Your Mom & Dad: Jenn’s Bachelorette Recap - FANTASY SUITES (He Loves Her & She Loves the Other Him)

Jesse Palmer has taken over [Music] your mom and [Music] dad your mom and dad your mom and [Music] dad your mom and [Music] dad well welcome home family it's your mom and dad it's your mother and father good morning and family today we are talking fantasy sweet episodes and here's the bottom line after watching that episode felt like I walked away with just a million questions I was like is he going to leave is he ever going to fall in love is she going to start to like the one guy is she going to stay in love with this guy I mean I I just I'm very confused weird energy very weird the energy is pulsating weird on this episod it's a bizarre episode but there was one there was one thing we had one question answered truly yes and that answer is this Jesse Palmer loves golf loves golf our King I like how you're clapping because he is our King you know why because for many like I mean I would say almost like two years you and I have made guesses and assumptions that when Jesse Palmer is gone 99.9 99% of the time we're like well he's just at the hotel's golf course he's just out there playing golf it's weird he we haven't seen him and then he we see him for 10 seconds we him in days but yet we see him for two it's like oh he's definitely golfing and this episode what it gave to us was a kernal an answer of wisdom of truth that Jesse Palmer indeed is always out there playing golf yes so for this episode you know normally fantasy sweet episodes we we dress up you know maybe put on something kind of comfy cozy maybe put on something a little sexy sexy in honor of fantasy sweet but this episode felt less like what Zack shellcross would refer to as scx week and it felt more like GF week wow well done babe well done we in our golf GE I'm wearing wearing of golf clothing just in honor of the king because I just had to take a moment to celebrate the king because the king the energy of Jesse Palmer was very much giving um I'm going to do whatever the hell I and if want to come and to me they can meet me at my tea time like this man this season is like I want to go have my special coffee I want to go have my special restaurant food at the specific place I want to go to and talk about my experience on talking about my experience and I want to golf and if you want your contestants to get a little bit of advice and one-on-one for me then run out there with a camera give them a golf shirt and like they can join me as I hit a couple balls before my 18 round I feel like this franchise turning into a reality show about him kind of an interesting like there's always a side thing about him you know what I mean like this season specifically yeah it's a lot of like who is Jesse is the subc context behind everything something there is an underlying pulse of Jesse this season what's interesting is that most hosts for any show you know very little about unless you knew know about them you know what I mean it's one of those things unless you Google or whatever it's like it's generally they come on do a job they leave sometimes in Like Love is Blind they overshare their own you know marital I mean or like what's the one perfect match we get to know Nick a little more you know he a good time guy yeah he's a good time guy but again it's usually there for the job what's different this time is that he's he's somehow managed to just tell production I'm going to be here you can meet me if you'd like to work and I'm so jealous because all the things he does eat drink coffee you know I'm not a big Bigfoot guy but I'm probably it's a good hang and then ultimately Golf and not only golf but like golf overlooking the ocean in gorgeous weather yeah so he's literally just like and he's also separated it perfectly into like when I'm on the Range you can bring a guy out when I'm golfing you can bring a guy out and you just let me know I'll be at this place at dinner if you'd like to do something over here like I'm a huge fan of whatever he's been able to negotiate here cuz he's living my dream which is to work very little in golf mostly yeah yeah I'm I feel like what I'm sensing is for the finale episode that all of a sudden we're going to see the men meeting up with him like the final two men meeting up with him at the spa he's like I'm getting a massage and if they want to come in and stand next to me while I'm getting one then I'll talk to them with the cumbers on my eyes sure a little sauna time sure but like this is already he's booked his assistant has booked his tea times his sauna days his spa days would be if the menel all is more just like at a good bar with his friends and they're like we're all here at my friend's bar here in Downtown LA and you guys are we're excited to have you here I'm going to go play darts with my three buddies from college and you guys discuss the drama between Sam M and Devon and you know say remember was that Joey season where they went to the bar where they had Jesse's photo yes we're going to be at that bar that's what I'm saying they're filming the mental in Canada at this point at this point he's either going to do that or he's going to zoom in I just found it to be really iconic so I wanted to talk about it I just found his energy him putting out into the universe that he was just like Daddy wants to do what daddy wants to do and so the boys can come to Daddy when he's doing what he wants to do well and it's funny too because I even noticed you know when he was golfing yeah that there was a little bit of like do we have to talk too much because did he see like a little annoyed a little a little like I'm trying to get my warm-up in at the range and you keep bringing up your feelings and I didn't ask you could tell he was a little bit like I would rather not talk about this and rather just get to the golfing did Jesse have a good swing as a golfer yes he actually did all the guys had a horrible swing really all them did well I don't know about Jonathan I didn't see has but we definitely know that he met up with Jonathan and did a couple holes and we just didn't see it that was the only time that Jonathan would have been able to see Jesse yes marus got the uh the range Devin got the front nine Jonathan got the back nine you know and he even stipulated in his contract one hole I don't want to deal with these guys the whole time I'm golfing for real these guys are going to Slow Me Down single hole one you know but yeah even like Jesse made like a kind of a dig at at Devon and he was like yeah you know this two ricochets in a row it's pretty good like Ric being like you hit it into the Brocks and then somehow like jumped back onto the course so but no he looks great I think Jesse knows how to actually play well when you're playing all year round during your job you're bound to get pretty good if you would like to see a video of me and Jesse playing one-on-one please petition that cuz that would be iconic no literally don't even joke about it do you think the way that we could get Jesse Palmer on this podcast is if we agreed to meet up and you guys play golf and I could just what if we make it like a walking the camera more like an interview we have like little lapels we walk with him as we play golf and interview him I think of all the things he would say yes to that would be very much one of them I feel like you would love it but I just wonder if we'd get any answers out of him because be so be mostly about golf so I'd have to ask him kind of like well who's your favorite pro golfer and like you know what's your favorite course and then he'd be really into it but I think if I actually interviewed him about the show he's like don't you realize i' barely work this is not why I'm here any who God I love you Jesse I just again Host Island would love to do a collab with Jesse but more than anything would love to see a collab between him and Nicolet that's all I really want I mean that's the ultimate we saw Jesse in his favorite atmosphere just like how we had seen Nick in his favorite atmosphere and I feel like it did give us different energy and I feel like you put them both together in like a gorgeous tropical location with golfing and Walberg could join ohk maybe it's just called the host the host host Island host Island and all it is is married guys golf and and it's a lot of innuendo about like how tired they are it's a lot it's a lot of innuendo about like no no life great that's it's just it's really nice to have a little bit of time away that's what the whole show is episode two you know what I mean it's just there nothing but just like it's just really good to connect or will you be attending I will absolutely be attending I will be hosting oh oh yeah who's going to host host Island oh can you imagine the drama who's going to host host Island they all think they're the best host it would just be a full host off and I would not threaten them at all because I'm not a host so it's perfect every host loves to golf yeah because that's their job I love you all but it's like their job is to literally go to Exotic incredible places wait to get a call but they're like got eight hours to wait so they're like I guess we'll golf in this incredible younot dare say that about Mark Wahlberg because Mark Wahlberg puts in hours in time like nobody else's business it's not even about he get maybe some golfin I'm sure we love we love Mark to death but he definitely gets some golf he get in some round 100 % 100% well tune in to host Island host Island hosted by me 2025 yeah um but family we're here to talk about actually FYI, Fam! the fantasy sweet episode like Evan said that had a very weird energy to it I'm not going to lie to you definitely didn't leave you feeling like warm and cozy left your feeling just like left me feeling anxious and stressed and it also left us by the way on a cliffhanger where Devon is knocking on Jen's door about to have this like intense conversation with her where he says he's going to open up his heart and he's going to ask her the questions that he's wanted to ask her during their fantasy sweet date so we don't know what's going to happen but I will tell you this this episode if you're watching or listening you might be watching on Wednesday which means that the mental all has already come out which means you probably have already seen what we're going to be theorizing about to a certain extent so if we're off it's because we have just simply watched the fantasy suet episode and then tune in on Friday because on Friday we will be covering the menel all which will include it looks like maybe the wrap up of the fantasy suite episode um but I did see a preview at the end to the Fantasy suweet episode about the men tell all in which we saw some serious drama going down looks like Jen is telling off Sam looks like Aaron is coming for Spencer which is so bizarre like where did that come from you always start to see some weird stuff because you know there's they don't show everything so and then obviously not everything's on camera could just be like while they're like chilling they're like start getting it so you always start to see some weird you always what I always find is you see weird teams form you're like who's he again and he's like really angry at this guy also everyone knows now that Bachelor in Paradise is going to be airing again so it's up for grbs they're like so they're like I got to have my moment but most importantly we saw Thomas and um Sam n going at it and Sam n is wearing his leather jacket he's got the Lea Jack it's a brand at this point Sam I hope that that is obviously it is a brand for you but I hope it's also a little bit of an contest because you know we just loved it so much so the fact that you're coming out in that leather jacket that you claim as denim is to me top tier all the other men are in their suits and he is sitting there in his leather jacket and I am thrilled the fact that he's starting a company called denim leather is one of my most favorite things ever but let's get into this episode let's get into this episode family but first we got to take a quick pause um like you all know we're getting into fantasy Sweet Week you know romance and I have to tell you all a while ago I pulled the ultimate romantic move I actually pulled out my cell phone Evan and I had a a beautiful Feast of fast food and I pulled out myself and I downloaded one of those fireplace apps so that I could put my phone out and we could sit in E our fast food in front of a roaring fireplace app and I thought that was very romantic yeah like what is happening right now so cute see so Demir so mindful so romantic um but a few months after I realized that I was still paying monthly for this fake fireplace app which I I did not need I love you in the romance but I didn't need to do that again because he wasn't super impressed bottom line and do you know who let me know I was still paying for this and then cancelled it for me obviously I'm talking about our savior rocket money God I love rocket money so much they've saved me so much money and time over the last few years rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings yeah it really has saved us time and money and not just us Americans think they spend about $62 per month on subscriptions but get this the real number is closer to 300 with rocket money I have full control over my subscriptions and a clear view of my expenses I can see all my subscriptions in one place and if I see anything I don't want rocket money can help me cancel it with just a few Taps also I love how the dashboard shows me this month's spending compared to last month's uh so I can clearly see my spending habit plus they'll help me create a custom budget keeping my spending right on track and check this out rocket money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you by up to 20% I find that to be so incredible all you have to do is submit a picture of your bill and Rocket money takes care of the rest I don't even know at this point what I would do without rocket money I I've become so reliant on them they are so incredible rocket money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 m million in canceled subscriptions take that in 500 million in canceled subscriptions saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the apps features that's me I'm one of those people okay stop wasting money on things you don't use cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to Rocket money.com momad that's rocket money.com momad rocket money.com momdad okay okay wait oh before we officially dive into this recap I just wanted to make a quick side note that family um please keep updated I'll be posting some Instagram stories about it in the upcoming weeks but our schedule like the drop dates of episodes is going to be a little bit different so obviously we saw that Jen's uh finale is going to be on a Tuesday so next week our finale episode will be coming out on Thursday and then we have a fun Friday episode for you um and then the following week we're going to start getting into cast bios but then after that we have uh the golden Bachelorette and those episodes drop on Wednesday so our episodes will be coming Friday so our main episodes will be on Friday and likely we'll be having other episodes drop every other Wednesday while that goes but we'll keep you all updated so just stay tuned just wanted to let you know that the dates of drops might EB and flow a little bit because of the dates and drops of these um these episodes or of these uh these Bachelor Bachelorette episodes stay AB breast stay a breast is that what it is yeah oh I've never used that I'm really excited to be here Stay Stay AED um okay so yes Fantasy Suite recap officially starts let's Okay but before Devon they go to the island of Hawaii okay and they are staying at the Fairmont Orchid and I just wanted to say very nice for once this show really spared no expense before it was like definitely not the Fairmont the whole season and this I mean clearly they were traveling so they were spending money but the Fairmont I feel like Fairmont is like the level of like Ritz Carl that's what I'm going to say that feels PR I feel like maybe I'm wrong but I feel like those rooms can be like you know a night it looked very nice yeah very fancy f m i mean I was very jealous I know you were screaming I was just like I want to be there well Jen is joined up the top up at the top of this episode by mol oh yeah who we saw during the um Infamous radio date with Sam and when she asked who's left I'm like I wonder if they told her the final three guys if she was like if Sam is here I swear to God would have been iconic it's interesting though that they had they brought her back to me I thought that was kind of cool yeah because I feel like typically if they bring on you know a an EXC contestant on the show or Bachelor Bachelorette it can kind of feel random but I did feel like it was nice to have Molly because she had actually met a lot of the men previously and had conversations with them so like right person it was more of a catchup than a and here's another random lead or whatever you know also sick that you get to go to Hoy I know always like I'm down you kind of went from like radio station with what was what were their name like cornhole and dubious or something and whatever their names were dubis and and glunder uh at in Seattle and then they get to fly to Hawaii and have an amazing trip cuz let's be real they probably got a weak trip out of that and it was just 30 minutes ho and dubious yeah it was demure and and mindful were the two radio hosts and uh you know and then they get to go to Hawaii so I'm very happy for her and I hope that she got some just alone time and some Vibes and I hope that she said sorry everybody I'm going to Hawaii you can figure it out I'm golfing with Jessie um but wanted to note that she specifically said something about Jonathan yes that was interesting she seems to like Jonathan she's like I could tell right away that Jonathan really listens to you he is present he is there for you and I want to get into Jonathan later because I just have very positive feelings about them and their potential future together um but one thing that Jen then got into Devin & their Fantasy Suite is the Devon of it all of which she said that Devon has declared his love for her he told her that he's in love with her and that she feels like she's trying to get there but but she thinks that it's hard for her to accept everything that Devon's doing because he's doing all the right things and then she she even said she's like why yes which brings me to a question mhm and maybe this is like dumb but like is that a real thing in general or is that people searching their souls to figure out why they aren't attracted or into someone when on paper they look great you know what I'm saying like and then you start to kind of come up with these Concepts like I don't you know I don't know how to accept it and like because it it'd be one thing if it was like oh I can't fall in love with anybody right but if you're like falling in love with other people yeah and then someone else is showing you really good attention or really good whatever or like the things you feel like you need and then you can't accept them is is that like you know what I means you over complicate it by trying to say things like oh I don't know if I can accept it I don't know if I can let it in and all this stuff or is it just simply like like I don't know why I'm not that maybe attracted to this person or we don't have sexual chemistry and you know what I'm saying like that's what it feels like to me it feels like over complicating what is simply I don't know what it is about Devon but I can't tell you what's wrong with him I can just tell you my body doesn't react to his presence that's a really interesting question I'd be interested to hear the family's take on that like the idea of is there these moments where you're like they're doing all the right thing and I can't accept it because I can't accept someone doing all the right things I'm not used to because I would I would imagine though that that can be the case in situations like where Jen dealt with a lot of trauma growing up so there maybe is that block where it's like I've never I had all this trauma growing up and then I also have these ex-boyfriends and I tend to date these guys who don't treat me correctly or treat me well at all and so you know maybe there's that block there where it's like when someone is doing all the right things but I do hear what you're saying because my consistent question through the entire segment of Jen and Devon was is she really feeling like he's too good to be true or does she just not like does she like him but not in that way I mean that's what I think I think I feel like too good to be true like listen Devon is giving her a lot of what she paper once right which is like full commitment you know like I'll get into it but you know he was he was he was given her everything that in love with her you know what I mean there's no question about he's madly in love with her he is all in all the way and she's going like I can't figure out what it's like it's like I think it's just we' felt this way since day one which is like she loves his personality and I just think there isn't that much physical chemistry there interesting I think it's I think it's simply that and I think certain people physical chemistry is more important to than other people yeah like I think certain people are like it has to be a major port and then some people like yeah it matters but like you know I think I've mentioned this before like you know that they can grow on me and and it seems like she's a little bit more like we got to have the raw connection first and then we can build on it yeah the fact that she's going with the guys that she's going with and even Sam in the beginning it's like almost no conversational chemistry but the but the physical was so strong that it got him through a lot so I think she's someone that needs that like a raw sexual physical chemistry and then everything else can be on top but I think if that's not there she's having a really hard time reconciling that that's my personal op that's my that's the vibe I'm getting I feel like when I was watching and we'll then get into the details of it but I felt like I when I was watching from the top of her and Devon's time together even through to when they especially when they woke up in the morning even though she was saying like it made her feel more confident in them I feel like she's gotten the ick about something there is a there is an ick Factor going on to me I don't know maybe I'm reading it wrong but the way sometimes that she like is looking at him I'm like is something about him she kind of closing her eyes like like like if I just make out with him hard I think I can get past whatever there's something about him like you know when you and and it sucks cuz it's like sometimes you know you can't help it and you just get the ick and the person is doing nothing wrong no it's just it has nothing to do with that person but it's like there's something about the way that person eats or the way that they speak or the way that they like move their mouth and then all of a sudden you're locked in on that I don't know what it is but she's giving off she's radiating energy to me about there's something about Devon's energy that she has gotten the ick and she's trying to push through it because she's like I really love being with him I love spending time with him he's a great chat a great and he clearly is over the moon and giving me everything I've technically asked for but I'm going to try to push through it because I have this I and I don't know what like that's the vibe that I'm getting she knows that he's giving her everything she wants but then she's got this ick factor and she's battling it's a palpable ick too yeah like I can sense it you can sense it too because when you see on the Marcus date yeah she's literally like leaning into him petting him same thing with Jonathan too I feel like her when you saw the difference between her and Devon together versus then her and Jonathan there was an there was a difference in her energy when Devon was saying all the things on this date she just would kind of go mhm I mean he's showering her with like extreme romance like the perfect words support you know he's just being so like Oozy and you see her just being like totally and it's just like waa it's interesting when that happens you can't really it's like it's palpable it's obvious that there is even a goodbye at the end where he's like I love you and and she's like okay bye she okay and she was okay by that's like a panic response she like ran away that's a panic response and listen you all know that I'm not a Devon fan but I cannot lie to you this specific episode I was sweating for him even though I'm not a Devon fan I was sweating for him because if I was in his circumstance where clearly last episode you know he was on the fence about certain things maybe you have the same I she does and you guys don't even what it is what it is but there's just an I don't know what it is but it's like yeah I I'm yeah I'm not I'm not a fan but in this episode I was I was like drenched and sweat watching it for him because last episode it felt like you know he was on the fence about certain things and again he almost he almost pulled the plug and left when her ex showed up so I was like question mark about that I'm like I don't know man and I still think and we'll talk about it there's a lot of there is immaturity in the way that it's like I'm going to tell her that I'll wait for her but I need her to say this to me immediately there's that but I got I cannot lie if I was in his situation and declaring my love for someone the way that he was declaring his love for her and consistently and giving everything the way he was giving it and I got the mhm responses and the okay by I would be absolutely spiraling and I did feel for him I would be absolutely spiraling well can we start with the helicopter ride Evan a hel Evan how how many how number four I need to ask you how the the first thing they do in Hawaii is the now granted in Hawaii everyone knows about the helicopter R the helicopter rides in Hawaii it's like you what you're looking at the the Glorious waterfalls the landscape is unbelievable so it's a different energy but still there are so many other things and they make this woman get in a helicopter again I think there's been seven Sky dates well clearly Expos therapy and uh it seems to be rubbing off it seems to the fact that she's like fine now you know I mean no it's true but honestly before before the season started Jen's therapist was like producers I want you to try something for her she needs this we need to try something different Keeper in the sky 247 but but something happened on that date which is one of the most brutal things of what okay I need to okay I'm so sorry to interrupt you but you and I watched this separately and if it's what of course it is what it is of of course whatever I had a moment okay it's what duh are you kidding me if you're if you don't get this right I'd be like are we even married okay go ahead go ahead first of all they have like a microphone which is really weird you notice that they share yeah like the share like he's like babe you look so hot and she has like grabb the microphone and be like thanks like it's very weird to share a microphone like so strange try to podcast with one microphone to be like isn't that crazy and then like hands it over to see what you say so that was already kind of weird but so they're cruising over it's gorgeous whatever whatever but nothing to be honest with you if what happened what am I about to talk about happened to me I would open up the door and just and just and just jump out he goes the ocean is like so blue and she goes which is crazy she did this because it's it's it's she hit on him yes so he didn't hit on her no he was just like the ocean so blue it'd be one thing if like he's trying to win her over cuz he likes her so much sheir with him and then he [ __ ] up the flirt she who doesn't love him and it clearly has an ick flirts with him by saying almost as blue as your eyes uhhuh and then he goes I don't have blue eyes and then she goes oh yeah you don't I mean that is brutal for her but out ofbody brutal for him that is one of those moments where for him it's like that is soul crushing it's like what do I do with my hands like what am I supposed to do now like I don't know how to respond and this is where I give him his flowers yeah this happened figuratively like six times during this date where it was like heart on the floor heart out in his hands crushed yeah and he kept coming listen as much as I'm as much as I'm not a fan I I've had to give him his flowers numerous times through the season the way that he hand handled Aaron the way that he's handled certain conflict he keeps it together I would have shut down no after number one maybe number two he pushed through number like seven of them there were so many moments in this episode where he would just like put his heart out there on a literal platter and she goes mhm and he just kept going and you could see it on his face go I got to say the GU a fighter I mean the guy is not he's Rocky he's Rocky Balboa it's knock him down he keeps getting back up now I will say a part of it is like hey man learn from the first one or two yeah don't keep going back to the well thinking that you're going to get a result like sometimes you just got to like put it out there you put it out there during the hometowns maybe we just let it I get but I get why he keeps putting it out there to be fair because she keeps she keeps saying that that's what she wants that's true so when she's asking for it and he did it later in the date too where at one point after the helicopter ride and they hit like they like came to the waterfall and they were sitting and having champagne afterwards he literally said to her he was like I love you and I know exactly why I love you I can tell you why and he listed it off and she's had certain conversations where when she had approached the men about her fears it was like I don't know if you guys can see past my boundaries and even there was moments where we heard Jonathan say I don't want to say I love you because I don't know if I'd be able to tell you exactly what about you Devin did specifically say he's like not only I'm going to tell you I love you I'm going to give you specific reason why and then also Jen's concern has been is someone ready at the end of this and he said left right and sideways I want see you as my fiance I want to get married to you I want to have kids I want to be you know extraordinary people living a normal life because I didn't get normal and that seems extraordinary I mean like he he did he said everything that she wanted to hear which is why like you're saying after one or two misses I get why he kept pushing because he is like you're saying it's Rocky energy where he's like keep fighting until the and they keep going right oh no no then she followed up even even gnarlier with I know this is a good thing and I want to let you know I'm trying I know now honestly that sounds like in a movie when the lead cheats yeah and and and and the and the person who got cheated on is like I know we have a family and I'm going to try but I'm trying to get past the affair yeah that's what that sounds like well it was interesting to me because it was and he's just talking about liking him back and she's like I'm trying so hard to like him but it is really hard but it was a mirror because it's like she told him she was trying and Marcus told her I'm trying no that was wild it was weird it was like the three of them were the Spider-Man meme cuz it was literally like it was yeah she's going I'm really trying Devon and then Marcus is like I'm really trying Jen and then Jonathan's just off floating around somewhere why because it was a mirror that's why I truly believe raw connection beats everything on paper being right because it's like literally the guy who's doing everything you ever wanted yeah you're giving the same treat you're giving the the the Friendship treatment to yeah and the guy that you have a raw attraction to is giving you the same treatment yet you're following him around like a puppy dog it's like very interesting okay I have more thoughts but we have to say another quick thought it was so intense oh my gosh I no no I was Dripping I'm dripping right now just talking about it I'm like drenched and sweat um so family so some of these fantasy sweets have me wanting to see some of our contestants and lead on screen walk away sorry it's brutal but I feel like there's some situations where some walking away should be happening on this season okay and speaking of walking I'm a walker now I love it it helps my brain a bunch lots of walking helps it so much but problem is in my old shoes after all this walking my feet would be aching made me not want to walk the next day honestly but now my feet are singing with joy because I got Vionic walk Max sneakers Vionic walk Max sneakers for him and her for everyone baby they are perfect for all day wear staying active or your everyday go-to and this is the science Le design informed by biomechanics and when I tell you you can feel the science the moment you put them on your feet I have never had this happen before in my life with a pair of shoes where the second I put that pair of shoes on my feet I 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true I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop which I can I can understand that I can understand when you've been hurt a bunch that you're like I'm nervous about you because you seem too perfect on paper and so like what are you hiding type thing but that's not what's going on but that I don't think that's what's going on I don't think so I mean she's saying stuff like she said this I'm trying every day for you again that's the affair scene in a movie I'm trying not to remember what you did to me yeah if I'm too insecure unless her wrong because Evan I did not think she was interested in Marcus at all and I clearly was wrong about that so I'm maybe I'm reading her wrong but I feel the ick the only thing you could read wrong is like Jonathan because very little happened emotionally between them during that date you don't really know how they feel about each other there's just that energy where you're like is it just kind of whatever are they both just kind of cool there there there was there was a lot of energy Devon towards her there was lot of energy her towards Marcus but the Jonathan felt very vanilla it felt very like I don't know oh I disagree no I'm just saying like it felt very like okay there it is but for me the Devon was so obviously he started to feel it so he would kind of double triple down and then she would get feel it in the opposite way and kind of start to back up back up back up the more he pushed the more she pulled it was definitely like she was like too much too much from the wrong guy well this is where I felt like this is then when Devon might have made a mistake so Devon in that conversation when she's like I'm trying I'm trying he let her know he's like no worries I'm there as long as you need I'm there cut to 24 hours later he's like I need to know immediately which I don't blame him for because I would be spiraling too but when you do tell somebody hey I'll wait for you forever it's very romantic novel very guar like I'll wait I'll wait 500 years for you and so you're like okay maybe this guy's going to wait and wait and wait and she'll get engaged to somebody else but he's still there he'll always be there but 24 hours later he was like I need you to sign the check between do you like me do you love me yes or no check the box right now like I need it right now and I think that was the mistake that he made is like communicating like no it's all good take your time when he was like no I I I need you to communicate with me what you I think he was I think he was telling her what he felt like movie wise would be a good idea but I think deep down he knew that like that's not true cuz who says that to like some girl you've known for 4 weeks you know what I mean like you don't say that to someone you just met who you really have a big crush on and you maybe have you fallen in love with I wait for you forever also the way this show Works what's tough is in these Final in these final episodes you often times don't have a lead sharing that they love you so you know it is part of the show now granted she does tell Marcus that she's in love with him exact but I'm saying he doesn't know that so I'm saying the show in general it's it's it's a tough one because sometimes you can't hear right away you're right but he knows something's up sure you know what I mean it's not simply like I'm just someone who's not willing to move that fast he knows someone else is getting more than him yes that's what's making him lose his mind yeah and like he said he's like I've experienced in my life where I'm second or third exact and I can feel like I'm a one but not the one yes and that's exactly what you are sir that's what it feels like you are reading it correctly yeah that's what it feels like um but during the night portion uh it's just the same song and dance honestly at one point she says that this almost makes her want to run away because it feels so good to be true right and he says that he doesn't throw that he loves people around he's like I don't say that I want to call you my wife I want to call you my fiance and then she pauses like she's about to say Devon I love you too but she said I can't tell you how much you mean to me and and then she even addressed she's like I know I keep saying that over and over but it does mean something just so you know buddy buddy pal friend jar bear Dev dog Dev dog once you got hit with the dev dog just like jar bear did it's over I think that's maybe when the spiral began well they're given the fantasy sweet card from Jesse which by the way I would love like if game of roses or someone analyzed the handwriting over the seasons like does the handwriting match because obviously it's the inter I just think it would be funny to see just a lineup of all the different fantasy sweet notes signed by Jesse in all the different handwriting handwriting number four in Microsoft Word or something you know what me oh an intern does it you think it's actually written I don't even think it's that fancy that they're putting it in and like taking no I think that's it's just some random intern who's like all right will you accept this and here's some like massive Beauty and the Beast looking key instead of a key card it's a who's got the best writing go ahead do it kind of the second I saw that that key that big key that was given to what those called skeleton keys skeleton key as soon as I saw the skeleton key I was like if Evan was a contestant on this show he'd lose the key before he got to funny funny funny no j i I don't have one for you that's very true I would have lost the key from the table to the site you're like all excited to get in and you no I would get back no no I wouldn't lose the key I'd go I'd go to the ru with her and be like [ __ ] [ __ ] sorry and then I have to run back to the table ask if they found it someone threw away the away I'm digging through the trash or you go back to the fantasy suite you get the door open it locks behind you you have a robe on getting some ice and then you can't get in and she's falling asleep and you're pounding on the door and then you know correct apologies in my underwear yes this is but we love me you love me oh but they they're back in the fantasy suite and um you know they're sitting on the bed and they're doing some kissing but he's doing a lot of expressing his feelings for her and she's doing a lot of mhm mhm yeah she's definitely the quietest on this date talked way more with Jonathan and Marcus big time and let's be real I feel like I would have and I don't know if they did this during the but I feel like I would have asked her have you told anybody else you love them because I would have been like if you have then I know I'm screwed but if you've told no one I might have a chance yeah good point you know what I mean mhm and I feel like he didn't ask because the next morning he hugs her and kisses her and says love you and she hits him with the one two punch two letters okay which hey Jen prepare better know he's going to hit you with that and come up with something better than okay hit him with last night last night was amazing yeah oh can't wait to see you can't wait to see you soon but like I'll be thinking about you okay is when your dad texts you back and you go Dad I got into this University and he just goes okay you know how Boomers tated for forever yeah yeah she Boomer text his face thumbs up she like the next move would just would have been like a a visual thumbs up to his face well don't forget the moment where the next morning when they wake wake up that clearly this was inserted later M because you could tell by the sound quality it was kind of like it almost sound like she recorded on a phone and producers were like we need this clip to throw in here last minute we hear her say people say that Devon looks like Pete Davidson but after last night I'd say he's better than Pete Davidson in every way and I'm like oh producers why did you make her say that and this is brought to you by Pete Davidson new movie droing it was like almost an ad it's like what because clearly this was inserted later with her saying people say he looks like Pete Davidson yeah CU it's like wait you're in the middle of the show I guess unless he said to her yeah people always tell me I look like Pete Davidson I don't see that at all do you no not really I mean I a little bit his eyes maybe a little bit but her but she said that remember night one she was like oh like he's Pete Davidson Vibes and she likes Pete Davidson but for her to say people say he looks like Pete Davidson and and then throw in the the big dick energy comment because it's like Pete Davidson and well but he's better than Pete Davidson in everywh like oh my God yeah it was very weird it was like producers why did you it was like they were trying to squeeze something positive out of like a we a really weird vibe I think so they're like I might not love him but the guy's got a dick on him God that was basically what that said you know what I'm saying that's basically what was going on right there they're like all right Pete Davidson Zone you know what I mean it was like it was so random but that was really like that was the best of what came out with it with them like where she even at one point before she leaves she's like hey you know I feel like I deserve a good thing and I'm learning that and I hope that helps you get out of your head like she knows he's in his head so even if he hasn't asked her directly like she knows he's spiraling she can tell so she's like I'm learning that I deserve a good thing D D D D D um but then after she Devin at the bar & cliffhanger leaves i c can we just talk about what happened at the very end so we can just have a full Devon segment so after her dates then with Jonathan and with Marcus yeah we cut forward throughout by the way these dates we're seeing Devin wandering wandering the halls of the hotel wandering outside at the beach he's in the worst sandals of all time by the way he's got those like he's got those like double strap sandals oh no that I hate and not the cool like ones like just literally like ones that have like geckos on them you know what I mean so his shirt's very nice I like I love by the way big fan of his like waffle shirts he's got like waffle button down very nice the sandals atrocity so anyway we'll just continue on from there well towards the very end of the episode after he's wandering questioning tripping out spaling we see him at the bar yeah and I'm going to apologize in advance because this scene was actually like very sad because I understand he was struggling the feeling that he was struggling and and I was clear it's clear to me cuz I was back and forth and I always knew I always said throughout this whole season I was like he really likes her and after last week's episode I was like I don't know that comment that his mom made I don't know maybe he's being possessive I don't know I can still leave a question mark up to all those things but what it what seems clear to me at least in this episode is that he does really like her a lot and by a mile the most out of all these remaining men like not even close Okay so I'm like I got to give him that so I don't mean to laugh but the whole situation of this felt so like a Hallmark movie I couldn't get over it like the fact that they had him sit at a bar stirring a Jin and tonic and then Jesse comes up and he's asking him all these questions and the way that he's just like you know I don't sleep here I haven't slept in I don't sleep here was very poetic and for him to go like I just keep I'm giving and giving and she keeps growing for me and I'm withering away I'm like this was a Hallmark movie script that someone just like back to miss the small town guy it was all the were straight up I was like I don't mean to laugh but I could not this whole sequence this whole scene I was like is this for real right right right and the sleepless nights driving me wild I will said you know I don't sleep here it felt torturous I don't sleep here s it's not like a that line isn't I haven't slept no it's a written line yeah I don't sleep here right is from a novel I don't sleep here is like that line will haunt me for weeks got to say though that guy's crying real tear you know what I mean he's not crying he's not the difference though is I feel like he's not crying I feel bad for myself tears the vibe I'm getting is he's crying like I'm actually in love and it's not going to happen that's the energy I'm getting okay I don't I don't know 100% about that if I agree I'm just saying like the way he's crying is like pretty raw no no so these tears I believe and in past circumstances we've had men who you know are like I got to talk to the lead and I don't want to give them I feel bad for I don't want to give him an ultimatum but I'm going to show up and be like if you don't tell me this I'm leaving type thing and I think a lot of times the guys that do that are it's a little bit of a show yeah it's a little bit of a will I be a bachelor moment I don't get that from him no I do genuinely think now I don't know if it's like a full I'm crying because I'm going to lose her I think there's probably a combination and they're like I feel bad for myself of course of course of course you know but um I do think that he will show up to her um suite and do the ultimatum thing and I don't like the ultimatum thing I get it if I was in that circumstance and I was falling for somebody I'd get it it would be so tempting to do the ultimatum thing yeah but if he does it it's just like it's just just to put the lead in that position it's kind of like well we all know what we signed up for and Jesse kept saying like just hold out just hold out obviously it's torture just hold out because I really need this season to go well and you can't be leaving this early what I will say though I don't think so much he's going to go to the ultimatum okay I think he knows he's already dead you know what I'm saying okay I think it's kind of like when you're anxious and you're asking everybody for advice but you know what the answer is but you just really don't want to deal with it and so it scares you I think that's what's going on with him I think he knows I put myself out out there multiple times zero response yeah I know unless she says to me I'm so sorry no I do love you you are my pick I am gone yeah so I think it's like a I know this is the end for me after hooking up hanging out putting myself out there I got enough information there to know that like someone else or both guys are ahead of me I think that's the energy I see a hopelessness in his eyes not like a I'm going to show her or she's going to um she has to make a choice I think she I think he knows she already made the choice okay that's my personal Vibe on all right I have a few thoughts before we move on to Jonathan um but we got to take another quick pause fam listen I feel like we try to have those Time Savers to free up time in our workday right I feel like we all do like automating tasks getting a food delivery service I mean Jesse Palmer writes a letter during Fantasy Suites instead of throwing on a suit and showing up right that's a Time save um being able to run your business or your schedule is important if mailing items like legal documents checks or marketing materials takes up a lot of your time stamps.com is the timesaver you need cut down hours spent on mailing and shipping with stamps.com and do it on your timeline not anyone else's we have used stamps.com for business and personal uses for about a decade at this point and we keep using stamps.com because it truly does save so much time and money yeah speaking of the money with stamps.com you can get rates you can't find anywhere else like up to 89 % off USPS and ups and you can access the USPS and UPS mailing services you need to run your business right from your computer or phone anytime day or night no lines no traffic no waiting truly all you need is a computer and a printer uh they even send you a free scale and you it's so nice and you can easily schedule package pickups through your stamps.com dashboard I mean it's as smooth as it can possibly get by the way if you have a business with stamps.com you seamlessly connect with every major Marketplace and shopping cart if you sell products online and you can order uh shipping and mailing supplies labels and even printers from the supply store when you run low it's it's just the ultimate timesaver I don't know it's just the best it's one of those no-brainers I'm never not going to use stamps.com it's just the best uh free up more time for more important business with stamps.com sign up at stamps.com and enter code mom dad for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial Plus free postage and that free digital scale no long-term commitments or contracts that's stamps.com code Mom Dad um okay back to Devin um so one of the things I wanted to say is that you brought up you know him continuing to say all the things and why if you were in his shoes you would ask yeah so have you said it to anybody else or not the vibe that I was getting when he had the conversation with Jesse is that he he said that he wants to know he wants to like directly ask her do you love me or no MH and he's like I said a lot of the things that I felt like she needed to hear he's like I meant them but I told her the things that she needed to hear and I didn't ask some of the questions and now I want to ask the question so my guess when I brought up him giving the ultimatum I do think that he might show up to her room and start it off as just a question like you know do you love me and depending on her answer it might get it might become ultimatum even if he's not intentionally going in with an ultimatum which he even said to JP he was like i' I'd never given an ultimatum but I can't feel like this anymore so I think it's a little bit like like there's a pride element involved and it's like I don't want to be left hanging here and like I mentioned before I do think there's an immaturity there to a certain extent about like I'm going to say all the things and then if I don't hear it back the idea of you saying it to somebody else I'm spiraling but after watching this episode though I do think it is an immaturity that's there a little bit I can't lie and say that I would be mature enough to handle this yeah I don't think I'd handle it well I'd probably be doing the same thing so I got to you know I got to put that out there right um so you know the episode ended where he's knocking on the door and he's about to have a conversation where he said that he's going to ask those brutal questions and put the brutal truths out there yeah so I don't know how well that's gonna go I was a little pissed at the show that they made a trailer for the episode about the next episode like the beginning of the show was about him going into the room I know I know and then that's not happen you know what I'm saying like usually you you do the beginning of the show featuring what will happen at the end but they featured what will happen at the at the next episode in the beginning so it was very like misleading I was like okay chill like I'm trying to like actually see what happens but yeah I think he's gone do you want to know what's the Devastator though and I didn't think about this until like I can't even believe it and put two and two together they're having the men tell all and if they show the scenes during the mental all of like this fantasy sweet real ceremony whoever gets kicked off might have time with the men yeah but if Devon doesn't get kicked off or doesn't leave he won't be at the mental all with Sam so there's a chance that we never see the Sam Devon face off M because they don't include the final two guys and then if they have the rose ceremony shown and one of the guys gets kicked off they typically give the guy some time but they don't even it's not like the Full Throttle yeah then I really am voting for him to leave so that because we need The Showdown we need it because we also need the Devon versus uh what's his name Thomas Thomas like like he created a couple enemies in there so we need we need the Sam Thomas you know versus or or uh yeah the Sam versus the other Sam versus Devon we need that Showdown it's like if Maria wouldn't have been at the last women tell all oh my God and it would like Sydney would have been there to talk all about Maria without Maria being there but if Devon stays we're not going to get the Sam and Devon and Thomas Devon Showdown which honestly is like makes me feel ill because we need it so badly devastated i' be devastated yeah so I didn't think about that now I'm really bummed out I think he'll be there I think he's gone you think he's gone mhm but even if he but even so let's just say he shows up it won't be the same as him sitting with all the men like it would be again during like the women tell when Maria was like with sitting with the women from the top it won't be the same thing and I'm so bummed out I know cuz that's The Showdown we all needed cuz when they're sitting next to each other then they really go at it yeah and they're just like kind of Backstage and they're like together they're talking to the other guys and it's like ooh it's just bubbling so that's aast St anyway we shall we shall see by the way everyone knows what happened at this point if they're listening to this and they've watched the mental all episode came out on any but you know a lot of people didn't watch it like live I bet there'll be a lot of people who watch it the next day so that's true well anyway let's Jonathon & their Fantasy Suite move on to Jonathan's oneon-one date so Jonathan says from the top he's like I don't know if Jen knows the depth of me like someone who would get engaged to me should but no you know what I agree I agree too to me I mean it's this show that's what this show is right but I do agree I do agree sometimes things Happ you know work that like Devin does know but she's not into him Jonathan Jonathan's a little bit like how did I get this far that's the energy I'm I'm getting Jonathan hits me as like I like you a lot you seem to like me a decent amount but like I'm nowhere saying I'm like we're in love mhm and I'm just a little shocked I'm here right now like that's the energy I'm getting he's like dude like and I've Loved Jonathan the whole way through not a single red flag I've seen everything's been amazing there was one red flag though yeah you know what this is a problem you and I watched we old married couple that Blended the same separately and this podcast is probably so boring because we have the say our brain is connected because guys guys guys this is this is a red flag that I got to say go ahead and say it because it was my one run flag because I've never had a red flag with Jonathan this show and this happen saw the red flag and the red flag is I'm I can't have sweets because I'm shredded and I won't even have a cheat day on national television and I'll make such a stink about it I'll bring it up multiple times he's an itm saying you know I'm not going to waste my day deaf worth the cheat day for Jen but like it was a thing for him he said I'm not a sweets guy he brought up enough times to where later on she goes I know you didn't love the date but do you like this here's like a waterfall or whatever so she already knows that about him when they pulled up that he was like you know I'm not a sweets guy so they've had that conversation the guy that like it's chicken breasts and rice when you're at a Michelin star restaurant in Paris he's going do you guys have chicken breast without we're going to Disneyland together on a little cute and he has packed in his backpack the unseasoned boiled chicken got boiled chicken swe fries and yeah my chur you're like can and and I'm like can I get a second side of ranch for my for my fries and he's like I had boiled chicken yesterday as a cheat day like he brought it up multiple times like he was rattled by he was really bothered by it brother you got to chill man you got to have some fun you're in Hawaii and you want have like a roadside Suite well my thought he took like little bites of the doughnut he's like M he's like let me just count how many sugar grams that is for the day like you know what if that's if that's the way that you want to live your life respect to however you want to live your life but I'm just saying if I'm on a date with someone and we've only gone on what now this is our third date together and we are having our fantasy suet date and we are on television we might get engaged and you are really tripping over the fact that this is going to have to be a cheat day I'm like what's the rest of our life going to look like are we never going to be able to go out to restaurants together when we go out to a theme park when we go to the park like if I bring cheesecake or if I bring you know chicken tenders are you going to just be like going be stripping off the breading you know what for me for me though I think it showed how much he doesn't really like her that much because that was your tell my take was if you're making a stink yeah about cheat days yeah on National Television while you're quote trying to win this person's heart if that's the priority to you and this is like a big sacrifice to you I don't think you like her that much see I disagree cuz I do feel like he has been the guy who's been so honest the entire time that I think he's just going to be direct where it's like it doesn't matter who it is I'm not going to miss my cheat day or I'm not going to have my cheat day I'm not going to mess up my you know I'm in ketosis and I'm not willing to break ketosis ketosis that day it's been 40 days straight of ketosis yeah he made a big S about enough for her to like address it which I thought was hilarious but also like brother lighten up it's like when is this going to happen ever again this when you're going have this incredible memory now your cut is talking about the sweets yeah I know but you could tell by his face that it actually did that was so funny um but no that was my one red flag for Jonathan I was like uh that would be really at least that would be hard I guess if you're wired that way too whatever but I'm like for me that would be really hard cuz I'd be like what about all the fun we'd have eating delicious yummy desserts and food together you know that's my most favorite thing is to go to like a cute little Bakery and like devour sugar and pastries together it's romantic very um but aside from that you know they go to some local markets um they they do shaved I later more sweets I'm like oh he's tripping they had like a they had like a a cocktail either was a cocktail or like a sweet drink and he's just like no but they go and they have this picnic by this stunning waterfall and I have to tell you though there was this one red flag they make sense to me Evan I know that you were saying that you feel like it's not nearly as deep or close to the Devon or Marcus situation but to me I disagree no no no I'm not saying it's not as deep as Devin I mean I think the Marcus she's obviously the most into but I'm but with for me it just as like it's much more like early days Vibes it's like it's like it's like second date energy it's middle of the Season energy to me it's like he's like I like you a lot she's like I like you a lot and he's like I'm just not there yet and you know like that's the energy I'm getting is that like she likes him maybe a little bit more than he likes her but he just feels like oh yeah I'm dating this girl she's really cool but not like oh my God I'm really I don't know what it is because me maybe he's like he seems like such a realist and is so upfront they just make sense to me like when they're together the difference between when I saw her with Devan and then even her with Marcus later but when I saw her with Jonathan she was having so much fun she was playful she was laughing the whole time they did have really deep conversations which we can talk about later in the real world they out the whole time that they're together they're having a great time she feels like she's herself she's looking at his mouth the entire time which is full the sign of like I want to kiss you and she's she's into him physically too and they just make sense to me I feel like they'd be a really good couple I agree I just don't see electricity that's more what I'm getting they don't see electricity I see I see like like they're dating and having a good time no I don't agree that's more what I'm getting at it's like we're talking about marriage we're talking about proposals and I just feel like they are they have the most potential in my opinion seems like they're really healthy together the vibe's really good but they're just the farthest behind but that's what I'm saying is I think I don't even know if they're the farthest behind it's just not it's not like hey I'm going to go get down on one knee tomorrow but I think if she were to like look at this from 100 feet and not have the mentality of I need to get engaged at the end of this it'd be like to me Jonathan's the clear front runner in the sense of I feel like you get everything from him I completely agree he's he's you get the fun the laughter the play you get the Deep conversations with him he's super honest he's willing to go there he's willing to go to some of those like you know more tough vulnerable places but is he going to propose at the end likely no and I said last episode he gives great boyfriend to me like he's ready to be in a serious relationship I really do think so they have two three years of dating ahead of them but I I just but they don't have they're not they're just not far along don't think he's going to be the one at the end because I think she wants to get engaged but I guess it just bums me out watching it because I do feel like if they were my personal friends yes if I was personally friends with Jen or Jonathan or both and I would be watching this show I'd be like yes I agree you found somebody yes I agree this is a great partner for great connection this is a great partner for you put under too much stress about the whole marriage thing 100% I agree it just bums me out m i mean Maybe I'm Wrong maybe she keeps going with him and maybe that's how How It Ends is that they just don't they stay together you know and she knocks on his door at the very end and is like hey I know that you're not ready to get engaged and I wanted it but like let's just end it here let's not have a I I don't know I I don't yeah yeah I agree I agree but I just I just feel like when I see them together and I'm watching them and I'm watching them I'm like this makes so much sense to me yeah no I I mean I completely agree with you 100% I think it's the right move I think they have the most actual chemistry they seem to be fun loose they seem to be carefree uh I don't see a lot of like like electricity and I think she's someone who not not in a bad way not in a bad way but I'm just saying she has these like things like with Sam with Marcus where she does I feel like she really almost feels in her head that she needs that like raw energy and she has that and I think when she has that with someone she has a really hard time thinking about anybody else that's the energy I'm getting I I don't I don't doubt that but what I'm saying is I just I feel that like pulsating energy between them because like I said she's staring out of his mouth the whole time and they're they're making out I think in the long run they work out again but I think in this in this pressure cooker she's going off of Just raw energy and also in the night portion so after their their day date together she communicates I feel like the most with him they right away get into the conversation where he was like Hey I want to partner with a lot of confidence and you are that person and she's like wow that's like amazing to hear and she tells him about you know growing up with her parents who were Vietnamese immigrants and then growing up in this like white Suburban neighborhood it was hard for her like you know talking about bringing the certain lunches to school that she would get made fun of so she was hiding who she was and just until these recent years she's like really proud of who she is she's not having those conversations I don't feel like we're hearing her have near those conversations with a Deon or Marcus having them with Jonathan why why are neither of them saying they love each other we got Devon who she likes the least professing his undying love we got Marcus saying you know straight up I don't love you and her saying I love you so people are capable of feeling love and these two people are both on the same page of like we're not there yet so that's what I'm saying yes and I think you're right I'm saying I just it like bothers me because I feel like what I'm watching is two people who would actually really work out but because of the pressure cooker of this show I don't know if he's final two obviously in my opinion but I don't know though if a Jonathan or a Jen this pressure cooker is the place for them genuinely I know she has her sights on getting engaged but I do feel like she would have a better relationship in like an IRL situation this is a pressure cooker and if there's I could I could never do this I could never find my person in this situation I'd be spiraling there's no way complely agree but when I look at her I feel like I feel like she'd be better off in like a longer you know get to know you style relationship and I feel that way about Jonathan too and I feel like if they would have met in real life that would be her person but I just I'm nervous because I don't feel like it's going to happen because I don't think he'll get I completely agree anyway sorry I feel passionately about it because I just when I when I see them together and I when I watched this oneon-one this fantasy sweet date it made my heart hurt because I feel like I'm seeing the inevitable end of the fact that he's not going to be the person that she leaves with because he's just not there and he's not in the space of saying I love you yet and that's what she wants but it just feels like the like the right person agreed it feel even as much as I loved Grant the more I see her and Jonathan together together I'm like I think this is the right person though yeah I hope I'm wrong anyway agree okay we got to take one more quick pause we keep diving in so babes it's been hot God holy smokes sweating right now I'm like we might have to Dr on the AC in a second here because mama is drenched um it's been so hot dripping in sweat all day long 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you better hydration today using promo code momad liquid i.com okay so back to Jonathan um so you know they have their nighttime portion they get the fantasy suite date card they say yes going into the fantasy suite date the actual Suite Jen says being with Jonathan is easy and this is another moment where I'm like yes being with him is easy and in my humble opinion yes when you are with someone I'm not saying that there aren't obstacles to overcome but this early on in a process I think one of the key things should be ease maybe that's a wrong take I think it's I think it's personal some people say exciting right invigorating but I for me personally a long-term relationship again you're going to always have your ups and downs and obstacles to overcome but like with a oneon-one with oneon-one Dynamic this early on in a relationship when you are already like grabbing on tooth and nail and there is already like drama in the first few weeks of knowing somebody that to me is like maybe this isn't going to be the right person when I hear a friend of mine who is like hey for instance Katie and Jeff right the first thing Katie thirston and Jeff are cury as the one of the first things that I noted about that was that Katie was just like everything's so easy with him and it was just like she met him and everything just like puzzle piece fit and of course you you go through stuff and you work through things together but like in general that those early days are like oh this is like my person this is easy and I feel like with Jen I want to be like yes maybe he's not going to get engaged to you at the end yeah but there's the ease to it because maybe you found your person you know and it's not the person who you're trying to force yourself to fall in love with AKA Devon or the person that you're trying to convince to fall in love with you AKA Marcus mhm we shall see but then you know the next morning I will say he woke up and he was very like positive he was like I feel amazing waking up next to you is incredible he seemed very reassured by how natural it was which I think for him is like a big win because he feels very like the guy who's taking note of like how it all feels and how it's going and is taking this really seriously even if he's not like I don't know I don't know if I'll propose the end um but he was like we had a a lot of conversation during their fantasy suite we talked openly we talked thoroughly and he left with a very positive feeling and she left him seeming way more positively energetic than when she left Devin yeah so I think top two are Devon or are uh Jonathan and Marcus that's my guess I think Devon's getting sent home he's gone yeah yeah but any who um so on on to Marcus yes so the Marcus & their Fantasy Suite first thing we see with Marcus before he gets even his one-on-one date is we have golfing with Jessie the new YouTube show golfing with Jessie Jessie meeting with Dad meeting with Dad they're at the driving range beforehand hitting a couple balls and Marcus basically is like I haven't had that Epiphany yet but I'm doing all I can to get there it's not fair to get down on one knee right now considering how I'm feeling and JP is just like what can Jen do what can she do to get you there and he's like I want to know that she sees me and peel back why she sees me and like gets me and knows me and all I'm getting from this is I guess almost similar to Jen with Devon where it's like at this early on I get that there's the whole engagement thing at the end but this early on when you're like I'm fighting tooth and nail to figure out why I'm not there yet that's me I go okay I get if you come in and you're like no I'm never going to be ready for an engagement at the end which is a Jonathan energy to me but when you're like I'm trying I'm trying I'm trying I can't get there I can't get there I can't get there it's like well it's maybe because it's not the person for you to get there with yes right big time it's also like his energy even just on the driving W range there's not even like a playful like we're playing golf here it's very just like he's like holding his thing and he's just staring at Jesse int and it's like this is everything and it's very heavy and I'm like oh I'm on the you know on the edge and I'm just like take a breath you know what I mean it's like very anxious intense energy and it's like it's very it makes me short of breath you know what I mean it's just like chill out this energy is like unrelenting yeah I mean I felt that way with their entire every time every time he's on screen it's like unrelenting ing heaviness mhm mhm which is so strange when the next scene is her talking about how fun and flirty she feels around him yeah I don't get it it's like fun and flirt have we seen any fun and flirty scenes well you know after watching their whole date together I kept going back to again you know obviously maybe it's editing and we're missing their Dynamic together um and other people I've heard have said like yeah they have killer chemistry and I'm like maybe we're just missing it I don't know I don't know um but I do feel like I keep going back to what we said last episode where I wonder and we see her brother a preview of her brother in the upcoming um finale where he is saying to her you know I don't know you always go for the person who's emotionally unavailable and I'm assuming he's talking about Marcus the way that he's referring to it and he's like I don't know how he's feeling about you here D D D D D and so you know if that is a habit and if that's some something that she is working through changing then it makes sense to me that Marcus would be he's the person who she had the first date with so she's going to feel attached to him and then he's kind of more of a distant person he's not giving her everything that these other guys are giving her so then it makes sense to me that she'd be like okay it's the Sam and the Marcus where they're not giving me a lot and I'm drawn to that yes you know being drawn to what you can't have or something being drawn to like wanting something that's not there very interesting yeah very interesting I I can't really relate I don't really understand that desire so it's a little foreign to me yeah you know what I mean like I'm kind of watching it going like if I was pouring into someone and they didn't really like me that much or they were like sorry it's not happening I don't you know it's not a thing for me but it's it's very much a prevalent thing like a lot of people do feel that way where it's like some people even say you know you hear people say like oh I like him so much cuz he just ignored me the whole day and you're like w that's really interesting you know what I mean like w like I could not feel farther from that you know what I mean so it's obviously a thing a very common thing yeah um but in this case it's a little bit like from the outside at least from the cut we're getting where it's like feels pretty blaringly obvious but I feel for Jen because I do feel like you know even though he's simultane L continuing to say over and over again like I'm not there I'm not there while she's pouring her heart out there is this piece where from her perspective she might feel like they're really connecting because he is always crying and is always getting into this emotional thing idea that like this emotion means he likes me as opposed to he's just emotionally got issues maybe instead of the perspective of like okay he clearly is like going like through a lot of stuff in his head right now I would imagine it might be if I guess if I was the lead there's this feeling of like oh he's crying because he loves me deep down and he can't just quite like tap into it yet or that any of these emotions have even to do with me he's got so much he's so emotionally like traumatized or whatever's going on with him to where it's like all he does is cry about kind of lowkey himself yeah and then I think that like you said she's getting kind of almost like hypnotized into like wow look at all the emotion he's giving me on behalf of us and realistically it's like none of it's about you if he was in this is like therapy sessions it's like you're watching a guy well he's in he's in a situation where it's like you're supposed to be you know it's supposed to be speed and he's like clearly not ready and he's trying to force himself and there is that kind of like militant energy of like I'm supposed to get here so now I'm putting this pressure on myself and now I'm feeling shame and then all these tears are coming from that but as the lead there might be this feeling of oh those emot are because our connection is so deep where I'm not necessarily getting that I don't think that's what the tears are about I think the tears are about a million other things 100 but I I do feel for her because I think if you're in that position and then you also have what it seems like she might have which is like the tendency to go for the guys who are emotionally unavailable so it's like oh there's this guy who kind of has this emotionally unavailable energy but simultaneously whenever I bring up something intense with him he starts crying so so it is in there deep down instead of realizing that those tears probably were about pressure and something else not about their connection agreed it's also giving a little bit of like fixer thing like I'll be the solution to all his problems yeah it's and again like I like I feel for her because again hearing all of what she's gone through it sounds like she has a history of kind of feeling this way her trauma and her backstory it's like it makes sense to me then it' be like yeah there'd be the tendency to maybe feel connection that way even though what might be best for you is being loved in in a different way of course you know absolutely um but going back to Marcus and Jesse There was a scene where you know Jesse all of a sudden stops and he's just like do you know how much of an inspiration you are and there was like this like long moment and we've talked about how throughout this season we were like it seems to us like the show is really trying to push Marcus as The Bachelor and yet we end up getting Grant as The Bachelor and I'm like okay does is it because Jen ends up with Marcus but like why is the show focused on him ending up as Bachelor if she ends up with Marcus you know I don't know D D D D du um but I wanted to address something yeah so before we started recording this episode I looked at our DMS and I had gotten numerous messages from people who were like have you heard about the Marcus allegations um and so right before we started recording I was briefly looking and I want to apologize in advance because I just looked at it so like I I don't I need to do my due diligence and like actually dive into everything that's going on like I'm not sure um if like specific named people have come for it if it's Anonymous like like I don't know um but what I do know from briefly looking beforehand now is that there have been numerous allegations very serious allegations that have come out including essay allegations um and like I said I need to dive more into this but it is something that I really hope that the show addresses because these are very serious allegations um and has a conversation about this especially considering that you know I don't know if Marcus is going to end up being a final two but he's already in this final three and um you know I am assuming he's going to be final two so you know whether that be during the mental all or during after the final Rose I just hope that this conversation happens um and again apologies in advance that I don't I don't know details um about these alleged conversations and allegations um but on that note I I did just want to take a quick moment to say to anyone who's listening who is a victim or a Survivor that we love you and I am so sorry I'm so sorry if the legal system has failed you um I know rain is an amazing organization we donate to rain and they have um a national essay hotline we can call their resources there but just wanted to take a moment and say um that we love you so much um but yes did not know about that and um am now thinking that there's possibly that might possibly be a reason why it looked like they were building him up to the Bachelor and then this conversation started online um but you know there's then the other conversation to get into about casting in the future and with all these things coming up just just having those conversations and making sure um beforehand but any just wanted to take a moment to address that um and thank you to those who sent me that and I'm going to be diving more into it um but Marcus and Jen end up having their date and it's another date where you know they put them I feel like in like a high adrenaline situation it's like skydiving where it's like it's very different to have a date where you're at a market and just like chitchatting with each other versus a date where in this case they had like this sun set date where they started snorkeling with Mana rays that were like bioluminescent your like your blood's pumping the adrenaline's going and you don't really have to have too much of a conversation obviously they had the boat ride before um but yeah it was just another one of those dates where it's just like adrenaline adrenaline adrenaline y um not much talking going on when you're in the ocean face down in the water no and it's just like yeah the blood is pumping and pump good energy and it's just exciting and um then you know that ended up going into their night portion which it must have been very late at that point because they were doing a sunset snorkel session prob 1:00 a.m. 2 a.m. like already it's like so late and then they're going to have like the overnight um but during the night portion of this date she asks him to cheers and you know the cheers is I did miss you um and whenever we get together it is quite a memory and I'm happy to be here it was not this like intimate deep emotional cheer situation it was like I'm happy at this moment right now and every time we get together there's this big exciting memory and it's like well yeah because you're on a show that's creating those and this isn't you know this is it almost just feels like some of these some of these like how could you not fall in love it feels like sometimes I think the show is created literally in these incubators of connection yeah the show is created to get you to that space for sure um and then he tells her that he is nervous and he was nervous because the rose ceremony last week he realized um that he could go home while he was trying and it got in his head which surprised me that that made him nervous the rose ceremony like that he thought he was a shoin after do you know what I'm saying like I was surprised by that that he was nervous after the Roose that it wasn't like oh you know now that we're in this like top three I'm feeling nervous I got the that he was saying that he was nervous because he almost lost it last week and that surprised me yeah especially after like his conversation with the other guy I I don't know I don't know yeah I don't know it sounds like he's in between winning and like failing like it seems like that's just very much at the Forefront it's all like I should be at this place but I'm not and is that a failure mhm you know I really want to be a father he says earlier in the other episode it's like no one's talking about being a father talking about if you love Jen yeah you know what I'm saying like the whole thing is like the reason why like the the vibe is so weird because it's like it's always about him and his emotions how he feels about life he wants to be a father but he's not connecting with her yet he wants this life and he feels like something's wrong with him it's you know you know what I'm saying it's like it's it's there's very little like the things we have together and what I like about you it's all about like where I'm at in life mhm mhm you know what I mean yeah and even like when he when he told her that he doesn't love her yet like when you look at Jonathan and he says and he says I'm not there yet it's very natural it's very like hey you know we've had not quite there yet but you know we're I feel like we're headed in a great direction for him it's like and I know I'm a failure and it's just like Jesus like I don't know whole energy is just very weird it's not me and you it's me yeah and I think that's what makes me feel very unwell about just their interactions is that she has this raw attraction to him but outside of that it's nothing but just therapy hour and heaviness yeah yeah no 100% 100% but he says that he's you know he's unsure she deserves someone who is sure about her he might be putting pressure on himself because of the process but it's hard for him to get to the point to comfortably say that he's in love and she then is quiet for a very long time and then she's like I need to tell you that I'm in love with you and I know we saw it in the preview but it's still like knocked my socks off it was still I don't know I do not think we've ever had a lead profess love while profess love first being told I'm not in love with you especially while being told like just FYI especially this late in the game this late in the game being told I'm not there and then have the lead be like well just so you know I need to get this off my chest I'm in love with you and I mean she's she's locked in he starts crying right after I mean like full tear full tear down the face and he says that again going back to the try like what she said earlier he's like I'm going to try as hard as I can I've been trying I'm going to keep trying and this is the moment where if I you know had an earpiece and I was Jen's friend it's like okay we have to look at the data too of how long we've been together I know that this is a wild crazy ride where it's like we're talking about an engagement at the end so of course it's the pressure cooker environment and you're like oh my God I'm I'm spiraling I'm spinning I don't know if I could get engaged at the end but the difference to me is the energy and you brought up Jonathan before but the energy of like someone who's like don't know if I can get engaged at the end and tell you that I'm in love with you but I do really care about you and I want to stay here if you're okay with me staying here I want to stay here because I want to walk away with you at the end of this I don't think I can get engaged and I don't even know if I'll be able to tell you that I'm in love with you but man I'm falling in love with you and I do want to I do want to make this I want to try to make this work but if you're not okay with leaving not engaged then I might be the person you might need to send home like that to me is the way to communicate where you're like hey I I'm I'm over the moon I feel like like like hey I I really care about you and I think we could have a future together versus if I had a friend who was like the person keeps telling me they're trying they're trying they're trying they're trying and I'm like this early on in the game if there's that much stress about trying to create feelings we have a problem yeah the difference is I totally get you not being ready to get married but like when you're communicating hey I wish I was there but man I'm crazy about you and if you're okay with it I want to keep pursuing this but the trying conversation is where I'm like oh no man well yeah the difference is like with Jonathan and her is it's like he's kind of saying like we're headed towards a really good place mhm the difference between Marcus is like I failed you yeah by not loving you and then not following it up with but I still want to be here and I still want to fight and I still want to I just am like you know I'm going through my own [ __ ] so I'm got to figure that out but I'm still so it's like again it's this weird like instead of him just saying I'm still fighting for us it's this am I accepted even though I'm not the man I should be yeah I think you know it's almost like more about acceptance than it is about like their relationship between two mature people that are like fighting something two of like when you have the conversations with with Jonathan there doesn't feel like pressure there's the level of like hey I might not be quite ready to tell you that I'm in love with you yet um and I don't know if I'll be ready to get down on one knee but I'm really enjoying our time it feels loose it feels fun it's like we're getting to know each other and I'm comfortable with that versus the conversation with Marcus is it feels like it's a ticking clock to him where it's like if I don't at like this you know you know exact hour feel this exact way then it's a failure versus like just kind of letting the process happen and when you get to that final space but also communicating of course communicating like I I'm not quite there yet I think is totally fine yeah because then you're letting the lead know like just so you know don't get your hopes up like I don't know if I'm going to get to that space But then the relaxed nature of but I really care about you and I'm falling in love with you ability to communicate yeah so let's enjoy this process while we're here that's okay with you yeah you know yeah it's just a very it's a very different energy that's for sure big time um but then the fantasy suite card they get the invite and they go to the fantasy suite and the next morning he said that he's feeling good after last night and they were able to talk about like what was weighing on him and she's like well you know at the end of the day I do feel like honesty is the best policy so we did have these conversations in my opinion though she was a mirror or she was like a picture of what is really happening because after she did admit to him that I am in love with you even though he's not in love with her she to me started looking like very tired and defeated and even the next morning when they got up she didn't have she can be so sparkly the sparkle was not there it was like just this weight of I put myself out there and feel like I'm trying to convince somebody and it's that really vulnerable state and I'm sure as the lead you never expected that you were going to be in the position where you were like please love me yes cuz from however many seasons we've seen before that's just not what we see so in this situation it just looked like she was wearing just like this backpack kind of of this isn't easy and I'll go back to it over and over again this early I know this is a pressure cooker situation so it's different but this early in a relationship it shouldn't feel this hard yes anyone I know who's feeling this hard even in the real world this quickly on I'm like it shouldn't be this hard this quickly I agree yeah their relationship seems it's a lot more about him wanting to convince her he's a good guy MH and her almost like feeling bad for him and I want him to know he's a good guy and he's going I'm a goody guy I promise even though I failed you know what I mean as opposed to like you guys have fun together and like is it a Vibe I don't know not seeing it yeah you know what I mean totally yeah I think that Joy this early on in a relationship Joy should be the go to and of course you feel you feel other emotions aside from that you feel nervousness anxiety CU you're like oh is this the person but like I feel like the main go-to this early on should be Joy yeah um so when the main go-to is sadness confusion stress right out the gate don't confuse that with depth it yeah don't confuse that with like we're getting deep and honestly I'd probably say say the same to Devon yeah if Devon was in the room I'd be like listen I know she's she is a catch and a half and she's wonderful but if you have it seems like with Devon it's like oh we were all good up until this point when I said I love you and then she didn't but if he has been feeling cuz it it did almost seem like in his conversation with Jesse at the bar that he has been feeling this way for a while when he was like I've been giving giving and giving so maybe it's he's felt this way for a little while I'm like if that is how you're feeling right at the top maybe this isn't the one yeah because maybe it's it should Joy should be the go-to and obviously when you're in on a reality TV show where you're competing there's going to be a different level of like weird weirdness and stress that's involved in it and insecurity but you know in the real world when you're dating you don't know if the other person is dating other people too so that's an element as well but when if you're not feeling like the the first go-to is Joy yeah but that's not like the primary feeling maybe I'm wrong but I I go yeah I don't think so I agree you know that's I think maybe why I feel so inclined towards her and Jonathan even though they're having these like conversations that could be painful and are very real it seems like their first instinct together is Joy yeah agree and they are enjoying getting to know each other and like making out and having fun with each other that's like the first feeling with them agreed I don't know those are my Final thoughts feelings well weirdo episode big a lot of a lot of uncomfortable lot of like heavy a lot of like vies yeah it was didn't walk away feeling great love yall I was I was going to say I'm like you know with the with the fantasy sweet episodes normally you know it's jokey jokey fun fun crazy yeah usually just a lot of like sex jokes but this said zero that no it was not it it was very intense and and it it it did it did get my mind grinding like I was kind of feeling a lot of like how would I react in this situation and what would I tell a friend and how do I feel about this this this and that yeah it was a lot of that kind of got to take a bath to take a cold shower after that but not a cold shower for that reason a cold shower for other reasons well like we said the episode ended with Devon knock knock knocking at the door and um we'll see what happens in menel all and you can all join us on Friday for the mentel all episode very excited about that hopefully we have some Devon moments it's just fun chaos um but we love you all again please stay tuned on Instagram stories for when things are going to get posted but mentel will be out Friday and yeah we love you all we got to turn this AC on because I am absolutely sweating okay bye bye [Music]