We Are Family: Navigating the Family Dynamics of Burns Logistics with Ed Burns

well welcome back Freight Nation we are so glad that you joined us today for another wonderful episode well I hope it's wonderful I hope you take a lot of Wonderman out of it and get a lot of benefit from it because that's our hope and our goal at Freight Nation every single time so we appreciate you giving us your time your effort and your energy we know there's a lot of places you can put it and and uh we just hope that we can uh give you a good return on your investment as you listen to another great episode of freight nation of podcast by truck stop today man we got a really cool episode today I know I say that a lot about a lot of things but this one's really neque because it kind of hits home to me a little bit we've got a episode that talks a lot about what is it like when you take over a business from your father who is kind of a big name in The Marketplace or a well-known name in The Marketplace what's that like how do you approach it and uh and how does that how does that look for your life moving forward and so as you know at Freight Nation we're all about the story we're all about someone's story and how they got to Freight and and what they found unique and interesting or or what they see about you know the future Freight for themselves and hopefully you can take something behind that so joining us today is Mr Ed Burns the CEO of burns Logistics Ed thank you so much for joining us on freight Nation I know we're gonna have a great time Bren I know it too I feel like I made the big big time being here with you well it's only the big time because we have great wonderful leaders and interesting characters like yourself on that bring a great story I mean that's what makes it great but thank you so much for the compliment it's just important that we're always trying to bring value no matter what I know that burns Logistics and you feel that way so Freight Nation I got to know Burns Logistics at the J Inland conference back in I don't know maybe 2017 2016 somewhere in there where I met actually I met Ed's dad Big Ed Burns and so he introduces himself he's really tall he's very he's very he's a lean tall guy and he's like my name is Big Ed Burns I'm going anybody calls himself Big Ed has got to be cool so I sat down I talked with him and I I thought I understood his business but it took me actually two times meeting Big Ed Ed's dad on understanding how Burns Logistics works it's a very unique it's a very unique model which so I know you're going to get some some benefit Freight Nation I'm listening to the model and how they approach their benefit and their value and Logistics but as we always do with Freight Nation it's always about the story so what makes Ed the gentleman on the picture here and the video here with me what makes it interesting is he grew up in this market and then he grew into the business and then he is now taken over the business we're gonna talk a little bit about that but as we as as I like to do I want Ed Ed I want you to talk about you know growing up what was your pathway in this because yours is kind of unique as well because you kind of kind of grew up all in it so tell me about your pathway on on freight itself on how you got into Logistics Marketplace tell the Watchers and listeners today a little bit about that pathway yeah absolutely Brent so as a kid my dad was an LTL sales guy for a now defun company called Carolina Freight oh yeah I remember them yeah yeah yeah and uh so he spent his early Freight career working in LTL sales and he did a great job of bringing us kids I'm one of four and he would bring us on sales calls with him I don't know if it was a ploy to get more freight uh or if he just enjoyed spending time with us Ed my dad used to do used in the steel business I used to strips all the time with him I thought it was the coolest thing because I got to eat like biscuits from Hardies which was that's Carl's junr now I think my dad was using me the same way it's like here's my here's my son I'm a you know so that's super cool so keep going my special treat was the McDonald's hash brown like that was the real win when we stopped and picked up one of those in the morning there's a picture of me as a little kid uh on the Mac production floor standing in the wheel well of one of the trucks Oh Mac trucks Oh in Allentown yeah cuz that was his territory the Lehigh Valley so we would go to different manufacturing facilities we'd bring pizza or Donuts to people we get to know people as I got older he eventually was with jevic Transportation oh God I know jevic super well Harry Mel one of the smartest operators ever in the industry one of the Legends in the industry I mean I Harry taught me so much it was a coolest thing to go I got to go into his Warehouse where he kept the very first truck that he drove you know jbic Grew From one truck into this massive Fleet that sold out but it was a coolest thing to see is Old Mac that he drove the very first time super cool great guy what a legend absolutely a legend and then he did it again with uh new senty right oh that's right that's right once yeah that's I mean a lot a fair number of people are able to sell their their business it's it's relatively but very few people are able to do it twice and and so successfully so I I admire him very much for that so yeah we'd go to truck driving competitions my dad would make sure a driver showed up a couple times a year to to our school so so kids can crawl around in the cab and talk about the no Zone and so trucks were normal for us it was part of life Freight was life you know we would wear the jbic gear proudly and uh he just always Incorporated us and into his sales calls and it it just became part of he was dropping these little lessons along the way he would say things like you know hey always treat somebody always treat people well always he he would say the the world is small but the freight world is smaller always treat people well and he would just drop these these little nuggets uh so grew up around it as I got older had no uh interest really in the business um for myself professionally no uh around 2008 he lost his job as a sales guy and uh I was probably 15 at the time my dad had four kids at home and I remember his consternation right losing his job like how am I going to provide for this family how am I going to take care of them and he started a business he became an entrepreneur while the wow tough time 2008 is a tough time to start the business he did it and I always uh admired once I realized what he was doing I I really have always admired and respected him for taking the risk and and he's built a nice life for himself and for his family and you know you remember that when that first happened I mean it was like times were tough for the family and and he but he was able to build it and and take good care of us so didn't necessarily want to get into Freight he would always say Freight gets in your blood I was like yeah whatever uh whatever that means yeah yeah old man whatever whatever but I didn't know it was in my blood it was already in there I was contaminated so when I went to college I I wanted to go Bey on TV I wanted to be a a broadcaster shifted gears a little bit went more uh and I started doing 1099 work after my first year of college I dropped out I hated it didn't enjoy it my parents said hey you're going to finish school I was like no they were like oh yes you are there was no arguing on that one so was sprinting through College as fast as I could working jobs and I was working a lot of 1099 jobs and and when i99 being like an independent contractor J yeah exactly and so and one of them I I I had done some work on a political campaign and the web development guy called and said hey what are you doing for work next because the campaign had was wrapping up I said I have no idea but if you're hiring I would love it he said do you know how to build a website I said no but I'll learn he said okay the I'll teach you so and I was 19 started learning how to build websites doet young man yeah you you've been an entrepreneur since well since probably birth almost with your dad yeah I didn't know it was just like okay yeah I got to pay my own taxes sure that's fine I I can control my own schedule and just need to make the deadline okay it's it seemed like a pretty sweet deal and then but at that time you start realizing okay what what's the difference between 1099 in W2 and what's it mean and uh and I started asking people if they like their jobs and so so many people didn't like their jobs but so many entrepreneurs were Juiced up people right they were high energy High performers a lot of them seemed to do pretty well have a nice living and they were excited people and I was like I I like that that's that's that's appealing so as I was finishing College I had learned a fair amount about marketing and certainly websites so I had a couple clients of my own and I thought you know I'm 21 why not just form a company and see what happens so if you hear me laughing Ed at 21 I did the same thing so where I was actually worked in a little bit of concert with my dad raised money started us a business and so uh was kind of done with school sort of thing I want to get out and start getting after it and because I saw a better sort of tangible response when I was in work and was in the work mode when I was working you know and I for me college was was great but it was more like like man I I just I feel it more when I'm I'm in the I'm in the work environment yeah so what was that yeah actually I started a t-shirt screen printing company and uh called it it was named alphabet Inc believe it or not I in K because believe it it's a it's a plasticized ink that goes on a shirt and uh and so started that it was a bad it was a really I should have done my homework this is part of my coaching to young adults when I'm coaching them about business I always go do your homework because if I would have done my homework I would have never gotten that business because it was commoditized when something gets commoditized you're either really really really big and you can make money or you're really really really specialized and you can make money it took me almost four years to get to the specialized part and starting to make some money but it was already too much late and then we closed the business about after about five years but you know you learn a lot you grow a lot you understand payroll and taxes and uh dealing with employees and you know making sure that you can get uh a cash flow and and so it was a really really good opportunity for me to understand business which I'm sure when you started your uh business you ran across the same thing at 21 oh my goodness I did not have a clue Brent I was clueless as to have I was bold and didn't have one either I was yeah I had plenty of brashness but but no clue I can do it I'll figure it out yeah I get it whatever which is good other people do it I can do it that schub can do it I can too you I take this at 57 I still take the same approach hey they did it I can do it yeah well and that's good that's healthy that's that's um that's a beautiful thing but man it was hard it was hard you talk about the marketing industry was becoming very commoditized a lot of stuff was so you know this was was about 10 years ago so um but I was like hey how about I got to Niche down what am I going to Niche into I'm like Transportation trucking companies need websites this industry is way behind with marketing oh way behind yeah yeah and I saw I was going started tagging along with my dad to conferences and I would say so the trucking company's like hey how cool would it be if you had a website right that's for you and I'm at this be before you started working with your dad that's where you and I got to meet I believe the maybe the csmp show maybe it was I think it was an smc3 oh that's right that's right smc3 that's correct yeah yeah one of my favorite conferences like I've met and you just meet such good people oh well for sure so you started this now you got a cool name behind it do I want you it's called Uh pronounce it for me because I want to make sure I get it right it has a cool name behind it yeah it was uh melor marketing melor that sounds very very very high level well it was the last word for better right talk about being a dumb kid I was like yeah well it's going to be better so I'll call it the Latin word for better the domain names got some availability uh you know low search engine traffic so and it and it looks like something that would be on a stock ticker so let's let's do it so but nobody can say it everybody's like what the hell is this meor yeah that's how we in Alabama would say it I think which is much better than how some people have said it you know like you talk about marketing the first thing is like how difficult is it to say the name of your company I mean and that was like always a hurdle that I that I experienced so at some point I wised up years later and I was like I'll just call it the Ed Burns group and had niched down into some into some Consulting instead of Flipping Out $800 websites but it was a great experience I learned so much I and and one of the things that I did that I thought that I would advise young people to do fresh out of college whether they're going into down a career path or want to start a business is I started reaching out to entrepreneurs or people who were successful or people who seem successful and I would ask them to meet for an hour and just pick their brein right so dozens of hyper successful people gave me their time because I was you know 21 and just asking for help I wasn't trying to sell them anything wasn't trying to get anything out of them just wanted to pick their brain and they loved it and so it allowed me to build a very strong Network at a young age because now these people are are some they become invested in you to a certain degree if you truly want to learn from them they appreciate it typically and and then they want to help you right so they start introducing you to their friends or hey here's a lead for you or whatever it may be and I was able to build a very strong Network relatively speaking at a young age and I would strongly recommend the young people do something similar because people are so willing to help and I think some people are like waiting to to be asked for help and just hoping that that somebody young will say like hey can you teach me what you've learned along the way because the information out there people have done it to to your earlier point so that's a big hey like Freight Nation I hope you heard that great wise advice and counsel right there from Ed uh it is so important to emulate success by going and talking to it in other words there are so many people that have been successful that love to invest in others because they they want to give you the knowledge that maybe they didn't get when they as they learned along the way so I found the same thing it across the board it's always good to use the resources that really H your fingertips and just go ask successful people hey could you could you help me could you tell teach me how you did that and because hey everybody loves to talk about their story especially when they've been successful all right so keep going so you got you got you're building this thing out you're building a great Network things are going how are things going through that early on not great scraping by just making it for a few years and then I started to hit some some success probably around 20 late 2017 18 19 started to get some attention from some different businesses and some offers to buy it and uh so I was entertaining three different offers to sell my business at the time I don't know what I was 26 27 I was like oh this is so cool yeah I you know um so went through that process totally botched it made a deal with a company a month goes by after we sign the deal I get no check from them couple clients called they're like hey we're not being taken care of what's going on I'm like oh you know what we'll f figure it out it'll be okay I call him I say hey let's get this together another month goes by still no check nobody's getting taken care of 3 months in all the clients are just furious and this was late 2019 now so I didn't realize that the entire world was about to collapse so I called the company I said hey you know thank you very little you screwed this up we're going to I'm going to take it back and so I did I took all the clients back cleaned it all up just tried to fix I just wanted to do right by these people who who stuck with with with me when I was you know very young and they they could have gone and done it with with someone else and they were I was fortunate to have a pretty small but very loyal client base so there was a young guy who had worked with me in the past I said hey man if you can help me put this back together and get everybody taken care of will you take over the company and run it because I am getting burnt out on on websites and and social media marketing and emails campaigns and he said yes so it took a couple months we cleaned it back up essentially we rebuilt the business we were able to do so with all the knowledge from the very beginning right so me from a business process level accounting what tools to use uh for collecting money things like that and he he had we had grown together really pretty nicely and for worked together for about five years and he had learned a lot technically so he was able to rebuild how everything worked in a much better way so we rebuilt the company pretty quickly he took it over and started running it and then uh I was like okay what do I do now it's 2020 the world you know yeah it's early 2020 a client offered me a job maybe I'll take it maybe I won't I was kind of s I had some Consulting gigs that were paying pretty good for that time of life and then the world collapsed very suddenly and I was like man what am I going to do now so I so I took the job with the former client and a week in I'm like man I cannot work for somebody like this I just can't do it what was driving that I can't work here the truth is there wasn't enough to do oh okay so you were you just were a little bored and complacent yeah you you start doing you do a couple projects you get them done in a day here it is Oh I thought you were gonna have that done by Friday by Friday are you kidding me this you know who's been working for you you know um so so that did not last very long uh and then a buddy said like hey why don't you go work with your dad he's a great guy you guys get along who doesn't love big Ed I'm like yeah I mean I love big Ed but I don't know if I want to work with Big Ed there's always that little hurdle man you guys it's like you know want want to establish something on your own which is commendable I think every son and daughters too but certainly Sons to dads you know kind of want to want to prove yourself and prove prove that you can do it so your friend gave you some good advice so or gave you a suggestion for good advice and so take us through that process so I called my dad I said big could I get an interview your dad I love it yeah yeah I I don't know you know I don't know if he's willing or open or I mean my parents always very loving always wanted to take good care of us but by no means was it uh was anything guaranteed as far as something like that I mean we'd never even discussed well he's Wan you to earn it too yeah and and after talking about it with him later on he was like I never expected any of my kids to to even think about wanting to be in the business just didn't think we'd want to and I wasn't sure that I wanted to at the time uh but we talked it out and we have a really neat business model my dad had built an a a great company with a fantastic uh carrier base with a phenomenal shipper base and uh so I said Dad I think we can build on this there's a lot of opportunity within what you already have going on and in going to conferences with him from time to time and because a lot of my clients were trucking companies or vendors or you know different different Freight type companies um so I was always talking to him at my family dinner or whatever or we talk a couple times a week about work and he would ask me what's going on with my business I'd ask him what's going on with his so was able to stay pretty tied in with what he was doing uh we do have a funky business model I'd say unique it's a fun business model yeah so hang on I want to back up so what was the interview like with your dad right you said I think we can grow this thing together but I want to understand the dynamic because Freight Nation this is what's always one one of the wonderful things about uh Freight Transportation Logistics Trucking uh even just some somewhat the greater the greater supply chain which is is very family oriented there's a lot of family businesses and where um you know they one of the children uh has some desire maybe to come into the business and so that's where I I like the dynamic Ed about you uh the namesake obviously you're the namesake of your father going and talking to your father and he's like okay well let's talk about this so talk about that you know what was that like just discussing the idea with your dad yeah we uh we lit a couple couple cigars and uh and my dad he's just one of the kindest people I've ever known so I didn't expect him to bust my chops about anything so I asked him I said why would this not work and he's like so we just talked that out why would this not work and what does it look like if it does work and and a big thing that we talked out at that time was how are we going to resolve conflict which will be inevitable between the two of you between the two of us wow yeah that's a what a great question to ask your dad I wish I would have asked my dad that question when I was working with him we didn't do that we just uh my dad's 6' five my dad's like your dad except my dad's a little bigger than your dad so it was always like uh yeah I was always I felt like he crushed me at any time so it was always a challenge arguing with my father at what point were you working with him uh I was about 22 years old when we started the T-shirt screen printing company I was the president of the of the Endeavor and my dad was one of the sort of pseudo board members he helped me raise the money for it and we raised the money together and Ed it was one of those things where my dad would come in and help me at times kind of run the business but my father would come in and so I was supposed to be operating and running the business but my dad would come in and make decisions because he was used to being a business operator and he would make decisions after I had decided the decision we were going to make right so he changed what I was doing so it was a lot of bumping heads and I had to say Dad look I get it you're my dad I trust your wisdom on things but if you're going to make a change please talk to me first because the employees answer to me me you know and so we had about 10 employees and it was tough I mean I was only 22 23 years old you know so here's my dad my dad's obviously 20 25 years older than me and so and huge and well-known and that sort of thing so same sort of thing so that that's Pro so tell me what it was like as that process with your dad well I I think it's he's so easygoing so the dynamic when I talk to other people in similar situations ours is a little different in that he's so easygoing and he he's very trusting so he'll trust my judgment he'll leave decisions up to me the friction point we had early on really was that he would let me make a decision and I wanted his input I wanted to know especially before you know now I've got skin in the game with it um I bought my mom out well that the CEO yeah sure yeah so but before that I was just an employee right and I start so I'm making decisions that's going to affect my parents financi future right um so I said well here's what I'm thinking what do you want to do we got here are three options you know just as three and uh a lot of times you say well whatever you think is best he's teaching you man he's teaching you all along the way he's like okay all right son you're capable make the decision and I'd be like look I can make the decision but you got anything for me you know so what a great way to teach your kid though here's what he was saying was hey Ed I think all three of of them are pretty good but I think you can make the best decision yeah so you know that's like to me that's not a problem like that's no big deal you entered in it what was your what was your role as you entered in that what was you were the what was your role with the company yeah I mean the title was like um a relationship guy oh that's right I meant to say this in the beginning you're Ed the relationship guy Burns I love it because I'm the chief relationship officer and this is super funny because I want you to tell Freight Nation this now that you've taken over CEO and your dad has a different role he has a different title and what is that title Mr bur he is the chief relationship officer for burns Logistics I love it I love it I love we're Kindred Spirits now me and Big Ed so well that's fantastic so you came in to work and build the business because you guys are a relationship type business big time I mean that's really the that's the foundational basis of your value proposition to your customers is you build the relationships between two parties and you're the glue in the middle so we're making connections between two parties and and sometimes those Stakes can be pretty high right which means trust has to be pretty high so if the relationship's not there on one side or the other it's not going to work I was doing a lot of relationship you know what what would be called sales relationship building and but then I started seeing like operational things in the business I started putting my hands in things and saying well this could be better the books could be better you know this could be we need a process here we need just cleaning things up I started started getting my hands and all sorts of things they probably shouldn't have well any natural entrepreneur or CEO always digs in to the details to say I think we could be a little better here so not surprised not surprised that you did that how can we make it better how can we move a little faster right because our business model is very old school we don't operate a ton of Technologies we're not uh nothing in our business is automated right so you got to be operating efficiently or things are going to move really slowly and and that's what I was noticing things were moving too slowly and if you're moving at a rate where it's so slow that you start losing opportunities because of it that's a problem so that's what we were trying to trying to fix not that it was like a total mess or anything but there was there was room for improvement so you held that title for how long how long were you in that role oh gez I I probably a year and a half okay not long then probably a year and a half and then my parents are like okay you're you're doing all these things we'll just make you the president of the company all right so now how how old are you at this point so so you you're this is uh this is what three years ago yeah that was uh yeah that was probably two years ago oh two years ago okay so you were how old are you today 28 I was 28 at the time you're young guy I love it but young guy that's great that's right right so they said it's time it's time for you to take more responsibility yeah well I was kind of just doing it so so I think they said you know they're trying to throw me a bone what was your dad operating at the time the guy that started the business so he is one of the best natural sales guys like he is an old school Freight sales guy in the sense that he's a phenomenal relationship Builder he knows Trucking so well he knows LTL he knows truckload he knows how people operate he very early in his career he were on the dock so he knows what that world's like um you know he's been up close to it for over 30 years and he knows the business so well and he has such a fantastic Network right he just people he loves people and people love him so that's what he's good at he likes going out meeting with people going going on site visits seeing carriers facilities he likes going to meet the shipper he loves to golf and and do it with people that that he knows so you know when I was a kid I remember my mom saying like hey you don't work you're golfing and my dad was like it is work it's work and then I started playing with him and I didn't realize how how hard he actually did work uh you know yeah so so that yeah that that's it he was he was doing sales and so we started to realize like the more I can free up his time to just let him work in his genius Zone the more successful we're going to be right especially like in the last this down cycle I mean a lot of people are having a tough time it's it's a tough Market it's hard to find Opportunities and we've been doing all right I'd say you know better better than average because he's doing what he's great at and he's free to do what he's great at and he doesn't have to worry about anything else and and the reality too Brent is you know people in their 60s that a a lot of the people he has these relationships with they're going to start retiring out and the younger people who are taking over those roles are sold to very differently and want to be sold to very differently so the Dynamics are are totally different let me ask you let me back up a second when you said you started getting more involved into the operations of the business are you naturally operationally curious is that is that you find yourself like you like to dig in to sort of like the under layer of what's functionally operating the business and finding better ways to do things so is that is that kind of your bent I really love the EOS model it's talked about in a book called traction by Gino Wickman EOS all right what is eos it's the entrepreneurial operating system okay there you go hey fright Nation pay attention you're about to learn something here let's go talk was about so traction is a very simple called 200 Page book that goes through how to set up your business for successive it's like a one it's a one book that I think every entrepreneur or business operator needs to read uh it talks about organization charts it talks about process it talks about how to run a good meeting it talks and and one of the most valuable Tools in it if you're someone who doesn't want to read a book and you're just going to put a you're G to ask Google Gemini for for a synopsis of it download their VTO which is their Vision traction organizer which is a one-page business plan right so Bren I don't think like I'm a hardcore operator I wouldn't want to run a 200 truck Fleet uh in the operations role but one of the things that uh the book outlines and and the EOS system talks about is the Visionary integrator combination so the Visionary is the person with the wild ideas integrator is the one who makes them become a reality wow that's a good there you go I love that you said Visionary integrator what was the last word that's the vision traction organizer VTO Vision traction organizer okay so you got people that are Visionary people the integrators okay that's cool yeah and so you'll find this a lot a lot of times you you'll meet uh an absolute Wild card who runs a you talk to them for 5 minutes and you're like wow they run this big successful company what a nut job and and a lot of them are kind of crazy uh which is what you need you need to be able to see the world differently from other people in order to innovate so I think I'm a little more that bent I have a lot of crazy ideas but this has been a phenomenal experience because uh I've been able to cut my teeth more on the operational side of things in a different business than I had before I think it's a great experience to great learning experience so you took over as the CEO April of 2023 so we you've been a year into it so you grew up in it you worked with you worked on an outside business you L the entrepreneur entrepreneurial mindset or you are you have the entrepreneu preneurial mindset and then you uh looked you went to work for somebody else and then you went and why I'm somebody a good friend said why aren't you working with your dad you stepped into that role you had to prove yourself to your dad he made you interview for the job which is always commendable you stepped into it you started creating efficiency and then April 2023 it took over the whole thing to run it all right so how does life look a little different at 30 you're 30 years old is that correct yes sir so how does life look different at 30 now look I claim that at 30 you've transitioned to fully become an adult somebody argued with me on that just recently I won't say who but somebody that I work with and I they said it was 40 I went well I think you're starting at 30 to really think and operate and people expect you to be an adult now not everybody is I get that but at 30 you took over not just a business but your family's business so talk a little bit about that transition and then I want to talk a little bit about I do want the freight Nation Watchers and listeners Ed to hear your model because it's very unique so I want to talk a few minutes about what is it like to take over a business and then what is it like to take over the family business where there's there's expectations across probably more expectations across the board to uh really protect it and make success with it certainly yeah Jim ran says uh the prime earning years are between 40 and 60 which I agree with yeah I've experienced it yeah but I think by 30 you should start to have it together a little bit on your way on your way uh there's so much to learn and especially in in our economy today we have so much access to information there's a lot to learn but yeah I agree by 30 you should you should have some things figured out so candidly it's my dad has a big reputation he's got a big personality his name is Big Ed right so people look at me and they're like oh you must be little Ed it's like yeah I was going to ask you my brother is Randy Jr and so they he always hated being called little Randy oh my gosh you if you want to make him mad and get into his Karate kicks because he's a black belt oh my gosh call him little Randy so go ahead down the lot with that yeah well Brent when I'm feeling real Saucy and somebody says that to me I say yeah does uh does your company provide dental insurance because you're going to get your teeth kicked in I love it all right so CH is a CEO you're starting to starting to move forward with it so I think there is a certain reality of uh that I've seen not just with myself that if somebody has an a father or a mother who's an established figure in an industry and everybody knows them how do you respectfully step out of the Shadow while working and honoring with with that strong reputation and building off of it without uh and do so in a healthy way I think I'm I'm still in some ways figuring it out well yeah yeah I'm sure you are but but we have a different personalities we play off of each other well we have good rapport um and we're like we can tease each other a little bit which is fantasttic yeah I mean we're my dad's like my best friend we we're butts so I mean that makes everything much much easier and yeah and talk to some multigenerational businesses especially in our industry where that next generation and the previous one it's kind of adversarial there's a lot of angst in it not to me that makes me think you know I think a lot of you but it makes me think more higher and more Kinder about your dad because it's it's usually the dad that creates most of the angst in the situation creating expectations not releasing sort of control onto something so that's that speaks very highly of your father yes it absolutely does I mean one of the things he does all the time is he tells me that he's proud of me a that's killer man that's Fel right and every every book I've ever read about fatherson relationships is that a son is starving to hear their father say that he's proud and uh he does it all the time I'm so so fortunate so blessed in in that respect that he um one he you know he's aware enough to be able to articulate it right so that's fantastic and and I see so many other relationships where the dad does love the kid but he can't just say it right and that would fix so many problems really my dad died almost five years ago and I still hear his voice telling me how proud he is I still hear it and I would propose that a lot of your confidence is because you know your father supports you and he's proud of you and he encourages you same thing with me it's like I don't feel like there's anything I can't do and I know there's a lot I know I have a lot of limitations but I don't think there's anything I can't do because my dad always said Son you can go do that others have did it you said it in the beginning somebody else has done it you can do it go find your your pathway to success so what a great thing all right so fright Nation if you didn't have somebody encouraging you be encouraging to somebody else because you'll find that same fuel come back to you if you're encouraging to somebody else even though maybe that person that you needed to encourage you is not encouraging you be encouraging to somebody else because man pays backwards towards yourself all right so keep going Ed on your transition is your dad's your dad's really supporting you and getting you moving forward so what's been that year of like running the business like what's been like the one of the highlights and On's what's one of the low lights I would say the Highlight is is we're seeing some success we're getting some stuff cleaned up and there's there's a lot of opportunity I'm very optimistic about the marketplace and uh I'm having fun watching my dad have fun that's good to see and well like I mean when you're looking at p&l and and you're sweating it sometimes and you're like you know thinking about like cash flow sorts of issues and uh it went from being not really your business to now it's your business and you're responsible for it I mean that can keep you up at night sometimes but but we're very fortunate I mean we're we're good shape and the stresses are are certainly there you know when's the market going to turn what's how's that impacting people I think a big Downer is if if a fleet of ours is struggling about a year ago we had a fleet that we worked with uh 80 something year old company uh go out of business oh wow that's hard that's hard yeah that stinks I mean that just that stinks because you blame yourself a little bit because you're part of the process too I mean anybody that that really cares about their customers when they struggle or fail you take some responsibility in that so you said the low light was the weight of responsibility other words not in a great tremendous negative sense but you feel the weight of it you know because each and every day if you're not showing up that you know you you know the weight of that so that's and I talked about that with all all the time with people about the weight of leadership and weight being like weight on your shoulders because you got to know you got to show up every day for for every person that you work with and for but It ultimately it's healthy I just want to say Brent with fleets that are struggling is they need to be willing to speak up and ask for help when they're having because it because we learned about that like way too late and that was the killer it was like if you had told us two or three months before we probably could have helped like transition you to a sale with somebody else who could have absorbed absorbed you and and kept jobs for all those drivers and that sort of thing so I think in our industry there is a a Rance to ask for help it's a very independent strong willed industry and but man it's too hard to not ask for help yeah I'm with you man you always ask for help that's the best thing you can do is say I need some help all right so we got a few minutes left I want you to talk a little bit about your business model because it's different than the standard like broker model or this carrier model or just the intermediary model you have a little different model for your business talk a little bit about that and then we'll wrap it up so we connect people directly we connect our shippers and carriers together directly a lot of people call it a sales agency model but it's we have asset fleets we work with typically between 50 to 200 trucks and they're nichy whether it's in the regions they run or the equipment they operate and the big shippers out a lot of Enterprise shippers want to Source capacity from these small fleets and a lot of them have the mindset of if I work with a with a 100 truck Fleet I'm going to matter to them enormously if I'm cracking their top five to 10 customer list then I matter and I'm going to get high levels of service and the relationship can last a long time I mean some people don't care about it and some people do to to varying degrees but uh the ones that care about it will will engage us to help them Source capacity and The Fleets we sign on with typically do not have a sales team or have a small sales team and oh wow okay yeah so we we do it for them that's a great model so you found success in an unconventional Way by being the sales responsible party or sales agent model you said sales agent uh agency model so for the actual carriers out to the shipper base and then you help give that shipper certainty under what the performance might be with that carrier because sort of you're an independent obviously business from that so you're representing them saying this is what you can expect over here and but I'm the third party in the middle I can show you how that works sure and really we're sourcing capacity for repeat contract business right we're not playing in the spot Market that's just not where we are it's all repeat contract but it's a great model because it's needed uh because most shippers really they don't have transportation departments they don't really know how to source that carrier a lot of small carriers don't have sales departments to be able to go and Market their businesses out there they just figure they're going to get their business organically and sometimes that business can be good for them and sometimes it cannot be good for them and so your job is to help that carrier find the best shipper for them to do to match up with and do business with because when you can do that both parties benefit am I get do I got that am I accurate on that that was beautiful well do you do a commercial for us hey I would be happy to support both at burnses anytime man anytime I can but such a great model man thank you so much for telling your story today to the freight Nation Watchers and listeners it's really great freed Nation I hope you took a little bit away on what is it like what's a scenario like when somebody actually has a great relationship with their parents and with their dad who's leading a business and what's it like trying to find your way on your own and then realizing just maybe working with my dad or working with my parent or working with my family would be a really really great thing you know and so Ed story is full of great advice on that he gave some great advice on relationships he gave some great advice on resources on on things on encouragement on making sure you're encouraging to people and he learned all that from growing up being around his dad and doing things being around a parent and benefiting from that so whether it's your actual parent or whether it's somebody else for nation find somebody that can really help you grow in your career and grow in your trajectory but they do it from a standpoint of support and foundational like care for the other person so what a great story Ed thank you so much for telling your story to the freight Nation Watchers and listeners thank you so much for having me it's always good talking with you wow man fantastic so Fred Nation that's we're going to wrap it up right here hope you got a great a bunch of pro tips out of this Ed Ed had a bunch of them for you and he's taking uh Burns Logistics to the next level and it's going to be great to see what he does over the next four or five years with the business and I know he'll do well because uh he's he was taught really well by somebody who really cares for the customer in the business and so Frank Nation thanks a lot for watching and listening today as always we appreciate you giving us your time and as we always like to close to say don't forget to work hard to be kind and to stay humble all right fr we'll catch you the next time on behalf of the truck stop team thanks for listening to this episode of freight Nation to find out more about the show head to truckstop.com SLP podcast if you enjoyed this episode make sure you hit subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes until then keep on trucking and exploring the open roads with Freight Nation a trucking podcast