The return of Michel Barnier: Will divided France approve Macron's PM pick? • FRANCE 24 English

the seven week wait is over after France's youngest prime minister of the past Century enter its oldest demanuel Macon naming Brussels veteran Michelle barer to try and form a government that can survive a vote of no confidence The eu's brexit Negotiator will have to muster all of his negotiating Savvy the president gamble on Snap elections delivered in the most splintered Parliament since the 1958 Constitution and by the way the party of lifelong gist barer finished fifth in the July elections that begs the broader question who's got the legitimacy to govern and with what mandate after these elections General deal set up a fifth Republic where the powerful president can weigh on policy even when his part's in opposition how much power does u m retain now that he has shown his hand and made up his mind today in the France 24 debate the return of Michelle barer joining us from stasbor Fabian ker member of the European Parliament from Emanuel macron's renew party thank you for being with us thank you good evening like barer he's a former environment Minister but not of the same political leaning Brice Leon president today of the environmental advocacy groupy thanks for joining us thank you for inviting me uh socialist deputy mayor of Paris Olivia pulski is with us as well good to see you welcome I'm here a political sign is Damian Lon researcher at Paris ponon sbon University welcome and France 24 politics editor uh Mark Perman good to see you you can always listen to the show that's right listen to it wherever podcasts are streamed despite half a century in French politics and stin as foreign minister and European commissioner Michelle barer was arguably better known on the other side of the channel as that brexit negotiator than he was here in France his midday appointment Reviving The 73-year old's domestic notoriety Emerald Maxwell has more best known internationally as the European Union's brexit negotiator Michel barer is a conservative career politician who has held Minister positions in several French governments including under jaac Shak and Nikolas sarosi he was first elected to Parliament in 1978 aged 27 representing Alpine savvo District in 1992 he helped organize the Winter Olympics in his constituency an event still Central to his Public Image barer is pro-european twice working as an EU commissioner including from 1999 until 2004 as commissioner for regional policy in the prod commission then as commissioner for internal market and services during which he negotiated new regulation of financial markets after the 2008 GL crash then in 2016 bar took the Reigns in the brexit negotiations after Britain's referendum on leaving the block cherrying we avoided cherry picking and we defended the values and principles of the European Union this was our first requirement long seen as a moderate the 73-year-old toughened his discourse during his failed bid to get his conservative party's ticket for the 2022 presidential election saying immigration was out of control since then barer has kept a low profile for Emanuel macron he offers continuity and reassurance that he won't undo his political agenda of the last few years Fabian ker nobody was mentioning Michelle Bar's name until 24 hours ago are you surprised by this pick yes I am surprised as all the French people um we knew it was very difficult to find somebody that would not have to support a motion of censure that means he rejected right away by the French assembly National so it was difficult the first names such as M KV who was former prime minister of FR was apparently not uh safe he was not sure to be supported by a majority so this is why Emanuel Macon and it's a surprise for all of us looked for something on the right side of the the political Spectrum uh even though the uh gains the numbers of votes on the left side was stronger in in July this year so it was a surprise for all of us may I say that Gabriel atal did a a good job in unfortunately Too Short a time period but he had to face a great big agricultural crisis in the beginning of the year and for Mr B it will be a big U issue to consolidate a moderate Centrist majority with the Centrist on the right and on the left we'll see how it will turn out Bri L is this the right pick you know what I was uh quite surprised to listen to the both they spoke about their mother it's quite nice actually but not a word about the war in Ukraine it's incredible there is a war in Europe and you have a country which is well a big country who has a strong history in interfering you taking care of the world affairs nothing nothing it's quite surprising does it mean France is not interested in foreign policy does it mean that we don't care about what's happening I am I am shocked I am surprised because lots of these people including Mr bar I suppose they want to defeat Mr Putin but how do you defeat Mr Putin without triggering a World War this is something which we need to know but otherwise is it a good pick oh well he's respectable he he has been minister of the environment so he knows about Energy Systems he's been a negotiator you'll probably need his talents to be a good negotiator but otherwise I think his profile is more like a technical one he's like he's the the best of the technical pecks you could choose a technical one so not political po technical so in other words he's kind of like uh people were saying they should do like the Italians probably Mario dragi the former European Central Bank president you're saying that he's the same as am Mario dragy I think yes he's roughly the same he's probably not going to be happy if I say that but I think I think for maon you know for what can we do and and it's quite interesting because he was member he was a commissioner the European commissioner but when he wanted to become president of France you know he was candidate to the primaries of the Republican Party he suddenly said Oh we must get rid of the sovereignty of the of the European jurisdictional sovereignty we must have back we must take our Sovereign back and and we we found it I mean the most incredible anti-european statement at the moment is was incredible so we don't really know D is is is uh for you Michelle barer a technocrat or a politician I'm not convinced he is that technical I think he is a political choice and indeed when he was candidate for the conservative nomination he he he did adopt some very eurosceptic stances and I think obviously he's an experiment experimented and respectable man but I think that the major political event is that is prime minister Emanuel macron chose a prime minister who is going to uh to depend largely on the absten of of the national rally on the fact that the national R will not vote him out and it's a real major political event I think given the uh this uh divided National Assembly uh it was necessary to have a minority government but uh the the result of the legislative election was a victory of the Republican front against the national rally and the ution could have been a minority government from the left tolerated by the Centrist Coalition but the president chose um a rightwing man was going to be dependent on the national R and that is a major political Factor yeah here's here's what Michelle B has to contend with a new National Assembly where the largest party is that of marine leen's farri National rally there you see them uh in dark blue on that on that pie chart uh while the largest vter voting blocks a coalition uh known as the new popular far right um uh I'll read you the reaction oia pulski of marine Leen um saying we will be attentive to the project He Will Carry uh uh and attentive to ensuring that the aspiration of our voters who represent a third of the French are heard and respected is she the king maker she is M made him the king maker make her the king maker um because he has chosen a prime minister coming from the weakest party I mean the Republican uh who lost the two last elections European one and the legislative one and they even stepped back and um he knew they were weak uh and um he Tred he wanted at first Xavier bertron but uh Marin and said no so he had to choose someone else and she's making the the the the that one and uh they we all know that um it's terrible in fact there are three paradoxes paradoxes with this Choice the first one is that mcon should chose a prime minister from the weakest party the second one is that the left uh was the first uh an party elected and uh the Democratic logic was to find uh a prime minister in the in the with the left and uh he didn't try even try and then uh we know that um if that word was said maon chose him because the far right said okay so he he Lo what was his conclusion of the legislative what did he conclude no CH no change and even a sort of submission of the far right before I turn to Mark Perman Fabian k um you heard Damian Lon saying uh that uh the president had the option of trying to get a minority government that leans between the center and the left instead he's opted for one that's counting on the far right to abstain uh you agree with with with that there was this Choice he tried it was his choice when he tested when he discussed with Bernard kazav um but unfortunately the Socialists who were they happen to be in uh their Congress uh decided with a small majority but with a majority not to support that type of Coalition so the Socialists who are part of this extreme right and socialist and green Coalition decided not to support that solution it was the same situation for Mrs casted who was proposed by the left side so he this is why probably I am not at his place but he tried another solution forcing in some ways at least a part of the Republicans the moderates more European Republicans to join this future Coalition but as some of your people around the table I am worried about the idea that there could be some uh relations some discussions with the national the FR National Mrs Leen and this is very worrisome because clearly the message of the election was we want to stop theem National to get the power so that is not acceptable so this is why we are U all in some way happy that finally we found a solution a prime minister is designed but we will check his behavior and if he makes sure to protect the Republican values in the new governments he's going to be Mark Perman uh he he mentioned uh he saluted law enforcement at the outset uh there were few times law talk about Law and Order during his his initial remarks which we carried live earlier Bri Lon pointing out that he that the new prime minister did not mention Ukraine is that also a way of uh trying to ass perhaps appease in this time of negotiation uh the national rally and and and not throw up a red flag to the far right right I mean not mentioning uh Ukraine uh International Affairs are essentially the purview of the president so uh you know it doesn't shock me as much as it shocks you what he had to say about keeping immigration in cck this was obviously a message sent to Marine Le Pen clearly I mean he said security and keeping immigration in check because he knows that she has a veto right essentially on his future uh because if she decides to join hands with the leftist Coalition in government in a motion of no confidence Michelle barer can say bye-bye to uh the position of prime minister so what Marine Leen has said is it we won't join the left outright for a motion of no confidence but we'll see uh what Michelle B has to say and how he will act so uh the the threat is there I don't see any uh National rally ministers in his future government this would really be an earthquake uh but he will be under the threat of the national rally what's really ironical is that uh before Emanuel called for those snap elections uh there were a lots of pressures even from the outgoing president Nicolas sarosi I mean the former president Nicholas sarosi to have an alliance between Emanuel macron and uh the conservatives in Parliament and they would have had an absolute majority and now you find yourself uh with the same kind of Alliance but a much weaker majority so uh politically we see that what Emanuel macron has done is uh really self-defeating in many ways because he has a weak president with a weak prime minister so okay if I can just something which is don't understandable which is during the election there was a coalition the Coalition of the people who didn't want the National Valley to to to win and so that Coalition you had the center right you had the maon people you the it's what's known as the the Republican front in the second round you vote against the Far So if you have a coalition of that sort during the election why is it that that Coalition is not able to rule the country well we don't know yet CU there hasn't been well come on it's not that it's not that configuration he hasn't made he hasn't picked his cabinet yet okay and the Republican refused to be part of that Republican uh front no well no during the election they were part during the legislative they refused well they they they split apart some of them did support Mar Leen others did not you mentioned yapi that the the left got the as a block the most seats and they even put forth their own pick for prime minister the hither to unknown High civil servant Lucy gaste her name was rejected by President maon and the left that that leftwing block known as the new popular front today well it's denouncing this pick of Michelle B let's listen the election has thus been stolen from the French people the message has been denied and now we see a prime minister appointed with a permission and perhaps even on the suggestion of the national rally even though the second round of the Parliamentary elections was wholly focused on ensuring the national rally should not succeed now uh your party is part of that uh Coalition but you're not a member of M's no party would you agree the election's been stolen those are strong words well no I do agree and I think that uh maon should have tested in reality in Real uh the Lucy castet option as frand said today he he we we had to he had to to test it in reality not just to seeing a few people why didn't he do it D well he he he has Justified his choice to dismiss Lucy by saying that uh she would have been immediately voted out because uh his own Coalition vowed to to vote her out but that is a problem I think uh Fabian K said that he tried to have a minority government left Ling but I think he did not try that hard because he could have called his own members of National Assembly to uh adopt a more constructive attitude towards the new popular front and to uh to be ready to uh discuss and negotiate with Lucy and she was willing to uh many of the Centrist leaders have blamed je for saying that uh a new popular friend government would have to implement all its platform and only its platform but Lucy caste was adopting a much more constructive approach he was willing to negotiate with the the the Centrist with the Centrist Coalition so it did not try very hard to uh uh to choose minority government inside the Republican front and I think that once again choosing a prime minister that in all probability is going to rely on the exension of the national R it is really at odds with the result of the legislative election which which was a victory of Republican France against the national R so Fabian kill why didn't Emanuel Macon let the the The Pick of the left uh this High civil servant Lucy caste have a shot at it and fall on her own sword and then start again and we maybe we'd get Michelle barer and in phase two well because he decided to protect the institutions and design somebody that had the chance to gather a majority so not to be kicked out with the m immediately after her designation and he counted and because uh none of the Republicans not of of the rightwing people would support her the count was not in favor of War this is why he tried Bernard K strange behavior from the Socialist not supporting him even though he was coming from the Socialist group so he wanted to propose somebody who could resist to this first check and not have an instable National Assembly and government sorry uh kicked out and several Minister be being designed this was his choice I think it's very wise to to ensure the stability of the institution and that led to that final Choice today that's very unfortunate that it was not you know I am member of the European Parliament it's really unfortunate that we were not able to discuss in a positive way all the those people who were against the rbl national during the election and find a platform exclude also extreme left as you know it's not possible because they are anti-semite they don't respect certain Republican values so the people at the center respecting uh Republican values Gathering and finding building a common platform that cannot be the platform of a group and that was the for example the problem of Mrs cast who wanted to apply the platform of the new I think it's a lie I think till the beginning uh Eman wanted a prime minister from the right uh party of course the day after the legislative he had lunch with zavier beron Valerie PES and Laur V members of the conservative party and I'm sure yeah I'm sure he already knew he wanted that that's for sure Fabian ker uh I've read the Foreign Press these last uh seven weeks there's a lot of disparaging remarks when it comes to the French discovering uh what normal in countries like Belgium the Netherlands Germany and that Italy which is Coalition building uh and they there's a feeling that we're still getting it wrong today what do you say to that we don't have this Coalition culture and I'm very impressed when I discussed with my colleagues who describ the Germans the Spanish recently the Belgian that take a long time in Belgian but some in some other countries they do that in one two months in a reasonable time they build a common platform and they accept all to differentiate their behavior as what they had during the election and say what is essential for them not the total program they presented so it's not yet in the French culture I hope it will progress because I think it's a very constru way to look forward not saying that a side is right the other one is wrong on all the subjects no by working together making as a prerequisite the fact that we respect the same values and this is also what's a bit Fabian K what's a bit the question is when you're doing that Coalition building you have to pick a prime minister fast and then uh they try to F form a fine parties why is it that that's hard not always not always sometimes they choose the first one and then another one or they discuss among the parties structures to see whether um somebody is naturally leading the the new Coalition it's very impressive in the German situation where they don't always know what form the Coalition will take they have different discussions at the same times with different groups possible groups they take they have have some discussion before the elections I must say also so it's not at all in our culture I think it's progressing quickly but it did not permit us to build a real common program where we could gather enough voices to well this is what support the government Bron this is what sort of clouds the issue a little bit here in France I saw you shake your head when Mark Perman was talking about foreign policy being the remit of the of the president uh the point is is that the 1958 Constitution made by General deal does give powers to the president that no other Western European democracy has probably too much yes and it's it's complicated you know between the Prime Minister and the president so these two guys which are driving the country it's complicated but and even in the past when we've had power sharing it was always the question of who's in control of what it was an open debate absolutely they were Go I mean you know it was mean sh they were both going to the international meetings to the G set to the G20 yes absolutely but I mean the in in France the Constitution is very clear it's the government which brings which rules the country on paper well on paper exactly and and it's very important I mean I I am I am concerned by by this war in Ukraine I'm sorry just to come back to it I'm concerned I'm afraid of of of a World War I'm afraid of this escalating all the time you know we start by sending arms and after um airplanes and new missiles which are ready to hit in the middle of Russia it's very dangerous and we don't care and our government is also pay we are paying we are paying a lot of money to Ukraine we are sending arms weapons we could stop we could we could have a government saying we have to create a channel to discuss to negotiate how many people are dying every day I mean it's people just don't care so I'm surprised by that okay but I understand M must must also be part of of the solution you know one day M said oh we're going to send French troops on the ground what we're going to send French troops he said it was a hypothesis yes yes but he said it and you shouldn't you must be careful it's it's funny because Emanuel macron didn't had any discussions with other parties before uh and now he's trying to tell us that we are not able to do a Collis but he hasn't we have seen before we have seen this merrygoround of political leaders who've been welcomed to the presidential Palace over the last seven weeks Mark Burman yes we've seen but it's been on and off and and did you get the sense Mark that this was negotiations or kind of job interviews that we were watching it was essentially job interviews because I don't think there's been a lot of discussion about forming a government uh clearly you could see in the remarks by Michelle B that it was essentially you know an impro I mean he didn't have a real speech he was was just talking off the cuff and yes he said there would be changes and so on I'll be a truth teller and so on any of us could give that kind of speech uh and so he has to former government and then uh build a budget that's the number one one priority because the clock is ticking work should have started already on the budget uh under the close watch of Brussels and financial markets so that's his top priority but then what kind of reforms can he Implement and the problem uh I think uh maon has had with the left is that he doesn't want to see some of the reforms uh come apart and especially the uh pension system reform that was deeply unpopular and clearly the left had said this is a red line for us and even I understand Bernar kov when he was interviewed he conveyed the notion that if not an abrogation a suspension of the reform should be on the table and this was not acceptable for Emanuel macron with Michel barer yes they come from different parties but they agree on Europe they agree on fisal policy they agree more or less let's say on on immigration and they agree on uh maintaining uh the the reform of the pension system so it's easier for maon who has moved towards the right anyone can see that uh to uh govern with a prime minister from the right so Daman L it's back to what we were talking about a moment ago in France the president doesn't have to relinquish all the power he still wants to hang on to his reforms he did did he lose or not the election I thinkon did lose the election but he he he find a way to um to maybe have a government that is not going to alter too much of his best his best policies um I think that it is true that we do not have a um a coalition political culture in our country but I must say I think the the the Centrist Coalition macron's Coalition was precisely not very constructive in in reaching Coalition inside of the Republican front because uh they they didn't they did not want to engage any discussion with the new popular front on the basis of their platform they did not even want to acknowledge that they they were the largest Coalition and so they had some right to uh at least be at the initiative to to to propose government and so so I think that really em mcon wanted to to to have a government uh to have a change but also the least change possible in the polic my question is the institutions allow maon to uh keep a lot of the uh a lot to still have a lot of say in all of this it is complicated because as we said earlier the the in the Constitution the president is not the head of a government is not the one who decide the policy of the government it is the prime minister who governs but it is true that in most of the fifth Republic uh when the president enjoy the supp enjoys the support of a majority of the National Assembly he can appoint a prime minister who def first to him and so he indirectly but actually governs uh so right M Mr steinm in Germany once he's named a prime minister as he will probably next year when there's a when there's new elections if if if then it's up to that prime minister to form the Coalition absolutely the president of Germany doesn't come in and say well you should pick this person for for this post will Emanuel mol be trying to weigh in on the cabinet discussions of course I think it's probably going to because uh we we learned that in his discussions with ber Kaz andon he wanted to appoint himself the ministers for foreign affairs for defense and maybe even for interior and other important ministers so I think is probably going to to want to choose or to discuss at least many if not all of the the member of the of the Michelle government fael do the French want their president to stay out of it or to get involved the the French tradition is very different from the German where the president is not at all dealing with day-to-day U issues executive issues uh in the French um tradition as you know the go was the first president so he was very strong having a prime minister very tightly connected to him so it was strong we had some historical times of cohabitation where the Prime Minister was not of the same sensitivity as the president that was the case with fron what who was it ja Shak as well when he was president and it was quite tough because they were handling discussing a lot about whose responsibility it is to represent France in uh the European institutions or for some important issues of decision we had it again with jpa but um it's it's not the use in the fifth Constitution French Constitution is very different of any other European place is stronger what did the French want the tradition of the French was to have a very strong president and a government very linked to the the same majority that is the one in the National Assembly it's not anymore the case we don't have a clear majority supporting the the president so we have to build something new and this is the full issue of the new Coalition we have to build maybe we we're not at at the end of the road to find a new way to manage this very specific political situation Mark Perman was mentioning earlier uh pension reform being uh one of those political third rail issues during the campaign uh the uh it was the left but also the far right that uh wanted to uh repeal or at least amend uh the pension reform bill of a couple of years back Mal leen's party uh this Thursday easing off a little bit when it comes on pension when it comes to pension reform saying that's not the priority but one of the demands made is a campaign promise that was made by mol back in 2017 proportional representation in Parliament France currently has a two- round system uh it's by constituency which effectively amounts to 577 individual races this is what the the National Assembly looks like today in fact uh French newspaper Leon did several simulations with what the National Assembly would look like if it had proportional representation this one's the most straightforward this would be according to the National tally uh of the overall uh vote and and you see that uh it would be quite different uh you'd still have though a three-way Parliament fact is today's politics BR Lon you don't you no longer have the big tent center right party the Big 10 Center left party it splintered as it splintered by the way in a lot of European countries your thoughts proportional representation would that help or hurt we thought the German situ solution was the best you have half of the parliament is direct vote like in France or like in UK and the other half is proportional so it's sort of a balance of the two systems and I thought it was the best orki well uh we are in in favor of the proportion proportion how would it change the culture of French politics uh well uh you'd have to build coalitions you the dut have SP months by the way forming a government we were able I think we were able to do such a thing but after we if we have a party that is in uh uh the first one you have this is a leader of the of the of a government of a coalition so he has to try to find some compromise but he has some a base why are politics more splintered than they used to be Daman why why is it now that it isn't just a straightforward left versus right why it's a very complicated question there is a lot of factors in that the the the rise of emuel macony in 2017 has fragmented the the French party system it is clear but it is clear also that our institutions and our political culture right now are not really adapted to to this new situation and I do think that uh as as we said the uh political culture right now is not in favor of coalitions but it is uh I think also because the the institutions and the Electoral incentives with the presidential election and with the majority electoral system uh do not favor coalitions I think that indeed if if we have uh a new proportional representation it could indeed favor the more coalitions because right now any block can still hope that uh even with a very small plurality of the vote they can reach an absolute majority in in the National Assembly uh with the majority system so it does not favor coalitions right now faban kill do you agree yes um I would say also that um if we have a proportionate election then it means that the candidates are chosen by the parties it's a party system whereas inconsistency is the party but it's also due to the link to the person his or her personalities capacity to go talk to the citizens so it means that the half and half system might be balanced the good one as said the bris Lon because it has a big default this party system is dangerous yeah and Mark Perman we know that in other countries you uh you know can lob uh uh insults uh at your opponents up to a point if you know that you're then going to have to negotiate with them on the day after the election right uh but it's true I mean there there is however I mean clearly I mean this uh election and now this trying to find a prime minister there's a legitimacy issue I mean people are complaining about politics and so on and uh you've had it in the election the national rally has said this artificial Republican front and we see that it it didn't last very long was done just to prevent us from winning if there was a proportional vote at least we would be represent Ed and uh so and people were saying well it's just the the far ride because they you know they were shouting for years when they were small minority uh but clearly uh there is an argument to this that you know the National Assembly should represent the votes of uh the people and if you have 30% who vote for whichever party there should be uh you know you can always a mandate have a 5% threshold but there needs to be Emanuel Macon promised it the problem is that he didn't have enough votes for a constitutional reform because the Senate was is in the hands of the right and they didn't didn't want it but maybe we didn't hear Michelle bar mention this at all but maybe it will come up in his policy speech before Parliament there is a need to do this at least to tell the people we're listening to you because right now it seems that the politicians are living in their own worldi the national rally taking a pragmatic approach saying we want onethird of the vote they're not even though they're the single party that got the most seats they're not claiming they won they didn't uh is the left perhaps shooting itself in the foot by we're hearing a lot of people saying we won the election well we didn't say we won the election we said we were the first uh party and uh that's well that's not exactly the same but uh in fact that that was the choice of the French people and I think that we have to listen to the French People's Choice and uh well uh National rally Mar Len is quite intelligent she knows uh and she's waiting her turn in 2027 so she lets uh Emanuel macron and the right and the Republicans do what they want and she's just uh saying uh okay I'm not agree with this one but I do agree with this one she's chosing and uh she she's uh leading uh the choice and um she's showing it she is showing how weak they are just a word on final word on this one point dami Dam again I asked that question what do the French want at this point because we've seen polls are confusing on the one hand we saw the results on the other hand I saw a poll last week that said that the the Prime Minister who just left Gabriel atal was the most popular uh among the list of uh of candidates for prime minister so what do the French want at at this point it is very hard to say because obviously the French people is really divided and it is reflected on this very divided National Assembly but once again I think that major political event is that the the legislative election was a defeat of the national rally because of this Republican front in in this Republican front the new popular front the left leftwing Alliance was the driving force of this uh of his Republican front and the Centrist Coalition benefited of it the most and I think it is really uh at all with the result of the election that now we have a Conservative Republican uh prime minister that is going to rely on the on the national Le to to stay in power I think so I think that between the result of the election and now this is the choice of prime minister there is a real yettis I think I think yeah yeah I think we want to be proud of our country I mean the French people want to be proud of their country they want to be proud of the politicians they were so happy with the Olympic Games fantastic with very well and you had good and it was nice to see the guys jumping and and everything so our politicians they don't have they don't propose anything what what what's the the beautiful Horizon where are we where are we you know what are they proposing and we've got the the parties people don't like this discussion between the parties you know that was the the goal when he came in after the Fourth Republic he said oh all these parties discussing we don't know what they're discussing about we need need something more simple and and of course somebody we admire which was Al and so it happened that way so in front we still have the Nostalgia The Nostalgia of of the goal of a great man with a with a fantastic you know way of being listen to we are we are we are sad we don't have great politicians that that's something we we are afraid of what advice would you give Michelle barer today yski I'm not able to give an advice to to Michelle barer but uh well um I I'm not uh I'm sure he's not going to have a um a left uh policy so if he reaches out to the left he's going he may be try to pick some personalities he will uh but that that's not our uh our program that's not what we are he's not bad he was the first right-wing politician who took seriously into account the environment the first he was the first before him environment was just something flowers and and birds and and he came and he was a good Minister for the environment and he took the first one to be serious from the right side so this man is not so bad let's let's wait and see I mean you know we don't know what's going to happen he's probably going to listen to the to the left also he knows he has to final question Fabian is it mission impossible for Michelle barer to broaden his room for maneuver is Coalition those you we can work with I hope not I think he has a large experience a capacity to listen to All I hope it will stay the sist the social goist I happen to have known in the past uh I don't like his last positions he took when he was candidated in the primary election of the Republicans against the European treaties on migration issues so I hope it will be open to Reen unite um French body people in France who are profoundly defied with excessive words on and ideas on the extreme right and the extreme left so he has this difficult job to reconcile uh a majority of uh representative in the National Assembly but also French people and he's gonna have to first off try to form a government Fabian ker many thanks for joining us from stasbor I want to thank as well Brice lone Mark Perman danian Olivia polski thank you for being with us here in the France 24 debate