9to5Mac Overtime 027: Chance Miller Talks Apple Vision Pro

Introduction [Music] yeah so like me and Jeff always bring it up and not that we're negative NES or anything but for the most part it is Chance talks Vision Pro spoken about like yes it's awesome in a demo scenario but then outside of that it's like we don't really find a use for it like I sold mine Jeff has been thinking about selling his because he just collecting dust you know so that's kind of je thinking about selling Jeff thinking about selling something doesn't mean much because Jeff's always thinking about selling like everything he owns and switching back and forth so I exactly put too much stock into that but you know me too well man oh so it's a cycle then it's cyle okay I'm I'm new to the cycle then no but for me for Vision Pro I think I would I would be lying if I told you I used it as much now as I used it like the first month it was available cuz it's been out for what 6 months now which is crazy but I still find myself using it full four times a week three four five times a week and usually it's for movies or baseball like watching I watch almost every Cincinnati Reds game so I watch a few of those every week in Vision Pro and the MLB app on Vision Pro is just it started off a little buggy and Rocky but now it's so good and you have like you can like see a model of the field in front of you and see like where the ball is going and like the exit velocity and everything thing in real time which is really cool D you should write about did you write about it or no I don't I I don't think I wrote about it I definitely talked about it when it came out on happy hour okay with with mayo but it's one of the best examples of a Vision Pro app is the MLB app it's very very good that's cool yeah but you're still watching it so the viewing is still 2D it's like a normal broadcast it's a normal broadcast okay has is there MLB has so much data that they have for every game and for a long time they've had MLB game game day which you can see in the app on like your phone but it's just like a 2d interface like you're seeing where the ball is in the strike zone and that type of stuff but now they're just augmenting that and putting it in like 3D models in front of you that you can like put in your room and it's pretty impressive stuff okay now that's cool I remember me and Jeff were saying that one one of the things that would lure me right back into the Vision Pro is if if I could like watch my Miami Dolphins games yeah in some sort of like 3D environment which was remember way back in the day was promised with like the NBA and like 2018 2017 to have some sort of like court side view of every single game yeah whereas right now it's a I don't know very one-off experiences like that instead of being consistent throughout like that's if that if that happens I would go run back and buy it for sure the MBA up on Vision Pro I'm sure you tried it when you had yours but it's really cool like with the multi view and the stats and everything but it is it's not as cool as the MLB app and it's definitely not courts side 3D yeah yeah that's that's the thing like I want court side yeah I mean that what you're explaining with MLB it sounds cool I'm sure it is but it's like I want the next level like to be to be at the game sort of like the demo that they had for the soccer for the um MLS yeah yeah like top above the goal that view that was cool and one of the things they say they have coming this later this year in immersive video is from the NBA All-Star weekend I think the slam dunk contest and something else and that sounds cool to be able to watch it in Mera video but the problem is the Allstar Weekend was what six five six by the time it comes out it'll be like six or seven months ago and that sort of turnaround time is not really acceptable I think oh wait would it be like a live broadcast of the slam dun Contest no it's like a replay of the top moments from the last yeah the last NBA season yeah I mean like the finals are already done yeah exctly about to start the new season starts in October yeah yep yep yeah I saw that headline but I thought it was going to be like a live thing no for this upcoming All-Star Game nope okay interesting and that's the thing it just seems like there's it's like I guess the infrastructure is just that difficult to make it to where there could be maybe like if it was a week turnaround time that would be more acceptable right but like we're talking three four five months between that that just seems like the interest is gone by then but yeah I don't know if there can they can ever get to the point where we get like live programming with Vision Pro like format for Vision Pro live immersive video I think like this turnaround time and the Pace at which new stuff's coming out I think shows that live immersive video is a long way away but we did see at WWDC John grber did his talk show like his interview and it was Greg joswiak Craig federi and John G and Andrea and they streamed that through an app called theater made by the uh the guys at Sandwich like a production company and they streamed that in spatial video not immersive video but spatial video and it was really cool and it was the first ever live spatial video event why that I to watch that did that turn out really well it was pretty cool and you could like move yourself around the theater and like sit in the front row or sit a few rows back sit in the back move around and kind of see like you were there the quality is obviously not as good as if you were there it's not great quality but for the being the first ever spatial video live event it was pretty cool yeah I thought it was cool that's the thing about like small companies and small like Endeavors you have the flexibility to sort of do stuff like that but with apple it's like there's there's a lot of inertia I guess you could say to get to get going so yeah definitely I guess you really don't think about like how much goes into the the immersive video piece cuz they got to stitch together a bunch of different clips the 360 cams uh so to have it live it would be like super expensive to begin with I'm sure expensive the bandwidth limitations and there's a lot that goes into it like I we just saw I saw that MKBHD video about like a month ago about the golf the golf stuff that he was doing and then that alone makes you realize just how much money and how much like said bandwidth and how much physical stuff you need just to do what they're doing and that's that's not even immersive video that's just the live track statistics and like you said probably similar to like what the MLB is doing all that um from that experience side so again we want Apple to jump on it as fast as possible but forget just how hard it is so maybe we should stop being negative NY Jeff well yeah well I guess one of the reasons like so there was a report that I believe Benjamin Mayo Vision Pro game development posted um maybe a week or two ago about a developers experience with um making games or I don't know if it was making games but it was it was two parts actually it was one with the um Apple arcade and experience with that and then there was another aspect to it about Vision Pro and it kind of alluded to the fact that Apple didn't even really have a game plan as far as yeah how the system works how the software works and and intertwines with this with the hardware yeah it was I don't I mean obviously that's just one person's report one person's experience but to me that was concerning yeah it is concerning cuz Apple arcade is like the it's Apple's strategy for gaming on Vision Pro like that is pretty much the extent of it during WWDC last year how they explained gaming was you can play Apple arcade games connect an Xbox controller but you're playing it on like a 2d pane in front of you like floating in your room it's not 3D it's not immersive and what that report explained was basically about there's no Financial incentives through Apple arcade to make Vision Pro games or make more immersive Vision Pro games even though Financial incentives and getting both based on playing time and all of that is a big part of how Apple arcade works there's nothing special for Vision Pro and they kind of some of those developers explained how getting technical support from Apple for developing on Vision Pro was non-existent and you kind of quickly run into the technical limitations of Vision Pro and vision OS and even Apple couldn't direct developers on how to address those and like jump over the jump over those hurdles which yeah that report didn't paint a great picture of Vision Pro really or of Apple arcade in general so yeah and that was like wow if they don't even have like Ian it's almost like they're still trying to fill through a dark room to get to the to get to the to the door right and even apple is like that so I don't know I just didn't instill a lot of confidence in me about Vision Pro like I'm surprised they didn't really think about that before you know like I'm sure goal was to have remove all friction and make it as easy as possible to get people to develop games and develop just actual Vision Pro specific apps but the fact that I guess it is so new and I mean I I kind I sort of compared it to the iPhone launch where it was like they made this beautiful kind of tech development and this some something that's just amazing to use that's so new and they just threw it out a wall and hope people would latch on eventually right so like me and just spoke about it last week how it was a slow roll out for the iPhone especially the first year because there was no app store it was very limited to what you can do we just knew it was like a beautiful piece of tech and I feel like the vision proos falling into that category we just got to see what happens over because again like you said it's only been six months yeah and we're expecting the world already and something that's so brand new so I just kind of want to see how they end up kind of alleviating all those issues they're definitely just learning as they go I feel like I think one of the one of the better analogies is comparing Vision Pro to the Apple watch cuz the original Apple watch was not quite as much of a technical Marvel as Vision Pro is and the original iPhone was but in terms of features and like marketing it Apple kind of didn't seem to have a clear strategy of what it wanted to do like you had the $25,000 gold Apple watch and in terms of features and functionality so much of that first Apple watch experience was just like mirrored from your iPhone and that was a really bad strategy the apps were so slow and it kind of hindered developers from caring about making apple watch apps but last time went on with the Apple watch Apple kind of hit their stride and was like okay this isn't a fashion device we're not going to sell this $20,000 gold one but it's an excellent Fitness tracker so we double down on activity rings and the ECG stuff and the blood oxygen stuff and focus on that instead of the fashion part of it and making you feel like if you don't have one you might die exactly exactly yeah exactly after a certain age you you can definitely need need one of those but I guess like my thing with the Vision Pro is it's like I don't know how to say this but it just feels like there's Apple Vision Pro friction not first of all there's still that the whole idea with the friction involved with using it and I know you said you use yours three to four times a week and you have incentive to do that you like to catch up with ML lb things like that but it's like do you ever find it challenging or do you find it kind of arous to to even get going with it like if it's just been sitting on your desk or wherever just just the the friction to get going with it I know that's something we talked about before but has that changed at all in your eyes or is it still a chore or do you just it's not not a big deal there is a level of friction starting to use it then that's higher than using an iPad or a Mac or an iPhone I think I'm lucky in that I really like the solo Loop band or whatever it's called the instead of the Dual one yeah which the solo one is so much easier just to put on you turn the knob a little bit and you're good to go yeah like that helps the process so much but I know a lot of people don't like the the solo band they like the Dual Loop band and if I that is like a significant harder process a much harder process to get it fitted right and adjust it every time and then you like take it off for a few seconds to do something or to even to just like look at your phone for a few seconds and then you have to readjust it all there is a level of just work required to get it on and get it going but once you have it on like the experience of using Vision OS I think is so nice and like the animations are so good the hand tracking feels like magic you compare a Bluetooth keyboard and that experience is a lot better in Vision OS 2 because it actually has keyboard occlusion so you can see your keyboard if you're immersed in the environment and if you're in Vision Pro and you realize that you want to use your Mac you just do the Mac virtual display thing through Control Center and never have to take off the actual headset it's I feel like there is an added level of friction to get it going but once you're like immersed and in there it's a good experience in it it's so much fun and so easy to use now are you using it more for work for pleasure a little bit of both where do you see yourself kind of using it right now definitely more towards pleasure more towards TV movies Sports okay but the reason one of the things I like about it from a productivity standpoint is if I have to focus on something like if I'm writing something that's longer or has a lot of like small details like I just need to give it my undivided Focus like I can't be distracted by slack or Twitter or threads or anything I have to give myself that divided Focus putting Vision Pro on and like putting my source material on one side putting my text editor on the other and just like tunnel visioning and focusing on it that's one of the best productivity uses for me makesense I mean that's why I like the iPad yeah that's it is very similar to the iPad in that regard yeah yeah very much so I I guess one of my Apple's nonchalant take on Vision Pro gaming other concerns kind of pivoting back to the gaming aspect how big of a deal is it that Apple isn't really they don't seem Allin with gaming on on Vision Pro it obviously there's no like controllers and that's by Design because you know hand tracking and things like that um like do do do we think that this is going to be a significant hindrance to the adoption because gaming is like it's like a a good way to get adoption I feel like um from the masses like cuz it's so popular um but not having a true gaming strategy or or um just just not having that true focus on gaming do we think that's a a hindrance to Vision Pro's growth do you think that's a misstep by Apple they should have focused on gaming a hard core out of the gate or do you think it's not a big deal I think it is a big deal because if you look at the meta line The Meta Quest stuff gaming is one of the biggest reasons or probably the biggest reasons most people buy those things and they do have such a nice collection of games and meta works really favorably with the game developers and they've acquired a lot of those game developers so they're like in-house at meta now and the quest headsets work with hand controllers and third party controllers and all of that whereas Vision Pro doesn't have support for hand controllers Apple doesn't make a hand controller Apple clearly went all in on the strategy that the hand tracking is so good you shouldn't need something like that but I just don't think that's the case for gaming that's super intense and super where you need a certain level of precision which is a category of what you need for a lot of games on Quest and and virtual reality in general so I think that's something whenever we see a Vision Pro 2 or a vision air or whatever the next Vision product is I think and hope that we see a bigger focus on gaming just because that's what people want but they also have to incentivize developers to make those games which is a whole another topic yeah Apple's relationship with developers Apple's never been great at gaming the Mac isn't a great gaming platform Apple's relationships there aren't great but hopefully it's something that improves because it is a big big big limitation right now I mean I think the from a gaming standpoint the 2D version of it where you would just have a huge screen using your Xbox controller I think that's awesome don't get me wrong yeah being able to play especially something like a NBA 2K which is an apple arcade and it's the full-fledged you know $60 $70 version from Xbox pretty much I remember I was playing that and it was awesome but I do want to see in terms of like immersive gaming like actual virtual reality gaming there isn't much out there and I remember when again it was early early days when I was playing with it but something like the Fruit Ninja or whatever whatever they had to kind of build around it the Vision Pro got hot man I remember it was like you could you could tell it was working hard to build this environment around me and once it did work it was cool but again it was cool in a and like hey let me show you what this thing can do versus I'm going to sit here for for an hour and a half and play this and try to beat this game for myself cuz I want to so Apple definitely needs to kind of step up their game and they like you said they got to figure out a direction of is the immersive game a world that they want to dive into fully or do they just want to make division Pro another like a TV on your face so you have that 120 inch screen right in front of you and play a normal game you know so the gaming like the 2D gaming thing is interesting too because I have loaded up like Xbox cloud gaming or the Xbox play thing where you like connect to your console and your house whatever that's called and yeah just made that window really big played MLB the show and it's a fun experience but you do quickly find yourself wanting better quality like higher Graphics because when you blow up a screen so big you do notice the graphics limitations pretty quickly and something that's just more immersive which doesn't exist right now I want to play NCA 25 on it yeah to say that so there is a game that I found quite impressive and it's it's a I think it's a Vision Pro exclusive it's called void X you guys play that it's it's like a 2d it's a 2d shooter game like like a spaceship game but it's you know it's completely I guess 2D but the graphics sort of extend outside of the play area so like when there's an explosion like you can see it like all throughout your environment and it's really cool actually it's called void X I'd highly recommend checking out yeah all right I mean and then to kind of keep talking about the application situation cuz I know that it opened up with 600 apps I know a lot of them it works with iPad apps and things like that but I think Benjamin Mayo also wrote an article recently that now they're up to 2500 yeah so have you have you seen yourself using a lot of these third party apps do you kind of is most of your work done inside the Apple ecosystem apps what is that look like right now It's tricky because there are 2500 apps but that's kind of small in compar to the number of apps you have on your iPhone or your iPad so like yeah one of the things I ran into right off the bat it was Finding like a native Vision Pro RSS reader which doesn't exist I don't think and if it does it's very relatively new because I couldn't find it that was one that I was really missing out on then finding like a good text editor specifically like a markdown text editor mhm is hard there's one called runstone that's pretty good but if you rely on something something like obsidian or ulses they don't even let you run their iPad app on Vision Pro which is frustrating yeah I think there's like we saw a lot of developers come out of the gate with high expectations for making Vision OS apps and then in the intervening months we've heard some of them talk about how they literally have like dozens of people who use their apps every day like doesn't that's all and that that's tough It's it's you Can't Blame a developer for not dedicating their time to making a Vision Pro app especially like a small Indie developer and then you have some thirdparty Vision OS apps that are really good there's an app called super cut that kind of brings a native Netflix Netflix experience division Pro even with like an immersive theater environment that's a really good app uh Infuse the video playback app is on Vision Pro I think it might just be test flight beta right now but it's really good they're making a lot of progress there are good signs but at the same time when you have developers sync dozens of people are using their apps every day that doesn't instill confidence in the future and and that's like it's a bigger problem than when the iPhone launched the App Store obviously I mean it's completely not even comparable because the iPhone at that time had a lot of adoption and the price it's the price thing is the by far the biggest with Vision Pro like period um and until they really get that addressed with the the next Vision Pro there's going to always be that issue where there's just not enough users for developers to be incentivized to make these games so it's like a chicken hick scenario it's like which one comes first yeah so and it's you can clearly see the companies that Apple's worked closely with to make good Vision OS apps like Disney Plus for example is a great great example of a really good Vision Pro experience they just launched their four fifth immersive environment this week it's a like an Iceland National Park environment and it's really good you have HBO or Max or HBO Max whatever it's called has immersive environments Paramount plus launched an immersive environment this week for SpongeBob you can clearly see where Apple's like holding developers hands a little bit to help them but that commitment I think isn't there in general and there's just not an incentive and you see that it's going Apple Vision Pro productivity all the developer power seems to be going towards entertainment so I feel that's what people are going to be gravitated towards cuz if you I'm starting to think I start to think of like an RSS feed or like the markdown app like how can you Vision proy that past what it what it really is you know like just throw the iPad app in there or I think the the most productive thing that you can do unless you're like you know suron or something like that or an engineer is yeah just pull up your second display get that Ultra wide Monitor and just you know work inside of Mac OS and then you know entertain yourself after the fact with going into the Disney Disney plus stuff so that's what I it's definitely just more of an entertainment device and I've noticed that yeah I gravitated towards it in the same scenarios that I would put over your headphones on right so like the airplane to watch a movie to pass time to listen to music or just when I was alone and I had nothing else to do I just throw it on and watch something right so from a productivity standpoint even though I feel like apple really wanted it to be productivity focused and they didn't want to be the next kind of meta Oculus whatever it's called now I feel like that's the way that they're kind of going I think I said this like in the week after Vision Pro came out where if Mac virtual display wasn't a feature this product would be so much less useful than it is that is just such a good escape hatch to have just be able to load up your Mac and use your Mac apps and it's getting better this year with vision OS 2 as well with the ultra wide interface and that feature like whoever had whatever Apple engineer was like we should put Mac OS virtualized on Vision Pro whoever came up with that like give them a raise because that deserves a raise that is so good it's so good D that's tough but uh so you're holding on to it you're liking is Vision OS 2 good you liking it vision os2 is great it yeah the new gesture to go to like the home screen and control center where you like look at your hand and turn it over that's really good the new Bora Bor environment's really good the keyboard occlusions good and it just feels Thoughts on immersive environments I I just wanted to know what your thoughts were only environments like that Bora Bora one is probably my favorite um but I always feel like I feel like I'm in handcuffs when I'm in those environments cuz it's like that's literally all you can do is look around like there's no movement within the environment it's like that would be so cool if we could walk down the beach right like and but you're like it's like you're it's like you have your hands by your back and you're just handcuffed to a tree and you're like take it in though take it in this is nice but uh I can't go down to see what that tree looks like down there and it's just it's it feels I don't know I kind of feel it's weird I feel a little claustrophobic using it because I you can't move in the environment yeah um so I just think that's such a I won't say missed opportunity CU because maybe Apple already has that plan where you can actually move around or just being able to see other people in the environment or other avatars or whatever the case may be like it just feels so lonely I guess and maybe that's the point like to get away but it just feels like not only are you secluded in this headset but then you're on the island by yourself it's like you've crashed a plane and then there's you're like Cast Away dude so it's nice in one aspect but it feels so lonely and secluded in another aspect I think I'm on the opposite side of you because I like that escape like that just give me some time by myself to do what I want to do whether I'm writing or whether I'm watching something like I like that I want to feel like I'm not just sitting at my desk staring at the same thing like I do for the eight like eight hours every day yeah understand them yeah I get that I think too there's what there's eight environments in Vision Pro right now from Apple and eight is a good number eight is more than six which we had in February but I do want more and you see an app like Disney plus that has five and Vision Pro is Apple's platform and they have eight and Disney plus has five that balance seems a little bit out of whack and I think part of it could be solved if Apple let those third-party apps like donate their environments to the system so where you're in Disney Plus for example and you're working in the Disney theater or you're watching something in the Disney theater why can't I also like go to the home View and open up other apps just like I can with an Apple app cuz right now Disney has those great environments and you can literally only use them to watch content that's on Disney plus yeah that is such a limitation and a huge missed opportunity I think yeah no I'm I'm a big fan of kind of uh using environments even outside of the Vision Pro like I'm the type of person that'll throw in those like YouTube environments where you're like at a beach and you just have like jazz music playing softly while like you read a book or like you're getting it's like my ambient noise right that's that's kind of how I like to use it so I I like the environments also especially the Disney ones but again it would be cool to to open them up a little bit and just be able to use them throughout the entire native interface yeah cuz like you said it's a missed opportunity for sure by Apple I'm trying to think of what other Vision oh I had one more question about the Vision Pro so you mentioned uh kind Using Vision Pro when family is around of going back to that loneliness aspect of it all so you're watching the MLB game it's a 7 o' game mhm you're what is your wife doing she happening so she's either situation like she's either working or doing doing well she was doing school work but she's done with school now so that's that's that but she is a big big reader she reads for hours every day which bodess really well for me having Vision Pro time because she'll just go off and read and I'll be like okay well I'm just going to watch some watch something on the Vision Pro and it's a great it's a great balance like but I can totally see where if that's not really your lifestyle or if you have kids especially yeah I can see we're putting on Vision Pro at 7:00 at night and immersing yourself in a baseball game is not going to go over over well with the rest of your family like I fully understand that and the loneliness is a big aspect I think for that those types of of families and those types of lives but that's not me right now so that's fair I guess that's true because I guess towards the end of the night to paint a picture put our daughter to bed around like 8 8:30 and yeah my wife she reads too and while she reads I'm I'm playing NCA 25 you know that's that's my time to play my video game so I guess that makes that does make a ton of sense but are are you guys like together does she interact with you when you have it on no no not really she'll go off into like a separate room or something or she treats it basically like if I was watching on like a TV like whether I'm watching on the TV in my office or the TV in the living room like that's how she treats she's like I don't care about baseball like watch your baseball game or watch whatever TV show I'm watching cuz we'll watch we have shows that we like watch together and of course I don't watch those on Vision Pro but I also have shows that I watch without her that she doesn't care about and that's what I'll watch on Vision Pro okay yeah cuz that's still that was one of the aspects that kind of threw me off in when I had it it was like again once I leave my office at like 5 whatever the case is like I'm not going to put that thing on at 6:00 when I'm going to go hang out you have eyesight why not you know I to fre eyesight I remember there was I had a video of my daughter she she was even doing this thing like out of nowhere she was just like pulling her hand up and just clicking on the air and she's like watch this and I was like all right it's time yeah and there's still no apple intelligence in right nope no and they Apple Intelligence and Apple Vision Pro there probably never will be I think Vision Pro has like so much computing power with the M2 Chip and the R1 chip but the Baseline of what Vision Pro is doing at any point is so much higher than the Baseline of what an iPhone or an iPad or a Mac is doing just with all of the whether you're using pass through or using an environment there's so much background stuff going on and that's why you see it get hot and maybe you have some crashes when you get too many apps cuz that was my biggest problem with the NBA app was if you had even just one game and all the stats like around the screen eventually it would get hot and it would just crash like it was hard to make it through an NBA game without a crash of some sort yeah I guess that's true that thing is doing so much already just to have its normal interface open but but I guess good segue what are your initial thoughts on Apple intelligence real quick I think it's a it's a great start it's a great startart I think the biggest misstep they've made is to launch the new Siri interface without any added functionality for Siri CU I think it just throws off your instincts you think Siri is so much more powerful than it is because it looks so good like that interface is absolutely gorgeous so cool so good and then you ask at something and it just completely falls down and it's like okay but I the writing tools are really good like proof reading rewriting summarizing especially on iPhone and iPad I think that experiences significant better there than on the Mac just because the interface on the Mac for writing tools isn't as good as it could be it's basically all like in that one like popup modal thing like there's no dedicated writing tools app there's no just bigger interface for it but I think it's it's off to a good start there's obviously a lot still to come the image stuff in particular is going to be interesting whenever like image playgrounds and Jin Emoji launch and then you do have the more powerful Siri coming at some point but hopefully May nobody my favorite feature so far I don't know about you chance but I love the summarized um messages notifications that is so good you receive a barrage of text from somebody and it's like you have to read through all these texts but here you just have this one little paragraph that summarizes the entire conversation you're like oh I know what that's about I can check it later yeah it's really good it's good even if 100 messages it'll it'll give you like the synopsis of what those messages are in like one or two lines which is crazy the one thing I've noticed is that it does a lot better with like not professional but like like if you're talking with a friend you're using a lot of shorthand and maybe some sarcasm and some some humor that Apple intelligence just doesn't get like I notice when I'm texting with Zach for example oh no our our texting is like really unhinged like I could show you the full messages and you wouldn't get it and the summaries that Apple intelligence comes up with are kind of funny but for most most m z is jumping off a cliff yeah exactly that's that's funny no that's cool I mean I'm I've been a fan of Apple intelligence so far like you said the the writing tools are cool one of the ones that I've noticed is May maybe it's getting better as it's like learning from me but it gives me like you know the suggestions that you get over the keyboard that are kind of like rainbowed you know they're getting better and better like it'll give me an entire phrase that I would say to like my wife or my friends or something like that and now I just got to like click it and it sends it so so I'm sure it'll get better over time and they give us more tools again beta one 18.1 they jumped the gun on this one too which is kind of weird where we have 18.0 and 0.1 running at the same time in the beta so we'll see how it goes and some of the most advanced features won't even be to like 18 I think Mark German has said the timeline for the more advanced series is like 18.4 four which would be that's crazy February sometime around there with iPhone 17 lunch this one yeah there's the real realistic possibility where some of the Apple intelligence features announced at WWDC 24 aren't available by WWDC 25 like that seems like a real possibility wow we're get we'll get there I guess do you want to talk iPhones real quick what you the new ones iPhone 16 it is kind of crazy that we're literally like a month away yeah probably about exactly a month yeah what what do you think first off what do you think about uh the iPhone 15 and 15 plus not having Apple intelligence support I think it signals how maybe last minute some of the Apple intelligence stuff was you have to think that if Apple iPhone lead times are so early like yeah iPhone specs and Hardware get finalized so far in advanced it seems like what happened is they'd finalized iPhone 15 specs so the a what is it a16 chip inside with gab of R before they knew what the Apple intelligence limitations would be which is A7 and particularly 8 gigabytes of RAM I think it it's one of those examples where like apple the left hand wasn't talking to the right hand inside the company and that's it's disappointing I think well there was a report about like Craig federi using like co-pilot and having sort of like um a light bu moment I don't know if that was like the thing that really spurred on the the development I think that story was that he was using co-pilot on Christmas break of 2022 so that would have been eight months n months nine months before the iPhone 15 was announced so yeah it they I just don't think they knew the strategy yet and that's why it's all messy right now it's interesting how they quickly jumped on they went from like no to yes on AI so quickly I guess they finally saw they like you know what man everybody's doing this we have to we have to applify this thing quick and figure out what our what our secret sauce is going to be and it's it is a shame like I do get a lot of people on Twitter kind of being poed that they just got a 15 plus you know like in February of this year it's brand new it's got USBC Dynamic Island but I'm not going to get the cool Siri animation they should just bring the Siri animation over and with no changes functionally that's what we have now so you might as well yeah I mean I can't think of another I mean can you guys think of another like major major feature like this baked in with within the OS that was like a year over year the previous version didn't get it I I don't think so usually Apple yeah yeah stage manager is a decent one that's iPad that's way that's way more Niche people don't really care about stage manager uh that was Major for me okay exactly but like Siri is just such a like integral part of the iOS experience and like to have a phone you bought just last year not have the basically it is Siri now like that is that's how Siri is going to be looked at going forward to not have that is that's pretty disappointing but dang so are 15 plus users and 15 users just going to have the normal Siri ball pop up like their interface is going to be normal Y no changes for them the fomo I would have maybe that's part of their plan let's get more people on the 16 yeah that's what some people I don't necessarily think limiting it to the 15 Pro and proax is out of spite or like a nefarious decision by Apple yeah I literally just think they screwed up and they weren't thinking far enough ahead when they were making L laying out the specs for the iPhone 15 yeah and like apple intelligence it just seems like oh we are we got to get on this like it it it was almost like that like he used it and was like oh he saw the potential and didn't really I don't think anyone really got it before then or yeah yeah so yeah they couldn't wait 10 years like they did with USBC they like we got to do this you know you didn't have like investors freaking out about the lack of USBC on an iPhone but you had investors freaking out about the lack of an AI strategy from from Apple it is crazy how like AI has just taken over in the last what three years maybe two years something like that yeah it feels like we've had it forever now which is crazy to think about and yeah two years ago it wasn't here now Apple's adopt this is definitely like the quickest ramp up I've seen Apple adopt something that wasn't you know Apple you takes your time with things nor you know they like to perfect it they like to be the best at it and it takes them four five six years to really do it and then this one was quick man I'm very surprised that they jumped on it so quickly yeah and the good thing though is that they've used AI like it's been an integral part of iOS for years right and even with Hardware aspect yeah the machine learning so it's really just like nomenclature almost at this point neural engine yeah what else we got I think that's too why you see apple like falling back on chat GPT as like such a big part of the Apple intelligence strategy I don't think they want to do that I don't in an Ideal World they would make their own chat bot but they just weren't ready for it so now you have chat GPT and hopefully Google Gemini and the others as options at some point but when does it go to chat gbt exactly like when I know that there's like a threshold that's stuff that's on device versus not you know what that threshold is what Apple says is that'll go out to chat GPT for things like World World Knowledge so Siri will chpt delay too or no am I making that up it varies depending on where you ask it but it has such a good like model of questions and facts about everything you could ever imagine whereas apple apple says the point of of Siri is going to be personal contexts doing things like with awareness about your device and your mail and your calendar and all of that type of stuff and if you ask it something like tell me the last the current roster of the Miami Dolphins that'll probably get passed out to Chachi BT fair cuz that's World Knowledge that's not on device come on no that's not built in there yeah just the Miami Dolphins throst that makes sense I mean Jee what do you think do you think you're gonna be using it like that or no I think so I mean yeah I could see that I think Siri is so I mean comparing Siri aery that you get now from Siri versus a quiry to chat GPT is like it's like asking a toddler versus asking someone who's lived 4 years like a 40 year old like it's just not even in the same ballpark of responses so yeah that's why I keep my action button set to chat GPT it's just my action button just opens the app yeah funny enough I just changed my action button to straight up call my wife just a quick one I forget who who I saw somebody on a video do that I was like you know what I don't really use the action button let me throw this on here yeah one one of the reasons I don't use the action button because the case I use is still I don't use an apple case so it's like super hard to really I need to like put a like an extension on my thumb to be able to click in there does it have the cutout for the action button and not the it does but it's just so recessed in there it's just like always forget remember case manufacturers had to like remake a bunch of cases cuz yeah they left the hole open like that but people had the problem that you're having yeah so then they had to replace the hole with an actual button like another volume guess I could put like a little little nub in there and just make it man let me send you a I got mad cases with the button let me send you one man all right Fernando's got cases and accessories piling up yeah blessed thank you got to play with all these toys I'm looking at the notes Fernando and I see you have something interesting in there all right yeah I mean want to play a little game to wrap this up chance sure what do we got yeah and we Apple Production word association game we can alternate maybe we'll go we can each give our words right so just a little word association game okay right I think I played this with uh Tom from bite review who was on on like two weeks ago so I'm going to throw out an Apple product name it could be a product physical it could be a service software and then you just give me one or two words that come to mind okay and then maybe on a couple we can elaborate a little bit all right cool so let's start with let's go with the iPod let chance go first the OG iPod it's the reason that apple is what it is today fair I would say I me Jeff jump in here too I couldn't afford it it's the most Jeff answer I could have imagined mine is uh U2 Edition that's the first one that I remember that black and red one I remember it was so cool didn't they have like Bono signature on the like a fake Bono signature on the back or something yeah they have two fingers touching like special edition boxes you know good time and now we just get nothing it's just like a sliver piece of cardboard but all right next next one next one let's do uh air tags stalking I stole yours chance no a a a great value $29 to help you find something you can't really beat that horse stalking that's a good one mine just goes to like luggage cuz yeah we've lost luggage before and Haven been able to find it the next day uh the next one I got is let's go with mag safe but the new like the version on the iPhone not the computer version significantly better than Chi charging it makes wireless charging useful yeah I like that one I'm gonna think H unexpectedly great for me I wasn't expecting much when it first came out and now with all these accessories it's nice it's definitely cool that's a versatility cuz there's like you said tons of accessories my favorite is the one where um it it's like a little I think it's from moment and it's just a like a little round circle with a whole bunch of quarter2 mounts so you can like Mount your iPhone in all these different ways it's really cool oh yeah Max was definitely a good surprise I was like what is this thing at at first and now I use it for everything uh let's go with continuity it just works for the most part that I was going to say infuriating because it works 96% of the time but then it doesn't work and when it doesn't like I can't get universal control to work right now between my Mac and my iPad for some reason and I have no idea why and there's like two settings and they don't actually do anything so it's like just doesn't work right now have to wait till the wind is blowing in a different direction or something then it'll work I mean the copy past fromc iPad to iPhone that is the best thing in the world you know every now and then like you said it doesn't work and like I got to copy it into my notes app and then it's got to sync and then I got to see it on my phone but when it does work like I said it's magic it is let's do like two more I guess uh we'll save that one for the last let's do iPad magic keyboard no USBC it's oh no you said iPad I'm thinking of back I'm like oh expensive it is expensive yeah what would I say over engineered but worth it not useful not as useful on the small iPad as that is on the big one okay I've never tried the 11inch magic keyboard I can see it being pretty cram though it is pretty yeah yeah you is that the one that you have yeah it's that's what Apple sent me the review unit and it's the 11in iPad Pro with Nano texture Nano texture is nice and the 11-in magic keyboard it is okay nice and I guess to to round it off the subject we started with Vision Pro and you can't say expensive [Laughter] Jeff um it's a tough one going to go with like over engineered when you think of things like eyesight and the the display on the outside and the curved OLED and whatever the lenticular OLED it's a little bit over engineered for what people actually want out of a product like this made out of like heavy metals you know yes yeah keep it premium I'm trying to think what would I say maybe like some sort of like the demo Master you know yeah it's a beautiful demo man like I remember when I had it the what brought a smile to my face was seeing people's reaction when I showed them what it could do you know yeah that was that was like one of my favorite Parts about div Vision Pro what you got Jeff he's gonna say expensive eBay eBay eay no don't sell it those things AR going for like $2,000 or less on eBay right now I think I saw they are yeah so you're better off just holding on to it je don't sell it you take a huge loss loss if you sell it I wonder what uh what their sales numbers are right now I have no idea they can't and it's not like they're not like airpods Macs or like over your headphones like it's harder to see these in the wild because you know there's something that you do at home mostly that's the thing yeah that's what we were talking about last week it's like the marketing aspect of it like the iPhone Market itself in a lot of ways because people saw you with it like I remember using one for the first time was a guy that I work with and I was like oh this is like this is a game changer like i' had seen seen the coverage on it but to actually use it in person was like mindblowing um and that's something that headsets and just by Nature you're really not going to have that experience as much unless it's like a friend or somebody like that mhm that's so true yeah well that was the last one that I had I like that little game get dring it's fun yeah yeah well chance we always appreciate your expertise and like just um you're you're good at what you do thank you prolific and uh yeah we appreciate you um all you do so thank you for joining us of course happy to do it anytime Y and happy birthday man leave some comments down below yeah not going to say how old you are let people guess down below see what they think uh if you shave the beard it' probably be like 21 though yeah it it'll take quite a few quite a quite a number of years off yeah [Music]