The other side of the Kirk Herbstreit/Raiola convo | We LAWYER UP to talk NCAA cases | Dear Andy

Intro - Kirk Herbstreit and Dylan Raiola Conversation [Music] welcome to Andy Staples on three it is a dear Andy Show so we got your questions we'll actually start with some of your questions because I got peppered with some of these on Wednesday as the afternoon wore on and it was one of those deals where I thought oh boy this is this is gain and steam I need to answer these questions on the show but I'm going to have to talk to somebody first I got several questions I we could put up all the questions but I I got it multiple times what is the deal with this Kirk herb Street Dylan riola thing and so let's let's start with that so we all know who Kirk herb street is ESPN college game day Dylan Rola is the quarterback who just signed with Nebraska the the very highly rated quarterback who just signed with Nebraska flipped from Georgia before that flipped from Ohio State to Georgia so here's what happened let's start with some background the background is that Adam gourney who who is a reporter at rivals.com is interviewing Dominic Rola who is Dylan's father Dominic riola all-time great offensive lineman at Nebraska played for a long time in the NFL uh it's it gets a little confus Dominic is Dylan's dad Donovan is Dominic's brother who also happens to be the Nebraska offensive L coach right now but so Dominic riola who is the father of Dylan is talking to Adam gourney and they're talking about the decision-making process and and what led Dylan to to eventually sign with Nebraska and Dominic brings up K herb Street and this is what what he said in the video he said when he when he saw the smoke about Dylan entertaining Nebraska he was like call me Dominic re said of herb Street dude is this true he got to do it he got to do it this is Dom rela quoting Kirk herb Street his affinity and this is now Dom re talking again his affinity for Nebraska for a guy like that to tell me and get behind me look I knew he needed to do it but I wasn't going to sit here and say you need to go change that place or be a part of the change of that place so that is what Dom Rola said and this enraged a lot of Georgia fans who were like how could Kirk herb Street tell Dylan riola where to go to school how could he say to flip away from our school that's not what happened when I saw this interview my thought was there's probably another side to this there's probably some context missing from this so I called KB Street and I talked to him on Wednesday night and he didn't want to come on the show because he doesn't really want to make this any bigger than it already is he got you know he got talked about on fine bomb on Wednesday and fine bomb's like this is this is kind of a bad look but Kirk had not really had a chance to to give his side of the story so I said Kirk you know what is your side of the story on this and and we talked about it and he explained that he has a a relationship with Dominic riola they know each other they've talked you know plenty of times before and that they were having a conversation about Dylan's recruitment now Kirk is quick to point out that he is not someone who follows a lot of the day-to-day of recruiting so the part I'm not so sure is is quite accurate from Dom's retelling of the story is the you know Kirk finds out that that Dylan is considering the flip and and like call you know ask Dom to call right out of the blue to say go to nebr that's not how it happened according to Kirk basically they are talking kind of father to Father you know Kirk's had a few Sons play college football as well he's got another son who's being looked at right now by some schools and they're talking about the the whole process and basically according to Kirk Dom is asking hey you know how much should I talk about the possibility of if you go to Nebraska you could be a program changer you could be a Difference Maker you could you could be the per you know a legend if if you wind up helping bring this program back to where it wants to be and Kirk who was complimentary of of Matt rule the Nebraska coach and Kirby Smart in in this whole situation says well yeah that that would be cool like it would be cool if he could do that and that's pretty much where it was which is not the same thing as go to Nebraska and here's the thing car kreet understands his job he understands his platform he's not going to be dumb enough to be telling people go to this school don't go to this school it it that would get out and trust me it would get back to the coaches and he's got to deal with all of them so I just don't I think people are overreacting to this a little bit but this is this is what happens and you know it's interesting because you you're in these jobs and you think oh well I want to be as big as it gets I'm not sure I'd want to be as big as Kirk Herpst Street in terms of how much every word I say gets parsed you you guys watch me so you know how many words come out of my mouth on a daily basis and I don't I don't think I could handle having every single word out of my mouth get parsed like this like you saw the Florida state thing with Kirk herb Street where they're convinced that he's part of this Grand massive conspiracy when he gave an opinion which is his job that he thought Alabama was a better candidate for the playoff than Florida State like that is his job to give that opinion but every everybody thinks that that he's moving markets with everything he says and the thing about it is it's kind of true when Kirk says something that is of Interest it gets aggregated by everybody including us at on three and it takes on a life of its own and this is one now he didn't say this is Dominic Rola said it but it took on a life of its own but if you're a Georgia fan and you're mad at Kirk curve streak because you think that he told Dylan Rola or told Dylan rola's dad that Dylan should go to Nebraska that's not how it happened he said basically that Dominic riola should share that that piece of his opinion of Dominic R's opinion with his son which I think it's an absolutely legitimate thing yes Dominic Rola should talk about what it would mean if Dylan goes goes to Nebraska and what it would mean if Dylan goes to Georgia and how different those situations are because they are different like that's not breaking news like the next quarterback who leads Georgia to a national title will be the first one since Stetson Bennett did it twice two you know three years ago and two years ago so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out like the quarter back who leads Nebraska back to National prominence is going to be a legend because that's the situation Nebraska's in that doesn't have anything to do with a value judgment of Nebraska Over Georgia those are just the particular situations that Nebraska is in and Georgia is in and different players want different things you know some players want to be the guy who brought a team back some players want to play with the very best competition every day at practice like those are the players who are picking Georgia right now they want to compete every day with the best of the best because Georgia has the most Talent right now Nebraska if you go there you are probably dreaming of being part of the group that brings Nebraska back to being a national name program so that's the thing you've got to consider this is a very nuanced conversation that two dads are having that gets boiled down to one sound bite from an interview that's not exactly how it all happens so Georgia fans you're killing Kirk herb Street I think you you might be going a little too hard on it just relax he didn't he didn't tell Dylan RI to pick Nebraska instead of Georgia he did tell Dylan RI his dad to have that have that conversation from ug 1195 so what did Kurt make the call in the first place remember he didn't say your son stick with ug because he knows the guy and they're talking like you're allowed to talk to people if you're in this business I am allowed to call people and give my opinions to them but I will tell you there are a lot of situations where I know I cannot give a certain opinion or a definitive opinion and Kirk herb street is smart enough to know that as well this is not necessarily the POS he didn't say Dillan should go to Nebraska or flip from Georgia he just said the Dad should talk to him I I mean I don't the dad the dad providing all the information the dad who's in Nebraska grad providing all the information it's not that controversial it really isn't if you guys want to be mad about it you you can be mad about it but I'm telling you right now it's not one of those things but yeah there are conversations like I have conversations sometimes here's here's here's an example this happens not super frequently but it's happened a few times talking to a young coach and their their Stars Rising this be like an assistant coach somewhere and so suddenly they're trying to decide if they want to hire an agent or who they want to hire as an agent and they'll they'll say okay do you know all these guys yeah I know all these guys who should I hire I will never answer that question not even once because if he gets back to those guys and I said hire this guy and not this guy are they ever going to talk to me again of course not so I I I'll just be up front I'm like I am not telling you that that is a decision you must make on your own but these are these are all people I like these are all people I have relationships with so you you do your homework and make the best decision for you and that's the kind of stuff you have to say when you're in situations like that Chris call in the chat Pat McAfee is a big bigger enemy to Georgia fans than her how how what did Pat McAfee ever do to Georgia seemed like they liked him quite a bit when he was on campus seemed like that he was barking with them and they were doing that where the train coming down the tracks thing like everybody seemed pretty happy what what what Pat ma if he do to Georgia what can he do to Georgia he's a former punter who talks on television everybody's got their conspiracy theories this is we you guys watch me listen to me enough so you know I love it when you say you hate that that I hate your school and I'm just going to say yes of course you're right I hate your school I hate all of your schools every single one of them it's funny the Florida people probably say that more than anybody else I'm like I I got a degree there I met my wife there like H I don't know Chris says Pat told Georgia fans to go to hell well you tell well I mean Georgia Tech people tell you that all the time and Matt Matt also says Pat told Georgia fans to go to hell did you deserve it did you say something nasty to him because you guys have a habit of doing that everybody's so sensitive these days speaking of Kirk herb Street he is Nick Saban Joining College Gameday going to have a new castmate on ESPN's college game day in the least surprising news ever Nick Sabin fresh off his retirement is joining the college game day cast we knew this was coming and I'm very very excited because in the times that Nick sabbin has done television where he has explained what is going on on the field it has been spectacular absolutely spectacular and I I always loved when he did his radio show because that was when he would get very in-depth on schematic type stuff that he wouldn't normally do in press conferences and it felt like when he would go on TV it was an even more enhanced version of that so I cannot wait to hear him break stuff down on College G that is that's must CV for me just because I one thing about Nick Sabin and this is I think a reason why he was as good as he was as a coach is he's great at taking what is a fairly complex concept or something that you've got to be kind of it really deep in the weeds to understand and he makes it understandable to a very large group of people very quickly and it's what great teachers do in general they can they can take something and boil it down to its Essence and tell you in a few sentences and make you understand whereas somebody like me is going to just keep talking and maybe you're never going to get it so I just I can't wait I think it's going to be so much fun to get Nick Sabin takes on teams schemes coaching staffs I I can't wait because I I don't think he's going to hold back I don't think he's going to worry about because he's not trying to get back in the game you know sometimes you get ex- coaches who are trying to get back in and they just they they bite their tongue a little bit I don't think Nick sain's gonna do that I I think he's G to be fascinating to watch on Game Day speaking of fascinating we have a fascinating conversation for you but first we going to talk about FanDuel the Super Bowl's on Sunday guys FanDuel wants want me to give you my picks CU I know you're dying to hear my picks in the Super Bowl but I got to be honest my picks are kind of awesome at least a couple of them but go to fanduel.com Staples and sign up you place a $5 bet if you win that bet you get $200 in bonus bets fanduel.com Staples to sign up for that so they have tons of specials for the Super Bowl tons of different props there's one I've been telling you about over and over in fact the the line on it has gone down since we started talking I don't think it's because I started talking about I think it's just people are looking into the the history of the of the players involved and thinking all right this might happen so I will give you my picks first of all right out of the gate the game itself Chiefs plus two and a half I do think the 49ers probably on balance have a better collection of talent like Trent Williams is the best offensive tackle in the game uh Fred Warner is the best linebacker in the game uh Nick Bosa well I don't know is he the best pass rush he's he probably probably is the best pass rush in the game Christian mcaffrey probably the best back in the game Peko is pretty damn good too though but that said you're going to give me points and Patrick Mahomes I I do think I'm going to take the points in Patrick Mahomes so I'll take Chiefs plus two and a half the other one any kicker to kick 60 plus yard field goal this started out at plus 4,000 this is down to plus 3500 and as I keep pointing out Harrison buter the Chiefs kicker has hit a 62 y off of grass before I think in a dome it is grass it's a weird one at at Allegiance Stadium because like I covered a Pack 12 championship game there it was Turf and then the Raiders were playing a couple days later and it was grass so that they have a grass field it's on the tray like the one in Phoenix so it it goes out and gets sunlight and then they push it back in for the for the NFL game so it's on a grass field which is not as reliable of a kicking surface but it's an indoor grass field so I think Harrison buter if he gets put in that situation and look this is a game where points might be at a premium because both these defenses are really good so I'm I'm going to say there's a chance of that one the other one is one this is just to kind of enhance your enjoyment of the game I'm not saying put your life savings on this I'm saying maybe sprinkle 10 bucks on this like any offensive lineman to score a touchdown plus 6500 so you put 10 bucks on this thing and if an offensive lineman scores a touchdown you get to watch a fat guy TD for one which we we all want to see and you win 650 bucks is there a better night than that fat guy TDE and 650 bucks for the 10 you put down come on that's the way you handle it right there so those are my picks fanduel.com Staples make a $5 bet heck you make $5 bet if you win $200 in bonus bets for you I can't wait cannot wait but I can't wait for you to see this too because Michael mccan longtime friend this is a guy who who is one of my favorite people to read because he helps us understand something that if you did not go to law school you might not understand I I certainly didn't and so now especially with all of these cases involving the NCAA involving athletes trying to be declared employees it takes a legal mind to explain some of this stuff so Michael mccan from sportico my former cooworker at Sports Illustrated joined me to talk about about Tennessee and Virginia versus the NCAA the Dartmouth National Labor Relations Board case and all of these other cases going on right now here's Michael we are honored to be joined by Michael McMann Gives us a Legal Analysis of the NCAA someone who's going to make us all a lot smarter you have heard my amateur stupid legal analysis now we get a man who is the legal expert first foro you can read him there and please do he is a professor of law at the University of New Hampshire Law School he is a visiting professor at Harvard University which I hear is the Harvard of Cambridge Massachusetts Michael mccan how we doing doing great Andy it's great to see you again you know remember our days together uh working on a bunch of stories so it's nice to reconnect with you so for those who don't know Michael and I work together at Sports Illustrated and I would just pepper him with questions anytime there was a legal issue involving college sports and he was getting very tired because he was dealing with the NFL stuff and and Major League Baseball legal stuff and and see I'm just sending in all this Byzantine stuff about the oanon versus the NCAA trial so you not writing a book about that though right I did yeah and uh I got to work with that on the book but but the trial the you me Stuart I mean a bunch of us were were involved with that coverage and uh those were some good days oh yeah yeah that was that was fun in the courthouse watching Mark Emer get grilled and uh but now it's your life is just being consumed by all this college stuff I mean I don't think there's room for any of the pro sports right now I we got to ask you about all the things that are going on so I'll start I guess I'll just go chronologically basically we'll start with the most recent thing and that is the judge in the eastern district of Tennessee in Federal Court denies a temporary restraining order that the Tennessee and Virginia AGS had sought against the NCAA but this is a case involving the ncaa's nil rules but in the in the the order denying this temporary restraining or the judge basically goes but the Inc is gonna lose the case is that normal where a judge just says here's how I'm probably gonna rule sometimes judges are more subtle about that this one was pretty blunt and and maybe I think the Judge knows that this is a case that the public is following closely and that he wanted to write it in a way that that made it un uous how he feels and he's also telling the NCAA look you win this battle but you're going to lose the war so figure something else out and the sort of bluntness in which he wrote that that is not super rare but uncommon and he left no doubt that he thinks NCAA restrictions on nil in the context of using nil to recruit is illegal under antitrust law he didn't buy any of the ncaa's arguments the only thing he bought was that money damages can later make up any damage uh so there's no reparable harm but the core of the case he he clearly sided with Tennessee well it's interesting because we've seen a lot of these cases and this is not necessarily a case where that they have to hold a jury you know hold a trial hold a bench trial or anything like that so it's not like the oanon case where that took years and years there's a hearing next week how how long could it be before this judge says okay as I said before I'm going to declare these illegal now they're illegal well I think he'll probably signal how he feels while on the bench so he'll probably give some sort of indication but more more likely in terms of the actual order it will come in a written order that could be written it's up to him but it could be written some days or weeks after the hearing but I think it's going to be tough for him to walk back what he wrote in that order to to sort of now suddenly say oh but now I see what the ncaa's argu he really just repudiated the ncaa's arguments didn't didn't to me leave much room for the NCAA to kind of come back in this game if you will well this is not a case where the NCAA can come up with some novel defense because they've been defending these things over and over and over again they would have if they had that that weapon in their holster they probably would have pulled it already right yeah this is I think the NCAA look look they've had a tough patch right I mean they they they have not had a winner in a while and uh other than the the bully Brothers case in Illinois where they actually did get a win involving the twin brothers who played in overtime Elite but that's the anomaly the other cases of all have all been losers for them and you know the Andy the big thing if I were the NCA I'd be worried about it's not as if it's sort of liberal judges are against you conservative judges are with you or vice versa they're all against you yeah this is like I don't know who the audience is anymore you so many things in law you can kind of You can predict oh that's a conservative judge that's a liberal judge right not anymore this stuff this is just like they're all ganging up yeah and and we we don't get too political on this show but in this case it it is Germaine to the subject and that was what I found interesting the Austin decision in the Supreme Court and you had Neil Gorsuch maybe the second most conservative Justice writing the majority opinion and then Brett Kavanaugh probably the most conservative Justice writing the just blowtorch concurring opinion and you know I had spent all this time talking to athletic directors and and people you know in the business they thought the conservative folks were going to be the ones on their side and I always asked them I'm like you do realize you're you're trying to keep markets closed like they don't like that right yeah I mean I think they thought what is it conservative mean in this context I think the NCAA thought conservative means keep things the way they are right just kind of romanticize college sports that kind of describe it as from 1945 or or whatever you know some sort of the old days of the Riata and you know the sort of romanticizing of college that the Jud the justices at least in this context are really libert Ian like you just said they they find these rules so constraining Justice Alo I remember in the oral argument where he said it looks like he was paraphrasing someone else but looks like you you take the athlete you use them up they get hurt then you cast them away and I was like once he said that and then Justice Thomas saying why don't why don't you cap Co college coaches contracts now they there was actually be illegal that would be illegal but you know you can see where his mind is at and the the one Justice who was actually sympathetic I actually thought would have voted for the NCAA I didn't expect 90 was Justice Brier who you know fairly Progressive uh and he was actually uh he was the one saying I'm worried about the court getting in here to change rules if that if if you got one vote at most that's really tough yeah so and but now since that that case and that's I think it's interesting I went back and read the the Gorsuch opinion the other day because it felt like for years the naaa was hanging on to a line from the television case back in 1984 which they also lost it was you know University of Oklahoma and Georgia sued them to get the TV rights back from the NCAA but there was a line in there that said that we we want to protect amateur sports and then Gorsuch just line by line took that out and said this doesn't apply you can't use this as a shield anymore yeah he he lit well it's exactly what just said he just said that's irrelevant here that case was about TV contracts it has no bearing on College athletes and the NCAA would repeatedly use that language and as you said in a case that they lost ironically it was their best case and here the court said really just dismissed it quickly to say that's irrelevant this isn't about TV contracts between schools conferences in the NCAA and TV networks this is about compensation for college athletes in the Austin case in the form of reimbursement for education related expenses so for for the court to just so quickly and swiftly dismiss it that had to be jarring for the NCAA I mean this is this is kind of a the last decade has been so rough for their for their legal team and I don't know where the window is for them I think I think to to Charlie Baker's credit he's at least proposed something that tries to resolve tries to separate SCH certain schools from others that's I think that's smart I don't know if it's going to have any traction as we as the NCW likes to say it's a membership organization we'll see what kind of suasion he has so let's head to New Hampshire a place you know very well uh where the National Labor Relations Bo board Regional director I believe in in in Boston uh declared Dartmouth basketball players employees of Dartmouth University which we we have a couple of these going on there's a USC one going on out in California uh involving the Pack 12 and the NCAA but I I'm fascinated by this one Michael because like the IVs don't give athletic scholarships so how are these guys considered employees so that that it's it's a great question I know a lot of people have had it the the the regional director Laura Sach said they're employees for several reasons because there's an exchange and the exchange is basically by going to play basketball at Dartmouth in exchange you get to go to Dartmouth you you're put into a preferential admissions pool well this is the Aunt Becky this is we we saw Aunt Becky serve hard time for this the preferential the preferential admission part of it is is the value and listen my up in my ad in my upstairs I have a an acceptance letter to Princeton that would not exist if they didn't want me to play football there so like getting into this school is the is the compensation almost I mean it's a big it's a huge part of it right not only that you mention there's no athletic scholarships that could actually work in favor of them let's say there there's a Dartmouth basketball player who decides to quit after the first semester that player stays at Dartmouth they don't lose their aid because it's need-based financial aid so they if they're getting a full ride for need reasons they continue to have their full ride and they graduate from Dartmouth right it's an elite they only take six% of applicants so and also the players noted that they also get various things they get access to facilities Health Training that they wouldn't otherwise get they get sneakers they get apparel they get tickets there was a long line of a list of things that the players noted so the the there is compensation in that form even if it's not an athletic scholarship Le that's what that's what the regional director found and so you've got the USC case which I thought was interesting I was watching the coverage of that of that hearing and it was bring in USC officials and say okay what are the rules governing the basketball players at USC and they they would pretend that there were no rules they're just guidelines but how much of the control aspect of it is is used because you you had a great paper and if you guys really want to get into the weeds in the University of Illinois uh law review there's a great paper on how all of this came to be but how much of the the control by The Entity is part of the test for is this an employee or not yeah and thank you for referencing the paper it was great to work with Mark Edelman and John Holden on it they were the co-authors the controls a huge part of it right because compare a college student and we can all relate to this when when we were in college we had Choice with what courses we're going to take what we do with our time an like an employer a coach has tremendous control over an athlete's time and what courses they can take even What majors they can pursue depending upon the coursework so also traveling with the team I mean that's a big big part of it that in the middle of the semester when your classmates are taking midterms or turning in assignments you got to travel across country for a game and Miss class and and it really looks like Athletics are prioritized over academics and I think we know that happens and that that's something that judges find very meaningful so a lot of of that paper and a lot of of obviously all of this is is kind of leading toward if they're declared employees would they form a union could they get a collective bargaining agreement like the the pro sports have with their their ownership groups and I'm curious what are kind of the the this the hurdles between this where they are now and actually having a CBA in college sports yeah so there are some hurdles we we don't know what the nlrb board is going to do with this we know that Northwestern the football players initially won at the regional director level but the board voted 0 there's a five member Board of DC that voted 5 against them and they were worried about disrupting labor relations in college sports because the nlr the federal law issue only governs private employers so the question is what about public universities and you know they're governed by state laws and state laws are like all over the board on on this issue and that that that's a hurdle just the complexity of it another hurdle will be this will wind up in court this will wind up before a US court of appeals and maybe the Supreme Court and that will take years to play out so this is not imminent and another hurdle will be you mentioned a union who's in the union how many unions are there are they employees of just the school or also are are the conferences in the NCAA itself are they join employers will there be cbas with all of them and you know this is something it was just you might ask the question this is something we t about in sports my Sports LA class yesterday you know if you're the football team do you want other athletes at your school in your union absolutely not absolutely not I want to keep the value as high as possible and and how are players gonna be paid does everyone get paid the same that doesn't you know the quarterback Caleb Williams shouldn't he get paid for so there are these distribution questions and what is the composition of the bargaining unit these are her now they're not insurmountable but I don't think we know the answers and I suspect there's disagreement when we kind get a when we take a more granular look at this I think we'll start to see some uh daylight that we don't yet see now yeah and that's that's the thing and there there's so many questions to be answered but it does feel like there's some clarity coming in terms of they've got to change the system but just for for those of us who are are not lawyers what is the advantage of a CBA versus a situation where you have a group unilaterally imposing rules yeah and I know coach R patino suggested I it was a tweet but that that a conference put in a salary cap the the the problem with that is that it will be subject to antitrust law and if it's subject to antitrust law a salary cap is price fixing so it would be vulnerable to an antitrust challenge in contrast if there's a collective bargaining agreement anything they come up with that relates to hours wages and other working conditions would be exempt from antitrust screwy there's something called the non-statutory labor exemption very basically it represents a group of Supreme Court cases that say in so many words look we want to incentivize management to bargain rules with unions and as a result when they do that we take antitrust law and the risk of treble damages and all of the scary features of antitrust law off the board so that's the advantage you know the if all college athletes were employees in in Union College sports would be saved in the sense that they could just negotiate rules with their schools conferences and the NCAA of course that's the world the NCAA doesn't want but yet it's the one that might actually cure its headaches yeah it's it's crazy I I wrote it in si during the Northwestern case I was like there there will be a time when you beg them to unionize and I I there're still not begging them but I I do feel like it's it might be their only shot because yeah like you said if you have a collected Bing agreement and someone were to try to sue the Court's just going to say well you guys agreed to this yep so so go back to the table go to arbitration like no you you've agreed to this it's the greatest defense right the other side agreed to this contractually so you can't now argue over and look and I know me so what we just described makes sense for like these top football programs and some top basketball programs for a lot of schools it's scary right because they're they're not making money or or they're you know if you look at their at least their accounting they're going to suggest we can't we can't have everyone be an employee we're not going to be able to afford it we're our Revenue model is different so for those schools you know they have to in a way it would be good for the top athletes to be employees at the at the top schools then you can distinguish them right you can say okay yeah that kid is clearly an employee but at our school the the the you know the swimmer the field hockey player the uh even the baseball player that they're not really an employee in that context but you know it's tough to get there and in the NCAA by fighting and fighting and fighting you know this is the problem playing defense all the time right we know prevent defense doesn't work and that's what the NCAA has been playing and it collapses eventually as we know from Sports and probably too late to hire a new offensive coordinator to to juice the system so it you know and they're also out of money I think at this point so Michael thank you so much this has been very educational and I truly appreciate it and uh hopefully you can get to You Know cover in the other sports eventually but uh but thank you for for keeping us educated here well Andy thanks for having me it's great to see you and uh let's do something again soon yes sir that is Michael mccan he is awesome you know who's also awesome Johnny broom the Auburn big man who is currently playing as Alabama right now uh Auburn trying to even that season series up because because Alabama beat them in Tuscaloosa but we're we're talking a little college hoops every once on the show and Johnny broom if you have not watched him play yet this season go watch enjoy because this will be the only one we get to see him in college basketball and he's really good but now it is time for dear Andy I'll throw it in from the chat but Dear Andy Intro we're not going to answer it right now because it's coming 1982 Boomer Sooner says Andy I'm making one main Oklahoma Sooner road trip to Old Miss I need restaurant recommendations uh do not worry do not worry you you are not alone we talked with George Stoya III and Eddie rosovich from sooner scoop yesterday and several sooner fans mentioned that they were planning to go to Oxford and uh want some restaurant recommendations so we will get to those but first a few little bit bigger picture questions and we'll start with one from Streaming Services and Conference-TV Deals Ethan is this the move and this is a he's referring to the news that came out on Tuesday that there's going to be a streaming service that is a joint venture between ESPN Fox and Warner Brothers Discovery so he says is this the move that pushes quote unquote conference realignment into quote unquote super league consolidation doesn't this kind of make the SEC ESPN and the Big 10 Fox NBC CBS relationships essentially nothing not nothing but I will say you caught me slipping Ethan my Spidey you know cynical conspiracy theory senses should have gone off a little harder on Tuesday and they yours did because it is fascinating that that news comes out three days after the SEC and Big 10 Commissioners say they're going to get together to form an Advisory Group which we all know is going to essentially take over and reshape college sports so yeah this does really add some spice to it because ESPN and fox are now in business together because one of the biggest things that kind of differentiated especially with the SEC and the Big 10 being the power two essentially right now is that the SEC is only on ESPN or Disney properties it'll be on ABC as well and the Big 10 is split across Fox NBC and CBS now Fox is the biggest partner and has a huge stake in the Big 10 because fox has a stake in the Big 10 Network and essentially is licensing these games to to these other networks so this adds a wrinkle to it it it really does because they're selling this product where it's going to get you all of the SEC and it's going to get you the biggest big 10 games it's going to get you the college football playoff assuming that the plan is still to sell the rest of the the the next version of the playoff to ESPN that is the plan right now again that doesn't necessarily happen because they're still talking about what it's going to be 2026 and Beyond and part of that also has to do with the SEC and the Big 10 teaming up to form their Advisory Group so that does really add a layer to this where before you didn't see an easy path for the SEC and the Big 10 to work together in terms of a super league type situation like how would that actually work would would somebody need to leave I've said multiple times that if a super league would actually form the most logical way to do it is teams leave their current conferences and coales as the super league but if the Big 10 and the SEC are on the same streaming service where the the two biggest investors in them which that's what Disney and fox are if they are together and all making money from the same pot well by all means there is a way to do that there is now a path for those guys to really work together and so I don't want to get super conspiratorial on you but that does strike me as very interesting that this I mean when you think about this product and again I said I said last night I need to see the price point because I I've got YouTube TV right now it gives me all the sports that isn't on exclusive to Amazon or peacock or whatever but I already have peacock and Paramount plus so I don't really need NBC or CBS sports for anything I've already got those things covered and if I got rid of YouTube TV and had something that gave me all the other sports channels I want if I could save significant money I'm going to do that so if the majority of sports fans do this then yeah I think it's definitely a path because they're kind of in League with each other and in business with each other but I don't know that the majority of sports fans will do this because here's the thing we're not all alone in our houses now in my particular case neither my wife nor my kids watch anything else that's on cable like they don't care about HTV they don't care about lifetime they don't care about Bravo nobody in my house cares about any of those channels nobody watches the cable news channels in other houses it's not like that you may have somebody who's a CNN fan or a Fox News fan or an MSNBC fan you may have somebody who loves Bravo shows you may have somebody who binge Watchers HDTV all the time like that's the the other piece of this is the rest of the consumer base that doesn't care about sports well sometimes they live with people who care about sports so it it may not be as big of a a product and as as roaring of success as you might think at the outset because they do have to to win those people over as well and I don't know if you're going to if those people want those other products then they're they're probably going to pay for for sling or for YouTube TV if they just want the sports which would be my situation and the price is right that I'm feeling pretty good about switching over so I will I I would watch this one carefully and it's going to be it's going to be pretty interesting uh Ferris in the chat says Sing cost $40 me $40 a month and gives me all the ESPN networks then I get streaming services on and off so and that's the thing are they going to be able to beat the price if they can then yeah ESPN and fox have a really strong incentive to work together but it is going to be very interesting to see how how well that product lands what it's going to cost and yet does it allow the SEC and the Big 10 to work together more again this is such a strange situation because when Kevin waren was running the Big 10 the idea of the SEC and the Big 10 working together seemed very farfetched Kevin Warren and and Greg sanki did not get along but Tony peti and Greg sanki do get along and you know I if you're the ACC if you're the Big 12 you're side eyeing this like crazy because yeah all of it probably seems scary to you next question comes from DCH if CFB college football New Committee Selection Process? consolidation happens resulting in a super league with a much smaller number of teams is it possible the day may come where playoff teams are selected based only on win loss records with no human voting either rankings or committee and that is a very interesting question you would have to have a super league for that because the reason the NFL can do it the NFL has very clearly defined rules for how you make the playoffs you know you you you can win your Division and if you win your division then you get automatically a home game but if you are one of the non division winners with the best record and you win the tiebreakers you're you get a wild card spot and so there are things they do to kind of massage it where if you were one of the best teams last year they sprinkle in a couple tougher games if you were one of the worst teams last year they sprinkle in a couple easier games but the reason it works is because the divisions are relatively equal or at least they're attempted to be made equal and there years where some divisions are better than others the NFC North this year was was pretty good um you know but I'm say the AFC North uh but the effort is made to make them as equal as possible the conferences are not equal as we know so you can't have objective criteria like that because the schedules are highly unequal but if you had a 40 team Super League say and you divided it into into four 10 team divisions or uh eight five team divisions or however you wanted to do it and the schedules were fairly equal and you had a wild card system where just in case your division was super tough you didn't get shut out because you wound up in a tougher division than everywhere else then yeah you could do it you could definitely do it it it would take that subjectivity out of it now I would argue that the subjectivity in college football is a feature not a bug especially with the 12 team playoff because the the team team that gets left out of the 12 team playoff doesn't really have a legitimate claim on the national title really really doesn't most years that's not going to be the case but I do think if they get to that point they could do that but they'd have to divide it that way and if you do that you do take some of the regional flavor out of college football but I would argue that realignment has already taken much of the regional flavor out of college football the big 10 in 2024 will stretch from Piscataway New Jersey to Los Angeles and up to Seattle and and you know down well they haven't gone in the South yet but give it time give it time actually that brings me to my next question this one is from Nick how large of a domino will it be How big of a domino will it be when FSU leaves ACC? when Florida State leaves the ACC and will there be an Uber three after that so I think Nick is saying we need to have another poll if that happens uh and figure out what we're going to call thep group we're call we've agreed on core 4 by the way for the time being for as long as it's the SEC and the Big 10 are something different than the ACC and the Big 12 but the four of them are probably the ones that are going to be your top four like their Champs will be your top four seeds in the 12 team playoff we're going to call them the core for for now that's that's what you guys decided on Twitter and that's that's where we're going with that but what would happen if Florida State got out of the ACC and I think right now we're talking about a question of of when and not if it's going to happen the question is when is it going to happen and there was an Michael mcan's employer sportico they had an interesting story last week about Florida States search for private Equity to help them by their way out of the ACC I mean essentially and I think there the way Florida state is approaching this is a little bit different like Clemson and North Carolina would also like out or or would like a chance to get a better deal but they're not as aggressive and Florida State seems to be operating under the assumption that they are just going to try to to make the money or get the money that they need to buy their way out if it winds up being full price now in real life usually negotiations happen and you don't end up paying full price at this level of of money but the ACC has a very vested interest in making sure it stays together and if one gets out they can all get out so would it be a huge Domino yes it'll be a massive Domino whenever it happens because if Florida state gets out Clemson and North Carolina probably gone to Miami's probably gone to and then then you see what happens with the rest of it you know where do they where does the rest fit in to the picture what happens to the Big 12 as it becomes the last of the middle class like that is there's a lot going on there and again I don't know when it's going to happen I'm not sure if you'd asked me this time last year I would have said I proa what I don't know maybe 2030 I think it's going to be sooner than that and so the date to keep in mind is August 15th that would be the the date for Florida State to announce that they are leaving the ACC and won't be in the ACC in 2025 you know last year August 15th came and went they did not say they were leaving so that's the withdrawal date so keep an eye on on that particular date but I do think it's it's a matter of when and not if and it would be a very big Domino because it would change quite a bit for everybody because it it would free up now the question is would the SEC or the Big 10 immediately jump on whoever the big dogs in that League are that want to go I don't know I don't know and it kind of depends on when it is because I do think the SEC and the Big 10 are looking at this like okay we got a 16 Team league in the SEC 18 Team league in the Big 10 want to see how running this works how this all works but I do think as the business model changes the idea of consolidating the biggest and best Brands becomes a priority and if some of those Brands happen to be available then they probably go for them so we'll see what happens related to that we have a A look at Virginia Tech and the ACC question from Patrick dear Andy what do you see as the long-term future for the hokeys after a decade of mediocrity on the field Gaff after Gaff off the field can a p this passionate fan base reasonably believe it can perform as a consistent top 25 program under Brent pry late season results trended in a good direction though clearly still in Talent depth and nil has kept our more talented players like strong Delan and Tutton on the in the boat so far am I just grasping for any reason to believe again that's part one of Patrick's question we'll we'll answer that and then go to part two I do think Virginia Tech ended the season on a nice little trajectory I was very pleasantly surprised with the way Virginia Tech bounced back from a terrifically bad start last season let's not forget how things started in Brent prize year 2 where they beat Old Dominion which was better than losing to Old Dominion the year before but then they quickly lost to Purdue Ruckers and Marshall and I remember watching that Marshall game and thinking what is where's this going here well it got better they ended the season seven- six beat up on two lane in the bowl game and I realized that was not the full strength T Lane but what seemed to get better as the season went on especially was Tyler bow and the offensive coordinator just understanding how really to use Kiren drones at quarterback and really kind of finding his way as a play caller you know the thing about it is Bowen was not an experienced play caller he worked at Penn State with pry he'd been the tight ends coach with Urban Meyer at with the Jacksonville Jaguars so his situation was that he's coming in and doing something that's a little bit new and it took a while but I really did like the way they evolved offensively as the season went on and and if you watch that bowl game like they Tyler bow TBO as they call him was doing a heavy dose of keep calling the play that works which you know I'm a huge fan of so I am uh I am very intrigued to see where they go from here because uh as Patrick pointed out their nil did allow them to keep a lot of this roster together and so I think I think it's going to be fun I I'm excited to see where they go from here because I got to I'm not going to lie I had my doubts in the middle of the season I thought oh this this is not going well this is going to end very badly and now I think there's a chance now look it's it's one of those 50% of marriages end in divorce kind of things like all these jobs are hard but I do think Brent pry is growing as a head coach you saw Tyler bone grow as an offensive coordinator so I'm excited to see where they go from here the rest of Patrick's question is a little more big picture finally regarding the future of the ACC is it easy to understand the brand or sorry excuse me it is easy to understand the Brand Power of Clemson Florida State and North Carolina and Miami but where do schools like Virginia Tech and NC State stand the passion for football is deep the fan bases are great and even the real lean years are few and far between even compared to much larg larger programs while the Big 12 would be a pretty fun eventual Landing place I'd love to have a sliver of Hope for these schools to make it to the big time in the next round of realignment Shenanigans I do appreciate you calling it realignment Shenanigans that's excellent so the NC State thing's interesting because the in the North Carolina legislature just basically passed a bill that North car it kind of ties North Carolina and NC State together and NC State is a very interesting football fan base to me because they're super passionate they're not what you you think about when you think about a typical ACC fan base and Virginia Tech's kind of the same boat like they're not the biggest fan bases in the world but they are massively passionate you look at those stadiums every Saturday they're rocking they're wild I do think they'd be great additions like they they culturally I think would fit in the SEC very well I just don't know if they would get the invite and now if NC State's tied to North Carolina we do know that the SEC and the Big 10 do both covet North Carolina so so if it's one of those where you have to take NC State to get North Carolina I think both those leagues might be open to that conversation Virginia Tech we you know they've typically been tied to Virginia and and you know Virginia helped them get into the ACC a few years ago Virginia's one that I I would imagine the Big 10 feels like fits very well there but the question is if you're the people at Fox who help quote unquote help make a lot of decisions in the Big 10 now are they a big enough football brand to to want like would Virginia and V Virginia Tech be big enough football Brands to carry the amount that they would require because in that big super league let's say let's say you did it as a 45 team group or something like that are they going to command that level of money and I think the question becomes like where where do you draw the line how big is that league if that League ever happened how big is that would that League be would it be 36 40 44 would be 48 we don't know we don't know and and it's it's one of those I think the TV execs would would pull the I know it when I see it situation like there's the cut line and that's the tricky part for a team like Virginia Tech a program like NC State it's they're they're right there near the cut line it's just a matter of where they decide to put it that's the hard part so I am uh the big picture in the ACC is really really wild because if Florida state gets out it sort of just opens Pandora's Box and with everything else changing this might be the time to do it before we get to our our sooner question and it's a good one the truth in the chat has a has a food question random question spicy wings or normal wings no spice at all see here's my I take issue with this question normal to me is spicy like Bland wings are not any kind of wings that I would seek out now you could do like the Parmesan sauce or something like that which is not necessarily spicy but I am looking for some sort of flavoring on my wings even if it's a dry I actually do like dry rub Wings quite a bit th those are I don't want my wings dripping in sauce I like them nicely tossed if the sauce is good but I do enjoy a dry rub one uh if you are ever in the state of Alabama Mo's Original Barbecue is a chain in Alabama they make great they do so they are brind smoked and fried wings and they are awesome and you get them with the dry rub on them and it's it's a hell of a meal so I I think I always go with spicy or some sort of flavor but probably spicy I like I like spicy food I I don't necessarily go you know fullon Habano but I want it on the spicier end of the scale all right next question comes from Harry I am one of those sooner die hards Best Food Spots in Oxford planning a trip to Old Miss what are some good food options in Oxford Mississippi well you've got your chicken on a stick at the gas station Ed oraron was a big proponent of that I'm not kidding it's delicious you should have it but we'll give you some some other ideas there's a chef named John currence who has built an empire in Oxford he's got several restaurants there City groceries the most famous that's your white table cloth the shrimp and grits are probably the best thing on the menu it's great I would say go to snack bar though of the current dinner spots snack bar is a little more laid-back but the food is fantastic uh River my producer has a predict a picture of my lamb shank from snack no no that's Big Bad Breakfast also a current current place this the lamb shank River it's not not not biscuits um but we so we we got the lamb shank there but they have a great bar great cocktail menu so that's a really cool place for a nice chill dinner uh if it's harder if you're there there's the lamb shank it's harder if you're there on a Friday night because everything is is just mobbed but snack bar is off the square so it it could be less mob now right next to snack bar now you bring up the biscuits now River uh right next to snack bar is Big Bad breakfast which is another current Place those are biscuits and tomato gravy I highly recommend those that's just a great breakfast spot they they have one in Birmingham as well but the original is in Oxford and it's a spectacular way to start your day outside of that group Ajax Diner Ajax Diner's on the Square it is probably the best example of a meet and three if you're Southern you know exactly what a meet and three is that's you get one meat and then three vegetables so the photo that River's showing is the last time I went to a Ajax Diner I was with my buddy Ari werman we got the we both got the the country fried steak sandwich and so it comes with mashed potatoes on the sandwich big old hunk country fried steak and I got I think it was I think they had turnup greens that day uh so turnip greens blackeyed peas and butterbeans and it was awesome just awesome and I I I'm I'm a big fan of the meat three I sometimes I'll even go veggie plate at the meet and three where you just pick out four different size and look we use the term vegetable Loosely cuz all the vegetables have meat in them too but Ajax Diner spectacular also if you want to go to a little out of town Taylor grocery for some fish so lots of great options in Oxford if you're going to Oxford you're probably going through Memphis if you want to make a side trip to Mason Tennessee the original Augustus Fried Chicken is in Mason Tennessee it is awesome the first time I went there the guy said listen we we're only selling eight pieces right now I said then I will take an eight piece and I housed that eight piece it was tremendous so do that too but I like this we we we probably need to throw one of these in pretty much every week we got we got fans that are coming to New leagues so you got fans that are that are big 10 is expanding by 4 teams so you're going to be going to La you're going to be going to Eugene to Seattle and then obviously those people are going to be going to Columbus and State College and in Arbor and they're going to want to know where to go same thing the SEC Texas fans Oklahoma fans want to know where to go in their new places and obviously the the old line SEC people want to go to Norman and Austin where do where do we go there I have been to most of these places I have a list I have a list so this may become a regular weekly Fe feature last question though from Mitch is the CW planning to expand ACC CW's Coverage of ACC? coverage in the future no that so the CW if you read the most recent Florida State versus the ACC Salvo and this is the one where Florida state is suing the ACC in Florida not the one where the ACC is suing Florida State in North Carolina uh they mentioned they mentioned the the Raycom deal Raycom was the the service that televised a lot of the acc's games for years and years and years and years it was sweetheart deal uh John Swafford the former commissioner his son worked there and Florida State you know accuses it of just being like a a carve out sweetheart thing that that actually cost ACC schools money but what the CW thing is is the remnants of that where there were these games that were subl licensed Ed off of you know by ESPN and a lot of it is ESPN doesn't have bandwidth to to show every single one so they suced this package of games now and so they subl licensed these to the CW starting last year which really expanded the reach of those particular games and there's some really interesting like it was a bad deal to be a touchdown favorite in some of those games my guy James Bates on the call he got some crazy games uh so pit was a six and a half Point favorite and lost in Cincinnati Louisville was a touchdown favorite remember right after they beat Notre Dame they went and lost a pit Clemson was a nine and a half Point favorite when it lost to NC State on the CW and the biggie was North Carolina was a 24o favorite when it lost to Virginia on the CW so it's a limited menu on the old CW but man they got some interesting games I don't I don't know what it is but when you get when you get thrown to the CW and my guy James Bates anything can happen we do love your questions they are tremendous Conclusion so we'll get those restaurant guides going keep asking about that obviously the sport is changing faster than we can even keep track so keep asking those great questions programming note we've mentioned this earlier this week but in case you missed it starting next week we will begin Broadcasting Monday through Friday 8: to 9:00 a.m. eastern time so we're switching from we were Sunday through Thursday 8: to 900 p.m. eastern time we are now Monday through Friday 8:00 to 9: a.m. eastern time the podcast version if you're a podcast listener will be up immediately after that so come join us with your coffee in the morning if you're on the west coast watch Sunrise with us love it thanks so much we'll talk to you tomorrow oh