THE APE TESTIMONY PROJECT: CONNIE CASEY

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] place us and a surrogate water ah let's see if you could be there I think there's a good chance if we start talking because every time I get on the phone she start talking yes this will happen yeah oh gosh Gibbons the cat's a hot pollutions I've had of this baboon uh-huh commander dogs cat dogs pony I think I saw it honey there's some miniature horse [Music] ah I've always had a love for animals aha my parents weren't exactly animal people as far as having animals in the house huh so once I once I and I got married very young but went so hot when I got married my husband really loved and also huh it went from okay not really no animals in the house to where it's like okay we look like animals so sleep it was fun uh-huh no you didn't have your parents to tell you you know yeah our husband that would say no anyway because we both like Dan'l's we did have a lot of exotic pets uh-huh but then we opened up a pet shop back in 69 uh-huh we had a pet shop from 69 to 79 uh-huh yeah my first jump in 1972 to eh like 23 years old and we got a second chunk about a year and a half later uh-huh female that's somebody had gotten is at that back then it was easier and again uh-huh because actually those two chimps were still wild caught you know and through quarantine but after 1975 they'd been importing which is good but I just so you you've got these these chimps and did they did they live in the petrol to move in your house how did you actually the ketchup was lower level of your house yes sir oh right all right so I think the pet shop was in the lower uh-huh you know and then we lived up here upstairs but needless to say that you know the chimp slept with us at night they did they flip in your bed yes yeah and um what did it feel like I always wonder because I haven't had many encounters with chimps what what did it feel like to meet the chimps for the first time how how did how did you develop Emily you know because the the first chimp I got was in 1972 Coco Coco was a cup with Coco yeah uh-huh and he you know because actually he probably could have witnessed his mother being killed like I don't know you know then back then you didn't think about just they were available he was scared we would sit in a circle my husband and I and my three kids would sit in a circle with little pieces of peanut or raisin or something in our mouth then he would come over and crawl up on his lap and just gently take it out of her mouth with his lips but he was actually at that time he was scared to be picked up you know and so it was like an everyday routine two or three times a day you know everybody's set in the circle and let him come up on you and it probably wasn't it seemed like a long time back then but it was probably only about a month tour he went from not wanting to be picked up or held to be wanting to be carried around all the time and you know basically my children grew up as cocoa as their brother and then like said a couple of years later we acquired a female chimp that some people had gotten as a pet and then they ended up having a baby and she was pregnant with her second baby and I guess they decided that you know though the bigger responsibility was with the kids what was her name her name was Bridget Bridget and did she do the chimps like your kids the kids like the chips how'd they get along uh with my kids yeah yeah they love the kids Lisa Sam Sheila they they grew up with him like I said it was like they're they're brother and sister uh I don't know you're you're young but there's a an old movie out called Toby Tyler mm-hmm and I get I was in grade school when that came out but I seen that movie it was about a little boy that ran away at the circus and he he was the one that was playing with the chimp and taking care of the chimp and I guess that's what really got me interested in the chimps you know although like I said we'd been animal lovers forever but we had we had the pet shop here and we knew that in 1975 they were going to be banning the importing and we figured if we were but at that time we thought if we've already gonna get a chunk we better get one now but that's how it happened I was basically like a dream come true you know chimps are big and strong and I'm not saying they're that's for everybody but for somebody that's really dedicated and loves them there's there's nothing better than a baby chip in your arms yeah very close to having your human baby you know and I shouldn't say this but it was almost even more thrilling because it was extra special not that my kids weren't special thing it was just a different feeling you know I wish I could hold one you know there's nothing like it nothing like a baby chimp and but then they're still just as special when they grow up they're just not as cute you know did they look in your face the way babies do oh yeah bury the bond is very similar to to a human child baby chimps don't cry very much you know they're a lot more content the thing you know it was easier with the baby chimp can just once to get to be about a year old you can put him on your back and walk around I mean I used to clean cages with chimps on my back you know back then and I'm talking more than 50 years ago you know it was it was easy because there wasn't so many rules and laws and restrictions you know Coco used to play outside with the kids actually we would let him play outside with the kids until after he was already a father he was probably like 12 years old anyway the people that live next door their little boy grew up kind of around the chimps and his older brothers in Cocoa at 12 years old pilgrim chimp would if he would play in the yard as long as you watched him and called him he would stay but if he got like three quarters across the yard he would take off and go over and go walking in their house and get this five-year-old kid by the hand and bring him over here to play with him yeah I would yeah anyway his mom would say she come down to get him a little bit later and she'd say Coco came over and gotten Scully and I didn't want to tell him no but it's time for Scully that's a little boys thing come home now you know and then actually the first baby we had his name was Bo and and then SCOE would come over and play with him and he was just a baby but Bo would climb up on him and Bo was really he was bad about sucking on you so he I mean at that time I was still working part time and I go to work with hickeys of my neck you know from the chimp you know anyway his mom at one time a little score came over and she says miss Connie monster I could come play with Bo but if I come home with one more suck mark I'm gonna get a weapon so will you make him not suck on me anyway she said it was really hard explaining to the kindergarten teacher where the hickeys were coming but you know things were fun back then and and it's just a lot different because a chimp now like with things have changed it's like you can let him run loose you know for their safety or against other people's safety - it's hard for people to believe but chimpanzees have a natural instinct that they're extremely gentle with babies and I guess at the time they see still consider him a baby and they're extremely gentle with handicapped and they're extremely gentle with elderly people and so he was just gentle it's like he would push actually Coco would push him around on the tricycle you know Coco puts the little boy on the tricycle see Coco ever get on the tricycle Oh Coco was pretty big oh it was it was too big for the bike yeah you know I just there's so many stories because you know he played out in the yard with the kids and he was always super gentle and super good you know at that time we always had dogs and we had this little Boston Terrier that was actually one of cocles best dogs dog friend and he would Coco would dangle his lead because we just let him go but we had a lead on anyway he dangled the lead so the dog would get ahold of the lead and then you know the Boston Terrier would lock their jaws in pretty tight and then Coco would will him up put him under his arm and climb climb those big trees out there hanging onto the dog yeah a lot of times he would take the dog and get on top of the house the dog would be running up up on the roof and Coco was right there and he's letting go but he'd always catch the top before he got something you know that's things like now bass people would think oh man that's crazy or that's cruel but the dog loves it you know then what happened that they did you just acquire more or how this I let's say that the other somebody had contact us they had two adult chimps that they had his babies but the husband's health was bad anyway we acquired those two chimps it was another pair and so they they brought them here and then actually trying to even think because there was a person that had called us that had a couple chimps that was in research not evasive research some communication studies are sleeping anyway they were looking for a place for June we took those it's like I guess it was just hard to say no when you when you've had them and you've you've lived with them it was just it was hard to say no you know because the other option back then would have probably been going into a another research facility that made you know biomedical research how did you introduce the chimps to each other it's like some of them was easy but you have to do it kind of slow introduce them like side by side a lot of times and you would like pull one chimp out and put the other one in so those two got acquainted and then maybe pull the other one out you know it should it's sometime it took months to get them to where they were actually you know like a social group without being just you do it whatever works oh I guess you always have this kind of like you wouldn't want to tell your kid you know they're all special they're all special the second pair that I told you you saw outside in the big enclosure the old chimp that came here that didn't doesn't have any teeth she was a retired performer she came here in 86 as an adult but she was really good friends with them I can tell you when the guy brought her here and he didn't get here till late at night and she she was not caged very seldom because he was with her all the time but she came in she was dressed she was dressed like a boy but we talked and she was getting tired and at that time the couch was over on the other side anyway she walked over and she took her shoes she had shoes on she took her shoes off and she took her socks off and she put her socks inside her shoes and pulled the Afghan over and laid down on the couch and fell asleep that's Kimmy so Kimmy is the one that 60 yes yeah but but I guess the story I'm backing up her and Gabi were very best friends and I can tell you I mean and there's been other incidents but at one point Gabby had crystal little girl that's out there she had the baby and she didn't pass the placenta anyway when I went back there which it's that room with little girls are now I noticed that kymmie was carrying this baby you know and I knew Kimmy was pregnant but I thought she did she wasn't due anyway so oh my god I can't believe she had her baby before Gabi did because I I knew Gabi was closer anyway when I looked over in the corner there was a lot of blood and Gabi was just laying there and she was a really pale anyway she would take that baby and carry it around and when the baby started whimpering that it was hungry she'd walk back over and take the baby and give it back to Gabby to nurse and when I got done nursing she would pick it up and carry it around this was the day it was born you know I had called dr. Doug and told him you know there's a problem you know there's something wrong with Gabi you know she she did fine after that but because of that baby bonding with her she that baby grew up with two months you know and they were older moms they were both probably in their forties when they had her all right so it reminds me a lot of the story with the jane goodall Flint the flow because flow was an old chimp and she had had several babies so it's kind of like humans you know with your first baby you want to you worry about everything and everything's got to be perfect and your second baby you're not quite but time you have your third baby it's like as long as it's fed and it's not frying and doesn't have a dirty diaper it's fine and and it was kind you know the older the moms are the more spoilt the babies are and because she had two moms and two older moms they let her get by with whatever she wanted and she's very spoiled chimp I lost Gabby I'm sorry did they did they get pregnant from the other chimps yeah Wow no dr. Doug came down I'm sure yes and will will at it but and so did you ever help I was with the mothering sometimes I've heard yeah you know it's like some moms are very good moms and take really good care of the babies some moms are good for a couple weeks and then you know as us with human you can lay the baby down and go do other stuff the chump moms you know those babies are on them all the time and those babies even though they're teeny babies they are strong and hang on and pull hair I think sometimes the moms just get tired [Applause] it gets everybody upset so first you know we pull babies because of that reason you know I've had to take babies of the day they were born because the moms just wouldn't take care of them but they don't throw him in a dumpster like people do since we just had a little interruption would you like to explain oh I just entered the conversation that's uh that's Andy my adult female Gibbon and she likes to be the center of attention so a lot of times when you're talking it's like she wants to be vocal because she likes to enter and well now she's what's your name again her name's Andy Andy Andy so now you there you're a star and what happened next so tell us more about the growth of the farm or what would you call it a farm or uh you know it's more like a rescue sanctuary sanctuary okay um I don't know it's just it's a love for the chimps you know I don't know I don't know what else to tell you just you're there yeah how did you do it I mean you didn't know it's you just learned by you know the way experience it just instinct experience for whatever I you know I think if you've raised a child and you're a good mom kind of your instincts take over and I'm sure there's books out there but most of it was just I didn't read a book on how to raise a zebra a chimp it just that's what I can tell you the first baby that was born though I he's the one that really would suck hickeys on your neck mm-hmm and what was his name his name was Paul but he slept he slept with me and he did it so quick you didn't it's like by the time you realize he was sucking on you you already had a hit you know I went to work a lot with he would I always he always had a bottle even when he was nine years old it was just what he did he would he was a good eater but when he went to bed at night I get fix him a bottle and there was lots of times like he drink his bottle and go to sleep but if he'd wake up during the night he thought he had to have another bottle and so I'd lay there and act like I was sleeping and it's like he'd start making the kissing noises and he try my hand open and put the bottle in this hand and I still like act like I was sleeping the next thing you know he'd take the bottle and he'd pry my other hand open and put the bottle in that hand you know and that went back and forth and then if that didn't work I didn't get up and get him another bottle he slowly take his feet and you start pushing me out of bed you know it's just what happened - they usually start crawling baby most of them but they don't order to actually let go to try to walk until they're close to a year old some some early ones maybe nine months but between nine months of the year before they'll actually let go and start taking some steps which is very similar to it's just the growth then the development is so much so similar really between and except they have the ability from birth to hang on and hang on tight you know so I think probably their their motor skills like the the brain function - motor skills is a lot more prolific I'm probably more developed in a baby chimp at birth than it is a human baby but it's very similar does that mean also their sense of understanding in other words did you - I assumed you were talking to the chimps and talking to your children and right how did how about that that sense of you know it's they understand it's like sometimes you don't think they're paying attention and they do I can tell you when when Coco was little my kids were little and I mean he was with us he was out all the time and at one point on the bathroom downstairs there was a leak and my husband had had the pliers and the pipe wrench and was undoing the wire of the pipe to fasten another connection anyway he put the he put the wrench and the pipe wrench down and the one that you have bathroom here I'm disconnecting it you know so when he went to turn the water back on you know a squirting all over the place but that you don't even realize that there was like a mountains you don't even realize that you're without paying attention my first husband passed away in 80s in Cocoa used to it was routine every Sunday and my husband and the chip would take off on the motorcycle you know and at this point so what the chip behind his back when people would start going down the road it looked like the chimp was driving because she couldn't even see still on the phone on the bike you know also just just so you know it's like because he would take him riding the gas station is still at the end of the road but cuckold new feeling his weight over that he my husband either have to pull in or lose the bike you know and he got to work every time he'd go riding around cuz the people at the gas station would let the chimp have you know a good time I didn't have anything he wants so Coco knew well he stopped at the gas station he too got ice cream or soda or candy or whatever he wanted and it got to work my husband would drive 15 miles all the way to avoid the gas station cuz he said was embarrassing that you know the chip made him lean to go into the gas station all the time anyway she was just a teenager and she's my daughter but her and her boyfriend was sitting on the couch and the it looks the same but there was a couch over there within that cage wasn't there I was over in the kitchen doing something and all of a sudden I heard both screaming anyway come running over there and he said what happened he says I don't know but he just kept all of a sudden he just starts screaming Lisa said mom you remember that I said yeah he said she says Kevin just told me she said beau kept jumping up on the back of the couch and pulling his hair and he said he turned around and swatted him and that's why he screamed but he didn't tell us that when he was little I'd see one couple was little it wasn't the same kid I used to babysit for some people across the street and they had a and I got pictures they had a little baby and I started babysitting for that baby at three months old and Coco was probably around five at the time and he would forever crawling the baby bed and hold that baby and rocking and giving this bottle he loved that baby Coco got in a baby crib and cape model just they're amazing and you know because of the situation I'm not promoting them as pets you know it's it's just different now right so did you did you feel you can talk to them the way you talk to your kids oh yeah and they're like kids they they know you know I mean they know what they're supposed to do and what they not supposed to do they didn't they do some of them are outgoing someone more laid-back summer milk even Mikhail and Chloe there are only six months apart there have the same dad different moms and for the most part Chloe's a lot more outgoing more wanting more people's attention where Mikayla's she likes attention but she's kind of a loner too you know it's not like she demands the attention almost actually before they're three months old you know or I mean it's really easy to tell you know the different personalities what are the girls especially I guess hand raised babies girls are more dramatic you know it's like it gets folded their corrective and they throw a tantrum tell them no it runs their home day you know they don't forget well hello boys it's like you could tell leave it alone or don't mess with that or knock it off and you know they may whip for a minute and then they're off to something else it's just and it seems like that holds true with all all the ones that I've been around girls are a little bit more sneakier you know the boys especially once the boys get to be about nine years old it's like they want to tear stuff up and the girls wanna I'm like yes the boys the boys want to bang and make noise I guess maybe not but the girls they they want to figure out how things work and take it apart you know they don't want slam stuff around you know I can tell you there's been times I went downstairs and they've had blankets and they've had them tied in knots you know then you go back and they've got the night nut knots untied probably the first two only the first yeah well actually maybe another one the second pair was probably wild-caught too although probably probably Tony was Wonka because anything that would be now over 40 years old was actually probably a wild culture which is why I was asking you the question did you see a difference in the way the chimpanzees would would be behaved I can tell you because I didn't get the second pair till they were already adult so I don't know how I'm sure that they were probably wild calling animals too and but they had already been humanized never I got him and but I can tell you a Coco which is my very the first chimp that I got in 72 and he was probably about a year old maybe even a little bit older when I got him he he was scared of black people and he was scared of some anybody in a uniform but I only assume probably natives caught him and probably maybe going through quarantine and being in quarantine that maybe they were in uniform or something cuz I otherwise that I don't know why I mean that would have been an instinct thing it had to be something probably traumatic or you know there had to be some reason why he was scared but what if what they do if they saw someone in Arcanum copy you know you know their bark and like it like they're a threat and stay away from me some of them yeah and with you in the past I mean we did some commercial work with the chimps did like greeting cards you were convincing them to participate Windell they have when when you raise them the house and you raise them like a kid they understand so much more than them what most people would realize you know just because they don't do it doesn't mean they don't understand it kind of like it's good now but you know chimps will do especially hand raised jumps you know they love praise you know they don't when you tell them how good they are and how great they are they you know they like hearing you know so yeah well I don't know it's just easy because they always they were already to the point you can tell him go get this or pick that up or you know do that and most the things were pretty simple you know it wasn't real elaborate things that they had to do and then a lot of times they get a treat but they they would do stuff for you just because you give them a big hug afterwards you didn't you don't really have to give them a treat what was their relation to clothing into jewels and were they interested in that yeah you know what it's kind of like if that's how it that's how they're raised they don't really know I mean they get to a point once they get to be about six or seven day they really don't want to have clothes on who are they so tell us who showed up look so that's Kirby and Kaylee and candy how old are they on the picture you remember okay she was probably about four and he was probably three and he was probably too well this is this is Kirby and Kaylee and my granddaughter and grandson and yeah let's see they were close to the same age I guess the chimps were a tad bit younger but I'm thinking they must that here they must have been I don't know like she turned 30 last week so that's you know it's been a long time ago and this is the same three and like so these are my my grand grand children that's Kaylee and Ashley and Josh and Kirby let's see it says 96 back then when you got pictures developed it would a lot of them would put up the date on it says March 13th of 96 that's a cute picture that's my granddaughter Ashley and Kaylee and then this is Josh I'm probably with Kirby it's funny because even back then Kirby always seemed to play more with Josh and Kaylee always played more with Ashley so it was almost like it wasn't set up that way it's just what happened you know the girl played with the girl and the boy played with the boy more you know but you can see they're swinging anyway that was Easter this is Kirby and that's Kaylee yeah we did it it was fun they liked to but they soon found you know the little plastic ones head candy and it was or the hard-boiled eggs didn't and you know they would scoop up the plastic ones first yeah there that's a good picture that's Caelian Ashley that's Ashley when with two of the babies these are different babies that have been I think that one is I know that one was another one that we had called crystal but the people that got her name her something else and that's another chimp baby that we had but this is this one here would have been one of Kimmy's babies that was my Gabby's babies anyway you can see they're dressed alike they were yes so you still lived with about eight or nine or chimps right and some other assorted like monkeys and other animals and over the years you you get up with them you sleep tell me a little bit about your your day what it's like for you to live with these animals you know I've been doing it so long it's kind of like it's just the same thing I do every day you know yeah first thing especially which I don't have anybody with a bottle anymore but you know it's kind of like if you got a baby first thing we do when you get up is getting their bottle and you know taking care of and it's pretty much the same I get up in the morning and I start talking monkey chop of these little guys and make sure everybody up here's got their water and then you know I take care of McHale and Chloe and then I go out to pool and start fixing the food fill the big guys downstairs you you make food for all of them or well you have food the big ones it's I feed produce mm-hmm like the big guys I usually give sometimes I cut their stuff up for just because it's something else like you can scatter it or something different but I also give them a lot of stuff he's watching they're watching us and any chance at all that we can make them watching us that would be very special I saw them watching us you know you see them constantly watch me clean cages a lot of times [Applause] [Applause] because I use em anyway I ain't givin her I give her one of those nekkid smoothie each one and there was an empty water bottle back there that evidently poked a hole in the bottom probably with her canine tooth anyway I give her the smooth smoothy she unscrewed it took a drink soda on the shelf and then went and got the water bottle and poured it just a little bit at a time and drank it imported but she drank it out of the hole at the bottom you know everything's politically politically correct or supposedly just because a chimpanzee is raised in captivity or raises a human doesn't make them not do it you know a lot of times people think oh boy you're socially I mean you can see I mean these guys grew up with diapers on and there's none of bottles and the house and sleeping in bed they're still chimps yeah it doesn't hinder their ability that they know what they are yeah and I think a lot of people that don't understand they think well because they were raised like a human that you try to make them into a human child err and even though I look at them and I love them like my kids they're grown they grew up to be chimps that's what they are I don't know I think captivity is safer farm there's no wild anymore there's a very huge chimps left in the wild you know you know there's over the years there's times people and they ask me well so you know when these guys get over are you gonna turn them back into the wild they me they'd be slaughtered you know as another chimp didn't get them poachers would there's there's no safe place are tearing down the rainforests there's no safe place for chimps actually besides captivity and the other thing is I think especially people that follow animal rights they think space yeah I look at my guys and I think would they be because free isn't safe with these guys rather be here where they can watch TV or vehicles or plate and don't have to worry about their food and still get to interact with other chumps or would they whether be in the wild where somebody would kill them or there's no trees to climb you know our poachers are gonna get them are they gonna be attacked by another chimp doesn't make me a bad person yeah these guys are my family and I love these funds you know they love me you know I know they love me and I'm the mom there's times what you know people that don't understand because especially the male's if they see a stranger they're going to display you know and then they think oh whether mean you know they're usually doing with chimps to somebody else's in their area especially if it's a male they got to show another male that hey I'm the boss here at least they think they're the boss you know we can see that and they're smaller than correctly like I said just because they don't someone don't show it doesn't mean they're not smart because they are smart [Music] you