Julia Fox Interview! Kanye Lessons, Her Infamous Apartment, Charli XCX & Being an Anti-‘It Girl’

Introduction what makes you the real actress cuz you went to acting school if anything I would argue that that makes you fake yeah like you tried a little too hard that's something that came very naturally to me welcome to podcast Deluxe you are straight out of Castell Nado of weekly cultural review I'm John caram Monica a Critic at the New York Times I'm Joe Kelly I'm a reporter at the New York Times and I'm Julia Fox that girl no arguments there this week big guest episode uh Julia Fox on our original list like what people don't know when we started this we had a wish list y about a year ago we started this show wish list fo yeah you might have like it was like Barack Obama Julia Fox was like genuinely because for us we want people who touch various corners of culture we want people who show up in a lot of places who can talk educatedly and informed about a lot of different stuff so right off rip phenomenal yeah and your resume has only gotten longer in the year that we've been doing this show I know crazy so you've been doing your Fashion Show on E you're a video podcast veteran we'll get there you have a new song yeah down the drain named for the title of your Memoir yep uh came out last year and recently appeared in the music video for Charlie xcx's 360 as that girl yeah right I mean like that girl so all these things are connected but you seem to have been doing music lately like first just give us the backstory of the Charlie song because she also mentions you in the Her appearance in the recent Charli XCX video, “360,” with a slew of “It Girls” [Music] track with the princess did you know her previously how to she play this for you you know I think that she had already been working on this song when we were still kind of just like acquaintances okay but I always knew that she you know thought highly of me cuz you know she would say it and interviews and stuff and I would reciprocate because I've always been a huge fan of her like I think she just makes people feel good and that's amazing and um I also just like love British girls like they're really down to earth they don't take themselves too serious ly they have a really good sense of humor whereas I feel like Americans are a lot more sensitive and like passive aggressive like British people kind of just tell you what it is okay you know like even the way they talk to each other they'll be like yeah you know it's like if they did that here it'd be like you want to fight you know like it's just like also the fighting in in England doesn't actually have anything to do with how they talk to each other just fighting they're just fighting for they're fighting for fun which is also such a Vibe yeah um um so anyway I loved her and she told me she was going to shout me out in this song and and then asked me to be in the video and obviously I said yes what about huh oh Charlie that's that's literally Julia Fox yeah sorry did you know it was going to be this table full allar team yeah like a I didn't really know through through the years yeah I didn't know anything but I was you know I trust her I trust her vision and whatever she wants to do I'm I'm down so you didn't like show up to the table and you're like oh I'm beefing with so and so no no no I don't and I like don't beef with girls like girls can beef with me but I'm not going to beef back with them like it's no was there anyone in that video because obviously over the years I'm sure you've had opportunities whether to work with right is there a particular person or or one or two people who you were like I'm so relieved to see that person here that's or that person makes me feel much more comfortable about this entire love CH Cherry I had her on my podcast sure two years ago um I love Rachel Senate we both had our big breakout roles in the same year and I forgot what award show we were at but we like met at that award show and we were both like you know just nobody's at the time and so it's really cool to meet there and then meet again you know now that we've both come so far and that's always really amazing um I love gabriette been a huge fan of hers I mean you know obviously Richie should am but you know my so like you know that's a given um but like yeah everyone was amazing and then and then chlo shows up right as the sort of well I wasn't there that day yeah different she wasn't at the table Yeah so a lot of the girls I didn't even see at all right but it's still cool to be in the same video you think in terms of lineage because obviously one of the things about that video that really jumps out of me is it's really there's your timeline there's your lineage it girl lineage timeline so when you're looking at yourself as part of that how does it like how does it make you feel do you look at someone from the chloe7 generation and think like okay that's a path for how I can be in the world how I can move through the world yeah it's cool I mean I think I think Khloe was like you know one of the first like it girls that could be represented on the internet you know cuz kids was such an amazing movie and you know to be even in the same conversation as an icon like that is like were you thinking of yourself that way even but even before this video were you thinking of yourself with all the sort of steps that have led up to this I mean as like a role model I always kind of like just thought of myself more as like an anti- it girl you know like I don't want to conform to Being an anti-“It Girl” like I don't know I'm I'm just I'm very like lowkey anti-establishment and I don't like those like terms that can be coined and just like used to sell something so I feel like I'm an anti- girl but okay but still an IT girl nonetheless right you can't you can't fully run from the the title can't beat the allegations but you do like you do have like a bob and weave quality to your career like I feel like a lot of people were first introduced to you through UNCA gems I told you about how things were going to go you like the way things are going now that's the book comes out a couple years after and it seems like every time Making decisions after “Uncut Gems” to right-size her fame you like almost get like too big then you swerve again and like and now we've landed at this Music Moment Like has that been a conscious effort to avoid like quote unquote Going Hollywood or definitely following a whatever the path set for you by like a boardroom of agents and managers like what I think just always want to be like more underground or like that's just my that's where I lean because that's what I've always been you know kind of like in On The Fringe and like in my own little subculture and not really like the mainstream doesn't speak to me and I don't think I speak to the mainstream like I just don't think we each other's audience is you know but there was definitely a moment where it seemed like you could have gone in that direction like I'm thinking of like a band or a pop star like do I sign to a major label or not like were there people who sat you down and said like we can make you the next like here's the threee plan if you want it basically every day yeah yeah start a makeup line I'll invest your makeup line I'll invest in your clothing line and it's like I don't want to be out here selling to people in a world of like over consumption and waste and you know just it just doesn't inspire me that's not what I am I'm an artist and I'm a tortured one at that and I'd like to remain that way you also say something in the book that um I think it's maybe when you're telling your mother that you get the part that you'd gotten the Parton on G gems and you were sort of like I'm GNA be famous and then you sort of as an aside say like I'm kind of like a hood celebrity already but like this is different yeah as that Arc was happening and then you're going into the roll out of the movie and the press and all that stuff what was the sort of point where you realize like you're maybe less Tethered to that grounding level of like local celebrity Hood celebrity like the people's champ when did that when did you start to feel distant from that I don't I don't feel that at all you never felt like you got pulled too far away like it was slipping away you're like who am I and where am I no really I'm I'm in New York I'm on the street you're outside no they love me here I I literally can't walk down the street so was there were there offers like in the uncut gems aftermath like that were tempting to you to like well I don't know if you remember but the pandemic happened right a month after K jams came out right so anything that I had on the table went away for two years and then I had a baby right and then I was kind of like couldn't travel couldn't do anything so that's when I started the podcast cuz I like needed something to do where it could be like safe and I wouldn't be contaminating anybody or putting my child at risk sure and then so the choice was sort of made for you yeah but it that changed everything right but it was the choice you would have made anyway you think no because I had moved to LA right after uncut gems and we had all these plans and I was going to do all these things and then in March or February or whenever it was when like I think everything shut down in February but then it officially shut down in March March yeah yeah then I just came back home and got pregnant a month later what do you think that sliding doors moment would have been like what did you foresee for yourself you know I don't know but I'm so happy it went down this way because I'm so happy I chose to become a mom right then and there because really it would have been the only time that I could have dedicated to doing it and doing a really thorough job at it CU I had nothing else going on whereas now I'm traveling every other day and you know it's a constant headache of the travel plans for the baby getting the nanny for the the baby but your your son appears in your new music video yeah do you try to keep those parts of your life separate or you're you're I think that he you know I here is you know I feel like parenting in America is like it's like it's really separate whereas like in Europe for instance it's very normal for a child to go everywhere with their parent even if it's out late at night or even to a bar it's not considered like you know and I feel like I want my child to be involved in all areas of my life so any anywhere that I can squeeze him in I put him in and I think it's also good for him to like have that life experience and to feel comfortable and you know it's just it's it's like why not you know I'm taking notes I'm doing no iPad yes bars yeah the well it depends what bar the best bar if it's like a cute little tapa sne bar sure it's fine but if you know obviously don't take him to the box like yeah babies at the Box babies at the Box no don't do it I mean there definitely are babies at the box but they're like grown men dressed up in like a diaper yeah do you feel like parenting How motherhood has changed her relationship to adventure and motherhood changed your relationship to Adventure and impulsively going after because one of the things that comes up over and over again the book is a willingness to sort of be like I don't know where this Road's gonna go but we're we're getting in the car and we're going spiritually or metaphorically how did parenting evolve that in you as a person I have to get my kicks some way you know like I don't party anymore I don't I'm literally with my kid 247 so you know I have to get my Thrills through working and so I always I'm always trying new things sure and I never want to limit myself but obviously now like I I have to remain grounded cuz I have responsibility a human that depends on me yeah so I can't just like disappear for you know or like go on a crazy road trip or move to the value or whatever I've done in the past like I can't obviously can't do that anymore when you were putting all that stuff down in the book I mean one of the things obviously you've been documenting things for more way before this book you've been documenting things for a long time in your life when you were sort of doing all the recollecting and putting it all here did your perspective being 5 to 10 years older looking back on some of that stuff did your perspective change on it did you feel wistful did you feel regretful about how did you view the events that you're talking about I don't really regret anything because I'm a very big believer in like your path and your journey and your fate and like I always say that like out of the most horrible things like the most beautiful things are born so anytime anything is happening to me I know that one I have more pieces to the puzzle and I see the bigger picture it'll make sense you know and I also think it's good to just have something to push against you know like it's good it it gives if you're hand at everything all the time like it just kind of like makes life less desirable to live because you're not like for me like I always have to prove something and that's what I'm pushing against so that's why maybe I do the most or like whatever but that's just what keeps me going but also it comes up it does come up a few times in the book how you're sort of you'll have these encounters where you're like I think these people whoever they are are not going to like me or no one's going to show up to the art gallery opening or so on so forth and then time and time again you're proven wrong and I'm sort of surprised because I would think certainly like you say like the queen of downtown like you know what I mean at some point maybe you would think okay they will show up okay they do like me but that hasn't has way really no like I still get stuff like that all the time I just think doesn't everyone though like have the like little voice in their head like this time is going to be the time that they know you've got really lucky this far but this time it's over for you like I'm it's irrational and I'll even be like no this is like super irrational and like the data proves that this is not possible you know but like you still think it I don't it's like childhood trauma it's hard to undo that if that's like how you were always made to feel as like an outsider like the black sheep the underdog the like weird one whatever it's like it's hard to dismantle that I think even you could have so much success and so much whatever but I don't think that ever goes away do you feel that like as an actress now do you feel like you're on steady footing like are you going on auditions are you like I'm working a lot I'm filming a lot of movies yeah like do you feel like I feel good I feel like I think think for a while it got a little crazy and I got a little I don't know I feel I I don't like lose sight of myself but like I lost a lot of weight and I was just like I think I was just on a spiral like I was unwell you know I was like mourning the loss of the relationship with my son's father I was dating people that I shouldn't have even been in the vicinity of like it was just you know and now I think I'm really back to a place where I feel like grounded again and I feel like okay I'm reprioritizing I know what I want to do um you know I'm just like you know making more art showing up for myself eating properly sleeping properly but but acting is definitely part of that piece of a puzzle of what you want to do cuz I think it's interesting like it's such a difficult position I'd imagine to be in where your breakout role is playing a version of yourself like that's one thing like you're really good at being yeah J Julia Fox and maybe a heightened version of yourself or a version of yourself from three years ago or whatever it was but there was a lot of you in that role right even though you you write it as you write in the book like it's actually harder to act like what you think the director's version of you is like it's I was actually like so much harder I was like like who do you think I am you know cuz obviously it really wasn't through the Looking Glass yeah so I mean it was definitely still acting and was really it just felt so weird cuz it's like so close to home but then again also not and it's just like a weird space to be in but now you feel now I do like at the time I was like I'm not worthy and now I'm like no I'm definitely worthy you know just because I didn't get my um practice in acting roles doesn't mean that I didn't get them out in the world in real life which I think is actually like stronger what do you have coming up that you're really excited about like I well I just got back from New Mexico last week was there Upcoming acting projects for a month and shooting a film um called him um and it's a Jordan Peele monkey paw production it's like a psychological horror Thriller film based about based on like American football and I play um the this aging what not the band American football no it's that a band I don't I actually cannot believe you I couldn't help it I couldn't help it you know once always an emo kid I could I never thought we would mention the band American football on a podcast with Julia but but here we are I'll have to check them out I don't know but but about about a football player yeah about like an aging out football player I play his wife and um he's recruiting the next you know greatest of all time okay football player but there's some shady dealings going on with the franchise and you'll just have to watch it what is it like to be on set now when you're not in the local SC like you're not with people you've known like you're not I know obviously you've done stuff in between done other stuff where it wasn't like I mean nothing will ever be like shooting on Cut jum you know because I was really there with all my friends in front of the camera and behind the camera and it just you know and even as I was filming it like all the hair and makeup team were like girl this is not what it's like so don't get used to it like this and then you're like stepen Soderberg here I am I'm Julia F yeah but like everyone could tell that there was a really special Vibe and energy on the set and everyone knew that the film was going to be huge and it was you know um so I'm still trying to like top that or like be known for like something else that isn't that um but obviously it's so grateful like I'm so happy to be known for that it's a huge honor I've got to imagine in uncut gems on some level you know you're playing someone's version of you the real person but then you're thinking well this version of me many people will conf flate with the actual me so you're being Mindful and like sort of protective of the character maybe and then also reverse protective of yourself but if you're in someone else's Vision altogether it's probably more liberating I would assume I think it's an evolution but it it still comes from the same place of just like wanting to release and you know Finding different Avenues different channels to release um I think in in the ear in the early ODS of my career it was very much like unpacking and unloading my trauma whereas now I'm just like so over my trauma and my I don't want to hear about it like I'm just over it like there's got to be something more interesting you know even though somehow we always end up back there I'm like oh god I've done so much since then um so you know it's it's diff it's it is an evolution though yeah I'm curious when you talk about you know the worst part of your life being put out there in your work like you were doing it on a level that was like for your friends or for your friends friends or for your local community and then you write a book and you know you obscure things a little bit right you you're writing about your time with Salem but you're not calling them Salem you're writing about your time with Kanye but you're calling him the artist or you know you're changing some names and details but all of this stuff like exists out in the world and you have such a fan base and such an online How being transparent about her wild teen years shapes how she presents now fan base and so much of your life is online oh there's a Reddit that's what I'm saying literally just going to say the reddit's crazy people pull up you know they're not right about everything though okay you want to correct anything while we're here no but but they pull stuff up like I was on Twitter randomly unconnected to this interview last week and you're missing person's poster from when you're a teenager and you run away and you tell that story in the book but it's like floating like people have that and it's floating around online like do you is that hard to deal with like as your star gets bigger there's just more and more eyes on the stuff that you might have thought nobody would ever see no I mean sometimes I'm like oh God you know cuz you when you're putting out naked photos of yourself but they're artsy they're not porn people have a really hard time differentiating nudity from porn right especially like stripped of their context you know exactly you definitely I definitely never you know I I I don't want to say that I never thought that a wider audience would see it I just don't I think I was just so living in that in the moment at that time like really like survival mode day by day that I don't think I even I didn't go there and when people dig that stuff up like is it ret traumatizing for you can you laugh when you see your missing person's post I'm so like numb to it now it doesn't have it happens so often that it's not maybe like in the beginning I might have been like oh [ __ ] you know like my publicist isn't going to like this you know right but now I feel like my fans know my tea and yeah still love and accept me for it must if anything I want them to see it you know because when you get to a certain point people are only seeing like your your pop shoots or whatever it is it's all glitzy and glammy and looks fun and colorful and Poppy and you know I you know I still want them to know like hey it's not always sunshine and rainbows like like look at my old zen that SC and put on the internet don't look at it though but yeah look at it cuz you know you you can see there's a real human behind all this I mean your voice and those I mean and and one thing I in the later chapter of the book where you're talking about the uh the early What she learned, good and bad, from her relationship with Kanye West days with yay and you know yay calling Mel and the write up and then his associate submits a different write up and you're like this doesn't sound like me but it but that but that scene to me is very much like look I am down to be documented I'm Avail like the public thinks they know me in an intimate and vulnerable way but if it's going to happen here it's got to be my voice it can't be your imposition onto my voice is that fair to say absolutely yeah I think at a certain point it's like I'm not going to let you make me sound stupid you know like I I'll walk away right now like I'm not publishing that with my name on it like just no you know it could draw the line somewhere we're calling Mel don't run it and that seems like it's part of that goes back to your point about you're an indie artist you're not a mainstream artist like that and you want that full creative control not to people not people to put absolutely to project their version of you yeah on yourself like when do you feel like you fully wrestled back total control of your image was it after that Paparazzi relationship yeah definitely because um you know it was actually a blessing that he came into my life because he kind of like shook up my team in a way where a lot of the creative control was then given back to me whereas I feel like for a couple of years there even though nothing was really going on because it was the pandemic and whatever but I would still feel this pressure to like pretend to be this like Hollywood Starlet that I like wasn't and I'd get into fights about it and be really upset about it but then ultimately always concede and like just do what they wanted me to do because it was like easier than arguing so after he came in and was like wait a minute no that like I'm going to do he said I'm going to do what I want to do but then when he left it was like oh wait now I'm going to do what I want to do you know right so so you needed that hurricane to blow through to get rid of all the debris y yeah yeah yeah and then you you felt more empowered after that well well then I kind of felt like oh my God the world is my oyster right and you knew you didn't want to be anybody's muse no I'm My Own Muse in the same way I'm my own muse I'm also my own like downfall and cuz really ultimately I can only do what I believe I can do so when I don't believe in myself I can't do anything and I'm debilitated so it's both ways you know um but yeah after that uh you know it was like the the doors had unlocked and and I just had so many more resources at my fingers more people wanting to work with me more designers willing to let me close and and then just it became really fun and then I had and then and then I then I started to hear this whole thing like oh well she's only like you know killing it in the fashion because it it's Kanye it's Kanye and I was like no these are my looks I'm putting them together and um so then I felt like that was what I needed to push against and Pro prove that that no these are my looks you know I'm doing this and I wasn't doing it before because my team wanted me to just look basic right because they had a vision especially post on God GS where they were like we can push you we we have a uh uh a trajectory for you all you have to do right and all you have to do is just play along if you just keep smiling wearing these looks yeah you're going to be fine in 10 5 10 years you'll be financially fine you a great career we did our jobs that's what they're telling you and you're sort of saying like it's not me yeah just like we just can't do it it's not me it felt inauthentic and it didn't feel fun and it's like I don't want to do anything that isn't fun I'd rather pack it up and just leave and go do something else do you love video podcasting are we getting more for no I don't think I mean maybe I mean I loved working with Nikki Tash my podcast host but like it just got to the point where like I do not have time one thing that that podcast I think was so effective at I mean you know it's funny we live in kind of like the call her daddy Arrow or whatever but we all live in the shadow we all we're just here just you know this we're Daddy to each other um but doing that form of like intimate vulnerable confessional podcasting but not on this kind of like Mega level where it's like oh we have to get the biggest necessarily aess celebrity but you're doing it you're saying like well this kind of format actually works for like like cool girls too like like that to me was was not at all to get big celebrities and I think some people on the team that came on the team probably would have preferred that but to me that's freaking boring like I want Heidi FL I want Courtney Love I want Dennis Rodman I want all all aist in their own special sged I want like I just want more Niche more cool more Underground like more eccentric more unconventional I love people that have been cancelled like I love who's your favorite canceled artist um probably Mia but we had her on the Pod yeah love her I don't Grimes we had her on the Pod too love her um yeah like I don't give a [ __ ] like that's just what I find interesting you know and it's like I'm not going to waste an hour of my life talking to someone I don't find interesting yeah you want tension yeah um okay where does the music fit in like who came to you so Her new song, “Down the Drain” you're in The Charlie video you have the Charlie song you're at the Charlie Boiler [Music] Room yeah like did all of that converge naturally or was this part of the no it was super super organic I was um doing the book tour and I knew I'd have an audience and I feel like the overarching message of my book is like you can and should do whatever the hell you want change your mind change path make a detour make a U-turn like just up be yourself do what you want and I thought like what is the best way to get that across other than to perform a song and like kind of play this like I'm in my pop star era now you know haha like it wasn't supposed to be like real so my friend Ben drogy who actually lives in my house has a recording studio on the top floor and we just kind of sat down for a couple hours wrote out the song kind of made a beat together figured out the hook the melody boom I left he finished it and and then I performed it at the book [Music] event and then he and then Charlie heard it I guess someone that was in the audience put it on Tik Tok she heard it she was having the Boiler Room event and it was funny because she texted me like babe do you want to come to this event the boot was like yes of course I'll be there then she texted me again a couple days later and she was like we want to play your song and I thought she meant just like my song like what's my go-to club song oh like I wasn't even I was like what so I was like oh stiletto Pals Crime Mob and then she's like no LOL your song that you sang and I was like like that's me right like I just had forgotten you know and then you for you're doing so much that you forgot you had a pop song yeah like I didn't even and also I just did it as like a fun thing for my like biggest fans that showed up to my freaking book tour and bought a book like it was just supposed to be for them and now it's kind of spiraled and become this whole thing but you know it's like that's why I always tell people just do create art because even if you don't have a place right in the moment the opportunity might arise even year like I wrote a script seven years ago and we're just now developing it into a movie so it's like just do stuff keep creating stuff because it'll eventually find a home making art is like having little babies and then they grow up and they go out into the world and they have their own independent spirit and they like you'll be so surprised where they end up when they're out of your hands and like just keep creating art what's your script about it's about two girls that accidentally kill their Sugar Daddy Incredible yeah it's so good that's it yeah that's is it a drama or comedy is the real question it's like it's like a dramatic comedy I would yeah there's some Thriller esque part nature to it it's definitely a very like high pressure very like you know things are happening really fast and it's kind of kooky and all over the place but in a good way like the anxious girls will love it we'll be there yeah you've recorded more music since the first song no I've been so busy babe okay but your producer you live with your producer and I barely see okay it is in a sort of proud lineage I feel like of kind of like it girls making songs or anti- girls anti- it girls making [Music] songs come with me come down the dra I'll be sweet bra are you of like schooled in the Paris Hilton stars or blind Rating pop songs made by It Girl icons Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Addison Rae, Kim Kardashian, Farrah Abraham & Naomi Campbell L all right so we have a we have a little playlist for you okay can we run through a couple of names and just give a Vibe do you want to hear the songs or you probably know them I will say them and if I don't know them so talk let's talk Paris Hilt and stars are blind okay this is but that jealousy was a good one too oh you like the deep cut de someone jealousy jealousy jealousy I mean there's so many good ones Paris Paris Hilton to me is sort of like the Napo Ultra of someone in space making songs that in their specific moment when they came out people were like I can't believe this happened and then five years later everybody was like well that was a classic yeah that was I have friends who whose wedding song was stars are oh my God that's amazing okay so Paris you're you're all yeah oh my God Lindsay Lohan rumors is stting I'm sick of being I'm tired of what they not as much of a classic to me yeah okay I'm gonna have to agree with you we started high it's hard to St Paris um where are you on Addison the music career of Addison Ray who was at the Boiler Room obsessed is the big single from last year you you're obessed with me so I took a second and I said me too I'm obsessed with me as much as you say you die for me i' die for me e too and if I lost you i' still have me I can't lose but uh to the person who sent me the zip file of all the like unreleased ad we have the leaked we have the leak I got I got some leaks and they're good oh yeah the red is popping just like like I'm glad I'm glad I love that for um Kim Kardashian Jam you up on this I like it like ironically you know what I mean you remember yes oh my gosh DJ play my jam what was it again something like that I mean it's it's so bad that it's good know written by The Dream no way early yeah wow I mean I love everything she does so yeah who can yeah it's hard to argue with um any of the Farah Abraham music oh are you up on that no play just play a little bit I I'm actually more into her mom's rap career did you guys see that oh is it that older blonde that older yeah that's that's crazy just play like you want 20 seconds of after prom it's aging really well [Music] it's giving Gigi dagostino I love G [ __ ] it's pretty good this goes like this could fit in the Charlie Boiler Room set this could be 100 G song it is basically 100 gek song she was ahead of her time also this is literally the art my Teenage Dream ended that's art that's really art sh that's a masterpiece I'm down yes and the final one Naomi Campbell you know Naomi Campbell had an album love and tears why don't I know this came out in 94 94 oh my God okay I was still a baby a full length ALB as was I John was in London I was married the probably um shall we play the T yes please yeah kind of like [Music] it that is a choice that is the 9s it's good this is really good actually it's giving me like Madonna Grace Jones had a baby also just that aesthetic like the white tank with the of jeans and aert like can you think of them more 1991 1994 aesthetic all right the Renaissance Sy Crawford was watching this and like how come nobody gave me this song we're bringing we're bringing this album back we're going to get it printed and like limited edition fancy viny me please you really should reunion tour I'm G to have to like post a Tik Tok video with this as the sound pleas do and beat you guys to the pond that's fine that's retweet how did I not know um this our job I'm really glad we could introduce you to I'm literally listen to the entire thing I love Naomi Campbell she's h a dream like just knowing that like all these people who came from outside the music world and one day woke up and Trying on different creative costumes, from acting to TV hosting to music said today is the day I become a pop star I make a pop star I don't know what it is about you know cuz I feel like when you're an artist and you're creative I think that that go like you could put a bouquet of flowers in front of flowers and I will arrange it in my own unique way and you know what I mean it's like even if it's cooking I will make it in a certain way or like a a way that is unique to my Creative Vision so I think it's only natural that a creative person would try their handed another art such as music sure and you don't think it's like offensive to be a dilatant you know like oh like real like you were saying real actresses would be like can't believe she got that role or real musicians would be like well then it's like well what makes you the real actress cuz you went to acting school if anything I would argue that that makes you fake yeah like you tried a little too hard at something that came very naturally to me you're like I didn't need any schooling uh that's great have you have you heard the remix of down the drain that is chopped and shoe gazed there's like a I've heard so many mixes so I don't know if we're talking about the same one there's one I found that sounds like it would be right at home um at John and I's favorite goth club uh the castle in Tampa Tampa Florida um I don't know if you're familiar but those those boots would do well honestly yeah strong recommend if you're ever in Tampa called The Castle it's called The Castle it's in Tampa they have a I don't know the next time I find myself in Tampa you'll be surprised honestly maybe worth a trip worth a we'll all go maybe we book you a show there a genuinely incredible net Club I love that um but yeah this this this version would play hard yeah okay I had a question because we obviously we were talking a little bit earlier about media and like you Her favorite magazines and websites know in the yay moment you have this interview magazine moment but I know the New York that you grew up in downtown media whether it's old interview paper magazine etc etc I wonder when you were in your teenage years was there stuff that you found yourself turning to and you were like that's the Bible of the scene I want to be a part of yeah there was a magazine called misbehave oh yeah of course and that was like the only thing I've read yeah shout out Mary Choy former editor of misbehave yeah yeah that was the I feel like that's all me and my friends read was misbehave great graphics great colors girl cool too young for sassy right and a little too before you could say old no I was I don't care badge of honor I love I'm here so like misbehave misbehave was your was your sweet spot but that felt like it spoke to you like yeah and that was like that early moment where it's like Street Wear hype be Street Wear culture but for girls and drama and I feel like there was like a little blog section too where like some of the writers would like write there I don't know I can't remember now but that I remember like every day religiously like coming home from school and and going on Miss were there other blogs and as as it things started to move more online like where their websites and blogs or social pages that like that you got obsessed with in the same way that really spoke to Hon that was like the only one I don't think I you know I didn't like really live that much online like I was very IRL at in the streets at the time yeah you were busy I really was like people were posting you on Tumbl all over last night's party and like all over all those like party sites like I was really just like out street your blackberry Wi-Fi didn't work downstairs or whatever could get a signal at lit no definitely not we've talked about some What she learned from her infamous viral apartment tour video of your biggest moments but we haven't mentioned the apartment tour um so we can start in my bedroom which is the living room so yeah I put my bed here in the living room so I could turn my bedroom into a little playroom for Valentino um I know I have that Clothing Rack there that I really need to get rid of but anyway yeah this is Valentine where Valentino hangs out and oh this is my Nostalgia mirror which I feel like it's another Touchstone where a lot of people encountered you for the first time uh and I was not expecting that to be such a big deal yeah and we're like people that's why it became a big deal surprised and horrified and whatever like there's something really New York about that right of you showing around your apartment and and how you live and sharing room with your son and your clothes and whatever like yeah like what what was the aftermath of of that like for you well I think I think it was actually probably a good thing that I did that because it made me realize that like hey like you don't need to be here anymore you know like you can afford something better but I think I just got really yeah I don't live there anymore um but it was like I got comfortable there and also by New York standards that's a pretty okay apartment the location was Prime um I had everything I needed at my fingertips all my friends were in that area and I just you know you get comfortable and also it's was just so busy and it wasn't really anything I thought about but I started to feel as I was getting gaining more like Fame that people had this idea of me that was like totally false like I was like an ays or something and I very quickly had to be like no I'm literally just like you guys you know cuz I am um and I I don't know I think people just I think it it became such a moment because I think people really did have such a false idea of who I was but then when they were like girl you're in a movie with Adam Sandler you're like oh yeah maybe I should get a nicer apartment for that that's not where I made my money but I mean it was definitely the starting point to getting more jobs and stuff but you up but you up you upgraded yeah yeah but it sort of served inadvertently as a way to do the thing that you described very early this conversation of like right sizing your Fame as it were and kind of like saying anybody who thinks that I'm out here in the stars in the skies I'm right here I'm literally right here with literally yeah I'm in a walk up with a baby I put a stroller I have to say it's a lot of work you know um but yeah it was it was definitely a a good stepping stone and I think also prior to that I think I was just just like well I grew up sharing a room with my brother on a bunk bed you know I was like well he has his own room like we're doing great and I think it was just like that mentality of like you know just because you didn't have the ideal situation like it's okay to strive for more it's okay to like want something better for yourself and like I'm just very humble Vibes like I don't like like excessive displays of wealth like I said in that video like I don't feel comfortable in like a Lamborghini don't like I drive a Dodge Challenger which I think is a luxury car in my opinion you know and love to rent a challenger yeah the best best car ever and like I don't know I just I I feel like that's just not what's important to me like I don't I I'm not having a measuring contest with people over like all the nice things I have like I don't give a [ __ ] what if that's how people measure their self worth like get some therapy for that are really 10 other reasons get some therapy when you when you think about the evolutions in the city and you think about kind of like what downtown quota is now and that could be dim Square could be Bushwick it could be Ridgewood whatever do you spend any time in those spaces and if you do does it feel recognizable to you or do you think these kids are just on some other thing that I was not on um you know I it's definitely different than from when I was in my you know teens and 20s like like downtown was still kind of like the hood you know like I feel like now it's kind of more like NYU town like NYU has really expanded its [Music] campuswood it feels like one big college campus in a way um and you know and that's great and it's all fine and dandy but I definitely don't feel like I really like fit in that much anymore mhm you're like they're out here calling the West Village just West Village happening You' seen that on Tik Tok oh it's in oh it's like I'm in West V I'm in West Village look at the look of horror on your face the first time I saw someone do it on Tik Tok I was like I had to be a mistake you know it's like you see the first one you're like ah it's just this one person by the seventh or ninth or 30th wow pray for the Youth every episode of popcast deluxe is at youtube.com/ podcast every episode of all podcast is at NY times.com podcast we'll be back next week let's go out with a remix of down the drain yeah that's yeah no we're going to keep it raw let's do it [Music]