Breaking Down Corey Lajoie & Kyle Sieg's flips at Michigan

Hello everybody welcome back to another of these uh crash reviews I know I did one about a year ago for the Ryan priest flip where he took off and went through the infield grass for cred ride uh this time we're going over both the Kyle seagra that happened on Saturday and the coiler Joy crash that happened on Monday talking about what happened why these cars got airborne and uh to point out some things I don't think no one's really noticed yet away so here we go so this is the first part of the rack here you see Ki go up right there catches air and lands on his roof right there every obviously F yeah let me actually mute the audio so I can actually get a little bit clearer here grass catches it and it goes for another tumble there now what you're going to notice as we go into this shot this is the most crucial shot if we watch right stop it right there there are no roof flps up on that vehicle that is the reason why this car took off I don't know why there are no roof flaps up on the vehicle I don't know what is hindering them I personally think it might be something the team is doing to manipulate the air around the car I don't know that for certain that's my that's only my guess because I know the teams like to manipulate the air flow with the uh the roof Flaps in order to get air off the spoiler on the straightaways you see it back on the Gen 6 era a lot of the mile and a halfs where they would actually the the roof flaps would lift up a little bit on the straightaways and then it would set down in the corners I don't know how they were doing that I've never de deep dived into something like that they probably something with how they Wick the air but with this right here there's no roof flps I I don't know what happened it goes over I mean you see it right there there's no roof flps up on that car right there I mean I just keep pausing it there's just obviously there are no roof flps up I keep saying that but nobody has noticed there are there's no roof flps on this car just blew over and and terminal velocity for a car going over without a roof flap is I used to hear number 177 but honestly with the way this car turned around having another car driven into it could be as low as 150 I mean it's these cars are designed now aerodynamically to have the roof flaps work so they don't have to worry as much about the underbody being caught but they don't work so if you get spun like this with a car driving in the Saia you're going to go over at a pretty low speed I mean this is this is a pretty slow blowover you know I mean he's not these cars were going at most 180 down that backstretch and the rate he spun at he probably had slowed down in his forward momentum going about 150 if not slower actually something I just noticed look at that you see the track bar bent after you hit the wall it's pretty neat look at that anyway so you know I just don't know it needs to be investigated personally why that car did not have its roof flaps deploy uh they're up there but that's because they've been ground across the ground they half the way actually if you look right there there's something orange in the in where the roof flap sits it's there's some sort of material on the Outer Edge I don't know what that is but there's some something Orange right there I can't let's actually see if we can get a little and they're stuck up now that's actually even weird you see how they're stuck up we should go back to shot when he was sitting down there before um here we go yeah look at that I know the one is apparently damaged but uh they're stuck up and I mean straight up like you you can see that they're they're not really that damaged besides this one here and this one's actually they're designed to be folded like that because of the um or angled at least a little bit uh if we look back here I don't know if that is bent because of it I mean I showed you there though that the roof flaps were not up when he spun see another angle here actually so there he goes yeah no roof flps no roof flaps full 28 you don't see a flip up in the 28 there it's usually where it would be and he just slides along who and I can't I can't see what that yellow orange thing is trying to see if I can get in something yeah see there again no roof laps I look at that look at that thing just unbelievable how that happened and no one's talking about that honestly that is huh just trying to see if we can get some sort of shot where what that orange thing because it almost looks like it's some sort of a tape or something like that some sort of a bright fluorescent orange tape cuz I mean look at that they're just stuck up I mean if you actually look here when that car rolls back over I mean this is violent and these roof laps are just stuck open now I don't something was modified on those or done to I would have to imagine because they were stuck down and then as soon as they went up they are stuck up they don't usually even when there's impacts like that the the roof flaps move around a little bit they don't just they're not just a switch they're on or off you know they they flap up and they land back down what usually happens is there's a fabric that attaches to the bottom side of where they hinge up from and the underside of it to basically it's it's the uh oh what think it called what what's the word I'm looking for the a tether to to keep the roof flap from over hinging or pull it back down the only thing is is if it goes all the way up then goes back down it it won't fold back in under the roof flap it'll fold out and it'll keep it up actually a little bit is not optimal so they'll have to bring it back in and they and you'll used to see this back in the day they would lift the roof flap up and tuck it back in under the the roof flap and set it back in place now this one is the only angle we have out of it and I have so much to say about what the theories are with this so we'll just watch it first turns catches airborne right on his side I I don't even know what to think of this is I I mean the theories that have wrapped around with this first off people said wind I don't think it was wind and the reason why I do not think it is wind is because here the roof flaps go up terminal speed to have roof flaps not work at is 197 miles hour that has been a rule of thumb for as long as we've raced with them on the car since 1994 when Jack Rous invented them n 197 is terminal velocity okay so why does this car go over and you say well it's the wind speed because of the way the the wind was coming directly at the car uh with how windy that was at the track he was probably going in Wind 220 230 milph because you had 190 to it so on and so forth he was at most at this point going 190 uh remember this is earlier on the straightaway coming off the corner so he's probably going more like 187 188 and these things matter a little bit I know it's we'll round out the 190 for the sake of of pleasure of this Theory you have to remember that when he spins he's going he's coming at the camera now he is coming this way with the way of my cursor right he's not going full 190 this Direction all right it it's a vector you know if you've gone through physics in school you know with vectors you know he could be going 197 this way but now he's going this way and this way and you know ex obviously his resultant is going to be wherever the car is pointing right so his total this way trajectory let's let's call that X for SE this x trajectory the one that needs to be achieved in order to reach it it might only be at this point with the way he's coming at the camera and how hard he's turned off also the fact he is slowing he's already dissipating I'd say he's probably already down the one 80 here in just to terms of total speed I would knock another 20 miles an hour off of it because he's already moved from one car length off the top of the track to or car width to this white line in about a half second that's probably at least what 50 feet in a half second see 100 ft per second so Michigan is 7 3 ft wide in the corners I'm just going to say for sake of it he moved 50 ft let's just say I like I said for 50 ft he moved 50 feet from the top to where he is right now in about half a second well that's 100 feet per second which if you translate 100 feet per second it's 68 mil an hour so 68 M an hour of his total 188 is going towards the camera which means he's only going in the other direction 130 120 and now let's it's probably this this is being maybe a little over generous with the miles per hour coming at us let's say it's more like I don't know 40 m an hour that's still 150 the wind speed you would need at 30 mil an hour 30 m an hour wind gust would only get that up to about 180 to overcome the roof roof flps so it didn't overcome the roof flps if we do just that theory it's not the wind it is not the wind contributing to this what is contributing to this is what we're going to be looking at in about a second this this giant underbody and I know people are say well it's you know is is it really contributing to it so on so forth this channel here this channel here and this channel here back not really it's not a channel just where they can catch and get under it are heavily contributing to this car going over as long as it gets a tiny bit of air under it this thing goes from acting as an underwing to acting as an actual Wing 80% of this car's downforce according to the GM representative that was on the D download a couple years ago said 80% of this car's downforce is generated from the underside body panel so if that's the case if you reverse the effects of this or or even with it going through the air let's just say and it no longer working the car loses four fifths of of its down Force going forward so only 20% of the car's actual downforce is working to keep it on the ground even if we sliding like this and it might not even be working to keep it on the ground obviously is working very well here I the wind speed thing I just it doesn't make sense I don't you can't it seems like a really easy way to just say because if you just dump it down say well it's just adding 30 mph to 190 again the car is coming at us and you're also assuming that it's 30 mph steady at the car right it's gusting right maybe it gusted right in that moment it gusted right at the moment he spun also it needs to be at surface 30 m hour it can't be 30 m hour up in the air you know have you ever laid on the ground and felt the air at 30 m hour you know these cars are only at roof height what 4 feet I don't know the actual height of a cup car right now but the actual place where the air can get under the car is ground level the wind needs to be an inch off the ground 30 mph to back up what I said just a minute ago this car's takeoff speed is drastically lower because of the underwing on this car watch brisco's crash here from a couple years ago this is that Daytona he spins he hits the wall he loses a ton of speed right here he's getting pushed into yeah still getting pushed but he's he is I mean if you look how fast lano's pulling away from him here you know lano's probably already slowed to about I would say 185 here probably maybe even slower than that he's put that much this I say brisco's probably going 130 140 here directly at us conservatively look how much that car gets air right like that wa watch it watch the inlet inlets right here wh I mean that thing got look how much air that car got at one point I mean it's at least a yard off the ground and then the roof flps here actually work and set it back down I just don't see how we can keep ignoring the fact that this underwing is causing these flips I I I'm not saying we need to slow the cars down I understand that Hamlin and I think even Dale Jr said it where it's much better to have the car flip like it did then have just Pace the inside wall I do agree I just worry about Rex where cars blow over in the pack and they're upside down you know it's one thing to say I'd rather flip fly flip over than hit the wall hard it's another to have a guy legitimately almost take off when he shouldn't be taking off like Brisco should not be blowing over here I there is no there there's no reason he should be getting this much air right here there's just there's just no reason he's not going fast enough he's already hit the wall somewhere else he's going 130 miles an hour here's Harrison Burton flip from a couple years ago um just really quickly look at it here I mean this is this is very similar to what we just had whoop it's not as quick because he's not going as fast uh but you know he's still going I would say probably about 150 160 and the car takes over takes off the same exact way I mean almost identically the same way as uh priest's he actually or not priest's sorry as the joys now I know they added the rear window deflector on the car I don't think that's going to help much if at all the car is not getting the lift per se from the actual cockpit here the cockpits sealed you know maybe from here and and and and here may you know I just don't see it see the car getting it the car is getting lift from this whole thing right here look at this right there look at how look at the car how much air it can get under there lastly we'll look at priest's crash again I mean this is very similar as well to how he gets hooked through the grass like uh like Mr Joy did earlier this week I mean he goes through and I mean just takes off watch he's going to catch air just right there I mean look that whole I pointed that out in the last year when I reviewed this that whole side is just the thing picking up the car look I mean the thing's flying on the on the underpan and this is the thing I worry about with the cars flipping is just how violent this flip was this is what hurt him more than anything else and the car I mean did a good job holding together besides the window net coming undone like I mentioned last year and they haven't addressed really but I just you know they can pave as much grass as they want it's not going to stop the underwing picking these cars up off the ground uh you know I'm not against them Paving grass it's just that's not fixing this fixing this is uh in my opinion it's getting rid of the underpan