Ed Jackson interview (The Mountain Within Me)

content warning this episode features conversation and themes of suicide and PTSD if you or anyone you know needs help please call lifeline on 131114 in [Applause] Australia hello you're listening to a special episode of popcorn podcast with Lee and Tim where we're speaking with mountain engineer and charity founder Ed Jackson about his new documentary the mountain within [Applause] me I'm Timmy fland movie buff and I'm Lee Livingstone entertainment journalist and we love to talk all things movies we have a really special interview for you today friends but before we get into it a few bits and Bobs now after suffering a catastrophic and almost fatal spinal cord injury professional rug B player Ed Jackson's World changed forever the mountain Within Me follows Ed's Journey on his recovery as he achieves the mental and physical Heights of snowdonia the Alps and Himalayas and navigates the life altering challenges closer to home the mountain Within Me is directed by Polly steel and it features Ed Jackson and Lois Jackson Ed Jackson is our guest today in a conversation we are really proud to share with you friends Jackson is an adventurer charity founder broadcas speaker author brand ambassador and Mentor that's right he's all of those things and more despite suffering a serious spinal cord injury in 2017 which not only put an end to his professional rugby career but left him fighting for his life it really did now the scale of his recovery was so immense that the experts had warned him he may never walk again imagine hearing those words let alone continue to ever play like you know rugby professionally again either in an astonishing story of resilience and determination Jackson hasn't let his disability hold him back guiding his life to drive forward with more purpose than ever and overcoming his own adversities and inspiring others to do the same the mountain Within Me from award-winning filmmaker Polly steel follows his story and his seemingly insane attempts to climb and Summit some of the most challenging Peaks on Earth in our open and honest chat Jackson shares the lessons he learned from his Darkest Days in recovery his evolving relationship with the word no his experience of growing through trauma and the inspiring work of his charity millimeters to mountains let's take a listen I said to my physios that I wanted to climb a mountain and they were like excuse me what I wanted to rewrite the rule book of what is possible in life Ed thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today I have not been able to stop thinking about your story your film congratulations on it about to come come out very very soon yeah thanks it's still very it's still hard to get my head around that it's all happened really and then obviously the last week it's really kicked off because it's been three years in the making and uh now it's here but yeah really excited for people to start seeing it now your story your recovery and then your perspective on life should not all be from the same story it's kind of like the perfect imperfect balance of reality but it is your life how did the opportunity to make a documentary of your experience come to fruition it all started when I I started a diary or a Blog in hospital following my recovery and then about a couple of years after I left hospital I was keeping this going and um and I was approached to write a book basically turn the diary notes into a book so I wrote a book called lucky four years ago did really well and then um I would then approached a year after that by Universal saying that they thought they could turn it into a into a movie which of course at the start originally I thought was a joke um it's ridiculous we even got a book never mind a film coming out and when they said it was Universal I did think it was a joke but it wasn't and uh yeah that was three years ago and and now it's here and your director Polly steel has a lot of experience in the documentary space what was it about her that made you trust her with your story yeah I mean there had to be a lot of trust involved because we are putting our lives out there um and also it's not just our lives it's it's a lot of people we care about you know my partner Lois my wife and our family and and also the beneficiaries of charity because the film focuses on the charity a fair bit so I remember paully and George the the director and the producer came down to stay with us for a couple of days right at the beginning of the process and I supposed to feel each other out if you like before we hit the green light and straight away I just knew that she was the right person because it we didn't want it to just be a sort of in inverted commas Heroes Journey bit a piece of entertainment if we were going to do this it had to have a tangible impact on the people we're watching and potentially help some people and that was Paulie's vision from the start as well so yeah we aligned pretty quickly and I'm really really happy with I mean she's done an incredible job if I do say so myself but mostly because the feedback we're getting from people who are watching the film about those takeaways about the way it's impacting you know and think getting them to think differently about their their lives is is exactly what we we're aiming for at the start and I'll I'll back you up there your film is extraordinary and and you found quite the companion in Polly to give your story and your purpose in in life Justice now Ed while recovering in hospital you say in the film that you put on an act for everyone during the day but the evenings were very dark for you the Suicidal Thoughts you experienced must have been IM immeasurably hard to navigate how do you today reflect on those dark nights and what did they teach you yeah I mean obviously it was it was tough to experience I think I've been quite fortunate in my life up to that point you know I'd experienced some trauma I'd lost a friend when we were younger and and that was really tough and and you know playing professional sport even though it's a dream come true it's a bit of a roller coaster in terms of injuries and selection and having to move around the country for depending on what club you're playing for but realistically you know I was brought up in a loving household I had a good education and I was playing you know rugby for a living which was always my dream so this was the first real time I'd experienced thoughts like that of like I don't really know if I've got a place here anymore or am I going to be a burned on everyone else and there was a lot of guilt wrapped up into those thought so it was scary to think like that because it was new for me what it's given me is a real appreciation for people who do struggle with suicidal thoughts and depression and anxiety and all of the things we now help with the charity through so I can now relate to that to a certain degree but also it makes me feel even more grateful for not being in that position on a day-to-day basis or just an appreciation for the rest of my life you know knowing how dark it can get and sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to to really appreciate what else is going on so even though it was scary and it's not nice to take myself back there I think it's actually given me quite a lot moving forward and I just want to thank you for being so vulnerable with the audience and also with yourself too about your experience because it can be really hard and triggering to talk about and I know you get quite emotional in the film about recounting the the day of your accident so I mean those things aren't easy to talk about but you know we need people like yourself to have those conversations that brings me to this you are incredibly determined and your grit is unlike anything that I've seen I'm curious though what is your relationship with the word no are you friends I used to be good at it before my accident then I got really bad at it and now I'm learning to get better at it again because you know you when you when you go to a point where you don't know if you're ever going to be able to do anything again for the rest of your life and then things start to come back and these opportunities come around you're just like saying yes to everything cuz cuz you know you do have a real feeling of this could all end tomorrow because you've been in that place and had to contemplate your own mortality so it gives you this drive and determination to just live every day but of course that's only possible for a certain amount of time until you have burnout and I I've hit a point a few years ago where there was just too many plates spinning and things like my rehab and things were falling by the wayside and even relationships and stuff so saying no is a very powerful tool and sometimes it feels counterintuitive when you've got you're saying know to things that might maybe might be like paid work and you've got to realign with your values for me I had to realign with my values and and that's actually in the film it came in a moment where I had to face my mortality again I don't want to make a habit of it um in my mountaineering um expedition in the pool and um I came back and and did realiz my values what's important to me what gives me what fills me what gives me purpose not just necessarily what might be financially rewarding or what I feel I should be doing based on other people's opinion so yeah that was an important process to go through but it's still a work on I'm not great at it it's always a work in progress isn't it I just want to pull on your experience in Nepal like I'm not a climber but I do love a hike and I'm kind of obsessed with mountain climbing documentaries as a genre but none of them ever show The Descent until yours it's all about the summit which I get and that's a euphoric sort of experience for the subject and the audience but so your reaction making it back down to base camp was that was epic which is just an extraordinary Thing Once audiences see what you endured did that experience on the mountain you know you were subject to- 30° temperatures did it feel like you were back in the hospital trying to wiggle that toe just to survive yeah that's the first time I've thought of it like that I I I think it did to a certain degree you really feel the gravity of the situation and the fact that your life is on the line and um I think on the mountain we were in survival mode and and actually it's amazing it's looking back and thinking back to what actually happened makes you realize how serious it was in the moment I think the human brain can be quite amazing at just going that fear that anxiety is not of any use here we've got to survive so in the moment you're not contemplating it as much there were of course moments where I was thinking you know if we don't make it through this I'm going to be in a lot of trouble with Lois my wife and which of course is a stupid thing to say considering I wouldn't have known anything about it but fortunately you know that wasn't to be the case and it's funny being put in those positions where your life is generally on the line or your future is on the line how much deeper you can dig a lot of people say to me oh you know I couldn't have done what you did or reacted the way that you did and I would say the same thing I I would have I would have said the same thing about me if someone said look this is going to happen to you I would have said that there's no way I could get through that or be positive or keep moving forward but I think people would surprise themselves you know and you learn a lot about yourself when you are in those situations but as I said I wouldn't advise anyone diving into the wrong end of a swimming pool or getting stuck on a mountain in the Himalayas but when those things do come when trauma comes when the tough times come which of course they come to all of us in different shapes and guyses they're the opportunities to grow I think they're the opportunities to add building blocks to your character and that's what makes you who you are at the end of the day it's not necessarily all the things that go right that's the icing on the cake it's the things that the things you have to go through the things you have to survive that make you who you are now I want to talk about your mindset here the perfect segue Ed my uncle had a horrific bicycle accident few years ago and he suffered a a spinal cord injury he's a man I admire greatly he survived not only that but he's back on his feet he's been back on the bike and he's lived a life that none of us thought was ever possible so I actually see a lot of my uncle in you and his wife my auntie had this Mantra this non-negotiable that when you went in to visit him in hospital that you had to put on your positive pants um how does your own positive mindset serve you in life yeah I mean well first of all that's great to hear about your uncle I mean I I know so many amazing people who I took inspiration from when I was going through this journey and and who I would see is far more resilient than I am and there are these success stories out there and often it's based on the level of injury in terms of the recovery but it's more about the psychological recovery have people get to a point of purpose again so and a lot of that is to do with your positive pants you know and I think uh I I don't know if it develops as a natural sort of defense mechanism because when you're going through something like this there's obviously so much to be negative about and if you focus on the negatives it will eat you up um so you learn to sort of try and find every positive in every situation like when you're in hospital and going through this process and F not focusing too much on the bigger picture because that's daunting it's like what positives can I get out of every day to move forward and eventually that kind of become subconscious now don't get me wrong I still get annoyed and stressed and angry and aggravated but I think the the bigger perspective piece of like how lucky you are to be where you are today and how different it could have been allows you to rationalize those negative thoughts quicker and move them on so I don't know how much of it is being having more positive moments in the day I think it's actually just having less negative ones so your Baseline level of positivity is higher like that that's how I see the way that I think now and you certainly um get to latch on to your sort of philosophy and life in the film and and also thanks for sharing that that sort of like snackable advice is absolutely gold for people who just need to hear that sort of thing anded in wrapping up thank you so much for your time I could I've so many questions I've had to slip to the side but now your foundation millimeters to mountains I want to talk about that it's it's become an incredible support network for those who have experienced trauma through a thriving support network that you've built on adventure and Community now you're a man with a vision where do you in lowest see millimeters to mountains going yeah thanks mentioned the charity obviously our big passion project and um it's doing incredibly well we're really proud of it but we actually have like an inch wide mild deep approach with millimeters to mountains we limit the size so we take people a fewer amount of beneficiaries on but we put them in a three-year program and really try and turn their lives around and what we've seen from that is they then go on to help more people so it's about a ripple effect so we'll keep operating the way we operate but we can see the wider Community growing through what the beneficiaries are going on to do next so we want to continue that but we're also launching together Outdoors program so we can impact more people on a lower level which is creating a network of support trauma walking groups around the UK running more events in the UK so really just carrying on doing what we're doing trying to share the message more share other people's Journeys more so other people can take inspiration from them mate you are an inspiration and you said you felt small and insignificant in front of those Himalayan mountains but you stand as a giant to me Ed thank you so much and all the best for the release of your film mate it's phenomenal thanks Tim appreciate it I'm not scared of dying I'm scared of not really [Music] living Lee I'm sure you will agree and listener as well Ed Jackson is an extraordinary human being and the work he and Lois are doing with millimeters to mountains is like lifechanging for people on their healing Journey after suffering a trauma and dealing with PTSD and the like the the community they are building is amazing look we highly encourage you to check out this inspiring documentary I guarantee that your perspective on life will shift it's it's truly powerful it really is the mountain Within Me is available to rent and buy on digital from August 28 well we hope you enjoyed this very special interview episode of popcorn podcast thank you so much for joining us friends we really appreciate it we'll catch you next time we have a website popcorn podcast.com make sure you check it out we've got all our episodes up there for you and if you'd like to get to know us a little better there's an About Us section and we run movie ticket giveaways so keep an eye on the website for more information