okay well we better get going while they're
getting is good so we're back with we are back another text another Tome another work another
number 13 is that right wow yes yes it is that is right so this was called the Pixar if oh no the
Pixar touch the Pixar touch and by uh I don't even know who is it well it's your favorite author
who wrote uh Jamestown yes I do like that which you like yep the Pixar Touch by David David
a price and this is only his second book He's only written two books in his life I guess
uh so we had uh Colonial jamest Town and then Pixar is a pretty uh wide wide yeah expertise not
necessarily I think he just inter well expertise on the Jamestown but I think for this he just
interviewed people probably yeah what did you think of this one I thought it was a light read I
think it was uh easy to read I didn't find it too interesting I you know I got through it pretty
quick and um only a couple of things surprised me um I think he's a good historical recorder I
I guess I guess I trust his um not interpretation he's just kind of a reporter and um so it wasn't
very juicy as far as I could tell um it was just the facts ma'am yeah it was not very salacious or
Sensational or juicy yeah I was thinking that too that or interesting you know give me really
give me the dirt um but yeah I think that uh he's I mean he must be just a a super fan and
he's like I'm going to do this I mean cuz no one else is doing it and I'm going to do it and then
just what he uncovered was just um yeah a bunch of dudes who were like you know really um into it
just just nailed it and overcame all the you know inept dinosaurs who got in their way kind of thing
eventually yes yeah so I I think I think that's it what struck me was really important that was the
context of the times you know the the concept of the garage computer people you know wnc and Steve
Jobs which followed the garage band which is you know our audio names sake um it was that you know
you can start out in your garage and go go places right you can be a rock star or you can be a Steve
Jobs with Apple computer um I think the time was right and oh not the time was right but they are a
product of their time um and it just took so damn long it just really took a long time yeah that
was I was thinking of what angles to you know overhead and and stuff well like you know M that's
kind of the Romantic musicians angle uh yep yep or um yeah like bosses who don't know they're trying
to thrust on you things to be profitable you know ASAP that's a typical story but he didn't yeah
he just kind of reported what happened and then that and then we take all that away because all
those things that you mentioned are are part of their story absolutely you know having you know
bosses that are impervious or or you know having to have a patron the artistic element has to have
a patron um and you know the the the Intrigue that went on in all the you know all the castles of all
the players was really was surprising to me but kind of kind of interesting it was just kind of I
think it was it's all there but it's just a little bit lowkey for some reason I yeah then I maybe
you know struck upon his uh style is like here I'm just going to I'm just going to tell you like
what it is and what happened and he did get into the into the nuts and bolts of like their early
software makings and their early contract work of surviving to generate uh profits and keep to keep
the you know the boat afloat right as they this is all business banking speak I'm GNA pepper it in
there which is also a business Banker nomenclature no and uh so and he did he just like th I thought
the book was like thorough um but yeah you were left being like yeah but come on well help me out
here give me some dirt I thought he was kind of yeah like a what a a serious writer like and then
I once I I was like oh I have to go find these examples myself cuz he's writing about you know
video and digital uh thing so I asked did you did you look up on YouTube the different things they
made the commercials or the different examples of their breakthroughs I did I although I didn't have
to go on YouTube they're all on Disney Channel all the all the Pixar shorts are on Disney Channel
so I saw I watch watched them all and all of them that you know cuz Pixar has its own subset within
on the Disney plus Channel and so all those John Lasser the little the red the the the unicycle
thing the lamp the lamp short um and all of the things that they've had since Disney bought them
and there's more you know there's a ton more um so I did watch all of those I watched everything
and they are brilliant they are they are wonderful yeah I love Pixar I think part of it is that we
were there during the unfolding this is we we're you know this is our the book is our look behind
the scenes but we you know I mean I saw Monsters Inc when it first came out fell in love with
it absolutely love it um and so I've seen all of these uh movies except the Cars one well
I think I did see it because I know I didn't like it um my least favorite but we're sort of
it's like you know maybe reading a book about um the covid pandemic we're there we don't need to
read a book about it we were there you know but but this looking at the inner workings and the um
frustrations um behind the screen it was mildly interesting but not not it didn't uh it wasn't
captivating let's say that yeah that that is a good way to put it like um you know the Jamestown
book he just talks about people dying everywhere bodies everywhere people getting scalped and uh or
starving and digging up bodies like there's enough um you know movies or you can imagine like last
of the micans okay those okay so that's what's happening here and but it was real and um but
when he talks about words like rendering or Ser render Farms or uh the Caps program that was
a breakthrough or uh Ray tracing what's in the later chapter uh you had to kind of yeah there's
no what is I don't know what that is so you might be like hey you know help me out here writer but
it might be like yeah I'm I told you it I can't I literally can't show you what it is so that was we
like okay I I got to find this out myself so oh I see what you mean yeah yeah he kind of just uh not
stoically just kind of uh I don't know like just plainly says that's what it was in English and I
can't I can't uh uh Envision Envision this for you you have to you have to go find it which is there
on YouTube so um I think maybe yeah we one thing that was interesting that I was surprised was um
was yeah that talking about that Pixar program that helped to get Pixar's foot in the door of
Disney and um where Disney you know draws um cartoons and it's super leborious and that's where
Walt Disney's kind of management style went in of of uh assembly line style high pressure whatever
keep labor wage down to make production costs enough to be profitable that was his um you
know his whole thing but like I found this video explaining what that caps program was so
I want you to check this out okay all right so instead of putting everything on the same plane
they took elements from the setting and they put them on different planes on different cells and
then they spread those different settings out and then with this camera they can move different
planes at different speeds to create this Parallax effect to make it look like the moon stays in the
same place the whole time while the rest of the setting moves at different speeds this is a genius
solution to this all right so he says how yeah as you you know of course cartoons are going left
to right that's you have something moving on a background but in this shot you go the viewer goes
into the scene and um I guess he says parallax is when things that are further away seem to be
moving slower than things that are moving um uh that think that than what's immediately in front
of you like he has a video of a car driving oh we're going pretty slow right but then actually
the view is cropped in where if you zoom out he's going like 70 mil an hour so the the lines
immediately in front of the car are like zoom zoom zoom but the lines that are ahead of the car are
slowly creeping up until they quickly speed up and he says that and let's see if I can quickly jump
to how they Disney used to do it this was a hugely like costly uh thing to do massive like this thing
took up so much space just to get these types of shots but this solution has a big problem it's
incredibly expensive and by expensive I mean it takes a lot of Labor to make this thing work you
have all these different planes AA ailable to use and so you have to keep track of the distance of
each plane from the camera you have to keep track of how much each plane needs to move horizontally
or vertically all these different movements you have all right so he says how yeah mathematically
by how fast you want to seem like you're moving you have to calculate how fast how much closer
to the camera each plane has to shift and you're so you're just you're figuring out okay so if
this if the moon is infinitely far away that's like the final whatever and a and a house is
10 m is whatever 10 miles away and this tree is like uh 30t away mathematically how much do I
very uh minutely bring those planes closer to the viewer and so that's why he says like for old
Disney movies where that shot would take like like weeks to do uh like 10 seconds for a computer
yeah that's yeah for oh for for 10 for 10 seconds of film for 10 seconds of visual film right of of
no action setup to an intro uh he's like yeah so it's just ridiculous so um he says the book says
that in in the final scene of The Little Mermaid that that is there that and they tried it out that
Pixar is like you know a computer can do that for you they a computer can figure out how you just
punch it in and it'll it'll do that and they were like you know mystified by that and so then he
writes on to say that the lion king um had so many it was like everywhere there were like there were
like 30 of them all thanks to the um caps Pixar software so that opening scene is so impressive
let's see if I can cut do it here like the different planes as he's flying through you can
kind of see the things that are moving together on a single plane and then you have subsequent planes
after it all zooming in as he flies through them that's why this is an impressive shot because it's
using this multiplane effect but again when I say that this is not the most impressive starting shot
here this one is more impressive because it's a throwaway shot and yet it's using this multiplay
effect before caps they never would have done a multiplane shot for something so insignificant
H so yeah Lion King is like loaded with those basically the precursor to like 3D animation
I guess where where the characters and things are moving in the cartoon and you are getting
closer as well um so I thought that was pretty cool uh I'll show this and this is horrible for
the listeners but but yeah so this is um Hunchback of notra that intro scene which I actually
do remember these multiplane shots for Grand cinematic just beautiful impressive establishing
shots something as simple as so yeah as as you that shot as the camera going into the French
or Paris you know neighborhood would be like enormously costly and just be like we're not going
to do this so I thought that was that was pretty neat that was Pixar's first way to get in and they
were just a a vendor or like a a animation little unit do these these certain no action setup shots
or something well it's it's and it's the Pixar touch it's that what what all of this is and the
reason you know what first of all the Jamestown setting is so much more dramatic of course because
dramatic things are happening people are dying survival is um on on the table here um as also our
own history so it's more maybe more interesting to us but just the nature of the development within
Pixar these these technological um developments are Monumental but virtually invisible to us
because it what they're representing is reality and so we just assume yeah that yeah of course of
course I expect to see it this way not recognizing the enormous amount of work and technological
advances that needed to occur behind the scenes for us to simply enjoy it and it's a cartoon you
know it's not Earth shaking events it's it's a cartoon so I think that's why and we can't I think
that's why we just simply cannot quite appreciate all the work that went into it except that as we
all know when you have the credits for any Pixar movie it's obvious all the technicians are first
and the voice actors come much much much later because their role in it is so small compared to
all the all the tech workers and always there are so many babies born during these movies they list
them so you know that there are yearslong events yearslong projects to do these movies did did
you notice that in the in the credits of these movies have you stayed for credits they always
list all the babies that were born during the making of no I've never because that oh yes
because it takes so many years to make these movies yeah that's crazy they he keeps commenting
on how every new animation challenge just consumes rendering time which is a process that a computer
will do at I guess of of of printing a frame of movement into a whatever the final version yeah I
don't even know what it is but I know it's a it's a somehow kind of an assimilation or a bringing
together of everything that needs to be brought together and it's done by computer instead of by
human beings somehow by looking and going back you know back and not a lot of back and forth thing
so yeah we don't I'm not able anyway to appreciate the terrific uh technological advances that went
into making these movies and you know early on in one of the early chapters the one about catmull
who have you ever heard of him who's the president of Pixar you know he's The Tech Guy um he it was
a brand new field for um for him and this was some time ago so he was he was exploring so all of the
all of the stuff that happened with Pixar was all exploration and the technology wasn't Advanced
enough to to create what they wanted to try and create like any you know burgeoning or beginning
industry it's um you know it's a back and forth of Technology creating what's possible artists asking
for more and Technology rising to the occasion so um what it was described as is he he did a lot
of um early on technological advances even as a graduate student but there was no marketable
product and there's no jobs out there for what he was interested in doing so he was ahead of his
time absolutely as any as any new um industry or any new Venture is and when you're ahead of your
time like Lasser was and he tries to you know work at Disney and do something interesting then the
old old guys you know squashed him he got fired by do trying to do an end around um around the old
way of doing uh animation yeah it's so crazy it's um yeah it is funny this was a you know of course
you know we're from Silicon Valley I worked there and it's just you're just Sur surrounded by just
um people who have money just to throw away at at like their job is literally just to throw money
away cuz there's so much just pouring into that specific area and uh but yeah this was that apple
and eBay and Google were like you know the real ones that caught everyone's attention so this is a
before all that where literally this old dude just was rich like a great gadsby and just hired people
hey would you know make something we're going to make we're going to make the best computer you
can make that's going to cost like $50,000 I'm talking hospitals are going to want it I'm talking
like Nas is going to want it I'm talking uh DARPA or whatever and literally the staff are just
let's see how long we can just capture this guy's money yeah and make make a movie right and
then they and then they split and uh so that's not a typical way to do something um but but yeah
they kind of they did they totally just uh just kind of scammed this guy for well and he he used
them also cuz he that was this sh sh Shu who he started this school that was really just a you
know a diploma Mill in in the on the East Coast so he you know he was just a billionaire I suppose
and what do you want you want this okay let's buy that and he bought 50 of them or something some
huge expensive computers but he was also trying to catch the wave you know I mean it was the times
and it was Tech was King so how many people I mean I remember when you guys were little and I heard
I would hear about oh yeah these friends of mine they live in paloalto and they did a startup he
sold it now they're Millionaires and so everybody wanted to get in on that you know it was just it
was all part of that Garage Band going to computer band going to you know create an nowadays it's
create an app right that some big company will buy and make you a millionaire yep the um so then
they then they I mean they get then this the team gets they leave they ditch you know that guy
and they split to uh George Lucas's you know hot ticket after making Star Wars and he hired them to
say look I don't we're flying around little models and yeah just you know shooting frame by frame
of like spaceships flying around I this is just taking too much time kind of like that animation
example it's just we have to shoot every single one so can you do that with a computer and they
don't really make anything for him they uh kind of yeah they just kind of futz around they have a
those powerful computers that's their kind of big asset and just keep working on how to make these
like super short little videos um and finally like uh nothing really happens that like yeah Lucas
Arts had their own little digital team that they Liv next to or something that yeah the writer
goes into a lot of detail here about that and I'm like is this going to be relevant later or well
what's I think what's interesting about this is that like uh their first Patron sure Lucas wanted
to use them for his purposes he wanted computers to streamline you know editing sound editing
editing and stuff very practical purposes but always these guys wanted to make animated movies
and so whoever their Patron was they were at Cross purposes or at least they were at different
purposes at least George Lucas even the shore they were they had more practical reasons in mind
and remember that at this time um apparently the Disney Studios their animation Department was
just kind of moraband it wasn't doing much and so uh it was animation wasn't a hot ticket or an
interesting topic but technology in general was so let's use computers to uh streamline these effects
they did create this Pixar Imaging computer but it had again not much marketability and didn't really
serve Lucas's purposes and then in 1986 George Lucas got a divorce and so he stting to sell off
some of his assets including this whole division he told catmull again to sell the division and
so they started looking for a buyer yep yeah it's all yeah that's true it's all uh uh you know
that's that's kind of the heart of the thing like um yeah I'm going to pay you and I'm going to buy
this for something later but you know now would be better and that's the main complaint like yeah
I like how yeah the book actually the book did a good job of just saying yeah the bosses they they
wanted something it's not just like hey um hey uh Mozart I'm uh you know yeah whatever you want uh
yeah you please you're you know you know the they they were like come on what are we what are we
doing and so so many yeah people young people like you're describing like well I have an idea just
just let me do it like well who wants just pay me and let me do it right right what are you what
are you talking about like well if you just let me do it then I'll it'll work MH like well yeah
and that's what um yeah it's just crazy it is but all Artistic Endeavors or or we can stretch that
Beyond artistic but like Mozart uh they need a patron somebody who will support them so that they
can produce art um but these guys wanted something more marketable and so they were at odds the you
know the patrons and um the Pixar company yeah and then they got bought by Steve Jobs who knew I had
no idea that Steve Jobs was involved with Pixar in any way shape or form yeah that is weird um but
whoa whoa whoa did you happen to before that while they were still with Lucas did you read about
that little video they made about Andre and w B that like blew people's minds at the time
you watch that I I guess I did not watch that because um we should watch that okay all right
so this this was what they made while working for George Lucas and George Lucas like look I'm
trying to make you know actual movies so can you help with that and they said yeah but check
this out so here's what they made it's one minute I think I did see this but let's see okay okay so a bee kind of bothering a sleeping
guy guy runs away and the bee chases him and the bee stings him and that's it that's the
whole that's it uh now it was it is impressive though uh you know shading is you know super hard
for artists to do like where's the light but they that is there in that video which is um I don't
know when it's from but but yeah you could see the the light the bee casting a shadow on the other
thing uh but yeah if I was George Lucas I'd be like what is this yeah because yeah he's making
real movies he's not interested in animation but that's exactly what these guys want to do they
want to make and they want to make cartoons they want to make an animation movies full that
they want to make a full uh what do you call it you know uh feature animated they want to make an
animation feature animated feature whatever they they want to make a full full length thing and
but what is also what's ironic is like what's what ironic later is that when Lucas re-releases Star
Wars all three movies in the theaters with new CG animated little scenes and they were horrendous
like I think they had like Jaba the Hut kind of wiggling around talking to Harrison Ford in
a deleted scene and it was like what is what are you what the hell is this and it was just like
what and then Yoda I think was a cartoon character suddenly and everyone was like what are you doing
so much for industrial Light and Magic yeah yeah well that's the Pixar touch yeah yeah this uh
the the ability to show a a shadow like that was a huge breakthrough as I recall reading you know
was to to get that realistic um um presentation of something casting a proper Shadow was a huge
breakthrough yep um so then yeah he goes to they go to Steve Jobs um and he's famous already he's
uh you know pretty rich uh from Apple although I think he was ousted from there but it wasn't such
a public exit oh yes it was oh yes it was oh yeah I remember he got kicked out of of apple and he's
you know even though this revealed we all knew that wnc is the one that sort of designed the
Apple computer in this book we discovered that somebody else actually um somebody else's design
was really and I didn't write down the details was really instrumental in um the ultimate design of
of uh Apple Computers but he was the force behind it he was well again like Shure and like Lucas
he was the Visionary he was the the Visionary that had the drive to uh get what he wanted and
do what he wanted but his ouster from Apple was huge gigantic and then he started his own company
called called Next another computer company but I guess he's he had a lot of money of course I think
he had a lot of money but he didn't buy um Pixar for the amount of money that um uh Lucas wanted
to sell it for he waited until the price came down to five million and that's what he bought it for
yeah he so he's pretty Savvy about value yeah he I didn't that's i g I gathered that from the book
too he was pretty Savvy about financing and Market and yeah rival bids he's like yeah I think it's
it's something but it's not this much and um he knew yeah it's all you know value is tied to Mark
it's tied to products and who are the customers and how much do they want it now how much are
they going to want it later and so he was pretty yeah Savvy at that I I I realized as he is just a
dude from California who who kind of yeah played those New Yorkers who are you know the Hub of all
valuations of of you know of those big IPOs and sales like that he's like no I'm going to wait
and um it was even like kind of a joint thing like I'll pay five in cash and some and I think
Phillips also was the co- partner or something and they gave five million so it's like uh the company
was worth 5 million but also another 5 million to to like keep it operating into the the future yeah
it was uh it was complicated is right yeah in the end like 5 million went to Lucas and another five
went to the workers so they could operate and you know do something yeah they did get some shares
I think but it it was it was interesting that he you know what he had and God saved me what this
book taught me is God saved me from Visionaries I don't want to you know I don't want to deal with
Visionaries they're just exhaust in and especially Steve Jobs he was this was pretty revealing about
him in a very pretty much mild way about how um difficult he was to put it mildly um for his
employees to deal with him and uh but there's no denying that he uh he did parlay this into a lot
of money for himself and and came out of at the End of This Book you know he ended up with Disney
stock and all kinds of you know great things of course he died of course a very young age so I
don't know I'm not sure what good it did him yeah I think and I mean Apple now is the most valuable
company in human history right now so like uh you know whatever uh Amazon or Bezos or whoever the
the individual people are who are the most rich people or musk but apple as a company is has the
most the $2.3 trillion do in value in terms of if you had all the stock you would be a trillionaire
yeah a multi- trillionaire of course he's a book on his own and there have been movies made
about him too but even to just follow the Steve Jobs thing you know Trail a little bit further
eventually Apple had him come back on and it was at a time when Apple was uh floundering and he's
the one that brought it back to uh the black and you know by introducing things like iPods and the
iPhone and all that kind of stuff he was extremely Innovative but as far as um Pixar and Steve
Jobs go they also were at Cross purposes because catmull he wanted you know computer machines to
serve the artist so they could be big expensive machines to serve the artistic needs of a few
people just the artists that are making animation uh animated films but jobs always had this vision
of we'll have one of these in every home by such and such a date you know he his Apple computer put
put one in every home he sort of envisioned this also uh for what the um Pixar folks were working
on and so again they were at Cross purposes yeah it was funny he said that yeah the the word
processor the home computer computer he could see that that will um replace desktop publishing which
is is that where you write a letter or by hand or by typewriter you give it to somebody who has a
printing machine and they make a more good version of it like I don't even know what I don't even
know what he was talking about desktop publishing was like a he brought desktop publishing into the
home I'm like I'm like what are you talking about yes well I think that term you know there's
publishing and then there's that's where you send your manuscript off to a publisher to set
it up and type and print it and bind it but if you have a home computer you can desktop publish
and you can make your own documents and you can print them and you can you know figure out a way
to get them bound and all the peripheral um you know companies and businesses that that support
that so you don't need to go to a publisher doesn't need to be you know for For Better
or Worse it doesn't need to be viewed by any body else before you put it out there to the
public I remember you were impressed with M you like made a birthday card from just a piece
of paper oh my like folded and then folded again yeah so so two sides were flapping open but it it
did have a book fold and it just a happy birthday outside and and it would print on the front of
one you know fourth and the the other side of a another fourth oh yeah that was that was wonderful
that was probably print yeah you were like Blown Away quick quick picks or something like oh man
yeah the home computer absolutely revolutionized everybody's life because where I used to have a f
file folder of uh handdrawn Maps you know which I enjoy doing if you want to come to my house for a
party and I'll draw a map I would you know that yo yeah uh but now all you have to do is send them a
link to Google Maps and you know Bob's your uncle wow um oh oh my God yes so this so he so yeah this
is one jobs got this dead wrong he thought that Pixar could make a some kind of computer that yeah
this be in every home everybody's making some kind of 3D shape polygon little designs it's going to
be super useful and uh yeah that that didn't that wasn't right so then jobs he shifted to their
rendering software no this will be good we can license this out sell it and people will like it
and uh that what called like render man and that's actually still updated and still made uh today the
book says it's like 5% of their revenue and it's just a it's just a I guess a powerful program
that yeah rendering is like render I think is like the word like develop for for film you you
have the film and then you can kind of develop it takes time it has certain conditions and you
have to kind of let leave it alone and it'll make a final like print um that is the final thing so
for example when you are we are both recording now as raw audio information but when you finally
convert it into an MP3 or a format that a uh a player can interpret into sound for a headphone or
a speaker that's called rendering um and so yeah if you had if you were recording like a a band
with like drums and singing all these different things you might have to listen to it in a lower
Fidelity version so that your computer can process all these things happening at the same time right
or or you buy a s or or but nowadays computers can handle it you um let's say like yeah you're making
a a movie like a video with with multiple scene changes as you watch it in your editing program
it's going to be a lower Fidelity a a more a lower quality version just so you can see how things
change but when you when you render it it's going to be the full uh High Fidelity version which if
you tried to do that in a computer it would freak out and like crash okay and seamless right I mean
it would be more it would be it it seems to me like if you're talking music don't you have to mix
don't you have to have a mixer to bring the drums and the guitar and the piano Al together isn't it
sort of that's was my impression of rendering I don't you know yeah yeah that's right you you you
you play as you you play it back for yourself you have multiple different tracks or something yeah
tracks playing it at the same time but in the old days like when I was in college on my little
iBook or whatever I try to play five different things and it would just it would freeze because
it was too taxing on the um computer so I think yeah there was options where you could lower the
quality down and I but I didn't know what it was there's buffering which creates more like give
me some breathing room here as you do stuff but then the the rendering is like the final print
in High Fidelity that can be uh interpreted by some kind of player and the rendering the in my
interpretation and I I could definitely be wrong here was the process of bringing it all together
so that it would match up in this High Fidelity form well you could you could line stuff up
in the editing program in real time but the rendering is like the the printing of it like
this is it okay okay this is where you take 20 tracks and it becomes a TW track stereo thing and
it's and it's done oh okay so melding and yeah all kinds of different words that don't quite fit the
bill but get close to what's going on so I bet in Pixar as they're working with computers at the
time and they're dealing with like hair blowing in the wind or like smoke they might be looking at
like uh a solid white cloud you know adjusting and shifting in the air but because maybe they they
or maybe like they say Okay remove the character I just want to see the cloud or something moving
because maybe that lets their computer work faster as they're trying to animate um and then they and
then they render the character the cloud together for like 3 seconds and that takes whatever 5 hours
and they look at it and they go oh yes that's looking good okay yeah that's sort of I wonder
that's kind of like what I think I might imagine it to possibly be yeah it's magic let's face it
it's magic yeah cuz I don't think when he talks about yeah this the movie took like uh a month
to render I don't think he's saying that everyone finishes their work and they hit hit render and
it just makes a hour and a half movie and then they finally watch it I think that as they animate
they render you know samples and segments and go like is that right um kind of like a photographer
might take pictures and then develop it and like oh this is not and they got change it as they go
okay but I don't even know yeah I don't think any none of us here outside this book know in but
nevertheless Steve Jobs poured a lot of money into Pixar um and you know John Lasser is quoted
of saying yeah we spent a lot of Steve's money we spent a lot of Steve's money and he even got l of
credit just cuz he's Steve Jobs like even lenders were like yeah we'll give you that and he just
dumped it into the unprofitable Pixar so um yeah so let's cut now to Toy Story they finally get a
deal to make to make their own uh movie mhm and uh you know starts off being like a tin soldier and
and he does kind of brush over the how difficult it is to have characters and arcs and everything
work together oh I don't think he does I think he I think he gives a lot of time to that because um
in that chapter that's about Toy Story and John Lasser is involved because he's you know he's the
he's the art guy he's the story guy you can have all the tech in the world which they did and they
made something for this sure guy many years ago but didn't but it was garbage why because there
was no story and so um my reading about Toy Story is Disney put all the finances in they sort of
because they were the you know they were the big guns there and uh the people at Pixar needed
to learn as they went how important it was to demonstrate the characters and have the charact
and have the story uh written uh acceptably and properly so Lasser really learned as he went um
with Toy Story and originally for example Woody was not sympathetic at all they brought in writers
from Disney they stopped product Disney stopped production then gave them the okay to start again
Jos Weeden came in and contributed as well so they really had to work on the story and uh make sure
that um you know that the Story made sense and the characters were sympathetic and believable so you
saw you know I I my notes here about Toy Stories there say it went through several iterations they
went to a seminar about Aristotle's Poetics in order to learn how to make a proper story uh
Disney brought in new writers Jos Weeden and in 1993 they shut down production so and that
started in 1991 um and then more fighter Stanton and uh 1994 they were able to start up again they
learned as they went and they also followed the uh guidelines of the the nine old men from Disney how
to make an animated character appear realistic so that they had to have like had to have a picture
of the character thinking and then acting which was a you know we don't even think about that but
it makes it more realistic facial expressions how far eyes should go to the left or to the right you
know that kind of stuff those little details in the story element and the technology had to learn
how to produce that that you know they really learned as they went and it's a masterpiece Story
Toy Story I watched it again it's wonderful yeah I was um I thought you know what so Al oppositely
when he explains the software and he's like yeah I can only tell you what it is you have to find
it out but when he got to the story writing part I thought okay this you can kind of dig into
more like he said yeah Woody's not likable or uh whatever he went to yeah a conference and learned
about writing he looked at this other example but I thought like you know can you tell me more
what what is it like you this is your chance to dig into something like you can by language
you can tell me what is it about storytelling and um I had a teacher one time who told me that
yeah Pixar's one of the simple secrets that they do you have one you have a character who has four
squares and three of them are good things and uh one is like he's a hard worker good leader and
good like Father whatever it could be anything and you got one square that's something bad and
and that je that bad thing will just consume all the other ones and then that's your story when
that thing comes along so the bad thing is uh he Lo it could be anything he loves like hot dogs and
so then you have oh you know he's living a normal life and then some kind of hot dog contest happens
and it just destroys every or ruins everything yeah and he said that's the Pixar style uh three
things good and also sincerity and they're very uh they're very um the through line of what's
important to the characters you know everything is The Toy Story everything is for what's the kid's
name Andy Andy everything is for Andy you know we have to do everything for Andy and everything
is for Andy that through line is very clear and so that that essence of loyalty is very much the
undercurrent of the whole story and so what ruins loyalty jealousy he likes somebody better yeah
or he's yeah threatened by yeah um so yep they hit a home run and uh yeah it's mind-blowing um
you know they I don't even remember really but they they close a deal with Disney to distribute
the movie and that's all the access of toys and in the you know everything into the hearts and
minds of kids and families and they signed for like five movies um so they made it that was the
original that was the original contract and so two things stood out at this juncture here so um
uh the author makes a point of saying that Disney really missed the toy tie-in with Toy Story and
they really dropped the ball on it and didn't uh pursue buzzly ear and Woody toys and you know all
the kinds of stuff that go around with that they just dropped the ball on it and the other thing is
that um I guess Steve Jobs saw Disney launch um a movie just before Pixar's movie came out maybe
it was Pocahontas or something and they rented like some air huge area in Central Park New York
and you know huge Fanfare and he said he said he apparently recognized that if Disney puts their
full force behind Toy Story this thing is going to take off like crazy and that's when he decided
to make make Pixar go public even though he was a vis against it and you know everybody said don't
worry he's not going to do it it's not going to go public because they have debt da but he did it
anyway and he was right yeah yeah yeah yeah that was uh yeah that yeah I got that part too that
that was Unthinkable for a unprofitable company to go IPO like are you out of your mind but he
knew that schedule it for after the movie comes out and also luckily another company Net Netscape
one of the first uh web browsers uh which which was significant because it used to be you had AOL
or Prodigy and that was your internet you just had to only see whatever AOL gave you but if you
had a browser you could type in the www. whatever website and you could go and um I guess you could
do it before but Netscape was the first one it's like oh this is like actually like usable or I
guess intuitive and so they were not profitable and they had IPO so Steve Jobs like oh we can do
we can do it too or that that like opened the eyes of the Wall Street Bankers yeah and it went crazy
just crazy so then because he because the company got so much money from that now he has leverage
over Disney and so he re he can renegotiate the contract with Disney and bring bring bring Pixar
up to a much more um even setting and uh even uh stature I guess you want to say and so he did oh
that's right yeah you're right part that that's part of the next deal is five movies 5050 split
uh but I think Disney Gets ownership of the uh characters and whatever yeah I think so too yeah
which is a and anything any sequels to Toy Story they have to do it's not part of their contract
or something but it doesn't matter because these guys you know they're kind of interested in
money this came through so clearly to me but really they weren't terribly interested in money
they really just wanted to do what they wanted to do and that was make movies and so they did
yep and uh yeah then then now this kind of this is I think the second half of the book where now
we're done talking about software and stylings and methods methodology now it's like the Intrigue of
corporate competition and like Global markets uh all controlled in the minds of a few like dudes
right that was astonishing that's right and the what was going on at Disney oh my gosh all the
all the Intrigue going on there with Eisner and uh what the other guy corn what's his name I
forget but Roy and Roy Disney all this all these minations going on yeah it is crazy it is
it is kind of I don't know Roman it's a it's all it's ancient politics and even these things these
corporate structures have you know bylaws which I guess is I I don't know I heard someone
explained it is like like it's our own laws right like it's how how our laws are how we're
going to operate yeah yeah it was separate from sure the nation we're in we are like we're we're
like our own nation and this is how uh you need you cannot sell your ownership unless we all
approve or 60% approve or um you cannot you can only pass whatever to your children I don't
know it's all these different laws so so then they have a new outright rival which is uh DreamWorks
which is spiel Spielberg brief briefly you know introduced as like the Pixar's enemy through
DreamWork but mainly this guy kenberg who was left Disney under hostile yeah because of Eisner
yeah and a and a big and a pretty good betrayal going on there as well you know the only reason
that Steve Jobs doesn't stink so bad is that he was successful and Eisner I mean they both I mean
when when Steve Jobs reorganized Pixar and gave himself and catmull and Lasser the Lion Share of
all the um stock in it you know that was pretty pretty awful in my view from what I read in the
book um and the Betrayal that went on in Disney while this what's his name kenberg kenberg you
know there there was a big stink about Eisner and and he left with a big stink on him because
he wasn't successful he was ousted and uh you know Steve Jobs was successful so that's I think they
were equally bad as far as you know Cutthroat yeah there corporate a guy dieded died tragically in
like a helicopter accident called Wells and he's like the the Julius Caesar and then the Empire is
now split between uh Eisner and then kenberg who are the whatever the Octavian and the Mark Anthony
or something and then kenberg leaves starts his own Empire with with Spielberg and a Gein which
I don't even I don't know what that is about they're going to well we're going to do it too
and they make they they make Shrek which is like which is my favorite uh computer movie like but
they first made ants oh yeah right when Bug's Life came off and this big camaraderie between
all these Geeks they used to go to these um conventions and stuff like that so that's when all
the projects when they came out with ants at the same time that bugs life that's when then Pixar
decided to be secret about about their projects they don't share anything anymore I've never seen
ants um but no I haven't either I heard it's like more like adult yeah it's Woody Allen yeah a huge
ensemble cast is in there but it's just a total ripoff and the politicking of um oh no another
movie DreamWorks is uh Prince of Egypt which is a good musical movie which I do remember had some
oh they got some computer stuff in there too like um yeah oh Disney's got the Magic Carpet and this
has got some stuff and they were like we're going to put out A Bug's Life on the day of Prince of
Egypt and a phone call is made saying if you don't do that we will cancel ants entirely which is like
if you remove your army from the from Spain I we will grant you freaking Africa or something and uh
so yeah total rival and then of yeah so they Shrek is good I think they make Kung Fu Panda eventually
that's not that's not in the book but DreamWork is a Powerhouse too because animation thanks to
Pixar because animation became hot again you know it was it wasn't uh nobody was interested nobody
was doing it but Pixar did it great and so then everybody else well let's get in on this we can do
our own thing right so then we get you know oh Toy Story 2 this is where the first wrinkle happens
between Eisner and jobs saying it's a five movie deal but a sequel by definition is is a sequel
not a movie so they're like what what are you talking about but they concede they say okay fine
which is yeah we could argue this out in court but that's just this dude's position saying you have
to that's so so yeah Beyond contract like yeah but come on well at the terms of contract said
you know that you have to make you have to make five movies with us not counting sequels to the
original yeah I think I don't know did literally say that I think it must have why else would they
do it I think that it was one of those corporate things where jobs is like you really going to
do this you're of course wrong and well a movie means original characters with franchisable and
marketable you know toys and whatever that's what a movie means to us and and like I think that job
said like fine but I will not renew with you like uh yeah I think it was one of those things where
it's just it's too cost you're really going to argue this and he had he just gave up he said
okay fine okay um so but Toy Story 2 was like an even better movie than the first one so
that's a hit everyone so everyone and yeah everyone's happy because it was another miracle
home run uh then they do uh monster Inc and the chapter starts with a lawsuit where someone wrote
a kids book and musical that's just very similar well she thought it was very similar but the judge
ruled against her yeah judge said you know come on that's exactly what he said his ruling was yeah
well come on also at this time yeah the company moves to em Emoryville at a Del Monte Canary site
which I can't I can't imagine just free acreage in Emoryville in 2002 like who oh yeah was so yeah
it'd be like now like oh we're gonna buy land in in in you know Berkeley 10 acres San Jose yeah
how where is there still anything available but it's yep it's right there another lawsuit another
artist Sue saying his characters look look like Sully and Mike wasowski very similarly and they
both work in a monster city and so this was again another one of those things where there is zero
evidence that any of this material was given to us we don't we deny it's just total coincidence
and they go with the argument you regardless of if it's copied or whatever you didn't copyright it so
you're screwed anyway so it it's like that's a a a Le maneuver saying you would you will lose anyway
cuz you didn't copyright it so it's it's fair free use or you have no claim to it anyway not that
we admit that we did take it but I think they did settle with him yeah they and they settled so
yeah it was like totally they weakened look you're not you don't have a you don't have a open and
shut case anyway cuz you have you yourself don't have rights to it to your own work to your own
work that's I don't admit any wrong but I'm going to pay you a million dollars but I don't admit
any wrong yeah and and so they settle because they know that dragging it out would tarnish the
name so yeah that's all total corporate Intrigue and strategizing and maneuvering and positioning
which is which is just yeah crazy um but um I like it well anyway they keep plugging along they
make hit after hit like you know six hits in a row all these wonderful uh animated movies
and then eventually Eisner gets ousted by Iger at Disney and Iger buys Pixar and so everybody's
happy so this is the perfect blend you know where they they didn't they didn't mesh well with
Shore they didn't mesh well with George Lucas they didn't exactly mesh well with jobs but now
they're where they should be Disney they should be there and they maintain their independence I
think to a great extent because you know they are a Pixar movie is a Pixar movie it's got the Pixar
touch and uh they're just enormously successful and all the additional movies that they've made
just fantastic yeah that's another uh like you said before they have leverage uh theyve got tons
of cash they've got the hearts and Minds like um the Disney executive Iger realizes that like 10
of his characters are in a parade are all pixars right right right yeah oh yeah this is so full of
um just like Intrigue now I was like okay now this is getting better where um the reason why jobs
hated Eisner was that he went to go speak about piracy at Congress and said how like yeah you got
these people look I saw an ad the other day that said rip mix burn and and he this dinosaur just
thought that rip meant rip steal or rip off but rip actually means to take from a CD and convert
it import it into your hard drive so it meant it meant take your CDs make your own mix CD and then
make and then print it and and burn your own CD so that was a direct call publicly that Apple uh and
that was an Apple ad was Pro piracy and he said I will I will not work with him I will I will not
have a with him um so that was pretty significant yeah Eisner Eisner comes out of this book with
huge stink on him because in one of the the opening chapter I don't like the opening chapter
because it's kind of a you know here we are in 1986 or something and then he goes into detail you
know it gives us an overview it's all right but I was just I was a little bit um disconcerted by
that but the opening the opening chapter he talks about how Eisner when he was um chairman of Disney
or president or whatever his title was would hold the would hold this the uh shareholders meetings
in places with inclement weather to discourage attendance like they'd have meetings Disney
shareholder meetings in Minnesota in February so people wouldn't come so he was a manipulator and
he was a kind of a bully was trying to bully um Pixar and Bully try to bully jobs you know it just
comes down to that yeah it's totally it's totally just War um that's why these people read these
like you know like um yeah they study the freaking Roman Empire and Generals and all that stuff um so
and yeah even he ousted um Roy Disney I guess this I think he's the brother of Walt but I guess he's
the son uh no I think he's like the nephew I think he's I think his uh Walt Disney's brother's son
eventually one passage says like uh Roy flew in from his Irish castle for a board meeting and then
was revealed that the bylaws state after 72 you must retire you're just too old yeah and he tried
to Rally support uh rally the s to his side saying no no it's him that has to go and uh that didn't
work so he wrote the he wrote his resignation letter to both Eisner and the news the newspaper
saying I protest this Disney is now all about just quick throw up um parks and push out sequels and
uh just it's not we've lost our way and and yeah well the name the name you know that's I mean God
that's all he needs is the name the Disney name yeah so that's all that was now I like I like this
stuff and so then I was as I was thinking about that old software stuff maybe I don't like that
so it's on me to find it out so yeah I like the second half better um well you're interest well
no it's because you're I think it's because you're interested in people not technology and that's
that's okay that's an all right thing to be well I like that um I like efficiency or optimizing how
like yeah people had to like that caps program you have to squeeze these Planes together so it looks
natural and just shoot a picture of it but like yeah a computer can do that um you just take out
the human effort and human never mind human error just the human having to do it um actually I think
if you if you knew what it was like before and you see the process of making it what it is and the
result of what it is now now yeah you'd appreciate that more and you are kind of ticky that way
so if you if you look into that yeah you'll have a better understanding I'm not particularly
interested I like the end result but I don't care how they got there well I saw I'm over here in
Japan and I was at the you know Civic office and I'm waiting for some stupid thing and I see behind
the counter I see a woman working at a desk she's looking at a computer screen and and writing down
writing from the computer screen uhuh not like a a memo but like a fullon document filling out lines
spaces where information belongs from a computer and I'm like I'm like Mother of God this is like
yeah 100% employment this is like training a horse to like walk backwards like why would we ever do
that today for 100% employment for 100% employment that's why so um you an investor call Steve Jobs
takes a swing at Eisner saying look I mean we're we're glad to be done with Disney they've had
minimal creative assist help I mean look at their movies he just drops the bomb on there and I mean
look at their sequels Cinderella 2 what and yeah he just totally just you know destroys him and um
so yeah in the end Iger he's yeah so now the reign of Iger which is yeah like seems very cesarian
the next uh then a golden age dawned and and it did because recently he uh retired and put his guy
in place in Disney but it didn't work out so he's back at Disney oh really Iger yeah really yeah I
there so many things on YouTube about what is CEOs even do I mean what do they make it's like you
just can't even comprehend how much uh people just you just can't even sleep you have like thousands
of jobs you're like oh my God it's just like I tell you what to do buddy yeah so then ends with
cars which I did not like at all I thought it was really stupid I didn't either but that's lasser's
baby you know that he he got to do what he wanted to do so that's why you know yes he earned lots of
money he got lots of money l or did and we didn't mention him very much but he was the creativity
um um bit in this in this triumphant um but he's always been interested in cars and this was his
baby project but you know it was a vanity project so you know it wasn't appealing to everybody yeah
it might have been although number one for me it is just what's his name's voice Owen Wilson is
like one of the most annoying uh actors oh is he got this do I have to do oh so stupid I just hate
him from that era 2002 to 2007 he was just in like everything yeah he was present a lot um oh then
finally the sale the purchase the acquisition of Pixar was for $7.4 billion in Disney stock uh
to Pixar and so jobs owns you know 49% of Pixar stock of and so now he's got all kinds of Disney
stock so does that mean yeah he just pocketed uh $3.2 billion worth of Disney stock went directly
to Jobs's account um and the win was okay we we buy Pixar but now you Pixar bosses you control
both our Burbank animation and your own animation so we buy you but you get our us you get our stuff
yeah you get us you get us our association you bet and Lasser not only in charge of the animation but
he's also in charge of creativity at the parks oh is that right I I read that a couple times like
is that what they is that what they're saying um that's what it sounded like yeah yeah as a that
was kind of interesting yeah and it said this sentence was significance uh Pixar would equal 10%
of the entire like Disney Empire which includes TV networks the theme parks the you know all
the real estate and like all past assets and stuff is 10 like 10% is Pixar which in whatever
2006 I think Pixar was they started making movies like for 10 years 10 years ago they they now
contribute 10% of the whole in total value yeah pretty amazing aund year of company or from
1920 MH because Disney The Parks the movies the toys the cruises the the uh you know what else
the clothing you know all the stuff that they sell in their stores and everything yeah it's
pretty amazing and they own like ABC and they I don't know if they own Marvel now but that
was probably later after Pixar but do they own National Geographic CU National Geographic is on
the Disney Channel too yeah they own Marvel they bought Marvel Mar for 4 billion and Star Wars
and they also own Star Wars franchise right I think so yeah because they do yeah they're doing
all that Mandalorian and everything but so that shows that even Stan Lee and the comic makers
since 19 whatever 40 making characters making stories Pixar was worth like twice as much for
the seven movies they had made since they started TW they were worth twice as much as all the
Marvel content and storylines that they could get well I wonder yeah that's interesting maybe
because you know they're not violent number one so they have a broader audience because even
though they're sort of geared toward children they do have an adult uh component or adults are
attracted to it I like it I like watching them um and it's the and the quality the coity
is so good of of which one Marvel of Pixar yeah yeah yeah well yeah it's all timing too
they were pixars at the height of we could do it ourselves we could do it with you we can be your
rival we can whatever we can do anything Marvel has been around there's been cartoons there's
been movie attempts different Studios it's all sprawling uh it's kind of a it's just so it's a
tired uh brand but uh and it's been you know hit and miss Miss Sometimes some wins some losses
yeah yep and I I'm I'm yeah oh go ahead well that's it I saying that's that's it yeah that
is it I was sorry that it ended at the sale of uh the sale of Pixar to uh to Disney because it
kind of ended too early because they're still creating and they're still making great uh movies
yeah I haven't uh watched any of them um like I've not watched whatever you know what's funny
in my I used to sing in Oakland in this this choir and one of the singers was a was a producer for
Pixar and she was she made the Scottish one called Brave about a uhhuh girl who shoots a bow and
arrow um but I I can't remember On's Pixar after like Incredibles Incredibles I was where I was
like okay I don't like this because it's to copy of the Marvel Fantastic 4 characters yeah yeah
so that's when I I didn't care for the incredibl I didn't care for them too much either but they
certainly the the person that was um you know at the Forefront of that was this Brad Bird and boy
they just think he's a real game changer they like him oh yeah oh they talk about that too yeah he
made that Iron Giant which Andrew likes a lot that was good I like that I don't know if I saw it they
well he called it a masterpiece I think so yeah it was great I remember seeing it just because it was
out of nowhere and you know do you remember I used bought you guys that video of The Brave Little
Toaster was on VHS video I love that little story I I was I was mystified why this is good I thought
but Lasser was involved with that that's what he got fired over my favorite part of that movie was
where the toaster jumps into the into the grind gears just like kamakazi himself high drama that's
and he yeah and he withstands the gloer gloer yeah that was just really good drama when I was a
kid there were parts of that movie that were too quiet I was like this is uncomfortably quiet
where they're in a cabin or that weird fat guy is outside and it's like I like this is needs more
kind of comforting music or activity something huh I don't you know and I really don't remember it
I just know I I really liked it I do remember that I really liked it I'll have to look for it
on the Disney Channel yep so my take away from this you know what and this is what um he says in
the first chapter is that Pixar story is a triple helix he calls it a triple helix of artistic
technological and business struggles and so artistic is lacier he's the main artistic driving
force the technological was this catull who was you know at you know at the at the edge of this
at the just the beginning of this um technological development and the business struggles was jobs
you know I mean he was the moneyman he had the vision and he had the the coones to you know
negotiate with Disney and uh that that triple helix that triumvirate you know it's good that
they came together um somehow and the other second message that um the author comes away with is the
professional Prestige plus social status flow into each other and of course we all know this is true
because if you are the best you attract the best and so um you know that's that's absolutely true
but the the third item the third measure that I found in this story is their persever an and uh
in spite of the fact that they had to earn money to support their families and they didn't give up
uh they wanted to make animated Mo featurelength animated movies and they did and they findi they
found a way even though they had struggles and even though they had to find a patron or their
they were at one point it said he was an animated animation company pretending to be a computer
company you got to pay the bills um but they did what they did and they did it to Perfection you
never saw oh you never saw up oh yeah I saw that one I didn't really like it uh stopped liing
I loved it uh I just uh I don't know why I I I don't like it uh seemed too kind of ridiculous
um but I don't know yeah I don't know yep well no more ridiculous than the toys crossing the street
to get to the Toy Barn you know in Toy Story 2 I don't know why I was like I remember like when I
watched that I this this is impossible forgetting the fact that they are in fact toys I liked how
it was the early ones had the had a had a element of like accidental or confusion like I liked when
the bugs didn't realize they're supposed to fight they thought they're going to perform and the
Ants thought oh you're going to save us and they both they both like misunderstand and then
Buzz doesn't know what's going on and then an uh the Woody accidentally kicks him out the window
they all turn on him by by misunderstanding um but I didn't like the I I guess say and the monster
rink they just all misunderstand that the kids are toxic and can like kill you um um but the other
ones where it's like a normal Incredibles like oh I hate my life I'm living a lie let's fix this I
was like hey yeah I know what this is and then up was like I'm an old man and I'm going to go on
an adventure I'm like okay go go ahead I don't know and yeah Finding Nemo I also didn't like
I'm like this is yep I I interesting because I didn't like Finding Nemo either but uh um I liked
Finding Dory a little bit better but Finding Nemo I I wasn't crazy about either but that's the one
that broke the broke the record held by Lion King uh for p Pixar's breaking the record for uh box
office yeah all the other ones after monstering seem like straight ahead yep oh even Wall-E had
misunderstanding W I love W it's like what he has to do this thing and uh he doesn't even know why
he doesn't even know that humans are gone and then the other robot comes down they're like oh what
what are you hello and like yeah it's all based on unfolding misunderstanding I thought it was their
signature um okay there's also always in these Pixar movies an earnestness right um a sincerity
and an earnestness that um comes through in uh Wall-E and in uh up with the Boy Scout and
and in uh all the toy stories with Andy comes first and uh the monsters wanting to do a good
job you know there's always a sincerity factor and an earnestness in them and that's I think
a universal appeal yeah and I didn't like the later Toy Story Toy Story three Toy Story four
aren't there four I didn't like I don't know I think I think there are four yeah I think
two it I'm remembering why I kind of stopped all those one well that'll do it yeah I don't
think I ever well I guess I did watch three and four but um yeah two is the best it looks
like also that your favorite zootopia is also lasser's he was executive producers so on his
on this Wiki it's that's the only one that's not Pixar that has his name on it it's not Pixar it's
that one's Disney oh okay yeah zootopia is a good is another good one um and he is he is the sort of
this creative force and he learned as he went well what's interest I also was interested in the book
it said how Cal Arts was kind of a Disney project sort of like a feeder school for uh for Disney and
um I'm not sure if he went there but uh I didn't know that about Cal Arts yeah I remember that um
yeah I remember that zootopia too was based on I was ready to not like that either but it was also
had a confusing thing where they thought animals were vicious or something or something about that
but mhm it's very political yeah it was super yeah I was like what am I supposed to take away from it
um but it had the funny funniest scene in all of uh Disney World with that sloth at the uh DMV oh
yeah yeah well I thought this I think this maybe maybe it needs a second read or something so I
might have to get back into Pixar and just maybe read this one again someday but uh yep what is
the next one well I think um we have talked about this and I think I'm going to recommend a tale for
the time being by Ruth ozeki uh Margie recommended this to all of us um she doesn't know much about
Japanese culture and so this was uh interesting for her it's a little bit big um type is a little
bit small but what do you say to this yep okay yep and you can Wrangle her to make a guest spot
or yeah so you'll have to tell us how to do that and then we can accomplish that I delegate that
to you as it's your well I don't know how you'll have to tell me then I don't know how to tell
her to do it can she join this just like I did yep yeah you are the you're the podcasting expert
so it's now to take your next disciple under your wing oh my God you're going to delegate okay all
right well that's it so we'll see you next time my