhaps maybe for the turning point for Celtics Fort see when you've like seen it all in the fixture Grim is it easy to do you have like one memory that stands out does it does it all sort of merge into one or you know when you're asked about does something jump out at you has been something to you're talking about the all fir yeah um I think maybe a negative one I mean we did well in the games against Celtic we were the dominant team in my time up here we had some fabulous players of fabulous team um I can remember getting sent off at parad what a surprise of course it wasn't wasn't deserved but still was deserved soon those those sentences do not go together soon as been sent off undeserved L you know I was only fraction and getting there but no I I think um they are I found do you know who who who was it I can't remember I anyway from his memory no I am just a mental aberation when I came here I was still playing still trying to play which is super difficult you know when you're a manager and you're managing Celtic it must be the exact same it's full on you never know what you're walking into when you walk through the door but I was still trying to play and um I found playing in those games really difficult you know I was I played in big games before I arrived here I found those old firm games maybe it's cuz I was you just getting a bit older that but they were super quick super aggressive um and were very hard to play in but I I I just love playing in big big football matches I've always done that the bigger the game the more the turn me on the better I felt I was but they are monster games to play in enormous pressure to play in uh um and I said I was fortunate it went well well for me when I was here but the pressure on managers in those games is enormous I mean I can I can remember I don't know if I met you somewhere or I phoned you up and I said you know because I was bit further down the road than you having been at Rangers and then moved on do you remember I that you you should not wear a track on the side of the pitch you did you absolutely did did he said because uh uh what was your reasoning I was like I I felt wearing a suit C me down you know you get so involved and so emotional he jumping up and down and confronting fourth officials and anyone else it comes and to try wearing a suit see if it puts you because you we were both the same you don't get too involved too carried away and I suppose the Rangers managers have to wear a suit don't they on the match day but is it a rule at Celtic that they no it's definitely not a rule I don't know whether it's changed in my time but I did did but I did um he didn't listen to me noly tra well it's I didn't listen to to to uh to Graham in the sense that it wasn't because greme had given to him and I and I'm going to refuse his um his advice passion advice far far far from it um but I I just I kind of felt at that stage in M I'm more involved in the game believe it or not you know you you feel as if you boots on as well and had boots on yeah okay Shin pad on underneath maybe as well I perhaps sh heads underneath but uh that was in case soon as appeared but um but um no in in terms of Graham's Graham's and this is I will praise him for this he there was generally speaking what he did he changed the trend things he brought serious footballers from England up to up to Scotland serious players you know and uh and that was unusual at the time and uh and it was a a massive change no question yeah I suppose actually you know in different ways at different times you both came in and kick started a a revolutioner at a different time for the club what's that like when you walk into that that size of a challenge how do you go about building that well that was my first job how many how many jobs did you have prior to taking the Celtic i' own I'd I'd had um uh Wick and wanders and um and Leicester city I I was really enjoying how old were you uh right okay what age was it I was about um I must have been about um about 40 47 48 or something you're old bastard yeah was yeah see I yeah just let me let me work the side for a track yeah yeah I would have been yeah been about 20 4748 I made some mad decisions you know confronting because when you're young you feel you can take anything on but I I got the job as as manager of of Rangers at 33 is that right and I used to chuckle it when talked about butin the young Spurs marriage I he was about 45 and I'm thinking you know I at that time that never reg it's only registered afterwards you know you walk in at 33 although I had been managing for for years before at Wickam wanders yeah I know that was my first job oh that was you know and I'm thinking when I get the Rangers job you know being being a big player played for big clubs played from a country captain M country you know what how different can it be it was it was there was nothing I had done to prepare me for the Rangers job oh go keep playing it's the same game of football but in terms of managing it was it was you know I had some really good people with me had a great chairman David Holmes first time around laterally David David Murray but that did Walter come in and help yeah no Walter was there we were being Walter was with the Scottish Squad prior to the World Cup in 86 so new Walter he was in around the the Scottish scene with firsty join then laterally with Fergie so I knew Walter and got on well with Walter and um David Holmes suggested that that you know you need someone who knows about Scottish Football so we were sort of thrown together and we we got on well from day one um and he was an enormous without a shadow that I mean I was just knocking doors down and barging through you know and um he was holding me back some and um but he was an an myself here's an interesting thing would you well the fact is that you were still able to play at that time you know might not to the to the ability that you had before or in terms of slowing down a little bit but if you had just let's say had picked up the ninja and were unable to play would you have job just as a manager on its own at that time yeah 33 yeah that's that's that's come back to I Martin’s memories of playing Graeme when you were young I mean I was Fearless when I was young you know and fearful you know fearful no that's the wrong use of the word he was a dirty bastard really really good player really good player very very very good player brilliant honestly one of the best one of the we we ever on the receiving end oh absolutely sing that coming through well interestingly enough yes absolutely because he took some uh um reason for disliking me and I strangely enough I it's true I am actually quite dislikable believe it or not I am and um I found that out in my own household but what I'm what I'm saying I'm we played we actually had um matches against each other when I was with nottingam Forest when we were and we actually for a couple of years despite the fact that Liverpool were the best side in the country European football we had the Indian sign on them we actually beat we couldn't beat it they could some big matches but we also had a couple of lads as well too who could look after them Ian Bo no I couldn't I couldn't tackle a fish supper at the end of the day I I had a gilic background a gilic and I was you know I don't get me wrong I wasn't a card but I wasn't I wasn't uh Kenny Burns Fearless you know in that sense but i' tackled like a I tackled like a a like a gilic man you know so grabbing people like that there so I couldn't slide in and people Graham could do that but at the end of the day um so we had a fellow called Boer who actually noed everyone as well did scer wasn't he he was a Manchester lad he Brave as a lion so he could deal with Suess and and the lads in that sense so fast forward a couple of years then I'm playing for not County and um we're at anfield and uh soon as after about 12 minutes he just he's come from nowhere I I didn't even see him boom done me absolutely done me so I'm and I'm playing for knots County so I'm you know listen I'm at the end of my at the end of my career in that sense and you think you feel sorry for to S this story by no hold on this is interesting because and honestly it's like yesterday to me and um so anyway I so I'm looking around for players who would maybe look after me in that sense I don't feel boer's not there because it's not the time Larry Lloyd's not there Kenny Burns is not there any of these boys are not there so I thought I just have to take me punish anyway I was getting um I was wheeled into the uh dressing room to get stitched up and I seem to be there for an age that it was the Liverpool doctor come down I think you know had a couple of drinks at the time yeah it was always full of it it was honestly and he uh so he said to me uh which leg is it I said the one that's bleeding down there you know and I said that one oh is that right so when he it looks as if he's taking ages to stitch it up about six stitches or something I guess here and anyway down comes Jimmy SEL who Jimmy s was partly Jimmy had been the manager Nots County for times he' let the re over to Larry Lloyd but he was still hovering around come down son we Scots man he said uh we need you back up there again I said uh and this was it was nil nil at the time and he and he I said what's the score he said 4 nil I said the score four I said I no I don't think I'll bother anyway so I go and get changed and um and I never so I came out and there and trying to brave up as and the two dressing rooms at at anfield just come converge in that sense as they're coming out so as soon as he was coming out the door and I said yeah dirty blue blah blah blah and he just said did you say dirty blue something no I didn't say that no I did not say that I absolutely did not I said something and and he said uh all right he said uh people in Glass Houses as if to say I'm running around doing people I thought you must be kidding so he he kind of s sort of spat down there disparagingly for a while and I thought yeah he's right okay so anyway that was that was it but we've honestly so really good player dirty dirty bastard wouldn't wouldn't survive now and today AG would do because he would learn but honestly terrific footballer terrific player can I give my go it in this game I'd never had a problem with him he would stand up and you know fight his Corner he's right about you you know Kenny Burns would fight a lion Larry Lloyd was a big old lump late Larry Lloyd um and Bo used to go around noising people remember Boer saying to Terry M it was a game towards the end of the season two or three games may may have been the last game and we were going to play European Cup final he to ter do you want to him playing that final next week two weeks time did ter said you know what he just said to me so then you know he was cute as well as being able to look after us I can't ever remember properly catching him no but in this game that you're playing and you had this is how I remember you had a dip at Kenny and Kenny's looked at you know you had a dip at Russia and Russ's gone to me because Russy you know would look for help on occasion and anyway that that um was why I went after you that day might be a tad late to apologize can I apologize now no too bad serious latest apolog not not accepting it here today you know yeah absolutely no problem a game every team had players like that who who could yeah yeah wanted or could cross the line for and it was allowed yeah the referees will let you get on with it and no not seriously and it's also I think it's really interesting as well when you talk to ex Liverpool players of of his football team and how how big he was in the dress and that's the final words I'm going to say about you know okay so but a really really really quality footballer no question about it one of the best I just get really nervous every time we're supposed to put these two on the spot five quick fire questions for you hold The Rondo on before we're going for that who's putting a name to these questions these your questions uh no someone else so you're disowning these questions there there stupid questions it's not down to you on who are there to take so can a quick fire they are a bit different well let's call them different you call them a name I'll go different we see we got one you have a legal background Martin which of your former players would star in your first crime novel if you were to write one if I was to the first uh to write if you were to write a crime novel any of your former players you think would be would be in it uhhuh they can be the good good guys or the bad guys no I'll put that to I'll give that to sutt you know good guy bad guy oh bad guy yeah absolutely that was a quick answer best old firm goal you've ever seen best all firm goal I've ever seen um maybe maybe henrik's goal in the 62 game something flicks it on to him and the chips yeah would gram sunus get in your treble Winning Side uh gram sunus getting the treble winning S I mean not no but In fairness I I shouldn't really say this but soon as we get in just about everybody's World 11 you know a derby win at home very much got say that right person I don't I like him but it doesn't really matter but I'm talking about his ability as a player a derby win at home or away would you prefer a derby win at home or away yeah so Celtic par that's a very good question uh yeah I must admit winning at I rocks is fantastic yeah okay I can see that and the biggest name in your phone book biggest name my phone the biggest CB who's the biggest that's going to be again isn't it gra going to be two of his answers a biggest name I seriously I'm genuinely and this is I'll be serious for a second I'm not widely into that told before we came on you did tell us you played golf with Rory Mel right playing golf with Rory maoy and having Rory mckoy's number is a totally different thing and I don't even check I I I honest sorry I don't mean it I don't and I'm I'm not honestly I'm not in any Coty of little friends or I've never been one of those I I don't know whether gr was the same as as me but I never was never into a c of little of managers never found a manager up why would you because this is a new president of the LA in England by the way you know yeah I yeah I am which I'm trying to find what that means as as such a league manager association chairman of that's oh it's not president just a chairman it's just the chairman oh just the chairman just the chairman and uh anyway so sorry what was the question biggest name in the phone book it was it's got big you know what I do but be w s find can see him mind I like that so grae for you then as well we got five quick five questions so would you rather have a morning coffee with Jim White or lunch with Simon Jordan oh neither neither fair enough move on to the next one uh old firm win as a manager or a player what do you prefer see when when you're a player that's easily the best job I'm sure you AG great you know you just feel you just look after yourself and having a good day you're trying to help your teammates as a manager you feel so responsible so winning old firm as a manager okay um same question that Martin had best old firm goal you've ever seen well I'm I'm going to talk about when I was involved it would be Ray Wilkins is volley at Celtic end yeah nice um who would you want in your team mccoist or Larsson well I've already said I've already said was world class guessing any any team yeah when he was it's Celtic par so I'd have to go with Henrik Henrik Larson and same question again biggest name in your phone book biggest name I'm honestly I don't I don't qu um this of no real the problem we didn't we didn't see this coming we've now got two guests that they are the biggest name people's phone books it's not true um you're our first European Cup winners as well on the show The anyone yeah which Alex Ferguson's number we talk about like he been a great player and actually a very very very very good manager but Alex Ferguson's record has been up there yeah so I I'll honestly if grahe gets second booking behind that there look at that I think we finished on a note falling out all all the time no that's what I mean you've agreed on something at the end think because something I've always felt that I one of the best people I've worked in punditry with is Neil lenen is that right sh and let me tell you we we we were two PS are two P's at the same p and I think this is how it's transpired for him he's learned his trade of him him he learned most of his trade of Brian KF Brian KF and Bob Paisley they would have been two PS at the same pod so their views have been transmitted through generations and that's why I felt working with Neil lenen was as good as it got for me in pund tre and I think I think we both see football the same so we're not going to fall out over much certainly not over who's the biggest name in the phone book honestly I can't believe that's that's the note that we but honestly you agree with that I absolutely you're talking about NE which I've mentioned before and I think you're right he's he's he's a he's a smart guy an intelligent fellow you know and uh all this here not the best looking fellow in the world but you know but at the end of the day brilliant great maybe maybe a future guess for us see then when you take all that competitive spirit in that edge and and you are in The Dugout and you mentioned about you know kind of learning and and ring things in what's the preparation like as Preparing for the Old Firm as a manager a manager for an old firm game is it is it different do do you need to tailor it or how does it that's a very good question and honestly and you know sometimes memory plays tricks with you and you and you think that you did something that you actually probably didn't do at all but I I know that for the for the the first game where I was really concerned about it and then so weeks preparation I don't mean preparation for us I mean talking about this talking about the newspapers talking about the media every single day and uh and it's a buildup to the whole thing and I remember speaking to to uh to Walter Smith way back some years and Walter's path and I didn't cross at all Walter was obviously with with grahe at the time and he said that at the end of the games even if you got a result you felt relief more than anything else if you if particularly if you if you won the game rather than unbelievable Euphoria I'm not so sure that I felt that in the first game I was obviously delighted to to have won the game but in terms of the buildup it is an impossibility for you not to know that the Rangers absolutely an impossibility during the you feel that even the players have a different a different attitude to the training they're more tuned in they're everything there there's nowhere like Glasgow right the Goldfish bow nature of it there's nowhere that you've played players are aware you're aware how important is to your supporters you know it spoils certainly the following week if not until the next old firm game I mean you are very much aware how important it is I made the school Bo error my first press conference of saying don't care if we lose four times to Celtic as as long as we win the league I didn't take a breath from certain certain journalist because that was we were educated that's absolutely right I I'm not I'm not sure that I said this in the public Gallery but I did I think I said it to in in a sort of a thing for for Celtic supporters here they weren't having that makes sense GES and Los nearly nearly would do absolutely and I thought to myself that that's crazy and I never said it again just shows how unique the do is it is it is such a speci You' been players then as you mentioned see when you're managing them I don't whether it's new Lenin or players then that that that you did you have to do you feel you had to reain them into to what point can you let these approach it you know when I all my education really about football was from Liverpool and how they you when we play the bigger games or Cup finals they try to keep everything to a minimum like if we were playing a cup final at Wembley teams who where it was a new experience for them they would go down on a chose or a weddingday and make a whole you know we of it sleeping in different beds eating different food different pillows out of the routine and we we'd go down on a Friday to to hotel somewhere in North London in preparation for the final on a Saturday so now they kept it to the same and and and I would try and do that for all firm games but the players know the players fill their cars up with petrol they go to the school they might go to the shops and you know the street they live and they know they get the vibe that this is special occasion and I brought a lot of English players up here and you would had English guys as well and foreigners and they quickly get it they you know they feed off that and I had some I had some I'm a great believer in you've got no chance of being successful as a manager unless you got good senior Pros I had no job to do after I got likes the Terry Butcher and R Wilkins Mark kitley Richard G there's no job for me I didn't have to come down at half time and point a finger at anyone and saying how about a bit more by the time I got got from the the the um directors walked down to the dressing room it was all sorted and that's how it was in my dressing room at Liverpool I like to think certainly in the early days that's what it was like and I like to think as I went through the system I was like I was that senior player that you know Ken and I would square up on okay and throw punches at each other that happened a couple of times and do you think we used to room together and do you think now that Rangers are kind of lacking a little bit of that fighting comp I just think because financially have not been able to buy the kind of players that that um should be playing for Rangers and that's a financial thing for Celtic by qualifying for the Champions League in a regular bases getting that money having been cute in the transfer market with some players there's another example of R going this week you know they've got they've got a lot of money in the bank where Rangers don't have and Rangers are buying you know Celtic are in a position there where they can buy players for two years time Rangers are buying players under pressure that have to perform next Saturday and that's a difficult that's that's a very difficult job description go out and find me the next gam next one I can spend next Riley did they spend a million on him yeah a million and a half that that's the beauty of being I always felt see if you agree with this I always felt as a Rangers manager you could be sitting second in the league you lost the first old firm game you're playing the best football but you lost all that old firm game so you're seconding in the league all the pressure is on you all the spotlight is on you all the criticism is on you like you said after you know losing one game is that League over then after your first game so it's I I just felt if you're you have to be number one and you're sailing off into the sunset with no pressure on you and all the pressure is on that number two team and you could be playing you could be the best team and it's and that impacts on some players they find it hard to play under that kind of scrutiny and pressure suppose man management then on occasions like that become so important you've mentioned yeah you've mentioned some of the big names and you know the big characters and fighting Spirit guys like John Brown how did you how did you handle him on on big match The big characters of Graeme and Martin’s time days well bom I say this he was unique I mean you never have to speak to him didn't have to you know tell me train properly I mean I sign John I sign John Brown because when I was still playing my first year we played at dund D I remember it was a night game and I'm as a guy you know try to go through me every time I get the ball I'm thinking who the is this and I come in at Hal time I said to Walter well I think he was weing I think he might had number six I said who's number six every time I get the ball he's tring to you know he's up for it oh I should have told you about him that's bomber John Brown he's a big blue Noose I oh so I got for the second half and he's starty to do the same and I have caught him a couple of times it had no impact on whatsoever he just got up he must have been a hard man he he was he he right up for it so at the end of the game on the way back down GL I think we should sign him water um he said no can he's got a dodgy knee I said I don't give a he's like he's he's up for it you know he'd be a great asset in the dress room anyway who signed him in the rest of this history what a what an individual he was and I have to say this we um he used to get so fired up for games you know he used to blow up do an hour and he was like hav to come off and anyway we worked out that he was so excited prior to games he was over over what would you call it hyperventilating yeah yeah and he used to sit in the dress room before game with a brown paper bag breathing into a brown paper bag so all the carbon dioxide wasn't leaving his system and and he was that solved his problem he was so far up for I don't I don't know if he was like that playing for Dundee but when he came to Rangers he he had it was as if he had come to his spiritual home he's born A Rang supporter I wonder if the sports scientists of today would have the I'm not sure I'm not sure but you know what goes on in his head is quite unique to most football paper bag at all better not make any accusations Martin who were the big I don't know if it's similar or just the those kind of big characters that you perhaps relied on in these games I think as Graham said that um sometimes that the big characters do all the work for you I when I came first of all the only thing that because they had been so far behind there was definitely a lack of confidence within the team so it was a matter of trying to get the confidence going a little bit and number one and two trying to get some players in so we lost vuka at the time and he was a big player I wanted him to stay at the football club but he had fallen out with just about everyone I think at the time so he went to lead United I turned the money over for Chris Sutton and Sutton became a big player don't tell him that but he became a really big player for us and he had started off a really good um partnership with Henrik Larson Larson was just coming back Larsson fantastic football he was fantastic footballer absolutely tell he the difference for you I'm thinking night at Park with Blackburn absolutely we we'll definitely I must get my one back in soon tell you about that one but in a second or two so but um but no Larsson Larsson was big but I signed some really B uh really good players um signed Sutton to begin with replacement for viduka something did great um uh Alan Thompson came in dagat came in as well too but uh and lenon lenon I signed Lennon around about the Christmas time of that same year l was big player for big big player really really good like like him like a Roy Keen of the side and where I where I thought that lenon was fantastic was that they not only he was he was in the dressing room he's yapping all the time but before the game halfway through we could be leading 3-0 in the game and he still find something to CHP at you know and um but I I I enjoyed it because he it kept people going and where I where I thought it was big he could he could be playing not so so well in a game but still have an influence in the side in the sense that you still be chirping at other people and no one had ever said to to him listen you're not doing so well here today you know and I did say it to him once at a half time I said hold on because he was having a go with you I said you're not doing too and then he said oh well then okay then I'll not I'll stop talking that well I didn't want that either so I had to come back around again and then say to him no no I want you to keep going he was a big player for us but I had lots of you know Paul Lambert won the Champions League with Dortmund really good player but Larson was a was a major player in the site and I and this is a joke I said that um when John Robertson um I said to John one day I said John John Henrik hasn't scored yet he said we haven't kicked off yet but uh so that was the but that was the sort of influence that Larson Larson had in the side with a lot of good players lot of lot of strong characters that just lost a little bit of belief but that was all you talk about big players going back to when you were playing at notam Forest because of the personality of your Graeme’s arrival at Liverpool manager who was a big personality dominant personality was there did you have that in that dress room you must have to be successful we we we we did we did maybe not to the same extent as you boys were running it and I know you say that that and I think it's a really great story of you signing from middlesbor to go to uh to Liverpool and asking of Ronnie Moran no it was Joan I was Joel F my story can I tell it you you tell it is your story I forgot it was his story so I go to I was a record transfer free between two English clubs canny had come down from Glasgow record transfer between two British clubs I'd gone from midle to Liverpool record transfer free Joe Jordan had gone for 350,000 and the Rivalry still existed so Liverpool put £2,000 on my transfer fee you make it 352 so they could claim it was the biggest English transfer so I trained at Liverpool for a week basically W walk around the the um training ground malwood jog around a few stretches six aside for 40 minutes finish Sprints home Monday Tuesday Wednesday off Thursday the same Friday we travel down to West Brom first game is West Brom away from home quarter to three I'm sitting in the dressing room you know and there's toshak there emn Hughes Gahan RI Clemens Tommy Smith all the players who were just about to leave the club so quarter to three I plucked up courage and I said to um Joe Joe Fagan who was did you ever meet Joe I did absolutely genius I mean we talk about I mean I look back on my education I think I went to the equivalent of Oxford and Cambridge ABS Bob Pasley Joe Fagan Ronnie M no question so I said to Joe I said Joe can I have a word he said yes son and he spoke with a quiet quiet voice a real really really good man and um she what is it son I said yeah I said look Joe I've been here a week and no one said said anything to me how do he want me to play this response was off we spent all this money on you and you asking me how to play football and turned and walked away I never asked another question never asked a question you Celtic v Blackburn Rovers imagine saying that a modern player say they wantu constantly HR and you need to lie down for half hour speaking of which I'm get to get your thoughts specifically on you know this weekend but we can't let that opportunity pass by Henrik Larson Blackburn let's do it then we'll talk about what what what happened is that that um we played uh we were drawn against Blackburn Rovers and Blackburn under him were going great we going great in the league for for Blackburn Rover I know they had won the league before that there but you know times won The League Cup as well that's comp absolutely and um and they and I I think I think you played Arsenal at HB just before and I went down definitely to watch Blackburn play and honestly they were really decent side no question about it but but and the first game was at uh at parkhead and actually they played really well we actually won the game in the last minute which people forget about but they played really well they really well in the game that we were second best for the whole game but what what came out in the dressing room was a couple of players came out and said it's a man against boys man well it wasn't actually it was him anded to me no no it was attributed to because I knew that flitty wouldn't be able to said flitty being flitcraft wouldn't have said it he would have said it in the address now I can imagine exactly it's coming and with thought listen we don't have you know you're talking about a team talk was the first time ever that sunas has actually done our team talk so we thought we're we're we'll be ready we'll try and be ready for the game it's still a big big night for us but I must admit traveling down that evening as you it's pitar and there's a pub about 3 or 400 yards from Ewood Park to the left hand side as the bus drives in and it was full of Celtic fans coming out and giving it the old thing I thought oh listen we're not there in our own then what happened is that I had a peep out beforehand 45 minutes before when the players are going out doing their warm up and the end was absolutely full so Blackburn had given us the complete end so we had about 7,000 people in there that that night and on and you talk talk about the players being up for the game you scored early didn't you and we and I said we were terrific that night I can remember that goal at par it was the Celtic end if you were come out with the tunnel it was a corner kick on the furthest away and it went inflict on and like how's it end up in the back of the net and there's one guy running away with his loud drop was I tell how good loud drop was at that time I saw my definition of world class is someone L sorry sorry not L lson lson my definition of Larson at that time was or my definition a world class player is you can go anywhere and get in anyone's team and I think he could have done it I think anyone would have welcomed him he signed from Celtic to Barcelona you consider that he went to Barcelona and I know that he had a lot of uh a a lot of players that sorry really good players in front of and you know the um um etto was there at the time absolutely I think at the same time Brazilian the uh Ronald sorry did you say Ronald there so many and he came on in the final I know that arsenal were down to 10 men but he changed the course of the game because but Barcelona were going nowhere at the time so he changed the course of that there then I think at 34 years of age 34 he goes to man united and scores go and the great are Alex Ferguson for another year so that that I I think gr's absolutely right it tells you everything about see all that kind of managerial experience now when you look at the two men who've got big decisions this weekend they are in very different situations now because Celtic are the dominant side and under Brendon Rogers then for Philipe clemont how important gam to try you know dig something out in this fixture all these things we hear about you know laying down a marker or whatever it may be what do you make of him the job he's doing Graeme and Martin on Clement and Rodgers and what he's got to face I think he's done a very good job I think he's um you know he's working with the poers he's got I'm sure like every manager um Brendan the same you always want more and more players and better players and right now for Philip clemont it's they don't have the budget to give him that and I think he's what he's working with it he's he's getting the most out of them and I think he's he's done very well but um obviously it's at parkhead which makes obviously Celtic favorites at this time Celtic would be favorites maybe playing it even I broos but I come back to that doesn't mean they're going to win the game of football I think Philip clont has done a great job a great job but he knows you know that's a I'll finish this he knows what he has to do he knows he has to start winning all firm games how quickly did you get being a Celtic manager what you grew up as a Celtic supporter I presume yeah I you know i' Northern Ireland can I say I think I think are you you from Belfast no I'm not from Belfast but but I think Northern Ireland be more akin to maybe all of Northern the towns in northern Island more akin to Glasgow than I would say Edinburgh was that I grew up in you know that's probably true yeah yeah you're aware of that rivalry far more yeah you know the unfortunate and very unattractive part of that rivalry but exists more in every town in tell me if I'm wrong Norther W in Edinburgh when I was grown up so so you got it right away coming to to Celtic you know what you're walking into I yeah you think that you know what you're walking into to you know really because we had um yeah I'd grown up as a um as you do I mean I'm I'm a Catholic Nationalist and that so in in Ireland I'm Northern Ireland I'm going to support Celtic my my you always had an english team as you were growing up my English team actually was Sunderland but that was primarily because they had a big Irish Center half P that one from but it was my favorite team on jley Charlie Hurley Charlie Harley Charlie Hurley and um I was at a boarding school for 5 years so talking about his prefabs and stuff like this here I haven't went to a boarding school we're sitting with a POS essentially know that essentially absolutely I went to school that day they did Spelling you got it right away I got it absolutely I didn't get that on day one did you I suppose Brendan Rogers is now he's experienced it before so that's where it's maybe a bit is a bit different and he Martin what what's he facing currently because if it was just about what was happening on the pitch then life is Rosy and Celtic are winning everything and have started the season really well right now though the transfer window is open and everyone's looking to see okay how does maty get replaced and what what does that look like what's that what what's he going through just now what do you think that challenge looks like well I think that um yeah the the the transfer window especially as it's closing down now and you think you've just lost a very influential player to your to your side he is honestly he's turned out a really good player no question about it but um and naturally as a manager he' be disappointed that he lost a player because you want to keep them you know and and the powers that b have made the decision that they they they think this is a really good deal for the football club financially it probably is but are you saying there's two things in his head first of all there's the transfer deadline coming up and two the big game the big match now as Graham said anything can actually happen in the game so he'd be trying to focus in the match but he's lost an influential Midfield player will they be trying to get a replacement I'm sure they will be and want because replacement will they spend them looking at it they ain't going to spend the 25 milon they be looking for the next player that can spend small money on and in three years time sell for 25 million yeah that that's that's true but also he'll have an eye now in the Champions League you know they did it La last season actually probably their best half was against Atletico Madrid you know in in in the first half of that that game I was there but this is where I think this is for Celtic and Rangers because of the history of the football clubs and Celtic won the you know first British team to win the European Cup way back in 1967 that's what all Celtic s should aspire to and Rangers were the first British team to be in the European final as well I think that was 61 cup winers cup so they both have abs the history now that seems a long way away at this minute you know because of the finances that you're we we're talking about but getting back to what Brendan thinks so he's got a twofold thing in his head in the next couple of days can he get the replacement in a decent replacement in um and can he be thinking about the Champions League draw which is you know and also i' be thinking about the the game that that they're going into as strong favorites to win this game at home but might not do but Riley's doesn't get transferred on on the Wednesday and brenon finds out on the Tuesday the day before so that that thing would have been they've known about this transfer for a long time yeah so that would give Brenan a chance to have a look at what's out there a replac but I don't see Celtic Celtic are sitting with a few quid in the bank as well I don't see Celtic spending bit the 25 million that they got for Ry I think they'll be looking to no that be a smart a smart buy yeah um and Brendan wouldn't be happy with that me as a manager i' be saying look we can't sit on laurels yeah we've won the last was it eight of the was it 13 games Rangers have won one game last well Philip clemont hasn't won one yet and there was four in the league and one in the Cup last yeah you you've got to assume you know as a manager that you know you you're going to slip up you get injuries see you're always want wanting more and better players so I would imagine I'm not trying to be cute and clever and create a problem that may not exist I know a fan Brendan sitting there I I've just saw one of my best players for 25 million I'm looking for that money I'm wanting to go and buy someone for that kind of money and how will clont be feeling not having one-1 in his first season as well that must be the pressure is on him yeah I mean I I come back to you know if you if you if you look at it in the hole in the big picture Celtic are a good bit in front of Rangers but I come back to the two games I saw last year both won by the odd goal you know the two1 win when Rangers went to 10 men that par C in the league and the Cup Final I I I thought Rangers were unlucky in the Cup Final maybe had the best chances most of the ball but I football is the maddest game the minute you're trying and attached logic to game of football you end up scratching your head at the end of 90 minutes right where will this one be won and lost and let's end with a a prediction SC a prediction from each of you then what do you expect me to say I think can go there and play a brand of football that that can win the game I think I'm I think the manager have got is cute enough um when I say cute enough has he he's a quick learner and he'll have looked at these games and he have worked out what he needs to do it's not what he he can try and get the message across what his team have to do to win because the guy's on a pitch it win it for you or lose it for you so he'll be preparing him in a way that he's now got some experience of old firm games which is is important um but of course Brendan has a lot more experience in that department and right now they have a better group of players than what we have but I come back to it as a game of football it's 90 minutes where D things could happen prediction from you Martin they definitely would have to they would have to improve their mentality because I I I thought the mentality yeah I I I I well it's ability for for a start and I don't think there's enough ability in the Rangers team it's more ability than mentality okay I think if we we've spoken earlier about putting Petrol in your car and going to pay for the petrol and the guy there's we got a win this weekend or other side of the coin you know you your next door neighbor got to win this week so I think in terms of being aware what you need to do to win the football match I think players on both sides will know what they have to do to win a an old firm game it is a really really difficult game to win and I think it comes down to special players on the day all right I'll get back to Graham's point which I agree with on the day you can get you can get a result if you're talking about the overall picture uh Celtic are much much stronger because I believe that Celtic can go away and win football matches away from home Rangers by the time that they get back to I Brooks again might have dropped a few more points they might not but this is very very important for Rangers big big game for Rangers now because uh he hasn't won a game for you know so it comes back to that again you lose that game the the newspapers will right the League's already over drawing at heart's open day of the season they' end up being F what that Five Points behind Celtic after four games it's a big gap already to tryig Gap it's not it's not insurmountable but your season was over over after one game that's Madness of all well Len obviously we could do hours on that fixture and it's been unbelievable to get the Insight let's take a look at what else we've got coming up this weekend across the the leagues of course we're used to the European Thursdays tend to mean the league split across at dunde absolutely flying aren't they and it's been a really tough start for s m juggling European football so those sides will meet at dens Park St Johnston motherwell again motherwell perhaps the result of the weekend I would say that wouldn't I uh at hars but taking on hars last week so St Johnston and Ross County Alber a nice evening kick off there uh p on just now obviously aren't they a few teams that maybe could just be doing with a win to take that pressure off This week’s fixtures that the guys mentioned Hearts would definitely be one of them KY as well I feel like European football is such a big b for not used a quick look down at the the other leagues as well I just wonder what far flung Stadium you're going to go to You're the ultimate man what's like the most obscure fixture CU that's the one you'll be at but again air United absolutely flying at the start so F and D firland bottom currently playing a top that's nice oh there we go there's the the other Derby in Glasgow partic thisle and Queens Park not get quite the same attention is the one we've been speaking to but to those involved it will be important let's keep going again just to make sure people know what we've got this is this is your this is your strength this my but to your own where are you where are you fancy K having a good season against bon in vanesse Queen of the South obviously that's a huge trip for queen of the sou to be going all the way up there you and your Pro Camera should head a quick look at League two as well just to make sure Sam because we might want to send you to one of them Bonny rig stran raw Bonny rig's struggling Edinburgh City had their issues Peter head having a good season as well Clyde I mean they were a big Club I suppose when you you ever have to you know Cup games and stuff do you what do you ever have like a an away game at Rangers at one of the so-called smaller grounds we thought well this is you know this is Scottish Football everyone with banana skin because see if you agree with this come back if you're a Rangers manager and you're playing against a team when I was playing mhm I come off and I said to Walter who's number like how we got John Brown who's number four or number you keep an eye on him so you I'm playing and this guy's been on it but I've been playing against him and I'd go watch him following week or the week after that and he's nothing like the player just right raising the game sort of thing I work out you playing against two types of player you're playing against either a ranger supporter or you're playing against a Celtic supporter the ranger supporter would play because he wants to play for Rangers and the Celtics support your repic hated you so either way they're fully motivated so Rangers and Celtic don't have easy games they don't start off as easy games they got to be right you know the last thing you would hear and I'm sure it still exists today the last thing you would hear a coach stroke manager saying to the players as they walk out the door make sure you start right today make sure you start right today and that certainly applies to Rangers and Celtic teams amazing really delighted in uh obviously the big game tune in and enjoy that but with the the the words of these guys ringing in your ears I'm sure Sam any fin M yeah thanks for coming great to chat to everyone watching make sure you subscribe to the show so you don't miss more great guests like we've had in today see you next thing