CHIMP CRAZY - WHO'S IN THE WRONG

stars in the spotlight secrets in the night headlines take fight with the keepers of the light the talk of a shame we know the name things the game join the flame [Music] hi everyone welcome to the talk of Shame where we discuss all things pop culture entertainment celebrity we do deep Dives we spill some hot tea and of course we Kiki just about any and everything that is trending so make sure you are following me here click that subscribe button if you haven't already and that way you'll be able to interact and chat with me throughout this live um look we have to talk about Chim crazy I haven't sto thinking about it since the finale which was on Sunday night on Max even though I like to call it HBO still HBO Max on Max um because we need to talk about Tanya I mean let me just say first off that I mean does this does this picture not belong in the Lou I mean the ending of the finale with the Tanya in a bikini holding the don't tread on me flag I mean it's Rich um but really I want to talk about because since the finale has aired obviously there's been a lot of interviews um Eric good the director you know he did Tiger King now he you know he's the one who did Chim crazy he has um done some interviews and Tanya has done some interviews as well and look let me start by saying that like I do not for a second believe that Tanya is innocent in this and when I say you know who's wrong she's absolutely done a lot of wrong things and she is part of what is wrong but I feel like there were also other people um that were wrong in this situation and I also like I do not believe in the Exotic brokering Animal trade business I think it's highly unregulated and I think it's unnecessary there's no reason that animals should be in captivity um humans should be owning them they should be allowed to be free I don't even like going to zoos to be honest um but I do think because there has been no regulation up into this point there are some animals that have been you know raised by humans and they have been in captivity we can't just release them and we know that they there's you know uh safe conserves and places where they can go but you know I think that we need to tackle the problem in many ways and I just felt like after watching that finale I do feel like a lot of this was put on T yet and there were it just felt like there were other people you know that were to blame you know let me start by saying you know when it comes to like you know Jared Goodman who was the lawyer for PETA Britney p who I think was also a lawyer she works for PETA and Alan Alan is the most innocent in this uh in innocent in this whole thing he was the only one who I felt like was going you know towards this with the right reason it wasn't self-serving you know he worked with ton of the Chimp on this movie buddy I think back in the 90s and he legitimately thought that Tonka had retired was living on some nice Sanctuary um this entire time until Peta got involved and that is when he learned no Tonka was living in captivity and you know what looked like deplorable conditions and so of course then he became an activist you know he you know there was a reward um towards finding Tonka when Tanya you know claimed he had died and you know Peter was like we don't believe he's dead um so Allan is the innocent one he was really wanting to go at this for all the right reasons and look even when it comes to Jared and Britney at the end of the day they were just doing their job right they worked for PETA and they were just doing their job I mean were they annoying yeah like they weren't like they didn't look great um on camera they looked like you know they were going after this woman who really didn't have any money and they had sort of all the resources and backing behind them but in this situation I feel like these three people again Peta the two lawyers for PETA were doing their job Allan was you know legitimately wanting to make sure Tonka who he loved he admitted he fell in love with this chimp um and just wanted to make sure he was doing good I think it's when it comes down to the director Eric good and Dwayne Cunningham so you know again and I love this this is the shot um of Eric right after uh Dwayne had called Tanya to basically apologize for being a narc he was the one that snitched her out and for some reason Tanya decides to say you know have you looked into Eric good do you even know anything about him you know his mom was basically a prostitute in trash and this was Eric's look after she said that he's like what I mean of course I immediately Googled afterwards and I I'm pretty sure his mom was a conservationist that's the only thing she's unfortunately looks like she's passed away I found an obituary um I can show you that but um there's no I don't know where Tanya got that he his mom was a prostitute that is not at all what is online said she was a conservationist um but I do think that um you know the two of them sort of played a part in sort of not being the good guys you know look I I think Dwayne Dwayne I feel the the worst for because essentially Eric knew that nobody in the animal exotic animal world was going to speak to him after Tiger King came out and you know what happened with uh Joe Exotic and all of that so Eric knew that you know when he was going into this chimpanzee world he would have to find someone else to make friendships with these people and Dwayne Cunningham was perfect because you know he was from that world he had gone to risen you know over exotic animals and so he was uh basically a great undercover agent so Eric good makes him a proxy director on this film and Dwayne befriends Tanya and that's where to me it's murky because you know even Eric talked to another journalist I can't remember his name but in the film talks to another journalist you know about you know what is ethical um and I do feel like you know as a documentarian Eric did cross the line by not being upfront about what he was doing now is it a means to an end because if you believe something bad is happen happening and you want and you know the only way to you know get to the truth of it is by being deceitful I mean there's definitely an argument to be made for that um but I do feel like Dwayne I don't know just feel like you know you always see this in movies right anytime you watch movies where they have undercover agents right and they and even like think about Point Brank you know Bodie you know keano Reeves and Patrick suy you know keano comes into it really like I want to bust the bad guys but then he ends up realizing how cool they are and he wants to Just Surf and like live the life and he's like these aren't bad guys and they're just trying to steal some money so they can just like live this really good life and like now I don't really want to arrest them I feel like that how where Dwayne ended up because it's like he went into it because he loves animals and he wants to make sure animals aren't being mistreated but then he gets in there and realizes wal Tanya is hooky he realizes she really does love these animals she just doesn't have the resources or ability to actually maintain exotic animals which is why she shouldn't be um you know I thought there was you know there was an interesting article I'll pull it up on um vulture did an interesting article and rolling stone also did you know a follow-up interview with Tanya which we'll talk about but in the um article let me find it if I can uh yeah it's a vulture article um not sure if you can really see it but it's called the double dishonesty of chimp crazy it's by Jen Cheney at vulture um and she sort of kind of you know relays sort of some of the same thing so like you know good ass in the film do we turn her in um he asked oh Peter laugher is the reporter documentarian that you know he was asking these questions he's like or do we continue to follow the story and laer says as journalists we don't want to do something that's morally ethically wrong you have to hope that the end result is more positive than negative is there a greater good and basically what Jen talks about is like you know they're going after Tanya for being this liar in the um you know throughout this entire situation in order to get what she wants she wants to save Tonka and basically her point is kind of like in doing that he's doing exactly what he's saying Tanya's doing like he's you know good is lying basically to Tanya in order to uh get what he what he wants and she says you know it's Good's job as a filmmaker to show viewers the full picture of pcts and the ways in which the relationship with Tonka primarily fun functions as selfishness dressed up in selfless clothing um while Goods treatment of hadock is not as blank BL blatantly harmful as her treatment of Tonka he doesn't seem to consider that he's rationalized his behaviors in ways that aren't all that different he does not seem to see what other people see either so I thought that was a really interesting article um that vulture did and like you know that's where I I got uh was kind of at too because uh what made it okay for him you know to be deceitful and you know T not you know I will say that you know in the uh no in the uh followup uh article that Tanya did or in follow-up interview that Tanya did with rolling stone so you know we find out in episode four that there was a rolling stone journalist named Cheyenne um round tree and she started investigating this whole Tonka situation when Allan got involved because she's like what is Allan coming you know working with Peta what is this about and so she started investigating and she was the one who really discovered that it was Eric good behind this production and that was really how Tanya found out too and so she did this follow-up interview came out in Rolling Stone on September 8th it kind of does sound like Cheyenne also has some empathy towards Tanya as well um you know I want to share because you know when Tanya you know Tanya gets hit with a $225,000 invoice from PETA once Eric and his team turn over the recording to them you know he he basic they've snitched her out because on the recording that's where they reveal she reveals that Tonka has been in the basement this entire time he's not dead whatever that bag of um cremated remains which looks like again Duncan hindes cake mix like we don't even know what what's I would love to know I would love to do a test a DNA test or some sort of testing on those remains I'm so curious what those remains were that she was shown um but she perjures herself in front of the judge they turn over this information and then Peter goes after her US Marshals um show up at her door they remove Tonka um and you know but Cheyenne was the one that was like yeah do you know who else have you told about this and she's like you know just the document documentary filmmakers and she's like what documentary filmmakers and Cheyenne was able to find oh this person's connected to Eric good and yeah all the Tiger King and that was how she discovered it you know um so she gets hit with this $225,000 invoice from Peta um for their lawyers fees basically um and some people you know some people have said like you know that is sort of kind of how Peta makes a lot of their money is like they go after these organizations of these people and then they invoice them for these you know bills that they have to pay to go after them and so obviously Tanya is not going to have $225,000 to pay they then sent her an offer saying you know essentially we will remove these fees we'll take away this this invoice if you agree to give up your exotic license exotic animal brokering license which you know I don't disagree with however I will say I don't think it's still not illegal in Missouri to be you can still do it so it's kind of like she's doing it just to say okay turn it over but then they also add in like she basically can't deal with animals at all so you know the zoo that she currently has she wouldn't even be able to do that I feel like trying to strip her of her entire livelihood when this woman is probably in her 60s you know I don't know how old she is it just feels like kind of unfair because I just don't know you know what you kind of expect again do I want her dealing in the exotic animal world no but I would rather them spend their resources kind of going after you know there's still we learned at the end of the film there's still no federal regulations around exotic animals so like I want to know like why aren't we spending more resources towards that and then those little entities will go away once those restrictions are in place um so it just seemed a little bit unfair and then of course you have to question like why did T continue to do the film the documentary once she found out you know that the people around her were snitching and I also felt like you know Eric put her in the situation and I know he's gonna make a lot of money I mean this is the highest rated documentary that HBO has had I believe in four years I believe the last time they had something that's highly rated was the mcmillion series that they did about the Monopoly scam this is their highest rated documentary so Eric's going to do very well after this he's goingon to you know get I'm sure plenty of other projects after this and so I just felt like you know you put her in this situation maybe you should be helping her with these fees and I also wondered like you know why was Tanya you know sort of helping him now when I read this Rolling Stone article in the article Tanya talks about you know a she talks about how she's gotten you know obviously a lot of online hate which you know isn't surprising in you know she didn't really want any any of this um and she believed that she was participating in a small production advocating for the private ownership of exotic animals that's what she was led to believe you know when Dwayne the proxy director came into her life um she said you know one of the interviewer Cheyenne asked her when we spoke in 2022 you were pretty upset and stunned that Dwayne Cunningham you thought of as a friend was really working as a proxy director for Eric good who you swore you wanted nothing to do with why did you continue filming with Eric and Dwayne once you realize they lied to you and turned you into Peta she said they made a lot of promises to me like me getting to see my boy they promised I'd get a visit with him and they promised to offset some of the legal fees I have because they caused them but I didn't trust them after I spoke to you that day the US Marshals hit my house I knew for a fact they were out to get a huge explosive ending so it could be another Tiger King I decided I had two choices after they contacted me several months later and I was not so angry I had to beat them or join them they promised me that they would make it out to be a love story or it could be trash and I didn't want it to be trash I didn't have a choice I wanted it to be about Tonka and the reality of how much I gave up trying to save him that's one reason and the other they dangled a bunch of carrots that I at that point was desperate for she Cheyenne asked have they made good on those promises she says well well you haven't seen me get to see Tonka so I just thought that was also you know an interesting because it did seem like they made those promises to her um Logan said I think they did know I did I think they did that knowing she couldn't pay and always planned to offer her to settle by getting out of the business yeah I'm sure Peta knew that they were going to overcharge and that's I'm pretty sure that's probably the mo is like um give these big fines put them out of business you know I I don't know where oh you know what um I if you haven't seen there is uh Sarah Frasier did an interview with Tanya it came out yesterday it's on her YouTube channel so I watched that yesterday and I believe that was where I saw um that Tanya had heard they we were going after that guy remember I think his name is Doc an antler he was from the Tiger King he was also in Missouri which again I wouldn't mind going after a lot of these exotic animal Brokers because I do think a lot of them are not treating these animals well I mean one of the um can I just tell you how much I don't even know if I put them I don't even think I put them in there that couple Pam and her husband I couldn't stand them they were the ones Pam has been around for decades you know she was the one who's had chimp sleep at the White House and she does like this kind of traveling circus act it seems and she kept her chimp chant on a leash the entire time and when chance was in their home you know they would show him videos of chimps and he would go crazy chance did not look happy to me every time Pam and that chimp and the leash were on my screen I was aggravated and we find out at the end that that chance just at 14 years old just collapsed and died no other reason um I don't think the a lot of these chimps that are in captivity are in good shape now T had said um you know one of the wunning jokes obviously was how you know Tanya was only feeding Tonka Happy Meals and Power Aid Tanya said that the happy meals that we saw on screen she said that Eric good was the one that purchased the Happy Meals and she said it was it was the night before they were coming to seize all the chimps and that she said production essentially offered to go their last day very happy and bought all these Happy Meals she claims you know they didn't show her you know when she's feeding fresh fruits and vegetables um also you know that that theme you know where they show her um basically escaping with Tonka bringing him to the holiday in to hide him before the Marshalls came to seize all the rest of the chimps um even the they did Recreations apparently that a footage we saw that looked like security footage of her dragging a cage up the holiday in stairs she says that was Recreation it wasn't actual footage which um I I don't know I'm sure that makes of course that's going to happen in film Mak you're not going to be able to get all of the actual footage and so sometimes you have to recreate things for the drama um so that didn't surprise me um but yeah I mean even after listening to Tanya's interview with Sarah Frasier I just again I think that she did a lot of things wrong and she was very remorseful about perjuring herself lying to the judge she said like that's her one regret she said she absolutely regrets um lying to the judge but she also said she she acted like she kind of underestimated Peta she didn't think they would kind of go after her kind of as hard as they did because it did seem like you know they kind of got their way on certain things but even once they got their way they kind of continue to come after her because even now I believe um if I'm not mistaken let me pull up this um pull up this article it looks like Peta is still wanting to shut down her Zoo this article's from September 6 uh Tanya hadex operates Sunrise Beach safari near the Lake of Ozarks but Peta is pushing for hadex to be charged with perjury and obstruction of justice and for her license to be revoked after hadex was shown to be lying to the judge so um they're still yeah so they they're still wanting to come after her for the you know the perjury and again I'm sure they would say we won't charge you with perjury if you shut down your facility but not only does Tanya not want to shut down her facility she wants to buy an island um I don't know I don't know if I put in a oh I don't think I showed I don't think I put in a picture of the island but um you know after because and Trigger warning I'm about to show some pretty gruesome stuff but at the end of the um documentary like after all of this you can't think it gets any crazier first of all we heard two crazy things in this well we heard multiple crazy things in the finale episode but one of the craziest things I think that came out of the finale and which is I think what a lot of people are like some of these people need to like there's a mental illness there there's a sickness there because what is your need what is your obsession because we find out Sandy Harold so Sandy Harold is the woman who owned Travis the chimp Travis the chimp is the one who mold um Charla uh what is her name Sor Charla Nash is her name so Charlotte Nash was uh Sandy Harold's friend had her entire face ripped off we find out you know after all that she went through her friend being molded obviously she was like basically shunned by the community her entire life was destroyed um she was depressed you know because then her husband had passed away at some point you know she lost everyone in her life she was depressed she didn't know what to do and obviously Travis was dead we find out through Pam the woman who keeps the the Chimp on the leash uh Sandy starts visiting her chimps because she misses the chimp so much she's visiting their chimps and eventually she she finds out there's this chimp that needs to be rehomed and her and Pam she's like well do you want to go Partners on it end up purchasing this chimp for $33,000 the chimp can't live with Sandy obviously because she's been banned from having any you know animals so she's like sneaking to see the chimp the chimp is sneaking up there to I think she was in Connecticut to see her because they have pictures in her kitchen so the fact that this woman destroyed everyone's life around her basically and still had to buy a Shimp in the end before she died that's insane that's insane Behavior Sandy eventually passed away um of like an aortic aneurysm um Pam said it was a broken heart but just the fact up until the very end you know that she wanted to have chimps is a little mentally unstable and obviously people felt that way kind of towards the end of chimp crazy because again trigger warning I'm G to show some gruesome injuries when Tanya reveals at the end of the episode that she had gone to visit her friend and got in the cage with her friend's chimp comes out her finger has been bitten her ear she said it was a nibble her ear is bitten clean off most of it and even after those injuries she says she still wants to own shimps she said she wants to sell her zoo and buy this island and call it something like Tonka Island and live amongst The Chimps on this island again she makes for great reality TV she owes P to $225,000 I don't think she's buying an island but like again I do think that other people kind of put her in the situation and I do think they need to be kind of held responsible for some of it um because again it was legal for her because there are no regulations it was legal for her to have these chimps that's the that's that's the Crux of the problem it shouldn't have ever been legal for her to own these chimps but she did and sort of like going after her after the fact just seems um I don't know there was like some unfairness in there now in like some good news I will say you know people obviously want to know how T is doing because when you when you watch the documentary it's hard to tell he doesn't seem happy like you can't really tell the look on his face if he's happy if he's not you know again all he has known is human so I you know I imagine while the sanctuary looks gorgeous and it's like a dream place that you hope all chimps can live happy and free you also just like wonder if he's happy but you know LA times did do a followup on like tonka's life now um after chimp crazy and you know this was done by Amy Koffman of the LA Times and they basically say it's been over two years since Tonka arrived at Save The Chimps it's 1 acre parcel of protected land for 222 Apes born in captivity come to live out their retirement um and they basically say uh that he's adapted Tonka has adapted well to living with his own kind um when The Chimps first get there they may be drawn to humans first but given the opportunity to live among others like themselves they continuously prefer to end up being around other chimpanzees um they say when he arrived Tonka was put into quarantine for 60 days um and he had not shown much interest in getting involved in the rankings of the family group but he has developed deep friend friendships with two other trips Jake and Caleb and they found out that Caleb was actually tonka's biological son and so uh and they said they did try to set up you know a little kind of area a private area for him this is um a video of him running with Jacob at the sanctuary um they say that um they say he's doing well it said it didn't take much for Tonka to lose extra weight they put him on a diet of fruit and vegetables um he could live into his 60s um and that you know he wanted to be outside so they were just saying that they were saying that was kind of proof that Tanya was wrong because they're saying even though they kind of gave him an inside Space to to be in that he he went outside and he he wanted to be outside so um you know again I think that I don't you know I don't I don't necessarily agree with peta's tactics and I don't necessarily agree with you know how they go about a lot of things I think Peta like any organization started out with a really good mission right I think anytime you start uh with the mission is for good purposes I think I do believe that one money you know I think they have a lot of money behind them and a lot of uh donations and donors and sometimes when you get money behind you it sort of changes is your mission plan and so even you know you could be doing like a lot of good things um but you could also not be doing you know I know people you know I I'm not even gonna talk about it because people just talk about sort of like the adoption rates of pea and those sorts of things I haven't looked into it so I can't speak on it um but I do know that anytime an organization has a lot a lot of money um they can do a lot of good but you know it doesn't necessarily mean that they're the ultimate good guy and I kind of just wish Peta had sort of just been more willing to work with Tanya and again not about getting T giving Tonka back to her but more about like how do we create legislation so that other people don't end up in your situation and we can prevent this and also how do we take care of The Chimps that are already have been in captivity and make sure that they're happy as well um without kind of uprooting and destroying you know more people's lives I guess I would love to know also just like you know it would be nice to know like how many people currently still have chimpanzees in captivity um is it a lot are Peta going after them you know I know that you know because it was such a successful docu series I imagine that Max HBO Max would love to do additional episodes and again I think Tanya brought it up in her interview with Sarah Frasier uh I think Tanya said that yes uh she had been reached out to I think she I think she said Eric reached out to her about possibly doing like a fifth episode she said she left him on red so I don't know but I will say if they were willing to do a fifth episode and if Tanya was you know able to be compensated uh so that she could pay down some of these fees I think it would be worth it I do think that Tanya needs to get some self-awareness she's not going to get Tonka back she doesn't need to have Tonka back she doesn't have the ability to take care of Tonka and people shouldn't have exotic animals do I think that she' be allow she should allowed to visit him I kind of do I do feel like she really truly does love animals I mean you know they talked about this in the film you know she was she was a foster mom for several years I think there is this need for her to take care of stuff which again that could be something more deep rooted which maybe she does need to talk to someone about I don't think that she needs to own more monkeys um but I would be curious like is her you know what is her zoo is it just a petting zoo you know and it's is it is it well kept up is it you know when people go there does it make kids happy does it not feel like they're in captivity is it more like a farm versus you know feeling like a zoo I don't know um but I do you know I think it's like a you know I think all around it's a sad situation but I do think that Tanya was made for TV I don't think she wants to be the star I don't think she wants to be the reality star I don't even think she probably gets that there's kind of like a a sect out there of people who kind of like are rooting for her just because she's so wild and crazy and like we just want to see her with her crazy lip fillers and her she does say that she doesn't go to the lip filler doctor with the backwards hat anymore so uh I think she's moved on from that um but I do look I hope that I do kind of hope we see more of Tanya you know if she does spend some time in prison for perjuring I mean it sucks but you did do the wrong thing so I can't say it's not deserved um but I do think that they you know I I hope ton is Happy um and I hope you know Peta doesn't you know try to keep coming after Tanya at this point I think they've made their point and I don't think that you know she's has such a spotlight on her right now you know I don't think that she could do you know much else hopefully hopefully she doesn't try to buy this island and make chimp Island but um we'll see anyways those are my thoughts on the chimp crazy of it all again uh make sure you're subscribed I'll probably do um you know some updates there like a lot to talk about this week uh a lot of news that came out so maybe we'll do a quick update of all the news and entertainment gossip that's come out in our next live thanks for joining I will see you guys later