How a Legendary NFL Receiver Became a Wall Street Player | The Deal

Intro So Larry Fitzgerald, this is another one we've really had circled on the, on the calendar. 17 years as an Arizona Cardinal College Football Hall of Fame, inductee this year, certain first ballot hall of famer for the NFL and an incredibly successful businessman already. And everything you just said, Jason is the least impressive thing. It it's really who this person is as a human being. Yeah. A humanitarian. Right. What he does in philanthropy, his relationships, and this is a guy that in business has become a titan. the last, you know, dozen years or so. And I think he's gonna be even a more successful businessman than he was wide receiver. And that's saying a lot, right? 'cause he's one of the all time greats And one of the biggest choices he made was to really root himself here in Arizona. He gets close with the late John McCain and really like, truly embeds himself in this community in a way that feels like has made an exponential difference for his impact. Yeah. And he's a believer of going narrow and deep. Yeah. The fact that he made a, a conscious decision to stay right here, be loyal to one market, to one team, pretty phenomenal. He's got an unbelievable capacity for all of these deals that he's invested in. And also as, as you have rightly pointed out, really sees it very holistically the human side of it, the team building, the, the leadership. So many things that I'm really interested to unpack over the next hour. Meet Larry Fitzgerald Alright, well let's start by having you introduce yourself and what you do. My name is Larry Fitzgerald. And, you know, I would say I'm a serial entrepreneur. I don't like to box myself in any, in any one way. I'm always looking to grow and, and learn. I, I think I'm just a student of life. And if you've always been like that, it sounds like that's, that's how you've always been. Is that how you thought of yourself even as a kid? I would say that, I don't know if I thought of myself like that as a kid, but I would say I was described that way as a kid, you know? Yeah. I would even be reprimanded by my teachers for asking too many questions. Often, I was, I was the kid. I was that kid. So, so how does it work again? So if you did it this way, would it work that, you know, so I was, I was always, I was always that, but I, I was never afraid to ask the questions. If I didn't understand it, I, I want to understand it. Yeah. And if I don't ask, I'm not, I'm not gonna get the information I need. You know, it's interesting, Alex, being here in, in Arizona, you know, one of the things, 'cause like your dad, I'm a journalist and so I have a lot of respect for that. But, you know, like, you love asking people questions. I know you do this too. My favorite people to ask, taxi drivers and Uber drivers. So of course, last couple days here, I'm like, Larry Fitzgerald, what do you think? They're like, oh, that's my guy. Like, I mean, but what's interesting is they say, that's my guy and he's out everywhere. Like you, you know, you're, you're like deeply embedded in this community. So I wanna talk about Arizona because you come to play here, but you really choose to make it your place. Why? Yeah. I, I, I, and I'm not saying this to disparage anybody else in the way they go about their business, but I think the younger generation, they're, they're, they're really shortsighted in how they look at their careers, right? And I always wanted to think, kind of think about a 40 year plan as opposed to a four year plan. Yeah, I could go over here and chase a ring there, but there's no way I would be able to have a deep, you know, thoughtful relationship with the city and the people there. You know, I can go to the Boys and Girls Club here and I've had a relationship with them for 20 years. Big Brothers, big Sisters, you know, Zion Institute of Education. Like, I can go on down the list that I've known the CEOs board members for decades, and we have a relationship that is, is not transactional. They understand it. They, they see me in the field, they see me working, you know, in terms of real estate development. You talk about restaurants, you talk about government relations, like all of those. I have great relationships here. It is because I was, I've been here for 20 years and it's, they've seen the good, they, they follow me during the bad and they, and they see that I'm loyal and they've shown me the same loyalty. And I just don't think I would've been able to do that if I would've bounced from city to city to city. Arizona's given me everything. 17 years they've made me, they'd helped me live my dream. Now I'm gonna spend the next 50, 60 God willing years. I'm here on this earth, you know, giving, giving back what I feel like I received. And like that was my thought process at 20 years old, it's my, is my thought process at 40. And hopefully it'll be my same process, thought process at 60, I was reading about the college football Hall of fame and, and even the folks at Pitt were talking about this one thing just caught me was this idea that every time you scored a touchdown, just handed the ball to the official. Like there's this psych mindset that you have always had. That is even, it feels like, where does that come from? Well, I, I was, I come from a family of a bunch of educators, and I'll take you back to a story. My, from my grandfather. My grandfather, he was one of the leaders of the, of the, the, the Kappa's, you know, fraternity. And I remember as a, I was probably like my second or third year, you know, a couple couple years I've made all pro and my, I went back to Chicago to see my grandfather and he was there with a bunch of his friends. They were there doing a fundraiser for, you know, something, I can't remember. And my grandfather's like, I want you guys to meet, I want you to meet my grandson. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Okay. So he brings me over, there's a bunch of like 15 guys and he's like, this is my grandson Larry. He's the only grandson that I have that doesn't have his college degree. That's how he introduced me. No, seriously, that's how he introduced me. So like, he, it, Wow. It didn't, it didn't matter what I was doing, how many touchdowns I caught. You know, education is something that's important to this family, and you are the only one that doesn't have it outta your cousins. So I need you to, I need you to get that. You know? And so like, it, it was very, they always had a way of like letting you know, like, sports is great, but you know, you're gonna make your greatest impact with your brain. And, and so like, that was always something that was kind of drilled into us at a really young age. And so I I, I really appreciate my career. Don't, I don't wanna take anything away from it. Just I set out to do it and I was able to achieve great things. But sports was just another chapter in the book. Growing up in Minnesota Let's talk a little bit about Minnesota. I bought a home there. I love it. Tell me about growing up there. I mean, who were some of your, your favorite sports teams? Yeah. Some of the people you looked up to. And tell me a little bit about the people of Minnesota. Yeah, Alex, you hit it on the head, man. I, I think, you know, you hear Minnesota nice quite, quite, quite often and you like, I don't really notice it until there's like certain things, you know, you go to New York and you go to California, the pace is like much faster. You go home and you see a lady pushing her bags, you know, she's walking out of, you know, Cub Foods. You know, it's a local, local restaurant or local food, you know, grocery store. And like, you see people like rushing to her to help her put her bags in the car. Yeah. Growing up in Minnesota was like truly a blessing for me. And I have so many fond memories, you know, like you said, some of my mentors, like Kirby Puckett, god rest his soul. Hall of fame, center fielder, you know, MVP, he would invite us by the house for Thanksgiving. You know, I, I would go to the park, you know, my dad, media interviews were done and before in baseball games, very different from like basketball. Yeah. And football would've happened after they go and talk to the media before the games. And you know, I remember Kirby Puckett for a seven o'clock game would be at the park at 11, you know. Wow. Be at the park at 11, you know, taking, taking pop flies. 'cause the Metrodome you, you played in the Metrodome. Yeah. Like when you hit it up into the, to the roof, you know, the white, the white ceiling would, you know, you know, cause a lot of problems, which you've seen in it. And Kirby would do it a hundred times before every game, you know, 12 o'clock in the afternoon for a seven o'clock game. And so, like, I just saw the dedication, the commitment to excellence. He's been playing, you know, 10 plus years in this building, but he never took it for granted. Right. He worked on it every single day. That attention to detail really resonated with me. And like those type of lessons, Cris Carter, who was, you know, widely known as the guy who had the best hands in the National Football League, right. And I was thinking, why does he have the best hands? And I would see after practice, he would catch 200 balls every day. And so like all of these little, you know, nuggets that I would see that my dad was able to, to, to let me see, he exposed me to these opportunities. And like, it was, it was great to be 10, 11, 12 years old, seeing, oh my God, that's a dream. You know, why Kevin Garnett was different. Yeah. You know, you know, practice starts at nine and he's there at six in a full sweat before practice starts when these young guys are walking in the gym and he's 12 year veteran. And he's, I mean, like, that type of commitment to excellence was things that I saw every day Last week, Mentors speaking of teachers, and you know, one of the big themes is mentors. And I saw your father just a couple days ago. He was at a Timberwolves game, very respected, Mr. Fitzgerald. He says, tell my son I say hello. I was like, yes sir. What, what impact did he have in your life? I mean, my father and my mother were the catalyst, you know, for everything. And my mom and dad, they worked two opposite ends of the spectrum. My dad know sports journalist for 44 years now in the Twin Cities area. And, you know, you name it, you know, I got a chance to be around Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Kirby Puckett, Mark McGuire, you know, and then on the Vikings, Randy Moss and Cris Carter. And like the, the list goes on and on. And, and then my mom was in the non-for-profit space. And you know, she worked primarily in HIV and AIDS and in breast cancer fields. And so there was times it was really difficult to internalize some of the things that I saw, you know, at a young age. I mean, from the age of probably seven to to 18, I probably saw no exaggeration, 30 people lose their lives to complications of, of HIV and AIDS and also losing their lives to, to cancer. And so it gave me a really interesting perspective on life. I saw the balance, I saw how great it can be if, if you work really hard to achieve your goals. And then I saw also the, the human side where, I mean, life can be very difficult. And it could be a lot of times things that were outta your, outta your control and circumstances you couldn't control. And so I think it, it, it helped me develop a, a really strong empathy for people understanding everybody, everybody's different walks of life. And, you know, I think it just made me a more compassionate person, Larry, Magic Johnson so I've talked to Jason a lot about this. Like I'm a byproduct of some great mentors, Magic Johnson being one of 'em. I remember 25 years ago, he took me out to Mastros in, in LA and it was supposed to be a 30 minute meeting. We sat for like three and a half hours. And he literally gave me this playbook. And I still have notes from that. Mentors, we talked about your father and your mom, obviously that's where it starts. Any others that you've tried to resemble over the years or people that have had a big impact on you? So many, and I, I mean, I would, I would include you in that. Magic Johnson was similar to me. I met him out at the Milken Institute 14 years ago. We were on a panel together about sports. And after the panel, he spent 30 minutes with me. There's so many people around him at the Milken Institute. I mean, and he gave me his undivided attention. He told me, Larry, you know, you have an opportunity right now when you're playing, you know, to really maximize the relationships that you have. And, you know, he pretty much told me every city I would go to, I would reach out and have lunch. And I did the exact same thing. I go to Dallas and, you know, I would sit down with Mark Cuban, invite him down and try to get as many teammates I could come, you know, I go to go to New York and John Waldron from, from Goldman and Sachs would come talk to us. If I go back even further, you know, in 2007, I was in New York, just had a random New York Knicks basketball game. And I'll never forget this guy came up to me, introduced himself. He said, Hey, my name is Frank. I said, Hey, Frank, nice to meet you. He said, I've been following you for a long time. I said, that's awesome. He said, my daughter went to Syracuse while you were at Pitt, and I think you have a really bright future. I was like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm 24 years old. What does he mean? I have a, I have a bright future. Like, I'm just starting my career. I'm in my fourth year. He's like, no, I think you have a bright future after you get done playing. And I'm thinking like, I hope I play a lot longer. Like, what is he, what is he talking about? He said, I want to, I want to, I want to kind of, you know, delve deeper into this conversation with you. He gave me his business card. We ended up staying in contact. His name is Frank Bisignano, now the CEO of Fiserv's, latest largest data processing company, credit card processing company in, in the country. He was the COO at the time at JP Morgan. Right. He ended up inviting me to do an internship in New York in the middle of the football off season. And I'm thinking, man, it, it'd be a lot more fun probably to go train in LA or Miami, do something fun, right. You know? But then I started thinking like, man, this is a really unique opportunity. I've been in the classroom with, you know, Dartmouth and Harvard and Stanford and Yale and, and Ross, and you know, you name all the great schools. These kids are all there. And I've never been as intimidated as I was sitting in that classroom because I wasn't like formally trained like a lot of the kids. But, you know, after the week, I, I felt like I, I had so much more confidence in myself because like, yeah, they, they might be trained specifically to be bankers, but like, they were kind of linear in how they thought. Yeah. You know, when, when things kind of changed, you know, they didn't do a great job of adjusting to certain things. And like, I felt like that was kind of my strength. Bringing people together, collaborating, you know, helping people with their confidence. And those same things I was applying as an athlete. I could do that in the business world. And so I think it gave me like a, it gave me a real jolt of confidence that I could, I could venture off and do some other things. And that's kind of where it started. And I started doing internships every off season. You know, real estate development, you know, venture capital, private equity, mezzanine funding, philanthropy, the learning about different foundations. You know, that would've never happened if Frank never took me aside and like challenged me, you know, because nobody had ever challenged me from a business perspective. Like, you need to start thinking about this, and you need to start thinking about it right now at 24 years old. And, you know, I, I really appreciated that because like, fortunately enough, I was able to play until I was 37. But Alex, you know, how many great athletes come and they have all the promise in the world, but one bad step, you know, blow, blow a knee out, or a great pitcher that's got unbelievable command and does have Tommy Johns and never able to regain what they had in the past. So like, like time is of the essence, if you think about it, because we're on borrowed time. Like, you know, you can play 22 years if you're, if God blesses your, your life, but in reality, that's not gonna happen for most. Right? Yeah. And so I think you just have to be proactive in how you, how you approach mentorship and, you know, just be open to it. Well, one mentor who I believe you know, was local John McCain to you here and and obviously had a big impact was John McCain. You spoke at his memorial in a very moving way. I mean, tell us about him, because you know, that's not a match that, you know, necessarily people would, would necessarily come up with Arizona, obviously in common, but, but tell us about that relationship. Yeah, So I met him at a like a fundraising cocktail reception. I'm not a political person, right? You want to turn people off, you start talking about politics. Half the people, they gonna be walking out of the room in a minute. And, and so like, I met him and like, yeah, he was so kind and generous with his time when I met him the first time. And like, I knew who he was, but I didn't really know who he was. And, you know, he was like, Hey, are are you, are you busy? You know, in, in the next couple weeks I ended up having a, a coffee with him and we just started just building a relationship. And he used to always try to get me to, to get involved. And if politics, I was like, Senator, I, that's, that's not my steeze, that's not my steeze, but I, but I love getting to know you. And like his heart, man, I remember coming back from DC one time and he used to fly commercial. Like he wasn't flying back and forth on private jets. And every single person that walked up to him, like he made time for that person, shook their hands, looked them in the eyes, asked 'em how they're doing. Are you happy with your job? Is there anything I can, I can help you with? Literally, I mean, it took us an hour to get from the gate to the baggage claim. And that was because every single person he made time for. And I was like, man, I'm 27 years old. I'm multiple all pros. Like, I need to start thinking the way he, the way he does. And, you know, then you look at some of the things he did while he was running for president and how, how genuinely thoughtful he was. You know, I just really admired the way he went about his business and how authentic and intentional he was about his relationships. And so when you sort of weave all this together, all these experiences and, and I'm so fascinated by that Frank Bisignano story and sort of how that sets you on on your path. What does that sort of either unlock for you or how does it help you kind of create your, for lack of better term sort of business mindset? Yeah. So my, my business mindset, I wouldn't say it as like a, like, this is, this is what I'm gonna focus on, right? And there's things that I, I do, I spend more time on and, you know, hopefully as, as I go further on into my business career that I'll be able to focus even more on some of the things that I'm like really, really passionate, like, you know, angel investing and venture capital, which I really feel like I can make a, a sizable impact with the relationships and the people skills that are required to, to build a company at scale. But like, I, I love multifamily, you know, similar to, to Alex, I really enjoy the restaurant space, which I've gotten involved in. You know, I enjoy sports and sports tech, you know, there's a lot of different buckets of things I really enjoy that I feel like I can bring, I can bring Yeah. Value to, and, you know, as an investor, I, I think the biggest thing you can do besides writing a check into something is to actually bring tangible qualities that actually help people around you and your business grow. And what do you like similar to what Alex is doing in, in Minnesota, you know? Right. Like those young Karl-Anthony Towns and, and Anthony Edwards and some of these young guys, like, they have somebody they can just pick up the phone and call, Hey Alex, I'm, I'm dealing with this off the field. Like, what would you do with this? Like, there's not many owners or, or, or governors, excuse me, in, in professional sports that have his type of experience. And so like, like that's something that he's involved in. He wrote a check to be involved in, but he can actually bring, you know, great mentorship to young people who need it. Yeah. They're hitting you up. They should, they should. They're they great. They Should. Yeah, they Should. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, did you do that as a player? I mean, were, were you always, you know, you had that, that sort of relationship here? Yeah, Michael Bidwell was very good to me. Robert Sarver very good to me. Jerry Colangelo, right. Former owner of the Phoenix Suns and the Diamondbacks. Very good to me. And I would always try to find those, those guys and be able to talk to 'em and help understand like what they saw in sports and, you know, where they see sports going in the future and things that they would do differently if they could, you know, turn back the clock. I, I think sports is really unique. There's not many businesses where, you know, you go, you know, to New York and, you know, it'll be, it'll be very difficult for, you know, you know, a financial advisor on, on the, on the fifth floor to go upstairs and talk to Jamie Dimon, right. And have a conversation with 'em. Like, I just, it would be difficult, you know, like, but you can do that in sports. You can go talk to, you know, Marc Lasry, you can go talk to, you know, Mark Cuban, you know, some of the most successful business people in the world. You have direct access to 'em. And so why you would not utilize those opportunities makes no sense to me. Larry, another thing we have in common is the NBA, but it's ironic, right? 'cause we've been talking about Magic, both of our mentor. Yeah. And he played basketball and owns the Dodgers, right? Yeah. You played football and you were part of the Suns. And same with baseball and Timberwolves and Lynx. When an opportunity like that comes how does it come, how does that meeting and like, how do you think about the process of like, I gotta write a big check and you only have so much capital. Yep. How, walk us through that process. How do you think about it? Yeah, so I mean, I never really like set out to, like being, being in the NBA, that's not nothing I was ever like really thinking about, but I just built a relationship over 10 years, you know, with the majority owner. And, you know, one day we were, we were sitting at dinner and he was just like, Hey, Larry, I would love to have you a part of my group. You know, you're, you're really thoughtful, you're insightful. I mean, you have great recommendations and this and that. And I was like, wow, that's, that's interesting. And then he said, you know, this is, this is what is going. And I, I said, I kind of gulped up my water. I'm, I'm gonna have to get back to you on That, you know? But, you know, it's a decision that I really am, am thankful that I made because like, I would say as a minority owner, like I was able to get kind of behind the curtains, you know, I was a part of the draft process, you know, I, I understood he opened up the books for me. This is, this is what we spend money on, this is what we try to cut costs on. This is, you know, like every aspect of the business. Like he was very open to, you know, letting me learn and, and see it and, you know, helped me and make a more informed decision on, you know, the Rajashan Royals opportunity, you know, in India, in the Premier League in cricket. It, it helped me make a better decision in, in pickleball, right? It helped me make, you know, better decisions and all of those type of opportunities that presented themselves to me a after that pickleball. Fascinating. You know, you are a, a player, an owner Cricket and, and an investor. Cricket you mentioned as well it, let's talk about cricket for a second. Like, how does that come to you and, and what's the process? I have a friend here, Kal Somani here locally, big angel investor run, founded three companies that do, you know, critical infrastructure work. And he's from India. And, you know, he was like, Larry, there's an opportunity that, you know, I really would like for you to look at. And, and so I was, I was like, cool, because let's look at it. I didn't really understand cricket. Yeah, I've been to cricket matches before in India. Still never really could understand it. But I, what I did recognize when I went was the fandom. And you think about teams here in the United States that are in very small markets, you think about, you know, the Oakland A's, you think about the Green Bay Packers, you think about the Buffalo Bills still great organizations that are thriving in really small markets. And you think about that concept in India at scale, you know, this, this league could easily be 40 teams, right? And it, it, it would not saturate the market. So just thinking about the exponential growth, who's watching it, how much is followed? We're all, you know, big components and why I wanted to be involved. Is There one or two in particular that you're really excited about that you, you feel more connected? One of these companies you've invested in? Yes. A a bunch of 'em. Yeah. Yeah, a bunch of them. But if I had to pick one and it's a passion for me, like chess.com, it's unbelievable how fast the game has grown. And, and it was very organic, how I kind of got involved in the game. Yeah. I started playing when I was seven years old and, you know, I went to the doctor, they said I had ADHD and before, you know, my parents allowed the doctors to put me on any medication. They said, let's look at some other pathways so we can, we can explore. And you know, one of my after school counselors said, Hey, look, chess is a great game to help slow us slow his thought, press down and start helping him be more of a strategic thinker. You know, kind of help him, you know, really kind of like, just be thoughtful in how he makes decisions. And I was like, chess, why? How's that gonna help me? But I started playing, I fell in love with this, started competing at a higher level. I started getting into some of these city chess tournaments and like, I was, I was hooked. And you know, I, I still play. I play with all my kids all the time. Yeah. We had a big game last night where I play 'em, you know, they all have a chessboard and I'll play. It's one of 'em. And, you know, so I really enjoy what the game has done, you know, it slows people down. Right. The other thing I, I love about it, it's, it's one of the few games that you sit across from somebody. You guys are playing a game, but you can have conversations, right? I can talk to you about, you know, how's work, how's life, how's your family, how's your kids, how's business? And we still can play this game and focus in what we need to make our move. But it's like, like true old school throwback, like, get to know somebody. So Larry, how does this passion kind of bridge into an opportunity to invest in a company like this? So it was a passion. Initially I was playing out in Long Island with a friend of mine and, and one of his friends came by and we were playing Bliss Chess. And he was like, Larry, I gotta introduce you to a friend of mine. His name's Danny Rensch. He's, he's one of the co-founders of chess.com. And, you know, I was like, cool, you know, and like everybody else during the pandemic, you know, everybody's watching all these series around the globe and, and Queens Gambit, you know, was one that I, that I was like infatuated with, right? Yeah. And so I, I saw that there was really great opportunities and, and I really liked the fact that it's an international game. I look at games that are scalable, that people will enjoy and that they will pay, they will pay a premium for. It is this amazing collision of both technology Bucketing because I mean, you go on the app and you know, and I know lots of people from CEOs to, you know, reporter colleagues who they'll go on and play these three minute games like every day. Yeah. You know, they'll be, you know, on hold for something and they'll like pop, pop into a game. And yet it also is this very thoughtful, almost analog type of game in a digital world. Yeah. So with all the things that come across your desk, you know, you talked about sort of bucketing things as I know Alex does too. Are there any that got away? Things you wish you had done? Yeah, there's, there's, there's opportunities that I, that I decided not to go against. But I, when I'm doing my diligence process on deals, like I'm, me and my team were pretty convicted on the, on why we do it. And sometimes there's, there's good deals that you pass on 'cause they just don't fit right at that particular time. Right. Not that they're a bad deal, but they just do, do I have the wherewithal, do I have the time to really do it at the level that I want to do it? And not every deal is for everyone. Right. You know, I think people get FOMO a lot and make decisions like, this is hot and we need, we need to do this and like that. That's not for me right now. Right. And so I think we're really good at that as a team, as we evaluate opportunities as they present themselves. And know, we, we both come from teams, you know, baseball, football teams and like Alex, how often did you ever, when you went to the, when you went to the clubhouse, when you were getting ready for the game, ever worry about your, your cleats being in your locker or the right bats being, you know, ready for you or your glove being oiled up the way you, you needed to, to make, you know, throw guys out at third base or, or any of those type of things when you performed. Like you never thought about those? Never. Not once. And they were just taken care of because, you know, the clubby were doing this and never worried about the spread after the game. If you were going to eat, 'cause you knew the meals were gonna be there, you never worried about the buses would be on time to take you from the hotel. And like, it was, it was a coordination of a lot of things. And I think when you leave the game as an athlete, you forget how much teamwork was required to allow you to be great at what you did. You know, you just think, you know, I ran the route, quarterback threw me the ball. Yeah. That, that's one thing. But you know, the coach had to design the plays for you. You know, that field had to be manicured perfectly for you. Somebody had to make sure, you know, your pads were, were were taped down so guys couldn't hold you and grab you throughout the game. You know, like all of these things that you, you never think about, you know, the trainers that get you get your hamstrings loose and get you ready to perform every day. And, you know, I, I didn't really appreciate that when I first walked away. And, you know, I, I struggled a bit kind of finding, you know, my, my groove initially. So Larry, I can relate with that. 'cause post retirement, the first three years I really struggled trying Leaving CEO to find my way and I gained a bunch of weight. I wasn't feeling as good. I've been doing one thing for 25 years professionally. And then you're just like, it's like those CEOs that retire from like Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan. Once you leave that, you know, you don't have that that card anymore. You feel like a little bit of an on an island by yourself. I certainly did. And then I made a really big paradigm shift after Covid with my schedule. How does your day look like today, obviously versus how it used to be for so many years. And so when I, when I first got, I would say the first year, it wasn't a lack of opportunities. It was, it was definitely a lack of structure. You know, I was, you know, accustomed to, you know, very similar to you. I was accustomed to a to be a very structured schedule. And I wouldn't say I love structure, but I thrive with it. Hmm. You know, and so like, not waking up in the morning and, and kind of like, Hey, what am I gonna do today? Am I going to, you know, I know I gotta pick up the kids from school at three, but am I gonna play golf or am I, I was a, a ship in the ocean with no destination. And like that was a very lonely feeling. And so like I needed to get the structure. And once I got the structure, I feel like I developed a purpose. And then once I got the purpose, I feel like I, I was able to find the things and outlets that really like suited me and I wanted to be a part of, you know, you talk about being a CEO, like they have a natural off ramp though, you know, because you leave CEO now you're the chairman, so you're still working those business mindset and thought and processes. As an athlete, there is no off ramp. You know, there's a, there's the 1% that gets in the TV that can do it, that has that ability, but that's for very far and few between. Yeah. Hall of fame, quality caliber player that has that opportunity and everybody else kind of has to figure it out. And so like, it, it, I, I see that a lot and I try to help a lot of guys when they, when they do make that transition, like, this is what you need to be thinking, this is what you need to do. Like, and so in trying to just kind of give 'em the, the blueprint, as Alex would say. And so how does it go forward? I mean, you're a young guy at, at this point, Team Ownership you've been able to have a number of different experiences from Wall Street, you know, internships and team ownership. Like, is there something that's on the horizon for you? You know, do you wanna go back to team ownership? Is there a big thing out there that, that you're chasing? Or is it one step at a time? I literally take it one day at a time. My accounting team always like, look, Larry, we got, we got 191 K ones last year. Like, we, like, this is a lot to manage. You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, I got, I got, I, I get, I get, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. You know, but like, I, I really do. It gets me so excited when new opportunities come along, you know, and it goes back to like my first venture deal, you know, in 2013 I was taking executive business courses at Stanford and like, like, like I always am, I had like a two hour window and I started walking around campus. I just wanted to, I went to the student union. I saw some kids over there just, they were like working on something together. I was like, what y'all doing over here, man, my name is Larry. They didn't know who I was, they didn't care who I was. And I was like, what are you guys working on? They were telling me what they were working on. It's like, so like, do you guys have a space that he said, oh yeah, this is the Stanford Incubation Lab. You know, former students that are now on Sandhill Road, they're, they're at Bessemer and, and Andreessen Horowitz and you know, you, you name it. They come back in and they help the students and you know, if the idea is good enough, they invested. And I was like, wow, that, that's really cool. Then I met a, a former student athlete. He was a kicker named Derek Belch. And he had a company called Strivr. It was a VR company. And, you know, his original thought process for it was to be able to help athletes kind of learn outside of what the traditional learning was. And you just watch tape from a really far distance in practice. Right? Right. But you can't really see the angles, you know, and so these, this, they set up cameras around you to watch you run a route. So I can see, hey, you Larry, you're dropping your at, at the waist too much. You know, you need to drop your hips as opposed to dropping your waist. And you can actually see it, you know, from a 360 degree angle as you watch it. And so, like, it really helps you with the nuances of, of route running and where your hands are. I saw your eyes, the ball was coming and your eyes were already looking away. Like, that's gonna come back to bite you. Like let's focus on that. You can focus on like the, the minuscule details. Yeah. And like, I really liked that application and then I, you know, made introductions to him and I saw the business start growing. He got a relationship with the Big 10 and got one with the PAC 12 and multiple NFL teams, you know, used it. And so like I saw that my ability was not only just to like see a really interesting cool deal, but I could add value to the founder. Right. Right. And like, that's when I really started saying like, man, this is something I really enjoy. Like, you get a a snapshot at something in its infancy state and you get a, you get a chance to kind of like help it scale. Right. You know, and so, like, I, that's it got me really got me really geeked. Board Meetings You mentioned this sort of in passing, but I want to dig on it a little bit. You're on some boards. What's the perspective that you bring? Like what, tell us about the, like how those board meetings go for you and what are they looking to you for? What are you contributing in, in your mind? Yeah, so I mean, when, when I first was asked to join the, the board of Dick's, you know, Ed came to me and he said, look, Larry, I'm, I'm not looking for another retail person, I'm not looking for a banker. I know that's not what your expertise is, but we don't have anybody who's coming from your perspective. So I just want you to be authentic. I want you to learn like what I've done, you know, study, you know, the, you know, go on diligence, take some classes to familiarize your board governance and like you're gonna get better and the other things. But I need you and your insight as a, as a former athlete to gimme that insight. And so, like, he, he's not that they don't ask you to do things that you're not capable of doing. Sure. At the time, I'm not saying you can't grow into 'em, but it, it really just takes somebody like giving you a chance, you know, to be in a space that you maybe thought that you would never be able to be in. And now I sit in the room and I'm, and I'm a lot more comfortable. I have a lot more insightful thoughts because I understand the business now after three and a half, four years. First Board Meetings Yeah. It's funny. Now I'm picturing like how you described yourself as a, as a kid, you know, raising your hand and being like, well, hold on a second. Yeah. What About this? I, I'll tell you the first, the first couple board meetings, I, I remember getting off and thinking, what are you doing? Like what, why are you, why are you doing this? And it was during To yourself, you're thinking that to Yourself. Yeah. Because it was during Covid and any, you've sitting in board meetings before. Yeah. Watching the board, doing a board meeting on a Zoom is very different from me sitting next to a board member and saying, Hey Manny, you know, he's been a CEO of a retail business for 25 years. I can look at him and ask him, I didn't really understand that. Can you, can you help me? Can you help me understand why we, why we're doing a convertible note? Why, why are we, why are we, why do we need to draw down our line of credit? I don't, I don't understand that. And he can literally tell me right there in a Zoom meeting, right. I can't ask these questions 'cause I would be disruptive to the meeting. And so like, I needed to be in a, in a more intimate setting in a board room where I could do those and have the side conversations after our committee meetings. And so, like, once I started doing that, I felt like I was interesting. I was actually, you know, gaining process, but the first couple I was like, whoa. Yeah. You know, you're sitting around listening to conversation to people who have been doing this for 30, 40 years and, you know, you're stepping into that arena. I sort of wanna, as, as we start to wrap up, you know, Staying in Arizona come back to, to the Arizona of it all because you make this very conscious decision that, that this is your place. I'm sure you had chances to go elsewhere, and yet you stayed here very successfully, obviously. But what was that thought process? You talk about a 40 year plan, but it's one thing to make a plan and it's another thing to execute it and to really stick and to, and to stay here. Yeah. Why? Well, you know, for you to stay at a place for a long time, there, there has to be a joint effort. Like the player has to wanna stay ownership and coaches have to want you, you know, and there's times where they felt like they could have got, you know, value outta moving me, but they decided not to. And there was times that I was up for contract and I could have left, but I didn't want to. And I think after a while, you know, the organization and the player, you, you start to understand like, this is, this is a marriage that we wanna make last. When we were in lockstep at that point, you know, it became a relationship that that wasn't just transactional. And in sports, most relationships are transactional. You look at the wins every day and you look at the losses and if the, the, the losses start adding up, then they make a move. And I, I think we were able to move past that. We were able to look at like, what do you want the face of your franchise to look like now? Do you want it to be a consistent presence in the community as a person that plays every game that shows up, gives great effort, is is a good teammate that you can build around that's not a selfish person. You know, like, like that's one of the reasons that we were able to have like a really good, good 17 year run. The NBA I mean, you've seen that obviously in, in organizations and players, you know, gelling with the, the organization. You know, we, I I dare say we don't see it as much anymore. And I mean, certainly you see it from the NBA perspective where the movement is is is unbelievable. I mean, I feel like your case is increasingly rare. Yeah. Does it feel like that to you Guys? Yeah, for sure. For sure. But I think as a player, I think it's, it's changed a lot, especially in the NBA. You know, guys will come in one day and like, I'm not happy and, and I wanna move. And, and you have to do it because like if a guy has another year on his deal and he's, and you know, he's not gonna resign you, you have to be able to get the value right. Like you, you have to, as a business, you have to do that. And I think you see that a lot more frequently in basketball than you do, you know, in, in football and, and in baseball. The players have a lot of power. And you know, I think it's also a big way how, you know, the leagues differ. You know, you think about the NBA, the NBA market's, the player first, then the league, and then the teams, right? And the NFL, it's the league, it's the team, it's the player. And so like the league is always going do what's best to protect the shield. And then the teams have the, the brand loyalty amongst the community and the players are kind of interchangeable, right. You know, if you have a top 10 player in the NBA, that player can kind of determine everything, pretty much whatever I, I'll play tonight or I'm not gonna play tonight. You know, I will play with this guy. You know, like even if you trade another one of his teammates, like, I don't wanna play with him. You can't make the move because they're not gonna gel. So just to give you the whole scope of yourself, NFL Hall of Fame you are a Minnesota Vikings Ball boy, then you're gonna be in the college Football Hall of Fame as of this year, you are undoubtedly gonna be at first ballot NFL Hall of Famer. Did you imagine that was gonna happen? I wouldn't say I imagined it. It was always a hope and a dream. You know, I didn't, I didn't start off thinking I wanted to be a hall of famer. I just, I want to, I want to be able to have the opportunity to play. And I think, you know, as your ability grows and your opportunities grow, I think your, your vision and your aspirations start to grow as well. And I think that kind of, they went in sequence, You've sort of downplayed the Hall of Fame, it feels like over time. I mean, Is that just who you are? None of us in my control. Yeah. Like it's, it's so subjective. You know, you look out and you know, there's guys that you say like, they put together a Hall of Fame career and, and they, and they should be in and, and they're not. And then there's guys who've, you know, are shoe-ins. Like, but it's, it's media members that essentially Are determining, you know, what they think of your career. And I, as a society, I think we've really kind of like gone away from like, the consistency is not something that people value anymore. You know, it's just a okay. He's a money manager and he did 60% last year. Oh, that's, that's great. But we're in the bull market. Like I would expect him to have success. Like the guy that does, you know, loses 2% in a in a bear market is a guy that you like that that's the guy I want managing my money. Yeah. You know, and so like, you know, you think about guys like Warren Buffett, who's a friend of Alex's as well. I mean, I mean, he's just been consistent for 60 years and like people don't, people don't value that as much. Yeah. I mean it's interesting to, to think about, Foundation especially where you are now, where you were as, as an athlete, you know, obviously you were in that milieu with, with your father and then, you know, philanthropically your foundation has done a tremendous amount. And, and interestingly I think in a very focused way, I mean, you were, you really locked in on cancer research and, and other elements. I mean, clearly there's a straight line from from your mom there, Right? Yeah. Very, very straight line. And also like, as I've gotten older, I, I feel like I, I've, I've gotten better at kind of like being an inch wide and a mile deep with the foundation. I think it's really easy to kind of get sidetracked. 'cause there's a lot of unbelievable foundations doing great work in our world, right? And there's a lot of people that need help. But in reality, you can't, you can't be the, you can't be everything for everyone. Right? And so I feel like if I, if I really narrowed down in an education and afterschool activities and programs and bridging the technology gap in underserved communities and schools, I feel like I can make a tangible difference in that area. Right? And if I do the same thing in breast cancer, you know, with our mobile mammograms and taking them in communities where historically there has not been great dialogue and communications with healthcare, you know, being able to, to bridge that gap to help them understand like, these health professionals are here to help you. Let's get you in for these mammograms. You don't have to come in, we'll come to you. You know? And so like doing those individual things I think has helped me, you know, realize that you just need to, to focus in on the things that you're really good. And not saying that they're not others Sure. Causes that are important, but for you to be most effective and also be able to galvanize your donor base. Like when you show your progress and your impact reports. Like, these are the things that we did in the month of January. These, this was what we had hoped to do, we achieved that. And this is why we think, you know, we, we will be a great candidate for another grant this year. You know, it's like we need to show tangible impact results. Yeah. All right. Well here's your final question. This has been so much fun. So Larry, you're one Advice of the most iconic players of your generation. What advice would you give to someone who wants to excel at life the way you've been able to? Very easy. I'll say follow Alex Rodriguez. I mean, you, you've done an amazing job of obviously having one of the best careers of all time. But, you know, being thoughtful in how you, you help people, the advice you always make time. You know, I text you, call you, you call me back, email. Like you're, you're, you're very kind in, in how you go about your, your way approachable. And, and it's constant student of life. You know, you, you want to get better and improve. And I think if you take a lot of what Alex has done in terms of his mindset, I think you'll have a lot of success during your career. And also post- career. Well, I think a lot of people would say the same thing about you. I think that's fair to Oh, oh yeah. That's fair to say. We really enjoyed this. Thank you for doing it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Yes, sir. Always, always.