Trump's veteran 'misfire' is a massive fail for his campaign

I'm not a political strategist but I would have thought trash talking as they say here uh veterans dead veterans uh people who are honored uh here in the US is not necessarily a particularly wise political strategy let's go to America now Donald Trump May yet face prosecution despite a wide ranging immunity ruling by the Supreme Court the former president's been hit with a new indictment for allegedly seeking to subvert the 2020 election uh we can talk to David Charter who is the US assistant editor for the times uh David I'm sure an awful lot of people listening to that introduction there will think haven't I heard this before where are we at with this story today what's new about this right so what had to happen uh was that the this astonishing Supreme Court ruling this very wide ranging decision they made on immunity for American Presidents uh had to be uh taken account of by the uh by the uh prosec in in the case Jack Smith the special counsel um because of course Trump's side uh were seeking to have all the cases against him thrown out saying that uh he's allowed uh to carry out actions such as uh leaning on his justice department uh to carry out investigations into the election and to uh try and uh suggest to uh the the the the swing states that uh there was such a lot of frauds that they should have uh a slate uh of electors chosen to represent Trump rather than Biden who was who was the winner and the these go to the heart of the case so what Jack Smith has tried to do in this new indictment that's been published this week uh is to make his charges stick basically he's seen his case uh his federal case for Trump retaining classified documents thrown out by a court and he doesn't want this one thrown out as well uh so he slimmed down the indictment uh quite a lot uh he's taken out all of the charges uh all of the allegations I should say relating uh to Trump's pressure on the Department of Justice to intervene uh and to lean on the states and to carry out investigations all of that been removed and what remains is really allegations against uh Trump they're emphasizing it as a candidate rather than as acting the president uh Jack Smith is saying he was acting as a candidate seeking to overturn the election that he lost and that's important because uh as we know uh this US Supreme Court ruling gave the presumption of immunity uh for all the core actions of a president while still in office which Trump was you know come uh January the 6th so that's the important thing that we should hang on to then the fact that uh the presidential privilege is being challenged and therefore the charges might stick because this blanket of immunity would have been removed yeah the the presidential privilege um was gave the presumption of immunity for all core actions no G sorry it g it gave it gave absolute immunity for all the core actions of a president and it gave the presumption of immunity for all the other actions that a president takes while he's president um and so Jack Smith has to get round this so as I say he's emphasizing that Trump was acting as a candidate and when he's talking about his pressure on Mike Pence the vice president to throw out the results from the swing states that Biden won which was the core of what was happening on January the 6th 2021 he's emphasizing that Mike Mike Pence in his role as running mate rather than his role as vice president uh and the indictment has been totally redrawn to emphasize uh the the role of people who are in government so the the the senior Justice official who was helping Trump put pressure on States uh all that his role has been removed from the indictment he was down as a co-conspirator and instead uh it's uh relying on the efforts of people who were out in the states who were if you if you know the details of the case they were try they were putting together a whole slate uh of Republicans to represent that state St in the formal vote counting rather than putting together a slate of Democrats to represent Biden and so it's that part of the indictment that is staying and now of course it's up to a judge to assess uh whether Trump can be um tried and convicted uh based on uh his role as candidate even though he was still president it's a very difficult Balancing Act and it's a very it's going to it's we're in Uncharted Waters but I think as you were suggesting at the top uh the upshot of it all is it's so complicated uh that we're just not going to see this in court before the election yeah uh which is which was the original um idea I think was to get it out of the way before the election now it's we're of course we're into what uh less than 80 days before the election it's just not going to happen right and in the meantime I mean obviously Trump is out there uh doing stuff he's been on a visit to Arlington hasn't he and and actually hasn't that gone a little bit wrong today David so yes much was made of this by the Trump campaign because he was invited to Arlington by the families of the 13 service members who were killed in Afghanistan during the withdrawal that was on the anniversary on Mondays what's emerged is that there was some kind of altercation between the Trump people and a member of the Arling staff about filming in a restricted area so there's a very sensitive part of Arlington called section 60 which is where recently deceased service members are buried and that's not to be used for political purposes uh in uh any any filming or performance or uh event and of course the Trump team were doing that and and a member of Arlington staff seems to have tried to intervene and got into some sort of tussle Arlington isn't saying very much about it's only emerged through an NPR report that's a national public radio here and the Trump team has said well there was uh one person who seemed to be mentally ill who was trying to um intervene in in our in our event when we were invited there uh so at the moment it's a he said he said sort of situation uh but there does seem to been some sort of kafuffle and it just seems that at the moment we're in a phase where Trump just can't get anything right in this election since kamla Harris emerged he's been trying any which way to land a blow and of course this was to be weaponized if you like uh this Afghanistan withdrawal anniversary to try and remind people that the Biden Harris administration had made a a big old mess of withdrawing from Afghanistan to try and score political points but again it's in danger being overshadowed and misfiring and of course it would just show the most Dreadful lack of respect though David were it to be ascertained for sure that Trump's team have been trampling over such a place of grief I'm excited because it's Camila Harris's first TV interview and there are two really interesting things here which I think are worth discussing the first is who she chose to be interviewed by you know we've had this big um discussion about the debate with Trump but choosing who does her first interview is a big issue and also she's taking the vice president uh candidate so talk us through those two bits well first of all K har hasn't given an interview to the to the the press that the the networks in the now I think it's 38 days since she became the Democratic candidate she's becoming a lot of pressure for that she's not talking to the Press people say she's not opening herself up to scrutiny so tonight for the first time we uh we see her on TV uh she's doing an interview with CNN which I think uh your listeners probably Weare that CNN is quite a liberal broadcaster in the state he's got a reputation been very tough on Trump perhaps a bit less tough on uh on the Democrats and so straight away the Republicans and Trump's campaign have said you know she's going for a softball interview she's going to get easy questions uh and she's not going to be really challenged on the things that Americans want to know her policies and and what she'll do as president and the other sort of slightly controversial aspect I suppose is that she's taking along Tim Waltz the uh her running mate the guy who's going to be vice president if she wins in November uh again you know the accusation there from the Republicans is that she needs a babysitter um to uh to help her along with the with some of the more difficult questions when she's asked them later on yeah and I think there's some Merit in that I mean she may say that she's kind of introducing the ticket but it does seem odd to have the vice president the the actual interview of Dana Bash I mean she's very well known she was presumably one of these multi-million dollar uh political uh interviewers that the Americans pay so much money to but tell me a bit about her in terms of how she's likely to approach this interview well I me she's also very professional broadcaster as well and I'm sure that she will uh ask the tough question Donna bash is is is is very experienced she's done presidential debates before she's uh broadcast from around the world but it is true that unlike in the UK where our broadcasters are uh by partisan that they're neutral in America those rules don't exist and you have broadcasters who who who lean to the to the left as people say that CNN does and others that that that lean to the right as well and they say it's not any surprise that Comm Harris who's been in negotiations with the broadcaster for some time now about when she does an interview who she does it with and as you just alluded to there who the interviewer is um it's not really a surprise that she's she's plucked uh CNN out the air and and dar bash has been picked to be the interviewer now look uh I don't know how impartial I meant to be but obviously I think Donald Trump is pretty extraordinary figure as in Gastly um but even he I don't think I mean this photo shoot at Arlington Cemetery he had himself photog graft at the grave site well it was a wre laying ceremony uh but it was by the graves of 13 US servicemen and women killed in the 2021 suicide bomb attack outside Carbell airport of course it was three years in fact we marked it on the program by doing a big thing about uh women's rights in Afghanistan it's three years since the Americans pulled out so it's obviously designed to remind the American people uh about the chaotic withdrawal which happened under President Biden Biden even though the withdrawal was signed by Trump but he's there with his sort of Thumbs Up by somebody's grave and now there are reports that some of his team were incredibly rude shoved and verly abused an employee uh during the photo shoot tell us about this story and tell us as well kind of how big is it playing it's kind of remarkable story really as you say it's three years since the the withdrawal from Afghanistan uh when the Marines or mostly Marine MERS of the Marine Court were were killed um Donald Trump marked that on Monday by you say going going to Arlington Cemetery and for I think pretty much your list aware Arlington Cemetery is is is a site just outside Washington DC where uh lots of American wed are buried there are thought to be about 400,000 uh Graves at Arlington he turned up there on Monday tomor this this occasion obviously I think making a political point that the the withdraw been a bit disastrous and the Biden Administration hadn't really uh understood the speed with which the Taliban was taking control in Afghanistan again he stood there as you say over over a grave with his his trademark thumbs up sign um and and what one or two of the Arlington staff I think uh pointed out that there are rules as to how you conduct yourself in Arlington and one of those is that you're not allowed to take photographs or or shoot video um uh at uh at the grave sites especially those more recent ones um uh this meant that TR Trump's people were challenged and they pushed back now Trump's campaign absolutely denies there's any physical uh confrontation uh just a verbal one uh Arlington isn't really commenting but sources to various Us Media which are picking this up and it's playing it's playing very hard here saying that there was a physical tication I mean I can't I mean I can't understand how Trump gets away with it I mean he he trashed John McCain as a loser for being captured by the Viet Kong even though he enjoed five years of captivity and torture he's trashes people who die in war as as losers veterans are so important to the American psyche how does he get away with it it's he's got his grip over the Republican party uh and I mean he famously said in 2016 that he could stand on Fifth Avenue in New York and shoot someone and he wouldn't lose any votes I mean there is there is Merit to that comment he uh he gets away with a lot uh he's obviously a convicted felon now um uh he's someone who who has his core of support now you know I'm not a political strategist but I would have thought trash talking as they say here uh veterans dead veterans uh people who are honored uh here in the US is not necessarily a particularly wise political strategy but what Donald Trump was trying to point out is that these uh these these uh killed US soldiers uh are dead because of Joe Biden his policies and by extension to K Harris and that as president he would withdraw America from from Foreign Wars I think that was the point he was trying to make um you know you're the politician you're the politician I can just uh I can just about discern the political point that he was trying to make I noticed that that Harris has been campaigning in the state of Georgia this week and also noticed that there's been some some action in the courts there where some on the Democratic side are worried about well Republicans Trump supporters in key positions when it comes to monitoring and certifying election results working against Cara Harris using that position to maybe they fear they suggest overturn a win for Cara Harris are you worried about that well I mean I think anybody should be worried about that I mean this is a you know on the other side right you have you have the you know vice president Harris's vision of the future taking us forward you have um Donald Trump on the other side and his vision of taking us backward and that includes un undoing our democracy uh tearing apart key pieces of it I mean that he still claims somehow that he won the 2020 election which he actually lost by millions of votes and was certified in state after State um and his 2025 uh his project 2025 blueprint um includes among other things uh promises to continue to undermine the Democracy um make himself a dictator uh uh on day one um undo checks and balances uh and and effectively um undermine the very foundations of democracy that is a a a real and serious threat and it's something that of course many people are taking very seriously um there are many lawyers who have been engaged to make sure that that does not happen um and that voters have their votes counted and can rely on that being the case yeah I imagine I imagine that's going to be a theme of the the coming TV debates as well interesting to see where the balance is struck between warning of Donald Trump as a threat to democracy and just just mocking him making making fun of him we'll see the way that the K Harris plays that I'm going to just a question a story that's been breaking pretty much while we' we've been talking it's in a sense it's probably a question you're going to welcome as a as a Democrat but it's an interesting one I mean Donald Trump was in Arlington National Cemetery a couple of of days ago uh which is well it's it's a revered a revered Cemetery for for military American veterans and Donald Trump was pictured there smiling with his thumb up in that campaign style criticized for that for that demeanor and there was a bit of an argument we know this between Trump staff and some of the Army on duty at Arlington they told him this has got to be a place the Army Personnel said you don't campaign in Arlington and there was a bit of an argument and now the US Army if you you're aware of this has rebuked of the Trump campaign do you think that will hurt Donald Trump because some of these questions about Trump's relationship to the military his attitude to the military predate the arrival of Cara Harris and he was still strong in the polls then would it matter this argument do you think well I the answer John is I I had seen that um but I certainly hope so um you know this as you're well aware this is a a pattern of outrageous behavior that certainly did not begin uh with this event and will not end with it either I mean I'm old enough to remember uh during his first campaign when uh talking about Senator John McCain who had been the Republican nominee for president as we all remember um and was uh a heroic had heroic service in the Vietnam war that included many years of being a political prisoner um during which he was tortured um Donald Trump said he liked people who don't get captured I mean that to me Still Remains one of the most stunning um and cruel things I have ever heard a political candidate say and that was about a member of his own political party and and I just think that's an indication um of the many ways over many years that that former president Trump um has just sort of manifested himself as as the vice president said as an unserious man um and in all these other ways that we've been discussing whether it's our democracy whether it's a National Abortion ban and overturning Row versus Wade um it has demonstrated his unfitness um the the fact that that you know it he presents a vision of of the of this country that would take us backward and really undermine key essential rights freedoms uh and traditions say it's going to be a big moment Dave isn't it you'll be rooting for Carl Harris I've no doubt but it's going to be a big moment maybe a big test when Harrison Tim W sits down with uh with CNN with with Donna Donna bash for That interview which is a risk I mean she has been only by a bit but she's the front runner it seems in the polls just at the moment which carries its own its own risks and there are going to be bear traps to be negotiated in a few hours well I you know I think what I would say is the you know the vice president has done I believe something like 80 interviews this year um and uh you know the the the vice the president the vice presidential candidate doing a sitdown interview after the the convention that's pretty standard practice uh and so I think the you know I've seen this I got to see this up close in personal the vice president is really good uh and I think the whole country has seen that she is really good at explaining what she wants to do and why she's an incredibly spelling uh compelling candidate she's an incredibly compelling speaker uh and and I I expect you know this interview this evening to be no different uh and for her to really clearly lay out the contrast in the selection and yet she has something of a reputation for being a little bit uncertain put it that way when it comes to speaking on promptu without a without an auto CU without a a script to work from when it comes to speaking off the cuff that is that is a part of our reputation you can't deny that Dave can you H I guess my answer to that is you know one of there were many things that I've been asked uh when I was working for her and even since then um uh and sort of speculations about the vice president I I would say you know the whole country and the whole world frankly has had a chance to watch the Vice President in front of the brightest of lights over the past whatever this has been six weeks um and look at her performance look at what she has done and this has not just been unscripted uh speeches which I in my opinion she has knocked out of the park uh to use an American expression um she has been absolutely incredible in Her speech last Thursday uh was there for in Chicago at the Democratic National Convention was incredible but she's also been so good uh in every other format I mean I I I I just think I had been telling people all along that the vice president was an extraordinary vice president uh and would be it someday an extraordinary presidential candidate and president and I think that's what we've seen over the past six weeks okay you being very very supportive and I completely get that I can see where that where that support is coming from where where you're concerned but I mean will you concede maybe that your heart's going to be be just a little bit in your mouth when you faces tough questioning because there will be tough questioning from CNN on such things as oh I don't know price controls controlling grocery grocery store prices she hasn't explained how that's going to work or or limiting the terms on which Supreme Court justices serve she said to have given such an undertaking private hasn't been asked about that yet these things have got there potential there to come unstuck well and and look you're absolutely right that they're going going to be tough serious questions um but I think what I would say is the vice president is uniquely well suited to answer them so I'm I'm not nervous at all I'm excited I mean the vice president has been I mean I say she's been under the brightest of lights for the past six weeks the truth is she's been under the brightest of Lights uh for the past four years and and even before that I mean she was a senator from the largest state in America and and that State Attorney General before that I mean this is somebody who is as well tested as well seasoned and as and has proven a leader uh on really every one of these issues as anybody in America and I think that is why I'm excited to see her uh describe what it is that she wants to do as president why she's running um and hear from you know the hopefully next vice president in Tim Walls as well I really think that the two of them offer such a compelling vision for what this country can be how it can support the middle class how it can protect and expand people's rights and freedoms and that I think is what people are responding to and hungry for where where Cara Harris has shifted her position because she she has since running for the nomination back in 2020 to becoming the vice the vice president under Joe Biden and then softening some positions here and there maybe moving more towards the center she has become let's use the word flexible she's compromised what does that mean for you does that mean that she's I know willing to give way on principle does it mean that she's practical how would you describe it well I I mean look I think that it's interesting um I'm not sure that I can agree with your characterization in part because uh you know for example the her work on housing uh reducing housing costs and helping people purchase homes um that was one of the center pieces of her economic remarks a couple weeks ago that's an issue that she's been working on for uh the better part of 15 plus years I mean when she was Attorney General of California um she stood up to the big Banks during the mortgage crisis here here in the United States uh and worked on a homeowner's Bill of Rights and so you know that to me is actually completely in keeping with who she has been as a leader in Poli office um and completely in keeping as she mentioned herself with her family's history growing up in a workingclass neighborhood uh in Oakland California with a working mother who raised her and her sister um and had to save and scrimp to to purchase a home finally after being a she is willing she is willing to compromise on Prin principle where required um I wouldn't say that she's willing to compromise on her principles at all I mean I think her principles have been uh absolutely clear and consistent um since she entered politics many years ago you know I think that the the truth is that policy is big and complicated um and you know that she's you know it depends sort of who's in Congress who's in the house who's in the Senate what are the possibilities for passing uh legislation and securing the votes that you need I'll note here she has set the record in American history for number of tiebreaking votes cast in the Senate um so certainly I I think you could argue fairly she's the vice president who's responsible for the most uh policy achievements um arguably in American history yeah and so I think that that's that's sort of what I think about when you ask about her principles they've always uh stayed true and stayed the same you can go back to her remarks when she was a district attorney of San Francisco and see that I think the question is just the you know we know the why so the question is how okay I'm well I'm guessing there will be questions to come on the the solidity of that of those convictions