How Polaris Dawn Will Do The First Commercial Spacewalk!

hi it's me Tim DOD the everyday astronaut I'm at a random Airbnb here on the Space Coast waiting for the first crude Starliner launch but I just had the opportunity to catch up with the crew of Polaris Dawn and talk about the incredible Eva or extra vehicular activity suits that they just revealed with SpaceX now although these may look very similar to The Standard SpaceX space suits the Iva suits or the intra vehicular activity suits they're actually basically entirely brand new which is something that I learned in this conversation and these space suits are going to allow them to do the first ever commercial spacewalk uh this Mission has a ton of incredible science and uh it's a really complicated Mission profile that we talk a lot about in this conversation so without further Ado let's hear from them why don't you guys just introduce yourselves and uh and then we'll get into some awesome questions to learn more about your mission hi everybody uh my name is Sarah Gillis and I am both an engineer at SpaceX as well as one of the mission Specialists on the Piston mission great hey everyone Jared Isaac man Commander player ston kid potit uh Mission pilot uh Air Force background 20 years f-16s hey everyone I am Anna Menan and I am also one of the mission Specialists on this Mission as well as the medical officer and a SpaceX engineer awesome okay so first off let's do because it's maybe been a little bit for some people to remember your mission profile is quite different from anything flown really since the the Gemini era frankly uh and very different even than from from Jared what you did with inspiration 4 I just run us through the mission profile of of orbits and all that stuff of of where is Polaris going yeah sure um so I mean you you you said it right I mean inspiration for was just about showing that um you know that it could be done uh sending a very inspiring message about what our future could look like in space and also the you know things that we could accomplish here on Earth we always said if inspiration 4 went well there'd be a lot of exciting missions to follow and there have been you see it with Axiom and and the Polaris program is just another you know great example of that so we named it Polaris after our North Star which is a constellation of three stars for those aren't familiar Polaris program contemplates up to three missions the third mission being the first crude flight of uh Starship uh and the first mission which is what's approaching very very soon uh is polaron and we've got some pretty awesome objectives so uh we'll launch in a uh 190 by 1200 kilometer orbit that's where the second stage will drop us off from there we'll do a bunch of system checkouts we'll raise our orbit up to 1,400 km uh so that'll be the farthest we've gone uh from the earth since uh the last time humans walked on the moon with Apollo 17 there's a lot we stand to learn from that with uh between our slate of science and research experiments vehicle architecture you know avionics generally don't like radiation and we should learn from that and then we'll come down to our cruise orbit uh which is 190x 700 km we'll vent our vehicle down and we'll conduct a spacewalk um and we're going to test out a brand new space suit this is super important uh you know Eva suits have not uh really evolved much in the last 40 years uh they're incredibly expensive uh and they're nothing as you know like the movies of just throwing on your helmet and running outside to explore the planet and uh and SpaceX wants to move in that direction uh you know especially if we imagine a future with lots of people on the moon and Mars someday so we're going to uh test out our our new space suit we're going to communicate over uh you know uh starlinks over a beam of Light which is pretty cool we got a very exciting message send um in that regard and then about 40 science and research experiments so an awful lot to accomplish okay there's so much to just unpack from that little quip there uh so let's let's start off at the end there you talk about starlink is this the first time that uh a dragon caps will officially use starlink as probably your primary source of data Uplink and down link is is this the first time yeah it would be the first test of Starling from space and and just to amplify uh as Jared mentioned this is a developmental program um but we also want to make sure that uh we're doing the right thing with planet Earth uh and improving life and that's exactly what SpaceX is doing with starlink capability with laser communication you know we got to see it firsthand with our collaboration with with St Jude they brought us to to the Philippines for us to deliver starlink uh units um and and what we witnessed was uh the ability of uh families in remote locations to be able to communicate uh with hospitals and get the care that they their children needed who were fighting cancers or life-threatening diseases uh so it's it's bringing a capability that's completely changing the way we communicate specifically for these remote locations tele medicine uh uh treatment um procedures education because they'll they'll they'll require long-term care at some of these facilities they got to get an education they got to be able to communicate with family back home so a really important research that is more or less changing uh globally how we communicate um and so we just want to continue that um that uh uh evolution of communication and it's really important for us to use starlink for these longer duration missions you know the uh the Broadband is better um the latency is less um and and it's going to be the first time uh that it's been done from space modifications done to the the capsule to the to the trunk to be able to communicate you know we're traveling 17,500 milph these satellites are traveling the same speed trying to link those two up is is no short of a miracle and that's what SpaceX has been working on and is this one of the first times too that starlinks going up instead of down because normally it's obviously linking to Earth but uh you know I don't know if we know have ever really had a chance to see them operate in that uh inverse Direction yeah I think it's super exciting um just envisioning the the sterlink constellation we're going to be both orbiting above and below it on every Revolution and so you're basically having to direct a laser beam at the trunk of the spacecraft to send data to the spacecraft and then inversely pointing a laser beam that's attached to Dragon back at the closest star link as you're passing over it um so incredibly complex technical challenge um the SpaceX team has been working really hard to make this a possibility and I know because you care about the details I just want to make sure um what uh what is specific in what you said um you know we're testing out this capability it is the first demonstration of this it won't be the primary means of communication for our spacecraft um so we absolutely hope to spend to send um you know some really hopefully inspiring messages down to the Earth while we're up there um but it is absolutely a test demonstration of this technology you're right that's absolutely a good clarification in my head I was thinking it's by far the most bandwidth that You' be able to get uh to and from that's yeah and you're absolutely right it's still not your primary means of communication especially not on a first go like this that would probably not be too wise uh but now talking about orbit I didn't realize you I mean now that you say it out loud it's obvious you're flying below the shelf of starlinks and then back up again above how do you what's that look like as far as just trajectory and and and avoidance and and how do you know that there's I mean even when you do that in a in a airplane or a jet as as all of you know with all your flying experience I mean how do you avoid uh starlinks and and know that your path is clear and all that stuff what's that look like yeah you know I think frankly the work that SpaceX is doing for debris avoidance overall and um you know building out that capability to ensure we have space safe space flight overall is incredibly impressive and one of the things I think is really cool about this mission is actually SpaceX will have knowledge of dragon's location and so satellites can actually avoid Dragon preemptively throughout the mission um so it's a just a really cool integration of Technology across the spacecraft and this entire constellation of satellites for our for our mission so there might be some active avoidance almost between all all systems starlinks kind of changing their orbits a tiny bit to make a little more room make make those margins safe and also Dragon does it have to do any maybe a little maneuver at apy or something to help avoid or or how what's it actually look like there's a lot of space out there um and uh and only about 5,000 satellites so I think uh odds are pretty good that we won't have to worry about any um avoidance Maneuvers with known objects um I think it's uh you know when you start talking about it greater than a th000 kilm uh there's a lot of debris up there a lot from like old ASAT tests and communication satellite parts and such like th that that's what you're way more worried about not intelligent starlinks that can you know self deconflict it's it's the um those really small but very painful objects that um that you can't track that's uh the bigger concern yeah okay now before we get totally into Suitland here because obviously that's the exciting uh Buzz for now I've got a a kind of more medical stuff I guess uh for Anna uh what's it look like as far as you guys are going up to 1,400 km you're starting to get into a lot higher radiation portions you're starting to kind of get into those OU regions uh the Van Allen radiation belts what's that actually look like on your mission planning and and how are you tracking radiation what what uh types of things are you doing to uh you know avoid or or you know I guess reduce the the exposure to radiation or I guess what's it all look like on on the medical side of things yeah so we are as Jared alluded to earlier doing a ton of research on this Mission over 40 research science and research experiments over the course of the five days and some of those are specifically targeting this higher radiation environment and so um to give some examples we will be there are historically um mentions of astronauts seeing light flashes that are correlated with radiation or believed to be associated with radiation so we will be doing some analysis and tracking of of those sorts of human um experiences in that higher radiation environment we will also be testing out a doing a tech demonstration of an a concept that utilizes a camera in that higher radiation environment to attempt at attempt a first x-ray in that environment essentially harnessing harnessing that higher radiation to see if you can get this really mobile um x-ray machine making use of the the space you're in um and so these are just you know a couple examples of how we are attempting to really learn while we are up there and then be able to to take that knowledge back and improve future asut Liv's F future missions that we're all all excited about um but in terms of the you know the medical implications the the dose of radiation that we anticipate receiving over the course of our five days is approximately equivalent to about two to three months on the International Space Station so you know well within you know human physiological limits you know sufficiently safe um and you know we will learn a lot from it and that's probably mostly due to the part that yes you're reaching those High orbits of 14 00 but that's at your apy and then you're coming back down so you'll receive some amount of exposure and then it goes lower and lower so it's not like you're spending five days fully at400 kmers is that kind of exactly yeah and in fact if just given your you know more technical interest uh in fact the vast majority of the radiation exposure will will not even be at Peak apy of 1400 but the first you know two orbits at 1200 km do go through the South Atlantic anomaly um which that those pretty much those two passes are your two to three months of of ISS um exposure right there wow and this has probably never really been done like this where it's almost intentional to fly a flight plan where you kind of know there is increased exposure levels and it it leads to a lot of potential for science but yeah it's funny I think people always get this fear of there's huge radiation levels but they forget that you know it's cumulative exposure and that you guys are kind of passing through through portions uh for kind of a Set time uh did that between that and then also your we'll kind of get into the space suit now hereo transition between the radiation exposure but also uh the way you're going to depressurize the entire spacecraft and have to then repressurize it eventually did those two things feed into your your mission planning and actually your your profile that you're flying like how much did those two things I guess uh play into that yeah you know I think um kind of as we've talked about we'll start out in the 1200 kilometer orbit get through the South Atlantic anomaly passes then raise our orbit and really get the data collect the data and then lower ourselves down um to about a 700 km orbit that will be the the cruise orbit for the rest of our mission um and you're you're very correct that you know depending on where you're at in your orbit when you're super low you have all the protections of um the Earth you know you have your magnetic field that's helping you sh Shield you from radiation you have many fewer um uh particles for instance debris that will just deorbit into Earth um so we will be lowering our orbit then and proceeding with The Space Walk um to kind of paint the picture for the spacewalk um we will all start by getting suited up and the suits that you know were announced so recently um will pressurize all four crew members in the suits on 100% oxygen um before depressurizing the spacecraft um what's what's unique though is the preparation for this actually starts almost an hour onto orbit uh so kind of as Jared alluded to you can't just put on a space suit and go out at a much lower pressure without um you know decompression sickness risk for instance and so on our mission we're actually doing a really novel pre-breathe protocol where over the first 45 hours of the mission we are slowly decreasing cabin pressure and raising oxygen concentration and that allows you to do a gradual removal of nitrogen from the tissues so that by the time you're you know at that 700 km orbit we're 45 Plus hours into the flight um we are at a much lower cabin pressure to start and so the difference between that cabin pressure and then our suit pressure is much smaller and you can you know you think of a can of soda you want to basically um when you open it you want none of the bubbles to come out is the point of like desaturate de saturating or removing nitrogen from your system um and so that's kind of the the profile that we're looking at for this Mission by the time we're ready to go invent the spacecraft so can you remind me again those the numbers like what is the base pressure um and mixture ratio of dragon on normal operations and then how low are you trying to get it and you are getting it all the way down to a pure oxygen environment in Dragon is that correct um so usually we operate at a standard atmosphere um 14.1 is or 14.1 to 14.5 at 21% oxygen um for our mission by the end will be around uh 8 and a half PSI with maybe around 32% oxygen not sure on those exact precise final numbers right now um and then our suit uh at the when we start pressurizing will go on 100 % oxygen for a fixed duration before we start venting the spacecraft so we're not getting to 100% oxygen in the spacecraft but we are getting it in our suits and pressurized on our person um before we then proceed with depressurizing the spacecraft and opening the hatch so this is where things get quite different um and correct me if I'm wrong I can't think of another time that four humans have all been exposed to the vacuum of space at the same time is that correct because even though you even though there'll only be at first one person at a time doing a technical Eva the hatch is open you all are essentially doing an Eva you're just doing an internal an Iva Eva like you're inside the spacecraft the spacecraft is exposed that's in the environment of space absolutely we are we are all going on this space walk um and when you think about what's required to do that the spacecraft SpaceX for the last two years has been working on how do you safely take a spacecraft to vacuum cuz it wasn't designed to do this under nominal operation so it's been an immense amount of development by the SpaceX team um you know you have to add a nitrogen repressurization system you have to ensure every material on the inside of the vehicle is compatible with vacuum and is not going to off gas in ways that we aren't planning for um you have to add Mobility aids to the inside of the spacecraft to ensure the pressurized suits are able to interface with the environment and move safely and successfully uh so been really fun for us over the last two years to be working with the SpaceX team you know iteratively testing the suit design in addition to the mobility Aid design and all the other aspects that have to come together to make this happen it's been an immense immense challenge for the SpaceX team and Beyond just that I mean my understanding is the suit is actually pressurizing to over five PSI which is actually quite high in terms I mean like the uh I believe just the Emu was four and a half or something uh and I believe like the Apollo space suit was uh I think below four like the A7 um the a7l was below 4 PSI if I recall so 5 PSI brings up other technical challenges like Mobility your joints get stiffer the the pressure difference between the inside the space and outside it just makes you more and more into a an hardto maneuver inflatable uh arm thing you know I can't even imagine so what what technical challenges how did you come upon being wanting to do 5 PSI what was the trade-off there or what technology was unlocked that allowed for uh that increased Mobility even at those higher pressure levels yeah well I think first you know give consideration giny and Apollo they were flying in 100% oxygen cabin so uh they had already purged uh all of the nitrogen from their system before the the Eva in which case sure you would much rather have a lower pressure suit and gain back uh mobility and dexterity now fortunate for us is that you know 50 60 years have trans ired so um we can compensate by not having that 100% um you know cabin environment by you know doing a much more gradual uh pre-breathe to purge nitrogen from our system but you still want that extra DCS protection so running at a higher pressure helps um counteract that and still retain some Mobility some dexterity by just 60 years of progress in um uh you know materials and joints and and that's I mean really it's a lot of that go credit goes right to to SpaceX and all the talented people they've had working on this uh it's been exactly as you've always observed them do in the in the world of building Rockets of test something uh learn from it and and next week they'd do it totally different we we would leave SpaceX on a Friday saying well that suit seems okay and then you come back Monday and you've got two new arms and it become and it's a Frankenstein suit but you're like wow that is so much better um and in fact you know as we finally got in our flight suits realized that you know sometime you know a couple months ago they actually stopped rolling in some of the learnings into our training suits and just started rolling them into the flight suits so like instead of it being like a week by- week graduation when we put on our flight suits the first time it was like holy hell this is like a huge step in the in the direction of progress so uh hopefully that gives you some background on why we run at the higher pressure it's just really good for combating DCS and also that they were able to do that and still uh gain lots of great ground in terms of mobility and um uh dexterity that's amazing so let's hear a little bit more about the suits uh some of the cool featur well first of all it's unbelievable they look so similar to The Standard SpaceX Iva suits it's um almost undistinguishable really from if you just kind of see the two side you know if you don't see them side by side I I don't think I'd be able to pick up on the the subtleties hardly um but some of the cool things like it has a gold visor and and lights and a heads up display it sounds like we could talk for an hour even just about the the changes to the helmet but uh why don't you give me a brief rundown on kind of what that looks like like when does that day night thing does that all happen automatically what's that is it a flippy thing like whatever whatever you can tell me I'll talk about the helmet yeah start there I'll talk about the visor and then pass it off someone else can talk about a different aspect um the visor itself uh it's a copper coating uh and that's to provide uh you know protection like a sunglasses from harmful radiation it's got um uh it uh to protect or to retain the heat uh within the suit itself there's an anti-fog cating as well and it's impact resistance it's actually the only visor that's been uh it's a single layer uh relative to all the other space suits that's been developed um visibility is great um you know one of the questions we've seen on X is like does it impact you know inside the capsule versus you know outside protecting with the sun uh no it does not limit your visibility or Acuity within the capsule um uh and then for us sitting in the seat during the Eva it's it gives us full range of uh visibility uh to execute our jobs as far as you know being the eyes and ears uh for our crew members so it's a really cool visor too yeah maybe maybe going back step to your your broader question um you know we SpaceX obviously started with the Iva suit and we have some great technology there and they said okay now what do we need to change to make a space walk possible and I would say at this P point there is not a part of the suit that has not been modified so while I agree it looks very similar under the hood it's almost entirely different um really like there there's not something at this point that hasn't been Revisited from an architecture perspective and when they started the process they really uh started looking at manufacturing process like how do we build a suit to start with that's more manufacturable and what are the lessons we can learn as part of this that will allow us to someday scale the the suits um so one of the big differences for instance just to start is for our suits they're they're actually um now the entrance and exit is through a waist zipper that goes around the middle within the layers so most of the Iva suits have an inseam zipper and that's your Ingress and egress path um it's now kind of relocated around the middle of the suit um there's a whole different patterning from the inside out for the restraint layer um the structural layers of the suit it's an entirely different Arch architecture to make sure you have mobility in the right spots um I think the joint development was a huge effort as we've talked about a bit um but it's we only have room for one suit on this flight right so you have to design a suit that's both safe for people to be uh seated in seats with restraints over over their shoulders you can't have hard points that would interface with the the straps um and so SpaceX has designed these really really cool joints that when your suit is unpressurized they're soft and flexible and then when the suit pressurizes they actually rigidization in a number of different joints in your wrists and your shoulders and your upper arms that provide you the range of motion you need for you know moving and maneuvering your body um but that that in in of of itself just such a cool addition to the suits to enable this um what else though I mean you've integrated an entire thermal layer into the suit you now have to account for putting a person outside and giving them protection um we have this Pyon felt on the soles of the uh boots that's actually what we use in like our thermal protection system on the spacecraft so there's all sorts of thermal protection that's been added into this suit I think there's parts of it that have like 15 different layers of material at certain points cuz you have all of this mli stacked up inside that's once you're at vacuum then you have you know insulation layers that expand and give you thermal um barrier uh what else yeah oh yeah I would say so like start to start to stop on this um we had to ask the question of how do you add redundancy you know obviously we want to ensure we have as much fault tolerance as possible and uh that kind of goes throughout the suit so um we now have redundant oxygen supply to the suit so if you lose a feed you can stay pressurized get safely back in the spacecraft the architecture of the seats has changed to supply that to crew members and pairs so we can transition if anything were to happen um we have redundant you know visor seals to ensure that stays closed there are redundant check valves in the suits um kind of in every aspect they went through and evaluated how do we ensure fault tolerance to keeping crew safe and executing this with this with this suit architecture um so overall it's been this incredible development effort by the suits team I mean huge shout out to the people that we work with every single day to to test this and work with them because man it's just so inspiring to see what they're doing that's amazing that heads up display then is that um do you interface with that or is it a like a read only type of thing that just kind of gives you a a rundown on what your suit's up to or does it also have Mission stats and stuff like what all is in that heads up display there yeah so I mean right now it gives us a lot of insight into the suit and uh some some system Health uh in like a colorcoded way but I I think basically it's giving us the information that we need to know um about our suit and that it's uh trending well so pressure O2 timers uh relative humidity temperature um but it's not hard to see the direction it's going um right I mean that's this was another like example of leaving on a Friday and coming back Monday and it was like we built a HUD and and it looked super ugly the first weekend like they just wanted to see if it made sense it was like 3D printed and then like you come back a week later and you're like oo they made it look a little nicer and then two weeks later you're like all right it's flight ready it's amazing and uh it's not hard to see where they want to go with this right like I mean this is an area where you can you know interface with augmented reality in the future vehicle checklists um you know it's lasers yeah it's plumbed I mean it it it is like plumbed into the avionics of the vehicle so um the applications for in the future is awesome and I just love how it's like two P two SpaceX Engineers a weekend and a pizza and what they can get done um I know like our background with you know in aviation we've tried to put Huds in fighter jets and it's like a three-year project um SpaceX works on a on a little bit different timeline that's amazing and I think lastly here just remind us here what's the actual as far as the Eva uh you know timeline like what's from hatch opening to hatch closing what how long is that who's how many people are getting to actually poke their heads out and uh yeah just give me the full rundown on the actual Eva itself sure so the Eva operation itself will take about two hours so that includes the time from you the pre the depressurization of the capsule the time outdoors and then the repressurization of the capsule as well um there will be two people going Outdoors it will be Jared and Sarah and then two people supporting them from inside being their eyes and ears kid and myself and are those are they going out simultaneously or is it one and then the other one then the other okay that is good and will will all this be like are you hoping to be able to stream the actual full Eva process and everything we will be yep there will be three main live streams for this Mission the launch the uh re-entry sequence and then the Eva amazing and obviously people will be able to tune in on you know I assume on players do.com or what's the what's the best way I'd go to spacex.com spacex.com and on X it'll be on X there as well yep absolutely and of course you guys are are do you have anything else special planned as far as uh fundraising and things like that anything else that you guys I know you're continuing to work with St Jude Children's Research Hospital anything else planned yep so we continue the the mission to raise funds and awareness for St Jude Children's Research Hospital on this mission striving to add to the $250 million that was raised on inspiration for and continue to to make sure that we are not only moving human space flight forward for our Collective future but taking care of the now here on Earth to make sure make people's lives better here too and so one of the ways we're doing that on this mission is um I actually co-authored a children's book with a woman named Carrie vosik and it was illustrated by Andy hartes and this children's book is going to all of our proceeds are going to St J Children's Research Hospital and um it is the the story of a mama dragon and she Journeys to space and shares it with her baby dragons back here on Earth and it is the story of how love overcomes any distance and I will read this to space to both my kids who are ages three and six as well as some of the Brave patients of St Jude Children's Research Hospital and then that unique space flone copy will also be auctioned off after the mission to benefit St Jude that's amazing that's so cool I mean that has to be one of the coolest things wow okay so and lastly I guess then do we have an actual date do was there a date on the calendar we still just looking at kind of a a rough time frame uh well first I just want to add on we we have uh in kind of furtherance of our important goal to support St Jude there is uh as alluded to earlier we we do have a starlink uh transmission that we've put a lot of thought into um we think is a very um uh very important opportunity to send a message to the world and you you can probably count that St Jude would be part of it so I definitely say uh you know stay tuned when we are on orbit and uh in terms of our our timing I would say um some sometime uh the second half of June is looking uh looking pretty good so that's coming up so quick that is so exciting well guys I know you've got a lot of things going on and probably a million more questions to answer from everybody else uh but on behalf of uh all of us space flight fans I mean this has been been one of those Journeys that's we just can't wait because we know how much hard work has gone on you know behind the scenes and so many little things that are that we don't even know about that you guys have been putting a lot of hard work into um but yeah this is this is incredible so uh we'll be cheering for you and uh I'll hopefully try to make it out there for this launch and and cheer you guys on as you uh as you go up into space it'll be great to see you there and and by the way our thanks back to to you and everyone on your team uh you're you're educating like just millions of people and getting excited about the the future that we all want to live in uh someday it's a it's a really cool thing so uh thanks for all your contributions to it Tim thank you very much that means a lot all right pois Dawn thank you guys so much we'll be cheering for you can't wait for it for it thank you thank you thank you thanks again to the crew of player Stone I just I love talking to them I feel like I always learn something new and exciting so be sure you stay up to date with them on social media or visit their website plis program.com daon and I got to give a quick shout out to all of our supporters if you want to support the work we do headit on over to patreon.com Everyday astronaut that's going to do it for me I'm Tim Dodd the everyday astronaut bringing space down to earth for everyday people [Music]