Oscar Pistorius: The Murder Of Reeva Steenkamp

[Music] Valentine's Day 2013 Petoria South Africa early hours of the morning the sounds of four gunshots coupled with screaming ripples through the darkness of the city within the four walls of Oscar pastor's luxury silver Woods home a scene of complete and utter Devastation unfolds 29-year-old rever Steen Camp is struck by three of the four bullets fired into the bathroom door Hollow point and Now lies dying in the most brutal and abrupt of Fashions after having placed the gun down and making the call to Emergency Services Oscar remains frantic and in an apparent State of Shock and despite being soaked in the blood of his girlfriend he will go on to plead not guilty in a global debate surrounding intent the focus area of the investigation immediately becomes a balancing act between the how and why elements of the case how did not know it was his girlfriend behind the bathroom door and why did Oscar fire the bullets it's been a very hard journey and it's going to go on till the day that I die on my deathbed that hurt never goes away and it's such a loss to society because she would have done so much she was so brilliantly clever apart from beautiful she was very intelligent she had a LW degree she would have made big bookmark in the world definitely and I feel that sad that that was taken away from her she will never have a baby she will never have a wedding she will never have her wedding dress which all girls dream of and they took away that work that she did to build her place in life [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] hello and welcome to I could murderer podcast we are back once again with a huge case and I'm joined of course by little Ben hello good to be here good to be back with another episode we are storming through this series episode five wow how we doing Dan uh very good yeah fifth gear cruising down the highway of True Crime I suppose I'm really looking forward to this case I remember it being for me a bit of an open shut one um but a lot of people think otherwise oh yeah this is a very interesting one it falls into the strange C grou of celebrity uh crime you know huge Sportsman crime there's which they'd be surprisingly quite a few out there uh we haven't covered a great deal but it's a very fascinating case it does split opinion and obviously we'll be discussing our thoughts on it and we want to hear what you guys think as well so let us know in the comments below it's yeah of course it is Oscar pastoris the murder of Ras Steen Camp yeah it's a it's a fascinating one I feel like I've said this before but I remember back in the day watching this trial live on Sky News with my parents who were very biased with their verdict um and I feel like that that kind of made my mind up for me as well very easily manipulated what was their opin re was go what was their opinion Ben like most of the YouTube comments I've seen on anything out there they were overwhelmingly in the Oscar is guilty party and guilty of murder not culpable homicide yeah well we won't give away what we think quite yet we'll be discussing through it discussing all the different sides of the case and different theories that go along with it but yes as I said love to hear what you guys think so let us know in the comments below what you guys think the verdict should have been so this week it is a of course the Oscar Pistorius case also referred to as the murder of Rivas Steen Camp the case that divided South Africa the trial of Oscar Pistorius the state versus Oscar Pistorius the case against the Blade Runner and producer Dan makes music with Harry Potter's bladder uh from the from the cryptic clue last week um yeah few few people probably got that I would hope hopefully was it the bladder yeah for the piss I thought it was just okay yeah pisor yes I just thought it was Harry doing some kind of know it for bladder specific but there you go yeah I needed to get piss in there keep a lot of sound few no um but yeah for those that don't know producer damic music Oscar corny Dan's Band uh and uh Harry Potter's bladder pistor Oscar filipus yeah composer I reckon I could do that it would slap actually if I made a track out of Harry Potter's bladder yep y yeah easily manipulated very that's one your better ones I think people would have got that one yeah I mean at the time of recording episode one has just gone live and a few people have already got the cryptic clue for episode two um so they're getting them there are some people that think like me Tom which I don't know how you feel about that I don't know if they think like you or they put put themselves in that place and that dark place um maybe a few tins um lack of sleep and just there like okay I can see like Ben but who knows um but well done if you did get it um and yeah we'll continue with it we got another we've got another cryptic clue at the end of the case Ben not only have we got a cryptic clue Tom I've got something to share with the world on our three's opinions on various guilty not- guilty trial and it makes for if we run the world girls it makes for some um very eye openening stats um we're very agreeable in some cases but we're very divided in others so I'm fascinated to see what you boys think of this one stay tuned for that guys but let's get into today's case Valentine's Day February 14th 2013 in the early hours unable to sleep during the heat of a South African Summer Night paralympic athlete and Global celebrity Oscar borus gets out of bed and makes his way towards his balcony in order to bring a fan into the bedroom and Ben's asked me to specify that it's not a fan of his work that's a fan that will cool him down his girlfriend of three months model and reality star Rea Ste Camp remained in bed sleeping and allegedly woke up for a few seconds to ask him are you having trouble sleeping whilst out on the balcony Oscar believes he can hear noises coming from his bathroom which is just two doors adjacent to his bedroom he comes back inside the complete darkness of his bedroom closing his sliding doors blinds and curtains and walks towards his bed from which he pulls out a 9mm Parabellum pistol it's believed that at this point he informs Reaver to call the police as Oscar walks towards his bathroom he begins screaming towards the perceived Intruders get out of my house as he arrives in the bathroom he notices that the window is wide open and that the internal toilet door appears to be locked upon the moment that he heard movements from within the toilet he quickly fired four shots into the toilet door he continues to scream to Reaver to call the police but his screams are not met with any response a feeling of complete horror rushes through Oscar's body and his breathing becomes frantic Oscar rushes back to the bedroom and soon notices that there is nobody sleeping in his bed he hurriedly switches on the lights puts on his prosthetic legs and rushes back towards the bathroom screaming out reever's name all the while eventually he is able to smash the locked toilet door open with a cricket bat after failing to kick it down revealing the incredibly gruesome sight of his girlfriend having been struck by three of the four bullets all of which were hollow point and once described as zombie Stoppers by the very man that fired the gun once in the right hip once in her right arm and once through her left hand into her skull riva's Blood and Tissue had been forced all over the toilet walls and floor and Oscar began to cradle her as she Lay Dying he then carried her downstairs where he attempted to revive her but she died in his arms shortly afterwards these are the exact series of events that Oscar pistor remained adamant led to the death of R Steen Camp he believed he was shooting an intruder and protecting his girlfriend in the process this was initially far more difficult to believe than the idea that Oscar had murdered his girlfriend at a rage Riva who had a passion for helping victims of domestic abuse in her personal time had perhaps become a victim herself very few people believed him a great number of people doubted him and a huge amount of negative stories started coming out about his previous questionable behaviors including issues around jealousy quickness to anger The Reckless discharge of numerous weapons and a potential brain injury but why were all of these stories not brought to life sooner and was there anything in his background that could explain why such poor decisions were made Oscar Leonard car Pistorius was born on the 22nd of November 1986 in the district of santon in Johannesburg South Africa right off the bat do you want to know this was a struggle but do you want to know a little interesting fact about Johannesburg of course there we go play the jingle oh oh yeah Ben Carter's interesting facts interesting [Music] facts very easily manipulated very easily manipul so uh Johannesburg guys welcome back welcome back U Johannesburg sometimes referred to as joerg Joy's or Josie um it's the largest city in the world built without a Coastline lake or river earning its nickname dry Port M it has a metro area of 10 million people with no major rivers or lakes making it probably the largest city in the world without a large water source is that fre word in your last your last sentence just getting it back out there it's also been called eoli which is Zulu for City of Gold um due to it once providing more than 40% of the world's annual gold production so dry and gold me and Tom both looked for celebs from Joe Berg and it was a it was a struggle it wasn't very light I think yeah say a lot of um Heroes that were heavily involved in the apartheid political scene but yeah nothing that was you know some light relief but Ben just to clarify there's not a large body of water there yeah uh for a third time yeah no lakes rivers and certainly not a coastline so if you're fishing don't go there back to Oscar don't say back to Oscar like that so what we're going to do with Oscar's background is obviously had a very decorated sporting career we're going to focus more so on elements that we feel um you know influenced his life you know his struggles his rise to success um dealing with celebrity as well as the the the riches and the challenges that came with that so Oscar was the second of three children born to Hank and Sheila Pistorius having a younger sister called Amy and an older brother called Carl the borus family were extremely wealthy and lived a relatively comfortable Life as a result of numerous different Enterprises is launched by previous generations of their family so yeah this is quite interesting more interesting than the dryness of the area I would say um so though there are some articles that state the Pistorius family owned more than a hundred different companies predominantly the the family's Fortune uh came from Oscar's grandfather hendrik uh and he founded H Pistorius and Co a company that mins processes and distributes Agricultural and Industrial Limestone I've seen a lot of clips of that on on Facebook people doing Limestone have you yeah what just digging it up and shiing it about or making Diamond blades and then having to spray water on it so the blades don't over get too hot and then they're looking at and I'm like that's beautiful I'm no this is [ __ ] we can find better ones and I'm like oh so they you could sucker me in to get some of that Limestone fascinating stuff what's that is it Australian Gold Diggers Australian there's a show that my dad absolutely loves and I watched it once and I was similar to you when things they pull out and I'm like oh hon those kind of shows dead as catch Ice Road Truckers somehow they sucking me in I'm like yeah that is a skiddy road yeah and so from the wealth accumulated here Oscar's Uncle Arnold uh was able to set up his own uh property development companies apparently a very prominent businessman in South Africa and this company owns and lets out numerous commercial buildings Residential Properties shopping malls and private game reserves and very interestingly as well interesting family should have just stuck with a interesting rather than the dry River that's all right Le we move we move but Oscar's Aunt Mickey Pistorius is one of South Africa's leading murder experts having previously worked as a criminal profiler forensic psychologist and investigative writer that's an awkward Christmas dinner isn't it it is now yeah so Hank and Sheila raised their family with traditional Christian values in an affluent Suburban neighborhood when Oscar was born he was diagnosed with fibula hemimelia uh which is Essen having zero or or incredibly shortened fibula bone in the legs uh and apparently yeah Oscar was born without any bone at all of the fibula variety um if not true if not doctor no no no straight to work when straight to work um fcking hell if not treated correctly or in severe cases this can lead to lifelong knee and Ankle problems potentially resulting in immobility as well as this both of Oscar's feet were deformed form Med as a result the family made the decision obviously together with the advice of numerous clinicians and experts to amputate both of Oscar's legs halfway between his knee and his ankle when he was just 11 months old 6 months later he was given his first pair of Prosthetics to replace the amputated portion though this uh incident itself would be something that Oscar and his family refused to allow to impact or hinder their lives whatsoever in fact it was a pastorious family rule that nobody in their household could ever say the words I can't Oscar would later write in his autobiography I believe that it was at this time in my life that my personality was shaped and that my family was instrumental in laying the foundation stones of my competitive nature and of the man that I am today as youngsters Oscar and his siblings were Incredibly Close they would constantly play out and explore different parts of the hometown together with their many friends in the area he described himself and his brother Carl as Adrenaline Junkies from the moment we were born the pair would regularly ride bikes around local parks and would also try and find the steepest hill from the to ride their go-karts down despite the go-karts having no breaks on one occasion Oscar recalled that he was heading towards a number of parked cars at a great speed so his brother pulled off one of his prosthetic legs and pushed it into the wheels to bring the go-kart to a stop which is that's Mya level that is quick thinking very quick thinking as he Grew Older his Prosthetics became more advanced and was provided with a pair that were fitted with light gross skin meaning that he would wear them and roll the skin over his upper leg making the stumps in his words invisible when he was 9 years old Oscar got into his first fight this was with another boy in his neighborhood who was friends with a girl that he liked Oscar was badly beaten by the other boy who apparently did not want to fight when he returned home after beating his father did not offer him sympathy or show any signs of concern he together with his grandfather took the 9-year-old to a gym and tore him out a box that's interesting isn't it I mean you hear a lot about parin go and make bring them back out and making them fight but I don't mind that in terms of like just teaching your son how to defend himself and going going to the boxing gym so he feels a bit more safe so the issue I see is wanting to fight someone because they're with a girl you like that's that's probably the the bigger question mark I've got there you shouldn't do that then no you shouldn't you shouldn't stop them trying Oscar attended Constantia CL primary school before going on to attend Petoria boys high school at both schools he fell completely in love with all forms of sport a family friend and design engineer Chris hatting provided the family with much lighter Prosthetics which enabled him to move faster he played rugby for the school team and also played water polo and Tennis at a high level as well as this he joined a club that focused on preparing for Olympic wrestling where he was also considered to be highly skilled he picked everything up quickly and was capable at each sport within a matter of weeks he also started riding mini motorbikes petrol go-karts and even his older brother's car before he'd even turned 14 there's a lot of stuff out there on children that went to school with him or people that played in the same sports teams went to the same gyms and all of them said the same thing they had no idea that he was wearing Prosthetics they said he was so proficient at each sport that he picked up so strong and so quick that it was a real shock to them it took them several months to realize that actually he's wearing Prosthetics and yeah he's clearly very much an athlete from an early age here over the next several years a series of three life-changing events occurred that drastically impacted Oscar's mood and Views firstly Oscar's parents filed for divorce and he and his siblings had to move into a smaller home with his mother as a result to try and ease the pain Oscar's father purchased his older brother a speedboat in which the boys would regularly go out on and water ski from the back of perhaps this was a way of keeping in regular contact with his sons whom he preferred to keep living in the smaller home with their mother the second occurred just a few years later sadly when Oscar was 15 his mother Sheila passed away after suffering from an adverse reaction to a medication she had been taking upon being wrongly done diagnosed with Hepatitis which yeah that is well obviously tragic and terrible but how does someone is that an easy mistake to make that is that an easy misdiagnosis I honestly have no idea but surely if that's happening you're going to be taking the hospital to court about that surely yeah that's yeah terrible this moment absolutely devastated the family but especially Oscar who idolized his mother he was incredibly close with her and viewed her as one of his key motivations in life apparently his mother always went the extra mile to support him and make him feel no different from anybody else regularly leaving him motivational notes in his lunchbox and often fighting for her son's inclusion whenever he was advised not to participate due to his disability on school mornings Oscar would recall that she would yell up the stairs school time Carl put on your shoes Oscar put on your legs I mean it works she sounds lovely I'll do that properly school time kle put on your shoes Oscar put on your legs K will have school shoes you think Oscar has school legs well he said yeah he said in an interview he just he never viewed himself as having a disability he just viewed himself as having different shoes that's I think that's a really nice way to look at it and it so yeah certainly didn't hold him back from anything in in in the sporting Endeavors Oscar recalled the profound impact that his mother's death had on him and from here he would throw himself into his love of sports as a means of Escape sport was my salvation as it helped me get through this difficult time my mother had been a strong woman the center of my world sporting activity was the only thing that could distract me from such a loss a year after his mother passed away the third and final blow occurred Oscar who had been used in sport as an escape completely shattered his knee whilst playing rugby his recovery was slow he was confined to a bed in crutches for a number of months and his overall mood and defiant Spirit gradually darkened towards the end of his Rehabilitation he was recommended to try sprinting in order to help the knee joint recover he was invited to America by family friend Chris haton in order to try out a new prosthetic the flex foot cheatah blades just 3 weeks after trying them out Oscar entered his first 100 met race and unbelievably he won the race in a Time faster than any double UT had achieved before [Music] 11.72% for people listening to audio B touched his nose and said that and hit the microphone on the way sorry from here Oscar was launched into stardom 8 months later he represented his country in the 2004 par Olympics at Athens winning his first gold medal in the 200 meter sprint he was so fast that he also started racing against non-disabled athletes once coming second in a 400 meter sprint at the golden Gala in Italy he drew in hundreds of thousands ofers across the world broke dozens of records and earned numerous medals and accolades along the way also earning the nicknames Blade Runner Tink Tink and the fastest man on no legs Tink Tink yeah do we know the background behind that I don't I can explain Blade Runner and I can explain the fastest man on no legs but Tink sounds angry his little fairy tin the noise that road runner makes oh is it Dan uh just a guess you know Road Runner Wy coyote D is it no cuz fast he's fast Road Runner yeah he is yeah he is thanky it's probably one of those should I check doesn't really matter Dan was right Pistorius was dubbed the nickname Tink Tink undoubtedly due to the abnormal noise he makes as he runs and he took it on as a nickname apparently I thought maybe it could also be the amount races he win in the champagne glasses Tink Tink cheers that's also cool yeah pretty cool that be really imagine that his motto became you're not disabled by the disabilities you have you are able by the abilities you have I really admire how his parents raised him in the fact that you know you can do anything you can achieve anything and they you know more than happy doing sports never were like rapping up in cotton ball I think that was really positive and he's obviously kind of grown up with that and he's gone on to you know achieve great things because of that attitude yeah I mean not to focus on it for too long but I mean his him taking to running that effectiv that quickly is it doesn't happen it would take years for him to get that speed down and his first go exactly it's it's wild yeah coote from all of his achievements Oscar earned a small fortune as a result of media appearances and sponsorships he bought himself a luxury four-bedroom home in the gated community of silver Woods states he was cherished by his country and was considered a hero all over the world despite this some crap started to appear in the way he conducted himself some people began to question whether or not Oscar's new carbon fiber Prosthetics gave him a competitive advantage over other athletes he was also accused of favoring the Olympics over the Paralympics due to his repeated attempts to qualify and to be evolved in the Olympics on the controversy he said I'm not a par Olympic Athlete nor an Olympic Athlete I am simply an athlete and a sprinter so what do you guys think about that cuz obviously some people believe that the Prosthetics gave him an extra like spring to his run in and some people think it wasn't an advantage at all if anything was the disadvantage I remember watching the documentaries about this I didn't really know that part of the story really that he obviously it's not overly relevant to they what something to happen but I didn't know he was petitioning to race against able-bodied people I remember the interview with the guy that invented the carbon fiber versions The cheaters and um he was very passionate about cuz they said it gives him an extra bit of leg span and also an extra spring but he was like I I challenge anybody to show that this gives an advantage it doesn't have any spring in fact it makes it harder um and they measured it to show that this was in line with his what would have been his typical height um in line with his arm span to leg span ratio I don't know I don't feel that he he should have been held back I'm I I think the crossover happens a lot more than that it's not a completely unusual thing to happen so I I feel like he should have been allowed to compete but I know that this him gravitating more towards the Olympics at this time really he a lot of his fans thought he was kind of stepping away from the paralympic events uh as a result of this which got you know caused some controversy and he wasn't very happy with that thought that it was just more of him flying the flag that you know that they can compete and it's like they should be regarded you know it shouldn't be separate I would have thought it' be like a positive thing yeah I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure it just seemed to be that he was very obviously he was very passionate about wanting to to race in the Olympics as well and I can completely understand that and I just think maybe there were some moments where he maybe didn't speak in the best most fond way of the par Olympics in comparison but I yeah personally unless it's not giving a clear Advantage I don't understand why why that would be a thing to not allow him to do I was just Googling cuz surely is measurable cuz in theory it's going to take longer to kind of come back with the you I mean CU it has to go down and up in order to go I can see why like it' be it's obvious it must be harder to run on that rather like it looks like as well the court of our arbitration uh carried out some research and ruled that his Prosthetics uh weren't showed to provide a net competitive advantage over biological Le yeah so in that way then it should yeah I'm don't see a problem in that in him racing if he can beat other people and it's proved not to be easier than some close to him also noticed changes in his attitude and observed a grow in ego in 2011 Oscar stormed out of a BBC interview when he was questioned about taking part in non-disabled athletics he had numerous short-term relationships with women that ended badly according to gossip magazines of the time he also had numerous very public heated exchanges with fellow athletes after a number of races whilst it was rumored that many athletes would get change in different changing rooms at Olympic Villages because Oscar was always screaming down the phone at his agent Sports journalist Graeme Joff recalled his impression of Oscar during this time he had become a different man to the one I had interviewed so many times before in the sense that he was a bit standoffish a little bit cold not his usual warm self these new behaviors were big red flags for me and I was quite surprised that no one in the media or his management team condemned it publicly he was showing the spoiled brat attitude that came out a year later at the 2012 par Olympics when he embarrassed the country so this yeah this embarrassment that that Joff is referring to was uh uh a very public exchange that he had with um another uh paralympic runner Oliva who had like a long-standing rivalry with uh with Pistorius and apparently came out and did a press you know TV interview and said that Olivera was running on blades that were too long so basically challenged the uh The credibility of the race um and just had a he didn't like losing very thing that came I mean he didn't lose very often at all but yeah really didn't take kindly to being beaten by Oliva in that in that particular race as well as this there were numerous questionable behaviors not reported by South African journalists during the height of Oscar's Fame he got into numerous altercations at various nightclubs and restaurants and he once fired his gun through the sunroof of an ex-girlfriend's car shortly after he was stopped and warned for speeding also firing the very same gun that allegedly went off in a restaurant so he was he was at this restaurant with another I think it was like quite a celebrity boxer who handed Oscar the gun under the table and apparently as he went to put it in his pocket it discharged and shot to the floor ricocheting and going into the boxer's girlfriend's toe um which is yeah not very not very nice at all but yeah very sh for the toe and Oscars to blame you've gave N I got anything works though does work sh through the toe to blame he give guns a f they already pretty bad anyway so yeah his behavior here I he feel like he feels he's perhaps slightly above the law he's got good coming in he's got a very good reputation you know he's he's admired by hundreds of thousands and um yeah starting to get to his head a little bit here he was also and this is this is a big bit he was also captaining a speedboat during which an accident occurred that resulted in him needing to be airlifted to hospital and almost killing several other people from this he had to have extensive surgery on his face I think there was some bone reconstruction and there is a possibility that there was also some trauma to the brain so there's there's there's a lot of speculation online that from here he he' obviously suffered a brain injury there were notable changes in his personality um there was a great deal of alcohol um found on the boat as well so there's a possibility that he was drunk um drunk sailing is that the drunk drunk sailing can you drink while you sail the boat no yeah that's think there's any kind of for of Transport Le riding a bike you know obviously not supposed to drink so any kind of Transport I don't think you can get away with it what about those little scooters that you're scanning it's that's a m it's not strictly illegal to consume alcohol on a boat yeah but driving a boat even sorry really but but sailing it or there is no formal offense of Drunk In Charge that seems Seems Madness to me yeah yeah that's crazy well it didn't stop what's his name scatino Costa Concordia he'd had a few but that's yeah I mean the picture of the crime scene there's lots of sort of smof IES and something I spotted that looked quite interesting brutal frutal or Brut brutal fruits a little bottle of brutal fruits which is alcoholic fruity drink I'm assuming I imagine yeah yeah but um yeah from here this is what cuz it's not picked up on a lot of other uh podcasts and documentaries I listen to about this this case from here a lot of his close friends even the guy that helped uh to write his autobiography noticed a real change in Oscar and this incident itself wasn't High publicized it was kept quite quiet I think you know again there are a lot of accusations of hush money being thrown about here but people noticing a lot of changes in his personality and yeah from here this might have made him more paranoid uh potentially uh more aggressive yeah this for me is where the big change seems to occur Giani Merlo who helped to co-write Oscar's autobiography had spent a great deal of time with him during both his personal and professional life he said the following of Oscar he could get very Furious suddenly he spoke of a fire inside he had tough arguments with girls and afterwards sweet reconciliation that mean does that mean shagging sweet reconciliation baby and afterwards sweet sweet sex he has always had very beautiful girlfriends I never saw The Temper but sometimes there were situations where it was apparent sometimes he can explode but I've always seen the bright part of the Moon I've never seen the dark part that's a that's a lovely little mle right part the never seen the dark part I say the dark side but still nice sure yeah yeah you're right portion huh portion of the Moon depending on the eclipse that's less poetic yeah that portion of the Moon never saw that so despite all of this turmoil Oscar depending on who you believe found some peace in his life in November of 2012 and this was when he was introduced by a mutual friend to law graduate model and reality TV star rava steam Camp Oscar immediately became infatuated with Riva who had agreed to accompany him to an award ceremony when he told her that he did not have a date from here a romance blossomed and Riva regularly began staying at Oscar's home again depending on which side you believe there are arguments that this relationship was turbulent and highly erratic other friends of the couple suggested that the pair were completely happy and completely in love with one another sadly the relationship would only last for 3 months and it is here that we mve to the time Tim line of the case against Oscar Pistorius the murder of Riva Steen Camp so with the timeline what we're going to do is similar to the the start of the episode we are going to go through the version of events as put forward by Oscars affidavit and then what we'll do is pick that apart via the prosecution at the trial as well as our own opinions so a lot of what you're about to hear is actually what Oscar claimed in his own words had happened uh so it's going to be yeah interesting to know cuz we still don't know what each other believed the outcome of this trial to be do we are verdict yeah I I also watched the series which has some Sim similarities to this um called Presumed Innocent with Jake Gyllenhaal oh definitely worth a watch in apple series and it yeah it fleets between who you think done it and reasons behind it and the kind of relationship which has gone bad and sour or was it happy as they try and claim it to be but you're only hear in one person's perspective so yeah I do recommend it is just definitely strike in some similarities in this I've never seen anything that he's been bad in Jake Gyllenhaal Jake's a good egg yeah I can agree with that there's not he's he's a very very solid actor there you go Wednesday February 13th 2013 the night prior to the murder Oscar States the following Riva had gone out with her friends and I was with my friends during the day Rea then called me and asked if we could spend the evening at home I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home by 10: p.m. we were in our bedroom she was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television my prosthetic legs were off we were deeply in love and I could not be happier I know that she felt the same way she had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me to only open it the next day after Riva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep I'm acutely aware of violent crime being committed by Intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime including violent crime I've received death threats before I've also been a victim of violence and burglaries before for that reason I kept my firearm a 9mm Parabellum underneath my bed when I go to bed at night just worth noting um that in South Africa there's more gun crime than there is in America yeah which I was stapped that I was quite surprised to hear although either he's very paranoid he has been burgled before you can understand um him being worried and concerned about it but he does seem to be next level um and paranoia is creeping in and we'll go into some of that what he says about um his worries and the need of having weapons later on but yeah I was quite surprised by South Africa being um a higher gun gun crime be more people killed with by guns in America yeah it's uh yeah there are some mad stats coming up shortly as well as that a note to note worth making is that on the 27th of November 2012 which was roughly around the time that Riva and Oscar first started dating Oscar posted the following tweet which actually makes for pretty morbid and shocking reading giving what is about to come he tweeted the following nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking it's an intruder to go into full combat Recon mode into the pantry wow yeah it's I know what people I like to find that like you know especially linger to the case but it's just it's a light like doesn't mean he definitely got all of guns out was like walking around his house because of the washing machine but yeah yeah I don't know I think I think yeah as Tom said it's easy to dig that up and go oh look look at what he's you know but I think he's trying to be also quite funny here yeah I think yeah that's what I think he's being light about it and like he probably was that noise sounds a bit weird and was a bit creeped out so as as Tom mentioned there are some fairly shocking stats around crime in South Africa and especially Petoria for the time so during 2013 alone South Africa's murder rate increased from an average of 45 murders per day to 47 murders per day um which is just so yeah I mean to put that into context there were over 177,000 murders that year in South Africa alone and as as Tom mentioned the stat in comparison to America is quite staggering as well so South Africa as a country had and has maintained one of the highest crime rates of any country in the world and despite it only being a fifth of the size in terms of population compared to America South Africa has four times as many gun related homicides per year when compared to the US which I find that really is incredibly bad if I ask you boys what how many recorded homicide offenses in England and Wales uh last year do you believe there was in total yeah it's a fun game play it home I'd guess around 75 I feel like it's going to be low but I yeah I think it's going to be higher than that uh higher 250 583 oh wow in 2002 there was 1,000 so yeah it's uh maybe maybe there isn't a sh it's it's that's higher than I expected obviously I I'm going I was literally just thinking of news stories of last year you don't think about all the ones that are just not reported on and oh yeah but there 17,000 M it that year yeah yeah obviously England is Tiny compared to South Africa so many people in South Africa who do have the money to do so live in gated communities some of which are even fitted with electric fence perimeters armed robberies home invasions burglaries there's that word ransacking were a daily occurrence in almost every major city and town in the country so together with his wealth and celebrity these statistics alone and the area that Oscar was living in although he was in a gated community and again going back to this trauma sustained in the boating accident made Oscar increasingly more paranoid so as a result he also purchased a home in Italy and was planning on purchasing other properties overseas and I mentioned yeah obviously the the The Haunting tweets the final tweet from rever Steen Camp came almost exactly 24 hours before she was murdered and it read as follows what do you have up your sleeve For Your Love tomorrow # get excited #v Valentine's Day February 14th 2013 and this is the morning of the murder and and again in Oscar's words during the early morning hours I woke up went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and Clos the sliding doors the blinds and the curtains I heard a noise coming from the bathroom and realized that someone was in the bathroom I felt a sense of Terror rushing over me there were no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that the contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have Mobility on my stumps to walk I believe that someone had entered my house I was too scared to switch a light on I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed on my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect of him them to get out of my house and for Riva to phone the police it was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reaver was in bed I noticed that the bathroom window was open I realized that the Intruder was or The Intruders were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom I heard movement inside the toilet the toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door it filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or Intruders being inside the toilet I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window as I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable I knew I had to protect rava and myself I believed that when The Intruders came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited Mobility on my stumps this is the first part of where some of the criticism of his story of events um occurs he's not had any acknowledgement from Reaver when he's you know whispered or shouted to her call the police he's heard nothing back it's complete darkness in there so he can't see whether or not there's someone in in in the bedroom according to him um and he's made his way to the bathroom open the bathroom door the toilet itself is kind of blocked in the corner with one wooden door at the front of it and he's seen an open window which again it said it was a hot night it could have been left open by anyone or opened up for by anyone as well he's immediately saying he's from this point onward feared for their lives and but he did say that she woke up and asked him you're having trouble sleeping around that time yeah so like my point of view here is if I hear someone's in the toilet and there two there's me and someone else in the house I immediately assume that's going to be the other person in the house I also think if someone's trying to rob my house especially if they got coming into my house with a gun in order to steal things you're not hiding in the toilet yeah I'm not going to find a lot in there no so I understand the you know we talk about before we're going to go into more about the paranoia and how he felt and he was always kind of a bit anxious and on edge about things but the idea of not checking or not doing any form of like sentence check or the fact that you haven't had anything back I find it um extremely odd I mean even just to call the name it sounds awful but call you know towards the door is that Reaver are you in there is that you yeah if it's not you know obviously not her and they come out it would lead to the same outcome as what happens presumably but you'd still say is that you are you in there yeah if you're a little bit freaked out which he doesn't or you give them an opportunity to get the the opportunity to reply so yeah I think um cuz I yeah yeah cuz I think the first time I heard it I was kind like okay well you can kind of understand that like you've heard something you're you're on edge you you're shocked sometimes you wake up out of nowhere you can be a bit like not with it but the more I think about it it's just yeah it just seems completely I was I was like you uh when this first start when this first came out is that if you take the gun away from the situation you can kind of understand in a moment of panic kicking the door down and trying to get the Intruder out but the fact that you've got a gun involved is you can't be Trigger Happy in that situation no unless you check first yeah I think as well obviously we've gone through the stats we we are all quite lucky in that we don't live anywhere where there are high crime rates and we are lucky not you know to live in a country where there's an extensively high amount of gun crime but for me if there's one room I'd want if if I imagine my house was getting burgled if there's one room that I'd like to try and confin them to where there's low value it would be the bathroom cuz I can I mean annoyingly my door opens from the inside so they' get out quite easy I couldn't block them in but I believe that door opened outwardly and but then again he's he's Mobile on mobile on his stumps but maybe not to the effect that he could quickly you know push something in front of the door to try and block them in but that for me would be a excellent result burglar trapped in the bathroom call police boom yeah yeah I mean the the last portal call in this situation would be using the gun and there's no evidence that he said even that he feels that they have a gun that he feels that you know there he's in immediate danger even though cuz he's saying he feels like he's in grave danger cuz someone's in his toilet so yeah um and obviously we'll go on to it but there there's been lots of speculation whether or not he was on his stumps or if he was um actually already wearing his legs as well at this point yes y Oscar continues I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Rea to phone the police she did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance everything was pitched dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light revera was not responding when I reached the bed I realized that rava was not in bed that is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reva who was in the toilet I returned to the bathroom calling her name I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help that's another thing which again you never know unless you're in the situation how you're going to act but is your first what call a scream to neighbors for help or it's going to be C you make a phone call M the only thing for me that paints him in the light here which I I go if you're in a moment of absolute like anger and you know he's he's committed this murder the fact is he's quite calmly well not calmly he's thought of an alibi and he's called the the police and the neighbors and everything like that rather than trying to hide the body or dispos of the body but yeah or even make it look like more of a stage to break in he's not gone for any he's immediately if if the timeline is believe to believe from when neighbors claimed to hear screaming and shots fired to then him going out going out and screaming for help it's almost immediate that he goes out and screams for help um which is I suppose in his favor the other thing that I noticed which I would love to know your thoughts on this because for me to go back to the idea that let's say that none of what Oscar has just said is true and they had a heated argument and she locked herself in the in the toilet to get away from him and make herself safe one thing I noticed is where the bullets were fired all four of them are quite close to the door handle as if in trying to maybe get the door handle off or open so you can just get in they're not like say you were trying to if I this is awful to say if I thought someone was either sitting on the toilet or behind the door I would my shots would have been much more Central if I was if it was a good shot I just noticed they are quite close to the door handle as if she's gone in there after an argument locked herself in and he's he's not trying to hit her with the gun with the bullets he's trying to open the door if that the case he's a very bad shot I also would go you know I also would be using an item to smash down the door which he does yeah does go on to do do he but In the Heat of the Moment what I'm thinking is perhaps that's the image there yeah maybe it's not as close to the door handle as I remember I mean they are heading towards the the door handle but guess so z a bit drunk but well Drunk on Love Oscar continues I put on my prosthetic legs and ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open I think I must then have turned on the house lights I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my Cricut back to bash open the toilet door a panel or a couple of panels broke off the door and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door Riva was slumped over but alive I battled to get her out the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom I phoned Johan Stander who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance I also found net care and asked for help I went downstairs to open the front door so yeah just a note note to make here net care are a company with numerous hospitals and Emergency Services across South Africa but predominantly in ptor I returned to the bathroom and picked raver up as I've been told not to wait for the paramedics but to take her to hospital I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital on my way down Stander arrived a doctor who lives in the complex also arrived downstairs I tried to render the assistance to rer that I could but she died in my arms I am absolutely mortified by the events and the devastating loss of my beloved reava with the benefit of hindsight I believe that Riva went to the toilet when I went out to the balcony to bring the fan in I cannot bear to think of the suffering I've caused her and her family knowing how much she was loved I also know that the events of that tragic night were as I've described them and that in due course I have no doubt the police and expert investigators will bear this out so yeah that was a a heavy portion of his affidavit there are quite a few things to challenge throughout which we're going to explain as the prosecution did but as well as a lot of opinions out there are on the case so at approximately 3:00 a.m. some neighbors could hear screaming and gunshots coming from the property uh one quite direct neighbor a radiologist by the name of Johan stip came to the property following calls for help and he claimed that he walked in and as he opened the door of the property he he observed Oscar praying over raver's dead body he said that the first thing Oscar said to him when he realized that help had arrived was I shot her I thought she was a burglar I shot her and at 3:18 a.m. this is when the phone calls were made to Johan Stander uh the manager of the luxury estate so Stander claimed that Oscar said the following to him during the call please please come to my house I shot Reaver I thought she was an intruder please please come quick Stander went to the property together with his daughter and the witnessed rava deceased in Oscar's arms and Stander recall the following he was broken he was screaming he was crying he was praying I saw the truth that morning I also think it's strange I like he's so open to saying he shot her like obviously that's his story and that's his like but he seems panicked and not and not trying to hide anything but yeah that's the only thing in the back of my head it's been like a moment of absolute the misjudgment I don't know obviously I won't give my complete verdict away but this case my mind has changed so many times so many times and I know there seems to be an overwhelming opinion that he is guilty one thing I think is if if he committed murder with premeditation and completely intended on doing this he's made that decision right then and there it perhaps as a result of an argument but it's a very quick sort of story to say Oh I thought it was an intruder it was an accident this and that there are other things that do lend itself to the Intruder story being perhaps legit or at least in his mind it's just such a strange case there's so many elements here that I I just can't understand why he's reacted like that why they've not had a a vocal exchange to to confirm where reava was and he still made that very quick decision very rash decision to fire four bullets not even a warning shot just you know yeah I think as well as like his level of Fame was equivalent to like David Beckham in the UK so the fact that like that as a nation seeing you know hearing the story must be so like jaring just to kind of I guess like Simpson really in that sense yeah um yeah Oscar was taken into police custody and formally charged with the murder the following day on February 15th he was cross-examined by investigators over a 5-day period regarding his series of events as we've explained and it's quite a rare set of circumstances we have the police didn't need to investigate who had killed Reaver they needed to understand why raver had been killed Oscar acknowledged as as Tom said straight away that he had killed his girlfriend but he was adamant that he mistook her for a burglar over the remainder of the month various bail hearings took place and though the state argued that Oscar posed a serious Flight Risk and that he may perhaps have fled to his property in Italy he was released on bail which was fixed at $113,000 um yeah he had a lot of money and overseas accounts there was rumors he had other properties but his I mean his his uh defense team as well argued that he didn't even have property in Italy and that it was another family member but yeah he's released on bail at this point and there's immediate outrage at that from here gets very very bizar whilst all of this is going on Forensic investigators are thoroughly searching Oscar's home in Petoria and sharing their findings from the crime scene with lead detective Hilton berther as well as this numerous neighbors are interviewed about what they heard or saw on that f night Hilton bther is a highly controversial figure in this case not only did he and his team make a series of blunders when trying to preserve and analyze the crime scene but he was also removed from the case just weeks before the trial when it revealed that he himself was facing charges of attempted murder which how has that happen is like how is he still knocking about on the case yeah so this is yeah really bizarre cuz he's very he very senior in his position as well but apparently Hilton bofer and two other officers were accused acced of firing uh numerous bullets into a taxi carrying seven passengers during which apparently a drunken incident had occurred on the road and they just started firing which yeah uh obviously took took her life so Hilton Bo found himself in some Hilton bother Hilton bather initially said one witness who claimed to hear gunshots and screaming could not have possibly heard this as they lived 600 M away from Oscar this was quickly proven to actually have been 177 M he stated that the gunshot holes in the toilet door consistent with a shooter firing downward and directly towards the door which contradicted Oscar's versions of events where he would have been on his stumps and shooting upwards he publicly stated that steroids were found in the property but these were Herbal Remedies his team missed that one of the bullets had struck the toilet ball potentially causing a Ricochet wound which contradicted evidence he and his team regularly walk through the crime scene without protective covers on their shoes as a result of this just a week before the trial was due to start bua was replaced by detective vesh Kumar munu who is regarded as the most senior detective in all of South Africa yeah that's mad isn't it that is absolutely mad yeah seems the high profile cases just they seem to have police who just like nah we won't do that well I think as well cuz all of this I I feel like I'm I'm harping on the Innocence wagon here a little bit because all of this came out before the trial it did alter a lot of people's opinions um and all of this simple simple policing that Hilton bofer has uh has got terribly wrong it's just yeah very I'm s I'm surprised the trial wasn't perhaps even thrown out 3rd of March 2014 the trial of Oscar Pistorius begins at the high court of Petoria he faces charges of murder possession of illegal ammunition as well as two charges of firing a gun in a public place due to South Africa abolishing jury systems during the apartheid era no jury was present to hear the case instead the verdict will be decided by judge Thal MPA along with two assessors that she appointed to help evaluate the evidence and reach a verdict Oscar was represented by defense Advocate Barry Rue whilst the state appointed Jerry Nell a former wrestler turned legal Advocate who has given the nickname the bulldog and the terrier due to him being such a ferocious legal opponent and regularly being given the highest profile or most difficult cases in South Africa yeah this this moment when so obviously I mentioned ear my parents were very obsessed with this case and the trial and it Sky News had it on constantly when they did like the introduction of Jerry Nell to this case I remember cuz my my parents were very much convinc convinced of his guilt from the start they were I remember them both saying don't worry Jerry's going to Jerry's going to get him they were con cuz what were we 2014 not that long ago is it 10 years ago yeah so you were what 32 [ __ ] off mate [ __ ] off yeah I remember yeah the the introduction of Jerry nil and my parents were very much like don't worry it's over now that uh you know Jerry nil is appointed he's going to get him but yeah he he he was very confrontation he was very um blunt and Blas and he he set traps from what I remember he he started off you know sort of talking through Oscar's celebrity and fame and his life now and then suddenly just dropped a you know a direct question that was accusatory and um yeah I I remember enjoying him um as a as a as a an entertaining lawyer Barry Ru very much stuck to Oscar's version of events as we outlined in the timeline throughout the trial he painted Oscar as a vulnerable scared man who was trying to act in self-defense of both himself and Riva as he had been convinced that an intruder was in the house he claimed that OS had zero intention to kill reiva and would never have laid a finger on her Barry Ru continued to paint Oscar as the second victim of this case behind Riva he challenged the prosecution's proposed timeline of events as well as the errors made and the lies told by detective Hilton bther the defense claimed that if Oscar had killed reava as the result of an argument why could nobody hear the argument but could hear the scream that later occurred he also suggested that the gunshots that the neighbors claimed to hear were in fact the sound of Oscar's cricket bat against the toilet door ultimately the defense closed its case 4 months later on the 8th of July 2014 where they claimed that Oscar's timeline of events was evidence enough that he should be charged with culpable homicide rather than murder the Bulldog Jerry nil meanwhile brought forward a great deal of evidence to suggest the killing was premeditated and completely intentional and came as a result of an argument he claimed Oscar had conducted a snowball of lies from the moment that rava locked herself in the toilet in order to get away from him he and the prosecution team painted Oscar as a highly paranoid emotionally unstable aggressive gun obsessed short-tempered insecure and highly jealous individual I was talking about Oscar Ben that he grilled Oscar during the cross- examination saying you fired four shots through the door while it's knowing that she was standing behind the door yeah um as I mentioned Jerry Nell uh yeah very powerful uh in his choice of words and the way that he delivers certain phrases um so we're just going to play a little short clip of of Nell in action for you now you approach the danger that doesn't make sense it it's not true instead of caring and running away at that split moment I wanted to put myself between the danger Steve danger and R my lady and you did by firing it's correct lady she wasn't scared of an intruder she scared of you it's not true my lady I wouldn't like to be the end one one of his grillins unless it was a barbecue he looks like he would do a good barbecue it's interesting as well with um obviously they're not being a jury there that Oscar has to has to plead to the judge in terms of like it's not true my lady he's not just he's not trying to undermine now there by calling him my lady which would be an extreme power play in a very odd um situation but yeah um n is someone that you don't really want to get on the uh the bad side of really the prosecutor be quite a good name for arrest well wouldn't it yes the prosecution rests throughout the trial there were arguments about ballistics and whether or not Oscar was in his prothetics at the time of the shooting there were statements from Neighbors who claimed that they regularly heard the couple arguing for was shared of Oscar shooting watermelons and then cheering when they exploded whil describing his ammunition as zombie sers I mean if you got if if if you got an interes in guns and you're shooting watermelons that's fine right yeah I think it just looked very it's the same as those Tweets in the context of the case it looked very damning I mean these there was a documentary I watched where there was this ballistics and gun ammunition expert I think that was his actual title um but he had this this ammunition that Oscar had in his house was illegal to to own and the way that it worked is when the bullet struck a an object or a Target it it became like a double-sided claw so that as it moved through the target it would bring parts of the target with it and also what you know like a similar to a hollow hollow point it would cause more Devastation yeah like the Las Las Vegas shooter I was going to say similar to that yeah Oscar was made to walk across the courtroom on his stumps there were also hundreds of whatsapps and text messages between Oscar and reever shared in court of roughly 1,700 messages that were looked at four of them stood out and were focused on by Jerry Nell these messages were from reer accusing Oscar of possessiveness and jealousy as well as one message from her sent 3 weeks before her murder that said you've picked on me incessantly since you got back from Cape Town and I understand that you're sick but it's nasty I'm scared of you sometimes of how you snap at me and of how you will react to me you make me happy 90% of the time and I think that we are amazing together but I'm not some other [ __ ] you may know trying to kill your Vibe I am the girl who let go with you even when I was scared out of my mind obviously as we mentioned there were around 1,700 messages that were analyzed four of them stood out as out of uh you know out of out of the lot as quite concerning uh and this is a portion of one that's about three or four paragraphs long so I'll put the full uh the link to the full message in our Facebook group yeah it's pretty scary I mean even even saying you make me happy 90% of the time that's that allows 10% room for issues you know that's a lot of room for an issue definitely Barry Ru Oscar's defense argued that 99% of the messages were happy and loving and pointed to the last text that rever sent to Oscar just hours before she died you are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for as the trial continued Oscar had numerous emotional and physical outbursts in court including wailing crying shaking howling and vomiting a social worker assigned to him shortly after the murder testified that she believed he has been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder he is generally in mourning and is genuinely heartbroken Jerry now meanwhile claimed that it was crocodile tear as a result of Oscar not getting his way in court and getting frustrated that his versions of events was carrying less believability he is highly emotional throughout the entire trial which lasted for months aorus and the Whalers that's good that is good buffalo saw shat you with a really mean bullet yeah cut last B um there's criticism in the court about making walking his stumps you know thinking that was humiliating him and um you know the fact that the prosecutor had no sympathy whatsoever for his tears and if he was suffering with PTSD that behavior on him and being the harsh on him is like you know terrible but again it depends on which side of the offense you're on I feel like the court was a lot harsher here than you'd normally see in American court and the UK Court they were allowed to kind of push the boundaries a little bit further but a lot of criticism on the case was the fact that he had a lot of money he was given a lenient um kind of look as well so yeah cuz I mean at this point he's in his mid mid 20s so he's still a young man he's a celebrity all over the world and this yeah the argument is he's he's not Garner I don't want to say he's garnered sympathy throughout the trial because there are elements that does paint him as a really evil and manipulative person but the criticism is if this was say the the criticism from locals in the area was if this was say uh a poor black man the trial would have been very very different uh to the situation that that we had with Oscar he is just a poor man with nothing below the knee spare him his life for his shooting tragedy good hello September 11th and September 12th 2014 over a 2-day period the judge delivered her verdicts on day one she said that the state did not prove Beyond a reasonable doubt that Pistorius was guilty of premeditated murder though she did also state that Oscar acted hastily and used excessive force and quote would have known whoever was behind that door might have been struck and killed by the four bullets on day two the judge found Pistorius not guilty of murder but guilty of culpable homicide of Steen camp and guilty of reckless endangerment with a firearm and this was based of the uh the discharge of the bullet in the restaurant in a separate incident he was found not guilty of the charges relating to discharging a firearm through the sunroof of a car and the illegal possession of ammunition sentencing was set for the following month that's one thing as well this two-day delivering of the verdict and then you have to wait another month for the um sentencing it's that seems quite staggered drawn out yeah yeah initially Oscar was sentenced to 5 years for culpable homicide as well as a three-year sentence for reckless endangerment over the next decade numerous appeals would be launched from both the prosecution and the defense uh and as well as this raver's parents also launched a a separate civil suit against Oscar he was immediately placed on suicide watch when he was transferred to the prison 3 years later with Oscar briefly having been released on house arrest and paroled for good behavior in September of 2017 the South African Supreme Court resentenced Oscar charging him with murder and as a result of this they added 9 years to his original sentence and they basically reviewed the evidence reviewed his timeline of events and stated that from doing this they couldn't prove culpable side but they could prove murder which again to me for a Supreme Court to intervene like that I I part of me thinks that this was maybe due to public outcry backlash yeah you know he spent some time out of prison uh living with family very much on house arrest and yeah now he's got an additional 9 years and been well he's now a convicted murderer so as you may have recently seen he was released on the 5th of January 2014 6 months ago at the time of recording having spent a total of 9 years in prison he has been barred from drinking alcohol or taking drugs and he's also been placed on Anger Management courses as well as gender-based violence courses he is barred from speaking to the media and is believed to have to remain at one fixed address and yeah a lot of the speculation is that he's currently uh living in one of his uncle's Mansions yeah it's a highly controversial trial a highly controversial outcome um and there are a great deal of people outraged by the fact that he is is now a free man a relatively free man there are also there was also some outrage that he was ever convicted in the first place shall we share our thoughts as I said like I Y A little bit I have to admit I think whatever opinion I fall on I think I agree with the assessment of shooting those four shots with the door you need to be doing that thinking that the person behind the door is going to die um it's as I said earlier or given the rightly seen if rever was in there so I think in that sense that yeah it's it's a completely unwarranted action in terms of him doing it and I even if it's total negligence this is me kind of being a bit on the fence even if it's total negligence he needs to be punished for that behavior do I believe he think he had an argument and that's how he acted I don't actually know now CU I'm kind of like there isn't enough evidence for me between the relationship of him being Ultra like there's no there's no clear example of violence between their relationship um that's not to say there never was she may never mentioned it or spoke out about it but he obviously they quick to anger this I've said before but it's never been mentioned that he has ACT been domestically abusive or anything like that so if it was just a random oneoff yeah I'm just tying myself a Nots really um one of you tap in and I I'll think about it more I like I said at the beginning I do find find it a bit of a open shut case for me it's I I do think he's guilty I do I do find the story pretty convincing his story his side of events and I do also feel like the emotion that he displayed in court was genuine as in not crocodile crocodile tears um however his history of anger um and that uh very damning text message from Reaver gives a good example of his his background and I think he knew at that point what he was doing whether it's a fit of rage or or whatever perhaps it could have done the like said and then he's disassociated from the whole event and therefore hasn't really like he said and put that could be genuine his reaction PTSD from the event but he hasn't quite computed yeah yeah yeah I think I'm yeah I think I'm somewhere between you boys I completely understand what Tom's saying cuz as we were researching this I've gone from both verdicts quite a number of times I remember at the time absolutely was convinced he was completely guilty I think his behavior on that night was very questionable very um Brash considering the pair were only together for 3 months he's for her to already be scared of him I'm not saying it's it's okay to ever be scared of your partner whatever the you know duration of your relationship is but that's quite concerning I think I I keep I went on about it at the time the boat accident I feel like if there is you know a serious head injury there I mean he was out cold had to be pulled out of the water airlifted to hospital reconstruction surgery on his face and head it's for me I think he's guilty what pulls me away from guilty sometimes is the fact that he's immediately called for help I think it's a Heat of the Moment he's done it and realized oh [ __ ] I've done that and he still then tried to call for help I you know I he would have been far more obviously guilty looking if he tried to Stage a Breakin or I mean who knows maybe he opened that window afterwards yeah for me but then for me as well I would say there's not there's not enough evidence here Beyond A Reasonable Doubt for me to say he's guilty but if I had to pick one of the two which is not how it works I would I would go guilty yeah so yeah I advise watching presume in because lot of this themes definitely run through that I think um a heartbroken thing as well for me is that Riva was a remarkable woman she was looking to become a lawyer and looking to work in domestical domestic abuse and violence against women was one of her key areas she wanted to get involved in sadly that going full circle and ending you know her life was ended within that kind of Realm was is particularly just makes it slightly more heartbreaking when we started filming this at the beginning of it I was like the same as you Dan open and shut and I kind of been stewing on it a little bit and near I can't say without Beyond reasonable doubt that I 100% think it was this way or if it wasn't just a rash man acting trying to defend in it you know and being very rash with his decisions so yeah like I said earlier let us know in the comments below we'd love to hear what what you guys think and it's always interesting to see what you guys think um so yeah share your thoughts this is the thing everywhere I I look on par it seems to be a running theme with uh social media and YouTube comments it is overwhelmingly in in the the guilty camp and he'll now have to there was something I read or heard on a BBC news story he's going to have like 24hour security um because obviously he's still in South Africa in an area where gun crime is is is particularly high as we've covered um and there are people there are groups of people infuriated by the fact that he's walking free definitely and it's it's it's worth mentioning he was the hero for lots of people like lots of people has he was The Shining Light of South Africa for a period so L people just heartbroken um about about this as well in that sense that they've lost a national hero National Treasure but yeah it's it's a f fascinating one it's always fascinating to see someone going from you know from hero to uh you know possible Mur murderer we've mentioned it it's got so many uh the the the captivation that it had and uh the similarities that it had with the OJ trial and then if you compare the outrage at different verdicts and you know the way that you know each case ended up um it it became a a big story about money race Celebrity Crime but yeah I mean because this case we've had to focus so much on the different elements of what happened the timeline of events we've not got as much aftermath for you one one I did want to mention I mean there's so much that's happened in the media in the Press there's films documentaries series there was one thing I remember from The Trial at the time is Paddy Power uh the the the bookie got in a lot of trouble for a very controversial um uh advertisement that they made and it was money back if he walks uh was their headline on people betting on his um guilty or innocence if he walks as in If he if he walks free an innocent man um and they had over 5,000 complaints terrible from Patty terrible from Patty but what we're going to do to to wrap up is I have made a a table of all of the uh innocent guilty you know divisive cases that we've covered over the years um and I'll paste it here so we can all see it um I think it's quite interesting so this is a this is a table of all the different divisive cases we've covered whether they wrong wrongful convictions um contested outcomes these are our verdicts for all the cases we've covered if you're an audio listener we've got Casey Anthony all of us are guilty Michael Peterson Tom and Ben on the innocent Camp Dan on the guilty Camp West Memphis 3 all of us on innocent Adnan Sayed Tom and Dan innocent me guilty Dary Routier all guilty the Bane family David Bane all guilty Amanda Knox all innocent Central Park 5 all innocent Steven Avery Tom guilty Ben innocent Dan unsure I can't fathom the way he got think he's innocent but yeah I think it was more the behavior of the the um detectives and the police force in that county at the time but Brendan dassi the nephew of Steven A Avery all innocent is that right Tom you were still innocent for him all innocent for Brendan dassie hopefully that WrestleMania dream the arc concludes OJ Simpson all guilty Menendez brothers all guilty Oscar Pistorius we've got uh Ben and Dan guilty and Tom innocent based on not being through over proven a Beyond Reasonable Doubt so I'm not saying I think he's innocent I think what he did he should definitely be punished for 100% but whether or not he did actually believe someone else was in there I don't think the evidence is enough stacked up after apart from one angry message producer Dan just added a series of exclamation marks and question marks next to Tom's verdict but to be fair I said the same as Tom but then I um I went to guilty which I'm not sure you're allowed to do yeah cuz Dan's bit unsure for him which I think is kind of that's a bit pathetic consider we're all doing unsure for Steven Avery down all right then fine um CU Tom's put man up to mine um I I'll go uh guilty for Steven Avery solid the final table looks like that there you go interesting fantastic so we hope we haven't pissed anyone off obviously um and and and a big thing is again like we saw with our Amanda Knox episode it all became about Oscar there's you know I'm glad Tom mentioned obviously the life that that Riva was living and the promise that she had in such a promising future and it's yeah you feel terribly sorry for all of her friends and family and her poor parents and as well as this obviously Oscar's family have had to go through this as well and stand by him and it's um yeah just a horrible case and one that's yeah highly divisive highly contended it's a divisive series Ben it is indeed definitely is Ben is it time for your uh cryptic clue oh yes Benjamin Carter's cryptic Clues everyone gather around for some clues that can be quite cryptic but he's going to give them to you anyway hope you can figure them out so uh yeah big shout out again a lot of people probably got I'm assuming uh the Dan makes music out of Harry Potter's bladder um next week it is you could give this Crown to Brendan Frasier or high priest imotep you could give this Crown to Brendan Frasier or high priest imotep difficult yeah I I should yeah I'll elaborate this is based on the Killer's nickname rather than their own name but that's fine it's still cryptic is yeah not as good as last week's but still okay hey hey hey all right I haven't got Tom's VIPs this week I it's immediately me and not having one after starting a new segment but as I said in the Ben they were all quite heavy the ones I found they weren't really the kind of light uh pushing a pee with your nose across the street vibe that I'm going for nowadays you have standards that's good I I don't I don't yes true um nothing wrong with that shirt but um so we will be back next week with that very cryptic episode we we um really wanted to say big thank you for all the people sharing Us in the stories and commenting nice things and liking the podcast subscribing following all that lovely stuff we really appreciate it if you just can't wait until next week we have got a website which does have over 170 exclusive episodes and recently we've covered some some humdingers uh the murder of Dimebag Daryl the Dylan red wine case the Greyhound bus beheading um Timothy Treadwell the Grizzly Man um and they're available in video and audio version over at IC map. co.uk starts from just a pound a month um which is glorious [ __ ] hell that's well cheap yeah or if you you know if you think that's a lot to do a lot of buttons to press to get there and you've got an iPhone why don't to head over to Apple podcast if you search I motor a minese you can have the audio RSS feed from there subscribe onto their $2.99 a month or $29.99 a year you get access to all the episodes in audio form so you can listen to it when you're driving when you're running when you're walking maybe when you're slouching by a bus stop waiting for one of the buses to come by so there you have it I mean we have a lovely community over over there we would love your support we really appreciate it and um yeah it truly helps the podcast to to do what we do we also wanted to say we are really excited to be appearing at this year's crime conon in London event which is on September the 21st there are some tickets still available and you can get a nice taste discount on your ticket with the code I map a checkout or if you join our website there's an even bigger discount code that you can get just drop us a message on there and we'll sort you out but yeah we can't wait to hang out with some people in person right yeah in a quick show I went to truck Festival this weekend and met some lovely people who listen to the podcast so lovely to meet you and uh apparently I ignored someone while dancing on stage Shunk um who wanted to picture so apologies for that and a little shout out to Black honey who are an amazing band who also a fan of the podcast so they did a great set so why don't to check them out as well bloody lovely bloody lovely well there you have it guys that was the case of Oscar Pistorius the murder of Ras Steen camp and guys we'll be back next week with a brand new case and until then like we always say we say this all the time keep doing what you doing well unless it's uh riding go-karts down a hill without breaks but you got I mean kids so save zombie sters for zombies yes yep y um brutal fruits don't drink them and drive or sail or sail and sail though Dan say it's perfectly legal so maybe I'm wrong there I I didn't say that at least it give the Lifeguard something to do a yeah that's it bloody LIF guard L um adrenaline junky see see you later take care to [Music] [Music]