Killer Mom Susan Smith Begs for Ex’s Support After She Murdered His Children

a mom who drowned her own toddlers 30 years ago is hoping to be freed soon but her former husband who is also the children's father is vehemently opposed her ever stepping foot out of a prison that's right you guessed it we're talking about Susan Smith we're recapping the horrific case that shocked the nation and what her upcoming parole hearing could look like with prison consultant Justin paperie welcome to sidebar presented by law and crime I'm Elizabeth Milner in 1994 Susan Smith shocked the nation when she intentionally left her car and drive with her three-year-old son Michael and 14-month-old Son Alexander still strapped in their car seats and let the car drown in a South Carolina Lake killing both of her sons initially Smith claimed a black man carjacked her and took off with her vehicle with her son still inside and she painted a picture of herself as a worried mother and she made pleas for her son's safe return I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please I mean please bring them home to us where they belong but investigators doubted Smith's story and believe she murdered her young children law on crimes Anette Levy spoke with the prosecutor in the case Tommy Pope earlier this year for Law and crimes crime fix Pope referenced the time he knew something was off when Smith appeared to be delighted by the camera attention instead of worried about her sons you know in a strange twist and like you said back then you know we didn't have all the different news sources we can but she was drawn from the beginning um to the opportunity and the attention of being on the media I remember I had raw footage from um Channel 7 out of Spartenburg that was the first people on the scene to the house she went to they had called David to come to the scene and they're about to do the video the camera lights are off that was back in the old days when you had a big boy like me carrying the cameras and then had the anchor person doing the work so so they um the lady the anchor person says something to the effect so David and Susan are standing in front of them ready for the camera and she says okay you know when the lights come on then I'm gonna ask you you know your name and then what happened whatever right before the lights come on Susan looks at David and kind of Giggles like it's exciting like they're gonna be on TV you know what I mean and and of course poor David looks like like a deer in the headlights he looks like a guy who was just told your kids have been stolen and so going through it there were always kind of little instances but I was going to say the media intensity um you know because ultimately she was on every National media you know interviewed like the Today Show and all that stuff and she was fine when she was getting the accolades and the and the sympathy um when they started question her a little bit she started you know cracking that's from a and so I think that media press pressure helped and then there were just slowly inconsistencies the other thing is law enforcement always runs a dual investigation if you tell me an alien took your child then I'm gonna go work on the alien case too but I'm also going to check the logical things like family members and so it it you know sometimes people say that's offensive but you have to check out the victim's family too to kind of check that off the list fortunately they kept that working and ultimately it proved they were looking in the right spot stories like this one are obviously tough but they're important to tell and part of the reason we're able to do so is from our great sponsors like upside so what's upside it's a free app yes free that gets you cash back on daily Essentials like groceries and gas it's actual real cash back money appears in your upside app that you can transfer straight into your bank account here's what you do you download the upside app then claim an offer for whatever you're buying on upside I went to 7-Eleven got some Sour 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didn't want children however the defense argued Smith had mental health issues and drove to the edge of the Lake to kill herself and her two sons but her body willed itself out of the car it didn't take long for a jury to convict Smith only 2 hours of deliberations after her conviction the prosecution argued in favor of the death penalty but the jury decided on life in prison with the possibility of Parole in 30 years bringing us to this year in 2024 we're just months away from her parole hearing and Susan Smith is fighting for her chance to be free again but for Susan Smith the freedom that she's seeking might not happen especially if her former husband has a say according to the New York Post Smith reached out to her ex begging him not to oppose her bid for release but a family member of David Smith told the post he 100% opposes her release from prison the relative said quote he has every right to stand in her way and that's exactly what he's about to do she killed his kids causing him a lifetime of heartbreak if she thinks he's going to stand by while she tries to get out of jail she's even more delusional than we even thought but even after Susan Smith was convicted she didn't clean up her act she was caught using drugs and having sex with prison guards in 2000 Smith was written up for having sex four times with a 50-year-old prison guard Houston Kagel he pleed guilty and spent time Behind Bars himself when he was sentenced to 3 months in jail then in 2001 Captain Alfred RH Jr also pled guilty and was sentenced to 5 years of probation both men also lost their jobs prison officials say Smith has stayed out of trouble since 2015 instead family members say Smith has kept busy making plans on what she'll do if she's released on parole but with her former husband opposing her release and her prior infractions how possible is it that the killer mom could actually be granted parole we're breaking that down with prison consultant Justin perer Justin welcome I think a lot of people might be shocked that Susan Smith is actually up for parole this year in just a few months and this case truly shocked the nation How likely is it that she could actually be released on parole I would say it's unlikelier because she hasn't built a record through the last 30 years in prison that would demonstrate why she's even a candidate it's one thing to say I think I want to go home I've earned it it's another to have actually built a record over the last 30 years that she could actually rely on because to me at least it doesn't appear as if she's done that work work that could influence a parole board I would say it's very unlikely she succeeds and um I know that's to the the happiness of her her ex-husband and that brings me to my next question her former husband David Smith is very against her ever getting out of prison for what she did to their sons how much of his say will actually go into account for the parole board the victim statement is probably the most significant and you could argue that he might have been a little bit more sympathetic if she had built a record over a sustained period of time we interview federal and state judges and you hear from judges or parole boards what does it take to succeed get out of prison early get probation or parole The Prisoner has to build a record that shows what have they learned why would this never happen again the devastation you've done to other people how you will be law- abiding if you get released a crime like this may never lead to a release but at least she could have shown that she is a candidate even though the husband would oppose it but his statement it is a big deal and it's the biggest reason she most likely gets denied now and for the rest of her life and the opposition from her husband as well as the P infraction she got for using drugs having sex with prison guards that coupled with her ex-husband not wanting her to be release is there really anything that's working in her favor zero other than she served 30 years thus far and calendar Pages have turned and she's 30 years removed from her crime it is a shame when people think they have earned an early release yet there's no evidence that demonstrates why they're worthy of an earlier release her behavior in prison the infractions sleeping with guards if anything show she doesn't get it she is incapable of making good decisions and a parole board is simply going to ask a question has she done anything to demonstrate that she would be law abiding on the other side unlikely if she can't follow the rules inside of a controlled prison environment no chance and do you think Susan Smith ever really changed during her trial prosecutor said she killed Michael and Alexander because she didn't want to be a mom she doesn't seem to show any remorse for what she had done and since being locked up there's been this pattern of Susan Smith seemingly having a of men in her pathway what are your thoughts she's done very little to demonstrate that she's changed that she's worthy or have earned a second chance what she is doing is what some people in prison who have to Happy Talk cliches I've th served 30 years I think I've earned another chance please don't get in the way of My Parole words are mean absolutely nothing has any record been built that demonstrates why she's a candidate for parole of course not and of course she will continue to play the victim when it's denied people are against me my ex-husband and others it's not fair that's one way to serve time it makes you feel better but all it really does is get in the way of fully accepting responsibility and acknowledging and sharing and owning that she destroyed lives and until she can acknowledge that more miserable more misery to come for her and others she continues to hurt and that hearing is just a few months away in November what could her parole hearing actually look like well I presume most people who actually want parole we have a nonprofit for example that does work in every California prison and people who are trying to qualify for an early release they demonstrate through their own efforts why how they got to prison what have they learned if they're engaged in programming how was the programming helping them if they're Reading literature why how will the work in prison help them become a law-abiding citizen after their release she hasn't done that so you can't expect her to start that over the next three months you'll probably have some lawyers some Advocate expressing why she's a candidate for release she's served 30 years but you're only successful if the prisoner has built a record that shows and from what I've read and heard she's had 30 years to build that record and instead of doing it positively and growing it and documenting what she's learned she's continued on this path of bad decisionmaking it's why the parole board denying her in my opinion will be a formality now and for the foreseeable future she hasn't earned it now say Susan Smith's for is denied would she have another opportunity to go to to go to the parole board and if so how long would that be I don't know the exact length of time but I presume it could be 5 10 years depending on South Carolina and however long it takes I know if she is denied it's probably an opportunity for her if she has some ability to introspect to say okay why did they deny me what led me here what could I do in advance of the next parole hearing to say I heard why you denied me I understand why here's a record I've begun to build that demonstrates why I am now a candidate in fact I wish I had done this for the first 30 years now I've done it for the next five or 10 the problem with that is it actually takes work it actually takes acceptance of responsibility introspection avoiding problems avoiding sleeping with staff avoiding complaining it actually takes work and not everyone is willing to do the work and until she does that more problems are coming now say by chance Susan Smith you know takes accountability for what she did she shows remorse while at the parole hearing do you think her showing maybe some last minute remorse might actually have a sway on the parole board that's why we interview judges the answer is of course not it's it's happy talk it's one thing to say I'm sorry I accept responsibility which judges are a parole board they expect to hear that it is discounted here's what they will say where is the evidence behind the remorse where is the evidence that you have changed where is the evidence that you have learned from this experience where is the evidence that you identify with the victims and families and lives you have destroyed forever she could say she's sorry it will have zero to zero significance because she has not built a record that proves that she is truly sorry it's nothing more as judges would tell you nothing more than happy talk and do you think that um Susan Smith might be delusional in a way to think that she actually could step foot out of a prison in a few months Look Hope is a good thing right you can convince yourself and that isolated environment that relief is possible that someone on that parole board will will have sympathy for her that perhaps her life has changed over the last 30 years so certainly hope hope is a good thing but if you haven't built a record there's no reason to be hopeful you're simply delusional and that's exactly what we have here she should only have some hope if she had a documented record of growth productivity Lessons Learned and building a record that shows why she's a candidate even if it's a small percentage that's when you have hope if you haven't done the work you're simply delusional do you think that if she doesn't get out of prison that she may in a way just say you know what forget it this is all a waste like I'm not going to go up for my next parole hearing you know Time After Time After Time again she just might sit with what she had done and did and stayed the rest of her life in prison do you think that's also a possibility sure some people convince themselves that I've done everything I could and they didn't reward it so why would I continue to do it if they're not going to reward it it's kind of this ends justifi mean so fixated on an end and they're only doing it because of the result they want rather than doing it for the right reasons and until she begins to to do it for the right reasons over a sustained period of time she will continue to get denied parole she will continue to play the victim and blame other people so sure there's a chance she gives up says that's a WAP nothing I do matters I would ask her what actually have you done what have you documented what have you proven over the last three years that demonstrates why you are a candidate for parole and that's a tough because it requires people to introspect and if they can own it and finally say I haven't done a damn thing hence the reason she has more struggle coming and Justin this is really just a shocking case that had happened again 30 years ago but take me back to the 990s where you may have heard of this case what was your mind and what was just the general sentiment Across the Nation about what Susan Smith did and was later convicted of well when you hear about it it's tragic and initially I was only 19 then and I immediately had huge sympathy for for the family because she pinned it on I think African-Americans who she said kidnap them so it takes waste police resources investigating people who might have committed this crime so you immediately have sympathy like my God this family lost their two beautiful young children this is awful but it just continues to show her criminal thinking how she was strategizing to try to pin this on on other people so I recall reading it my initial sympathy went to the parents and then when it was clear that she did it and one of course to to the father and the young children who were killed I I remember I remember reading it vividly I was a student at USC and I'll never forget it yeah was truly just a heartbreaking heartbreaking case Justin thank you so much really for being here we really appreciate your time before we sign you off is there anything else about this case you would like to add if you have someone in prison and they want to get out earlier and they are truly committed to making amends it's got to be documented you got to build it you got to show progress for a cynical judge or a c cynical parole board who expects you to say I'm sorry let me out if you haven't built and documented it's not going to happen do the work in convey to cynical stakeholders while you're a candidate for leniency without that expect to stay in prison longer all right Justin again thank you so much for your time today we really appreciate it thank you and Susan Smith's parole hearing is scheduled for November 4th and of course we'll continue to follow this very closely but for now that's all the time we have on this episode of sidebar check out more episodes and please subscribe to us anywhere you listen to your podcast whether it's Apple podcast Spotify or YouTube I'm Elizabeth Milner and this has been sidebar presented by law and crime [Music]