Expert says Trump, Vance haven't violated Hatch Act with police officers at events

some CBS News Detroit viewers have expressed some concerns about former president Donald Trump's recent campaign stop in Michigan both he and his running mate JD Vance have visited local police departments they're asking if it's a violation of the Hatch Act which limits certain political activities of some state and federal employees let's talk about it with coie law professor Jeffrey Schwarz Professor thanks for joining us today a pleasure so as we just stated this doesn't apply to all officials uh and not all activities so can you briefly just explain what does the Hatch Act say what does it apply to first of all you have to understand that it only applies to those local and state officials who are charged with or their departments are charged with the control and dispense of federal funds um it's related to activities that are financed in whole or in part by those funds according to the office of the special counsel at the Department of Justice which I read today the state and local employees who are covered by the Hatch Act are prohibited from using their official Authority or influence to interfere with or affect the result of an election or a nomination for office so were there any violations of the Hatch Act if the president or presidential candidate is speaking with law enforcement present Kelly as to the sheriff or the in particular a sheriff who is an elected official uh and a partisan uh elected official to boot uh they're allowed to wear the symbols of their office they're allowed to campaign for themselves and they're allowed to campaign for others they cannot however require subordinates to campaign for themselves or others or appear in a uniform for the purposes of supporting a partisan candidate however if officers are present when a uh an official drops in and the Press happens to be there um they are performing their official duties that doesn't count as supporting that candidate they're not saying or doing anything that would bring notice that that particular officer is endorsing anyone or using his position to endorse someone else so C can you give us another example uh recently JD Vance Trump's running mate was in Shelby Township with a line of uniform police officers including the chief right behind him does that fall under the category you just mentioned where if they were not required to be there it doesn't fall under the hatack or is that a bit of a gray area well if they're if they're if they're not required to be there it could be a violation of the Hatch Act depending upon whether uh they were performing some other Duty or in fact uh they themselves are elected officials such as a chief appointed by an elected official uh someone charged with dealing with government money uh I do have personally some problems under the Hatch Act with police officers who are just lined up behind a can candidate for the purposes of asserting their position as you're showing right now uh their position as a police officer to try to influence people to vote for one candidate or the other that that is a problem the event yesterday the full the full Focus was on crime and safety and um former president Trump talked about how he would support law enforcement like the law enforcement standing behind him and he called out a number of law enforcement groups does that make things uh any more clearcut on whether it was a violation or not well if the groups for example happen to be unions unions have the right to endorse any candidates that they so choose to do so let's say it's it's the fop the Fraternal Order of Police just naming one and he shouts him out for the fact that they have endorsed his candidacy whether on a local basis or a national basis that's okay uh it doesn't mean that the officers lined up behind him are members of the fop but he can shout out to the fop and say thank you very much for supporting my candidacy and I support you that's pretty much typical campaigning kind of thing and it's no different than the UAW shouting out Biden or Harris or whoever else they want to endorse that's okay they can do that now when you said earlier that you you do take an issue sometimes with those lines of officers behind the candidates uh am I correct to interpret that as it could potentially be a violation and if so where do these violations typically go ultimately what can happen well what has to happen is a complaint has to be filed with the Department of Justice and then the Department of Justice would have to determine whether they would prosecute it um if in fact they are a state or government or state government or Municipal Employee or County employee uh and they are found guilty it's the department that suffers the consequences not the individual in other words the the employee would have to for the the the agency would have to remove the employee or forfeit a portion of its federal assistance that it receives up to two years worth of the salary for that employee it also prohibits the fact that if within 18 months of his removal the employee is then allowed to return and come back to that department or any other within that state or municipality now they would have to Forfeit a a portion of the money that they receive from the federal government to be determined by the department Department of Justice all right well we know we'll have a lot more visits to Michigan in the weeks to come so we'll keep an eye out for all of that Jeffrey Schwarz thank you so much for helping to clarify the Hatch Act for us today my pleasure to be with you thank you