Beyond the Boxscore: Essential Draft Tips & Cheat Sheet For Fantasy | 2024 Fantasy Football Advice

Intro [Music] welcome to a special edition of fantasy football today presented by bet MGM the sports book born in Vegas it is beyond the box score Advanced stats from simple people Adam AER Jacob Gibbs and Dan schne and guys look at this comment see I love this time of year right this a great time of year I really thought that comment was going to be a little more specific to us in this show beyond the box score but good job there Adam it is the best time of year it's that time of year where we're all doing our drafts we're making our calls we're making our bull decisions and it's that time of year where I have to squint to see Jacob apparently because he zoomed all the way out of yeah we should have made him zoom in I see your stove in the back there quite have time to get this Jacob can I ask me yeah so you've been getting you've been very very on Twitter probably at this point uh as called out by a lot of people on Twitter the best follow on fantasy Twitter I would think you're up there in the elite tier but there is something that I want I have a one bone to pick with you about your uh Twitter account great it's not even a bone it's just a curiosity what the hell is going on in that background picture of your Twitter profile is that like a joke like you're pushing your friend off a cliff like what is that picture I'm not familiar with this go take a look Adam me and my brother at Canyonlands in Utah um we're just looking out of the canyon I'm not pushing him off or anything it does look like you're about to kill him yeah all right Jacob's a great follow on Twitter jabbs 423 Dan is a fine actually Dan is a pretty good I can't criticize him he's a very good follow on Twitter at Dan schne NFL I believe and I am Adam AER oh there it's displayed right there Dan schne NFL I am at Adam AER speaking of Twitter we're gonna do some Twitter polls to start the show I want to talk about Kiren Williams today and I do think I changed my mind on this one who do you like saquan Barkley or Kiren Williams that was my first Twitter poll let's take a look at the updated results Barkley 62% Kiren 38% Kyren Williams vs Saquon Barkley wrong who do you guys like Jacob likes Kyon I'm gonna let Jacob start this because me and Jacob have discussed this pretty much throughout the entire off season this Barkley value as we head into 2024 so I'll let him make his case first and then I'll rebut if there is a rebuttal I see more touchdown upside with kyen Williams I see more reception upside with kyen Williams he um was second in points per game last year that was inflated a little bit by a touchdowns he scored I think 15 touchdowns or 12 games or 12 and nine something like that that'll probably come down but U my guess is he's probably going to play a pretty similar role to what he did last year and with Barkley yeah I it's mostly that I'm just way down on Barkley I have him ranked like 42nd or something um and that's just because he doesn't project well he doesn't Jaylen Herz doesn't throw to uh running backs Kell Moore's offenses typically haven't thrown to running backs and honestly Sequon isn't the receiving back that a lot of people think um since his rookie season at least he has not been so yeah he between that and then obviously the the touchdown vulturing that goes on in Philadelphia with Jaylen herds um he just doesn't project very well I like that case you make Jacob and I think it's had me adjust my rankings so for Barkley originally I was highing him for two reasons one I think that if you look at the uh the amount of carries the Eagles had inside the five for running backs it's actually pretty high just they didn't cash in on those carries and it got down to the one a lot and Jaylen Herz took over there my thought process was well saquon Barkley is a much better inside Runner and a much better Red Zone Runner and he'll especially behind this offensive line he never really had opportunity behind the Giants offensive line so he'll cash in on those so that was I thought and you'll get a season similar to what we project for Derrick Henry but even in that sense he's still going a little too high because we're not that comfortable drafting Derrick Henry where we're drafting saquon Barkley and the explosive runs have just gone down crazy for saquon Barkley in his career he had nine runs of 40 plus in his rookie year season 2018 he had two of those runs in the last two seasons combined and you could blame it on the offensive line all you won but the Giants on line was not good in 2018 either so if he's not an explosive player he's not catching passes it really becomes that Henry profile you have to lean on a lot of touchdowns and then you still do have the option of hurt stealing them but on the flip side Kiren Williams for me that injury history is just unbelievable now I think if he's on the field you'll be right about this jacob because they're not going to be able to stop with the Rams are doing they're running du up front and they signed Jonah Jackson who's a perfect fit to run that system and they're running it really well and it works because every single team has to respect what Matthew staver can do with his arm and they have to play off the ball with their corners and their safeties so that will still be it'll be just as effective the question is can he stay on the field and that's where I get a little bit more scared looking at his injury history the type of back that he is Kiren Williams um yes he's still the best in pass PR so he will be on the field it just kind of comes down to can you say healthy I have I'm lower on both of these players they're not players I draft in the range they go I'll take a receiver over them um or you know honestly I I consider taking peo over both of them um I really high on Isaiah Pacho so I guess if I had to give the nod I'll give a slight nod to Kiren but it's not I don't feel great about either all right I this was going to be one of our big topics I was going to get to it a little bit later but I I do have a lot to say about kirn Williams as well and why I making the switch to saquan Barkley over Kiren Williams the injuries yeah they do jump out look he had a preseason injury and he missed four games last year I believe five games um but then also uh I think it four games then maybe sat at week 18 he got hurt in the playoffs uh he came out of the playoff game early so there's that but there the thing that I think really swayed me is that he had six carries last year KY Williams had six carries of more than 20 yards all six of them were against three of the worst run defenses in football four of them came against Arizona he had one carry of more than 31 yards he's just not an explosive player so he's gonna need a lot of volume I think and like as you know as inefficient as Barkley was last year he actually did have four or five carries of 30 or more yards and two catches I think he'll have more big plays kirn's more of like a a Bruiser but anyway I'll explain on we can talk about him a little bit more later because I think for a guy who averaged 20 fantasy points per game or even more than that last year in full PPR for him to be going in the middle of the second round it's like incredible I mean's rb2 last year per game and now he's like RB n or 10 in ADP uh next Twitter poll who do you like better khil Shakir or Keon Coleman this one started close and has become a bit Keon Coleman vs Khalil Shakir of a blowout here even bigger or about the same margin as the Barkley Kiren pole K who do you guys like better Shakir or Coleman just a real quick here I like Shakir better as a player um and a talent uh for Fantasy I think you got to bet on Coleman just given the role that he's been playing in the preseason he's out there like every single snap with the starters I don't know if it's going to work because they're just asking him to be the pure X receiver and he struggled to create separation um that's something that seems to be carrying over looking in his preseason film from college as well so yeah I I worry about him a little bit but the the role looks awesome where Shakir is kind of rotating in anytime that they've moved dton con to the slot shakir's come off the field I like betting on both of these players so I'll start by saying that with the injury to Curtis Samuel turf toe I don't know the extent of that but it's not something I'm thrilled about for a receiver to get turf toe it boosts up Shakir for me for sure from a possession standpoint from reception standpoint but I'll buy him at his cost and I'll buy Coleman at his cost too and Coleman has more upside I heard Josh Allen talking about Keon Coleman the other day and he said he's the best body control of any wide receiver he's ever played with and this shouldn't surprise anyone he was a basketball player at Michigan State his ability to go up and change his body in the air and and adjust the football is really impressive they have to figure out a way to use it and he has to figure out a way to get on the same page with Coleman but if they get to that point there could be situations where there's just these one-on-one matchups on the outside and you don't have safety help over the top for Coleman because there's other things to worry about in this offense and Allen just says I got the arm to put it out there I'm just going to throw it up into a spot that he can adjust and catch the football and I think that will happen at some point maybe more down the line so if I have to make one bet it's Coleman but I like both at Cost Coleman could have double digit touchdowns that wouldn't surprise me at all um and like not even have that many targets outside of that but they've really made an emphasis to get him the ball in the Red Zone during the preseason yeah so but let's say they have pretty much the same cost and you had to only pick one would you take Shakir or Coleman Coleman Coleman for the the upside but I also just don't this is just one of those examples I don't understand the cost like why are these Bills receivers not being bought at all in fantasy you can get them all so late but we're also assuming that the bills are going to still be one of the better passing offenses with Josh Allen I don't know I don't know that goes for the Chiefs Worthy's price makes no sense there's a lot of prices that don't make sense but Kelsey and Kelsey's a third round pick and Rashid rice is moving up too like these are call K Kade is a fifth round pick I said Rashid R should have been a second round pick this entire year and or late second round pick and now he's finally moving up still not where as high as he should be all right uh anyway Shakir wins the Twitter poll by the way 64% 63% I think it is now Shakir over Keon Coleman and I do see them going pretty similarly in drafts also I just wonder Keon Coleman playing all the time and khil Shakir not playing all the time it is preseason is that even a good thing for Keon Coleman like he stays out there when the starters come off the field I was I was referencing when the starters on the field only okay but like but Shakir I don't know but Josh Allen barely played right so there's that but fair enough um yeah but in the past Adam I know what you're saying but in the past you've seen these guys like maybe like a parol or those types of guys like really work in slow like they'll just work only with the second and 13 the fact that these guys like him and and btj are working already with the first team I think is a really good sign I got two minutes for this last one here all right we gotta be quick who's your favorite value among the Texans receivers is it Nico Collins in round three Stefon Diggs and in round five or tank Dell in round six 64% of Best Value Texans WR (Nico Collins, Stefon Diggs, Tank Dell) the respondents say tank Dell in round six I think this is a layup but Nico Collins round three Stefon Diggs in round five tank D in round six Jacob who's your favorite Texans value there it's Nico for me I have Nico Collins ranked 13th overall um if you just search yeah if you just search my Twitter name and Nico Collins you will have enough reading material for like your next trip to the toilet at least um tank tank Al though like I think I want to shout out as well because I think he's such a problem for defenses and with Nico and Stefon Diggs to deal with like he's not going to be prioritized very much um by defenses at least not in the way that he deserves to be um because man he's so so good and it wouldn't not surprise me even though he's coming off the field in two receiver sets it wouldn't surprise me if he has double digit touchdowns just because he has the easiest matchup so often and CJ strout knows how good he is I love to hear a little from Jacob Gibbs it's a new Gibbs it's new year new Gibbs getting jokes in though I will make the audience well aware that be careful there's a lot of Nico Collins content out there from Jacob Gibbs and you don't want to spend too much time on the toilet because that's how hemorrhoids happen but yeah my favorite value yeah that may be better for mailbag type of type of content but my favorite value here is tank Dell I think he's the best separated on the team and I really like Nico Collins as well but tank Dell is just a different level proved he can win at all three levels at uh in college at Houston proved he can can level win at all three levels in the NFL last year looked unbelievable on the long catch he had against the Giants in the preseason game just Unstoppable and like Jacob said will likely get the best matchups now my biggest concern though with calling tank Dell here is something we've seen in the preseason Bobby slowick is not running that much 11 personnel Bobby SLO didn't run a lot of 11 personnel last year same issues happening with Shane Waldren in Chicago and it's a big issue because if they're going to run more 12 than most of these teams that means two tight ends in the field and that's the style offense they run or 21 with a fullback on the field it's not good for someone in the mix and my guess is the veteran Stefon Diggs is not going to be okay coming off the field in two wide receiver sets and that's not going to happen so that will be tank Dell so I'm a little nervous calling tank Dell for that reason but this was a team and by the way 11 personnel is three rece one running back one tight end three receivers so that's what we like to see we like to see a lot of 11 personnel and teams are in 11 personnel more often than not I think even like the the lowest right you know talking like 60% is pretty low 11 personnel but the Texans were a team that kind of rotated their wide receivers they didn't have guys playing 95% of the snaps you can correct me if I'm wrong there uh but tankel wins that poll with a round six value Stefon Diggs was last there and let's see tank tail 64% and then Diggs and Collins actually pretty even Collins round three Diggs round five okay uh if you haven't signed up for bet MGM yet use the bonus code fantasy you got to start making some bets all right week one is almost here you're going to get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with bet MGM with the code fantasy you download the BET MGM app you sign up again that bonus code is fantasy deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game and you're going to receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets if your bet loses just make sure you use the bonus code fantasy when you sign up on that MGM quick break on be on the box score we'll be right back college football is back SMU at Nevada on CBS Sports Network all right we're GNA go through some news and not I don't even know if we need to talk about this here but just to give you some updates Jerry Jones said he's had promising talks with cidi lamb the 49ers met with Brandon auk that's good stuff Tyreek Hill though is Injuries, News, and Notes not practicing today he has a hand or a thumb injury Jaylen Wadd also remains out I'm not changing anything in terms of how I'm drafting those guys are you do Hill and W this is brand new information really on Hill Wadd has been a lingering thing okay no uh Jamir Gibbs is trending in the right direction to play in week one I wonder how much work he'll get in week one but it looks like Jamir Gibbs you know I think we did a draft last night he went 12th or something like that maybe a little early for me I don't know what do you guys think as Jacob will see when he dives into my rankings that I sent him and this was even before the quote unquote injury that's worth nothing I was much slower than consensus and Jamir Gibbs this entire off season I don't I've never really quite understood his high ranking I feel like you're just basically buying Devon hn at a larger at a much larger cost um and we get excited by The Flash that jir Gibbs put on film last year he's one of the most exciting players in the NFL but that doesn't mean David Montgomery is not going to be on this roster and still have a role so I just don't quite understand buying for putting first round value on somebody who's in a time share at running back his offense is better than Hans and potentially than any off in the NFL the offensive environment in Detroit just prints fantasy points I think that if you had to bet on any team to create the most plays um the equation would add up for Detroit you think there's a huge jump between the Detroit and Miami offense this year big difference I think I think so the offensive line is much better um I I think Miami might be due for a little bit of regression um so yeah that that's why I think it makes some sense with Gibbs um and just with the Detroit guys in general uh the other thing is there's contingent upside with Gibbs that exists like where if am monor St brown or anybody like that gets hurt particularly him or Montgomery what if Montgomery gets hurt we're talking about in fantasy if Montgomery gets hurt I think vaky would actually play the preseason guy I don't know if you've watched any of him um if montgomer got hurt but if montgomer gets hurt then it's more you know Red Zone opportunities and everything for Gibbs and then if St Brown gets hurt then is probably more targets for Gibbs I think jir Gibbs has the potential to push his targets into like really crazy range range um if he's a bigger part of the offense which right now they've got so many weapons that he doesn't have to be um so yeah I I'm not taking him 12th but in some leagues I think you can justify it if you're playing in a casual home League or something like that where you might be able to get Nico Collins Jaylen Wadd those type of guys in the third and fourth round then yeah go for it I think that makes sense are you taking jir Gibbs ahead of uh kyen Williams saquon Barkley definitely had a saquan um him and KY are neck and neck for me I would because I'm not high on other's players but an example is I would take Jonathan Taylor for sure over Gibbs okay Sam leapor has a hamstring injury again I don't think there's anything that's affecting draft stock Pittsburgh Center Nate herig is out for the season rookie Zack Fraser is going to start at center for the Steelers and I know their offensive line looks terrible now they're gonna hopefully get their rookie left tackle or right tackle I forget where they're going to play him uh before week one he's been out Brock Bowers has a sore foot I think we got to talk maybe tomorrow about Anthony Richardson might maybe struggling a little bit in Camp uh a little bit ups and downs but I think you can expect that as a passer from Anthony Richardson tight end he won't have tight end galani Woods Colts tight end galani Woods is having toe surgery and Saints tight end Jaan Johnson is off the pup list uh Dan guess what I played this morning don't tell me tennis again no I played guess who this morning which was really fun if you had played a sick set of tennis in the last like 32 hours okay let me just be clear about something I played yesterday falsely you you've you've presented yourself a false way to the listeners not all who listen to this I'll talk about some more this I think people are under the impression that you just never played tennis and you just picking up a racket for the first time that was you I never ever ever made that never made it was you Adam apparently got lessons as a kid okay playing constant hours of tennis this summer Y and I'm granting him home court advantage for our match among other things I have a cracked tennis racket I looked at my racket for the first time in months it is a 25 year or no 20-year-old racket I had it in at 15 years old in high school it is cracked now I don't know how that happened but I am debating using a demo racket for our big match because I don't know what's worse and I'll let the listeners decide and I'll put this out on Twitter eventually I'll show the crack racket I'll let them decide what's a better call for me use a demo racket or a cracked racket that I know and that I'm used to that's the question with 20-year-old old old technology come on obviously a demo you should get a you should get a demo racket but a demo is going to be a different racket I don't know if I'm going to have the right feel for it oh my right I look at this I mean look pre excuses and looking for a way out I'm not looking for a way out Robert I will still win this match despite giving him homec court advantage despite using a crack 20-year-old rack despite Adam playing 32 sets in the last two days or whatever it is I will beat him and I will embarrass him and I will show no mercy that's the last part because of everything that he's said and done I will make sure that if things aren't going the way that he wants like if it is bad and it's like 30 40 me 50 me I won't give him a game I will not be nice and just punt a game it'll be 6060 if I wanted to be 6060 and that's what I'm looking forward to okay so here's what you can do you want to get in on this tennis match here you can go to tinyurl.com drafton 2024 scroll down and click on the auction house and then you're gonna see these listings for the match team schne and team AER we've already raised at least $915 for St Jude you are the highest bid and you have only two days left not even a highest bid for Dan's team uh you will co-manage a team with Dan in the fft league not fft open just our fantasy football today league and the highest bid on team AER co-manages my team so we're gonna have co-managers that's basically what you're bidding on now whoever wins the match gets a pick swap in the draft an no gets two things remember okay okay hold on okay get a pick swap after round two and if you want if you like the other person's draft position after the draft order is randomly generated you can swap that as well so and we might add in something embarrassing you can do the other person me versus Adam We're not gonna do it's gonna be embarrassing enough when you lose so anyway please go to tinyurl.com drafton 2024 we're trying to raise as much money as we can for St Jude and there are other things now that you can bid on including private Zoom calls with me Dave Jamie and Heath everyone's got a bid so far except for me so get out there and you know get a private Zoom call with me they are a little expensive I get it but we're trying to raise as much money as we can it's a minimum $250 the other great things that you can bid on here are spots in the podcast league and they're all there are six of them available the first pick fourth pick eighth pick ninth pick 12th pick and 14th pick you're in the podcast league if you make the highest bid you have four and a half days to get there and make that bid tinyurl.com drafton 202 and remember the goal here is raise as much money as possible so I know we're already going to raise over $3,000 just from the podcast League spots but I'd love to see that get to more like $6,000 okay um let's take a quick uh detour from Beyond the box score to tell you this another detour Dan schne you are on the clock in the fft open with the fifth overall pick the first four picks were mcaffrey lamb Hall and Tyreek Hill it is a two receiver league with a flex it is full PPR who are you taking in the fft open can you make this pick for me as commission as Co commission okay you can give me bejan Robinson bejan Robinson yes sir schne all right so that is I'm seeing a lot of three running backs in the first five picks in the F open so far my league I believe was was like that um my league is by the way oh Malik neighbors just went 24th in myag league in my fft open League love it holy Mo you love that it's a little too early for me wow I think it's interesting Jacob because look you posted the stats yesterday the target share in the preseason is absurd the air yardage share is absurd I think that will carry over to the regular season but if you look at the history of betting on receivers in these bottom Barrel offenses in the NFL it's not the ceiling is capped so like when we take him at 2 for for example are you buying him are you B is is the ceiling already baked in the price that's the question I have for you because it could look a lot to me like Waddles rookie season where it caps at four maybe five total touchdowns and it's hard to imagine getting up past that level that ranking or that draft Capital if he's only going to score four or five touchdowns yeah that was my take going into the preseason and then he's just looked so freaking good and I think I think the case you just made is the same that applies to Chris as well who's drafted right right near him you know um so yeah I'm not I'm not too concerned I'm ranked 25th for what it's worth okay all right I mean this guy who took Malik neighbors he actually started his draft with Breece Hall so he's the living on the edge and I went to college with him shout out to Rich oh nice Giants Jets guy he is a he is a Giants fan yes he is they didn't consider that when he took Malik neighbors thank you for REM see if takes any Miami Hurricanes later in the draft I could see no good Miami Hurricanes David njoko oh David Jo all right all right yeah good whatever um all right for Jonathan Taylor's no good yeah you're fake Wisconsin fan four big no way don't you dare are you a Kiren Williams believer we did sort of get into this here let me see if there's anything else I wanted to one final detour sign up for the fft newsletter yes League shouted out more often so the fft newsletter is a free newsletter and it's basically the best newsletter out there I'm just going to be honest signed up to a bunch of different fantasy newsletters they're solid they're pretty good but they're not the same level that Jacob's putting into this newsletter the best from a stat standpoint I mean he's saying that yeah it's easy for Jacob to listen sign up and you'll see for yourself that's really it doesn't it sells itself so go ahead check it out unbelievable and look back because on Sportsline you can find all of his past newsletters in article form he did team previews for every team in the NFL I guarantee you if you just read all 32 team previews you're good you're set for your draft like it covers everything you need to know right there but then keep reading because he'll give you sleepers breakouts yeah we get it we get it yeah you're run rundown killer CBS sports.com CBS sports.com newsletters cbssports.com newww letters and if you read all of it on the toilet yes you will get hemorrhoids which I think pretty clear Dan schne has had before no I've never had I've never had unbel you a Kiren Williams believer so uh I did watch some some tape I think he's very good at setting up his blocks finding holes I think he has very good Vision he's a good running back he's just not fast he's just not making those Are you a Kyren Williams believer? big plays that saquon Barkley is GNA make I would say that Isaiah Pacheko is going to make so I think it's a tough way to rank those three guys but I do believe I'm gonna go Barkley Pacho no Barkley Kiren Pacho I think is where I'm gonna be now where are you at where are you at on peo Jacob uh he's fine he's going to have to score a ton of touchdowns or contribute as a receiver in a way that we've never seen before which seems unlikely with Kansas City adding weapons um and that's dating back to college he was just never really involved as a as a pass catcher so yeah I've got PCO ranked after uh Jonathan Taylor and derck Henry after aan Gibbs and Kiren Williams ahead of Josh Jacobs ahead of saquon Barkley ahead of etn but he did become a pass catcher last year when McKinnon got hurt and they bit don't really have a third down back I think Clyde will be I think they'll do what they did last year and they'll mix in Clyde and Peko on third down but he's good and like the chief's line is good and I think he has one of the highest injury risks of any running back as well peo why is that because he runs so wild and violent I mean truly yes when you watch him like he's putting his full energy into every single run and absorbing as much contact as humanly possible um and also injury predictor from draft shars.com has him as one of the highest most likely to get injured interesting all right uh I don't know that we need to say any about KY let's go to our next topic which rookie wide receivers will contribute uh okay so obviously we got Harrison neighbor will be next Jacob Rookie Contributors: Brian Thomas Jr, Xavier Worthy, Ladd McConkey who's the third highest ranked rookie receiver for you um who is the third highest ranked rookie receiver yeah Xavier worthy makoni worthy worthy yeah okay well you you did um a Twitter post like with every rookie and what you thought about them basically but if you want to focus on the receivers you know give me your rundown of the rookie receivers yeah so I'm really excited about Brian Thomas Jr he was someone who I was a bit uh dubious of coming into the season um he really never Dre targets at a high rated LSU and he only had one season that was like a breakout season it was his third year but he was young um and so really I think that's actually a strength is that he did have such a huge season he had 17 touchdowns at LSU as his I think he was 20 years old 21 years old um he's just looked phenomenal this preseason I don't I hate this comparison because Josh Gordon is one of one of one in my opinion um but someone threw that out there and I'm like honestly he's the closest I've seen of anyone who's come in in terms of moving can I interrupt how has Brian Thomas looked amazing this preseason he has two catches on three Targets on 20 routes m he he did you know he had his big long catch when Gabe Davis was off the field Christian Kirk hasn't been playing I just don't know what like I watched all of his routes today pretty much everything is downfield which is exactly how I thought they were going to use him and for a guy who didn't draw that many targets who might be fourth on his team in targets I'm not seeing it and I don't really get like the the preseason Buzz either because like he's just doing he's like o Odun to be fair too like these guys are doing it when the other starters are off the field and they're not even doing that much to begin with totally fair yeah now when I say he looks amazing I mean he truly just looks amazing I watch him and I'm amazed at how he moves it doesn't look human Okay um yeah he's not getting targeted very often and that might carry over I think Christian Kirk is GNA be the main target and probably Evan Ingram after that um I think he's very very good and very hard to cover and it's possible that if he comes down with a few big plays early in the season Trevor Lawrence is just like this guy is nuts I'm going to keep throwing to him especially on important plays and third Downs in the red zone like that um so I think there is a lot of upside uh I like I said we saw him score 17 touchdowns Calvin reallyy led the NFL in Red Zone Target share and Endzone Target share last year like that's the role that he's Gonna Fill and I think he could do it better than really and really was okay for Fantasy I mean relative to expectations where he drafted him he was a disappoint but he really wasn't that bad um I think that this rookie could expand on that I think Jacksonville's offense could be a lot better than it was last year there's a lot of stuff that went into a disappointing result there that could be better that's where out with btj he he looks really good he's similar to Keon Coleman I think they're very um similar prototypes similar profiles where like the targets probably going to be low the receiving yardage might be low as well but there's upside for them to have especially in baseball leagues really really explosive week- toe performances and if they ever do get a larger role because they're Talent then like they could be a true differen maker receiver and I'll say this about uh btj he'd won in a little bit of a different way than Keon Coleman won at the college level at least so there is an option for him like Jacob said to to win in three ways in the NFL to win as that vertical threat to win on comebacks off the vertical which we saw him do on that one route that everybody's putting on Twitter that was beautiful it's unbelievable it's the stop and start ability at that size and then three which is the Slants he won with a lot of those in Breakers at LSU this is something Keon Coleman didn't do as well a job of so I do don't think it's just he's going to be just that vertical guy they Chuck it to him I think uh Jacob's right there's upside for him to just be the best receiver on this field and this offense could be much better than we expect because we expected to be good and the offensive line collapsed last year the offensive line looks a little bit better and healthier this year it's possible I find that Josh G Gordon comparison very lofty to me I see more Martavius Bryant than Josh Gordon in btj I don't think he's anywhere near as strong as what Josh Gordon was which is what made that profile what it was and that's something I saw on his tape at LSU I felt like he was Lo lost a lot because of his play strength now we'll see if he can work on that and can prove that and that something that could happen young he's still really young a really young Prospect but um look in the end it's like you're betting on upside you're betting on talent and there's no one really on that team if that offense is clicking there's no one really on that team in my mind at least that's a better option in the Red Zone than btj so it's interesting and Ridley had the most or the second most Endzone targets last year so that's something that that's a role that needs to be filled uh would you take Brian Thomas Jr or Keon Coleman ahead of these two guys jsn Jameson Williams definitely ahead of Williams not ahead of Jason ah it's close for me I'm really high on Jameson Williams this year um I know that's a little bit against consensus jsn I'm not light love as a player don't love that sis I I'm not as high on the Seahawks that offensive line scares the hell out of me um I would take him no it's still too much of a RIS I think I would say no and no you take the veterans over the rookies I think so yeah okay um Xavier word y I'm taking him over all those guys lad makoni no way I am so low on lad for this season I couldn't be lower I just moved just updated my rankings I moved them down so many spots L makoni played only the slot in his first action of the preseason who knows what that role is even going to be in a Jim Harbaugh offense I think we could be looking at like a devastatingly bad year for him if you draft him in fantasy I think this is a little bit of an overreaction and I like get the nachos out because I'm buying the dip thank you you know they didn't laugh yesterday but thank you for giving me a Snicker who laughed nobody laughed they no even just now oh you got a Snicker from yeah that was like was I thought uh I thought Dave's joke right after was actually decent better than yours what did he say I couldn't hear him something he made a joke with the word chip as if it was the other word that sounds like chip but I don't remember the exact joke now like who gives a chip oh okay right chip doesn't really sound like that word but fine if you think that's a better no look I I think that I first of all I don't know that I really buy the Chargers Run game like Gus and JK Dobbins at this point who cares who's running the ball would you see how it looks in the preseason yes this is what I'm talking about people the pre-season who did they play did they play the Rams last week does matter the Giants I see all these teams trying to run the ball in the preseason giant Giants are horrible the Texans the Lions nobody's running the ball in the preseason okay they're going to try to run the ball but their best player is still Justin Herbert the running game is not dependent on the running backs the running game is dependent on the scheme and the blockers that's what that's what the NFL is really about okay so right they should they should be fine there they still have Justin Herbert they still need to throw the ball makoni they didn't draft him where they drafted him for no reason they didn't draft they're not gonna sit him for Quinton Johnson right they obviously wanted to get like Johnson's way down the depth chart yeah so Josh Palmer is ahead of him DJ J Char is is going to play but like Mak is gonna play it might take some time where that's the question like is he going to play on the outside that's the big question gonna play in the slot but this is a guy who played SL he played on the outside at Georgia he yes I think he can win on the outside let me be CLE reacting I think we're overreacting to preseason okay and I think he can win on the outside but again why are we over why is this happening anyway in the first place Adam it's because it's been a slow start for him in preseason because he's been injured he has a massive injury profile so he's coming into the NFL with I am worried I look his tape was phenomenal that's why I was so high on lad that's why I drafted him in all the rookie drafts love the tape thought he could be a really good separate at the NFL level that injury profile the fact that he's in this hard ball offense I just it's not for me for this year it's a down the year kind down the line kind of thing that's fine anywhere before the preseason started you know in our drafts we were taking him in like the round people couple digit rounds so I'm buying the dip that's all I'm saying but look but think about how your your cing that at this is like a philosophical fantasy question you're saying because he was being drafted in a certain rage before you now deem him to be a value because he's being drafted in a different range now but that doesn't guarantee that the range he was being drafted before which is just group thing consensus was the correct range in the first place Fair that's fair yeah okay so it seems like a value but we're not it's not a guarantee well no it's not a guarantee I also think Josh Palmer is a good value by the way but I think he's by far the best uh um still a good B and and even better now because I think after the Herbert injury everyone fell on so Herbert's back you know he's gonna play week one right I mean I think he's gonna I don't doesn't seem like they say he looks fine uh who else any other rookie wide receivers that we need to talk about yeah I've got the rookie round up if you want me to just go Ben sinate sorry I need to take a break sorry uh quick break and then when we come back we'll get the rookie Roundup from Jacob Gibbs will'll be right back on fft will you need your sports news anywhere we've got breaking news to bring you then get your sports anytime you want them big trade news overnight to discuss because we know you need sport all the time a lot of movement in the rankings this week a legend adds to their legacy we're bringing you that breaking news right here on HQ CBS Sports HQ anywhere anytime all the Rookie Roundup: Ben Sinnott, Luke McCaffrey, Bucky Irving, Rome Odunze, Ray Davis time I was gonna do like a Yeehaw Western thing here for the rookie Roundup but I'm not gonna do it go ahead the rookie Round Up yea Ben Senate tight end Washington um looks phenomenal out there he's working down the seams he's working downfield he's also every time he had four receptions every single one of them ends in a pile up of players because he's just so hard to bring down um since I'm just throwing out ridiculous comparisons he kind of looks like Mark Andrews to me and I do I worry a bit about the offense I don't know if he's going to matter this year might take a Zach Herz injury or something like that but from a talent standpoint he absolutely checks all the boxes that I wanted to see this preseason and he's being used as a real tight end he's being used in a slot people thought he was going to be used a fullback and stuff like that because that's something that happened early in his career case state that hasn't been the case teammate Luke mcaffrey you might know his brother he's looked awesome he's only played against third and fourth string players so far which is disappointing I was hoping that they might they said they want to experiment with the receivers and see what they've got at the wide receiver 2 spot that hasn't amounted to any first things team snaps for mcaffry yet but um someone is going to get a lot of design touches in this offense Curtis Samuel is gone and if you've paid attention to what they've done with the first team offense it's been very very quick hitting I think there's D doesn't like it I mean it's the horizontal Red Cliff kingsburry off unbelievable Kingsbury goes to Thailand comes back and it's the same offense and it's so painful to watch this I don't know why people keep hiring this guy it's crazy to me it's a great question um anyway someone is going to get a lot of RPO targets quick slant pitches screens that stuff I don't know who it's going to be it might be Terry mclen I speculated on that on Twitter I I made a cut up of all of his preseason routes he's being used much more around the line of scrimmage than typically um and he for what it's worth mclen has actually been one of the most productive short yardage Targets in the NFL um throughout his career every single season outside of his rookie year he's been really really good really efficient with short routes so it could be muren um or it could be luke mcaffry I think he's really good with the ball in his hands and I've really really liked what I saw from him this preseason he he I liked his tape at Rice but he was playing against a lower level of competition and so I was curious how it translate but even against NFL athletes he looks good to me he looks like somebody who can win um Bucky Irving is probably my favorite player to watch this preseason for Tampa Bay I think the Run game is going to be a lot better this year um I can't ever remember the round the name of their first round Center that they drafted do you have it Dan uh Graham Barton Graham Barton he's a beast if you see you know you watch Bucky irings touchdown you might see in the back of the endzone grah Barton just shoving someone into the stands he's crazy I love this guy he's just bowling people I like Liam Cohen the offensive coordinat they brought in I think he might help the Run game a lot um I'm pretty excited for Bucky same team Jaylen McMillan um it might take an injury but man he looks so smooth out there he's been just constant drum beat this training camp preseason about how good he looks in practice he he's just he's open all the time um and so I don't know you know with Godin if he's if that's going to amount to much that third receiver typically in this offense has not been targeted at a high rate but new offensive coordinator things could change a little bit obviously those receivers are aging as well um he's a good name to know Jaylen McMillan I thought Roman dun looks like a stud um it's gonna be it might be a while before he's playing in two receiver sets and everything um and the Bears have used two receiver sets at the highest rate in the NFL this uh preseason make what you will of that I I think surely they've got at some point Shane Walder has to look at his personnel and be like my best bet is to play these three receivers but he didn't do that in Seattle and that was his best bet there too yeah I don't think that's part of his DNA and he even used disley um not dley yeah dley a bunch like Mercedes L we forget he's on this roster I think he's actually gonna get some snaps too in the regular season it's going to be a lot at 12 but yeah sorry no you're good uh Keenan Allen looks slow and romad dun looks like the stud that we saw at Washington and so I think in time he's going to potentially be the one or the two on this team he's just really really good and obviously Caleb Williams look every bit the part uh Ray Davis has been one of my favorite running backs to watch he looks so good and I think he could play a role um he can he can do it all he can play on passing Downs he's good in short AR situations and he can rip off explosive runs he has really good Vision he's just really really fun and so he could cut into James Cook's workload a little bit I don't necessarily expect that um but if Cook goes down this is a guy who could play three downs one of the best offenses in the NFL so to me he's like at the absolute top of the list of Premium handcuffs and I don't think he's necessarily treated that way I think most people prefer Blake corm to him um is that your guys read on that I prefer Blake Corum to him yeah I mean the offense I think is probably gonna be better in Buffalo and I I really think he has shown more as a pass catcher than than Corum um so yeah I Ty Johnson there I mean I feel like that's the guy that's gonna be in because Johnson's been injured much of this preseason that the pass catching guy if James Cook gets hurt um plus I think Kiren Williams is always hurt so if I had to just guess I don't like to guess about who's gonna get injured but I think I'd take a chance on kyen Williams getting hurt before James Cook getting hurt but and I think I mean lorm went well ahead of Ray Davis in the NFL draft he's more accomplished didn't have a great season coming off a knee injury at uh Michigan didn't have a great season last year but it was really good before that and he has been so good near the goal line that guy just scores whenever he gets that chance I think Ray Davis could be good at that too I have a few few thoughts on some of the players you broke down Jacob I want to start with the one that's most intriguing to me it's Bucky Irving and I'll tell you why he's most intriguing I watched your film cut up then I went back and watched my own film he looks really good this preseason and we have a new coaching staff in place here on the offensive side of the ball and essentially the only reason Rashad white was what he was last year in fantasy was volume based um both as a rece a receiver and just pure volume overall versus the rest of the NFL and yet despite all that volume and shout out to my boy Rashad W who once reached out to me when I put up some tape um he was a little bit inefficient with that volume um and there was just no one behind him to take over any role there now there might be someone behind him in Bucky Irving who's really talented and looks really good looks like he's acclimating himself to the offense already I've moved rad white down a few spots he was already very low in my rankings I've moved Bucky Irving up he's one of I have a lot of these priority handcuffs I like a lot of these backs brillan Allen Bucky Irving Ray Davis now let me get to Ray Davis that was the other intriguing one a little bit different than you Adam on this one W Ray Davis's tape at Kentucky was phenomenal when I when I evaluated him I said the only reason he's not going to go early in the draft is because of his age and this perception they had so many carries and he's maxed out quote unquote but maxed out is in my opinion a little bit overrated a lot of NFL general managers and talent evaluators want to get a younger player somebody who hasn't fully hit their potential but in reality like these are this this position of running back like I'm not sure Ray Davis has fully hit his potential just because he played a lot of snaps and was really good in all the snaps like Jacob said he can do it pass protect catch the football run between the tackles run outside the tackles he's like a potential Workhorse if he ever got the RO guy and James Cook we just assuming he's going to be the Workhorse because he was that down the stretch last season but he's not really built to be that and never was when he came out of Georgia he was not comp to his brother Dalvin he was not the same build as Dalvin he is a smaller back and so I'm not sold that James Cook is gonna have the volume everyone projects and I kind of feel like the bills have shown us over the last few years that they want to put multiple backs on the field since Brandon Bean has been their general manager and they've shown us that they're going to get cute in the Red Zone with their backs and it's not just going to be James Cook trotted out there every single snap so I really really like Ray Davis Davis Bucky Irving and brillan Allen are three backs that I want on in my deeper leagues where I have a lot of roster space on the bench I want on my rosters all right can we uh move let's move on to our next topic of that school uh real quick we got a who's this year's puka Jacob we're all Next Puka Nacua: Jordan Whittington, Tyrone Tracy Jr counting on you um Jordan Whittington for the Rams did it again same team yeah let's just run it back with some random receiver on the Rams he looks awesome this preseason and they have been talking about him all summer um so he's a name to know he's not as good as puka in my opinion um and then the other one I'd bring up is we said early this offseason who's this year's puka Tyrone Tracy he looked awesome um he looked decisive he looked instinctual as a runner like everything you'd want to see as somebody who you know made the transition um to running back and everything he looks great and he was the clear-cut 2 and he's back he's back in practice they're calling him Paul Pierce and everything because of the recovery yeah so he's that's really important to note in the preseason game he was hurt for now he's back at practice they did not work in Eric gray with the first team offens of giants I think he had just three snaps and and single TI 26 in the other preseason game Tracy was worked in a lot with the first team offense I think that tells you all you need to know the Giants do not view gray as a first team Runner they do view Tracy as a first team Runner if healthy okay um good shout out will Shipley he's awesome oh he's so good he was so good at Clemson he was so underrated in this draft everyone's this is the thing every rookie is great no this is not every rookie every every rookie is great including the day three running backs bad running back class when historically day three running backs are not good no it wasam it was a bad running back class at the top it was not a bad running back class in general it was a bad it was a bad running back class top endwise yes top endwise yes all right all these guys are great and uh yeah I just it's season of optimism let's talk about the players that we do and do not draft so players that you typically skip over Dan you got got a list or some thoughts you know well you didn't I see in the rundown you had this you didn't really ask me to put Players You're Not Drafting! this together beforeand but I can do it quickly I told you earlier I skip over jir Gibbs at his price I skip I tend to skip over Rashad white at his price that's not a player that I'm buying in on Alvin cerra this is a third player that I oh no that's my guy yeah that's your guy it's not my guy zamir white and and R Andre Stevenson zamir white to me is got to be one of the most mispriced players in all the fantasy like we've literally been looking at almost a pure split this preseason between him and Alexander Madison and yet people are buying him like he's any worth anything anything like you're taking legit you're taking over legit players draft I don't know I'd have to look at ADP so here's the thing I don't I think where he goes at running back as air white it makes sense but because you're taking versus the receivers I'm saying I'm not saying versus the why I I've made the case that round five is the worst round for running backs yeah it always and that's not it's a good case to make Adam because history is on your side like yeah go ahead go ahead go the fft crew has Samir white consensus rank ahead of David Montgomery Naji Harris James Connor no way I prefer all three of those guys those for me yeah umaji Harris no way well it depends I mean is Jaylen waren missing one game even if he's not I'm not taking him over what are we what are we buying into as air white just that he had a good end of the season last year when the Raiders were in games now that has to repeat itself the Raiders have to stay in games and Alexander Madison has to be no part of the offense though okay okay all right go ahead yeah go ahead what you don't I have zir white ranked 96th overall for what it's worth I with Dan on this one I haven't drafted zamir white I mean I I would draft him in a non PPR League I would I would maybe draft him in a half PPR League I don't really want him in a full PPR league but here's the thing like Naji Harris we have we have three years of Naji Harris as an uninspiring you know uninspiring non explosive rusher inefficient guy he's lost what he had at his rookie year where he got all the catches that's gone now if Jaylen Warren's out then okay then things change but I don't think Warren's going to miss that much time so yeah I take him over anybody who's in a split backfield because I don't know that he's in a split backfield I mean I think they're going to try to work Madison in but look I'm not I don't want to make a big case for Rashad for zamir white I think it's a bad time to draft running backs and I would definitely take Montgomery and James Conor ahead of him I agree but I just think white by the way was a former day three draft pick just just to just to keep that in mind they lost their offensive line coach this this off season the Steelers have added a lot of offensive line talent to their roster and they have one of the better run schemers in the game in Arthur Smith to me and the Run scheme is exactly perfect for niji it's all Zone rushing outside Zone rushing that's niji um I have the Steelers projected for the second most Rush attempts the eighth most rushing yards and seventh most rushing touchdowns and yeah I just think so much of that's going to nji right gets his eight carries screaming well that's gonna be annoying but a few pillars I'm also avoiding Anthony Richardson can't buy myself into the cost I feel like almost all of his upside is already priced into the cost and I still think we're going to see some big struggles from a consistency and accuracy in ball placements stand point he makes some spectacular throws but he's also a a lot he had some really bad joint practices with I believe uh the Bengals and it just kind of gives me a little bit of it's not just that I just it's his profile entirely I just think he's been mispriced this entire off season at the quarterback position no one else stands out to me too much at quarterback is Miss Bry I feel like has done a good job there it's okay we can you don't need to name like everybody Oh I thought you wanted all my guys I I want everybody's guys you know yeah we we have plenty of time don't we not really we're at 51 minutes already you know what I'll cut off at just quarterbacks and running backs I'll let Jacob do the rest all right Jacob who's on your do not draft list um sequan we've already mentioned Joe Mixon is a good one to bring up I hate this one because I love Mixon go on you love Mixon man crazy uh yeah I don't love mixing off field stuff I don't love mixing onfield stuff um he is not good uh he's been one of the least effective running backs for some time now um his fantasy value has been predicated on this huge role where he gets a ton of Red Zone touches he gets a ton of receptions he's now on the Texans who could score a lot of touchdowns of course um but their starting running backs were not super involved in the Red Zone last year um if you look at the total percentage of a team's Red Zone touches Joe Mixon was third last year at 47% Devon single T's rate was 29% when he was a starting running back for Houston so I don't expect quite as many touchdowns I hope that the touchdowns aren't coming through the ground game when they've got all these awesome pass catching options and CJ strad could throw for 40 touchdowns um but yeah just looking at projection standpoint I don't expect a ton of touchdowns and then the receiving thing I don't think people realize this but CJ strad throws to running backs less than like any quarterback less than the scrambling quarterbacks if you look at Collegiate running back Target percentage he's at 7% and then the next lowest among quarterbacks drafted in rounds one or two is 12% um so like not close at all and we saw that last year as well and people were like people have told me like it's because of single ter but I mean it dates back to college and then if you watch CJ strout it's the way that he likes to play he takes a lot of sack because he's looking to throw the ball down the field all the time he's very similar to will Levis in that regard um where he he's like I want to make the big play and if I get sacked then I'll just make up for it on the next play and he's got the Personnel to do it with the receivers there in Houston um so I'm really not expecting very many targets from Mixon at all and so what's the end result it's just not it's not good for Fantasy it's basically like the outcomes that I projected for saquon Barkley and Jonathan Taylor and people like that where I was gonna say that they have to have they have to have a massive touchdown total um and later you know there was such a reduced cost well because he's much much much worse than those guys he's been much much worse and he's been a top 12 running back per game in five of the last six seasons because you're getting but you're getting like first of all rookie quarterbacks don't throw to running backs that much but isn't it possible that CJ stad says okay I'm maturing as a quarterback instead of taking sacks I'm going to start dumping it off to my running back a little bit more I or to Stefon Diggs and D I think you're right on that on that front Jacob I think you're right the reception is gonna go down because especially because that that that Bengals offense is designed in a way that really features the running backs in the passing game that's not the case for Stroud or Bobby Slow what I have noticed is that you know Joe burrow if you look at his last two years and his running back his to running backs two one or like two years ago on first and second down when Mixon was playing two years ago was like really high I think last year it was actually kind of low but if you are a guy like Mixon and you are the only running back on the field in those situations I think he's still going to end up with 40 or more catches which isn't really that much but we don't really live in an ERA with a with a lot of running back catches right now like there aren't that many guys who are catching a ton of passes I think there were only I can't remember but like maybe eight running backs had more than 52 or 53 catches last year so if you can get 40 like you get you get a top five running back every year that doesn't have 40 or 50 catches moster last year Kiran Williams was like rb7 and he missed all those games so he didn't have that many catches it it doesn't matter as much as it used to and Mixon is just he's the same guy he's like a average or below average player on a great offense who's gonna get all the touches that matter and just kind of end up as a as a useful running back and now you get him in round four you just have to take him in round two he might be fine but man I would so much rather take the receivers and tight ends in that range and take running back places I do understand that and generally speaking we're aligned obviously from a strategic standpoint on that almost 100% of the time my one thing with Mixon is while I think we're going to lose some receiving volume I think I actually feel more confident about the touchdowns because two reasons and it's the real reason I like Mixon this year his whole entire career I feel like he's been miscast as a runner in in Cincinnati because they're primarily just with burrow a shotgun offense now with Bobby slowick it's an under Center offense and that outside Zone scheme and his style as a runner in the outside Zone scheme from under Center I think fits so much better so I think people might be very surprised at how effective he is as a runner this year in the red zone and just overall that's my bet with him by going under Center by allowing him to be what he should be as a running back not this shotgun Runner which is really not good for any running back in general to be completely honest but it's definitely not good for Mixon style he's a one cut and go kind of guy I think that he could fit this scheme well that's really what I'm banking on I could be way wrong on that but that's where I'm at with Mixon I don't love him or anything I'm not super bullish I just think the cost he's an easy win yeah one last thing because people are pushing back on me saying that Mixon isn't a very good player um he avoided 12% of tackles last year which ranked 33rd of 35 qualified running backs he averaged 2.5 yards after contact per Rush that ranked 32nd of 35 qualified running backs I know people don't like PFF grades but Deon single is at a higher PFF grade than Joe Mixon every single season he's been in the NFL can I ask you where Chase Brown is in that if you have that you might not have that obviously I don't have it off the top I'd be curious because I think Chase Brown was low in that as well and I would bet that most Bengals running backs will be low in that when you're running primarily out of shotgun I just don't think it's good for the running backs that Z Zack Moss has been good there running Z Moss has okay so that defies that okay that's fine well I mean no no Zach Moss is coming from inds does not defy that okay no but he's been that been a good it's been I mean I don't have any data to back that up it's just something that my observation is when you're running out of shotgun it's not good for running backs yeah my thing with chra who's on Dan's list of players who doesn't draft and Mixon is that these guys are not great running backs anymore I don't know if Mixon ever was maybe had one season um but I just think they're so discounted now being round four guys and they're the last group of running backs you heard me talk about all the time Mixon camra Ken Walker this group of three running backs before we start to get to the guys that I really don't really don't want to take right the Aaron Jones James Conor daavid Montgomery zamir white Rand Dre Stevenson Naji Harris Jonathan Brooks I I not that I hate all of them but I don't I don't know I just don't want to be in that group and then you still have great wide receiver value when that group is going so that's why in round four I it's a no-brainer for me to take one of those big three of Mixon cerra and uh Walker and then get back into the tank Dell T Higgins George Pickin Amari Cooper group in round five instead of having to take James Conor zamir white there I say that every show but I wanted to say it on beond the box score Dan about it for what it's worth Joe mixon's avoided tackle rate dropped to 8% when he was not running out of the shotgun okay so it's even worse yeah all right maybe Joe Mixon just sucks and I'll be wrong about that kind of seems like he sucks yep it's definitely possible but again it it doesn't necessarily matter if you're the lead guy in a great offense and then the reason why I like chimra is because who is go if if CRA sucks again he hasn't had a 30 yard run in three years or maybe his his high in three years as 30 yards who's taking him off the field are they gonna make TM Hill the guy like he doesn't have a good backup and Damen Pierce looks horrible in the preseason and he's coming off a horrible season who's taking Joe Mixon off the field if they rush for 10 touchdowns mixon's getting eight of them so I just like I agree with your assessment that Mixon isn't good I've been saying that for a while there I think he's like average maybe a little below but I don't he's B but I just love I love the situation to be I like volume in a really good offense that's why I like Mixon but I also just weirdly think he's going to fit that Bobby SLO system that that's one we'll check at the end of the year Jacob and we'll see what happens there and if I I was on something at all there and I think it's funny that you get Nico Collins Joe Mixon CJ strad Stefon digs tank they're all within like 30 picks yeah like the Texans own that part of the draft from rounds three to six bet good bet on good offense is anyone else you wanted to mention Jacob um Aaron Jones similar type of thing um worry about age worry about injuries could have uh competition in the back field also worry about the offense Jordan Addison on that note um don't don't want Jordan Addison lad mcon we've already hit on um I've been out on makoni the whole time worry about him playing in in two receiver sets I don't think he's going to at least early on um he has real struggles against press coverage um that the team's going to run a lot uh Z flowers is one that might surprise people I think Z flowers is fun um but so much of what he got last year was designed and when Mark Andrews was healthy which was really not very often like half the season basically like nine games in those games Mark Andrew was used I think this is actually important Mark Andrew was used in a way that people didn't realize like this was a new offense under Todd monin and when Andrews was healthy he was the offensive focal point of the passing game like he was used more like Travis Kelce whereas in the past he's been really unique in the way he's been used Mark Andre has been by far the best downfield threat at tight end um in the NFL since he's into the league and this past year for the first time we saw him use I think his average dep of the target was like seven yards or something normally it's around 10 um and when Andrew was healthy Z flowers was running down the field way more and clearing out space for him um and so if that is the way that they want to to use those two that's not very good for for a flowers he wasn't targeted at a very high rate on those routes um he's somebody who struggled a bit against press coverage as well um so yeah I just to me I don't understand where those two are picked um relative to each other it's it's changed some people are getting higher on Andrew and lower on flowers but I still am just not very interested in flowers where going I I I don't if you remember but like all throughout the early off season I kept saying why are people taking Z flowers ahead of Mark Andrews it makes no sense to me yeah now they're not even really that close Z flowers a late round six pick so I was completely out on Z flowers and now I'm like very in on Z flowers my third receiver because he's terrific I don't want to judge him too harshly on on what he did as a rookie you know he's a terrific athlete I don't think he's gonna have a great season but I think he's right there with like Terry McClaren I would take McClaren ahead of him then right after that I'd take flowers ahead of Deontay Johnson I'd take him ahead of reluctantly Watson and Jaden Reed um I don't know how about you guys flowers are the Packers um I actually do have him ahead of Watson and Reed I I don't yeah where he's going now is about right I just haven't drafted him yet maybe that's gonna change over the next you know few weeks I'm keeping an eye on some of these fft open leagues ktie mox's division just started drafting the guy with the first H pick took mcaffrey guy or a girl team name I'm on another level it's pretty good oh if you have a mon ra same brown am another it doesn't really make sense if you draft mcaffrey Yeah well it's still funny okay four guys I haven't been drafting sorry Jacob I have not been drafting Nico Collins I love Nico Collins wrong I think if they didn't have Stefon Diggs Collins would be an early second round pick for me I think it's gonna be frustrating with the those three guys um I haven't drafted DK metf just I don't know I I don't see like I haven't drafted him a lot but I don't dislike him either so it's weird no I don't dislike him at all I think he's fine in round four but i' take neighbors over him um I I I would rather wait around for all the guys I keep mentioning Cooper Higgins Pickins tank Dell that's probably my favorite area for wide receivers love those values so I haven't drafted mea I take Devonte Smith over him whereas earlier in the off season I think I was metf but now I'm taking Smith there and I haven't drafted Sam laporta because I just think it's it's just too realistic that one of the other big four at tight end is better than leapa I don't see him being clearly better so I haven't taken leaport and I haven't taken KD it's a guy who's averaged fewer fantasy points per game than the year before four straight Seasons wow um and if auk if there's like an issue with I I'm starting to start think that like auk's gonna have a bad year because I I don't know if people have talked about this but I think two years ago when Debo Samuel I'd like to confirm this when Debo Samuel had his down year I think he was a a training camp hold out and everything that's happening with auk I just hate there's some data behind that but I'm not sure it's that like um what's the word like I don't know if it's like definitive data on it but I have seen some data on training cam holdouts I think if he goes to the Steelers he's effed if he doesn't go to the Steelers we're I'm assuming he's gonna be back with San Francisco but I'm I'm not like I'm not drafting Brandon auk right now either uh but uh you know like that's the thing with KD I don't think he can be I didn't really love his cost to begin with I'll just say that I don't think KD can be great with both auk and Debo on the field and healthy however I'm getting worried about auk which should make me more optimistic about George KD and you could look at Josh Jacobs training camp hold out last year that was horrible for him and Jonathan Taylor with the injury and the hold out that didn't work out well for him it was a little bit different because he got hurt but uh I haven't seen too many examples of wide receivers like let me ask you a top of the board question for both of you that I've been curious about as we go through draft season and we're all going to have some of our biggest drafts coming up are you guys at all nervous about Jamar Chase and CD lamb holdouts I'm like a few days away what are you gonna do you're still drafting him normally correct yeah okay after the running backs after Bree Hall and beon okay well not not not CD lamb CD lamb out of those yeah of course lamb has to be yeah okay you include mcaffrey in there right Jacob yeah mcaffry first do you want some nuggets on Sam La pora nugget yes so I was where you were at on the porter early in the offseason um I did you know touchdown regression type stuff and just worried that he was overvalued and I think that is kind of the case um but the more I dug into his Target numbers I'm actually really encouraged about him as a player and the potential for him to take a massive step forward in year two um in terms of targets and receptions and yards and we talked about contingency upside I don't think that Amon St Brown's Gonna Miss time just because that guy is really intense Adam you Adam on the podcast you know he's gonna play he's going to play through anything um but if he were to miss time then leor is going to explode like he might put up a historic type of tight end season um so the stuff I've gotten here I want to compare leor to early career Travis Kelce Mark Andrew and George KD he's ahead of those guys in basically every metric and he did it at a younger age than all of those guys in their first season um all the pout stuff favors leaport compared to those guys in their first year his Target pout run rate was 24% Kelsey was 23 Andrew was 18 KD was 17 all these guys were productive early in their career they might not have been huge fantasy superstars in L Le Porto was as a rookie but by year two at least they were already putting up massive numbers and that's the other thing that's interesting is they all took Kelsey didn't Kelsey was just really good in year one really good in year two the other two took massive steps in year two which is pretty typical of tight end if you look at the analysis that Ryan Heath of fantasy points has done um year two is when you want to be targeting tight end year three as well but year two is a big Leap Forward year um and leaport was better than any them as a rookie in terms of not just you know fantasy points at touchdowns but also drawing targets the other nugget that I found that was really interesting was Sam laort out targeted am Mana St Brown in four games last year he's the first teammate to out Target am Mana St Brown in a game that St Brown played 80% of the snaps or more since his rookie season so am mana's first game where he played 80% of the snaps T.J Hawkinson saw more targets since then 18 straight games no one out targeted Lea did it four times as a rookie which is definitely noteworthy to me yeah that's it those are the Nuggets I give you one other great Le because they they have almost exclusively indoor games this year and he caught all 10 of his touchdowns in 11 indoor games last year the Jared go throws his touchdowns it's the only time he throws his touchdowns yeah like aren't they playing like 12 or 13 indoor games this year yeah that's what he's saying schedule's indoors um but I think the difference might be Dan and I I think are higher on Jameson Williams than you are and that's what I think gonna be one of the differences this year I think Williams has a big Target Spike uh I don't think hurts St brown but probably hurts if it hurts anyone hurts Le pora yeah I have a tough time getting there with with Williams and the targets just because the routes that he runs his average route depth is over 10 yards his average depth targets almost 20 yards like no Chang though I think that that's the thing like I feel like he's not just that guy he's running different routes in in training camp that's I thought he was more than that guy at Alabama that's kind of where we're at with that yeah I hope so if you're right you're right though I mean that's kind of but if he's just that guy again Jacob like if he's what he was last year you're right that is GNA be a bad call and he's gonna be bad for Fantasy guys great stuff today it was fun to get the band back together yes it was yeah one week excited about it one week from today is the match the match better hope that you're as good as you're saying you are and I'm good for you I think you're gonna win I do I do that now you're you're call I'm back and I'm talking about the broken racket your a told me you had a knee injury yesterday that it was Offline that I'm online little knee injury and then B now you're saying you're gonna lose that's pathetic you have confidence in yourself I played a guy yesterday who played High School tennis okay beat him 64 60 so have some confidence was two days ago yesterday I was losing five every day I'm losing track sorry I was losing two five I came back I won a tiebreaker wow you're probably better than him so I think you're gonna beat me but I think you're gonna beat me like 63 63 I don't think you're GNA Bagel me as you say only Bagels will be at the Mount Kisco Diner after after excited you've talked up this Mount kiso Diner a lot so it better be as good as you say and we're gonna have full Food review full full match review everything how old was the guy that I played he that's what he said he said he was like was this guy 60 no he's younger than Dan he's like the same age as Dan he's 3 what are you 37 37 I'm just just a month ago turned 35 oh sorry you look 37 all right we got to go everybody wow double bagel on its way we gotta go uh for Jacob and Dan and Thomas I'm Adam have a great day we'll talk to you tomorrow on fantasy football today [Music]