Hungary's EU presidency: What are Orban’s priorities?

Hungary only recently took over the leadership of one of the eu's top buddies as president of the Council of the European Union Victor Orban has already ruffled feathers in Brussels so what exactly is he trying to achieve [Music] hello and welcome to Round Table I'm Ender Brady now the presidency of the Council of the EU rotates once every six months hungary's Victor Orban is using his term to push through his nationalist agenda in Europe and end the war in Ukraine but will his abrasive style help or hinder his cause Victor Orban says he wants to make Europe great again and he is using hungary's six month presidency of the Council of the European Union to first and foremost protect his country's interests if we want to defend hungary's freedom and sovereignty we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels his other priority is reaching a quick end to the war in Ukraine but he's doing that his way first came Kev and a meeting with Ukrainian President Vladimir zalinsky the smiles and handshakes appear to Signal a th in their previously Frosty relations but it was his next stop that raised the fury of EU leaders Orban said meeting Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow was part of his peace Mission I wanted to find out what the shortest way to peace is a firestorm of tweets from high ranking European leaders followed charl Michelle president of the European Council not to be confused with the Council of the European Union he said Orban has no mandate to engage with Russia on behalf of the European Union European commission president urula feran said appeasement will not stop Putin and Estonian prime minister kayak kala said Orban is exploiting the EU presidency to solve confusion being one of Europe's lawmaking Buddies the council and its president have considerable influence on the region and Beyond the council negotiate and adopts EU laws together with the European Parliament based on proposals from the European commission it coordinates EU countries policies and it develops the eu's foreign and security policy based on guidelines developed by the European Council a body comprising heads of state Orban is Keen to make his mark on the world stage and in keeping with his style doesn't seem to care who he offends to achieve that let's meet our guests joining us from Dublin is Francis Fitzgerald she's a former member of the European Parliament from Ireland and a former deputy prime minister of Ireland Francis is currently an adviser to the G7 on equality in Budapest we find marann ory she is managing editor of Eurasia magazine and here with me in the studio is Paul Ingram research affiliate at the center for the study of existential risk you're all very welcome to Round Table Francis I'll come to you first from your years of experience with the European Parliament and European politics just spell out for our viewers how important the rotating presidency is and you know the kind of power it does carry well it's very important I believe from a both a symbolic you know symbolizing the values of the EU symbolizing the work of the EU so symbolically I see it as very important and countries are very proud to do the presidency and they're kind of rated on how well they have done or Happ done but it's also responsible for driving and influencing you know if you're chairing something you can do quite a bit in terms of influencing agenda so it's about it's about shaping uh the agenda and making sure EU legislation progresses and it can progress quickly or slowly depending on the presidency and the priorities uh that it has so that that's very important and driving the eu's work on legislation and I think coordinating economic policies and responding to current issues and I mean we are in such a challenging situation at present with the war in Ukraine uh they challenge us geopolitically uh not to speak of this week you know uh electing a president of the commission a president of the parliament setting up the Committees so it's very much the start time of this mandate so that's equally critical to have a a steady hand uh on the ship at this point Maran just give us the Hungarian perspective what do you think are the priorities for Victor Orban and Hungary for the six months of the presidency well the main priority of the presidency is uh competitiveness because the Hungarian U government position is is that uh Europe is lagging behind uh the rest of the world um in um in competitiveness and there are other priorities also from uh migration and economic issues but but the main focal point is uh competitiveness and uh well the the the goal of the Hungarian government uh which they have said in numerous occasions is to act as an honest broker in the next six months and to to go through um smoothly to uh um all of the the challenges uh such as the the the new Parliament the setting up of the of the new commission and this whole um whole process Paula come to you as the head of the presidency for six months can Orban change anything I mean what what are the restrictions here is it just a figurehead role really it's it's more than a figurehead role I think um as we've heard the um the occupant of this of this position has the ability to frame shape conversation debate and represent the European Union uh in certain ways and and perhaps nudge it in One Direction or or another as he's clearly trying to do and we've noticed recently what's being called freelance diplomacy he's headed off to ke Moscow Beijing and maral Lago in Florida to see Donald Trump so that was quite a whirlwind tour yes and I think what it shows is that Victor Orban is looking to step into a leadership role this is not in and of itself a bad thing and actually I think from my perspective uh the sort of things that he was saying and the responses he was getting was quite encouraging it is quite clear that the war in Ukraine is is deeply damaging to Russia and to the European Union and of course most of all to Ukraine and it's important that we look and search for ceasefire and peace opportunities and that requires people to talk across boundaries to talk to people that they may disagree with and to find Solutions or at least some kind of interim uh ways of of of having a ceasefire the talk at the moment in Ukraine is relatively positive we've had zilinski himself talk about peace proposals uh that are new uh We've also had President Putin start talking about proposals so I think it is the time now for European leaders to be talking across these boundaries and if it takes Victor Orban to do it then that's better than nobody Francis Victor Orban says that Hungary is the only country that can speak to everyone have you any concerns about him heading off and you know taking it upon himself to be the EU Chief spokesperson going to Moscow going to Beijing and also going to see Donald Trump yes I do actually I mean I I quite agree with Marian and it's good to hear about the focus on competitiveness let me just say that to begin with end because we have the draggy report coming up and I think uh Victor or would find a lot of support if Hungary leads on that whole question of especially with the changes in the United States potentially uh the economic sort of plans for Europe because we do need to have more Innovation more support for business and so on but onto your question I I think the problem in relation to the diplomacy has been doing that in some ways it is self-styled and as the chair you know as the president of the EU what other member states would like to see and this is very clear they would like to see these uh if he is going to do these visits I take Paul's point you sometimes have to go beyond obvious boundaries especially in Conflict situations but there is a feeling that he's not reflecting the foreign policy positioning of the EU at present but he takes it upon himself that the way he talks about the peace deal is not reflecting uh the au's approach to Ukraine um because it isn't peace at any price uh we do want Ukraine to win this war no question because we do believe it's an attack on democracy and so there is concern uh so much so that there is you know really serious talk about a lack of support from foreign ministers uh for the initiatives that Hungary might take in relation to their own foreign policy meetings and so on over the next period so I think there is concern I certainly see it everywhere and you know a shift you know could make a difference but the point is that really I mean this is the way that um that Orban does position himself to be different as opposed to be part of the EU and he does constantly you know put barriers and challenges in in decision making uh within the EU including in relation to support for Ukraine and Aid to Ukraine that's the most recent so from a an eu-wide perspective it is problematic and uh it seems to me that it's like that's I'd be interested in Marian's view this is how he wants to position himself and get the uh the attention that derives from that as opposed to a more Cooperative approach which would be the norm for presidencies well let's come to Marian on that Marian what's your take on the Whirlwind of diplomacy that Victor Orban recently undertook well I think that the Prime Minister he is definitely using the attention and the focus which is on Hungary um for for holding the EU presidency uh but he he made it clear that he's not speaking in the name of the EU uh because he has no mandate for that and of course uh politicians in Brussels are reminding it of him like after every trip but but but he did he did U make it clear uh that he is not speaking in uh in the name of all the members of the EU um especially because the Hungarian government and also Mr Orban is saying openly that Hungary does does not agree with the majority of the uh EU countries when it comes to the uh war in Ukraine that we have a different position um so it is about the attention and and um and the focus and and certainly he he wants to act as an um as an Envoy also as an uh honest broker so to say in in in this regard too saying that uh um his his position and his opportunity to to talk to to to all these major players players and to be on good terms with them um that this is an opportunity that that should be used rather than um dismissed well Victor orban's trip to Russia and China was warmly received in those two countries let's have a listen to first of all Vladimir Putin's spokesperson Dimitri pesov and then a spokesperson for the Chinese government there is a whole set of disagreements among the parties concerned but at least Mr Orbin is making a very ser serious attempt to understand the essence of these disagreements which is very much appreciated during the meeting President XI jingping and prime minister Orban exchanged views on bilateral relations China Europe relations and issues of common concern the two sides focused on in-depth communication on the Ukraine crisis prime minister Orban briefed on his recent visit to Ukraine and Russia president X appreciated prime minister orban's efforts to promote a political solution to the Ukrainian crisis and elaborated on China's relevant views and ideas Paul do you welcome this kind of freelance diplomacy that Victor Orban has embarked upon well it's needed um I feel profoundly uncomfortable as a Democrat looking at a semi- autocrat doing this uh this kind of diplomacy but quite frankly as I said earlier better him than nobody and the response he's getting is is constructive and I do think that it is time for us to talk uh from Europe Europe towards Russia and uh and to draw China into the into the conversation too China has a lot to bring to this uh to this peace table um zalinski attempted to pull together a very broad Coalition of of uh states in the peace Summit about a month ago and the general consensus amongst analysts is that is that it was only half successful and the reason for that was largely because it wasn't a peace Summit it was to drum up support for the continuation of the war now I understand why the Europeans are wanting to continue the war and to defend democracy and uh and and the territorial Integrity of States but I think we also have to be realistic and to see where the war is and what the realistic possibilities are and there are thousands of people losing their lives on a on a weekly basis on the front lines of that war and we cannot afford for this to just drag on and on the ukrainians have lost more than a third of their population from the country the uh C the uh state is going in the wrong direction when it comes to democracy and tackling corruption and and the war is is is a big running saw and and we just can't afford to carry it on so I think we have to compromise and I think Victor orban's uh I don't know what was said behind the scenes in private I hope that there were constructive conversations there what was said in public encouraged me me Francis can he be a useful addition to the leadership in the EU I know there are a lot of concerns about selfish interests and what Victor Orban is doing but do you think he could actually be a very key Peacemaker when it comes to getting this conflict resolved not not really I don't actually I mean I think there's a number of issues uh that I would take up from the previous conversation one is the kind of boundary confusion between what he's doing as prime minister and as president of the EU that needs to be made of the you know the presidency that needs to be made very clear that's the first point and I think he's probably playing on both uh secondly it's not that Europe wants the war to continue it doesn't obviously uh but I'd be much more comfortable if I heard prime minister Orban uh calling on Russia to stop its aggression I mean it it is Russia who has invad at Ukraine it is Russia who's advancing on Ukraine Ukraine is defending itself and of course if there are going to be peace moves I would see Joseph Burell and his successor as the person to do that I I'm not sure uh you know and of course if it works so be it but I'm not sure that uh uh prime minister Orban as both recent past positioning current positioning is going to lead to the type of breakthrough uh that Paul is suggesting is needed and of course breakthroughs are needed no doubt about that but I think you know know uh from a European perspective I mean what we want to see is actually team playing on this and you know working of course to end the war and resolve the issues uh but I would like to hear prime minister Orban call on Russia to stop its aggression and to you know make his views on Russian action clear and I think there's a lot of ambivalence been shown about that uh from him and while it looks uh dramatic going from one country to another I would be suspicious about and I certainly would need to be convinced on what that achieves maranne I noticed there is a foreign affairs Summit that Victor Orban is organizing for Budapest at the end of August and no sooner had he announced those plans than people in Brussels are announcing plans for a foreign ministers get together elsewhere to kind of pull the rug from under Orban is that what we're likely to see in the next few months that he does one thing and then Brussels Reigns him back in a little bit um certainly we can we can see it now also because the the commission said that they will only be represented on the informal Summits on um senior civil servant level so on a rather uh low level um I don't think that this attitude leads to anything positive really um because uh well um certainly there can be different opinions about prime minister Oran stance on the Ukraine war and and his um his his travels um but we can definitely say I think that the um the the whole program of the of the presidency is is organized very uh professionally um there there is no um should to say um trolling or unprofessionalism or provocation or or anything that some people um feared of so I think it would be a more constructive thing from the uh the commission side uh not not to act like a political body um but but to act like as the the the European commission and to to just get through this um this presidency Paul give us your take on two foreign affairs Summits one that he's organized and one that Brussels is saying that this is where you need to be to all the foreign ministers well well I I I do think it the intention is is not honorable I do think that we need to tolerate diversity within Europe Europe is a is a continent of difference and that this obsession with unity can sometimes go far too far uh and uh and we should be believing in Liberal democracy which means that uh even when a leader like vikor Orban is elected we need to recognize that this is a country that is is part of the European Union and deserves to be part of the European Union uh and uh and not to play these games but on the other hand there is I think um a lot to be said for tolerating the diversity so if so if foreign ministers have a good reason to get together elsewhere then they should get together elsewhere should be forced is he being deliberately undermined here yeah well I think that's almost certainly the case but that is in response to the disagreement over the issues that we've been talking about it's not uh it's not because uh um he was going to be sidelined right from the start but this is why I feel on this debate in this moment I feel very clearly I'm on Victor orban's side because we need to be on the side of talking and Victor Orban is not going to going to solve this problem he's only going to be one of a number but he is leading by example and we need to follow we need to start talking so those of us that go to Moscow and other cities like this to to to talk should not be vilified should not be excluded but should actually be a source of serious conversation people say he's too close to Vladimir Putin well yes some people say that about me too it's not true it's because those of us who actually do go to Moscow and talk about these things with with leaders that we find objectionable and detect table by some of their actions we still have to talk because the alternative is that we will end up blowing ourselves up all of us and that is a price I don't think any of us should be contemplating Francis give us your take on orban's relationship then with the Russians and Putin in particular is he too close to Vladimir Putin who knows really I mean that's the real question I think it's in his own hands uh in if he did want to really be a leader in terms of Peace uh why not do it in a way that is supportive of the EU and is in tandem with the EU um it's in his own hands to do it in that type of way he chooses not to and who knows really where what his goal is I mean Paul presents it as you know it's to bring peace I think it's more about himself actually now I would say that Hungary in the presidency I have no doubt uh that from a day-to-day uh basis of your day-to-day operation hungry will do a good job and I'm informed very reliably that as Marian says the organization and so on is extremely good but I think in terms of you know leading a a peace process I think Paul is projecting quite a lot onto Orban that I don't think he deserves uh at this point of course you have to have diversity of course when you're trying to deal with conflict situations you need creative thinking and you need leadership but certainly if that's what Orban wants to do there is a way that he could do it uh that would actually bring other people with him and I would much prefer and the EU generally would much prefer to see that if he has these Great Links with China and with Putin uh why not uh do it in a way that brings other people with him and understands the EU approach after all he is representing the EU uh institutions in this very important role of President Maran just give us the Hungarian perspective you know when you see prime minister jetting around the world how does the average Hungarian feel when there's a cost of living crisis you have migration on your front pages on a regular basis in Hungary as we do in other countries in Europe how does the average Hungarian voter feel seeing Victor Orban jet around the world doing all this International diplomacy well one of the U main main drivers of the of the crisis that we H over all over Europe is uh is the war which is for Hungary also special situation because in it is in our immediate neighborhood uh in a country where also there is a significant Hungarian M minority so I I I think the most most hungarians and also while the election results also show that most hungarians appreciate the the effort that the prime minister is doing to to somehow solve the situation of course um we know and and of course also president um prime minister uh Orban is also acknowledging that Hungary alone cannot solve the situation uh because we are only a you know um small country in in Central Europe but he can try to talk to the major players who can actually solve the situation and he has also very high hopes um for the next um US president to be uh Donald Trump and probably he will have a different approach um to this war because the the the main um problem of the Hungarian government is which which they have been saying on numerous occasions is that uh the the the general talk in European politics is that uh we should help Ukraine with with money and with weapons as long as it takes for Ukraine to beat Russia um the Hungarian position is that we should strive for at least a ceasefire and and and in a peace and and of course those who are involved can um agree on the condition but we are not interested in um in an ongoing War Paul I come back to you just on the six months presidency that Hungary now has how excited are you to see what he does I mean can he make a difference that's a big question um I I don't have a strong confidence that hungary's six-months presidency is going to make a big difference to the European Union um I think there are all sorts of reasons for that I'm not a particularly really strong fan of Victor Orban as a as a politician uh or or where he comes from in the political Spectrum I think the uh actions of the European Commission in response demonstrates that they're more interested in isolating than collaborating so I think I think the most likely outcome as somebody who's watching from afar is that there won't be a great deal of progress one way or another but my hope is that at least in this area the Vic Orban can make a difference in terms of nudging Europe in a more constructive Direction when it comes to actively seeking ceasefire opportunities because there are people in Ukraine inside the government and elsewhere that are looking for this now in ways that were more serious than they were a month or two ago and as I said earlier there are people in Russia who are also looking for this Francis maranne in Budapest and Paul here with me in the studio thank you all so much for your Insight remember you can see more discussion and debate on our YouTube channel just search for Roundtable trt world and if you like what you see there please do hit that subscribe button but for now from me Ander Brady and all of the team here goodbye and thank you for watching