As Obamas dunk on Trump, their fave ballerina Misty Copeland talks merit & breaking barriers

Welcome to The Summit Series with Ari melbour we have a very special guest tonight the legendary and ground baking dancer and ballerina Misty Copeland principal dancer with the American Ballet Theater making history as the first black ballerina to achieve the title in 2015 and her success on the stage has led to all kinds of activity off stage around the world an activist for diversity and dance and working through her foundation as ambassador of the Boys and Girls Club she's the author of several books including the bestselling memoir life in motion and the wind at my back about a relationship with the ballet Trailblazer Raven Wilkinson Copeland is also featured in the documentary black Barbie on Netflix now here on the Summit Series is Misty cand thanks for being here thank you so much for having me absolutely uh you started ballet at around age 13 yes that sounds young to plenty of people but maybe isn't for ballet explain right I would say you know similarly to gymnastics or even any any sport um it's something that you start young you know you you really start to become a part of the culture and understand how to navigate through that space But with ballet in particular it's important to be able to uh shape the body as you're training it and get it so that the technique is really ingrained so that you then I don't know by the time you're a teenager you start to think about what it is to be an artist because this isn't just about Athletics it's also about Artistry and telling a story through movement so for me to start at 13 you know that's considered like ancient in B so was that coming from teachers or peers saying that's quote late the the the culture the community the ballet you know industry that's that's very late to start by the time you're 13 you're already starting to look at either professional schools that you want to attend or you're already starting to look at what companies you want to be a part of um so I started at 13 on a basketball court at my boys and girls club where I was discovered by a local teacher who was looking to bring more diverse students into her Studio on scholarship so I happened to be one of those students that she immediately said um was a prodigy I ended up living with her and her family for three and a half years uh and then I became a professional with only four years of training here in New York with American Ballet Theater did you immediately accept or internalize that they say you're a prodigy you're obviously good at it we'll get to how good but and you're like yep I'm a prodigy or was that an evolution um I don't think I've ever really embraced or accepted that I don't think I even understood the magnitude of what that meant at that age for me coming from the background that I come from I'm from a single parent home um my mother raised me and my my five siblings you know pretty much on our own we were often houseless for most of my upbringing um and so entering into this space where I felt safe I felt like I had a voice I felt seen and heard um that word prodigy meant nothing to me I just knew that I couldn't live my life without ballet in it from that point on once I was introduced to it so I think it served a very different purpose for me initially um then you know it wasn't just about becoming a professional it was something that I needed it was a a tool to become the person that I am now I I started to excel in school because I don't you know not every child not every person learns the same and that's why the Arts I think are so important it's interesting because that's partly art it's partly sport but the art is a type of fiction right fiction fantasy I mean some of these are Productions with entire characters of course practice maybe is a little different but that in that fiction you found you're saying a kind of discipline and Solace which then also played back into your real life yeah absolutely I mean you know there was a lot of just instability we were always moving I you know from one day to the next I wouldn't know where we would be staying or if there was food on the table and there was abuse in the house um and so this was literally this one place that was sacred to me to be able to um dive into these characters you know taking experiences that I had in my life but uh becoming Something Beautiful becoming um something powerful and and strong and um in control uh it it became a necessity for me so in your first competition I think you were about 15 uh we have a clip let's take a look [Music] really Happ uh how do you remember feeling then um it was such an incredible experience I mean I think that being on a stage is where I feel most alive and at home and again you know I keep using this word safe but there's such a safety in being on the stage and being in a studio for me and so in that moment I remember um just feeling like this this could be what my future is you know being on a stage uh being surrounded by other dancers I was competing against that were at a high level was the first time for me and the people who were the judges in the audience it was the first time I was seen by uh American Ballet Theater when they really started to look at me um and then I was invited to come and train with them uh we we checked this was how you were described in one of the first reviews in the New York Times uh one of the highlights they said of these 13 numbers in the dream sequence of Don keyote danced with impressive Authority and Technical skill by Misty copin whose expansiveness communicated the joy of confident young performing um with those layers then you're getting some sort of validation as you said within the actual ballet Community then you're getting to a point where you're being reviewed you're in that Spotlight um how did that then connect with validate or interact uh with also being this barrier breaker within this very white space um I've never been someone that's really looked at reviews or kind of dependent on them for anything really uh coming into the space you know I I come from an environment where I was really nurtured and that the teacher Cynthia Bradley who found me at that boys and girls club really understood what it meant to train a dancer of color and so I feel like I was very prot protected in that environment where she just wanted me to focus on ballet and and on the craft and you know a lot of things were being kept from me that were happening um in terms of you know my race and so once I came to New York City and joined ABT it was a little bit of a shock though I was the only one in most rooms I had been in I just you know the environment was set up in such a nurturing and loving way that it wasn't something I was even really aware of and you were a kid and I was a kid but you know even even being a kid you know this is why I've started programs that I've started is because often dancers of color in studios doesn't you know from ages 3 to 12 experience extreme racism and are you know told to to go into different genres of dance because they may be more successful or you know they might have that's where their body types will be more accepted but um all of it to say when I moved to New York City it was a big shock and a big adjustment um and you know these reviews I I often just never really took to heart it was really about me finding my a community that I was going to have support from you know similarly to what I experienced with Cynthia Bradley and that's really been at the backbone of My Success has been finding um other dancers who have experienced similar things and there's you know it's a small dance community and and really bonding with them being support system for them as well but then just having incredible women but es especially black women in my life life that have been there for me on those times where you know you just feel so alone or you know you're being told you know within the system internally at my company that you don't belong here you know whether it's through casting or verbally hearing it right so you're facing that uh discrimination uh being a barrier breaker because you're in a space where there aren't people that look like you that have done this and while all competitive Fields have this kind of intensity seems like ballet is more intense from what we can tell you'll you'll tell us um but you know I don't know if it's as bad as say the movie Black Swan where it's turned into a literal horror film but a lot of people see this and they think this this looks harsher because of it's for younger people it's so exacting as you said contorting changing the nature of your body and you've written about this uh reading from you you said ballet is a career that requires luck and money which you didn't have in addition to the impeccable training and emotional support and as you climb it can be lonely and terrifying to look around and see no one else who resembles you so how much harder was that being that it was ballet and is it exactly as bad as as the movie or almost as bad you know it's something that I wouldn't be a part of this field if I if I felt like I was living within you know the Black Swan film um you know I have so much hope for the future and I've I've gained so many amazing tools qualities by being a part of this art form it's really about sifting through and and um and finding ways to embrace the positive I think something that's often misrepresented is the fact that it's really about a you know you're a part of a team it's like being on a sports team you're being a part of a company um you you're you're spending more time with these people than your own family you're traveling the world you're working together so you did find camar there absolutely I mean there were there were a lot of difficult times but overall I think it's been you know a positive uh experience but I think that the the downside is really um you know this this structure that you know from the time it started it's you know wasn't made for dancers of color to exist within it's an European white art form that really hasn't evolved enough um and that's what I feel like part of my mission is well isn't that funny because there's this thing where really old stuff has extra Prestige and yet what right yeah but then we know that eventually if we don't blow up the Earth what the new stuff will become old we we know that intellectually but as you say when you talk about what is considered sometimes the high Arts the Renaissance of the dance and painting from that actual period in Italy and what you're drawing on right but then it's coming over to America and it's coming other places and it's being evolved and yet people are being told they should look like what the girls in France DGA whatever from then right it's sort of funny right so I invite you to speak on that at all as well as reading one more point on this from your Memoir where you said quote suddenly as you were going through this quote my blackness was a problem I was painting my skin a completely different color taking Ivory based Foundation used by one of the other girls and layering it on my face and arms to lighten my skin um all of that for your for your thoughts yeah you know I think that you you look at this art form as you said you know it's it's coming from Europe and and now it's become you know here in America it is a part of our culture as well and it's become an American art form you know um American Ballet Theater being one of those companies the ballet Roost to Monte Carlo being one of those companies to really help it evolve into a part of American culture and so with that it the the people who are part of it that has to evolve as well uh you know the audience members if you want to see this um be you know maintained pained and and stay alive and stay relevant these people that are coming and spending all of this money want to see themselves represented they want to see their stories told um and so a lot of these things need to change that being one of them I mean that's been an old tradition um within ballet is that if you don't have the the the right colored color skin to be a part of it then you would actually paint it to blend in with the other company members and that's yeah and with body type I mean these are kind of difficult conversations to even have but with body type without generalizing too much if something was built for this certain population that generally fits into whatever A Certain typology and now unlike Sports where at least you can say it's simpler right I mean if you're faster you're faster you score more points fine right there are complexities but I think it's simpler here you have people saying oh no this whatever 15y old 20y old isn't at the highest level if the way that their body reflects the art doesn't match something that might not physically be even in the ballpark for them but again that's just me describing it you can better educate us I mean is there a harder Evolution within a high art than in sport yes I mean it's it's subjective and and you know we have this I ideal of what a ballerina or you know ballet dancer should look like but to me again with it evolving and it Coming to America and you think about you know these choreographers George balenine and now Alexa ransky and the the type of choreography that we're doing um you know organically the body type the bodies change depending on the type of movement you're doing so it's become more athletic it's become more embracing of modern dance and contemporary dance you're not going to get the same you know thin stick figure type of bodies when you're not doing that type of movement so it's it's it's like you know just being logical about things that as it gets more athletic you're going to have more athletic bodies but I also think that it's so beautiful to embrace that the art form is going to be expressed differently through different experiences through different body types and that is so beautiful about art you know are those unique experiences that each individual has yeah and so these stories are really linked you're break breaking those barriers but also being really good right so it's both things and then you kind of became really big right um this is the New Yorker talking about you blowing up okay uh ballet fans never lack for Darlings but rarely does a dancer become an old-fashioned star recognized outside of the realm of people with nuanced opinions about alternative endings to Swan Lake that's what happened for Misty Copeland um and it's sort of got to be funny for you I mean this is a series where we talk to people who reach that level but um you became really big and I'm curious Beyond just the success within ballet it then went beyond balet right it meant something um and here we have some other people dancers young women and girls uh talking about your inspiration take a look it's very mindblowing like to see that she actually made it and it makes us feel like we can actually make it somewhere in the ballet world it's ballerina it's a ballerina that's Misty cop you practice it why do you think people are falling in love with ballet again and it's becoming a little bit more mainstream I think it definitely stems from Misty Copeland what she did with Under Armour because that was definitely a groundbreaking moment it changed everything she allowed me to find Hope again and finally see a future for myself kind of cool yeah it's it's um that's what it should be you should be able to see inspiration and be inspired and see yourself and you know so much of my mission and and goal and uh you know I think why I've gotten to this place I mean of course with an amazing team um but with this understanding that this should be an art form that's for everyone so you say Mission so you planned on that you thought that would happen no I didn't think that that would happen but I've always half a mission or a mission that evolved as you went my mission and goal has always been how can we bring ballet to the masses so when do you remember something like that I mean it's funny because your life now has gone through it but when do you remember seeing something like that and going oh wow this means more than than you thought it might to other people um I would say the first time I really understood the impact and that it's bigger than ballet um was my first time performing as the firebird the lead in the in the ball vinsky is a Firebird um this was before I was promoted to principal dancer I was still a soloist at the time and it was at the Metropolitan Opera House and it was a soldout performance and to see you know black and brown young people you know wrapped around the fountain and down the block and that it was the first time for a lot of them to even step into that space because they felt like they could they felt like they could see themselves and to meet um you know people from you know past Generations that that say had I had someone like you to look to who knows what would have become you know of me and even not just this trajectory of going into the Performing Arts or valet but to have that confidence was to be accepted in that space and then to use those tools to go on to do other things but I think that was really the first time that I understood the impact of what it was just to be a brown body on the stage and and to have I mean it doesn't really matter if those people aren't in the space and seeing you but to have them in the space um that was a big change for me and really understanding the power of representation yeah well I love that you tell that story you're saying people were like lined up to get in and and it's a more diverse group and it's a younger group perhaps um watching right because valet is sometimes the older audience maybe and that's a good thing for the art right isn't it crazy to have people fight you because of course especially with high art sometimes the value is defined by exclusivity um but the ultimate thing right is for it to be embraced and relevant popular not a dying thing 100% And I think that even you know when it was created it was created for the people it may not have been for American people but it was created for communities and to tell their stories and to use this art form um you know to to embrace you know community and culture and and I feel like we need to kind of keep that ethos yeah and and to me the the the foundation of this technique of ballet is so brilliant and so beautiful and that's what I've held on to not all of this extra stuff that's come on you know since it was created um with opinions and you know kind of creating these boundaries and guidelines as to how you have to look to be a part of it but I'm holding on to that beautiful joy and um that ballet is at its core it's a beautiful art form that um you know transcends and you don't need words to tell these really incredible and some times intricate stories uh then you have a fan in the in the white house a couple years back um you know what hoves said black opulence Excellence tuxes next to the president and you're sitting with Obama and that's got to be a bit of an out-of- body experience we can tell you here in The News Room uh it's hard to get any Obama interview five minutes whatever um you've done that right um let's take a look at you and uh Obama 2017 what I always try to transmit to my kids is that issues of race discrimination all those things are real and you have to understand them and you have to be knowledgeable about them I feel like my mom pretty much covered everything with me being biracial she made it very clear to me that yes you are Italian and you are German and you are black but you are going to be viewed by the world and by society as a black woman and you should be prepared for that it is wonderful that the potential dancer can see Misty and say I can do that what was it like being with uh President Obama what did that mean to you yeah it it's incredible to be able to be in a space where you can see yourself through the president you you feel connected and that he's human and to me that is so important and so valuable um for our people and uh so it's incredible just to be able to sit down and have a conversation with um you know someone who's biracial a black man in America who's raising young black girls and to have this conversation about real experiences and you know where do we go from here what do we what do we do about these issues of body image especially with young girls of color and so it was incredible was he exactly like you thought he'd be or different in any way hanging cooler cooler cuz he wasn't as formal like when you're but like yeah just really chill and cool and you know bonding over the Warriors and Stephen Curry and it's pretty cool yeah um you've also had of course mentorship uh both within dance but then as we're talking about all this other stuff Prince was reaching out to you um and you've had these collabs with different artists we have a little bit of you and Prince Let's Take a look ladies and gentlemen Misty copelan [Applause] [Music] and that obviously is special we want to hear about that and also with other top musicians which really Builds on what you were saying earlier that this is for the people and you doing ballet at the highest level within that art form is one thing right that's a top thing but you doing it in these other venues and stadiums simoc cast is probably reaching more people seeing your ballet there than the original live performance uh so let's take a look at some of your other [Music] [Applause] [Music] collaborations can I go where you go oh can we always be this [Music] [Applause] close that goes hard yeah that's pretty hard Drake Taylor mhm what is it mean to put the art in front of a different wider audience and can you share anything that came out of all of that I'm sure different people saw you like I said might not have seen you elsewhere yeah again that's really been my goal you know that um that this is this is a bigger opportunity you know and and of course you know I've been asked if it's accepted by you know the ballet community and I don't care you don't care I don't did you get any push back people say hey Drake video that's notely what did you hear on that front say I mean just that you know there are certain stages we should be on and and um and that you know it can kind of you know bring down the you know the level of Excellence or whatever it is and and in my mind you know Prince was really the first artist that I that I worked with and you think he set that template that other artists noticed yeah absolutely I mean there have been collaborations in the past I think it's different when there's a black woman doing these collaborations and and um and what that means you know I think about allesandra Ferry and you know collaborating with sting you know and and that was seen as this beautiful high art um but you know with Prince to me the first thing I thought when he came to me was how many people are going to be able to see B who might not have seen it and it was an incredible experience and that's what I'm thinking about whenever I'm you know doing these collaborations and when they say I mean it echoes what we talked about earlier but someone's telling you oh it diminishes it MH why why would that diminish ballet I think that they see a stage in a certain way and and that's within the bounds of these institutions and I view the world as a stage you know whether you know through my production company life and motion Productions and we uh you know last year um had a film flower that premiered at Tribeca Film Festival but you know using the community of Oakland California as my stage um that's reaching the people and bringing community in and showing them the power of dance and movement and art and collaborating with different people from different cultures that's how I see the stage it can look like so many things and the point of it again is to embrace people and to and to bring them in and how did the Taylor thing come about she reached out and um what does that mean when Taylor Swift reaches out what does that Evol um I heard people reached out to my manager and they had conversations and said it would Misty be interested in in performing with me and I was like absolutely and it was such an incredible experience to work with an artist who's so humble and so grounded and um so committed to the work she's doing you know so much time was spent together re in rehearsals and something that really sticks out for me in that experience was you know in the moment during the live performance that she stopped and acknowledged me and my partner Craig Hall um you know that we weren't just you know often dancers are seen as backup dancers we're just kind of there as as you know decoration but not seen as collaborators and to have her really stop and give us that you know that acknowledgement and Prince has done the same thing and how do you match what you're doing to that different type of music it's so easy the ballet technique is literally built it's a language it's built to be able to express yourself and I don't think that the music really matters you know what what it is um and so for me it's it's literally just it's just about connecting and again using the technique of ballet as a tool to express to remote uh Barbie's been back in the news I don't know if you heard yes lot of Barby talk uh you got one yes and then we can take a look um what did that mean for people to have not only this dance ballet Barbie but a literally Misty Barbie um you know it was incredible to be able to be reached out to and not just say oh you know we want to put your name on this box but to be a collaborator in the process of building um this Barbie and you know again body image is so important to me and and embracing um you know community and so it was important that did you guys engage on the dimensions because that's one of the big feminist debates around these Barbies I wanted her to to look like me I mean we kept I kept pushing back you know make her breasts bigger it doesn't really represent me make her calves bigger her quads I wanted her to look like an athlete and so you know it was it was very collaborative but to be you know a black woman and to have a Barbie doll and kind of add to that um iconic and important collection just meant so much to me I mean you know she's always been kind of sold to us as um you know someone who's representing women and you know imagination and so in order to do that you have to be inclusive of of all women what' you think of the movie I loved it yeah I loved it I mean one of my favorite things was seeing men dance which often you know is is frowned upon or not celebrate especially for young boys to be able to see Men Moving on screen is so powerful H um before I let you get out of here we often do a lightning round which is quicker like in a word or a sentence if you can okay favorite ballet role um Juliet and Romeo and Juliet Any Dream role you never got to play oh my gosh probably onen in the B onen yes um in a word or a sentence Taylor Swift beautiful President Obama the man Prince ah genius uh these are some from the ballet World Raven Wilkinson iconic Trailblazer and friend Paloma Herrera my idol uh Arthur Mitchell uh groundbreaking innovator that brought opportunity to the black community and this is a just the final few complete the sentence being a Virgo means being perfect for ballet um when they start saying you're great that's when you've got to keep your head down and keep working the best advice I've gotten is don't let other people's words Define you failure means another opportunity to try again success means there's even more work to be done and finally uh reaching the summit means this is what we're meant to be doing yes whatever that is for you for the person right yeah uh Missy Copeland thanks for being here thank you so much for having me