Edward Burns Interview on The Fitzgerald Family Christmas Movie

please welcome editor at Huffington Post Chris Rosen and tonight's guest filmmaker and actor Edward Burns thank you how you doing hello yikes so nice to have you here at the Apple Store and St we just watched a trailer for that it's a great movie I watched it last night uh congratulations thank you very much so I know you know I've seen you say that it's a very personal film and stuff I mean what was the impetus for like the script and stuff and like how did like how' it all come together uh a couple of different things um you know I'd worked some people probably heard this I worked with Tyler Perry over the summer Tyler had rewatched Brothers McMullen and basically said you know why is it that in 15 years you've never returned to the Irish American workingclass milu of your first two films and he said you know look at what I'm doing you should think about super serving your Niche you know the audience that likeed those first two films if you made another one probably would be what would thank you for it um and I thought you know he's right why haven't I gone back to sort of re-explore that world and those themes so I sat down I opened up my laptop I just wrote interior the Fitzgerald's kitchen day started writing and I didn't know where the story was going to go um but I had some loose idea that I wanted to do something um uh about a big Irish American family I have a friend who's one of nine another friend who's one of 12 they've all always told me these crazy stories about what it was like to grow up in a big house like that um so that was sort of my my launch off spot um and uh I guess that was it right okay and I know with your last film newlyweds it kind of came together really quickly because I remember I saw it Tri it closed Tribeca and you kind of put that together in almost like a few months it seemed like so with this one was it was the process a lot longer I mean like had it yeah I mean new Weds you know the the our Our intention with that film was we wanted to try and make a super micro budgeted film you know we we shot it on the 5D we did a three-man crew the whole whole idea was you know we're going to work with something resembling a screenplay but you know much more of you know script but a lot of scenes just outlined and and kind of let's explore the thing as we went this given that it was so personal so close to home I did not want to attempt that I wanted to go in with a you know a finished screenplay um and also the shooting style of this film you know we wanted to make sort of a uh uh a sort of more class film so you know um we spent a lot of time my DP and I William rexer um we you sometimes you'll think about like all right given what the story is given the the tone the themes what is the look that we want to go after and are there other films or filmmakers that have done that and we kind of thought that Sydney LT was a guy that we should take a look at and when we were screening some of his early films we came across um Prince of the City which we had both loved but in that LT style is you know it's very straightforward I mean it's classic compositions not a hell of a lot of camera movement uh and a lot of it takes place in Suburban working class living rooms kitchens bedrooms so we thought all right this is an interesting kind of um pallet for us to sort of work from um but you know uh that said so a much longer process getting the film ready and getting it up right and I mean you like that like I'm sure you like that like going back and forth between Styles and stuff because it is a lot and even the editing on this is a lot different than like it was in Newly Weds cuz you had like the husbands and wives jump cuts and stuff in that one and this one it's a lot more the scenes are playing out I just think it's it's kind of cool yeah you know I mean my stuff tonally uh is can pretty much all be the same you know it's like I'm not the kind of a filmmaker that likes to jump from genre to genre um you know I like you know they say about jazz musicians you know you got to own your tone uh I I kind of like my tone that said you know uh with those kind of dialogue heavy um character-driven personal stories um you know you we don't really get to do much and also when you make micro budgeted films or lowbudget films you know you don't get to play with the camera the way you know uh the big guys do if you will so it's a matter of just finding sort of like the little shifts that you can you can play with right so when you're writing this I mean obviously like you know you you seen the trailer there brings together a lot of people who've been in your films before both like you know Mike and like Connie from the early stuff and then like Carrie and Caitlyn Fitzgerald and from the newer stuff so I mean when you're writing this do you are you writing for these actors or are you hoping that they'll all do it I mean how did that work like you like oh I want Mike I'd love Mike to play this part or Connie would be great for this I mean how does that work for you yeah I think you know um sometimes I'm writing with a specific actor in mind sometimes um I'm you know I'm I'm writing and I think all right there are two or three different characters uh that maybe Carrie bashet could play and then during the process you start to sort of hone in on the one that all right this is going to be right for Carrie this will be right for Caitlyn uh with this film I mentioned those two because I definitely was writing for those two um and then I'd also spoke uh a couple of months earlier with Mike mclone about potentially I had started to think about a Brother's McMullen sequel right so I started to talk to Mike about that I mentioned this other thing that I was working on Fitzgerald and he said well you know why wait till then you know is why don't we work together sooner and I thought you know great so I started to write that part for him uh then when I had them uh because the film is about a family reunion I thought let me take a look at all the films I've done I've done 10 films now and why don't we make the casting sort of a uh you know like a film my film making family reunion and we went through every film that I've made and cast at least one actor from every film and I think there's Maybe two or three actors in the whole piece that I had never worked with before but everybody else is our old friends and there kind of the added bonus we got from that is the fact that the minute we started to shoot you got the sense that these people had some real history right um and that's due to the fact that people like Mike mclone and Anita Gillette who's also and she's the one you know they've known one another for 17 years right Carrie and Caitlyn have become great friends so while they're not siblings they do have real friendships in real history and I think I mean this is probably going to sound crazy but I also think it helps that they they all kind of based on that chemistry it's almost like they're Rel you know they look you start to think they look like related it's like this is believably a family which is fun I think like at least for I like I said I could be completely crazy for thinking that but they do kind of look alike um it gets even weirder because someone said on set that Anita Gillette looks kind of like my mom okay and then someone said like Ed Lauder plays the father they're you know like his manner isms were similar to my dad so I was like oh maybe I'll use one of my parents old photographs in the film and then instead I thought you know years ago I cut together their wedding footage maybe there's a place to use that in the film so that clip where they uh you know I I wrote that scene late after we were already on set and I was seeing the similarities and worked it in that way right now I know we don't have that that clip but we do have a clip of uh Caitlyn and Carrie in the car right and I think we could run that that'd be great so you can tell it's not Love Actually it's not that kind of Christmas movie but you were saying we were talking about this before uh this started how that's like I mean that's a key scene in the film and it really kind of speaks to the I mean the theme is really forgiveness and also kind of how I think how anger takes different forms as you know as different ages like they're the youngest carry and I Tom I'm sorry yeah Tom and um you know they have the most anger towards their father and and kind of as it goes up the line it's a little more understanding which I thought was really interesting as well yeah I mean you know I mentioned U you know some of my childhood friends who came from these big families there was another friend of mine who talked about came from a big family uh that talked about uh his older siblings hated their father because when they were born the father was 21 and a drunk and they had no money and he beat the [ __ ] out of them and by the time numbers 789 showed up you know he had gotten sober educated and was making money and the and the younger kids thought he was the greatest dad in the world so I just love the idea that Under One Roof in one family you could have two very different sets of parents different sets of relationships and um uh just different feelings about you know your your parents and that's kind of where I uh jumped off from and you know the the other thing that I wanted to look at with Christmas is you know Christmas is always that time where you know friends of mine will say you know if you could just get through the holidays and not have that conversation you know if that thing doesn't come up you know krie says in here you know it's all right I forgive you I don't want to talk about it you know you just want to get through without the ugly stuff potentially coming up but you know the movie as I said it's about forgiveness and like and healing and the thinking was you know in order to heal you got to sort of address the wounds so the movie you know you got seven siblings and everybody's got some wounds right and the other thing I liked about it as a as a viewer is I mean I feel like you know you take takes place over a few days which I always think that's always a great I love when movies take place over a few days but the other you know it doesn't really Pander to the audience you don't overe explain things you know there's history with his family and stuff and and I don't is that do you think that you're able to do that because it's a independent and not a studio production because I've seen not naming names but I've seen films that I've Loved this year that kind of have done that handholding thing where there's like someone's talking about gambling and then all of a sudden we're going to go to like explain what the term is like it's almost like kind of like you could just hear that studio note where they're like this needs to be explained because the audience is not going to pay attention or follow this so I mean do you find that kind of freeing when you're writing as like you know you don't have to necessarily worry about Studio influence as much let's say I I mean it's the reason that I I I make the you know I I've stayed independent all these years you know I constantly talk about you know there are two list of compromises like a filmmaker has to work off of you know the the compromises you make you make lower budgeted or micro-budget films like like me is you know you're you know you're not you're going to have to make a film in 20 days or 15 days uh you're not going to have uh you know steady Cam and you know uh 50 fet of track and cranes you're not going to work with movie stars and if you're not going to work with movie stars odds are you're not going to get a major theatrical release you know there going to be certain things that your let's say your production may suffer from the plus side that you get is you don't get those notes you work with the actors you want to work with uh and you get to make the film that you want to make you know the other list of compromises when you do get a lot of money um you know you get all those things that I talked about you know all the toys and the stars and everyone gets paid very well but you know you don't get to make your film you know you don't get to make personal films um so it's really just you know what what you know what kind of the film making are you interested in right and for this point for you I mean at least you still get you know you do have stars Connie Briton is a you right for I mean for you're you're in a because you've been doing it so long it's nice position yeah um you know you we mentioned that kind of like independent thing you've been doing really well with the on demand and stuff and and like kind of been I feel like a Trailblazer in that or at least out in front like where your films really been playing to that home audience and like finding an audience and doing really well I mean where do you see that market going in like five do where do you see that going next like what's the next step for on demand viewing I I don't know I mean all I know is that the audience um you know a younger audience is totally comfortable watching films on their devices and seem to have no problem with it um and now you know more and more sort of let's say you know older folks like even like my dad now like is addicted to Netflix on his iPad uh which is something that you know two years ago you know he and I neither no no one in our house could fathom that um so I think the the world is changing I think the big change that will come is some version of the direct to Consumer sale you know if you look at what you know I guess starting with you know radio head was probably the first band uh that did it with uh In Rainbows I think was the name of that record 9in Nails had a lot of success with it and now tons of bands do it and then Louis CK most famously recently did that I think you're going to start to see um you know not only just indie films but there's going to be some version of that um where that that middleman is cut out uh I think that's where we're going yeah and I think that's probably fun for the consumer at least also you it's fun for the consumer I think it's fun for the whether it's the musician or the comedian or the filmmaker so you've done now 11 films I mean how do you feel like and you've uh you know obviously directed and acted and how do you feel you've developed as an actor yourself because I think you're you're really good in this and I mean how is like how have you developed like you know how have you learned to direct yourself I know that's trick when like Ben Affleck was going around talking about Argo he was like that was very popular question to him I guess I mean like how how have you like developed as an actor under your own Direction I mean I I uh I think I've been lucky as an actor in Hollywood films that I've gotten to work with you know some really good filmmakers and got to work opposite some really great actors and um I you know I never had any ego about going up to a Dustin Hoffman and saying all right how you know how did I do in that scene you know where did it work where didn't it work and you know talking to them about you know how I might become a better actor um so that's just a that's a great bonus to have um but for me in my films um I'm lucky I have the guy that that has produced all my movies since sidewalks of New York guy named Aaron Luben that's you know we're going on 12 or 13 years working together and my Director of Photography a guy named will rexer I think this is our seventh film together um we before we go into production we kind of identify the scenes that um are going to be more of a challenge for me as an actor or where let's say I'm out of my comfort zone you know if I'm playing a sarcastic [ __ ] I can kind of you know I know I know how to hit those beats but you know like a scene in this film with um Connie Brittain and I in the car that was a pretty tricky scene and that I I kind of hand over the Reigns to them on those scenes and say look you know it's going to it's up to you to let me know whether or not we get this um and they're both you know I mean um they' both been with me a long time and they're both you know uh real students of film and could direct their own movies I'm sure and I know we probably have to start taking questions soon but do you want to maybe run that other clip of uh Ed and Mike we just we have one more I just thought of it it's a good scene um first first part about that was it hard to get clearance for all the Christmas songs in this because you do have a lot in there was that difficult what we did was when we were thinking about what Christmas tunes uh to to use we went online and looked uh what Christmas songs are in the public domain okay and there's about four or five dozen very well-known Christmas songs yeah um so then my composer PT Walkley and I you know in the film you probably got some sense it's you know there's some comedic moments in it but it is not a comedy I mean it's more a Melancholy uh tale like heartfelt and sort of sad ending yeah um so thinking about that we were like all right well we we should embrace that so um we went through those tunes and thought well you know what are a it's funny you know most Christmas songs are pretty Melancholy right um so we had a lot to choose from and then we just picked the ones that um PT and I sort of thought fit the film uh uh I guess um thought best matched the tone of the film and then he went in and and did his score and then we had you know maybe there's seven or eight moments in bars and things where we needed some other tunes and that we just we went out to our friends who are musicians and said you know here's the 12 songs that you can pick from um would you mind just going in and doing R version for us so um that was pretty lucky yeah and I'm working with Mike again obviously you have not worked with him on screen in a while I know you did the the short film at Tribeca this year with him also but so I mean was that like like you know getting back on screen with him and acting opposite him and stuff I mean yeah you know I mean it was great it's been 17 years since McMullen and she's the one uh for years we've been talking about uh trying to find something to do together and it's you know I mean it's funny we only have a handful of scenes in this film together and we didn't get to have any like the the riparte that we kind of like so we are going to do the McMullen Sequel and I kind of I purposely sort of kept us at you know uh in separate Corners in this film so that uh uh I could save some of that stuff for the McMullen Sequel and you mentioned that I mean like we've seen like you I've heard you say this before you've seen that lot of independent films have kind of done that like you know the Richard linkl Before Sunrise Before Sunset films and Kevin Smith clerks too and even we were just talking before like not necessarily independent but Jud appow spinning off from Knocked Up I mean so that's actually it's a great I think it's a great idea and like you know people like these characters you might as well bring them back I mean so how far along you on that and like what's the status I guess uh yeah um you know I've got almost the whole outline for the screenplay done and I'm pretty religious about writing my outlines um so uh the outline for the most part is done I have this other film that hopefully will shoot in the spring so after that film I'll go back in and write the script to McMullen and uh you know 2015 is the 20th anniversary so the thinking is we'll shoot it uh early 2014 and have it ready for you know 20 years later right which is nice yeah it would be pretty cool um I just saw it went Tarantino did a Playboy interview uh this week I guess Hawking Jango and chain and he was saying how he wants to do like maybe three more movies and that's also kind of come in Vogue with directors like you know Kevin Smith retired Steven Soderberg is retiring Tarantino maybe will retire I mean do you ever think of that like what kind of do you ever like like I want to make this many films and give it up or I mean do you have tons of stories you want to continue to tell yeah no I mean I have tons of stories I want to tell and you know my stories are you know they're pretty small stories um you know I sometimes feel like I'm more of like the short story writer than the than the novelist um you know my film making hero is always been Woody Allen and I I look at that career and year after year he you know he bangs another one out and I think it's you know I mean what I love is I mean making movies when I was a kid in film school I wanted it so badly you know and now that I I get to do it you know you have to fight tooth and nail to get these movies made but man when you do there is there is no day that is as much fun as a day on set so I've made you know some movies that have worked I've made you know more than a few that haven't worked but every one of the experiences has been you know highlights of my life so um for me it's it's it's less important the end result and you know I guess the thing you know it's much more about the process right and so I mean this maybe is not the I mean so do you have one that what ones not to say what one didn't work but I mean what what do you think is like your be like do you ever look at them like what's your best one is it too much of a Sophie's choice or do you like this one I really nailed like this is the one I think the film you know I mean I'm always going to say the one that you're working on you know cuz it's your your your new girlfriend um but I think the one that you know like when you sit down and you have your first idea of what a movie might be and you have some images in your head uh sidewalks of New York is probably the film that I've made that I think sort of uh the the film uh most closely resembles what I thought or what I thought I was going to do yeah I I I would also agree with that I think that's a great yeah that's a great one and I think that should get more play you know it seems very under it's actually become very underrated where it's like people don't think of it being you know as maybe they should because it's really great um so I think we're ready for some questions from the audience uh if go ahead and raise your hand we do have a microphone we're going to bring the house lights up so we can see everybody and I'll come right on over to you so hand up oh I see one all the way over on the left side in the second row coming on over and we're just waiting for a thumbs up from our camera guy over there there we go what's that about right he Ed hey do I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the experience of uh making doggy bags and um that idea of going back to making shorts and then if you could talk a little bit about you know with this idea of digital distribution becoming you know making it much more accessible for filmmakers and the idea that audience attention spans in general are shrinking do you see any path forward where filmmakers are going to be able to monetize shorts or is it still just a a loss cause yeah I think it's a loss cause unfortunately uh I mean I love short films um and I hadn't made a short film since you know film school but we did this thing last year for uh a short film called doggy bags where uh there was a contest um where people gave a movie Pitch idea and then based on the winning idea I wrote a short script and got to work with Mone um so a lot of fun but good just a good way to exercise your muscles as far as digital distribution um it's funny I just you know getting some like press in from this movie and there was something that was a quote of mine from 2007 we talking about purple violets and uh you know purple violets was the first movie that was ever U released exclusively on iTunes and uh in the quote it was something that you know like I guess when we were doing press all the the people that I sat down with you know the vast majority eight out of every 10 folks were like are you kidding me no one is ever going to watch a movie on their computer let alone their phone and that's 2007 so you know here we are 5 years later obviously that's not the case so I you know if I could tell you where we're going to be in 5 years I wouldn't be making micro budgeted films you know um but I do think if you look at that dramatic shift and the fact that you know people are are much more comfortable uh or and a lot of times prefer watching films at home um I I don't know where it's going but that clearly it's you know it's coming big time yeah yeah any other questions okay I I see in the back row we'll go there and then we'll have one right in front of them I'm GNA be right behind you there you are hi Ed um I have a question about your process in writing your films uh do you arrive at the circumstance situationally do you go out and you know what you're writing for do do you conjure that up in your head and just kind of factor it into your screenplay before the process of uh creating the the entire experience yeah I mean the the vast majority of my screen plays I usually write thinking about uh it's like maybe one of three things you know sometimes it's just environment uh a movie I made uh called No Looking Back I really just wanted to write a movie about you know a beachfront Seaside town in the winter and that's where I started I didn't know where I was going a lot of times it's just a singular character I mean as I think about Fitzgerald really the the the one character that you know when I sat down I didn't know where I was going to go but I've had this idea of a kid a kid I'm [ __ ] 44 a guy um who uh uh you know his father walked out on the family or his father had died and he had to become sort of the patriarch for his siblings and had to sort of um forego his own dreams in order to do the right thing um so a lot of times it'll it'll start with a character um but then what I do is uh as I said earlier I do believe in outlining and a pretty uh sort of extensive outline where um it's almost you know I break it into three acts I outline every scene I try and do bios of the characters and stuff that that I I know I'll never even use in the screenplay the other thing that I'll do is depending on maybe the theme that I want to explore or one of the situations like newlyweds which was about you know a newly wedded couple that were in their second marriages uh I went out and just you know if I was out to dinner at a party you know someone would inevitably say what are you working on I tell them and they would say you should talk to that person so um I'm constantly going into like investigative reporter mode picking people's brains to try and steal from their lives um and then only after I feel like i' I've I know the world and the characters inside out then do you give yourself the you know you give yourself the gift of writing dialogue because you know the dialogue for me is always been the most fun um and the process for a first draft is anywhere between three and six months so do you and you have all that backstory and stuff do you end up giving that to the actors at all or do you not like to like Cloud their heads with other stuff like like too much information it really depends on the actor it depends on the characters sometimes I do but a lot of times you know my process with the actors especially you know the last three or four films is um uh because I've become uh friends with a lot of them and writing for them I bring them in much earlier in the process so you know you have that sloppy first draft which isn't really a first draft I'll give it to them and say are you know this is where I think I'm going I think this is what's going on with your character disregard all the dialogue that sort of placeholder stuff but let's talk about backstory who she is where she's going and you know I I you know I think the reason that you know the last couple of films have felt maybe just a little bit more honest and real is the fact that um you know I have these actors sort of uh working with me especially the the the actresses making sure that those women feel authentic and yes a woman would react that way in that situation she would speak that way um so that's part of it any other questions we have time for two more question questions I see one right here in the third row and then we'll come up to the front after that hello hello I was wondering when you're researching the other Irish American families or your friends you found kind of the bigger the family the more maybe commun lack of communication among siblings um and then they kind of have to confront those issues finally when the father comes back in the storyline but otherwise it's a huge elephant in the room situation did you find that as a common theme with your friends when you were researching it or is that something that you really want to address with Irish American families uh no I don't think it's specific to an Irish American Experience I mean you know we we've taken the film out at a bunch of different film festivals and folks come up to me all the time and they're like I'm not Irish I'm not Catholic and how the hell did you know what was going on in my family so I think families are families doesn't matter you know where you're coming from we all are dealing with the same you know uh all the good stuff and all of the dysfunction you know um so it really and this was a film where I I really I didn't as I was writing it I didn't go out and do any research you know I mean I I grew up you know in a Irish Italian workingclass neighborhood um and you know have been sitting on you know these types of stories situations and characters for 15 years um so the minute I started writing all of this stuff that I guess I has been in my subconscious mind just started coming out a lot of it even from my own family so we've got our final question right here in the front row hi Ed good um we're a newer production company and our average Bud budgets have been about $5,000 and I kind of wanted to see what kind of advice you can give us for starting out you're making short films or um well the atut right now we're starting with shorts and then um my husband's been writing his full uh screenplay so that's where we want to Branch out to I I mean the the the thing that young filmmakers uh have that you know that that you know those of us who came up in the90s did not have the same Advantage you know when we made our lowbudget films we shot on film you know you guys have these incredible digital cameras now um and you can get a great looking image at almost no cost so my advice would be just you know keep your cost down and at 5,000 you're keeping them down but just keep making movies I mean the only way you learn how to make movies is by making movies I know you know I mean I'm a much better filmmaker now because I I've been doing this for a while I only wish when I was a kid starting out that I had been able to just cut my teeth on making you know I would have made dozens of 10minute short films if I could get my hands on like a 5D um that wasn't an option and you know for you guys it's it's the cost of you know picking up a guitar and writing a song or you know sitting down and trying to write your first short story or poetry or if you're a painter I mean the great thing that's happened is now it's the first time you know in film making history we're making films doesn't have to be a capitalistic Enterprise you know every other you know generation filmmaker kid out of film School whatever up until two years ago if he was going to make a feature he had to be thinking about a story that could at least make its budget back because most times you needed millions of dollars that's over so you can go and make whatever story you need to tell you know I mean it might cost you5 10 $15,000 someone might want that money back but there's you know folks out there you know think about what your tuition for film school over four years would be let's say you didn't go to film School you took all that money how many great films you could make something to think about all right well thank you thank you Ahad uh fitell family Christmas is out on VOD November 21st and I believe it's theatrically out on December 7th you should all check it out it's really great so thank you so much for coming and everything thank you