jenn faces her past [bachelorette recap 2024, episode 5]

intro now the Unspeakable thing has been said out loud and no one's running in fact she's feeling closer to them in fact it feels better than ever it's inspiring the men to show up for her in a way that she's never had before hi everyone I'm Julie she's Kelly and we're here to find love we're back again this week for another Bachelorette recap today we're recapping episode 5 of genen season of The Bachelorette for those of you who don't know us we're two dating coaches who analyze the relationship psychology and dating themes in reality TV shows especially the Bachelor and The Bachelorette if you're into this kind of stuff hit the Subscribe button to follow along and join the conversation you can also listen to us on podcast form in apple and Spotify podcasts and of course sitting beside me it's not Kelly she's actually off right now traveling the world and being an incredible Nomad so joining me is my partner and love of my life Jeremy thank you so much for coming on thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here hello everybody we can't wait to get into this week's episode so as always everybody feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below we love hearing what you think if you're listening on podcast shoot us a DM on Instagram while you listen so get cozy have a cup of tea and let's get into it this week we start off the episode with her ex attempting to join exes, closure, and the past the season we got a little bit of backstory on him and Jen's short but apparently very meaningful relationship at last episode episode so they dated for a few months it seems like they were quite Young when they got together he hasn't been able to get over her he feels like he loves her which was really intense and provoked a lot of emotions in Jen because she hasn't had anyone ever tell her that they were in love with her so it threw her for a tizzy all of the men were just not having it they were so unhappy about the thought of her ex joining but of course Jen makes the decision to leave her ex in the past because she sees her future in the room so I thought that it was a very Noble effort him coming in and attempting to win her back and I'm glad they had closure it wasn't perfect but I do think it was enough for him to feel like he could close the chapter and move on to his credit he also apologized to the men didn't go well cuz then started to kind of Lobby some insults along uh but yeah Jeremy what did you think about her ex coming back in just the whole Narrative of you know their story and how Jen handled that situation well that was a low blow that he received at the very end so I did feel bad for him there um well I I mean it's interesting because you could see how much of it has been framed as this very dramatic moment to bring him in at a very inconvenient time and I I I you know we were discussing this and I think there's so much information that's missing to provide like the full context around what had happened you know what's the nature of their original relationship why did they break up why did like what was the nature of their friendship and where were these feelings coming from why wasn't anything said in the past you know I think a lot of that is still a mystery so it's it's kind of hard to kind of make any conclusion or judgment around what happened but ultimately Jen's decision about it says everything which is this is something in the past that I'm not you know willing to revisit and maybe I have changed so much or you have changed so much that whatever was good back then is not what I'm looking for now you know I think that was a very powerful statement and yeah it was interesting you know I did appreciate his courage to come in and apologize um but yeah still I'm I'm confused around the timing of all of that you know I I'm pretty sure he knew that she was going on to this show and you know why not take the moment uh to to profess his love then before she even got into this very messy situation and I could see too that you know as much as it brought confusion into her feelings about this bringing someone into the mix this late is just going to create so much messiness and so much drama and um you know I think that would cause a lot more problems and it would help her find what she's looking for at least that's my impression o that's really well put because because some of the men accurately assess that him joining the season would have been an unfair Advantage because they have so much history that the show would have changed the path that she was on right now she's exploring these new aspects of herself and she's exploring of all of these men I think this episode really showed her kind of co-creating emotional intelligence with these all of the dates that she was on with her ex being in the picture yes it could have offered healing that maybe the dates that she has with all of the other people wouldn't but it would have added another lay of complexity that I'm not sure she needs to handle like we all have capacity to you know really integrate our stories but there's a matter of how much do you take on and she doesn't need to take on an ex-boyfriend and 11 other people that she's juggling these relationships with I think it was a wise choice for her to really make the decision to I mean and that's kind of the camp I'm in like I really believe that it's so rare to make things work out with an ex unless you've both changed into people that can grow together you would have to be two people that uh are kind of at like similar stages of where you're at and I think that her and her ex it was very apparent that they had changed into two different people and that was something he also brought up of like well this experience has shifted her away from a person that would be interested in being in a relationship with me and the relationship I'm hoping to have with her and that's the thing is that when each of you have changed so much it's a completely new relationship so the danger is you can bring in all this historical baggage and historical patterns that may not even be applicable anymore so you're recreating and Reinventing the entire relationship so it's a little bit like starting from scratch and it can be over complicated because if you change so much you're now bringing on the echo of an old person that's no longer there and you have to like unwind that too so it does get very tricky not to say that's impossible you know I think you know perhaps they've both grown and matured into more patient more compassionate more understanding people that would make the relationship easier but yeah it is a disservice to the 11 guy she's already dating now which is already way too much uh so I noticed that happening for Jen this episode me and Kelly have had this ongoing theory about what Jen's journey is really going to look like and we have hypothesized that this is really us seeing in real time a person rework her romantic narratives from the jump like she is reframing everything she's seeing old situations from a slightly different perspective and that's a huge part of growth right it's just a shift in the way that you're perceiving things so I think even her releasing that and not chasing after that kind of connection did move something I was happy to see her handle the way that she did I think for the men on her season and I for maybe any other season they were excited to you know just kind of keep it to what it is and to explore the journey as it is right now so then next in the episode one-on-one with jonathon we have her one-on-one date of Jonathan and I love this date I love the two of them together I liked how he was one making fun of the fact that all of her dates involve Heights and he hates Heights she hates Heights he's like what are we doing on a helicopter I hate this so much but I guess let's get into it I thought that was so real and I loved in his talking head how he kept you know saying I have such fun light-hearted banter with Jen which I think all of the men have but what he's really seeking is a deep emotional connection and he was like I really want to know who you are so I can feel comfortable showing who I am and then they really had this open conversation about two relationships in the past that they separately had that was encircled in some kind uh some type of emotional abuse in terms of toxicity and gaslighting manipulation it was really beautiful to see him share and for her to engage in that sharing in a thoughtful way and she was also kind of engaging in this Mutual reciprocation of you're sharing this I will share this about something I also experienced with my ex they're very much energetically on the same page I like them together Jonathan is by far my favorite person for her and you had some really interesting thoughts as you were watching the episode last night there was a lot to to determine and you know maybe to uh step back a little bit you mentioned too I I think there we are witnessing Something Beautiful which is her real time Evolution and the growth of her emotional intelligence just through this experience and I you could see her starting to practice that because she's just holding space for all these guys starting to become vulnerable and realizing okay this is how I'd like to be uh tended to with my emotions and she's showing up to it and she's like getting some real practice like it's actually quite beautiful and you know we'll talk about this later but the level of vulnerability she's able to put forth was was gamechanging I think in this in this particular episode um but yeah with Jonathan you know I'd say that three things really stood out to me about him one is authenticity you know I think him stepping into the helicopter and just expressing this is how I feel like I'm afraid he's not you know trying to be macho and show you know a brave face he just like this is who I am this is what I'm going through I think that was that's quite refreshing to to see that especially when there's like so much testosterone in in the group of men I do like that he was seeking depth you know you call this out where it's not just about having fun and giggles and and just having this like high energy what is can we like go through emotional conversations with each other and really talk about deeper feelings that we're experiencing and that's so critical in a relationship because it's not always going to be pleasant you know sunshine and rainbows your entire relationship you're going to go through hard times you're going to go through tough situations a and you get need to know is my partner going to be able to handle me when things are really tough and can I handle my partner when things are really tough so I really appreciated the fact that that was a priority for him I think the third thing was just gentleness you know I think he was very kind and thoughtful and gentle with his words way he attended to her I think Jonathan's certainly a good match and a good fit so I agree with you on that one I don't know if he's my favorite per se but you know he's cool you don't think he's your favorite I don't really have a favorite to be honest um but yeah he's he's a good one MH what I like about his energy similar to Grant who were talk about uh later on was that their energy feels very masculine without being overly Macho and combative similar to Devon and Sam M they just get into these little tips with each other that just feels a little bit more of them they're just kind of forgetting the purpose of the show whereas I feel like Jonathan and uh Grant can just kind of stay in an energy that Jen appreciates and likes but they're not feeding into the drama of the house so that's what I like about Jonathan I like that they have conversations where it does feel like they're both getting something out of it and they're matching each other's vulnerability and it's not like he's plunging too deep he's staying at a level that Jen feels like is accessible for her she is a new person she is a newcomer to how she's expressing her emotions and how she's open up about these things in the past and I have a suspicion that Jonathan is very much on a similar level and that's why it's so refreshing to see these conversations because they're getting as much out of it as they're putting in and it doesn't feel like one person is lacking it doesn't feel like one person is holding back so I am just like okay like out of all of the guys and I haven't liked a lot of her guys this season as you know I've just been like I don't know if I like it for Jen but I do like Jonathan in terms of how they added this new dimension to their Connection in episode five and it really was I can have fun with you and I can open up with you and I'm surprised by you I think that kind of sparkly energy can just it will make their connection grow so much more yeah agreed um and was this the one that ended up in the rain as well yes this was the it was a very iconic scene like oh my God this is I was thinking like this is totally stag they're they're dumping water under it's like the camera a little further and it's just like a a bucket of water dropped on yeah it's an in it's an intern who's just like oh my God Here I Go Again spraying the host down the people I mean I fell for it I was like oh my gosh this is the cutest thing and it did feel very uh much like a romcom and I think that's something that he had expressed you're right I'm kind of mixing him a little bit of Grant because both those States felt so similar on um in a really good way but I think that he's also interested in having this relationship that not only looks good but feels good by the way have we mentioned we have an Instagram come find us on there we're always posting more quick takes behind the scenes of filming and after hour thoughts on the latest Bachelor Nation relationship news it's a super fun way to stay connected and you can always DM us about what you're excited to hear us talk about about any bachelor episode hope to see you over there now we get into the part of the episode that I just found super fascinating in terms of all of these projections and communication just totally missing each other Jen is having a good episode so far she's feeling really confident she's in her element she looks incredible she's having these like makeouts with the guys it just feels like she's really on top of the world and then they have a group group date and devin date they're h ing sheep around everybody again of course gets mad at Devon and I just thought it was super funny because she kept saying that she wanted to be a somebody that took initiative and he was the only one that took initiative I think the other guys were so focused on doing the game versus focusing on Jen which is the whole point of the state it's to focus on Jen Deon was playing a higher level of Chess because they did take initiative in hurting the sheep and Farmers but they that the real game is connecting Jen so I think Deon realized okay I can't compete with these Farmers I'm just going to go talk to the girl and make a connection that's the real game that's like what we're really trying to do here I think their anger also is fair because they were following the rules of the show so it's not like they um were coming up with an unreasonable emotion it's like hey we were told to do this we follow the instructions yet this guy didn't follow the instructions he played a smarter game so there's there's a disappointment there's a frustration and there's an Envy kind of mixed in together so yeah it's just you know kind of sucks for everybody except Devon Devon has been a very complicated figure this entire season he's been someone to root for he's been someone to not give a lot of Grace for it because of the way that he has this really intense competitive I don't care I'm going to have all this time of genen energy that that just rubs the men the wrong way I do think that he's taken that affirmation of I'm not here to make friends I'm here to find love extremely seriously and he's just leaning hard into that but I felt like because Jen had spoken about it so much throughout the day in her Talking Heads was she was like I want somebody to take initiative he did seem like he was the only person that understood on an unspoken fundamental level that Jen was all about and the other guys getting upset with um him for not playing the roles of the show have been I think too caught into the show and not as caught into their connection of Jen which says something to me about their real connection of Jen I feel like it's a little less and it's a little bit more about looking good that's interesting yeah well I was going to say that there's another dimension there too which is a sense of Brotherhood and camaraderie it's like hey we're all together in this polyamorous relationship like we got to be Bros too and like you know help each other out so I think you know and you can see this like when the guys are saying goodbye to each other you know they're showing so much love to each other it's like love you bros like take care yeah um so I think when someone steps out of that and they start taking care of tending to themselves and their own needs versus thinking about the Brotherhood the the reaction is kind of like what the hell you betrayed us you know I think there's that there's that at play at the same time with all the other stuff too that's an interesting framing because in poly Amber's relationships sometimes there is a primary relationship ship an anchor relationship is that Devon Devon's just kind of the person and it's not like she's actively prioritizing him but I think because he is such a huge initiator it's hard for her not to fall into that energy but I agree that there is something about Brotherhood codery and not only that but in really having the social intelligence to know that a huge part of this experience is of Jen but most of it is living with the guys in the house and how much they like me how much they I care and not even care like respect me in the way that I'm respecting them I would say he's failing in that but he is playing a good game of jet yeah yeah and he had an opportunity to I think tend to that and like um um basically when he's like speaking sitting with the guys I I think he opted for hey I'm doing this thing and that's the way I play it versus like Hey listen guys I just mutually respect all of you but this is like you know what my heart's telling me and it's like I think he created a bit more of a separation in the way he handled that conversation versus trying to repair so he's got these missed opportunities as well he does and something about that a little bit clumsy or just not it just doesn't bold well when somebody plays the game that way on their season because they are joining this universe this bachelor Nation Universe of all of these other leads and all of these other contestants that happens after the show and Devon hasn't had enough supporters enough people that can really back him and say like this one um this guy is playing the game for this reason because I think he is so invested in his own perspective and not really bringing other people into this expans of how he's seeing something so yeah like it was he won the best farmer he had extra make out time of Jen the men were like super mad something that was a austin created a vibe shift really interesting shift was Austin so Austin has been on the show he really likes Jen on the show cuz I just haven't really seen his connection to Jen I haven't seen him having a lot of connections and he starts to get really in his head this episode he does want to in a relationship with Jen but he was like I don't know if I could get there in terms of getting engaged to this person who I've had absolutely no time with I want to see her choose me the way that I'm choosing her every single week he didn't get the group date RS he didn't have a lot of time with Jen and he opens up to Jen and says it's not fair for me to be on the show it's not fair for you it's not fair for the other guys I'm just going to go so much of what he didn't say was I feel feel rejected I feel like I'm not being chosen by you I feel like you don't even like me so why am I here why am I putting myself out here I'm just going to go I think he withheld that vulnerability which makes sense because him and Jen haven't built this foundation so they could really feel open and honest with each other but oh boy does it send Jen into a spiral and then it kind of adds in all of her own projections about how she feels like she's not enough like she's not worthy to me it really Unearthed this authenticity and vulnerability in gen that we've been seeing but we haven't seen fully presented in such a clear way before what did you think about the Austin and Jen miscommunication that occurred it was a strange set of coincidences that opened up one of the most important insights I think in this entire season you know because I I you know I I think it was an accident because he just didn't reveal the full feedback of like why exactly he was leaving and that ambiguity like had her default to a specific wound that she has that she's had for a very long time probably from from childhood and through her past relationships which is am I not good enough am I worthless and it's a very common wound that many of us actually have that we tend to go through in our trauma healing and move past so I think that was maybe a happy unfortunate coincidence that it opened that up for her and she was in a space where she now had an opportunity to be vulnerable and say this is something that I am I'm actually really genuinely feeling right now and I need to like move through it and she just happens to be surrounded by a bunch of guys that like totally will help validate her and help her process it so it's like one after the other she has a gauntlet of people that are just boosting up her ego and helping her like you know move through it and change the narrative so man if there is like one opportunity to like bring out your skeletons in the closet and have it tended to and cared for that was it it's like back to back she had everything she needed she had bunch of handsome guys holding her holding space for her giving her validation making out with her it's like okay that's one way to heal heal wounded um and you know healing like this like it's a process it's not something that just like one evening of validation will change all that you know there's a lot of deeper forgiveness that she has to uh move through with whoever created those original wounds I'm I'm going to hypothesize it was probably from her parents um but I think having her recognize that and have this ability to express that in a safe space that's very powerful like really really powerful to me I think this was one of the most one of the most powerful authentic moments on the show and there are not a lot of authentic moments on the show unfortunately at least for me um so I I was I was very very happy to see that and see the way everybody operated with Integrity in that moment it was a perfect storm that needed to happen and that is one of the reasons why I felt Austin was such an amazing Catalyst to inspire that moment he broke the script of how the show was is kind of just moving through the episode of her just being like I'm the super confident bachelorette that everybody just wants and I feel so assured of myself when that's not it's true but it's not her entire story I think she was able to bring in aspects of herself that weren't true but needed to be soothed and reintegrated and Rewritten because Austin decided to say I'm not just going to go through the paces of this and get sent home when I can tell she doesn't really like me like she likes the other men we haven't gotten far enough yet and I want to be autonomous and how I'm choosing how this happens to me too so I he kind of created this new energy by him making the decision to say no which is why your no is so powerful it creates new energy from you deciding I'm not going to do something that doesn't honor me I'm just going to go home I don't need to wait for you to send me home and because he did that it made Jen interact with him differently I was a little bit surprised that she defaulted to that narrative so quickly it shows how much it was just so close to the surface for jenn’s feeling of unworthiness her if I was her I'd be like makes sense never gave up a date never gave him one1 I was going to send him home actually I'm just going to you know move on to my other connections and I feel like he made the right choice himself because it was so close to her and she felt like oh my God I'm doing a really bad job as a bachelorette I don't even feel like and this was a direct quote from her I do feel a future in this room and I also feel a future where I'm totally alone she really brought in this deeper truth that she was able to present to the men it was great that all of the men basically were holding her and they were just like no you're totally worthy you're totally enough and she's like thank you I really that really means a lot let me just yeah I think she got what um she needed in a moment and yeah you know I think you you call the S very clearly which is it's something that's so close to her it's it's a wound that is so deep and profound that it colors so much of her behavior and I I can understand her so much better now because you know I'd always been curious about her this season which it's like how come she's so much on the surface how come she's projecting an AR of something that it's like it's wonderful and nice but it seems like it's missing something real and this like help close or like complete the picture for me which is okay it's an overcompensation for this fear of not being worthy this fear of being worthless so she's compensating that by putting out this very confident bubbly warm kind thoughtful um persona but you know it's I think as she's able to heal that and let go of that that old belief system which is not true that'll allow her to temper a lot of this like very outward projection that I I can just kind of sense is it's not being fully authentic and you know listening to her say that and honestly it was it was very sad you know I just felt very bad for her it's like nobody ever should have to feel that belief which is your worthless because you as a human being are inherently worthy and you know to see how much she's putting out there was you know a little bit heartbreaking so I'm happy for her that she's able to touch that and see it and like get the support that she needs like I you know I think we're still very early in seeing her journey U moving through this but uh it's a good step I I totally agree and that was it was really beautiful to see her having these two conflicting self-images being presented to her how she has perceived herself based on experiences in her past and what she's experiencing right now which feels like a fairy tale being brought to life she is being put on a pedestal she is decked out in all of this jewelry all of these clothes all of these men are clamoring to get time and attention with her her ex flew across the world to be with her and part of it is because she's a bachelorette which makes it even more confusing to reconcile those two identities together because it's not a totally organic setting that is the trick of being on the show and being the lead going back to Matt he want to be a Jen or do he want to be a bachel right Jen who is now famous because of her being the lead do these men want to be with her or do they want to be with her because everybody else wants to be with her there's all of this it's a lot to parse through and I felt like for Jen what was the most important in this in that moment was she has this new self-image of I'm going to be really open about something I don't like being open about I don't like being open about the fact that I have these fears that if you really see me as I am you're not going to choose me you're not going to like me back hell you're abandoned me and for all of these guys to really show up and tell her that's not true those words are so deeply healing for her to experience because now the Unspeakable thing has been said out loud and and no one's running in fact she's feeling closer to them in fact it feels better than ever it's inspiring the men to show up for her in a way that she's never had before and you and I had spoken about that when we were watching the episode last night when she was opening up to all of these men during you know their one-on-one conversations I saw something in her face of like oh my gosh I've never experienced such a healthy relating before like a healthy conversation feeling validated feeling heard not being pushed the side not being gaslit not being manipulated all of these words that she's used to describe to past relationships so I yeah it did feel like that was a really pivotal moment and she even brought it up when she was like last night didn't go like how I wanted it went even better than I thought it would go yeah well you know I I love the way that you describe her situation in that it's this fantasy setting where she's got all of this stuff lined up to boost her ego and yet despite all of that she still feels this very um painful belief and I think it's a testament to the fact that no amount of external validation is going to give you that self-love it has to come from you um because they're throwing it at her and they're giving her everything you're helicopter rides in this pristine beautiful um Countryside and yeah to still believe that it has to come ultimately from her um I think that was a very profound lesson um in in in being able to witness that it reminds me of that quote wherever you go there you are you can never outrun yourself as far as you've met yourself and it doesn't really matter where in the world she is the kind of man on her arm she has to really believe in it and she has to really believe that she deserves this and by deserving it she has to have a deep relationship with herself this is all being created in real time and what I hope the best or what I really hope for her is that she is co-creating it most importantly with herself and then she can co-create it with somebody else when she feels really stabilized I do always feel a little bit worried when somebody creates their sense of self through the validation of somebody else or through their partner it has to come from you first and then when it comes from you it feels unshakable this truth so you can really stand up for yourself and your non-negotiables and what you need and not feel like you can kind of like waver depending on how your partner might be experiencing you and what they need so I there's so much happening of Jen and I felt like this was a very growth oriented episode one of the most auth authentic showings of who she was and the guys really showed up for her in a way that I enjoyed yep it's a far cry from the strip club I'll say that by the way if you watched this point in the video and you're not subscribed to your channel yet please hit that subscribe button we do this every single week and recap every single episode of The Bachelor The Bachelorette and so on so subscribe and follow along the next date that she goes on her last one-on-one with grant one inone is her date with Grant horseback riding it started to rain he used the opportunity to make this analogy of like it doesn't matter if it's raining if it's sunny I'm always going to be with you no matter what I accept relationships in all states uh he is really growing on me I've always liked Grant I haven't seen their connection so I wasn't able to truly root for him but he was able to be really open about his family and about his father and the addiction struggles that he had and how that really impacted him and how they're growing in their relationship and how he wants to be the kind of person that his father wasn't able to be for him and Jen has a history and a background in medicine so she was able to really relate to what Grant was going through and I think they had this conversation when they were really able to show up for each other I I like it him I I like him for her I think that what was kind of surprising or not too surprising but you know he confessed to the men not to Jen he was like hey guys I'm going to let you know I'm falling in love with J that felt impulsive I I what I imagine is like he his heart is just so um alive that he needed to express it to somebody and probably the least strategically intelligent move I would say in the house uh but you know I understand where he's coming from he's just like he's on Cloud9 um yeah because I'm not sure if there's a benefit to doing that because I think it would it obviously triggered a lot of the guys uh by saying that um but regarding the date you know I think I think it was very nice and very pleasant and I think it was great for them to be able to find this commonality in their childhood and the struggles that they have with dealing with parents that couldn't tend to them so they had to tend to their own needs like I can see how that commonality could bring them this new level of closeness I I think from my perspective I just I just personally have not seen enough of like what is like the nature of their full connection relationship you know I think they're having fun they're able to kiss and then they're talking about this like common trauma that they have but then what what else is there and I don't I have not seen that personally so it's hard for me to know whether there's something very deep there um but yeah overall he's he's a cool guy and seems to fit I don't have his favorite you know I'm just missing information I love that you're a man of substance I'm just like if any man is just kind of like meeting the bar for me and the bar is so long her season I'm like okay Jen get married date him but not even get married because that was another thing that you and I had spoken about last night I don't know if she's ready to get married and that kind of leads us into this next conversation which is the predictions of mid-season predictions the Season it had this midseason trailer that was super dramatic all of the guys were like I love you and she's like I don't feel like I am being chosen by some of these guys it was just a whiplash of all of these emotions all of these fears coming to the surface I don't think she's ready to be in a marriage of course she can decide whatever she wants this is just my speculation on the editing of the show she is learning so much about herself she is just really finding these healthy relationships as much as she can in this contrived artificial setting I don't know if you can get married from your first relationship when you're really experiencing your healing journey and she's kind of just on the first few steps it's a good path she is on the right path but how do you know who you want to be at the end of that path you're undergoing such a m massive transformation so not get married but date date the hell out of them completely agree uh and you know when you go through that kind of healing and transformation you have no idea who you are going to be one year from now let alone 10 years of from now let alone 30 years from now married to the same person uh that's a very challenging assumption to to make on both sides um because all of these men have their own Journeys to go through too you know like we're just getting small Snippets of their traumas and their Hang-Ups and their patterns that they have to work through as well I know and they're you know I think this entire batch they're they're quite young so yeah it'll be interesting to see how this plays out but you know the preview it sounds like she was saying that she's not ready to let the person propos to her which I didn't take as I don't want to be with you it's more like I just don't think I want to get married right now but let's explore something that that's kind of what I'm sensing will play out but who knows right what I'm hoping is that she there have been a few speculations that she might propose to the man I don't want her to do that I want her to just be like I'm not going to let you propose cuz I think we should just get to know each other in date it's not as exciting as getting the ring but it does feel more honest to where she's truly at in her journey what she really needs which is which is a really nice guy that would treat her well and will be there and ready for her she hasn't experience that of Matt like Matt only wanted to be with her after you know he saw where she was at these guys are getting to know her but I I really want somebody to show up for her in an honest way based on where she's at and that does in my perspective just me and a relationship where they just get to know each other a little bit better she's getting to know herself as as well so that's my hopeful prediction that she just is like I am let's just make it official but let's not get into a marriage by any way the word and one thing that I was bringing up last night as me and Jeremy were just watching the episode I don't know if I like her and Marcus together CU I just feel like he gives her so little and she takes it as so much I think she's really project ing a lot more substance than what he's actually providing and it really reminded me a lot of when I was younger when I was a young adult high school college I was really attracted to these mysterious men that would give me nothing they would just be so quiet and they just wouldn't talk to me and I would think oh my God I must unravel them there's something so much more profound than what's actually being presented and I fear that her being into somebody like Marcus is her kind of he is a better patterning of an emotional unavailable person but he is representing the seed of that attraction which is he's not really giving a lot he is quite quiet he is quite reserved he I think that because when he opens up it feels so much meaningful because she knows he doesn't do it often but I would really like to be I would like her to be with somebody like a grant like a Jonathan who is more forthcoming with it and can energetically meet her in this really optimistic uplifting Space versus Marcus where he just feels like he's brooding in the corner of his turtleneck you know yeah yeah I I I mean I think your Insight is brilliant you know I I I didn't even notice that until you called it out and you know it it speaks to probably the relationship that she might have had with her father which might have been just very distant and very disengaged because they're too busy dealing with a divorce and that pattern is kind of imprinted towards okay this is like the men that I'm going to gravitate to and like I have a little bit of something to achieve or prove by building a connection with that person there's something from that childhood trauma that might be playing out in in this particular situation um so yeah great call out I really like that Insight out of all of the guys Grant and Jonathan I I really really like them but it still doesn't feel quite as loaded as it does with Sam M and Devon Austin left and then she said well Marcus Sam M and Devon think I'm enough and I'm like why' you only call up those three the most do you talking yeah it's her top three you know it's the people that she's really she has this connection with so that kind of gave me a little bit of insight on how different the three of them all are uh especially Marcus Sam M and Devon are quite similar in some ways and that's why they're just kind of picking at each other constantly because they just I you know when something really bothers you about someone else and you just can't process it it's usually an unhealed aspect of who you are so they're just kind of mirroring each other just like I don't like you I don't like you and then Marcus is like to the corner just like I like how they had their like bro moment when Sam was kicking out Matt and de was like yeah that's right get out of here I know like look at that a c energy unites all it totally does if if Matt had joined the show I suspect that Devon and Sam M would have been best for us yeah it it was if romance interrupted the better because it would have been way too much to sh it would have been a toxic romance yeah very toxic it's exciting to see how Jen season was panning out we are super excited to see her progression as she taps into who she is she's already changed so much in the beginning of the season to where she's now I feel like she's better able to hold space for people she's able to have these deeper connections of all of these men I can't wait to see who she decides to choose hoping it's herself so maybe you know what I hope she ends up alone and happy with for you know and happy with that like alone and sad or alone and happy I think those are two different Pathways or it's like pick your trauma pattern like you know what's going to be is it is it is it totally yeah we's see we shall see cuz I do think there is something so beautiful when you're healing and you get to be single and have the opportunity to not be defined by another partnership unless I mean it and it is what it is because this is Jen she can totally choose what she wants she can get married she can be in a relationship she can propose to the person we will of course support her because this is her love story but I would just hope that she's like I'm not going to choose any of you guys and I'm just going to go back home I'm famous now I can just stay where I want that is the ultimate empowerment right there ultimate yeah um I would be cheering her on um for choosing that but you know I think any choice that she makes is part of the longer lesson and journey she's going to take and you know there's growth ahead and every single path so there's no totally there's no wrong answer on this one it's just life Jeremy thank you so much for joining me for this episode it's always so fun watching the show with you so I'm glad that we're getting to talk about it to the htfl audience my pleasure you make it fun honestly this would not be my thing if it weren't for you you and Kelly he hates reality TV by the way he just feels so bad not hate it's just not my thing oh my God I'll be like so mean and snarking next to him and he would just like have a tear in his eye like I can't believe the people are going through this you're too kind for the world Kelly will be back next week to join us for episode 6 thank you everybody for joining and we will see you guys soon bye [Applause] [Music] 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