Caleb Williams' Potential, Eagles' Draft Success & 49ers Offseason | 2024 NFL Draft with Ben Solak

if you could see anybody return the new kickoff that's unorthodox and maybe won't return a new kickoff who would it be Milada is definitely up there D dude it would be so you got to do it like I I don't know enough about rugby uh to to name the plays correctly so forgive me but you have to do it where where the one guy receives it and then he just tosses it so so the returner gets it with a full head of steam he's already moving at velocity it's like a reverse yeah yeah my L 100% I would watch just just just for the enjoyment of it oh no question that'd be a good one [Music] all right we got the right guy on the show authority authority The Authority do you have a nickname Ben not really everybody the ringer calls me solac because there were like nine BS there before me but that's about it all right so there's a take that I wanted to to to talk to you about that somebody just alerted me of when when I walked in the door they were like do you know Ben solak thinks that food takes too long that eating is inefficient uh and I just wanted to say I totally agree with you thank you Chris I appreciate it I got remarkably more support for that take than I thought I was going to honestly when I piloted I thought I was going to be just the one man on the island though I will say most linemen are not with me on this one I guess defensive linemen probably I I get a better representation with but gock was pissed dude he was not pleased I'm sure goic was mad I'm just a busy guy and I don't like things that are pointless you know like to me lunch is one of the most pointless things of all time not eating lunch but when somebody says do you want to do lunch I'm like do lunch what the [ __ ] do you mean can't we just meet up and talk right you know what I mean I got stuff to get done today I got there I got chores out there I got chores in here sitting down for lunch for an hour for a salad what are we talking about what's a breakfast for you how what make loves this what's a what's a breakfast for Ben Sol like how long does it take toare so I'm a big in a minute fast guy cuz like I just don't I don't I don't love the uh I it takes too long so I usually am passing on breakfast that said when I'm like if I'm if I'm going for it I love to make like an overnight oats or like an oatmeal that's and I'll go instant oats to overnight oatmeal anything in between but just give me like a quick mush that has the calories that are necessary throw some berries on there so it tastes good nice and easy in college I used to eat Top Ramen raw that's how committed to your bid I am well also you would often it could be kale it could be spinach but you would just by the fistfuls put leafy greens into your mouth that's right and that makes me this is the last thing I want to ask Ben about this thing is like half of your media that you post that's nonf football related is your garden and your fishing Expeditions that to me takes a while that's part of the food process and so it is a little bit contradictory that you you you you rush through breakfast but you spend all the time out in your Garden harvesting yeah so the thing with the gardening and the fishing is that I enjoy the the the process and the fact that like I'm not doing it for the food at the end it's just For the Love of the Game like it's it's funny my my wife is a is she loves to cook and Sh that's that's that's her thing that's her joy and I try to participate in that as much as I can but the garden works great because like I I like the the science of it I like the raising the plants of it and like seeing it grow up from seed it's crazy and it's it's fun to take care of it gets me outside put around with my hands and then moment the Tomato exists on the vine I'm like okay mission accomplished like I'm done like that that's what I wanted to to pull off I wanted to grow the zucchini I got the zucchini that's where my wife comes in she's like all right sick what I wanted was the zucchini I didn't want to deal with dirt and fertilizer and TRS on my hands and knees I just wanted the zucchini so I handed off right there and then we're cooking zucchini if Drake May were a vegetable in your garden this the sweet potato takes a lot of time to grow takes an investment but really worth it at the end I I like a drake may I and I think I I like him New England better than a lot of people do I got I got faith Drake do sweet potatoes grow in shitty soil because that's that's my next question you know like if you if you had a garden if you had three Gardens outside and you planted sweet potatoes in Chicago if you planted sweet potatoes in DC if you planted sweet potatoes in Foxboro I feel like the ones in Foxboro right now would have a harder time you know turning into big healthy sweet potatoes that Ben Sak's gonna want to Chef up you can you can you can grow a sweet potato in an average soil potatoes and sweet potatoes are generally pretty good for they just take a long time yeah yeah so I do yeah the soil in New England I agree little little worried about that rela the soil just got a little bit less friendly uh to said sweet potato because Zeke Elliott just signed with the Cowboys he was their leading receiver in New England last year so I get maybe we'll just start there as like you know how do you project and is it unfair to to I say this every year with with high picks like is it unfair to evaluate Drake May Jaden Daniels and Caleb Williams the same because they are being dropped into completely different situations you don't see guys walk in to Great situations like Caleb has and I'm I'm not handicapping Drake May he's not like my favorite guy in the draft but I do feel for him walking into that situation in New England if you were the Patriots how would you play this out would you would you would you start him right away would you would you protect him what are some things they can do to kind of kind of take care of him early in his career yeah it's the million dollar question right you invested in the guy now how are you going to bring him up uh the first thing that I always say is that people learn in different ways right everybody wants to sit quarterbacks understandably so but if a guy learns by going out there and making mistakes which I think is is a very real thing that you've seen quarterbacks do in the league then you kind of have to let them go out there and understand there are some rookie lumps that you can't take holding the clipboard right there's some bumps in the road that you can't you got to the bullets got to be live and if that means you'll lose a week seven game to the bills in 2024 it's worth it you might beat him in 2025 right and so so you your job is to get the guy into the building and then all right he's qb2 he's behind Jacoby he's you're saw in the Playbook if you like how he's learning back there and you feel good about sitting him for eight weeks 10 weeks go for it but if you feel like all right like it's when we're out there on the practice field that he's you know making a mistake and he comes back the next drive and he doesn't make it again we need to get him out there and let him make those mistakes early let him make them right now so that way he's not making them down the road evaluating him can be challenging in in bad contexts but I always like to remind people man the 2021 Jaguars Urban Meyer one of the worst managed teams we ever saw three and4 first overall pick Trevor Lawrence was a rookie in that team they weren't good they terrible team barely won a game but we all watched Trevor and went oh yeah okay okay like it that guy's an NFL right now people had you know he's the next Andrew Luck expectations and he didn't hit that nor has he hit that over the last few few years but you could still watch him even when he was throwing 120 targets to Marvin Jones and 100 to Lisa chanol and playing behind a work offensive line you could still watch him be like oh yeah I I I see the NFL in there like we we clearly hate on the guy we know he's good you can have that with Drake May where he walks out there and like the wide receiver room isn't ready and the offense doesn't work for you and they're losing games but still every week you're watching him going okay they got a guy for sure so there is value to starting a dude even when the the the the the Personnel may not be ready for him yet now if you were to make a case for the the the top three quarterbacks selected and it's a hypothetical five years down the line let's finish this sentence with each of their names Caleb Williams let's start with him was not successful because he probably never leveled out the risk and reward right he Caleb loves to believe that he's got a better play if he just gets outside of the pocket he's got a better play if he just kind of gets around a rusher and most of the time I'm pretty confident the risk is worth the reward with him because the throws that he can make but it probably he just is a little bit too uh aggressive a little bit too willing to get to that second reaction play and just never stays in yeah and how about for Jaden Daniels uh the frame and the play style I I'm worried about Jaden I Jaden my line on Jaden pre draft was No One's Gonna Be Right on him because he's such a polar quarterback he's like all right like if this works he's gonna be undefendable and if he starts to accumulate injury and he can't run or if teams are really good at at you know getting him off his first and getting him out out of the pocket this is going to become untenable it's going to be like you know watching Jaylen Herz last year when he was hurt and you're just like all this is not a real offense it's not stressing defenses out the way that it needs to and so to me like injury concern and play style concern the amount he gets outside of the pocket takes hits he's one read and scramble guy that's that's what's gonna hurt and ironically he kind of reminds me frame from a frame standpoint of RG3 you know he's a little bit more slender he's he you know he's he runs the the same way like they're they're athletic they can hurt you with their legs but you know they're and people love to bring up like you know Fields 240 Richardson 245 these guys got hurt these these big body types but I mean like you'll know Chris I think folks still know like this is a big people hit Little People Game and Jane Danel is thin right it's less about the the the shot that he takes when he's actively a runner and he's trying to you know avoid contact to take glancing blows it's more about the shot that he takes when he breaks the pocket he scrambling to his right and he doesn't know that the edge rusher took a long Loop and is right behind him and it's that contact that comes when he's not protecting himself where he doesn't have the body armor to take it that's what worries and is there anything from Drake style of play outside of the New England uh pitfalls from a roster stand or Joe Milton or could be the guy or Joe Milton yeah Drake do take a 5 yard Route and there's a 50 yard Route that might be open down the field and that's the problem with him is Drake's Big Game Hunter uh and it's nice when you get the picture with the eight-point buck but sometimes you go home empty-handed and so it's a little bit the same risk management that we talk about with Caleb Caleb's more so you know getting outside of structure and kind of ignoring the first the the the the first read of the play Drake is more listen like sometimes you we play for second and eight sometimes we play to stay on script we only have so many third and calls young man we can't keep getting to this long down and distance especially if we can't pass protect for you which is might be an issue in New England and so for him it's being more willing to take the underneath stuff right now and not try to win every single game in one or two point I think what also might help Drake May is like when you think about quarterbacks going to your rookie year who are you going to be practicing against I mean that defense is is is not is not is not anything to sneeze at dude that's like a pro defense and when you're going to see those guys every day in practice at least that balances out some of the ineptitude on offense because you're going to be used and ifake and college both like two years ago when he had the really 2022 season then in 2023 in his little Shak year man he knew that if he left the field at 2828 he was coming back on the field at 2835 like defensively when they went up against any real offenses they just were not consistently getting stops and so it's gonna be a thing for him to learn how to put that Superman cape up and let another player win the game for him not necessarily on his own offense but just on your defense dude like if you can if you can get us some good field position just pick up a first down don't throw an interception you you give that opposing offense 85 yards to go man like our defense can can do some work for you they can keep you in a friendly spot and Caleb's going to have the same you know situation in Chicago with more Talent offensively because that defense is going to be tough to practice against and all that stuff all right so let's let's rip the Band-Aid off let's do the Michael penck thing because initially when it happened full disclosure making an I like I can't hate it like I and I know that there are a lot of very smart football people that hate it and they look at things glass half full and they look at Kirk's contract and look at some of the other holes but when I looked at Atlanta last year I said 10- Win team if door Dash Desmond Ritter is not their quarterback um I think the roster especially offensively is in a better place than most people think there are pieces defensively they had to fill right I would say this you're sitting there at eight there is a risk that if you pass up on them there you know there's a reality where they love him more than than than Bo Knicks and they love him more than JJ McCarthy I know know people say JJ would have been the perfect guy to do this with because of age and that sort of thing but I look at eight and I say there were a bunch of teams that were passing up on defensive players right and a lot of them might have had needs defensively I don't think the bridge to this working out is that long it's just got to work out if Michael Pennock is a pro quarterback I think we'll look back at this and say hey good move what do you see any side of that argument I think the the core of the argument which is that we want to be investing qb2 is sound right I think you you saw the Jordan love pick with Aaron Rogers the Jaylen Herz pick with with Carson Wentz the Lamar Jacks pick with Joe flaca over the last five six years teams have been more willing to invest in quarterback 2 earlier you've also seen over the last couple of years especially postco and post improved concussion protocols more and more quarterbacks start a game in a season than ever before right we're we there's just more Reps for qb2 and qb3 there's more instances in which you need qb2 or qb3 this also goes to expanding you know schematic work right the hand offense and all these guys they've made it so much easier to win with quarterback 18 League wide right with quarterback 20 League wide so if you can find a guy who just is functional at the NFL level you can actually build a much better offense out of him than you usually could so the last five six years man really been defined by quarterback to becoming a more valuable position and the Falcons said we want to invest in this so the core of that is good eight overall to take qb4 six weeks after $100 million guaranteed to Kurt Cousins is where you lose me right I agree we should be investing in this feels like Leaps and Bounds more than we should be this feels like really really pushing the envelope here now you made the point if penx is good then the penx is good and that's always the case with the draft being Q2 you know that's the thing you get yourself a good player you get yourself a good player make no bones about it a lot of the value of rookie contract quarterbacks though is the fact that they are so much cheaper than replacement guys yeah and and and so you're going to get multiple years in which your quarterback room costs dramatically less than the other quarterback room with plus starters well if you're dealing with KK cousins dead money and also penics at the eighth overall contract is not jayen herds with the 53rd contract or Lamar Jacks with a 32nd or Dak Prescott with 113th or whatever it was yeah you're not getting as much meat on the bone as the other guys did because you drafted the 24 year old by the time he gets to the end of his first contract he's already going to be in his prime you're not getting as much meat on the bone as the other guys did so that's where I feel you lose me is I feel like the the core of the philosophy made sense but the execution here just feels like we went way too far at what is like largely a good effort do you think it would be viewed differently at all if if we said Kurt Cousins has a two-year contract which I think is how the Falcons effectively they with the decrease in dead money so I like I I certainly think it can be again you just gave him the deal and that's what confuses me if he was worth two years it would be about a hundred million in terms of the guarantees if they cut him after two seasons that' be he'll make about 100 total if you if he was already on that and that was that was sitting there and that was hanging over your head but you w wanted to invest in qb2 I'd understand it a little bit more than actively choosing to bring cousins in and then make the elction relative to like bringing in a jacobe brassette think about the the the Giants in 2023 in the spring of 23 13 months ago the Giants said we want to give Daniel Jones 160 million over four years and then 13 months later they were like we want to take a quarterback at six we don't know if if we if we like this as much they made the investment but then got another year of data said ah we we let's move off our mistake fast the Falcons did it in five weeks like like it's the time it makes you wonder it makes you wonder privately if Kirk said something to the effect of I'm going to play two more years and I want to raise my kids like I want to move back to wherever I live and you know like football has been great to me but I want to play two more years and if they' have said something like that if he have said something like that he might have unknowingly set the wheels in motion for a replacement yeah but also it would make it a lot more palatable I think if you knew this is a two-year rental for Kirk because another thing is all right I found out to um I believe that will Levis is the oldest quarterback in the division in the AFC South okay Michael penx has a shot to be the oldest quarterback in the division when he first takes a start I mean you look at like Derek Carr's deal you look at uh Baker Mayfield down in Tampa you know Bryce young they could be hit all three of those teams could be hitting the reset button in two years and let's say Michael penx has a little Jordan love in him I just think there's a universe where this works out and I also think the team's good enough yes this does I don't know how you quantify it knock down their chances of being the best they could be over the next 2 three years because of the salary and some of the prohibitive stuff there but I would say it's like a five five to 7% decrease which is which is major but you are kicking the can down the road to increase your successes over the Long Haul in my opinion and and I don't mind the long game that's all I'm saying and and I love when teams are willing to make longterm Investments my thing is always as a general manager you better know you're going to be there I'm not trying to trying to you know sew a seed and let somebody else the benefits Terry font's in year four he has made he has made four top 10 picks Terry font has fourth overall Kyle Pitts eighth overall ban Robinson eighth overall Drake London eighth overall Michael Pennock dude if this team isn't good you brought offensively there's no team in the league that's this invested in offense right now with all these picks all these second contracts offensive line this team isn't good I'm worried that when penx is taking those precious steps and we're seeing if this pick was worth it there's somebody else sitting in Terry seat he might not get to see it and you know like and that's all well and good but I also would say this and I said this the other night like if you look at what the Atlanta Falcons have done over the past couple years in the first round they have been unorthodox right and I would say that I don't blame the pits thing on the pick I blame it on the execution of the pit um I think bejan's otherworldly talented and I think Drake London everybody thought he was slow you draft a slow wide receiver you draft a running back in the top 10 you know people people have sh shake their heads at these guys before and it's worked out so I'll just say this like you know Arthur Blank giving him the keys I saw the the the argument afterwards like with so many things taken out of context nowadays people just jump at the opportunity to attach attach context to it I don't think Arthur is going to be in that room uh if he doesn't know there there's a possibility they take pennic I think they could have been arguing about like the sequencing of trading back or trading down but just Arthur to to have the faith in in Terry to make that pick I think says a lot um and we'll see I mean Arthur's pretty patient right um yeah I I think Atlanta I think Atlanta's got reasons to be excited but maybe just a little bit less in the immediacy now because they made this decision so um all right that's enough on them let's talk about the Eagles okay because we got a lot of birds fans here we we knew you with your bird's background but like I love the quinon pick I love addressing Corner that's a burning building like put the fire out immediately I know where he's going to fit where does Cooper deene fit in Vick's in Vick yeah great question I think that if they took Cooper Dee at 22 and quinan doesn't make it there and they were comfortable taking de at that spot they would have said hey outside corner too we're going to stick him there we think he's a corner for sure we need the spot he's great fit there we know he can play that position once you take quinon at 22 you get dein at 40 you say oh Cooper dein could play a lot of spots might be a safety for us might been you kind you change you change your tune a little bit and rightfully so I remember when Vic fio took over the defense in Denver and 2019 he signed Kareem Jackson from the Texans who' played Corner his entire time in Houston and he moved him to safety and they just said hey like you were you know that people say it's strong safety it's not really like box safety you're having him play over the slot and you're having him you know whoever number two ends up being tight end and he's he's stepping down into the box fairy soten kind of more the chony Gardner Johnson role I think that that's what they're going to Envision for Dee early because that's the way that he more easily gets on the field now they have chy and so you already have a guy that you really like over slots maybe Dee is your is your tight end match up guy you're going up against a team that runs a big slot they running Chris Godwin you want to go handle that Michael P you want to go handle that okay we're going to ask de to take this guy he's a little bit of a bigger body so it's it's unclear I think that what you have to decide is when you walk into Camp you kind of give the guy the Playbook and you see all right uh we're GNA give you some reps at outside corner we're going to give you some reps at box safety right in a strong safety spot and try to figure out where you work but pretty quickly you need to decide what you're going to ask him to do in year one because being a rookie is drinking out of the fire hose right I me it gets a lot of information coming out and that Vic Fango defense man that's a son of a gun right if you if you are asking a young player to learn three separate roles right okay you know our nickel spot our Corner Spot and our our our safety spot all in Camp like that I I just think you're not setting him up for early success so I think that that get him in there get him in rookie mini camp figure out where you want to start him in year one and then if he ends up just backing up Reed and chony Garner Johnson at safety all year that's okay if he ends up being Corner three on the outside all year that's okay but make sure you onboard him correctly so you know you set him up for Success down the road last year this time Eagles draft was an A+ you look back a year later how are you grading it Jaylen Carter at nine Nolan Smith at 30 Steen Brown Ringo yeah I mean like I I still think you have an a draft there Steen is going to get starting reps this year I think when they drafted him last year the expectation was not going to play and then step in we got to see what he is Nolan Smith was not going to get starting reps really they knew that was gonna be a developmental pick yeah they drafted a 239 pound ad rusher right you you're not expecting him to walk out and I remember I think he had to play a late game against the Giants and a run defense man like Nolan was just trying to survive right you body typewise he was just going to take a little bit of time Sydney Brown the guy gonna compete for starting reps they had a really loaded roster last year and so it was understandable to not get early production out of those guys they had great veterans Carter is the interesting one where you know through eight weeks nine weeks 10 weeks Jaylen Carter best defensive player in the draft one of the best rookies dominant Force then he started to lose gas a little bit and you had Carter now and Jordan Davis two Georgia drafted defensive tackles who've just faded down the stretch for you so what you you got to be able to ask is can we get 18 weeks 19 weeks 20 weeks of production out of these guys because Fletch ain't in the building anymore Javon har is in San Francisco right like this this is the this is the core now is these two defensive tackles and if you are going to fade in December at that position I mean your entire defense is going to suffer for it we saw that a little bit last season so Carter man like I'm still that kid can play Holy Smokes he's so good when he's on I just want to make sure he's on for the entire he's incredible and I think I think to your point if if your core is the defensive tackle room you're going to have to justify you know the investment in them and then also you know uh get some production to where you feel like you're unlocking their skill set I think it's all about the guys behind them which is why I'm so happy that they went that direction because as you saw last year as the secondary started to fall apart as the Run fits were worse for the backers everybody in that back second or seven really suffered and I think as a result those guys inside had to be you know as to do a little bit more than they were supposed to at that stage in their career so I think if they can put the fire out behind him you're going to see even better play from those defensive tackles we'll all be happy okay um troter where's he fit because you know like really cool story I'm a second generation NFL guy I think about like if i' have gotten draft by the Raiders or something like that but like he he he didn't strike me as a as a topend athlete and where does he and then also as a bigger conversation we've had it on this show before I think often we look at second generation players and we say they're they're going to be athletic you know like their genetics this that and third if you look down a list of second generation football players uh not all of them are more talented or even close to as talented as their dads so what do you actually get in getting a second generation player like why is that attractive right I think for the Eagles specifically with TR Jr you get get great Vibes which sounds like a joke but also Elizabeth ID right uh tr's going to have a lot of support from the fan base have a lot of patience from the fan base they're going to want to see a player like that succeed which helps a guy at least mentally transition from the college to the Bros right now it also comes with some high expectations right and he's not like a first- round pick so it's not like they're expecting him to be his pops tomorrow um but in general I do think that like okay put putting 54 on in in the midnight green getting the big cheers in the preseason it's gonna at least help a guy mentally feel like all right like I I I can go and I could succeed with this team you know Mr Lori you know Howie like you know some of those guys it Smooths the transition for the roster I mean linebacker play in Philadelphia last year was a travesty all right there's no two ways around it so yeah so noobi is back from injury but you can't really put too many eggs in that basket because he's been banged up now for the last couple Seasons you roll the dice on a Devon white you roll you know okay he's a a highly drafted round one guy who underachieved down the road in Tampa you roll the dice on a Zack Bond and Orin Burks these guys were linebacker threes on their respective teams maybe they can do a little bit more here in Philadelphia and then you take a Trotter in round five it's a little bit of snap in the pool stick Joker throwing it out and say like all right we're going to have tryouts somebody win a job here right I don't think they're going to walk into Camp saying any one of these five players is emphatically clearly a starter for us like this guy's the Green Dot we know we're starting him we go I think early on the favorite is noobe and Deon white and then after that you're trying to fill out the roster I agree with you on Trotter where filmwise yeah I've got a 6 foot 230 lb guy who just athletically changes Direction I think it's a little but lard doesn't take on block super great like he feels like a day three pick he is a day three pick contribute on special teams right be able to to to to to fill your role well and be a backup linebacker when you get in there he has to succeed the way he did at Clemson which was by being Wicked smart right and a lot of his best plays at Clemson were seeing it before it happened and then shooting a gap beating in a block and being there before the back got there and so there's a world where that succeeds but when you're betting on an athlete that that's this undersized to to win at NFL size you really are betting on like a David long sort of a guy right where okay he's 511 225 but he's just he's quick as a whip and he's so smart that he can get away with it that's a thin bet to make right that that doesn't happen every so often and so he'll have his opportunities it's a wide open room but you know they're they're dice rolling everywhere on linebacker and they're hoping somebody am am am I correct in seeing this on this list like Jim burrow Joe Burrow's dad was a defensive back in the NFL is that is that a that I did not know like like uh I'm I'm looking at DK metf his dad was a guard was he a guard in the NF yeah I knew metf I mean so this is crazy it's like uh I I always say Jackie Slater like perfect example if if it worked that way then Matt Slater would be a tackle you know kids come in all different shapes and sizes me and my brothers are like Russian dolls you know we're we all have different talents and talent levels and so it's like uh you try to project these second generation players if you're going to do it just on athleticism the game has also changed a lot from generation to generation so you're comparing the last generation of athletes to this generation Jim burrow out of Hampton Virginia went to Nebraska and played for the Green Bay Packers he's from Hampton for one season no way Jim BR from Hampton see how does that get buried man there's some really shock shocking ones in this thing here Chris would you have wanted to be drafted by the Raiders um 2008 I mean sure okay yeah sure it would have been fine it would have been a lot better if the Rams had just picked Matt Ryan and I'd ended up in [ __ ] New England or something slid to six you know what I mean um all right so another team that was really hot and heavy on the DBS and should have been was the Lions and I thought they had a really nice draft big fan of Brad Holmes to trade up and get Arnold they traded up a couple times rraw R straw who who's who's just as versatile as his name he can get in there and and he can he can tackle he can be a rake he can be a straw you can drink out of him you could you can you can you can uh you can rake the the infield with him uh the guy the guy I'll put his hat in there I really like Andis rraw number nine on my big board yeah I saw that I saw that he he fell a little bit but like what can you say about Detroit and what they're building here um and really the NFC North in general all drafting well like they're all having at least heralded draft class in the immediacy yeah NFC North I think is going to be real good this year and yeah for Detroit I think Detroit approach free agency the way you're supposed to where you go and say all right like let's plug all of our gaps so that way if we have to play a game tomorrow we'll be okay they go and get Carlton Davis Davis is Corner One cam Sutton is Corner two like we're fine and then cam Sutton legal situation all of a sudden there's no cam Sutton and so now you walk into the draft with the with the last thing that you want which is like a very obvious need and everybody's going to know kind of the the direction you want to go uh and the players you're going to Target so to be able to trade up and go grab terion Arnold who I think can be week one starter corner corner two can go out there and play NFL caliber athletes experiened at Alabama is he got wonderful movement skills for a corner outside the top 20 great and then to chase that with NX NIS Ron to understand we can't just draft a rookie and set it and forget it oh because tyon Arnold will be good like no it's a rookie man like there you can never be too confident in your drafting which I know is a funny thing to say about Brad Holmes right now because he's walking around with his chest out but you have to be willing to say okay like if Arnold doesn't hit let's go and get ourselves another Dart throw in rraw who I dude rraw has got short Corner syndrome where he's so good but then he he's short and so he's even better cuz he's mad short he's like every's under under under valuing me because I'm under six foot so I'm just going to be even better at what I'm good at because I'm mad that people don't think I'm good I loved rake straw so yeah there's there's a world where rake draw is able to get on the field in the slot and Brian Branch plays more traditional safety reps they got some some versatility there now which is nice this this was the right approach for them and then on day three Brad Holmes traded a future third round pick to go get it at six foot eight tackle out of Boston out of British Columbia because he just he just can now he's Brad holes he can do that that seems to we were talking about like a milata thing this guy's people didn't even know he get drafted this kid from uh from BC Giovanni Manu uh he's really raw and not Boston College British Columbia 67350 so healthy and he ran he ran Sub sub five I want to say ran in the 49 yeah and they're talking about they're talking about early playing him at guard before T kicking him to tackle which is just stupid imagine him pulling that's ludicrous stuff these times are insane just since when I ran dude it was like I ran a 478 and I was like awesome this 350 running a 49 like he he could catch me you know what I mean somebody in my mentions the other day was trying to convince me that they're going to have him return on the new kickoff and I was like no I don't know about that that'd be sick though that'd be sick um if you could see anybody return the new kickoff that's unorthodox and maybe won't return a new kickoff who would it be Mila's definitely up there D dude it would be so you got to do it like I I don't know enough about rugby uh to to name the plays correctly so forgive me but you have to do it where where the one guy receives it and then he just tosses it so so the returner gets it with a full head of steam he's already moving at velocity it's like a reverse yeah yeah myada 100% I would watch just just just for the enjoyment of it oh no question that'd be a good one hey Ben thank you for having the courage to say that Washington did not have a great draft it seems like oh you have a bunch of picks you have a new GM we we praise your draft you got the cool quarterback everything's great everything's great I didn't like it Ben I didn't like it one bit Yeah I and it's weird because they in free agency kind of did the whole like all right just Chuck veterans at every problem right okay just get names that we know and that way we we're decently functional and then in the draft didn't move around too much right didn't there was rumors oh they're going to move up aggressively to get like a top tier tackle didn't do that kind of stayed and picked they're kind of they're kind of in shotgun mode right now they're just just trying to get a a wide dispersal of options and then they're going to evaluate the roster over the course of the Season which is fine Ben Sate at just outside the top 50 like I wouldn't have been rushing to go get tight end uh uh uh Luke mcaffrey at at 100 great Bloodlines Another Second Generation guy why isn't he athletic yeah but it's it's uh like I don't know like I feel like if his name was Luke Wilson this guy was going to pick 180 like in terms of the film I think I think mcaffry is carrying a lot of weight for you there uh so I like Mikey Sanders still I like Johnny Newton there's a couple players I like but in terms of guys that I just wasn't huge on in this class Washington ended up with a few of them obviously the pick at two also is is a huge deal right because some of these quarterbacks are going to be good and some of them on it if you made wrong pick at two there's going be a lot of screenshots for the next few years and so I didn't think it was an out-of thee Park class for Adam Peters I really liked like the Michigan corner I did not realize especially when he was shutting down Marv that he's like 5'8 in change I know it's crazy why is that I don't know play taller he doesn't like yeah speaking of um well not speaking of anything I was going to make a different transition but I want to go to Buffalo that's an even better transition let's just speaking ofal let's go to Buffalo that's I'm going to transition everything on the show now speaking of Buffalo uh do you think do you think the bills nailed it because I I don't think there's anybody who had more pressure on them than Brandon Bean considering the window or lack of window uh that seems to be open in Buffalo and needing to go get a wide receiver I thought the body type was important in Keon Coleman that's the kid from Florida State they picked up the of the second big guy and actually I heard somebody mention in your show re it reminded them of coulston um and and and the Joe Brady connection of being in New Orleans having a bigger body guy right um I think that's cool I I think um I think passing on the Speedster worthy a lot of people look at that and say you know what are you doing but um you know waiting your turn and getting this big body kid who can play different areas and then also he's like catch radius guy cuz Josh a catch radius guy I mean he's going to spray the ball a little bit so what do you think about this pi and how do you think Buffalo did in general yeah I know zavier worthy ran the 421 but I can get speed down the street you know like there's there's so many track athletes now at receiver and there's diminishing returns too like 421 is sick because of the the record but 421 isn't really that much different than 4-31 in terms of how I'm putting you on the field and what you're doing for him right there's there there are some diminishing returns here uh Coleman now I don't get X receiver body type three level uh route running you know the catch Rus I don't get that at 33 all the time right wide receiver tends to be a great position to draft there's a lot of guys but in general this is a great body type to be able to get the Colston comp is a really good one I like that a lot I've been saying Michael Michael Thomas because again it's like a biger body you're gonna use him you're gonna use him shorten intermediate you're going to use him to to to to win it in in those those Tight Windows in zones kind of underneath and he can do the downfield stuff I know Bill's fans really are worried about oh he's got a bad contested catch Ray and Josh all doesn't like to throw to contested catch receivers because if you remember B thing in Allen's early career with the bills was they were like oh Josh Allen's really big throw up fight on the field let's go get Kelvin Benjamin and then he just never wanted to throw it to him because he likes to see players open I think that was true of young Josh Allen Josh is a grown boy now all right he's big big professional quarterback he can throw to a guy who's a little bit covered like he I I watched some of the interceptions Josh threw trust me he will throw to a guy cover gonna do that yeah yeah yeah so uh I know that that Bills fans worry a little bit about the contested catch stuff but I think that a lot of Coleman's contested catch stuff in college was a ver was a response to the quarterback that was throwing him the ball and just kind of throwing him into coverages that he really shouldn't have been targeted in you'll see this guy separate you see this guy run he runs better RS and people are giving him credit for and yeah in a room that had Khalil Shakir and Curtis Samuel you needed a body of of this type so I love the Coleman pick for them Cole Bishop out of Utah has a c has the sort of traits that that start typically in the shamer defense I like that for them Cedric van pran Granger great name Cedric van pran grer who was the was the center out of out of Georgia is is the sort of guy that they need to kind of protects they lost Mitch Morse this year and so you get a developmental guy behind it it was a good draft for Brandon Bean the problem is you bills are still what they are right bills they lost a lot of talent they've been getting older we we we've seen enough data at this point to know that if they sneak through the AFC it's going to be by the skin of their teeth and so I don't think this was like a a oh the bills are back draft I think it was okay the bills are trying to survive draft I think they also look at Josh Allen and think like hey what did he not do in that playoff game he did everything you know digs catch that ball they make that field goal like they probably end up playing in the in in the Super Bowl um I think he's that good I think they know he's that good and I think you look at at at you know not to say he's Mahomes but you look at Kansas City it wasn't like Kansas City was thr to a lot a lot of people last year and and Patrick Mahomes so you know they can get by if you've got a truly generational quarterback which I think Josh Allen is you can get by throwing to some guys and you know Curtis Samuel I feel like that's the devil that Joe Brady again knows right um so it it they can they can work it out but they're gonna have to play good defense which is what concerns me anyways um talking about a team that added uh a nice piece on defense in Jared verse and his teammate Fisk the Rams um I think I like what they did because I think what verse does is what Murphy doesn't do Murphy does not win a ton of rushes I'm talking about just winning R like I think he's a better athlete than a rusher at this stage in his career but I think eventually and he was very productive last year but a lot lot of it is he can really run and he can close windows and all that stuff this verse guy is a rolling ball of butcher knives like that's his style of play and I think pairing two guys that have different styles of play can be very fruitful for the uh for the LA Rams and they saw the need to go get somebody early to fortify pass rush gosh if you're the Rams how glad are you that you didn't make that Brian Burns trade a couple years ago you know yeah right sending the farm for yeah so so you end up with with with verse and you end up with Murphy and a young core and you go out and get a running back uh which a lot of people would say well well why you you liked your kid from Notre Dame last year well he was hurt for a couple weeks and they looked left-handed without him you know everything goes to the Run game for them you talk about a value in qb2 value at running back two I don't know about at that place in the draft but Blake corm they add him to the Back Field I thought they had a nice draft and for the first time in a long time I feel like lesne did not trade or or move around in the first round so this is very unorthodox draft for them yeah but you can only uh you can only not scratch the edge for so long they moved up 13 spots for FIS it's like all right I won't move up in round one but you better know in round two I'm getting mine uh yeah I like the heavy investment in the defensive line right I think that no team in the league knows better that Aaron Donald not just dominating on his own but making life easier so much easier for everybody else when he's just on the field once we lose that Force multiplier we know Kobe Turner's good Kobe probably ain't gonna look that good as good when he's not playing next to 99 anymore that's just the reality of 99's gravity and so being able to say all right with like you know understanding that we we we still like some of our guys we're going to spend a first- round pick at edge and a second round pick at defensive tackle and we're really going to make sure that we are uh prepared as best we can be for the Post Aaron Donald world is smart this was the one spot this defensive line where the Rams couldn't invest in free agency right they made multiple moves along the offensive line they felt I think pretty good about the wide receiver room puka and Cooper cup I'm sure they they thought about adding more guys there to to atw Demarcus Robinson but you know what we'll stick with what we got and then in the secondary is where they brought in travius white they brought in Darius Williams and they brought in uh cam curl right they they brought in all their veterans there and they said okay we the veterans are on the secondary the young guys will go on the defensive line and so they're they're hoping they're hoping that Darius Williams can can can reach the level of play that he had when he was last year they're hoping travius white can stay healthy and if they miss on that and they have to have the young guys again like this secondary was really really green last season and they survived you know they they hung in there they might need to readdress it next season but this was the one spot defensive line where they really couldn't add anybody uh in March and so in April it makes sense to double and to to to qualify I I think I said Murphy I can't get Byron Murphy out of my head because such a great [ __ ] fit fit up in Seattle I don't want to talk about that next but Byron Young's the guy I'm talking about the edge guy I just don't think he yeah I don't think he wins a lot of rushes but I think he's got great physical tools and I think you know some more time in the system he'll be a lot better but but to add guys with different styles of play is really good okay I think out of all the defensive guys the first two guys that got picked really had as good of fits as anybody latu and Murphy talk to me about those two selections and how you see them fitting in those respective defenses yeah so lot to at 15 to the Colts I love good clip of Chris Ballard with with with the nice hair Chris Ballard all right yeah draft dayce man I did I was like who is this guy I do I did not know who it was at first he's also not wearing he was wearing just like a button down he wasn't wearing team gear and I was like this could be anyone I've I've never met this man before it's Chris Balor uh the looks like Jesse yeah yeah yeah there's a great clip of him in the in the war room where after they take latu he just turns to the scouts he's like we's got the best [ __ ] rusher in the draft and that and yeah and they picked for the first defensive players you better but he is right latu if you took the the medical questions out of it I think he would have been clearly Edge one the entire process terms the hands in terms of the effort and using the length getting around you know softening that outside corner so you can bend around it like he is all that in a bag of chips l l is a high impact player and that's what they needed at Edge rusher because last year the Colts were top five in Team sets it was UN it was unbelievable they had like not great Corner play there's a gust Bradley defense like where did this come from and it's because quiddy pay has eight sacks and de adango was eight sacks and Samson Ebon was eight sacks and DeForest Buckner like tawon Lewis they just had so many good like B tier guys who were just producing and and contributing and it was like you know everybody all hands on deck all hands in the kitchen it was it was it was a a community effort so if you're going to add an edge rusher to that there's no real you don't need to add a guy at 80 at 80 overall like he's he's just not GNA really break that rotation you already have the rotation you need to add the star piece you need to add the crown jewel and that's latu latu is the potential to be a double digit sack guy to be the the guy who draws the double teams and he allows everybody to keep filling their role so l l to the Colts I also think latu even if he ends up in 8 to 10 sack he's going to affect things around him so much you know like where quiddy pay is going to fall into eight sacks he's the beneficiary right and I I with all due respect to the guy think you you put it like their B tier which is very good rushers in the NFL but you need but but but I mean this guy even if his production output isn't more than a quiddy pay or like immediately he's going to win rushes and force people off the spot because he's a he's a contact hitter and I mean that like as a as a as a you know a compliment because you there's a lot of guys and I talked about this last show that they they go for home runs the whole game they it's two three moves this guy is going to have a different move whatever set you give him and he's going to get people off the spot and he's going to win a high percentage rushes so I really like that and I like the the Murphy fit to me is awesome because of uh you know I think of matab and I think of the way he was used in that defense I can't wait to watch yeah Murphy man I'll never forget turn on Texas film to watch tandre sweat cuz he was the name right a big nose tackle Texas the entire time like who is this cat next to what are we talking about and then Murphy ends up being that round one player uh yeah if you're going to if you're going to invest in Leonard Williams right and you're going to say okay we want this to be a piece for us then you also want another defensive tackle who has some versatility to him right you need a guy who okay okay we're line him up at the three Tech and this will be good and whatever but when we want to bump Leonard's around then we need to be able to bump the other guy around we want we we we have to be able to to kind of mix and match here and the fact that Murphy can really play tackle to tackle and succeed because he's so weirdly good against the run for a player of his size he can just sit down anchor against a double team like a 320 pounder where are you getting this from he has such weird good strength when he when he's when he's anchoring against the run it it's a a force multiplier again it helps you maximize Leonard Williams and you get that that good play the defensive line that all of a sudden life a little easier for boy MAF it's a little bit easier for Derek H Neen nosu and these other young Edge rushers that you're trying to get to work and so that's it feels like the Seahawks have invested a lot in defensive line lately so like all right why I spend a top 16 pick at defensive tackle because this might be the guy who completes the set this might be the guy who who lets everybody else be maximized in their roles and all of a sudden lift off on the Seattle defensive line love the pick I agree I agree you know that that drop Target changes when you invest in the guys inside and I think you know those two guys outside they have are speed guys and so it really helps uh I want to talk about um the the uh the Chargers draft because speaking of the Chargers speaking of the Chargers let's go to buffal char I I um I don't I don't know that 's the best guy in the draft I think he's safe um but I think there might be more talented guys having said that picking up makoni in the second I I feel like it's okay that they didn't go receiver early because they they don't feel like the Delta's that big right and you know I remember a couple years ago the Cincinnati example of are we gonna take pen Su are we gonna take Jamar Chase they take Jamar Chase everybody's like see you don't have to take a tacle first well you also can um and I think it's an individual case by case basis whether it works out or not I I think lad makoni his paint job affected where he was drafted okay now I I think I think they're they had they picked up lad makoni in the middle of the first everybody's like you got your receiver I think they could end up having their receiver and a tackle coming out of this thing and I actually like their draft um they also drafted a a guy from Michigan uh Json yeah Coulson in the what in the in the third thir in the third so and then seventh round flyers on receivers which I love yeah you guys figure it out [ __ ] it figure it out the most competitive people in the draft like those people are those receivers are crazy like you know they they're they're playing for their lives out there so if you got a guy out there that you pick in the seventh round he's going to be very very motivated so I actually like their draft Yeah and and the the Su Chase theem is always so funny to me because both like the Lions and the chief and the Bengals are thrilled with the guys that they got and they're and then they also both like you know the Lions found their Aman Ro St Brown and the the the Bengals went and signed their Orlando Brown and like listen like there's a lot of different ways to skin a cat in the league and and you gotta go when you draft you have to go for the guys who you're GNA fit your culture and fit your approach and I think in this draft specifically it was correct for the Chargers to believe that they were more likely to be successful going tackle one wide receiver two and getting a guy in the second round than going wide receiver one and Tackle two and getting a guy at tackle in the second round just the the speed with which the tackles went off the board and then wide receiver it's always a very deep class because there's so many body types there so many roles there's so many athletes and college teams can actually like pass the football now they couldn't do this 20 years right so now like these wide receivers actually developing seven on seven football they get so many more reps like that just the there's just such a bounty of wide receivers available uh in round two and round three and I think in most drafts and so it to me it feels appropriate to take the tackle top 10 and and take take the wide receiver in the second round lad I think has a a good fit with Justin Herbert too because lad's such a timing guy such a separation guy gets where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be there catches everything there's nothing Herbert loves than just feeding that guy and throwing that guy beating the Zone Defenders and being on time with everything so the the makon pick makes sense to me Al is interesting right uh started at right tackle at Notre Dame moved to the left I was going to move back to the right to leave ran Slater on the left I agree with you there's there's a safety to him I think that uh you said lad you know the Payton job affected where he was drafted I think the I think the shirt affected where Jo was drafted we sure we sure like those gold caps um but I I I the other thing with all that's weird is he also like was a high school tight end like he he recently like you know sized up to be an offensive tackle so you can argue there's there's development there's meat on the bone and I would hear that too and so I it was such a talented tackle class in the top 10 top 15 that whoever took the first tackle I was always going to be like H I don't know there's some other guys right it it is a very difficult tackle class to pars all right you mentioned all being the first the eighth was Tyler gon at 29 then there was a cliff to 55 I really like giden all right so what are the chances that he can become one of those top four of those eight did he belong in the top eight before The Cliff Dallas at 24 goes to 29 and also picks up 73 which turns into Cooper BBE but I've heard you know Dallas was the come on do something Cooper BB not related to Don BBE I think it's too early to tell all right yeah I gon I struggled with gon Chris I think he have enough Sanders pants I thought he was it was a little bit light on still struggle with power I'm not saying I would Tak high but I like him he's an NFL player he's GNA play a long time maybe he could be gone next year welcome to yeah I won't even revisit it I was Brian Edwards I'm still waiting all right so um how do you consume the draft Ben because we had Good Vibes watching the draft and then muscle memory took me Twitter still going micro like hold on like four times and then the four times I went to Twitter I see Jordan Schult tipping a pick and then Ben Sola commenting about a pick yeah did you were you did Roger Goodell tell you the pick before you knew it at any point on Thursday Roger tells me a couple weeks out as a matter exactly drops drops the first couple around yeah it's s an email he sends it uh no I I I the nice thing is I used to be like when I was doing draft coverage that was what I did before I did the ringer it was like all right you're on a set like you're you know you're covering all seven rounds so now the draft for me is I love kicking my feet up I put ESPN on I've NFL Network on the other screen I'll be scrolling Twitter if I'm getting a if I if I see a pick on Twitter it doesn't break my heart oh dang it like go I software was announced crazy and if I'm you know off Twitter I'm doing something else I'm writing up grades or whatever and I'm seeing pic as they come that's fun for me too the draft is It's s such it's so much nicer to just be watching it as a TW our live stream the other night we were supposed to do a live stream like five people were like where's the live stream I'm like sorry dude yeah it turns out filling four hours of the first round with only 32 picks is extremely that's just it's a hard thing to do man if everyone's watching ESPN anyway then forget about it I want to ask you about two trades and then let you out here but like or possible trades the Trey Hendrickson thing uh you know he's talking about hey I'd like to be traded and I might retire which to me is like it's not really you're not helping the negotiation for yourself there uh but I think Trey would be really useful for a number of teams uh do you think something gets done and then also the same franchise going with Mims what does that say because they have two tackles uh they won't have them forever but this kid big developmental piece how are they going to use him early they going to play him inside is he just depth are they going to is it just one of these things where they know he's not ready because he's raw but eventually he's going to be a stud yeah so Trey Hendrickson I uh I wonder how many NFL fans know that Trey Hendrickson's had at least 13 sacks and three L four years Henderson dude and and I'll I'll be the first to say when they gain that deal out of New Orleans I was like you are outside of your melons what are we talking about and Trey Anderson made me e my words uh he's he's he's such a a A's such a good player doing what does well winning with that first step now like this is this is reliable and so long as that explosiveness stays he's going to stay a double digit sack guy now I understand why he's trying to get out of Cincy why he's trying to get more money from Cincy Cincinnati is not ready for a post Trey Hendrickson world I would be stunned if they moved Sam hubard having the injury issues on the other side of defensive end they drafted Joseph osai in the third round a few years ago to to be ready to replace Hendrickson he's not there they drafted miles Mercy in the first round last year to replace jck kenderson he's not there like they are bereft for Edge play but he yeah he is not I don't see him getting out of Cincinnati at all so that that's a tricky one to track amarius Mims firstly loves me in amer smims all just give me a six fo eight Behemoth who can run oh goodness gracious and in Cincinnati they really like those big tackles right they got Orlando Brown on the left and Trent Brown on the right right now they are super sized the Trent Brown contract is is a one-year deal right they are saying they wanted to walk into the draft with okay if we don't get a tackle we at least have a guy who can handle this for us for a year I think they view Brown as a one-year rental and there's also health concerns with Trent Brown so Mims to me I think they will on board him at tackle obviously played right at Georgia but not a ton of experience so I'm sure they'll give him some reps at left as well in Camp uh and then you're prepared for injury to either Orlando or Trent and I certainly think Mims is who they plan to be their 25 starter uh at right tackle and honestly I think that's the right approach like this line for them uh with the amount of injuries that Joe burrow has had I know like Cincinnati man you want to go and add to that pass rush you want to go and prepare for the T Higgins departure and they did that last year with some of their picks but you really need to make sure you protect Joe because Joe's getting banged up at this point early in his career and that's that's the Golden Goose if Joe's career ends early because he's losing athleticism or he's getting hurt too much as ball game so I investing in the line to me makes sense yeah and also investing in big bodies because I think Joe can step up he can navigate the pocket but one thing he can't to his is deal with and nobody can with with some 360 pound guys [ __ ] cleats on his toes which is how he got hurt last year trying to throw the ball Orlando got bowled into him and you know his his hand lands on I forget who it was I think it was uh Jonathan grenard it landed on Orlando because grenard bowled him back into Joe and I just think was it was it Clowny was it the Ravens I can never remember got Hur in Texans game he got he got hurt in the Tex game he came out in the Ravens game but when he got hurt when he moved yeah you know we kind of had this approve we had we we had the photos of him coming off the plane right with the cast so I went back through that game and it was like early in the game and Orlando got bowed back into him his right yeah you zap it it and and and I was like man they need to figure out a way I mean I know Orlando's real big and everything but they got to anchor because that's the one thing he can't deal with and nobody can it's like he's got to be able to set his feet and climb the pocket and you know the one place you can't get beat is through you and so I think it's a good move for them and I I love your thinking like on board him um okay and then the last one is auk gonna get moved like does the Ricky pel uh Piel uh picked the kid from Florida he's from Florida yeah uh does that indicate something or does it not uh I definitely think it indicates that they are ready for the Post iuk world even if they don't one year left on the deal right and and uh behind him you have Ronnie Bell and you know John Jennings but Jennings only has one year left on the deal and so I think they knew they needed to be prepared for some of the the post iuk worlds I think if iuk was to be moved it was more likely to happen in the last few days before the draft and into round one there were a lot of reports that they were calling a lot in round one talking about a Debo move talking about an iuk move the fact that it didn't happen to me means it's it's now unlikely to happen man uh brand IU cost about $28 Million last week and then Aman rosin Brown signed for 30 and AJ Brown signed for 32 like brand I doesn't cost $28 million anymore that's the issue right yeah if they if they if they couldn't get close on an extension before the draft to make auk happy to keep in San Francisco make the money right I'm not sure how they get it done afterwards they really would have to give a lot of ground so to me I expect auk to be a Niner in 24 does he show up to Camp show up in week one we'll find out but I expect him to play and then I think after that you're looking at the potential for free agency and Pierce all stepping into those shoes if you were John Lynch Mak and Ben and say there was a way to trade one of the two players Debo or auk who you trading keep auk I'm keeping auk I want to keep Debo it's tough I'll tell you why it's tough I do think Debo is more integral to that offense in terms of the role that he fills is but in terms of right health and and and and age and long-term availability yeah you have to be more worried exactly Debo like and and that role inherently is a physical role right you're handing him the ball like you are giving him shots after shots and and uh rapor had a report about this earlier this week where he said like they view him Debo as a bigger key to the offense as more integral to the offense and that's true but that doesn't mean less replaceable because he's kind of the sort of of role that you have to be willing to have a guy in the hopper for the fact that at 32 they at 31 they had zier Legette right 63 2 I just want to I love I love him so much right you have that that that thick body type that guy who can who can run with the football maybe be a Deo replacement and you have a piol who's more of a smooth route Runner separator the fact that they went for a piol indicates to me that they kind of view Debo as as more of the the unmovable piece so and I get that I could couldn't they look at and say hey age and injury and that sort of thing or whatever they didn't like him like they just might not have liked him I if I was the Niners and I could wave a magic wand I'd have traded Deo gotten everything I could for him paid auk and gone out and got Cordo Patterson and say Hey you do what Debo did I don't care if you're a poor man's Debo just do it because that's what you need you need that it's really Debo is explosive but it's the threat of a Debo and I'm not just talking about the explosives I'm talking about the threat of having that Wrinkle In Your offense to occupy eyes they might not not be the same amount of like big plays the Debo might get you but you got to find somebody to play that role eventually because the you you play your whole season and Brock py gets used to running one kind of offense and then if Debo's ding for the Wild Card you could lose the wild card game if Debo's ding for the divisional round you could lose the divisional round game so to me it's like you you you do set yourself up for a risk and you're really and you're trying what you're doing is you're trying to win a game on Tuesday right by saying hey like we have this sucker we'll put in the back field we jet s and touch you have to be prepared for all these constraint plays and all these parts of the Playbook that just if you're not ready for them we will just beat you on screens screw you so I have to spend a ton of time dealing with this and that just puts you on the back foot defensively if you lose a Debo and that's where like with Cordo Patterson you say okay like you know fit him into the role there there's there's there's veracity there there there's really good kill yeah then you watch Debo on like an 18 yard dig like adjust to a football four feet behind him make a catch you go Oh shoot that's right he can also do that that's makes that stuff's cool but maybe the kid from Florida can do it too we'll see hey Ben quick two parter out of here try to try to stay with me uh it appears that you've been standing for the entirety of this interview are you seeing any health benefits from standing and two what are you drinking from that mason jar yeah I'm I'm progress yeah the health benefits I'm becoming more and more like McAfee every day it's great I love it I'm going to start wearing that Baker wide receiver just he's standing in there in the yeah I um no I I like the standing desk I got um I got like ankle problems and such and so I I'm supposed to to stand a lot more and pay attention to it and so I always use podcast as good opportunity you see I've been like stretching this whole time I'm always like you know trying to fiddle around with a little bit I like the standing desk I feel like I get I get more energy when I'm standing I be energetic on the try he's got great energy sometimes when I listen to him I'm like man he's really [ __ ] excited but maybe poor ankle flexion yeah he might have ankle flexion yeah listen if I would not clear medical rechecks at the combine all right they would they' flag me for for sure uh and then yeah dude it's it's it's ice coffee season we got the first like Sunny warm weather up here in Michigan last couple of weeks so now every morning I'm my white girl grind all right I got coffee going uhhuh yeah with with with h what do you like it with all the the fixions I got it's so milk I'll be honest white special sure j z absolutely yeah I don't drink regular milk come on now all right well uh I appreciate the time Ben um I'm happy for you get to sit around for a little bit and not do anything I got the uh I got uh our first kids coming in a couple weeks and so I'm not going to be sitting around too much yes sir yeah yeah yeah so I I'll be off fraternity leave so it's off but it's not really off is it he was it plural I heard plural is it no I think he was saying my first kid's coming in a couple weeks like apostrophy apostrophe sorry that boy or girl uh we're having a girl which I'm real excited about nice and and if you could if you could your your future daughter if she becomes a football fan who do you want her favorite player to be and then we that's a great question I think so I I grew up an Eagles fan I grew up on like Trotter but I also grew up on on on Brian Dawkins Brian Westbrook those are my guys so if she's she's an Eagle fan and we get like oh dude if Quin and mitchard Mitchell is like is like a Leo Shepard or Sheldon brown ah dude I remember watching those guys in mid 2000s that was yeah Brown killed stepen Jackson in the open field my first NFL game I'll never forget seeing Stephen Jacks I've told this story before like Ben it's like you watch this guy all camp and he's just obliterating people and nobody wants to get in his way in our very first game we're down 30 at the link and Sheldon brown just decapitates him and he's not even a star he's like just a good player I'm like this is the NFL yeah um shout out brown I'll never forget that brown hit on Jackson and then doc on algae Crumpler no no knowing what I know now like I would not have celebrated that hit maybe as much as I did but when I was seven or whatever and I saw that hit I was like that this is the only thing I want to do for the rest of my life is just detonate on tight ends like Brian Dawkins and then you know uh uh physically I was not able to achieve that unfortunately but still man there's still hope we can develop him um Ben solak you can catch him uh on the ring at the ringer you can catch him on the Philly special podcast and as a frequent guest on the Bill Simmons podcast and I know Bill's probably very happy like Drake May so uh Ben appreciate the time and uh we we'll see you uh we'll see you soon yeah appreciate your fellas thank you [Music]