Todd Larkham Coached Nick Kyrgios Back In The Day and He Shares His Insights

[Music] who are you and why do we care yeah thank thanks Sean thanks for having me on your show real real pleasure to be here my name is Todd Lam I'm a tennis coach uh in canra Australia so capital of Australia small City though um but I worked for tennis Australia as an elite junior development coach for 15 years um coached a whole bunch of players during that period probably the most famous is Nick curios so I coached him from age 10 to 17 so spent solid seven years with him um and yeah that's what I do I coach I played on tour for 10 years from age 20 to 30 before that played in all the majors but mainly on the Challenger level was ranked between 130 and 200 most of my career um but yeah the last 20 years Still Still coaching a elite junior players and really probably specialized in that in that area so my parents were both tennis coaches so you know spent my whole life cheating that's just not fair that's right spent my whole life in tennis really so yeah it's been my life I love the sport and it's great to talk tennis love love talking tennis with like-minded people and just great to be here on your show talking tennis yeah we appreciate the time and before we dive into talking about Nick and all that I'm curious I don't know that I've had a conversation with anybody who has been in that 100 to 200 range for that amount of time what is that even like I mean they it's hard to pay your bills when you're 160 in the world what what does that look like for you what did that look like for you yeah it really is tough I mean it was it was a great life I mean I absolutely love playing tennis and competing and being a professional tennis player but it is tough I mean the income you're earning is really really just breaking even most years so you're trying to get creative find ways to make money I mean I play German team tennis every year you might pick up 20 $30,000 for six weeks work there that helps to keep you going but really you're living your life on the Challenger tour which is a secondary tour as we know in professional tennis you're playing in the Grand Slam qualifying events they're always really key for those kind of players because if you can get through you know maybe get to the first round of a grand slam or the second round you might pick up a decent paycheck and that can keep you going for the year but I suppose you're following your dream and that dream is to be top 100 top 100 player and that's what we're all striving for that's where the big bucks are play on the main tour uh week in week out so I didn't wasn't able to achieve that but I was no regrets so happy that that I was able to go out there and um play on professional tennis which was always my dream growing up and so so appreciative and lucky to play in the majes against some great players so it was an in incredible part of my life yeah I was looking at the schedule with playing against huitt and SAS and Agy and I mean just it's it's got to be such a cool experience Bobby talks he's told a story or two of somebody somebody else telling the story of seeing the ball coming from someone like that it isn't Just Me and Bobby as I mean we're good players but as coaches hitting the ball that's just different from a ball trying to return Pete's serve I mean it's just it's got to be a different world yeah that's right yeah when I played sis um I played him on Center Court at US Open uh was the first ever night match to play in 1997 it was the first ever night match uh on that Court the opening of arra stadium that year so uh Whitney Houston actually sung a song before we walked out she was there on on site she sang One Moment In Time before we walked out on court so just an incredible experience but you know Pete was always one of my Idols he' won you know played all through my year won like seven Wimbledon I watched him so much but yeah I was worried about his serve and you know the first point he served 130 miles an hour acce down the teer and I was like Wow here's the reality of what what this match is gonna be like managed to get about seven or eight games but I didn't break him and uh gee that that was Ser was something I'd never never never faced and never experienced it was so hard so hard to get in the rallies against him keep it on a new neutral setting his second serve was so good as well you know his second serve was one of the best ever so hard flat powerful was like fa facing a first serve for me two first serves every point so they one of the greatest serves of all time and as a coach I've really tried to uh use his serve as a real model you know his technique such a perfect technique so that's how I um teach my players uh curios is similar Serena Williams Ash Ser similar technical aspects to his serve but he he was a real model early 2000s 90s a great greatest serve of all time I think I couldn't couldn't agree more and I would see that serve myself i' be like all right thanks I'm out of here I'm gonna go be a coach because right it's just not something I'm gonna be able to handle so what takes you from the tour to coaching because I assume during that time it's just a matter of all right then you decide what do I do next right then you jump into did you go straight into coaching yeah I went straight from the tour to coaching literally my parents were still running uh tennis faciliity so it was an easy transition for me off tour and back into their facility spent a couple of years and then a job came up with tenis Australia in my town in camber and yeah was a great opportunity to work for the Federation and uh they they provided us such a great environment here in Cambra an opportunity just to work with four or five young players the best players we had in this city and and just you know to have the the time that you need in the week to really spend it just with those players travel everywhere um Craig Tyler who's austrain open tournament director started these cies back in 2006 in Australia uh really transformed uh Player Development in Australia and we we became really successful from that period on WE we've gone through a really poor period of developing players but when we started these acms uh took a few years but we really started to see some success and you know players like ashb Nick curios Alex demon or uh all the players we have in the top 100 now all came through these Nationals in Australia so it's just great to be part of that and yeah it was a great uh kind of school and education for me as well to become a you know Elite coach high performance coach yeah it's got to be it's got to be I wouldn't say just as rewarding but similarly rewarding to see someone that you can mentor and send them on to do tour level things I mean that's just most coaches don't get to do that most coaches I work solely with beginners and mostly eight-year-olds so if they end up on tour it's it's my fault for making them helping them love the sport but it wasn't it wasn't me getting on a tour it's just a different coaching world and and even Bobby situation is the same thing and so you're you're talking to us today because You' got a connection with Nick you said you've worked with him specifically and you've got some content on what is called coachlife decom can you tell us about that yeah really excited about this website I think it's really unique because it's bringing together 20 coaches from around the world and 20 really successful coaches who have uh produced players that have gone on to be you know top 20 grand slam Champion players so some of the coaches are American coaches Sly black who coached Coco go and SLO Stevens through their junior years Michael Joyce who worked with Sher po of course on tour but also pular for several years guy Fritz who obviously developed Taylor all through his Juniors um Diego mayano who worked for the USDA for many years coach Tommy Paul rler peler Francis tiao we've also got schwant coach uh spent six years with her through her teenage years was incredibly successful another coach from a Gary stickler who coached Pat rafter Jason kuer John milman really successful experienced highly respected coach in Australia so what it is is over 600 videos on this website it's basically these 20 coaches giving all the information they have what strategies drills techniques they use to develop skills and develop uh game style technique uh footwork mental strategies etc etc ET so you know as you know Junior coaching uh is different to tour coaching I mean we are developing the basics and the fundamentals I'm taking kids on who are 11 years old and going this is how you hit a kick serve and they have no idea how to hit a kick serve so how to hit a volley or a forehand or whatever try to take them from you know Junior players into Elite uh some of the world's best Junior players so it's really developing those fundamental skills I think there's something that for everyone out there recreational players parents coaches I talk a lot about what parents can do uh to help their kids develop so I think there's something for everyone on there really excited about the website I think it's going to be really popular no one's really ever done it before was a huge effort to travel around the world and get all these coaches and film them all and get their information so yeah for the cost of a couple of private lessons uh like I said there's over 500 videos on there so huge amount of information um for any aspiring tennis player okay so before I ask you to give away all the stuff for free here which you know give us all the tips and and everything um I'm curious so as a as a coach of a guy like curios and and maybe in that same generation that that those Australian players we knew a few Bobby and I follow the tour we've got some friends that came off the tour that we all know and for some reason there was always the Aussie that could volley and you talk about Pat rafter that was always my guy in the 90s because I had a an initial experience with Andre agasse and I didn't like him at the time I was mad at him so I was always cheering for rafter against Agy as the American kid that was always weird but there was always that kick serve there was always that volley even the Aussies we know here Bobby we talk about the guys that are coaches even now that just seem to have volleys what is it about even a guy like Nick that you look at him and he just doesn't doesn't even doesn't even seem to try at times but he can just hit a ball from anywhere to anywhere is that is that aussy blood is you just born like that or is that just magic coaching or is it a combination yeah I think it's coaching it's really interesting of course you do you're the coach that's right it's interesting looking around different nations and different nations do things differently and better but yeah I think it's just been passed down through the generations to be honest I mean the 60s era where we had so many great players and so much tennis was played on grass we had so many grass courts in Australia we and you have to volley on grass on real grass you have to come in you can't volley well certainly maybe you get away with a little bit more now but you back then you had to come you had to be able to volley and the coaches from that era I suppose we had some great coaches like Harry Hopman Ray Ruffles Bob carmichel these guys are all older now but but they I I really think they passed that down to the generation of coaches my era uh I think it's just continued on that's something you got to work on uh surfaces help a little bit we do still play some junior tennis here on natural grass we've made a point of keep doing that oieo has done all right at Wimbledon but I think it's yeah it's a combination of coaching and the surfaces we play on and just making an effort to really teach your players how to volley I think you spend so much time on Sur for back and movement I know a lot of lot of matches in tennis are played like that but also you know look at the trends of the game guys are coming to the net a lot throughout a match so if you can volley um it's I think it's really important and yeah I do I think think comes down to coaching and and dedicating the time to to Really um uh get out there and work on volley and sometimes it's going to be harder to work on volleys with Junior players because they're not very good it's difficult to set up fun drills Etc you got to find a way I think to to do it yeah we agree Bobby excuse me Bobby I saw a meme the other day of you know where they put the picture of the thing and they say oh here's me working on my sir you know 10% working on my forehand 90% and working on my back then it was Vol was like volleys what are voles like do you agree we probably As Americans big serve big forehand probably don't put enough time into our volleys who are you talking to Sean I'm talking to you Bobby because we're the Americans we gotta I'm curious because they're so I don't know what it is like I said it's the coaching in Australia is different here and so they end up with a Nick curios type and we end up with the same query is that a unfair comparison oh I I think you're you're spot on I mean we're known for I'll go a little higher than 10% uh obviously you know I'm I was a big sers fan and I always felt like he didn't get enough credit because his got the great shot was to serve and people like well well he's got a great serve well yeah but he worked at it I mean like you said technically as far as if you're going to teach a serve and the athleticism combined probably prior to Nick the most athletic guy that played on tour in in you know I would say my lifetime just if you you know up until the last round of guys you know the the Sam the uh federa Nadal I think and Novak I think you could see them all in different places but before that you know sis was always the guy to me that stuck out that you could see in a different Arena if he had gone a different way so you know I'm a yes I'm a big believer in the American we spent a little and Nick I think that's again coaching because that was Nick Nick was big forehand you know he believed you need to have two shots and he wouldn't even teach a return a serve right away because he wanted you to get your your forehand down first and then as the game explode and the speed got bigger that he would start to change his philosophy a little bit where you you're GNA have to adapt but yeah I I don't think that's an unfair statement that that's with the majority of the time and then when you have success and you try to introduce a continental grip after the fact where you're going to have some failure that that's that's a tough thing too now I'm going to go backwards yeah you're going to go backwards a while yeah exactly so Todd talk to us about that Nick kio's coaching experience because that's I I would guess what a lot of people would be interested in you look at a guy like deonar and he's the guy that's just he's gonna make a lot of balls and every coach can go okay yeah that's exactly how you'd you'd want a guy to to structure a game around the court but Nick came up I I hear rumor he wasn't the fittest kid when he started and what how did that develop can you can you catch us up on all that because that's got to be interesting story yeah really interesting story you know Nick at 10 when I started with him quite unathletic um he had some characteristics of athletism great hand eye coordination great ball Striker but very slow around the court and so kind of had to develop his game style around that a little bit around his personality but also around his athleticism I mean his defense was almost non-existent right so he really had to play a super aggressive game he really tried we really tried to make this the the court smaller stay up on the Baseline you know talk about serving forehand but that was my philosophy as well you need to have a great serve and a great forehand and we really worked hard on that and really hard on trying to dictate the point at all costs from him it's really interesting because had I had a got a player who's quicker then I probably wouldn't have developed that way he may not have been as good so it's it's interesting that Nick couldn't really move much therefore he was a hell of a competitor and he want to win so you know he he really tried to find a way how could he win with the with the the the athleticism and the attributes that he had so playing really aggressive getting that first strike in serving big taking the ball early um that that was the way that we developed and that's the way it kind of evolved you know when he got older 171 18 that's where he really started to develop his athleticism his movement got in the gym more and got a full-time physical trainer and really put a huge amount of effort into his diet Etc in that period which is was really huge for him but certainly in Junior's really interesting that as a coach you really got to look at the the two things you look at at the personality of the kid you're coaching and and their physical attributes and you try to build a game style around that and you know Nick always really wanted to play really aggressively it's something he's he's taken through all through pro tennis whenever he gets an opportunity in a match a break point or a big a big point is always like I want to take control of the point I'm you rarely see Nick go defensive or not take an opportunity he'll always go for that big shot uh the drop shot the big winner the big serve the big second serve the serve volley you'll always try to take the calculated risk and be the one who controls the point uh in those big moments it's something it's a message that Mich just told me and I always push to him but it's something naturally that he always wanted to do fit around his personality his game style Etc so you know it's really interesting that that's the kind of way it evolved and uh yeah all you got to coach the individual as a coach you can't coach everyone the same and had to work hard with Nick with his personality I'm sure and that that's makes me think of a a James Blake tip I don't know why it was him specifically that came to mind but his tip was for coaches and he said you've got to coach to the player you can't just say well I'm a coach and this is the way I do it you've got to find what that player is capable of and speak to them where they are and work with what they are rather than taking somebody and try to jam them into some coaching mold because that's that's all you do and I think that speaks to the coaching ability of somebody like you that says okay you saw what was there and like I don't know like a sculptor is is a coach a sculptor say there's this there's this bril brance underneath here that did you see it at 10 or was it just the kind of thing that he was one of the 10y olds that stuck it out and became good yeah like it's hard at 10 I had a bunch of about seven players and I really wasn't sure who was going to make it out of that 10 you have no idea you are like a sculptor or like you're building a house you've got a long period of time and you're really trying to plan it out well and look at that individual player and think how is that player going to play in several years time and what are their strengths and their rutes and how do you how do you build that Nick really was such a great competitor from a young age and you know I remember when I first started coaching I was looking for the athlete and it was all about identifying the athlete who's the greatest athlete and he kind of changed my perception on that and now really looking for the competitor I do feel it's the most important aspect of tennis and it determins how far you're going to go the scoring system in tennis is tough there every match you play is critical points if you can't compose yourself if you can't believe in yourself and execute your shots under pressure at any level and really step up and play well when it matters in tennis you're not going anywhere and doesn't matter how good an athlete you are so such a big part of the game and he had that compet that just that raw competitiveness where he's just so desperate to win every match he played and just the ability to find a way I didn't teach him that but that's what I'm looking for on a play because I can I feel like he can teach teach most other things technique movement footwork tactics game style was very very difficult to teach that me those mental skills I mean you can try I've tried a lot but you have to have a born competitor someone really wants to compete so Bobby's gonna jump in I know because I I can see his brain running because he and I talk a lot there are two two things you can't teach which is genetics and that competitive nature so Bobby I know you're gonna want to say hey Todd give me everything you got on finding that because Bobby's got the same issue is okay are if the genetics either are or aren't there how do you find that kid that just hates to lose right Bobby well and I I to the contr I'm laughing I'm like well I really have nothing to say because Todd pretty much said everything that I believe like you said it it gets to unfortunately and you hate this I'm working with a good kid you know a kid very disciplined little Davis who is very discipline got the maturity at a very young age as you said he's probably going to be 5 foot three and he's a nice kid you know now he's he does like to show off a little bit which is good he plays to the crowd so it might be you know it's a different way to get there but you know just from what Todd said I would have bet Nick was the Superstar athlete from day one who evolved into you know the pain points but yeah I I completely agree and and this is what bolitar always said and I always tell the the Venus Willam I mean the Richard Williams story about Serena when you know they did the 60 minutes and Venus was coming up and starting to have some success and and Richard just laughed and said yeah but way do you see the younger one she's just as good Venus is nice Serena's as mean as a snake she don't like to lose and you know there there's some and and Nal you know frankly one of the greatest competitors that I've ever seen and I always I don't even point to The Wimbledon he won the classic Wimbledon that we talked about I look at the year before when feder was serving for the match at 52 and I swore at that point if Nadal would have broke him he was winning that match because he just didn't know wouldn't accept losing so it's good to hear that you know it's sad to say because it is tough nurture versus nature what do you do when you when you when you're dealing with that or or I guess to what do we do how do we cultivate it when we see it and keep the person sane you know but you gota gotta keep feeding the meat to the lion we want we want an alpha yeah that's right I couldn't agree more yeah I suppose it's when I see that raw competitiveness it is it's about trying to direct it and I suppose uh contain it a little bit in Nick's case I had to contain it a little bit and just try to direct him in the in in the right direction from from competitive point of view because sometimes he went over the top and uh you know those highly competitive kids can really get so emotional so I suppose it's about trying to help him understand about where that line is uh and how does he control his emotions to a certain point without losing his raw competitiveness you don't want to make him you know a guy like Nick he compet he's always competed on on that red line a little bit right on the edge of that red line whereas you know a guy like better or sanus they appear to be so calm and cool and that's how they compete their best but Nick always need to be that little bit pumped up little bit fired up and he's always walking that edge a little bit that's where he had to be I suppose to play his best tennis that's where he has to be but I suppose as a coach is really trying to just make him understand that and just rain it in a little bit and just keep him uh keep him just understanding he needs to needs to calm St calm a little bit on Court and compose himself but without losing that real fire uh and like you said with Serena you see that with her as well that fire and that passion and you don't want to lose that that's what I want in that's what I'm really trying to identifying kids is that competitiveness and that fire and that motivation that passion for the sport and passion to win that's what you want they can take you a long way a really long way in tennis I think um take you all the way I completely agree now let me ask I'm guessing here pretty high IQ intellectually Nick yeah absolutely absolutely incredibly high IQ tennis tactically incredible tennis tactic I tell you a little story when he was about 14 he was going to play a player in the final of the Nationals in Australia this kid had a real bad backand and I said to him okay how how do you rather me telling the kids everything I really like to ask them how how tactically are you gonna beat this kid he said okay Todd the first qut I'm going to serve him wide a lot I'm I'm going to open up expose that back end first shot into his back and get him really defending out of that corner you know when when in the rally I'm going to really stop him running around his back and dominating with his forehand so I'm going to take my backand down the line early in the rally get him get him out in that corner so I can open up his backand on the second Court I'm going to hit kickers to his backand to expose that weakness so and I just sat there and went wow like yeah you got it mate that's that's what I was going to say you got it like so such a great tactical um IQ from a very young age so it's really interesting and still does uh he says he doesn't need a coach and sometimes I disagree some coaching would be help would help but tactically he is very very switched on and um yeah maybe something that people don't see but behind the scenes he's watching tennis and he is you know analyzing players and you can ask him how to beat feder and jovic Nadal and he will reel it off to you straight away he knows exactly uh how what their strengths and weaknesses are and how he might be able to expose that a very high Q high IQ from a tennis point of view uh from a very young age which is really interesting well I I but I think that that that leads to the volatility I always laugh because obviously Mack androe you know off the charts very intelligent Chrissy Everett was the opposite and she would you know ultimately come out and say well I wasn't real smart I did it this you know a certain way a lot of times but you know in and I think that's that plays to the volatility and and I look at and I'd be curious your your thought on this I used to be a big proponent of kids getting exposure to a lot of sports you know this way they learn the competitiveness to me My Philosophy there is changing a little bit just because of the level that we're seeing professionally even in in D1 tennis if you're going to get to those levels you got to be pretty set structurally at a pretty young age and then hopefully a a coach can you know nurture and and develop tactics and then as we all said the Wild Card genetic kicks in in our favor but you know that's the hard part I look at and I use myself and not that I was you know GNA go to either that spot either level I played baseball from the time I could walk and I was an undersized pitcher but as a pitcher I was Volatile tennis I kind of love the game that my coaches would look at me and say God if his tennis game ever develops to his athleticism we got something but I did that wasn't what I enjoyed about tennis I you know I'm 58 I'm still playing because I love to hit that silly ball where baseball if you crowded the plate I didn't care how big you are I was gonna stick it in your ear and you know and and when I see that now with these kids I'm like do we need to get them at nine and 10 years old get them through the 13s and 14s where they're ready at 1516 to take that next step yeah it's really interesting that you say that about other sports because as you know Nick played basketball you might know but he played basketball from the the day he started playing tennis as well he played basketball all the way through to about age 15 so really interesting because you know um I'm someone who encourages kids to play other sports but as we know it's it's difficult to find the time to get the volume of tennis that you need uh and also play another sport but I'm probably one on the side of where I'm not an extreme volume coach I kind of a kid aged about 13 I think about 12 to 13 hours of tennis on court a week is enough then you might be able to fit in then you got time to fit in another sport but I I played heaps of sports as a kid and I really think it's critical not critical I know it's not critical but I really think it's important to play another sport Nick developed so so much from basketball was hand eye coordination such a big thing in tennis developed that in basketball as well as tennis footwork uh perception but also just uh for your mental well-being playing another sport playing a team sport is great I think and having an interest outside of tennis not just hitting like you said not just hitting balls every single day tennis balls so really interesting that um that you like kids playing other sports I certainly do as well as long as you can find the time and he only played I think you can you only did one training session basketball once a week then played one game on a Sunday so it's not a hugee commit he could still easily get his 14 15 hours of tennis in a week um but yeah that was really important for him I think to play that basketball and he still loves basketball and he might have been a good basketball player I don't know he's certainly pretty good but yeah I'm glad he pick tennis but yeah it's interesting that uh yeah I guess I don't know I don't think we see interesting what you see but I think kids maybe play a bit too much tennis sometimes I don't know interesting what your take on that is the volume of how much tennis you're right you do need to be good at a young age in tennis we know that well I think you nailed it I think the the stroke discipline is the onc court stuff what I see and and go back to the American player where they don't have this is the footwork everybody asked me you know I float I'm very my coach was all about looking cool and I love you know thankfully for me it wasn't a choice I'm 5'9 I love basketball if that was you know if there was a sport if you ask me what would I want to do that's it I love basketball but I was 5'9 so there was a reality thing and I was 5'9 later in life I was the short you know I was always the kid who sat on the floor so I was always small but you know people ask me where did you get your footwork I'm like you know I played a little defensive back in football and I played basketball and I was a shortstop that's where I got you know when we do the drills and we do cones and we do ladders I don't know how to do that you know because I didn't that's not how I did it I did it you know when I do footwork DRS I'm like let's do some pass patterns you know do a down and out because that's how I learned it you know so I do think you you know absolutely I wish the kids and obviously with the Europeans with soccer that you know they get it there I I don't think and I think that's where the American Kids fail and and I think it like you said leads to critical point erors errors because they have the shots they don't set up properly and they miss when you know and you don't get a lot of chances in tennis to miss you know you have the opportunity you have to capitalize so yeah that I think that that's the hard part how do we get them as you said one or two days a week you know theseis the ballit termies why aren't they playing basketball one day a week you know we're going to go play that and because you need it and and it you know there's only ladders you don't look down at a at a floor and look at a ladder and say now I know my next step it's natural you know you got to do it and yes I I do think there's a lacking here in America when it comes to for workk and I do attribute it to the lack of the second sport yep totally agree well we talk look at a guy like CER like like G cner who what national champion skier or something so we we look at we look at the multiple sport athletes and I think back Bobby here in the Atlanta area I think of a Jeff Frank H who was in high school about the same time that I was and he was a guy Todd that was just if everybody was playing baseball and everybody had their High School 400 500 average he had like a 900 aage I mean he was just the guy that was just that much better than everybody else and every once in a while you have that guy and even in tennis you end up with that same thing we had the kid we were losing to the 10-year-old when we were 15 because he was gonna be that guy but it was also a reminder that we weren't going to be that guy because we're losing like if there's the young Nick curios coming up or the young Alex deonar you know the the kids that really just figure it out early sometimes they dive into tennis and they need that release of a basketball or a baseball for Bobby really the thing he actually loved more so in in in that way but I think that also prevents burnout Todd is that not something you see there as well yeah it's something we see a huge amount of uh often it's parent driven to be honest I think tennis we are the leader for Psy psychotic parents I think we're the winners AR we I don't know you don't have ice hockey there do you no I haven't seen ice hockey but yeah just I think sometimes parent driven they think that you got to do more and more and more more hours on court hit more balls more balls but so often it's not the case you need to go and play some other sports and have fun and play a team sport I think yeah it's something in Australia that I continue to push and try to it's hard with parents because they think oh I'm missing a session and that wednes afternoon should be hitting another thousand tennis balls but actually know you know if you're doing 12 13 Nows on quarter as a 12y old if you're not good enough and you can't make it doing that you're probably ain't going to make it so I I really think that it's critical playing those other sports and something in Australia we're grappling with same as America I'm sure I like Europe that play soccer like you say so good for their footwork and their other athletic they're all all around athleticism so yeah something something uh anyone listening parents listening to this podcast yeah get you if you can get your kids into multiple Sports if you can yeah really important if you're if you're that one sport thing because Bobby and I also know here we also end up with the other side where the kids don't have enough time for anything else because they're doing seven different things seven days a week and they can't actually focus on one thing but probably a different problem in that case well but I think that speaks to again if you're going to make this commitment and you know and Scott quter you know his daughter his his daughter played Division One tennis was a satellite player had a little success and his role his you know was always I want to do as much as for her to succeed I don't want to sit there and dangle a carrot and then say okay but you have to do this if that's what you're G to do that you know give the child every available option that you can afford to do it but you brought up an interesting Point Sean and i' I'd love to get Todd's opinion on this because you mentioned Jeff franor and I I don't know Todd you Jeff franor was a professional baseball player and and a Superstar athlete played he could have went to Clemson which is a great football American football school to play football but as you know Norman nobody when I saw Jeff franor hit I said wow he's got a big problem and you know he came on at you know young took the World by storm and he was out almost as equally fast because they identified the weakness and and played to it I look at Robbie jany I remember seeing Robbie Jane the tennis player as a 15-year-old running around hitting ground strokes saying oh my God you know who is this and then I saw him serve and I said oh now as the coach you know how do you and in using Pete SAS the story of Infamous SAS that you know his goal was to win wimble and his coach had said well there had never been a two-hander servant voler who won Wimbleton we have to make your backand one hand and he did it and he went from you know number one in California in the 14s all the way down to number three or four in the in Atlanta the coach would have been fired you know as a as a coach how do you sit there and say you know this we got a lot of great things but there is something that's exploitable we need to take a step back and and here because the competitiveness of you don't you know there's only so many Robbie janies there's only so many you see that kid and you see a meal ticket and you see a journey you know where is the responsibility of the coach to sit there and say yeah but we're we're limited by what we see right now yeah really good point and I really think that's a critical thing about coaching is a bit bit of art of coaching isn't it you have to be I suppose confident enough as a coach to really when you've got a really top Junior to say hold on a second you know it's easy to not rock the boat I suppose as a coach and just do nothing the kids going along great and they're winning titles Etc and we're not going to keep developing but I suppose as a as a coach you got to force yourself and and be confident and strong enough to to keep identifying those weaknesses and keep developing that game and it's a critical as a junior coach I think I'm trying to do two things one is trying trying to develop uh their game for the long term for for pro tennis and you're trying to get results along the way as well and I think that's the the balance as a junior coach and the Art of being a really really good high performance Junior coach is you're trying to do both you want to get results and you want to develop for the long term and you've got to keep focusing on both things if you focus on one thing too much all about results then you're probably not going to get the development but if it's all about development you go I don't care about results well then your player May well fall too far behind the pack and might be too hard to catch up later on so trying to find that balance the whole time as a junior coach and being strong enough and confident enough to go you know that forehand isn't going to hold up in five years we need to we need to make that change now and iron out that swing and get the better grip now so in the long term uh you know that's the end game right convincing the parents and the athlete the end game is pro tennis and that's where we want to go and you don't want to get don't to have a great Junior career and then have like you said not a very good pro career so yeah it's it's a really good point and um I think the best coaches can do that around the world I think the best junior coaches that's why we've got some great coaches on Coach life the ones who had real success where the players have really gone on to be great players and they're the coaches we want to hear from and how did they do that how did they balance that result and development uh aspect in and continue to get their player to improve uh each and every year I appreciate that sorry Bobby got you got one more because I was gonna say I don't know if we get to talk to all the coaches at coach life but when we got Todd we definitely got a hit him with king of tennis so well I'm gonna let him go but I because I'm a I'm a big Nick fan and again contrary to his personality or what is perceived as his personality he's remarkably efficient on the court I mean he's one of the guys I turn to with my kids and say look look at his setup on his back end especially there's not a lot of extra motion going on you know just the brief conversation we had with the founder of Coach talking about the speed Tech you know what they did with her forehand and how they pinned all right you know that's a little extreme I'd like it to be a little looser but you know the these are the things if you look at that level too they're usually very very very very very good at the the basics and you know and Nick is that guy and it's almost a curse when you look at say athleticism this why GE he's beyond the top 1% I mean how many billions of people in are in this world you know there's only so many more notches you can climb I I don't know where you go and when you're at that level there's you know there's five or six other guys in especially in his era that was dominated by three people you know how many people didn't win Grand Slams because of that three-headed monster called Novak Ro and you know that's tough to sit there and say I wasn't a success I wasn't a success because I couldn't beat these three I'll take it yeah that's right I'm all yeah yeah well that's one of the cool things about talking about a guy like Nick is that we get to talk more importantly to a guy like Todd and that's that's why I appreciate the time Tod because anybody anybody could look at that and say oh my gosh well clearly that was genetics or clearly that was coaching or whatever it is that they look at it and they can't see the decades almost of work from how when he started at seven who knows when he hit his first tennis ball was that probably that young or maybe a little earlier for him yeah probably six or seven that would have been about right yeah or seven is the usual time when that happens and you give them a few years and they get into it and all of a sudden see the kid makes me think of a guy on my college tennis team that he was he was the kid he was overweight but man if you gave him a ball in the strike zone you lost the point the point was over and it didn't matter what was going on he was gonna figure out how to efficiently win the point to Bobby's point which is and you just got to work with what you have and at some point you just end up unbelievably good at it and if you're lucky enough to have a guy like Todd in your life they can help you get there I'd say Nick's gonna be thankful to you right yeah that's right I always say like I didn't teach Nick all these no no coach can claim they taught all these amazing things I didn't teach Nick all these amazing things but I think I always say to coaches if you had a player like Nick Kos walk through your door do you have the environment and the knowledge to develop that talent and I suppose that's that's kind of my message to other coaches like when Talent walks through your door are you set up to be able to teach the fundamentals and the basics and all all the things that a player needs to have and so if you combine that incredible Talent with those fundamentals and that hard work and the years of hard work well then then then you might have something really special so you know what's the secret to developing players I think the secret is having good coaching knowledge continue to educate yourself having a great environment then hoping someone like Nick walks walks through your door and uh and you get lucky like you say he's once in gener once in a generation player yeah so I was just lucky that he came along when um I was in the right place at the right time and hopefully I helped him uh learn all those fundamentals of the sport and there there you go coaches there's your advice it's be ready right it's the what is the Bobby it's the the it's not luck it's the intersection of opportunity and preparation thank you opportunity and prepar there it is I like it uh well Todd I don't want to take up too much more of your time but I do want to ask you our king of tennis question and we ask this of everybody we talk to and we are always curious if you were put in charge of tennis If You Were King of tennis whether it's professional tennis Junior social anywhere in the world Australia doesn't matter anywhere for any amount of time if you were king of tennis is there anything you would do or change I love this question in the sure Ison I'm G to go I'm G to go the professional tennis okay rout here the first thing I would do is combine the ATP and WTA tours I really believe we should have one tour I believe every tournament you go to is better with a men's woman a men's and women's event better for the media better for the spectators better for the TV ratings better for the sport the the prize money the profit of the tournament Etc I really think the Grand Slams are doing it so well uh you leave the grand slams with the ITF but the h P2 and WW combines the other thing I hate in tennis is a ranking system I'd really like to change and make it like golf where you the top 100 players have their card for the year January to November you play the full season if you finished top 80 in the world you retain your card if you're outside of that and you're in the bottom 20 you're relegated to the Challenger tour and you have to have a year on the Challenger tour and you got to get back in that would be what I would want to do I I really think you could still have two tournaments on a week you could still have a man's and women's event in St Garden one in Istanbul for for example so you could still outside of the Master Series he could still have two or three events on at the same time but I still I think men's and women every week together would be amazing also think a card would be amazing and you know end of season end of November start of November end of the tennis season give the players a rest give the fans a rest seven eight weeks uh and we start again and we go January to to November so that's my call whether you could bring the WTA and HB to dils would be tricky that's always push back we push back and we say all right Todd now you're in charge I'm gonna have you call the ATP now you gotta make it happen right that's the hard part you look at Madrid you know I think every tournament you know sometimes a men men's tournament is is a fizzer and the woman step up sometimes the other way around you got both tournaments there you got the best players in both men's and women there's always great matches that you know Madrid all the men fell out but schwant and zalanka unbelievable final the woman held the tournament up there at the Aussie open this year was the man who held the tournament up but there's so many fans who want to see both when they go to a tournament so I really like to see an expansion of that and every sing single tournament men's and women's the best players in the world at the same venue yeah a lot of people would agree with you and Bobby and I have heard a theme recently which is about a season which is about having a downtime for these players give them a chance to rest I say rest relax and come back fresh but that probably justes mean they're gonna be out there busting their ass getting ready for the next season but at least maybe not on you know working hard seven matches over a week and a half or two weeks but Todd I appreciate your time this has been amazing it again like I said ahead of time it was it's just really cool we can talk to you in Australia live and and see each other and look each other in the eye and that's is I love the technology I love the fact that we can just do this and and have a conversation I appreciate you making time and we will put all the coach life links in the show notes and we'll promote all that and we'll get you uh we'll get your name and everything put down in there I think we've got a referral fee or a referral link that lets you know who who clicks on what and you our listeners want to go out and grabb a membership to coachlife decom it is uh it is pretty cool there's some good content there guys like uh guys like Todd but maybe not exactly like Todd but guys with uh some similar stories because not everybody has that Nick Kio story for sure well but I think there was there's no coincidence that coach life pointed us toward Todd first and and we appreciate that Todd because well you hit all my buttons I don't know I could go longer all the right answers exactly I appreciate thanks so much for having me yeah thanks so much for having me real pleasure to be on your show and really love talking tennis [Music]