Wharton & NFL: Global Brands and Global Fans – Wharton Global Forum São Paulo

it's of course great to be back up here and you might wonder why is the AI and analytics guy back up here talking about brands in the NFL um but of course people forget that my Day-Day job is I am the chair of Wharton's marketing department I do a lot of work on branding um as I was telling Garrett uh beforehand I spent 5 years working for the Eagles in the NFL building their build a little bit there we go building their data science group and of course I know a little bit about the Wharton School and of course a little promotion here for those of you that love statistics and sports like I do you can tune in every week through your podcast SiriusXM as well at w Moneyball Wharton Moneyball is our 10-year running every week radio show talking about statistics and sports so that's why I'm here but you might also wonder what do the NFL and the Wharton School have to do with each other well actually there's a lot of things besides we've been doing educational programs for the NFL for a large number of years I think we'd all agree in their respective Industries it's they're so far the number one brand so let's start there that's easy right I think number two you could also Imagine ardan and the NL get many opportunities to extend their brand and I would think one of the biggest responsibilities of both of them is to be very protective of the brand so we're going to talk about that as well and the third part is of course they're both truly International organizations and so how do they think about International expansion so I'm really excited to be up here to interview our Dean Erica James and Garrett Meyer from the NFL so Garrett let me start with you um according to the notes given to me and also my chat GPT research you've run Brands like Red Bull I can't believe this one something from my CH the WWE iHeart Radio so what have you learned from running those Brands is it just whatever you learned there can be applied to the NFL what's the same and what's different oh first of all uh thank you for having me uh really appreciate the opportunity to be part of this uh bomia uh Brazil is really becoming a really big part for the NFL so very very up propo to be here and the Eagles reference obviously for the game also September 6th right here little plug Shameless plug but back to your question uh a little bit of of all of it uh there's a lot of new learning uh as you go through these various stages and companies U but there's also a lot of similarities and the similarities for me at least the way I kind of look back at all these opportunities were about building communities um around the world locally regionally internationally um what gets people interested why should they care relevance uh driving awareness driving education um you mention ihart radio which you know back in the day and still very much right now is a domestic product for the United States uh but it went from terrestrial to digital so how do you translate an audio brand into a audio visual photo text video brand um that can now be uh consumed in many many different ways we're talking now already like 20 years back when when ihart was created so uh it was a very very big shift about creating communities uh that already know the brands the individual Brands was not hard rated individual Brands is the kissfm the Z100 Etc and uh and then the same with Red Bull Red Bull you have a lot of Niche Sports uh Red Bull is known for activating across a lot of sports um that are not so well known uh it's always about giving Wings to people in ideas right that's the slogan for Red Bull and that's uh very true as you look at the sports and the athletes that they have been supporting their entire uh existence and so how do you create communities you know around that and and WWE since you mentioned it um actually is probably the the most comparable in a funny round way so it's a it's inherently a media product around the world uh it is built around Live Events very much the same but you're not telling me the NFL is fake uh it's all scripted we came clean last year scripted like we came last year we came with with the NFL we came clean last year we said it was all scripted when we can't know it's uh it's uh there's a lot of similarities on on the storytelling you know uh about the characters uh about the consumption about the fandom merchandise everything you kind of think about that makes a brand a brand in the end so you know it kind of carried over as I came to the NFL about having having a conversation about the ambition to go broader internationally what that could look like what that would entail the ambition of being a broader and and more recognized brand and Sport internationally is not new to the NFL that didn't start last year uh that's been going on for decades the commitment to International has been around for a long long time so what is different now that would actually allow us to do and and again it comes back to what communities can we create around the world that maybe not inherently are uh starting with football in their life who didn't grow up with the game who didn't maybe grow up uh with any kind of connectivity to specific teams so the the way you build fandom in the US around football or also other sports is very very different than internationally so so a lot of the themes to your point uh repeat themselves throughout so let me ask you've obviously led many institutions certainly you came to us from Emory University prior to this is the Wharton brand just different like how do you think about your leadership at other institutions and how it's translated in my mind I think everyone here so well to the Wharton School the Wharton brand is different because it is the world's first business school and so when you start with the Legacy and like that then you know you have to preserve the brand you have to preserve the reputation more than anything else so people often ask me what is the thing that I that keeps me up at night what I worry most about it is the reputation so what makes the Wharton brand different first of all we have a tremendous faculty both in terms of scope of the research that they do we have 10 academic disciplinary departments within a single business school including things like ethics and legal studies and real estate and Healthcare which are not found in most other business schools so we can offer more to the world than than many other business schools so that's one point of differentiation another is because of the brand because of the longevity of the school we are known throughout not only North America but South America Europe Asia we have a tremendous powerful Network an Alumni network in all of those places so we're able to leverage the fact that we were the first we are the biggest arguably the best business school in the world you move the word arguably are we are the best business School in the world and that continues to feed on itself so I think from that respect it's very difficult for other business schools to compete with the brand that the won brand has so Garrett let me follow up on that so we're here in s Paulo in Brazil um matter of fact we were talking I think I named I missed Frankford but you've been the NFL internationally today I think has been in England of course and London you've been in Germany and I guess Frankfurt and Munich you've been in Mexico City why Brazil like I'm sure many people here were thankful for Brazil but there are wealthier countries from A GDP perspective in the world why did the NFL predict uh pick Brazil as its next launching point so again just a little bit you know going back a little bit more so to to what we talked about earlier that the ambition has been around for a long time so if you want to list all the countries it's a much longer list if you include exhibition games uh practice games that have happened over the decades as part of various activations that the NFL has been doing around around the world uh including an actual dedicated League NFL Europe way back uh with dedicated teams that were all kind of run out of the NFL uh with its own franchise in the country so again how we think about countries has evolved um what you're referencing now the Germany games the London Games the Mexico games and now the sa Paulo game those are regular season games so where we trying to differentiate ourselves already is we're taking the real deal internationally um in some cases for other leagues that's just not possible but by the way they're set up but for us it was very very important that when we go somewhere the fans in that market have the opportunity to experience the way you would experience in the US so every game we were talking about including the Brazil games those are regular season games uh at the moment until this year we have an ownership resolution that allows us to go up to four regular season games um Jacksonville jagers always do an additional kind of game on their own at Wembley Stadium on top so that's kind of the fifth game when people talk about five games but starting next year through the ownership vote that we had last December at our annual meeting uh we can go up to eight games next year so last year we really started thinking said okay we have a commitment to London uh because of our investment at the spur stadium in in London uh that's two games a year we've have been uh seeing a lot of great success since our first game in Germany two years ago so it was Munich last year was Frankfurt we're going back to Munich this year Mexico has always been you know a great great City for us uh right now we're taking a pause there because the stadium is is is in renovation for the World Cup coming to North America so then we were like okay but if we go up to eight what other Market should we be looking at and on the top of the list was Brazil and uh it actually has nothing really to do with how rich the country is or necessarily how big the countries it's about some of the kind of underlying fundamentals and the the first one is we have an existing fan base of 36 million fans in Brazil for the for the game for the NFL uh and and many many of them are Avid fans they follow the game they watch The League um so for us as we kind of looked around what would be a natural market for us to kind of go to uh it was all about seeing whether Brazil would reciprocate to us because it goes to ways to host a game in a country is goes way way beyond the game itself uh when we do a game uh it is always in the context of something larger so for us it's not just we're doing the game and then that was it we're going to open up the NFL Brazil office uh this year in conjunction with the game we're going to have dedicated resources and a team here we activate year round uh a lot of times the conversation very quickly focuses on the game but it's much more than the game we activate throughout we are driving participation everything else so we're looking at all of that and Brazil very very easily comes out as one of the top countries there's others we're going to uh we already announced that next year we're going to Spain for the first time uh playing a game at Madrid I'm sure the Brazilians here are happy you came here first before [Laughter] Spain and so we keep exploring we have we have an ambition that drives us to become a global Sports property that means we have to go into many many more countries play a lot more uh games but looking at Brazil and the feasibility of Brazil which is never easy there's a lot of work that was into a lot of people involved uh so we're very excited that this is now actually happening about you know soon after we actually announced it so this is wonderful for me sitting up here as the moderator if you'd like we're only on the second question and I think you can already see the parallels you can imagine the question I'm going to ask my Dean Erica James is why did Wharton choose sa Paulo and Brazil to be the location of the Forum but already you can see why we're all together up here on stage ericho why sa Pao why did it make sense from a strategy point of view from the Wharton School for of the same reasons we have a tremendous alumni base here I think in Brazil alone we have over 500 alumni so we have a fan base to use that language already and we can leverage that fan base to attract more people one of the other things is Brazil is a fast growing country and there are a lot of young people and we develop the future generation of young people and so the thing that allowed us to really claim Brazil as the next location for us is we brought our Global youth program here created an opportunity for our parents who are alumni of the Wharton School to bring their children their next Generation to a forum experience Wharton we taught them some uh fundamental classes on entrepreneurship and Innovation this weekend and that then is creating the next generation of Wharton alumni potentially Wharton students Wharton alumni and so it this is a market for us that has been loyal committed excited enthusiastic and is growing and so we wanted to show our appreciation to the Brazil Community by by bringing Wharton here and and I think you would agree similar to Garrett's answer um like we're leaving sort of but we're not leaving like this like people like to focus on the games but it's a year round work that we're going to be doing it's a year round but it's it's an investment in that respect right we want to continue to build and and and pour into Brazil knowing that Brazil will also continue to pour in to the Wharton School but also to the NFL hopefully yeah and it it has a lot for us at least has a lot to do also with you know the way we got embraced when we started talking to the country and then we started looking at the various cities um again that's part of a process that we do with with different countries and um you know everyone in Brazil the passion um the kind of commitment the way everyone was immediately leaning in understanding the way we were thinking about it but also the other way around what we need to learn right so when we come to a market obviously we come with an inherently American product the game again it's a real regular season game so there's a lot of things that are non-negotiable but then everything else around it is something that we want to learn from the country we want to learn from the region we want to understand how we create that relevance and the way especially sou Paulo when we when we did the announcement and as tourist who the the tourism Board of sa Paulo and the mayor Nunes here everyone everyone uh has committed rights from the beginning we're seeing it on a daily basis especially now that we're ramping up with uh only three months to go um that that is very very unique and and that just confirms our decision to kind of come here well Garrett you're your response to that or to respond to Erica's response uh I'm going to skip orders of questions in my own mind because you made me think of something you know the classic thing about Brands they say is be Global but be local so how do you think about adapting what your you're doing to the NFL here given the Eagles uh Packers game coming up on Friday September 6th um how do we how do you think about making it still the global NFL but being local to what the fans and the people expect here in s Paulo it starts with a the small things and goes all the way to kind of the larger things so the Small Things is you will see and everything from the design of uh that we using the the the The Branding the activations that come not just around the stadium also within the city the fan activations again it's going to go on over an extended period of time but it goes broader every country again we're just starting now but if I can maybe use Germany as a case study where for two two years ago we had our first game since then we've seen significant investment in infrastructure since then we've seen the economic benefit that goes to the city in which we play the games and then stay so we just recently announced that uh um the city of dorf where NFL Germany is hous in Germany uh as a city has committed to infrastructure play on flag football infrastructure um to get more younger boys and young girls to kind of play the game and get into football um we see government commitments to get the sport uh into uh the schools uh we work uh with uh the governments and the municipalities to work on healthy eating and and other learning and education um those are all things that go year year round so in the end we all hope that economic benefit will come out for everything and you know the first uh Munich game generated for the uh city of Munich around 70 million euros uh for Frankfurt where we had backto back games two games who we stayed longer was an economic benefit of about € 110 million euros um so there is measurable benefit to the city and to the region but what we really believe in is the long-term sustainable growth of the game and what it does to the youth population in that market and that's what we're also seeing from the club so then kind of committing so in the conversation that we're having currently with you know the Eagles and the Packers and how they're thinking about how they will activate here how they will kind of communicate to the region all of that is kind of like how you adopt to the local locality of of an individual Market yeah Erica how do you think about that as well because I imagine in your own mind there's some Bedrock principles of the Wharton School that it doesn't matter where we are in the world but you can imagine other things more of a tactical nature that could change locally how do you think about that as Wharton as you travel the world and represent our school and think about also how do we deliver education that's valuable both globally and locally yeah it's a really important so in 1983 Wharton made a pretty significant investment in global education through the Lauder Institute which combines business education with the MBA and international relations through an a master's degree in uh International Studies we did the same thing a few years later with their undergraduate program so that was Wharton's commitment to making sure that the generation of leaders that are within our scope are experiencing Global understanding Global cultural awareness Etc as we prepare them for a global world we recognize that those students are coming to us from discret countries and we then also have to learn about those countries because we're bringing them into our community and so we Leverage The insights and the perspectives and the experiences from students who come to us from Brazil or students who come to us from Latin from from Argentina or from a country in Europe and we learn and include those insights and those perspectives into the conversations and discussions that happen in the classroom so everyone benefits from the cultural awareness that is Created from the Wharton classroom experience yeah I think the other thing even just when I've looked at the topics list for this forum I was saying there are some that are obviously so relevant to this country and I give you and your team such credit for identifying ones that are of broad interest but also locally there now obviously Garrett and and Erica you you can imagine say now I have to go back I am the data science guy so I have to ask a question about measurement which is how do you measure success of an NFL game how obviously I'm going to ask you how you measure success of the Forum I mean one kind of if you asked a mathematician who doesn't know really anything else but that I would say you have a bunch of measures before you have some events you got some set of measures after you got after minus before and there you go but how forget what I think no one in this audience wants to hear me talk what do you think how do you measure what does success look like Eric you want to go first what does success of the Forum look like to you so first of all I am a uh management person I'm a psychologist by training so feelings and emotions matter to me also and the feeling and the emotion that has been communicated in this room over the past 48 hours is one data point for the success of a program then I would say there are long-term metrics so one of the things that we look to is will there be ongoing engagement so this is not a one anddone investment within within Brazil but it is what are the relationships that have been formed are new people coming to us are we uh more closely tied with corporations in the region that we had not been close to before do we see application volume increase over the years so those are all examples of ways that we would determine the investment that we made to be here for this weekend will carry on including of course ai- analytics. won. up.edu which would love your data and your business problems but that that was the other talk Garett how how has the NFL think about success that was an emotionally relevant URL right there um so maybe start with a feeling and emotions I think you know um because you know it's no surprise that when you talk NFL you do get into data and analytics very quickly it is the most measured and analyzed leak uh in the in the the world and we're very proud of it because it gives us the the tools and the insights that we require to make it the most competitive league and we believe that the competitiveness drives the success of the league in the end so so that we Embrace data and analytics and have a dedicated team that is you know world class is is I don't think new but um talk about emotions and feelings uh the the beauty of what digital gives us these days glob it does allow us to actually measure Global sentiment um how do people actually feel about you and and so for us as we think about global success which you know very quickly jumps to economics right it's return Revenue how quickly will you make money Etc that is for a leak of our size that is so focused on our domestic business and its core and being so successful as we are a very different kind of conversation again don't get me wrong in the end we would like to see the economic return and growth for us internationally that is the that is the ambition of being a global Sports property but the question is how do you get there right and and the way things have changed over the last 20 25 years with digital and how people consume and how people get information and being influenced about what brands and products to engage with is uh sentiment matters what your friends say what your family says what your community says what your likeminded folks around where you live think and and so we we are actually monitoring that very carefully about about what people say about us how people feel about it the feedback that we are getting uh that obviously is very social driven um about what we're hearing there but as we kind of grow and we see that sentiment of of of Engagement around football kind of grow what we see very clearly is that the engagement that we got on social viewership you know attend you know we can do attendance I mean I can go down the list of everything we measure domestically right which has relevance because you know we're fine-tuning of a league of this size but internationally we only have those four or five games you know we you know always over subscribed we had you know close to 2 million registry of interest for the 100,000 tickets we had in Frankfurt so it's not about selling out that's that's not really change it's about more about what can we create in that market long term so we are looking basically at anything you can come up with uh from a sentiment from a viewership from an engagement we're looking at our merchandise sales who buys what um we're looking at our sponsorship interest what brands are interested in us because they usually have more data on their local markets than we have in their local market so when we go into market and we see who's getting interested we know how they're thinking about us so so we never stop analyzing but quite honestly we're also learning because we'll go into markets where analytics are not as developed um where we're going to go into and we will not get the same access to the same data but uh we're extremely rigorous but we are allowing ourselves especially for the international grow grow to go with a lot of we start with the data but then we go with a lot of sentiment and we go with a lot of feel of like okay still does a feel right and then it's the are the numbers backing it up as we kind of go through the years because otherwise you don't try anything right if you if you if you if you use everything on a predictive model or you only use the immediate moment of the data in that moment um there is a real risk that you look at your investment and you immediately go like yeah we probably shouldn't do this the second year or we shouldn't do this the third year and you know back to your point it's an investment so we're kind of looking at it yes over time but we're thinking very long term here we have ownership that is extremely patient not always not always um sometimes they're extremely impatient but they you know it's a league that's over 100 years old and and and and we see the ownership kind of looking at how they're going to grow this so so even if we're not immediately getting all the returns we're looking for fandom measurement is probably if you say which is the one thing that we it's about Phantom measurement if we see that Phantom goes up then we believe over time everything else will follow Erica how do you I'm interested your reaction to Garrett's comment because of course you have to take you know there's lots of whether it's board members or maybe even sometimes the faculty God forbid take more of a short-term perspective how do you take a long-term perspective on building our brand since 1881 was Joseph whorton and if you want want to go even farther back Benjamin Franklin in 1740 I think you have to do both so again going back to a comment I made earlier one of my primary responsibilities is to preserve the brand for the next 143 years so I have to take a long-term perspective but as a leader and as someone who is managing a group of people who are all type A personalities very ambitious they want to see results in real time so I think we have to find ways to engage in activities that will deliver longterm but also achieve short-term goals and objectives yeah and maybe if I can just add to that and that's credit to the league and the ownership and how they're thinking about it because they're very involved um is you know we're in times of of good stability as it comes to the league right from a revenue perspective a lot of the media rights and longer term agreements uh we have good agreements with the players so a lot about the revenue and the cost base for the next foreseeable future put puts us as a league in a good position a lot of leagues in that moment will then default to do nothing everything goes well we don't have to do anything until kind of like you know if it ain't broken so the Leal looking at this differently it's like this is actually a perfect moment in time to explore and look at things that maybe we wouldn't have the time for if we would be more distracted with something that's happened there's enough going on domestically anyhow but uh it's also kind of the commitment to explore new things when things are on the better of of the side of you know versus you know not so let me ask uh each Erica and Garrett kind of a well next to last question is about the role of technology so obviously um you know AI isang changing education today I think many of us saw Ethan mik's presentation and remember I think he said it was like 22nd is business educator on the list of endangered species is the way he described it um but do you do you as a person as a scholar as also as our Dean Embrace technology and Garrett I'm going to ask you the same question about how like is the NFL you know there's us NFL purists like in the 1970s when I watch football it was the Raiders against the you know Etc so I'm interested in both how you both think about technology and embracing it or kind of in the middle I don't know how you canot Embrace technology that is the direction that the world is moving it is increasingly a part of our professional lives our personal lives so to presume it's not going to have significant impact on everything that we do would I think be almost silly and part of our responsibility is to develop the Next Generation to use technology in responsible meaningful ethical ways and so we wouldn't be doing our jobs if we weren't not only embracing technology but helping uh the students that are in our fold learn how to use it in a meaningful responsible way well way before uh ER responds let's take this opportunity to thank Erica James for her Visionary decision to make AI in data science the big future of the Wharton School while she's sitting up here I said it during my talk but I wanted to say it with you present so G how does the NFL think about technology I of course te technology needs to be fully embraced but technology comes in many different ways right we're using technology and Improvement on equipment uh we're using uh technology and Improvement what's happening on the field during a game we're using technology in the data and analytics you know after the game uh we're looking at how are we going to Market and and trying to get a better understanding of where to go that's all technology otherwise we wouldn't be able to make decisions where we go next in the countries we Embrace um it for us it comes always back down to one thing is the success of the league is built on the comp on its own competitiveness at the beginning of e SE actually with the draft right that starts the hope of the new season right the next quarterback you may have gotten or the next uh position that you felt you failed in as a team the last season uh it starts everything all over again the idea that anyone can win anyone can beat anyone and can in the end kind of go all the way is uh at the the core of of the NFL success you can only do this if you Embrace technology right so we using technology always very carefully always very much tested so in every which way we're using it but in the end we use technology to create better competitiveness right that's why we have equality within all the teams the access for all 32 teams uh to the technology that we're using but also to in the end create competitiveness not to the detriment of the players right so in the end it starts and ends with the game and in the game is made up of the players so player health and safety needs to be front and center in this game and if technology helps us to do so and we will evolve the game and at the same time can ensure that the game remains or even gets more competitive then that's good for the fan right and obviously you always have outliers of fans who would like to see a game that we these days can't support anymore and don't want to support anymore and so for us it is about uh the commitment to technology but also to be uh very aware about where we're using it and when we're using it but uh I think you know we're extremely Progressive at least kind of what I see can compar us into some of the other leagues and I think we will continue to do so to be very responsible in our application of it but in the end it is all about making the game better I'm sure ardan would also say I hope you would agree with um Wharton can do anything with technology but it can't be to the detriment of our Learners or our Scholars of course that's just so maybe just in the last question to each of you Eric we'll start with you what would you like people to know about the Wharton brand that maybe you didn't think about before you joined us at the Wharton School what's what when I when you say the Warton brand like what are those memorable few things that you think about I think about the the network the relationships that are formed and that are sustained because we do things like this we intentionally work to bring the Wharton Community together and I think that then feeds off of itself and I will say I think I was a little naive when I when I came to Wharton of course even then and everyone knew that it was the number one business school in the world but I didn't fully appreciate the impact that Wharton has in the world across so many different sectors so wanting to being a part of that where you know that the students that you put out the scholarship of our faculty really is it's changing fin it's changing economies it's changing societies it's changing Healthcare it's changing public policy that I under appre iated until I became a part of this ecosystem myself and we deeply deeply care which that I'm sure you knew Garrett how about the NFL what would you like us all to know about the NFL brand that you don't already know um I mean maybe something I can share because you know my responsibility is everything that is not in the US and you know not knowing exactly how many uh we have who us Bas versus not us Bas is you know where I got the greatest satisfaction in this job is can go into any country in the world and when somebody says like what do you do and I say you know NFL and I'm just going into trying to explain what the NFL is because you know we're only the number one sport in one country and that is in the United States so you know I would say you always have to create awareness that you know going with an NFL acronym into a country doesn't always necessarily mean people understand what it is so I'm always trying to lean in and when you see the eyes kind of lighting up and you good like and again you can be the other side of the world and somebody says you know I'm I'm an Eagles fan or I'm a Cowboys fan or you know whatever out of the 32 kind of gets you excited or in internationally which is maybe very interesting a little nugget which a lot of people don't appreciate in the US is the NFL as in brand itself as The Shield is actually in itself a brand right so we one of the most sold consumer products that we sell at International games are actually products that only have the shield on because the majority of NFL fans around the world have not yet the decided on a team so we've been for many many years now in Germany but only recently with games so we have about 19 million active fans in Germany of which half have not yet decided on their favorite team so if you just think about growth opportunity for the clubs this is why we have so many clubs right now leaning in and using the global markets right programs to go in there because they see fandom they see fans they see people excited uh we always play uh kind of Jersey Bing when we go to the games how how quickly Can you spot all 32 jerseys at a game it's a very different kind of environment when you go there so maybe that's to share to kind of take away that you might not realize you know because you grow up so much with your Club probably in the United States that I get to see every day and it's it's it's it's awesome well I think an appropriate way to end this panel would be for the three of us to each raise our Eagles cups let's see if we can get Garrett to do so to thank to thank the Wharton School and the NFL for being here in sou Paulo and again thank you to Garrett Meyer and thanks to my Dean Erica James thank you thank you you thank you thank you thank you so much thank you thank you to Eric Erica and Garrett for that wonderful uh presentation to close out the session we did a lot of learning we're going to go do a lot of partying