Your Voice, Your Vote: Explaining how deflection will work in Oregon with Grant Hartley

FROM KATU NEWS. THIS IS YOUR VOICE. YOUR VOTE WITH STEVE DUN. >> GOOD MORNING. ON THIS LABOR DAY WEEKEND. STEVE DUNN HAS THE MORNING OFF. YOU'RE WATCHING ON SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 1ST. AND TODAY'S DATE IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE STARTING TODAY, POSSSING A SMALL AMOUNT OF HARD DRUGS IS NOW A MISDEMEANOR CRIME INREGON. THAT IS A CHANGE. IN 2020, OREGONIANS VOTED TO DECRIMINALIZE PERSONAL POSSESSION OF DRUGS BY PASSING MEASURE 110. LAWMAKERS REFORMED PORTIONS OF THAT MEASURE EARLIER THIS YEAR. THEY VOTED TO DECRIMINALIZE LOW LEVEL DRUG SSESSION EFFECTIVE SEPTEMBER 1ST, AND OFFER SUSPECTED DRUG USERS A CHANCE TO DEFLECT AWAY FROM JAIL AND INTO TREATMENT. COUNTIES CAN DECIDE WHETHER TO PARTICIPATE IN A DEFLECTION PROGRAM, AND IT'S UP TO THEM TO DECIDE WHAT KIND OF PROGRAM TO OFFER. HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DEFLECTION PROCESS IN OREGON, MULTNOMAH COUNTY DIRECTOR FOR METROPOLITAN PUBLIC DEFENDERS GRANT HARTLEY GRANT, THANKS SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN ME TODAY. OF COURSE. >> YEAH. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. >> OKAY. BEFORE WE START, EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS HOW YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THE DEFLECTION PROCESS TAKING PLACE IN OREGON RIGHT NOW. >> YEAH, WELL, I MEAN, AS A PUBLIC DEFENDER, I AM, YOU KNOW, VERY ADJACENT TO THE POPULATION THAT DEFLECTION IS MEANT TO TARGET. THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT OVERLAP WITH THE CLIENTS THAT WE REPRESENT. AND SYOU KNOW, I KNOW FIRSTHAND WHAT MOTIVATES THESE INDIVIDUALS. AND BECAUSE OF THAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN DEFLECTION PROGRAMS. EVEN BEFORE 4002. AFTER 4002, I GOT INVOLVED WITH THE OREG HEALTH AND SCIENCES UNIVERSITIES ECHO PROGRAM, WHICH IS A COLLABORATIVE EDUCATIONAL SERIES THAT THE COUNTIES THAT ARE DEVELOPING DEFLECTION PROGRAMS WERE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN. AND THROUGH MY FACULTY POSITION IN THAT, I GOT TO LEARN ABOUT DEFLECTION PROGRAMS FROM AROUND THE NATION AND DID A LOT OF INDEPENDENT RESEARCH, SPOKE WITH THOSE PROGRAMS AND PARTICIPANTS TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, DEVELOP THAT, THAT BASE OF KNOWLEDGE. >> AND JUST SO OUR VIEWERS KNOW, HOUSE BILL 4002 IS THE NEW THE NL AMOUNTS OF HARD DRUGS. AND YOU WERE THERE AS THAT WHOLE THING SHOOK OUT. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. MANY OF US ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM DIVERSION RATHER THAN DEFLECTION. SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE HERE? >> YEAH, AND I THINK IT'S BEST EXPLAINED SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IF MY HAND IS THE CRIMINAL LEGAL STEM, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, DEFLECTION IS INTENDED TO DEFLECT PEOPLE AWAY FROM IT. RIGHT. TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO NOT ENTER THAT SYSTEMIVERSION. SOMEONE ENTERS THE SYSTEM AND THEN THEY ENTER IR THE COURT OR THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE T COMPLETE SOMETHING. AND IF THEY DON'T, THERE'S PUNISHMENT. AND IF THEY DO, THEY'RE DIVERTED OUT OF THE SYSTEM, WHICH GERALLY MEANS NO CRIMINAL CONVICTION. SO REALLY, IT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOT BEING INVOLVED IN THE SYSTEM AND NOT HAVING A CONVICTION. >> SO 28 OUT OF OREGON'S 36 COUNTIES INTEND TO OFFER DEFLECTION PROGRAMS. HOW MANY COUNTI DO YOU THINK WILL ACTUALLY HAVE THE PROGRAMS UP AND RUNNING IN SOME CAPACITY? ON SEPTEMBER 1ST TODAY, I HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE GRANT REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHERE WE WERE REVIEWING THE GRANT APPLICATIONS FROM THE DIFFERENT COUNTIES. >> AND SO IF I'M REMEMBERING CORRECTLY, I BELIEVE 15 ARE SET TO START ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. I BELIEVE THERE'S ANOTHER TWO IN OCTOBER AND THEN THREE IN DECEMBER, AND EIGHT COUNTIES WILL BE STARTING SOMETIME AFTER JANUARY 1ST. THOSE WERE PLANNG GRANTS RATHER THAN OPERATIONAL. >> CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE RANGE OF SOME OF THE PROGRAMS AOSS THE DIFFERENT COUNTIES THAT ARE HAPPENING? >> YEAH, THE LEGISLATURE REALLY GAVE FLEXIBILITY TO THE COUNTIES, AND A LOT OF THEM EXERCISED THAT FLEXIBILITY. THERE'S A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PROGRAMS. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY JUST A CITATION TO CONTACT SOMEBODY TO GET INVOLVED IN SERVICES, WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS REALLY FRINGE DEFLECTION. I WOULD SAY IF IT IS DEFLECTION WHILE OTHERS ARE MORE FAITHFUL TO THE BEST PRACTICES OF DEFLECTION, WHICH REALLY INVOLVE A WARM HANDOFF BETWEEN AN OFFICER AND A PEER OR A NAVIGATOR, SOMEBODY THAT CAN MAKE A CONNECTION WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL. >> WHAT'S THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THESE DEFLECTION PROGRA? >> YEAH. SO DEFLECTION PROGRAMS ARE DESIGNED TO GIVE THE PARTICIPANT STABILITY. AND THE GOAL IS TO MOVE THEM GENERALLY INCREMENTALLY BECAUSE OF HOW VULNERABLE THIS POPULATION IS ON AATH TOWARDS RECOVERY. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE ABOUT SOME OF THE DEFLECTION PROGRAMS IS THAT THEY'RE SORT OF SETTING THEIR THEIR GOAL FOR SUCCESS, REALLY HIGH WITH, YOU KNOW, 90 DAYS OF SOBRIETY OR ENGAGEMENT IN TREATMENT FOR 180 DAYS. AND THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS POPULATION DEFLECTION REALLY EMPHASIZES THE NEED FOR SORT OF INCREMENTAL STEPS TOWARDS AT. AND THE USE OF CASE MANAGERS AND PEERS TO PROVIDE ONGOING SUPPORT TO HELP THAT PERSON ON THAT JOURNEY TO RECOVERY. >> THAT'S NOT A LONG TIME, AS YOU KNOW, FOR SOMEONE WHO IS DEALING WITH ADDICTION, ARE YOU HEARING ANYTHING FROM CLIENTS ON WHETHER THEY THINK THAT'S GOING TO WORK FOR THEM? >> WELL, I MEAN, NOT I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU ANECDOTALLY FROM MY EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH CLIENTS AND THEN ALSO FROM, YOU KNOW, WE IN MULTNOMAH COUNTY, WE HAD A DRUG TREATMENT COURT FOR LOW VEL POSSESSION PRIOR TO MEASURE 110. AND THAT PROGRAM ACTUALLY ITS GRADUATION IN ORDER TO GRADUATE, YOU HAD TO HAVE 90 DAYS OF SOBRIETY, AND THEY HAD A 17% GRADUATION RATE. AND THAT WAS PRIOR TO THE INTRODUCTION OF FENTAN INTO OUR COMMUNITIES. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THAT THEIR GOAL FOR SUCCESS IS VERY LOFTY. >> IT'S GOING TO BE MORE CHALLENGING NOW. SO WITH THAT IN MIND, WHAT ARE THE BENCHMARKS HERE? HOW DO WE KNOW IF A DEFLECTION PROGRAM IS SUCCESSFUL? >> YOU KNOW, I THINK LIKE I SAID, INCREMENTAL PROGRESS. IT'S REALLY, YOU KNO HARM REDUCTION MODELS WHERE INDIVIDUALS ARE THROUGH THESE DEFLECTION PROGRAMS FINDING SERVICES LIKE HG GOVERNMENT IDS, GETTING ENGAGED WITH PEERS WHO CAN HELP THEM AS THEY CONTINUE THEIR JOURNEY ON RECOVERY. AND I THINK ALSO ACCEPTING THAT THAT JOURNEY HAS BUMPS ALONG THE WAY. IT IS NOT A CLEAR ROAD AND, YOU KNOW, DEFLECTION PROGRAMS NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND AS PEOPLE ARE PROCEEDING THROUGH THAT, THAT THEY'RE NOT JUST GOING TO GET INTO SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT AND IMMEDIATELY GRADUATE >> IS THE STATE GOING TO BE KEEPING TRACK OF THE VARIOUS DEFLECTION PROGRAMS AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE WORKING? >> YEAH. SO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMMISSION, THE CJC PART OF THE BILL REQUIRES THEM TO TRACK DATA. YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR THIS FIRST YEAR, THEIR DATA TRACKING IS GOING TO BE SOMEWHAT LIMITED AND I THINK THE GOAL IS TO ENHANCE THAT AS THESE DEFLECTION PROGRAMS INCREASE. I KNOW THAT OTHER COUNTIES ARE PLANNING TO LLECT DATA ON TOP OF THAT. I KNOW MULTNOMAH COUNTY IS PLANNING MORE ROBUST DATA COLLECTION. YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROGRAM IS WORKING FOR THE COMMUNI, FOR THE PARTICIPANTS, YOU KNOW, FOR THE PEERS AND PROVIDERS THAT ARE ENGAGED IN I SO, YOU KNOW, THE MORE DATA THAT WE CAN COLLECT, THE BETTER IDEA WE'LL HAVE OF WHAT MAKES A GOOD DEFLECTION MODEL. >> HOW CERTAIN ARE YOU THAT DEFLECTION WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN OREGON'S ADDICTION CRISIS? >> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT IS A HARD THING TO SAY. I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT I THINK IT WILLAKE A DIFFERENCE. ANY OPPORTUNITY WE HAVE TO CONNECT INDIVIDUALS WITH PEER SERVICES WITH OTHER SERVICES TO GIVE THEM STABILITY IS GOING TO BE A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE UTILIZE THESE TOOLS, BECAUSE IF WE SIMPLY RELY ON THE IMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM, WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, HELPING US MOVE FORWARD. SO IT'S ACTUALLY HELPING US MOVE TOWARDS MEANINGFULLY ADDRESSING ADDICTION IN OUR COMMUNITIES. >> SO WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THERE'S DIFFERENT PROGRAMS AND DIFFERENT COUNTIES ARE COUNTIES THAT PARTICIPATE REQUIRED TO OFFER DEFLECTION PROGRAMS TO EVERYONE WHO IS ARRESTED OR CITED FOR MISDEMEANOR DRUG POSSESSION. IS THAT THE COMMON THREAD HERE, >> YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMEWHAT THE COMM THREAD, BUT, YOU KNOW, ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA, I THINK WAS ONE OF THE BIG CONCERNS OF THE GRANT REVIEW COMMITTEE WH WE WERE REVIEWING THOSE, BECAUSE MANY OF THE COUNTIES ARE INCLUDING VERY STRICT ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA THAT ARE, FRANKLY, EXCLUDING THE INDIVIDUALS. THAT DEFLECTION IS SUPPOSED TO BE TARGETI. AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIG CONCERNS ABOUT THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE STATE IS GIVING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THESE PROGRAMS, AND THEY'RE REALLY ONLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO HELP A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THOSE RESTRICTIONS. THE OTHER CONCERN IS THAT WE KNOW THAT RECRIMINALIZING POSSESSIOIS GOING TO HAVE A DISPARATE EFFECT ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. WE KNEW THAT WHEN THE BILL WAS PASSED, IT WAS INCLUDED IN THE RACIAL IMPACT STATEMENT. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU INCLUDE CRITERIA LIKE CRIMINAL HISTORY, WHERE THOSE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR HAVE BEEN OVERPOLICED AND OVER PROSECUTED, AND THERE ARE OTHER SOCIAL SUES THAT LEAD TO THEM HAVING LARGER COMMUNITIES OR LARGER CRIMINAL HISTORIES. WHAT YOU WILL END UP WITH IS, IS REALLY EXACERBATING THE ALREADY EXTREME DISPARITY THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE. AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THOSE PROGRAMS REALLY LOOK AT THOSE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE AS MANY PEOPLE ELIGIBLE AS, AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN WITH THIS CHANGE IN, IN STATE LAW, IN OREGON. >> ANY IDEA HOW MANY PEOPLE COULD END UP IN JAIL? >> YOU KNOW, I KNOW I WOULD BE I WOULD BE SPECULATING. I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS THA THEY CAME THAT CAME WITH THE BILL IN BOTH THE FISCAL AND THE RACIAL IMPACT STATEMENT, IN MY OPINION, WERE FRANKLY, A LITTLE LOW BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE INFLUX OF FENTANYL AND HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY ARE ARE NOW ADDICTED TO THAT SUBSTANCE. AND PULLING SOMEONE OUT OF THAT ADDICTION AND GETTING THEM ON THAT PATH TO RECOVERY IS, IS FAR MORE COMPLICATED NOW THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN. >> SO AND THAT CONTINUES TO SNOWBALL IT'S JUST GETTING WORSE AND WORSE. >> AND THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE INELIGIBLE FOR THESE PROGRAMS, THE MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE GOING TO JAIL AS A RESULT OF THIS. >> ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT OREGON IS ON TRACK TO LESSENING ITS ADDICTION CRISIS WITH THE EMPHASIS NOW BEING ON DEFLECTION? >> WELL, I MEAN, I WISH THERE WAS MORE OF AN EMPHASIS ON DEFLECTION. I MEAN, I THINK THAT, YOU KNO THAT IS ONE PROGRAM THAT IS BEING SET UP. WE ARE WE STILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS DEARTH OF SERVICES IN OREGON. YOU KNOW, WE DO NOT HAVE NEARLY THE AMOUNT OF SERVICES THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR CULTURALLY AND LINGUISTICALLY APPROPRIATE SERVICES TO HELP THOSE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT ARE ALREADY UNDERSERVED IN OUR CRIMINAL SYSTEM AND IN OUR GENERAL SOCIETY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR TO IT. >> YOU KNOW, THIS ISSUE INSIDE AND OUT, PERHAPS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE WE'VE TALKED TO ABOUT THIS. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT OUR VIEWERS TO KNOW ABO THE DEFLECTION PROGRAMS THAT ARE KICKING IN NO? >> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING OF DEFLECTION PROGRAM IS THAT THEY BE COMMUNITY BASE AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IS IT'S IT REQUIRES A REAL SHIFT OF A MINDSET IN OUR IN OUR SYSTEM FOR THESE SYSTEM ACTORS TO SORT OF GIVE UP THAT POWER. AND SO WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS A LOT OF THESE PROGRAMS BE SET UP AND BE VERY SYSTEM HEAVY WHERE, YOU KNOW, 80% OF THEIR BUDGET IS GOING TO SYSTEM PERSONNEL. AND THE DA'S OFFICE, SHERIFF'S OFFICE, PROBATION, AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A MOVE AWAY FR THAT BECAUSE DEFLECTION PROGRAMS, WHAT MAKES THEM SUCCESSFUL IS THEY'RE THEY'RE LOCATED IN THE COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE THEY'RE AIFFERENT WAY TO APPROACH THIS ISSUE THAT STILL UTILIZES THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM, BUT TO A MUCH LESSER EXTENT. AND RELIES ON RELATIONSHIPS OF TRUST AND COLLABORATE WITH PUBLIC DEFENDERS. >> IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? BECOME A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE. >> EXACTLY. AND THE RELIANCE ON, ON PEERS AND CREDIBLE MESNGERS AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE WALKED THAT PATH OF RECOVERY BEFORE AND CAN REALLY HELP SHINE THE LIGHT ON THAT PATH FOR THE PERSON WHO GOING THROUGH IT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, AN EMPHASIS ON ON CREATING THOSE WARM HANDOFF AND MEETING AND ENGAGING THE PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE AT IN THAT MOMENT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. >> LIVED EXPERIENCE. EXACTLY. DIRECTOR FOR METROPOLITAN PUBLIC DEFENDERS, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU