I USED TO BE FUNNY - Q&A | Dan Levy & Ally Pankiw | Film Independent Presents

[Music] and it's an incredibly terrifying experience to make something very personal why did we do it I don't it's psychologically it's a question for many many people sick but what I mean you were saying kind of some insightful things about what it did to prepare you for um putting out something so personal out into the world for people to watch it and have a opinions about it and ultimately it it it involves a kind of release no so what what was that experience like for you well we shot the film in at the end of 2021 so it has been a minute it's like sort of a complicated thing you realize oh it's about my mom um and then you make it in a vacuum with like in a very contained way and especially like we shot in Co so it was like this very small little insular production um and then and then yeah just with like the strikes and all of that and like the festival schedule of when we premiered it really was like you forget that anyone's going to watch it and then when we were leading up to it coming out I really was like wait why did I why did I make this again like you go like I know why I wanted to initially but now it feels very foolish to have to have made something why would anyone want to hear what I have to make but I think when you do make something that comes from a personal place and comes from an authentic place and comes from like a real want to say something that you feel is missing and and we can get into that like what I felt was missing maybe in terms of maybe avoid this film like film fills uh you are like okay I I don't know like the artist way just I mean like shout out Julia Cameron but she goes like you were given an idea for a reason it's like an spiritual guide book for anyone that doesn't know what it is do exercises you you Journal you do little exercises being like why am I creative what does it mean to me and and it really was like oh it just reminds you like yeah you are the person to tell this story for a reason and you shouldn't question it and you should just like be okay with the fact that it's happening at the right time mhm and I guess this was the right time not only because it's when it happened but also because Rachel Senate became the most famous person on Earth since we shot so that was also very great casting lucky casting yeah very fortunate yeah um what was missing okay so I felt what was missing in terms of stories around recovery and healing in terms of ptst and Trauma especially for like young women's narratives um anything thing that fell outside very like patriarchal male narrative arcs of healing like I feel like so much of what we saw especially coming out of the me too movement was like your healing hinges on Revenge or retribution or even Justice which is like a slightly gentler version of those story lines um that like when you win then that's when recovery happens and that's the end of the story and I just knew that wasn't true and um um it didn't feel authentic to my personal experiences or the personal experiences of like the women I know and love and I just was like I think there's like a more nuanced conversation to have about how complicated and sort of cyclical and up and down recovery actually looks so that was you did it well thank you you did it tried um I know that this movie took so long to make and I know that it took a lot and I am uh it took a lot of my hair it took a lot of your life it took a lot of your hair snapped off at the roots you know you broke your ankle during the filming of it um connecting the dots of how you got to this moment right now were there some standout moments that looking back you you want to talk about in terms of the process of making the movie sure yeah so I started writing it in 2013 again it was like born out of of a personal sort of want to explore these themes that are relevant to my life and my family um and so the standout moment I think was like when I realized what I was writing and that I wanted also though early on in writing the script I decided to make the character a standup comedian because I really wanted to speak to the loss we experience societally and culturally also interpersonally but in a broader sense culturally when like young women's joy and humor is like stripped away from them when something like this happens so I really was like that's so important to me personally like I've seen the humor drain out of so many people that I love um and we don't talk about that being like a major loss like for us as humans um and and then so I was I remember being like Oh but I think I I need to do that visually like I think she needs to be a standup in order to make that like a very clear representation of that sort of concept so that was like a standout moment and then the first time anyone said yes was in because I tried to get the film made when I mean the script was bad in 2013 like it needed work but um but I you know I was like working on a bunch of other stuff starting my career over those years and then in like 2017 2018 our our film's producer James Wayman he like read the script in Canada in Toronto and he was like I think I think we could make this like within the Canadian funding system like can I option this and I was like what yeah sure um so that was another standout moment just like the first person saying yes and then we were supposed to be able to go in 2020 but then Co happened I made it all about me I went I went it only affected my film um and then but it was actually a blessing because I wouldn't have known about Rachel at that point if we had had to go in 2020 so then I saw Shiva baby I had known of Rachel's standup I had been a fan of her standup for many years but I didn't know what like what a great actress she was until I saw Shiva in in during the pandemic and so another standout moment was we sent Rachel the script and she like like said yes within like 24 hours or something like that like she read it and was just like I get this I know this like I love this and we had this Zoom where we were immediately like crying and laughing and talking about like depression snacks and like you know the scene where she was like microwaving baloney like we were like talking about our depression snacks and so um so yeah it was that and then I mean you know all the weird little moments on set that make something worth it when you're like I'm going to die yeah yeah and then uh and then I think our Premiere at South by was like really special um it was the first time I had ever seen anything that I had fully written and directed like in front of an audience like that and that was really really terrifying yeah and cool yeah but terrifying and cool is the best place to live kind of and that's the artist way vibrate between terrifying and cool yeah um in writing a script yes I feel like everyone has a different way in yeah and I'm not making this about me but for me yeah ideas can come from songs they can come from a dream they can come from visualizing a conversation between two characters and then suddenly you kind of pull that thread and an idea starts to unra not unravel but kind of form yeah the script is so beautifully written by the way thank you that means a lot coming from you I start crying we can't continue really it's a really skillful beautiful special script thank you where was there was there a moment was there what started the The Script what what was the beginning of that so it was like the start of the script was really this idea of this relationship being really Challen challenge between these two young women like this I've I really really wanted to speak to this archetype of like the cool older sister or like the cool older girl like growing up I think we as young women all had that like either she was like a camp counselor or a babysitter or like your cousin's friend from Jersey or like you know like just or your like boyfriend's big sister like there was this young woman who felt like she was giving you this like secret knowledge to the world and I just I had been on both sides of that relationship um and it was such a important relationship that helped me through so much turmoil as like a young woman and I just remember being like I wanted to like write I just started like writing about this friendship between these two young women um and like what I realized with that AR type that I was writing to so it came from there of like just like wanting to capture this really beautiful friendship and and then looking at how sad it is that trauma doesn't just like affect one person obviously like we know this but like the lateral spread of it like interpersonally how many different relationships it can affect but then also intergenerationally how many like generations and Rel relationships that can affect maternally and but yeah just like young women give each other the keys and little warnings and little road maps and so yeah trauma affects all of those trickle down sort of eon economics of girlhood maybe is like an interesting way to say it and and so I just wanted to really challenge that relationship and that Bond so that's like that's where it started really with those two yeah and then on a slightly more cosmetic level when it comes to writing the script yeah choosing standup comedy is uh I wouldn't do it because it means you have to write the standup comedy uh so how did you go about approaching because it feels legit I mean I don't I like standup but I'm not around it a lot it felt very legit to me I was laughing at the jokes you enjoy it when it's really good yeah yeah like yeah yeah so I know that you have a lot of funny friends you have a lot of friends in comedy did you turn to them to like authenticate that experience or how did how did you tackle the standup of it all yeah so well I like when I first moved to Toronto from Alberta my first roommate was like an improviser and performed at comedy bar so like where we shot was really where I came up all of my friends were comedians they were all standups or Improv visors or sketch comedians I just like fell into that Community when I first moved to Toronto and I was at comedy bar like so many times a week I know I gave you so much credit for that well yeah honestly I was like no it can be fun it can be fun watching amateur impr I saw a couple shows there that were not fun I'm like come with me Dan um but I like I really started like casting all of my stuff whether it was like a dramatic short film or a music video or whatever that I was doing at the time in Toronto from that Community um and so these people were just like my friends and the people that I knew and I've obviously worked with a lot of comedians in different capacities whether as like co-writers like we've obviously hired lots of standups like in the writers rooms we've done together and like or just through casting but OB like Rachel is herself a very skilled standup I I I remember us having that conversation when you were looking yeah I was like I think I need someone who like does it and you were like yeah girl you probably do you don't want to risk that but yeah I'd seen her standup like well before I knew of her as an actress I knew of her as a standup and I loved her standup and it was so like Bold and The Audacity Of her and like how she Embraces her own sexuality and like uses it against people like she's so brilliant and smart and I loved that um so when I wrote the standup in the film I always had written it as like this is I'm not I'm not Ain zorin like I'm not like you can't move a letter or a word like I was like very much like this needs to be a malleable placeholder stand up or not anytime I'm casting anyone who's comedic in something I really do like to embrace their specificity of voice like I like to embrace their Cadence and their intonation and like how they look at the world and how they speak and and so the standup was no different so thematically I wrote it um but I very much like Rachel came in and we workshopped those sets that I had written for her and she she made them so much better and she added buttons and she like changed the wording of things to maybe make it like more relevant to her personally um and then she actually while we were in prep like doing like fittings and rehearsals in Toronto before we went to camera she like went to Comedy bar and she performed the sets of Sam's from the script to like test them out as actual like standup to make sure that they like worked in front of an audience and as written originally they didn't always work like we did then take the things we learned from her taking that material up at comedy bar and we tweaked it to be like what you actually see in the film and then like also I just was I I cast really funny standup comedians you know like so like Caleb and Sabrina I literally was like can you just donate some of your jokes that you're not going to put in anything and like say them on stage and they were like yes of course so I got very lucky in that regard too well I want to get into casting cuz it's such a special cast and it feels so um lived in in a way that you rarely get to see um I feel like there was this there was such I feel like you gave Rachel such a gift and she gave you such a gift and there was such a closeness between the two of you as you work together through this because your script I I feel gave Rachel an opportunity to be seen in a light that she's not often seen in and perform outside of the boundaries that she's often sort of contained within and conversely she was able to bring to life a central figure in your film that was so crucial to everything yeah so I know we touched on it but what was that process like was there anything else you want to share about working with her in those moments because you you went through great comedy but then you also had to be there for her through moments of extreme vulnerability and oh it was tough like she did like the great gift of Rachel Senate is that she makes everything look equally effortless and like I think what people get wrong about the comedic roles that she's been in is like because she is so naturally funny like obviously conversationally you know this too and like just in her own life I think they go well like oh that's just her and she doesn't have to act like she's just that funny and it's like it is true she is that funny but like she's doing something very technical and so obviously I think in this film people will like recognize maybe the technicality of what she's doing because she has to be more dramatic but she like makes it all look equally effortless like she's really prepared she's really smart she's like approaching it like a fighter pilot you know but then really feels like you're just like sitting in a room with someone having a conversation when you're directing her um I think I think the thing that I like could bring to her was like yeah the safety to go to some of those places like not that she hasn't had that before but like it was really like we can go here we trust each other understanding this in the same way we trust like our personal connection to this and like we're here for each other so I feel like it was about just like yeah like letting her know that I was never going to let it be too melodramatic or too sacran like I think that would be this the scary thing as an actor doing something like that and I think she trusted my tone and then something like the greatest gift that she gave me um was I think on the page Sam read a little bit harsher like had a harder Edge to her and then Rachel just is so fucking sweet like you literally like are like you look at her and you're like I I just want to like protect you like you are an angel and she is just like so Earnest and so sweet and and that just like bursts forth from her and she really put that in the character and I think the character really needed that element um cuz we I think that's a like you know like casting is such a a confusing and oftentimes like Fe very fearful experience because until you find the person you're like you're fucked you're fuck you're fucked you are completely screwed and it's a panic because you're thinking gosh well I've written something and in my head this person exists but where are they but then also like what's so incredible is when an actor can come in and and teach you something new about a character that's the dream that's it that's when the magic happens and like that happened with Rachel where I was like oh she's like she's very like hyper feminine and like sweet and I was like I had pictured the character just a bit harsher and then I was like and then when I really think about who the character is and who she represents I'm like oh my God how did I not see that before like that's exactly who this person is and so letting yourself be surprised by by casting is I think the greatest gift you can give yourself is like not being too stringent and then we got and then the same thing happened with Olga who plays Brooke like who's incredible who we had spoken about when I love this Ally told me what the concept of the movie was long before the movie was made and she was like you know it's a convers it's like a it's it's a a rumination on like generational differences and and I sort of took in the story and really responded to it but then sort of said so so then you need to find a child actor he goes so it all hinges on sort of a good child actor so you're going to need to find a child actor that is a terrifying Prospect and I went thank you for and then you did and then we found Olga and that was like that thing of like okay we had Sam like we had Rachel we had our Sam and and I was like who though is going to match how like effervescent and effortless and specific and singular Senate is she's so natural and like and actually one of my producers uh Jason is in the audience right now and and he was there with me for the search we like we had to cast Olga or we had to cast Brooke as a Canadian cuz uh we shot in Canada and we we had to have a majority Canadian cast so we were limited to to finding this character in Canada we looked at every teen actress in Canada and and we and we saw Olga's tape and she said that line that she says in that final scene because that was the scene she auditioned with in the motel room and I remember we just like looked at each other and we were like oh my God we can make the movie like we we found her we can make the movie but she was so different than what she we thought she would be she was not what I pictured would be she was also 18 ft taller than Rachel we were like how are we going to sell I know but it plays into the dynamic so nicely yeah I think it's so great when you're putting something together and you know that there are certain tent pole elements that need to fall into place in order to ensure not necessarily greatness but that you will have the per you will have the ingredients to make the thing yes to have a film at all and that was an incredible thing oh she was a major Temple and then they chemistry read together Olga and Rachel and it was just this beautiful thing of like Olga obviously like looking up to Rachel and like thinking she was so great and like and then but also like conversely like all of us being like Olga is the coolest person we've ever met and on set like all the whole time we were shooting the film we were like do you think Olga will think this is cool like and Rachel felt that way too like she was like God fuck Olga's so cool and like in their chemistry read you could feel that thing too of like yeah and Rachel was just like she reminds me of my little sister and it just felt very natural between them so that was when we were like okay if everything else goes to shit we can just film these two like on an iPhone in a motel room and it'll be fun that would have been very experimental and I would have been into it thank you um I have two more questions before we wrap up the look of the film was so specific like the way that lighting plays a part in the storytelling at for most of the movie The Lighting is quite violent in a way and it feels quite specific it feels like it's very considered the way that the film is lit and shot so was it no it was an accident like what was the conversation with your DP like and how did it land in in such a stylized way so our DP Nina is incredible we had so many conversations we obviously were talking about PTSD I think like again in pop culture we see fight or flight d uh depicted quite often but we rarely see like the freeze trauma response depicted and so we really wanted to make like the two distinct timelines in the film like subtly different and so we did that in a few different ways where Sam's present is is a bit Frozen so the the frames themselves are like still like there's not really movement to the camera and when it is in the present it's very like trepidacious and slow and then also Sam is very like isolated in her frame she's not in frames with other characters she's like her singles are not like dirtied by other characters and and she's not like really touched by light like in the present she's very sort of cut off from like different colors don't really play on her if they do like you're saying they feel very like violent and like they're drowning her um and so and then in the past there was like she was very much in her world so she was like in Sharing frames with other characters there was like a movement to the camera there was like a handheld quality that added like like a life to to when she was with Brooke and with her friends and with Noah and then the same thing there was like more color in the light and it touched her like it interacted with her it was like gentle with her and so like all of these things yes were very purposeful because we also did really have to cuz we're not doing anything with like Graphics being like this is this year and this is this day and we're going to the past now and now we're going to the present so we had to try and F figure out like a visual language that could cue the audience to like now we're post the bad thing or now we're pre the bad thing yeah that is a lot to take on in a 19-day shoot yeah it was really hard Jason saw me crying in Porta that is a lot to take on in a 19-day shoot um my last question is I know that you made this movie for your mom so has she seen it she did see it she only saw it like a month ago what was that experience like oh well we don't talk a lot about it and I it screened for National Canadian film day um so it pre-screened before it came out in theaters in like smaller towns like across Canada where it wouldn't be like getting a wide release and one of those towns was like where I grew up and so I went back for the screening there and she didn't know what to expect I mean I like I kind of gave her a bit of a heads up and then we were all out in the lobby after and I was like with a bunch of my like old friends and like my family and and and people and it was very like bustling and and she just sort of like like looked at me and was like thank you like really quiet and I was like oh no um so that was sort of all I needed so you know any inell on letter box that doesn't like it can't really hold a candle to that experience yeah well I say thank you as well for making this beautiful film and for talking to us all tonight I mean thank you for doing this this has been so lovely a pleasure thank you and thanks everyone for coming and watching it thank you everyone we appreciate it thank you [Music]