Rising Phoenix: What Does It Take? | Episode 1: Kadeena Cox

This podcast is brought to you by the creators  of Emmy award winning, Rising Phoenix. Supported by global partners  Adidas and Procter and Gamble,   the proud makers of Oral-B, Pampers and Gillette. Hi, my name is Matt Stutzman, I'm a four  time Paralympian and silver medalist. And I'm four time Olympic gold  medalist, Michael Johnson. Welcome to our podcast, ‘Rising  Phoenix: What Does It Take?’ Where we'll introduce you to some of  the world's greatest Paralympians. Kind of like me. Kind of like you, Matt. You'll hear about their life stories,   what it takes to get this far, and their  hopes for Paris 2024 and beyond. Well,   here we are for Episode One of our new podcast  series, ‘Rising Phoenix: What Does It Take?’ We're actually here at the Adidas Arena in Paris,  home of para badminton and para powerlifting. Very exciting. What are you  looking forward to Matt? I am looking forward to competing, this will  be my fourth games, so I'm excited about that,   plus my family gets to come. On top of  that, there's so many great things that   are happening at the games. What are  you looking for, for the Paris Games? I think just having crowds back in the stadium.  I mean, Tokyo was, you know, I wasn't even there,   I was doing my commentary remote. So,  good to be back in the stadium where,   you know, people just are celebrating  the Olympics and Paralympic Games. I think the stadiums are going to be packed. So, the title of the podcast is  a nod to a film that you were   involved in a couple of years ago,  and you want to tell us about it? Yeah, it was ‘Rising Phoenix’, which is an Emmy  award winning film. I was happy to be a part   of a film that really took sport and disability  and was able to show the world what people with   physical disability can do in sport. In fact,  on our podcast coming up, we're actually gonna   be talking to a bunch of amazing athletes that  are also helping and wanting to promote that. So you and I both love sports, right? We absolutely do, but could you imagine, you  know, being a young, promising track athlete,   and then have something happen to  you that, that threatens all of that? You know, I was born without any arms, so I  couldn't even imagine what that would be like. That's exactly what happened to Kadeena Cox, who  not only excelled when she came back to her own   sport, but then through her rehabilitation, took  up another sport and now is a two sport athlete. You know, she really wasn't content just running  the Paralympic track. She actually dominates the   cycling track too. Did you know there is a record  of 236 medal events for the women in Paris, 2024. I did not know that, Matt. There's a  lot though, that's a lot of medals. That's a lot, and our guest will be doing  all she can to ensure that she brings   home some. Welcome to ‘Rising Phoenix:  What Does It Take?’ Kadeena Cox, hello! Thanks, hello! Hi, Kadeena. How are you? I'm good thanks. How are you? Very good. Very good. Welcome. So, tell me where you're at. So I'm at the velodrome. I've  just finished my gym session.   I've got a cycling track session this afternoon. So you're in the Velodrome today training,  but obviously you can't run on the track   in the Velodrome. So talk about the balance  between the cycling training and track training. It's actually quite a fun balance, I think I  do maybe two or three bike sessions a week,   and then two running sessions a week. I can't  tolerate the running so well. I’m getting older,   it's breaking my body a bit more.  But yeah, I just kind of like, yeah,   kind of split it pretty equally. I have  the benefit of having the cycling help my   running a little bit, just in terms of, like,  the 400 metres, so I can do, like, some of,   like, the more, like longer, like ‘lacticy’  sessions on my bike, but it's still fun. So growing up, you were very much into sports,   in fact I heard that you actually wanted  to be a winter athlete. Is that true? Yeah, I was trying to get into bobsleigh,   actually, before I got ill, not bobsleigh,  skeleton because that was the funner one,   I felt like I wanted to go down  head first, because why not? So you like going fast basically? I like speed, that's probably why I enjoy  cycling, because I can go really, really fast. I could put a motor on that  bike for you if you need to. I mean, it might be cheating, but I'm here for it. I do want to hear just a little bit more  about the skeleton. Why would anybody,   no like, how does anyone get started in that?  So, I mean, what was your attraction to that? It's just that kind of, like, power and like,  it's something different, like, it’s not like, no   one from my area is going to rock up and be like,  “Oh, I've done skeleton.” So I was like, I want to   be that person, like, I want to be different and  like I say, I love speed and it just seemed like a   challenge. The only thing I wasn't really feeling  was the fact that it's always cold, but you know. But I want to go back just for a  minute. I mean, you were on track for,   pardon the pun, a track career, actually, as an  able-bodied athlete, and then that all changed   in 2014. Talk about that, and just kind of  take us through what happened back then. Yeah, it seems like such a long time ago  now, it's 10 years, which is crazy, but yeah,   I was kind of studying for my physio degree and,  kind of, yeah, woke up one day and basically had   right-sided weakness and dysarthria, which  is kind of speech disturbance. And yeah,   then I had a stroke at 23 which seemed pretty  crazy. I was probably like 80-85% recovered,   and then, yeah, four months later, I woke up with,  kind of, burning and tingling from like my neck   down and it was at that point I was diagnosed  with multiple sclerosis. Basically I had to   learn how to walk again properly, how to, like,  feed myself, because I couldn't, like, cut stuff,   like, how to like, you know, use the shower, like,  without falling over, because I did that quite   often. I basically spent like, two months just  in the house with my mum looking after me, gained   loads of weight because I wasn't training like,  went from training, you know, every day, like,   multiple sessions, to just like my exercises,  walking up and down the stairs, which was painful.   I used to actually run down the stairs, because  I was like, the sooner I get down, I'll get down   before the pain hits because the pain's always  going to hit as soon as, like, I start walking.   My mom would be like, “Stop running!” I was like,  “Well, this is as much exercise as I'm gonna get.” I suffered a stroke a few years back, and  obviously I was, you know, beyond my athletic   career at that point, but I was able to make a  very quick, you know, fairly quick recovery and   you talked about having to learn a lot of things  on how to do a lot of things, and it was the same   with me. I had to learn how to walk again, learn  how to, I mean I had to learn how to do a lot of   things, and, but I felt like having been an  athlete for so long, it was sort of familiar   territory for me, like I knew the challenge,  I understood, you know, how that recovery was   going to go, you know, and just, you know, sort  of looking for these tiny little improvements   every day. It was something that I was so familiar  with that, I think it made it a lot easier for me,   relative to anyone else, to make that recovery. It  wasn't easy, but a lot easier. I'm just wondering   if you, because you have been an able-bodied  athlete in athletics before you had your stroke,   if you felt like that was an advantage for  you, even through that difficult transition? I used it maybe, like, as like, you know, like  rehab from an injury. And just had that, kind of,   like yeah, the small goals, like, you know,  obviously there’s the bigger goal of being able   to get back and be walking or running or whatever,  but there was like small, incremental goals,   and I think that mindset helped me to, like,  get back, like, I was able to think of it in,   like, a sporting context, knowing that,  you know, it's not going to happen, like,   you know, straight away, and there might be  some steps backwards, but like, just keep   working towards the small goals and pushing  myself. I think you're able to push yourself   that little bit further when you're an athlete,  because you're so used to having to dig deep,   you know, into that hole, like, and be able to,  like, push past that, you know, that pain barrier.   But my physio loved me because she was literally  just like, “Okay, we're gonna keep going, like,   we're doing this,” and she was like, “Okay!”  And we had, like, it was like a gym, and like,   I was, you know, trying to, like, run across  it, and she was like, “I think we've, like,   outgrown this, like, I've never gotten to this  point with, like, any of my patients, but like,   I thought we’ve outgrown this.” So, we had to,  like, think outside the box. But yeah, it made   it kind of like, fun like, not fun, but like, I  think more fun, because I was an athlete, I was   able to kind of, just yeah, kind of, just switch  into that, kind of, mindset of, like, rehabbing. Yeah, I think, you know, I'm working with stroke  victims now myself, just, you know, I realised the   advantage I had as an athlete, because they don’t  understand that, like you said, I mean it’s like,   they're so focused every day on the big goal,  like, ‘I have to be walking again and I'm still   not walking!’ Like, that can't be the goal! When  you're so far from walking, the goal has to be, to   be walking better today than you were yesterday.  The goal has to be, you know, you just break down   these things, you know, into you know, the big  goal, into a lot of smaller goals, and that has   to be the thing that you’re focused on, and that's  really difficult, I think, for the average person   to understand. But, because we're athletes,  yeah we get that, you know, and you just sort   of automatically, like you said, click into this  mindset of, ‘Next step, next step, next step.’ You know, one day, like, my foot, literally I had  zero movement in my foot and like, I was working   one day just to get like, a flicker of like, my  foot, like, you know, just being able to twitch   my toes up. And some people would be like, “Oh  well, you know, that's nothing, like, you're not   able to, like, you know, walk on that leg.” And  I was literally like, “Yeah! There’s a flicker!” It's crazy, yeah, you celebrate that! Like, you’re  celebrating this tiny little, exactly! Yeah,   you celebrate that, and that makes you, it's what  motivates you as well to come back the next day,   because you see that improvement. We  thrive on incremental improvement. Yeah, literally, I was like, “Okay,  we’ve got a little movement now, like,   we can go again!” And that’s it,  like, we’re just so used to, like,   being like, “Okay, just a little bit more,  a little bit more!” So yeah, like you say,   I think it’s such an advantage, you  know, having that athletic background.   But yeah, it was a pretty hard time, but I think,  again just like, the drive to get back into sport,   I was like, “Okay, I’ve got, there's a world  championships in, like, parasport next year.”   I'm like, “Well, let's see if we can get to  the World Championships.” So that's what I did! Yeah Kadeena, talk a little bit about that  transition though. I mean, you, you mentioned   it very quickly, like, sort of, “Oh, you know,  I figured out that there was a Paralympic World   Championship coming up in four months,” but you  had already been an able-bodied athlete. So talk   about just, you know, that transition to, “Okay,  I'm no longer now going to be an able-bodied   athlete. I'm going to compete in a completely  different category now, as a paralympic athlete.” Yeah I think, when I was diagnosed with MS it  was, kind of, in my head, I was like, “It doesn't   matter whether I compete able-bodied or para, I  just want to get back into competing.” Because I   think, I've been running, like, since I was like  14, like competitively, and it just becomes such a   big part of your life and I felt like it was part  of, like, my identity, and I was like, ‘I don't   want to lose that.’ So I just kind of was like,  I'm just gonna get back into training and I very   quickly learnt that I probably was never gonna  run as an able-bodied athlete again, when like,   yeah, I realised my coordination was really bad,  like, my balance was bad. But that was all, like,   interesting and challenging in, like, in different  ways, because I had to now navigate this new body,   like, you know, you get into a set of blocks  that you’ve done like a million times before,   like because, you know, as an athlete you just,  you go out of blocks, like, I’ve done that for   years. And yeah, literally like, I remember the  first time I went out of blocks, and I literally   went out, like, I think I did one step and then  just, like, stumbled and fell, because I just   didn't have the balance or coordination for it.  So I had to relearn how to do things that I'd just   done for years that became natural to me, which  was quite challenging. And then I had to kind   of change my mindset around being a paralympic  athlete, because I went from kind of running,   like, some times that were decent, but I was  like, nowhere in the world, to then, you know,   running times that were considerably slower than  what I used to run. But then I was like, you know,   top eight, top six in the world and I was like,  now I've got to flip my mindset and be like,   “Okay, like, yes, you're slower, but actually  you're, you’re doing well, like, in comparison to,   like, the rest of the world that have similar  impairments,” and that was a hard switch to try,   like, get my head around. And that's probably  what nearly made me quit doing athletics,   because I just couldn't get my head around the  fact that I was slower, even though I was better,   if that makes sense. That was probably  the hardest thing to get my head around. Yeah, I mean you talked about, you know,   almost quitting. What was it that made you  decide to keep going with it and stay with it? So I wanted to, like, any athlete that kind  of competes, I was like, ‘I want to get my GB   kit and go to a major championships.’ So I got  selected for the World Champs in Doha in 2015,   which was a year after I'd had my MS diagnosis.  I was like, ‘I just want to tick off doing a   major championships in athletics, and I'd  be good.’ And I went to the championships   and just remembered exactly why I love,  like, athletics. Like, I love competing,   like, I was out there and, you know, the  crowds are like, you know, screaming,   like I was able to, I broke a world record in  like the first round, and like, I was just like,   “This is exciting!” Like, I just got that buzz and  that joy and I just loved being around the team,   like, and just the environment and I was  just like, ‘I can't walk away from this!’ So initially you began cycling as rehabilitation,  and you became rather good very quickly at that.   How did your coaches or family think about you  doing another sport versus what you were doing? So yes, so I literally got good at cycling. I just  was using it as rehab when I couldn't run because   of my balance. So, I was on a wattbike, someone  said, like, “You've got pretty decent power.” So I   spoke to British cycle, and they were like, “You  could be really, really good.” And I was like,   “Okay, cool, never rode in the Velodrome before.”  I remember, like, my first, like, the day before   the first time I rode on the Velodrome, I'd  not rode a bike, like a moving bike since pre,   like, MS, so I think my brother must have been  like, 9 or 10 at that point, so I was like. He   had a Ben 10 bike, and I was like, “Can I borrow  your bike? I just need to see if I can ride your   bike.” So I was like, riding down the street at  my mom's house on this Ben 10 bike and I was like,   “I can do it, mom, I can do it!” And that  was like, me like, being like, “Yeah, I can   be a cyclist now.” Wasn’t quite so simple! But  yeah, like, I got into it and probably for like,   the majority of 2015 I was kind of like, “Yeah,  I'm just doing a little bit of cycling,” when   I was talking to, like, British athletics,  and when I was talking to British Cycling,   I was like, “Yeah, I'm just doing a little bit of  running.” And I kind of kept it quite quiet for   like the first, like, probably, like six months  or more. And it wasn't until I got selected for   the athletics World Championships, my cycling  coach was like, “Sorry, what?” He was like,   “I didn't realise you were, like, properly,  like, competing,” and I was like, “Well,   I told you I was running.” He was like, “Yeah,  no, you didn't give me all the information!” You’re like, “Surprise!” Yeah, I was like, “You should have asked for more  details!” So yeah, it didn't go down too well,   which is why I had to make the decision, because  weirdly, at that point, they kind of was like,   ‘Well, no athlete can be elite in two different  sports,” and that's just probably not something   you say to me! You tell me, “that’s not gonna, I  can’t, I can’t do it” or “it’s not gonna happen”,   I'm going to be like, “Okay, cool, let's  do this.” Like, so yeah, that probably,   like, spurred me on to want to do it. But yeah,  they weren't particularly happy, because they   just thought it'd impact my performance in like,  you know, either one too much. My mum was like,   “Do you,” like, she was like, “You're built to do  this, do what makes you happy.” So my family were   like, 100% behind me, but yeah, took a little  while for, like, my coaches to get behind it. So, what's it like racing in the  Velodrome versus, like, you know,   on like a road course or something  like that, because it's banked right? Yeah, so I actually didn't go to the  top of the track until after Rio,   which was my first Paralympics. I like, I  didn’t, I’d never been to the top of the track,   which everyone was like, “You've  not been to the top of the track,   and you’re Paralympic champion?” And I  was like, “I don't need to be up there.” The shortest is around the bottom, right? Exactly, that's the fastest route, that's  all I need to know! I’m here for the gains,   so yeah, yeah, I’m, I'm scared of heights as  well, so it took me a while to kind of get   used to that, I don't really go to the top  now, like. But, yeah, it's not quite, like,   just riding on the road. I don't like riding  on the road either, because there's hills,   I don't like anything that goes up basically.  But, it is fun, like, I do enjoy riding, like,   because you do get the speed from like, coming  down the track, which is really fun, which, yeah,   you just go faster, and the bonus of racing in  the Velodrome is because it's like indoor, and   there's, like, a roof on it, like, when people,  like, start cheering, like, the noise is unreal! Like, the roof's about to come off and  like, if they're shouting your name,   or, like, you know, “Come on GB.” Like,  that literally like, Michael will know,   you know that last like bit, that last  like, 50 metres of like the 400, like,   it's the same in like, the 500 metre Time  Trial, like, your legs are burning! But like,   you know that crowd, like, they get you going,  and like I say the velodrome just, like, the   noise just kind of, just like, radiates because  you’ve got that lid on it, like I was saying. So talking about the end of the  400 metres, which, yeah, I mean,   lactic acid starts to build up at the end of that  400 like you wouldn't believe. For me, it was,   I mean I trained, I mean training was harder for  me, actually, from that aspect, because I was a   200 metre runner coming up to the 400 which is  about my limit. For you, talk about, you know,   just kind of that experience for you, that,  that end of the 400 and what that feels like. Oh, it's horrible! It's not the most  enjoyable feeling in the world. I think   you have to be crazy to be a 400 metre  runner honestly. But I, I don't know,   I feel like your whole mind just like, literally  just goes numb and you're literally just like,   “Get me to that line!” And I try to hold my form,  but I just basically think if I run a good enough   300 then I should be far enough ahead, that  all I've got to do is just keep it together,   “I'm like, Just keep it together Kads, like,  keep it together and they won't catch you!” But   it's just horrible, your legs just feel like  they're flooding, they feel like, you know,   you’re going through, like, concrete, like  concrete legs going through treacle, like,   it's just not the most enjoyable feeling. And  then you finish, but your legs still hurt. It sounds simple, all you have to do at  the end of the 400 metres is hold form,   right? But it is very, very difficult,  because your body wants to just give up. Hold form but you look like you're swimming! Yeah, yeah, and your body wants to just give up! So as somebody who's watching, right? The most  exciting part of it can be the last part of   the race. So, where we are getting the most  excitement of you guys, “It's really close,   who's going to win?” For you guys, that's when  it's burning the most and you're in the most,   like, “Let me just get finished!” Yeah, it's a little different from our  perspective. We're hoping that it's not   that exciting. We're hoping we're just  so far ahead that, we’re hoping like,   “I hope this doesn't get exciting!” Have you  ever been in one of those situations where you   are ahead and then you start hearing the  crowd roaring more? You're like, “Well,   what's happening behind me?” Because you know what  that means if you start hearing the crowd, because   you can't see! And you hope you don't hear that,  because that means someone is coming to get you. And they're literally cheering for that person  to close in on you, and you’re like, “No!” Exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. That actually means I have  another question on the bike,   do you have mirrors? So can you see them  coming up behind you? Like, in that scenario? Oh, no, like you can't see them at all. Mirrors? Like on a bike? Do you have a horn? I wish I had mirrors! What do you think. Beep beep. This is track cycling man! They’re not like  out on a side walk! So when she was younger,   and she was riding a little brother's bike  that she had, you know the Ben 10 bike,   but now I mean she's not still riding a Ben 10  bike in the Velodrome! You got a basket on that? A basket and a horn! That’s, you got to carry all  those medals, you gotta get them home somehow! She's got one lap to go and she is still leading. She's on fire. Those burning, flaming  shoes are doing the job. Kadeena Cox   on the back straight now gotta bring it home. Yeah she's extending her lead with a quarter  of a lap to go. The gold medal will go to… Kadeena Cox! Well done, the gold medal! So you, talk, let’s talk about  classification, because you got,   you got reclassified before, was that before 2016? Yeah. So, I mean, I think for like, for the non-para  person, the classification is really difficult   to understand. So in your best sort  of, you know, synopsis, explain to us,   you know, what happened, using yourself  as an example and your reclassification,   like, how does that work?  And what happened with you? I mean, the neurological conditions are  really hard, like, to understand, because   it’s somewhat subjective. Obviously, if you've got  someone that's, you know, missing a limb, like,   you can see, like, it's not there, you can measure  it, whereas, like, yeah, with a neurological,   it's kind of a bit more subjective. So, for  me, I've got MS, which affects that I've got   muscle spasms and spasticity, which is what the  classification, the neurological classifications   are based on. So it's kind of the level of your  spasticity. So, so I went from being a 37 to a   38 because I had, I don’t know, I think I may have  had another relapse in between my classifications.   But I had three limbs affected, so because three  limbs were affected, I was no longer hemiplegic,   so I couldn't be a 37 but I was too able to be a  36, so I just got whacked into the 38 which wasn’t   ideal, and the same happened in cycling. I went  from being a C2 which is, kind of yeah, a higher   level of impairment and basically I was told I  rode too well, so they put me as a C4 which was,   yeah, two classifications higher and even the  people in that class were like, “Oh, it's not   fair that she's here, like, you know, you're more  impaired, you should be in a different class.” And   then I raced them, and they were like, “Okay, no,  it's not fair that she's here, she's too good!” So typically, so the classification  is following you, it sounds like! The   level of difficulty just follows you. Wherever  you are is most difficult for everyone else. You're like a trendsetter. I mean, I like to try, but it makes  my life harder, I’ll tell you that! The final of the women's 400 metres T38.  And away they go, Cox out strongly in lane… So, at Rio it is my understanding  that you are the first person   in 32 years to earn two gold medals in two  different sports at the Paralympic Games. That's   insane. Like, that's, that’s awesome, right?  Like, tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing  until, like, a newspaper article came out,   and I was like, “Oh, that's cool!” I didn’t know!  I was like, “I just want to do the two sports,   someone told me I can't do it, so I'm going  to do it.” That was my mindset. And I just,   I enjoy doing what I do, and  I enjoy challenging the norm,   I guess. So I was like, I'm just  going to go out there and like,   enjoy my 2 sports and be the best version of me.  And, yeah, I made a bit of history along the way. You duplicated that in Tokyo with double gold  again, right? I mean, so now going into Paris,   how are you feeling about your chances  to, you know, three-peat and do it again? No pressure. No pressure! I mean come on! You’re good, you’re good!  I'm not worried about you Kadeena. I'm not   worried about you and pressure. Right? None  of us are worried about you and pressure.   You've lost that privilege a long time  ago, after winning so many gold medals,   nobody's gonna give you any  sort of, “Oh, poor Kadeena,   she's under pressure.” You know, if anybody  can handle it, you have, you've proven that. Poor me! But, but how do you feel about, you know,  Paris, and there is a shorter window now   because of the Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics,  so how you feeling right now going into Paris? Obviously we lost that year, which I feel like  just made everything like, come around so quickly.   And I, so last August, I actually had a pretty bad  relapse, which totally wiped out my right side,   so I lost function down my right side again, so  I've had to rebuild, and because of the loss of   function, I've kept tearing muscles on my right  side, so I had a really bad calf tear, I had a   quad tear, and now I've got achilles issues. So  training has not been smooth, and I’d like to say,   like, you know, “Poor me!” But then also, I've  literally been in this position before pretty   much every, like, major championship. So I'm like,  ‘Okay, maybe we're just gonna do this all over   again.’ So I’m, I’m, don’t know, I kind of say I’m  nervous, like, I'm nervous in some ways, but also,   like, right now I'm in a good place, like we've  had like, a few, like, really good weeks of   training, and things are coming together. And  although it feels like time's like running away   from me, I also know, like, I've done it before  on, like, limited time, so I have faith in the   more mature senior athlete being able to, like, go  out there and do what I need to do. And I think,   like, with this games, I actually just want  to enjoy it. Doing two sports is hard work,   and it's gotten harder, like, the older I've  got, but it's still an impressive thing, so like,   I just want to go to the games and actually, like,  be able to enjoy it. Like Rio was a whirlwind,   and I don't even remember what happened half  the time. Tokyo, like, it was, you know,   the Covid games, so it just wasn't quite what we  expected. It’s like Paris, one it's just across,   like, the river. I’m going to call it home. It’s  just over the way! So it means, like, you know,   loads of family and friends, like, there's  going to be so many British supporters, like,   it’s great that, like, my family are all going to  be there, and like, it's going to be the first,   like, kind of post-Covid games. So I'm  just really looking forward to, like,   enjoying a games, and I'm hoping just  that enjoyment and that chill, and,   yeah, the little bit of training I've done,  is gonna make up for the lack of training! Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I had the same   experience and my first games was 1992  and, you know, obviously, first games… I was 1 then. Thank you Kadeena, thank you for that  reminder Kadeena, I appreciate that!   It's a good thing we know each other!  It's a good thing we know each other! Yeah, so yeah, so that was my first, 1992. You  know, obviously I wanted to do well, nervous and   just kind of focused. And ‘96 was a home games  for me and I'm going after history, and so I   remember 2000 being the first games, that was my  last games, but it was the only one where I really   got a chance to just enjoy it. I wasn't doing the  double, I was just doing it 400 metres and it was   a great experience to be able to just be at the  games and, you know, enjoy it. It's also enjoyable   to win too, so I won, so that made it better! But  yeah, I know what you mean, you do want to be able   to, and I do have great memories from that games,  you know, different than the other two, because   I was able to just sort of take it in as an  athlete at the games, instead of being, you know,   just so focused, so you deserve to enjoy it, but I  think you'll bring home some gold medals as well. I mean, that's the plan, you know,  I'm trying to be like you, Michael. Okay, so as somebody, I've only won  a silver so far at the Paralympics,   so I don't get to bite ‘em. But you’ve bit  your gold medals. Do you bite your gold medals? I feel like you've got to do  that signature photo, if you've   not done it, like are you even a gold medalist? So the question is, is that… It’s interesting, because I don't have  a single photo of me ever doing that,   every time the photographers  would ask me to do it,   I refuse. Like this seems weird.  This feels weird, so I never did it! It tastes funny probably, right? Well, it depends on who handed it to you and   where their hands have been. So  maybe that's why I didn't do it. We're talking gold medals. It's perfect. It’s true, it’s true, When you’re talking  gold medals, everything’s fair game. That's true. So I do have a question for  you, so there have been times for me,   the latest example, I might be walking  through a store, grocery shopping,   and there'll be a kid that'd be like, “Hey, Mom,  that guy has no arms,” right? But the reality is,   is that not every disability is visible,  right? There's still a lot of ignorance   about it, and it's my understanding you've  encountered some bullying because of that. Yeah, it's, I have a really annoying disability.  Like, some days I'm like, could we have not picked   a different one? Like, if I had the option to  pick a disability, it would not be this one! Having no arms is pretty good. Haha do you want to trade? I get like, a lot of  online abuse, saying, like, “I'm fake disabled,”   and like, “Oh, like, you're a part time like,  handicap.” I'm literally just like, “Wow!” Like,   you know, “Did your parents not teach you to  say nicer things?” Because people like, I'm,   you know, posting videos of like me, you know,  struggling to walk or in my wheelchair, and then,   like, you know, a video of like me on a different  day, like, saying, you know, I might look fine,   but actually I'm probably in more pain because,  like, I'm having to, like, try battle through,   like, you know, the pain that I've got in my  body. And people just don't understand that   concept. And that's why I post, to try, like,  kind of be like, you know, it's not always what   you can see that's like, the problem. And  like, people go through different things,   and I'm trying to educate people on that,  but yeah, instead of people being educated,   they just give me abuse. So I've been getting  called names for the last few days, and I'm like,   “Okay, I didn't choose my disability,  but I'm here and I'm classified so,   you know, if the classifiers have said I'm  classifiable, then clearly I'm classifiable.” Your spirit is awesome! I was gonna say that too. Obviously, it's hurtful,   you know, and I'm sure disappointing. You know,  do you feel like you have to go around trying to   prove your disability? That just would seem  like a really difficult position to be in. Yeah I think, like, a few years ago definitely  felt like I had to prove, like, you know,   how my condition actually impacts me. But  now I'm just, I'm really not bothered. Like,   I’m just like, at the end of the day, like, as  long as the classifiers say I'm classifiable,   then I'm just gonna turn up and do what I do  best, which is, you know, running and cycling.   We've got, you know, two twins, one's a 400  metre flat runner, one's a 400 metre hurdler,   and they're both able to compete as able-bodied  athletes. And then you've got me, who's like,   you know, the other end of the spectrum. So  it is a spectrum, and trying to get people   to understand that is something I enjoy doing  and I've just kind of taken that route of,   like, educating as opposed to, like, being  offended by it. And I just kind of, yeah,   I’m just like, if you want to be ignorant,  be ignorant, like, it is what it is. Yeah, you're the only black British  cyclist to ever win a gold medal at   an Olympic or Paralympic Games.  So, that's cool, right? But,   I mean, I understand you want to try to, you want  to change that. Talk a little bit about that. I live in a country which is very multicultural,  yet still, you know, I'm the only gold medalist   within, like, cycling. And if it was just the  Paralympics, I'd be like, “Oh okay,” but yeah,   the fact that it's kind of both Olympic and  Paralympics, I was like, “There's something not   quite right here.” So I basically decided I wanted  to try help more people from, kind of, a similar   background to me get into cycling. I think,  it is a harder sport to get into, it’s quite a   niche sport, like, it is like a white male middle  class sport. Half the people here are called John,   literally half the staff are called John. So yeah  it is like, it is like, yeah, very much like,   and yeah it’s like, it’s more male as well, so  there’s a lot going on here, so I decided I was   going to set up a cycling academy to try and get  more people from a black background into cycling.   Like, I never would have got into cycling had it  have not been for the fact that I had my stroke   and I lived in Manchester, which had a velodrome.  Like, no one from my area would get into cycling,   but I feel like your background shouldn't prevent  you from doing that. But because of, you know,   cycling being such a niche sport, because it's  so expensive, like, I had to fundraise for my   first bike, and I didn't want other people to have  that as a roadblock. So I was like, you know what,   let's take all that out. I'm going to support  these riders, and if you've got the talent, I'm   going to try get you as high as you can. So yeah,  it's great to see like my teammate, Rihanna, who   is now like my little sister, and the same for one  of the Para riders, Sam, he's now world champion   as well. So it's great to see that like, actually,  what I'm doing is, like, it's having an effect and   now we've got more people in like, at the top,  it's like, okay, little kids can look up and be   like, “Oh, I want to be like, you know, Sam or  Rihanna or Kadeena!” Because I feel like, if you   see someone, like, that looks like you, you feel  more like you can be that, if that makes sense. You’re doing great work! You’re such an amazing   role model for young black  kids, for paralympic kids. Of course you have an amazing academy,  right? So since this is a podcast,   some people might not understand what you're  wearing, so can you explain your academy kit? Yeah, like, my academy kit is actually so sick  because I designed it, I'm just going to put   that out there! The colours I wanted were  orange and black. So it's basically, like,   orange and black lines, like, kind of all,  like, jiggled together, it looks very like, Fast! ‘Jiggledy’! I can't even explain it, like there's  a lot going on, it looks hectic, it is basically   my brain, so yeah we got like, and it does stand  out, which is pretty cool and people are like,   “Oh, what's that?” And I'm like, “Oh, yeah, that's  the KC Academy.” And I have to say KC, because   if I say Kadeena Cox, then it makes me feel  really weird, because I'm like, “Oh, that's me!” It looks really cool! It does! Yeah, yeah. Is there, is there like a, I  was just thinking about something, like,   is there, like, a tandem on the Velodrome,  like, with two people? Do they do that? Yeah. I'm just thinking about, like, whether or not,  because, like, Matt's always trying to get me   to do stuff with him, like that he shouldn't be  doing, like, riding with him, like on a motorcycle   or something like that! I wondered if, given  your experience in the Velodrome, and you would,   you know, just when you were talking about just  kind of visualising you and Matt on the bike in   the velodrome where Matt, Matt's in front,  Matt's, like, guiding. Would you do that? Oh wow! Um I mean… I mean you were talking about skeleton, you were   talking about all of this crazy stuff. I  mean so I’m giving you the opportunity. You like to go fast. Yeah when I'm in control! Michael doesn't let me drive  either. So I'm okay with,   I'm okay with being passenger,  as long as we're winning. Yeah, yeah, I can do that. I can roll with that. Ah, no, this has been great. Thanks so much,   Kadeena, it’s been fantastic talking  to you. Good luck in Paris this summer. Yes, it's been awesome. I can't wait to see you.  I will be there as well, so make sure you come   up. I'll be the guy without arms. Just come on  up to me, I would love to meet you in person! Yeah, no, it will be great! I will  definitely come and find you. I mean,   I know I'm supposed to be competing, but I  love socialising, so we'll do a bit of both. Sounds good to me. Come and watch the Velodrome stuff like  you'll hear how noisy it is. It's so great! You will not hear me clapping. But I will  be cheering in my head! Just letting you   know. So if you ride by me and you are  like, “Why isn’t that guy…” My standing   ovation is just me standing there. So just,  just know that I am cheering for you, okay. Thanking you! Thanks guys for having me! What a talent. I'm really  looking forward to seeing   her in Paris. I'm sure she's gonna do great. That's all we got today on this episode of  ‘Rising Phoenix: What Does It Take?’ A podcast   brought to you by the creators of the Emmy award  winning show, Rising Phoenix. Supported by global   partners Adidas and Procter and Gamble, the  proud makers of Oral-B, Pampers and Gillette. ♪ I’m a rising phoenix ♪ ♪ I rise above you ♪♪