Penn State White Out Game Set | Training Camp Preview!

[Music] we're back and we're a bit Rusty welcome to the BWI live show I'm Thomas Bank Carr it is July and this is the one of like three maybe just two months where we have the opportunity where there aren't things happening for people to take vacations so Fitz traded spots with me we we high-fived on the way he's in Oregon I'm back Nate Bower here though he's been here the whole time he's been holding down the fort so Nate how are you doing what I miss were you in Oregon as well yes yes I was oh wow I didn't know that that's great what part of Oregan yeah uh well we started out on the coast northern Oregon area and then we spent some time in Portland which was cool so i' never text about the Falls was about yes yeah uh I accidentally texted Nate and not my wife about some travel plans that we were trying to make during the the trip because he and I have been texting about something else work related earlier in in the day so I invited Nate to go see uh the bridal veil Falls in Oregon accidentally there's I I was uh I was in Oregon as a six-year-old maybe uh I have this like enduring uh memory of finding $20 at the bottom of a swimming pool uh but we saw all the sites that Oregon had yeah well I mean $20 in 1989 was like that was a big deal to a 5-year-old and my parents let me keep it yeah that well that that was a big deal to any adult or child in 1989 uh so we're here to talk about Penn State football and of course we have the BWI mailbag coming up at the end of the show appreciate everyone being here as I said before we left Nate always a little nervous when we take a week off because I just imagine like you know people are just going to scatter to the wind but we've got a lot of stuff coming up on the show today we got some of your questions which you can drop in the beat wi mailbag always appreciate everybody is who is here on the show including uh Willie Wally who says 1002 yes it was 10:02 when we started because when Nate was ready to go suddenly he disappeared because we have uh State College level uh issues with the internet before almost every single show but Willie I appreciate you giving us the grace of having a two-minute technical delay I I always appreciate people who have that like level of um compassion in them so thank you it it's always a CRA honestly I'm going to almost certainly not make it through this show my it something is happening literally right there it happened exactly as we were talking about so you can see live on air the things that are happening uh with Nate's Wi-Fi we're going to get him back uh with no fits we're we're flying uh without a safety net so let's get into the thing that we talk here on the show to begin and that is the Penn State white out has been decided 2024 white out game is November 9th against Washington uh and when Nate comes back he's going to tell you all the details about why that happened uh why November 9th specifically uh why Washington and the future of the white out game in this environment that pensate has been advocating for a better white out game for a conversation with the powers that be about hey let's find the middle ground let's not always put pen State's best games at noon because these things matter we're also going to go over the entire schedule uh and give you kind of the details of what happened where with the different uh themes because there's some other aspects to this that I just find interesting uh but we're going to get into all of that now Nate bow rejoining us literally as we talked about the fact fact that you were going to have some issues with your internet today and then you disappeared mid-sentence but we're in it I've explained I've set everything up you missed the awesome intro great um the white out game what are your thoughts about the the decision to play it against um uh Washington in November yeah it's it's the best of a uh well I have multiple thoughts actually so uh get your popcorn out um I I think Nate got hot takes yeah hot takes look Ohio State's out right you can't do it it's going to be the noon game on Fox there on November 2nd and I I think that I kind of dropped these hints through the course of those summer interviews that we did obviously T Frank you posted a video of Pat craft here on the YouTube site um you know where they made it plain right between craft and James Franklin they made it plain that it h it like they want it to be a night game they want the setting to be at night uh and so November 2nd noon game uh you know uh absent uh the the you know the apocalypse right like it's not going to be dark at noon for Ohio State uh when when that game is and fox and the Big 10 right they weren't there was not enough pool uh to to change that time slot based on you you you know the money and everything that's involved in that relationship but what they did have was an opportunity to I think have some conversations with the big 10 have some conversations with uh CBS and the other broadcast partners and try to formulate an opportunity uh to to kind of thread the needle which is what Washington is uh everybody's probably thinking 3:30 is cbs's time slot it is 3:30 uh do you know what time the sun sets uh on November 9th 20024 T Frank uh I do not 450 so so by by the time everything actually starts it'll be pretty much twilight uh the the fireworks are going to hit different when it's not totally dark though Nate uh you know maybe but I think look listen you got the national runnerup in in college football last year now obviously being realistic about this yeah that's a program that lost a ton of pieces and has a very challenging schedule before it even gets to Penn State so you know the likelihood of Penn State and Washington having one loss each or unbeaten each is extraordinarily low but I think it became fairly clear that they uh did not want to use that experience that white out right they're trying not to spend it on Illinois and right that is disrespectful to Illinois I don't intend it to be but I think that that's that's just the truth is Illinois probably going to be a a night game on uh you know NBC or peacock um that that's actually already I think been announced um that it's it is trending towards that 7:30 time slot but uh you know being able to work things out get the big 10 to you know kind of advocate at its behest right that it's a good thing for Penn State that kind of shows to me a an underlying hidden positive for Penn State through all of this that patcraft has the ability to advocate for Penn State to Tony patiti and get results right like to to actually have a uh to make progress right to to have a good conversation and get things done to that end so this is you're categorizing this as a win for Penn State and a uh a mile marker of achievement for patcraft because I think a lot of these things can be kind of ubiquitous or not ubiquitous they can be kind of hard to pin down of what is the impact of a of a quality athletic director what is the um how do you know if there doing a good job how do you know if they're getting these things and and the conversation around this with James Franklin and Pat CRA to us specifically has been about this compromise and you're seeing this as a compromise that because it's not at noon this is a win for Penn State I'm listen I maybe maybe a couple of things one getting a time commitment right before the season for to to to be able to have a white out game is on the low scale of things that are accomplishments for an athletic director but it's also a relatively low bar in terms of that influence that Penn State has had over the last decade or so right you know kind of kicking and screaming and and throwing a little bit of a fight publicly when patcraft took the job over starting so many years on the road uh right for the Big 10 conference slate listen wins are wins and to be able to Showcase your program with a non noon start not on a streamer right that's kind of the important element to this is is this game not being on peacock that's big that's that's a that's a that's a win that's I want to dispel another rumor here by asking you the question um the policy of non night games in November for the Big 10 is that a thing still still is that part of the consideration here okay no not not as far as I know I there was there was some reporting a few years ago my understanding is that's not a thing that if they want to do that then Penn State can do that I I don't think that it would be the program's preference necessarily to to to go that late uh but yeah they can do that if they want and there is a possibility even in the CBS time slot uh that this game could be an evening kick as well uh to read more about that go to the premium article that I had yesterday there it is there it is subscribe baby code psu1 two months for a dollar if you're checking out the blue white Illustrated YouTube channel uh this is how is exclusively for you you can read Nate's article that he posted just before the show use promo code psu1 two months for $1 that firmly gets you into the uh regular season for college football gets you into our breakdown of games our preview of games our insight into James Franklin press conferences our insight into practice where you get that premium content of hey this is what we see our unvarnished observations about what's going on at penate practice all that stuff code psu1 and it kicks off right now with Nate's observations about the white out game and how all of this came together the date I know we've mentioned this a little bit before in November Ohio state was in November so even if they use the Ohio State game is still going to be a November white out game do you have any expectations or reservations then about the uh efficacy of the white out that late in the year are are there that many white NorthFace jackets in circulation that it's going to be successful I I don't think it matters honestly enough people will try right you're always going to have a pocket one or two people here or there um that that are wearing blue or whatever don't get the memo or don't want to get the memo and that's fine right they the contrarians Among Us sure sure or I I mean look like if I was a fan would I spend extra money for a new white coat no probably not but would I also figure out a way to to slap a poncho on or something white to uh to to fit in with all my my brethren yeah of course um you would try to make that three investment if you're already making the investment to uh to go to the white out game right seems like a a uh a pretty easy bridge to cross are there any other interesting observations any other Nate Bower level insights into this that we haven't talked about I think we talked about kind of the the main things from this particular conversation and if you have any questions or comments in the chat feel free to throw them in uh if they're part of the conversation that can further our engagement here with the topic we'll definitely put those up on screen but Nate is there anything from your perspective that we haven't talked about yet that you find interesting yeah well I mean look like I think it would be um I'm curious to see when the actual TV partnership is announced on that right they they didn't announce the time Penn State uh simply put out its game themes for the season for the the home schedule for those seven games so they they didn't actually formally announce that I'll be interested to see how much time there is uh between now and when that is uh you know kind of formally unveiled because I think everything that I've seen thus far has been revealed by the networks themselves Fox right I mean if you look through that schedule there t Frank there there are not a lot of guarantees right it's West Virginia and Bowling Green are the two that have a secured time slot uh Illinois I think is uh has has a few yeah 3:34 or 7:30 so it can start anywhere in like a 4H hour window yeah yeah so it's it's it remains this interesting back dealing right there's a draft involved that no nobody's quite sure exactly exactly how it works I I found a curious that patcraft even said in that interview that part of it part of this negotiation process for them was a learning process of how the television networks actually operate I mean they they trade picks right like they it's an actual draft so fox has one two four seven eight and can trade the eight pick for next year all that stuff so it's uh it's a very interesting uh methodology for how they figure all stuff out so we'll just run this down for people listening on the podcast if you are watching here on the YouTube channel you can see it already but here are the full game themes September 7th it's the thawn game uh you have the military appreciation day the next weekend uh I'm sorry there's a byee in there and then military appreciation day is September 21st uh versus Kent State um then you have September 28th homecoming against Illinois homecoming is typically generations of greatness as well right so that's when there they'll wear their timate alternate uniforms uh UCLA the stripe out game and then of course the helmet stripe game which is the sneaky white out as James Franklin has called it or somebody has referred it to him as that and he agreed that it is kind of a sneaky white out uh versus Ohio State November 2nd um and then Senior Day obviously the last day of uh the year or the last game of the year November 30th against Maryland uh do do these other stripe outs and helmet stripes and do they lessen the white out in any way to you I know we're talking about what people are wearing in the stands but it is about like the spectacle it is about the singularity of the one event and when you're doing all these different themes it it I I I don't know I've always thought like they all kind of feel like plus ones in this conversation maybe I I think that's fair but I also think that anything that you can do as an organization to get people talking about the event thinking about the event and Performing action on the event in advance of the event is a good thing that's a that's a good thing for your program because all of the messaging all of the stuff that starts really on Sunday the week before of hey this is a a stripe out game right what section are you sitting right now you're looking now you're you're checking all that stuff out you're trying to find out what uh H H how that impacts you what section your seats in where are you the blue are you the white whatever whatever it is uh I do think that there is some value there in terms of setting the table early in the week of a sense of purpose and unity right I mean I don't know like some of the stuff sounds cheesy moviees but added all together cumulatively yeah I think it makes an impact I think it's I think it creates a buzz that uh that Penn State thrives on in a lot of ways it does matter when you're good it does matter when you're having a really good season and that's the next question are the nitty lines going to be any good we're going to be previewing that right now with our training camp preview then pen gets going on uh J goodness I Amy I am R July 31st I almost said August 31st but that's when the game is that's when West Virginia very late yeah they would be completely unprepared uh we're doing a training camp preview there are three Wednesdays between now and and uh the start of training camp so we are going to be previewing the the whole shebang here over the next couple of weeks because Nate's going to be gone for a week Fitz is gone this week we just I want to make sure that we're covering our bases as we get into the real meat of what's Happening of Penn State's preparation for the 2024 season so we're going to be playing a game of Fillin the blank and normally I have some fun Graphics I have all kinds of things but today we're just doing it this way uh where where I'm going to put this up on the screen Nate and you are going to give your comments and I will fill in the blank and people can play along in the chat or at home so on offense we're going to answer a couple of questions here uh we're only getting to the offense today so Nate blank needs to have a great training camp for the offense yeah I I really went outside the box on this one Drew Shelton you could have given a a dramatic pause and just said Drew Drew Shel yeah yeah yeah all right why I well first of all my expectation is that Drew Aller will have a great training camp I I think that he's locked in he's ready he all all of those elements seemed to be in place for uh Penn State's starting quarterback yeah Shelton however is a guy who hasn't played football in a really long time uh right there's going to be some Rust there there's going to be some you just got to shake that stuff off and I think that training camp provides him an opport and look it's not as though he's not working right now he is uh he he has been back he's been cleared for right what uh I don't know a month maybe full full full goish um but when you consider what that means that he's been cleared full go for a month that means that he wasn't cleared for six months yeah it also means less for an offensive lineman to be cleared full go in July as opposed to April when there's contact and there's the ability to get in some significant work as a football player because yeah it's been a bit since he's been through that particular process I also think it's very interesting when we have these conversations especially about offensive lineman and I remember having this conversation with you here on the show about Landon Tang wall um when he was injured in an off season and then had some complications and I just had the question how much work can he be getting to be the best version of himself in training camp and the season if you don't have those six months during the offseason to weight train get stronger and do the process in order because I don't think people understand when it comes to like doing it right in the wait room it takes time most humans can only gain about 2 lbs of lean meat lean mass a week and if you can maximize that through the course of an offseason you can make some significant gains I apologize I think it's you lose two pounds of fat uh per week it's less when it comes to lean muscle mass so it is a long slow process and so if you're an offensive lineman who needs to gain a lot of muscle that you lost either through atrophy from injury or just the wear and tear of a season because you cannot be building and performing at the same time how how much can you be at your Peak if you don't have th that off seon to develop and I tried to asked Chuck Losi this one time and he basically like gave the the answer of I'm not goingon to answer that question so I think it's very important that Drew Shelton has a great training camp to show like he's on schedule Nate from a physical perspective and from a uh from a talent perspective because last season we didn't see the best version of Drew Shelton so you mentioned he hasn't played football in a long time he hasn't played good football ball in quite a while because of whatever injury he had that he was playing through last year so I guess what is your projection for him you know like do you think that this is a likelihood are you like he's a he's a big question mark or do you think that it's not likely he has a great camp and solidifies that tackle position no I think I well I I think he will solidify the tackle position no question I think he will be the starting left tackle for this team this year uh you know the height what's his ceiling how good can he be I think pretty good I I don't think that it's a right like an overbearing concern over anything lingering that's why you get surgery right that's why you take care of it is to right to not have that linger so uh I I do think that he's in a position where he can have a good to great training camp and I think that that's the expectation right I I think that this is a program that understand FS that there are there are pieces on this offensive line that have shown enough to Warrant confidence that like they've demonstrated in games against Big Ken competition against SEC competition they have shown things that are worthy of optimism but you gotta you gotta do it gotta put it all together you gotta put it all together and you got to do it over a whole season um and so I I think that that is a little bit of a the that's the proposition at stake right now for for pen St football on this offensive line is yeah the potential is there to be pretty good to great but there's also the potential for that not to happen if lingering concerns if if things that are were unresolved previously don't come to fruition I I'm I'm going to be I I'm going to throw one out here um it's not my answer because Drew Shelton is the answer as the starting left tackle very important but JB Nelson needs to have a great Camp as well I think for him him personally and for the conversation we have about the depth of the interior of the offensive line and the flexibility he provides as That Swing tackle um that his status has been more more volatile than Shelton Over the last several seasons so uh not the receiver position nobody in comes up in that conversation here in the training camp conversation with our first question let's move on to the next one penate offense the penate offense will be ready for week one against West Virginia if blank happens I really struggled with this too Frank so I'm hoping you'll give me what do you think because I'll tell you what I think but I I was just curious where your head was when you put this question down yeah so I guess what I'm thinking is they're installing a new scheme right and we've seen before really talented offenses don't click out of the box this this has a 2016 Vibe of they're going to face a competent opponent in the first month of the season and if they aren't to a certain level of cohesion and understanding of the scheme and understanding of each other you know continuity on the offensive line Etc then they have the opportunity to drop a game against West Virginia where I think that they're pretty clearly the better team because that's kind of how Football goes sometimes so in those factors of offensive line jelling together the uh the the receivers understanding their assignments Drew Aller understanding the offense Drew Aller finally putting it all together what are those what's the thing that needs to happen during training camp so that they come out of the the gates with enough juice to get past West Virginia team that is a good team okay so this kind of aligns in that I think that everybody needs to be healthy and that's a stupid thing to say I get it but I I think they can't sustain a loss of a starter at really on the offensive line but but particularly I'm thinking of all the obious suspect Trey Wallace has to be good uh Tyler Warren I mean and I'm not saying that any of those guys are hurt right now they're not but I'm saying you got to be able to get through training camp with those pieces because I think that that's the biggest part of that conversation about these two teams is if Penn State has its best players it should be able to win that game based on its best players doing the things that those players do they shouldn't have to have an overly complex schematic approach to that game to beat West Virginia it is a classic strength vers strength and weakness versus weakness right I I don't think that anybody's looking at West Virginia's defense this season thinking that they're going to be lights out there there's a lot of questions to that defense uh and certainly I have more to learn about them before div in too deeply but if the the thinking right now is yeah if Pence if Penn State gets the ball into Nick Singleton's hands in space should have success yeah right if if Drew Aller if Drew Aller doesn't throw interceptions in that game they should have success Trey Wallace makes some plays uh all of those high expectations pieces that Penn State has if they are healthy if they get through preseason camp good they should be in a they should be in a pretty good position to uh to to compete in that game Beach wine guy has his answers here in the chat we'll see how they line up with uh with NES he says the wide receivers need to have a great training camp the Penn State offense will be ready for week one against West West Virginia If evolution happens uh he says after an offseason of talk Drew Aller emerges as the team leader on offense and the wide receiver room takes the biggest step in in August so wide receivers under the microscope so Nate we're going to get into the final two questions here question number three after an offseason of talk blank emerges as a team leader on offense it's true it's true it it has to be Drew it's Drew Shelton no no sorry I'm I'm playing defense against a good show today clearly I Know I Know It uh look we we have had this conversation we can continue to have this conversation I think that it's what he wants I think think Drew Aller wants to be that type of leader I think pen State wants that of him I think his teammates want that of him all of those wants are in place it's simply a matter of execution and again as a uh you know middle-aged overweight guy sitting on the sideline it's like super easy to talk about as though I have any idea I don't I I don't know all of the things that go into having Charisma with teammates and demanding a standard that uh gets the best out of people right I mean that's that's the whole thing for him is yes he has a best that I don't think any of us have really seen so far that needs help from the players around him but inversely he also through his performance needs to unlock the best out of all of those pieces because that's that's kind of the reality of what we're talking about with this team this year is Nick Singleton doesn't need a ton of help KRON Allen doesn't need a ton of help uh Trey Wallace doesn't need a ton of help if those guys are doing what they do Tyler Warren if those guys are doing what they do Omari Evans like if they are doing what they do and Drew simply performs and complement that exceptional talent that those guys have Penn State Penn State should have a very good season this year and Andy Kon Nikki is a massive he he's yeah Puppeteer in all of that but if those things work together you I just go back to what James Franklin said in the spring about the receivers they have talent they can catch the ball they can run they could they could do they can do things that are exceptional in certain ways but they've got to do it consistently and this is the year to prove it so it's interesting I I've been going through in my mind the offense and trying to kind of single out like who benefits the most from Andy cotal Nikki scheme and Nate I keep coming back to everyone all all of them all of them because I can give you specific answers why the offensive line was put in a bad position last year where it was basically like the offensive scheme leaned on them to be perfect because there was not a whole lot of the there were things done from a schematic standpoint that were like tricky right that like oh we're going to do something that you don't expect of we're going to uh run from this formation to the left side of the offensive line instead of the right side of the offensive line instead of like Hey we're gonna run outside Zone with action pulling Defenders out of the box or except whatever whatever thing that Andy kikki does that creates positive angles for the offensive line to get to the second level or to get to their block where these guys should as long as they execute properly and uh Nick Dawkins talked to Sean Fitz that article at bluee illustrator. comom great conversation about the understanding the scheme being on point understanding how to work together from the offensive line perspective they might benefit the most from Manny kcki but then we talk about the receivers and how they've been bagged on for eight months and getting them open with proper spacing matchups again angles opening up zones with different things they could have I I again the preview that I wrote yesterday of open targets that they got last year versus the ones that Andy cotal Niki got and manufactured for his offense uh at Kansas is like per capita and quality like he got more explosive opportunities for the Kansas offense that generated big plays than Pense was able to get in their offense and then you talk about the quarterback the Synergy of all of that and Nick Singleton like getting running lanes for Nick Singleton Nick we've talked about this get him on train tracks and let him run fast Devin Neil at Kansas I was listening to a podcast the other day he is a guy that is people are talking about as a first round pick partly because he's got the talent partly because Andy Co Nikki put him in position to be a star like those are those are you go through Tyler Warren is going to be featured in the offense all of these players have the the stand benefit from this particular scheme as long as they all can get on the same page and operate it correctly so now that I'm done filibustering last question the blank room is the position that needs to take the biggest step in August yeah it's it's receiver it is all right you just anything else is disingenuous right I I I don't think anyone would say I mean the running backs are probably the best unit if not the team then certainly the offense uh I think that much is clear the tight ends are there uh quarterback I think you could make maybe a little bit of a conversation the offensive line yeah has has big strides to make in terms of cohesion with three starters absent from last year's team but end of the day this offense is going to be predicated on whether or not those receivers step up and those receivers it's not it's not just August it's need to take the biggest step from January to August I I'm not trying to put you on the spot here and I think your answer is correct but people always want to know more so if you had to pick one receiver who needs to take that step who needs to evolve from a guy that has the talent to a guy who can do it which receiver do you think it is Omari Evans why I mean I agree I know why but why he's super super fast he's really fast and that changes things it changes things for the offensive coordinator it changes things for opponent's defensive coordinator changes things for the back end of the defense it it just it changes things and so if Omari can harness his talent as a very fast human being and turn that quickness into a well-rounded receiver who can like you can't just burn people you have to catch it occasionally at the end of that burn and so he's got and and it can't just be that he's only a deep threat too right he has he has to be a well-rounded receiver but he has this opportunity to fundamentally change how everything looks for Penn State right how it looks for Drew Aller how it looks for Nick Singleton how it looks for KRON Allen how right all of these different pieces if Omari Evans can make that progress if he can he can become that guy I think it really does uh it just it just radically changes what the potential is what the high-end ceiling is for this Penn State offense this season I I think from a talent perspective you've mentioned Penn State the receiver room is worse off without Keandre Lambert Smith there from a talent perspective from an ability perspective Omari Evans is the one guy who can replicate some of that threat the second thing that I I was interested in I don't remember who said it to you or if it indeed was to you because you talked to so many people in June and July uh I think it was Drew all was talking to you about Amari Evans where he said he's not the biggest guy in the world but he's physical it it did was that the conversation can you just kind of retell how that the context of that because I've always felt that about Amari when he's got like he plays and fights but he hasn't had the tools to unlock all of those skills cuz he just kind of gets shovey you know we saw that a couple of times in a couple of games so I guess what was the context of the conversation around Amari Evans with that particular comment yeah just that that he won the quote that stood out was he can run whatever 40 he wants meaning he he's as fast as you can be right like he just he's just super fast's he's one of the fastest guys on the team uh and that counts for something at this level that is that is a different maker you can separate yourself with that speed but he has had I think the way that Allard described it is that he he has had trouble kind of making that transition into that consistency of of being that every down receiver of of having all of the tools of not getting down on himself I I think that that's part of it is the frustration that emerges when you don't make the progress that you think you should be making but the but the key to this to all of this in my mind is what you just said about Keandre kandre is not there the door is open you've got this huge window this huge door that is there for Omari to walk through and create what he has envisioned for himself but hasn't come to fruition yet in his career that that is there for him this season for the taking if he can make those we have a great mailbag section uh with some good questions that we're going to spend a little bit of time on if you got any questions drop them in the chat now because we are here we are now into my favorite part of the show where we get to answer your questions and you get to ask the things you want to know in the BWI mailbag [Music] [Music] so our first question today is a what if from Poncho 570 he says a game of what if what if Julian Fleming and Nolan Rie came to Penn State from the get-go would there be uh would they be where would they be in their development as players what would be the effects of the players currently or no longer on the roster or generally what do you think of this situation if both both of those five-star players from Pennsylvania had chosen the nitty Lions originally instead of going elsewhere Nate uh a lot of different ways to go with this what jumps to your mind initially that's tough that is tough I I think it is well first of all they play different positions so that's that's your first challenge uh is Nolan Ruchi beating out Kaden Wallace or Olu fashanu either of the past three years no I I mean correct me if I'm wrong right like tank I don't no no so um I think that it it would have the biggest difference on this year specifically uh where you have Kaden Wallace oh here's okay here's how I I would phrase this Kaden Wallace we had the conversation about him as a guy who had all the talent of the world but needed to seemed like he need to be pushed a little bit and when Drew Shelton came along finally his last year he put it all together and had a really good year as a tackle if you've got Nolan Ruchi from the class of 2021 does that change the trajectory of Kaden Wallace and then secondarily I guess the thing I would say with Ruchi is you would feel very different about this year 2024 if Nolan Ruchi had been in the program for as long as he has and would be I think a more comfortable step into the role as opposed to I don't think we say this enough Anthony donko is a red shirt freshman who they are expecting to step in and man a tackle position and is on trajectory to be the best offensive lineman on the team from a production standpoint with his talent and what the you know the the curve looks like on his development that is still an absolute speculation so if you had Ruchi you might have a different battle and you might have more of that Ascension we also might not have the conversation about Drew Shelton where everyone kind of is looking with side eyes at Drew Shelton of okay there's another wild card on the team did Drew Shelton have to play initially as a freshman did he have to play last year while injured these are the conversations I guess from a depth perspective it's all about depth it's not necessarily about changing the starting lineup to me I think it's more about what is the effect of depth at tackle on Penn State's roster because Nate they haven't had depth ever at that position Y no I I I agree uh he's he's also a little bit different from I see Fleming as a to Penn State's benefit I mean certainly it hasn't been to Penn State's benefit that they did that they haven't had some of what he delivers right they they they very much could have used more enthus I Astic and willing blocking receivers over the past couple of years right like that that would have made uh specifically last year that would have been very big for Penn State because that was at times one of the big issues that they had uh in the in the running game yeah I think that the fifth year element brings a desperation is the wrong word but Ury clock urgency for sure yeah when when the clock runs out and he he has not I feel like we've had this conversation where I'm I'm subtly tempering expectations for him yeah and a lot of Penn State fans who haven't been really paying attention to his career are remembering five stars and always he's coming to Penn State and he was of of course he was carried at uh Ohio State you're you're dealing with two top 10 picks right on on among those receivers he still started uh but I think it's look there's no way that anyone would say based on what his expectations were coming out of high school that his career has gone as planned that's why he's at Penn State this year y uh is is to maximize this to to to have again just like I was talking about om Ari to have this open opportunity and to step through it and produce the types of numbers to stay healthy to to do all of the things that haven't really happened for him with consistency through his career at Ohio State he he gets that chance now and it's on a one-year deal yeah it if that's the guy he wants to be if that's the guy he can become yeah we'll do it to me the question is Nate do you believe in fate and predestination when it comes to Nolan Ruchi and I say that I say that in a way to make you laugh but that's the question do you believe that his injuries were predestined because that's the conversation with Nolan Ruchi excuse me with with uh Julian Fleming because those have had a serious effect on his abilities his physical abilities from what I understand not that he was ever going to be a superstar speed receiver but if you are trying to overcome that and you lose that incrementally over time then you're in a real pickle so if he came to Penn State originally with the strength and conditioning program would would fate have smiled more kindly on him and I think that that is something that uh nobody knows no nobody can know that there's a if there's a higher power it is that's that's the being that understands that outside of that we're all guessing um but yeah I I think that there would be conversations about leadership and maturity but then how much leadership and maturity does he gain at Penn State and how much did he learn at Ohio State like what are the those are some of the things we can't know um and it's the same it's the same Kad and Wallace conversation to a certain extent is what how would things have again I mean you can see this line of demarcation post Parker Washington yeah that that okay Parker was there and Mitch Tinsley and uh after that there was a vacuum that Keandre was expected to step into and in some ways did but I mean look like cter still had over 50 catches lash he had 85 targets yeah yeah like I I just keep thinking that uh people are uh you know maybe underplaying what the impact is there the product uh the productivity that he had he he was productive and he could have been more productive if there had been better play in certain positions from the first year starting quarterback yeah there also could have been better play from him in a bunch of other situations so like yeah that is a Nate that is going to be a conversation and a show that we could do some other time when discussing the merits of his 85 targets and however many catches he got last year uh let's go on to the next question from Kobe King from David WG about Kobe King he says is Kobe King the most underrated nitty lion entering 2024 feels like he's primed for an excellent season in year 4 I have some thoughts I can go first but I always like to give the guest of the show the star of the show the opportunity to respond uh to the question and have the the the corrected answer so what do you think it's a good question I think he is I think he's kind of underrated he's not in the in the Consciousness that maybe he should be I think he should like to me if I think about underrated I think Jaylen Reed I I don't think anybody appreciates how good he is and how important he is to this defense this season but uh you know I could throw out some some defensive tackle names that that probably would be in the conversation there that that uh you know are not at at the Forefront of the conversation but yeah Kobe's in there for sure and he's he's very clearly demonstrated himself at I mean just think about the conversation that everyone was having two years ago going into the preseason of Tyler Elon and Kobe King it was right Kobe needed to make up ground because Tyler Elon knew where to be when to be there right he he understood he conceptually he got it a little bit better because he was on a one year he had a one-year Head Start Right that and that helped him but very clearly Kobe has has has passed Tyler and you know I don't want this to turn into like slamming Tyler ston Tyler elston's going to be a big part of this defense this year he will continue to provide help there uh you know as Kobe's Reserve but Kobe King is yeah he's a guy who's going to be there in the middle and he's going to be important to what they do I I go back and forth on this Nate um I'm not going to get into the the Kobe King Tyler ston thing because that's probably not productive uh I think Kobe King is a great answer I think your point of Jaylen Reed and his impact on the defense is also really important uh but if it weren't for Abdul Carter changing positions we would be talking way more about Aman vanover we should be talking way more about Aman vanover he has been one of the most effective defensive ends I keep using this per capita on the team over the last two years he never has had a full starters quality amount of reps but when he's on the field the data says he is one of the most disruptive uh defensive lineman on the team and that is on par with chop Robinson and Adisa Isaac in terms of disruptive plays tackles for loss pressures immediate wins Big quick wins all those things that matter when it comes to defensive line play he's really good at shedding blocks and blowing up the plan for the offense but because we're talking about Abdul Carter transitioning to defensive end everyone assumes Abdul is the deao starter now I have been your your Julian Fleming is my Abdul Carter of let's just let him play football first before we anoint him I understand he is a super athlete and I've said this offseason I know I'm in shut up nerd territory that's fine but I also think that there are things that need to happen before he turns into Micah Parsons the way everyone thinks he's going to so like there's a there is a there's a line there of a to me am has done it I have seen him do it I'm excited to see him do it in a more full-time role but we're talking about Abdul Carter yeah uh I think there there is an opportunity for everyone to have success under and have stats with but look like to your point sometimes I I it sounds like we're you know coming in with like a hot take Deon Barnes would say the same thing that you just said he has said the same thing that you just said not specifically about a means relation to to Abdul Carter but yeah pumping the brakes on Abdul Carter hey let's let's keep things one day at a time for Abdul Carter and allow him to go through the development that has to occur taking on a new POS like that's hard yes it's hard stuff and he's tremend fabulously talented and he will have great season there's no question in my mind that he's going to have a great year this year but I bet you there's going to be some games at the beginning of the year where people say oh how come how come abdor I mean what what was it wasn't it last year that chop didn't have a a sack right away or yeah these these storylines uh get fogged in my head at this point but right sometimes when the stats aren't there right away people think oh he's not they're not as productive or not doing sacks are overrated yes sacks are right like all of that stuff uh I I I do think that abdulah is going to have some some Growing Pains there's going to be some stuff there for him to uh to get better and like you said Deion Barnes won't hesitate to use those guys I mean vanover yeah Smith vilbert is gonna get some play there right you'll just have to see uh you'll just have to see how that goes and I do think that there is a a world where they still use Abdul the same way where he's a movable chess piece and he's still getting like maybe he plays defensive end on base run downs but on third down he's still rushing over the a gap and suddenly he's still getting those matchups against running backs and just destroying people and getting those Flash plays and so the development doesn't have to take place because you have guys that can Rush from The Edge you have guys that can do that and he can still be that wild card on the defensive front so we could all be right Nate and no one will see it that way but we could all still be right about that speaking of defensive ends speaking of chop Robinson speaking of uh recruiting now Blackheart 8541 says out of the current 2025 defensive end commits who do you think has the most potential or highest ceiling uh I'm going to not put desan Bernett and lvar Arington I second in this conversation because then we would have five um I also think it's pretty simple Nate Max Granville I just did a breakdown of his game one of his high school football games uh over on the blue white Illustrated Message Board where I go through I find a YouTube uh video that we all can watch I put it on there and I go through and I say like you know I break down plays that are relevant why they're relevant what he shows on those plays and to me Max Granville whoa just just wow I for a guy and we throw the term out undersized a lot um he can be 225 or 255 he can be the same size as chop Robinson but the violence with which he plays and the strength in his hands his ability to use power and speed together uh is is better than most of the defensive ends that I've seen coming out of high school where he understands how to use leverage and he doesn't have the longest arms in the world but he knows how to get quickly into the chest of an offensive lineman and shock them and then disengage as long as he learns to work with his hands through the rest of the rep he can be a guy that does it all I keep I I talked to Lon tangwell about this on his show where we broke down Abdul Carter we've had this conversation I think Abdul can be that guy too where he could be a complete defensive end that uses speed to power he's got the size he's got the violence in him he's got the power he just needs to learn how to do those things Max Granville his dad's an NFL offensive lineman or defensive lineman he knows how to do those things right now he can set up tackles go inside go outside go through them I'm very high on Max Granville and shocker he's one of the best uh players in Penn State's class and you're really high on him but there's a lot of times where you know kind of there was there was Nuance toy then a Sutton where he's going to be a very specific defensive end there's no Nuance here he's just awesome and I think like I'm I'm very excited to watch Max Granville Play because I'm always wanting to see something I haven't seen before in a Penn State uniform something I haven't evaluated on a weekly basis chop Robinson was the best speed athlete at that position he's the best speed rusher I've seen with the Nittany Lions like from the defensive end position Michael Parson's best athlete best overall football player sure but chop at the position was better at getting to the quarterback with his tools Max Granville has more right now than chop displayed we'll see where it goes we'll see if all those things line up uh I'm just going to move on because I'm assuming you have deep thoughts about defensive end recruit I I believe you um okay so Philip in the valley this one might be one I I answer to here at the end he said in light of uh Fitz's story about the offensive line what can we expect different from the scheme from a scheme perspective from the offensive line and Andy Cal Nikki's offense so if you haven't read it go read Sean Fitz's article it was an interview he did with uh with uh Nick Dawkins where he talked to him about leadership and all those things we've talked about getting the offensive line on the same page to me Nate the conversation was about the Freshman it was about making sure the freshmen are on the same page and they understand the Playbook not necessarily that there's going to be these massive changes that cause the offense to have to relearn a bunch of different things I do think that there are some changes there will be things that from a technique perspective or from a style perspective that they have to get on the same page but from a Playbook perspective James Frankl has talked about this largely from a play perspective from what are we running they're running the same thing and the point of this offseason was not only are we running the same thing we're going to call it the same thing so that you don't get confused and just getting the freshman on board who weren't here last year that don't have that context they understand what the hell everyone's talking about when it's called in the Huddle from that just broad perspective I do want to get your final thoughts here on the show you know on this question and then get us out of here like what do you expect from the offense because this is the this is the most critical thing to me do you expect the offense to be Harmonious by the first game of the season or good enough to get through that first month where they are Co a cohesive [Music] unit just being realistic I think I think there's going to be some growing pains for sure uh harmonious yeah I I don't know look is this something where I think Penn State is Gonna Come Out And Drop 55 at West Virginia no no I don't I don't that I think that Penn State's defense will continue to be good and that Penn State won't have that mindset necessarily in that game I I I I don't anticipate them playing that way and taking that approach from the start I I I do think this is this is what's going to be very interesting to me is how much of last year's hey you only have to do so much here don't mess it up carries over from last year to this year because it was a big I think that it's a fair point to say that it burned them when they needed it yes you cannot I personally believe you cannot be an offense and have that mentality you cannot play conservative and dictate to the the opposing defense at the same time playing to your defense the way I said it last year is if you're going to go full Iowa you have to go full Iowa that means punt when it's obscure that means kick only field goals that means be so conservative that it is maddening to watch and Penn State couldn't go full Iowa from a schematic perspective or from a decision-making perspective and I if they tried to do that again like the point of an Cole Nicki being here is that so they can be ground and pound play to the defense a little bit better but also be explosive so I I I I agree if they have that mentality that's a that's a recipe for disaster again yeah I don't I don't think they will but I do think that there will be a ramping up process to it yeah I I don't think it's a coincidence that that James fragin brought up Joe Morehead in his interview this summer with me like specifically and he named Joe Morehead well if if you're saying that you're incorporating elements of what Joe Morhead did you know eight years ago whatever it was then there's going to be that flare there's going to be some of that to this there's G to be some of that taking Andy colen Nikki talked about it about taking it to defenses so yep we'll see we'll see what happens it'll be fun all that's going to happen here in a couple of weeks they're going to start on that process subscribe to blue white Illustrated so you don't miss any of that if you're watching the video at this point please like the video subscribe here to the YouTube channel we'll be back we're back up and running we're going to have the Full Slate of everything you back from the blue wide Illustrated YouTube channel now that I'm back sutured into this seat we'll be back tomorrow with more at 10:00 a.m. we'll talk to you then [Music]