Governor Chris Sununu Says Everyone in Washington Should Be Fired | Working Capital

Congress and Senate, what do they do? They effectively do two things. They approve or disapprove of a policy and they approve or disapprove of funding. Right. But that's it. And at the end of the day, when people talk about good government, bad government, that's all based on connectivity and outcomes. Washington has none of that. Governors, Republican and Democrat- People don't have any power there, right? I mean... They have power, they're just too cowardly to use it. So why walk away? What do you mean? You're walking away- Why? Why? Yeah. Because I think most people in New Hampshire understand it's a public service, not a public career. I'm talking to everybody in Washington DC, I think they should all be fired. New Hampshire's Republican governor, Chris Sununu, gives off the vibe of someone who's on his fourth coffee at 7:00 AM no matter what time of day you happen to be talking to him. The son of a former White House Chief of Staff and the younger brother of a US Senator, Sununu is only the second governor in the state's history to be elected to a fourth term and did it in a state that Trump lost both in 2016 and 2020. But the granite state Governor has come under harsh criticism for contradicting his earlier statement that if Trump were convicted in one of his four prosecutions, he should drop out of the presidential race. So I spent the day with Sununu, and even braved the great outdoors to talk about what he says is his passion for democracy and local politics. If you're questioning that, you're telling me you don't understand why 51% of America wants Biden out of there. No, I don't think that that's the case at all. And why he's standing behind Trump in spite of, well, everything. Can you talk to me about the room we're in right now? Yeah, so this room is pretty interesting in that, so this is what we call the executive council chambers. So the executive council is from 1680. King George the first put it in place 'cause he didn't want any, at the time, they're called presidents of the colonies, not governors. He didn't want any president to have too much power. One of the most amazing moments I had here, we were debating the Planned Parenthood contract, right? And it's open to public. So this room was packed. And at one point I'm sitting there and I'm watching this really intense debate go back and forth about whether we should, you know, fund these contracts or not. But the fact that in a state like New Hampshire, you can have that debate, you can have that discussion, with both sides standing literally shoulder to shoulder with the governor over such a heated issue. And one side won the contract, one side lost what they wanted. But everyone walked away peacefully and quietly and you know, winners and losers and you come back and you fight another day if you didn't get what you wanted. No other place in America does that happen. That was 'cause of New Hampshire. So our system is so fundamentally different where we really encourage everybody to get involved. We really believe in that transparency, which instills public trust. As a Republican governor in a purple state, Sununu has never been shy about his ambivalence about Trump, or really shy about anything. But it's clear he spent a lot of time thinking about what's behind the enduring appeal of the twice impeached former president. There was like a period of time where people are talking about maybe it's a return to governors, right? It's a return to that type of leadership and then instead it was actually an era of people, someone with no experience, right? Who became the next leader of the Republican party. Right? Well no, I totally challenge that. What is a governor? Governor's the CEO of the state. That's what they hired in Trump. Trump was a CEO, an executive, a deal maker. That's exactly- Oh, come on. Really? Yeah. He didn't have the experience to do it in the public sphere. Yeah, but you think Trump has the, is more of the legislative side, we're going to new get nuanced over a law in policy? No, certainly not what I'm saying at all. No, no. But that type of, I'm not, again, he has so many failings in not having public experience, not having an understanding of a legislature, only being kind of the executive of one. But that is fundamentally what people were going for. Someone who, you know a buck stops here, senior executive. That's interesting. Where senators don't have that mentality. Congressmen don't have that mentality. Look, Trump didn't get elected 'cause he ran a good campaign in 2016. Trump got elected because he had built up himself in the American psyche for 40 years. This guy was a household name in 1980, for better or for worse. So he was a brand. So, what do you think comes next for the Republican party? Well, I will say this, I'm very optimistic on the Republican party. I think the Democrat party has long-term issues way beyond the Republican party. Because, you just said it yourself, the Republican Party's problem is defined by one guy. Everything you hear- He's kinda have a symptom of a problem, probably, right? No, no, it really all comes down to him. You're always gonna have extremists in both parties. The liberals have their AOCs, we're gonna have our extremists on our side, we always have. The Matt Gaetz and the Marjorie Taylor Green, they're just gonna, you know, do what they do to raise money. But they're not leaders. Neither of those are leaders, right? Trump, in terms of a leadership perspective, in terms of the problem with the Republican party, you can say, is defined by him. Over on the other side you have the extremism and the ultra-progressivism that has really permeated itself through the Democrat party. That doesn't go away when Biden goes away. They have a long term problem on that side. When Trump goes away, and at some point he will, Trump will effectively be the standard bearer of the party for long term into the future. As long as he's around. As long as he wants to be, he's going to be. And that's, I don't agree with it, I don't like it. But that's just the reality of our party. But when Trump isn't here anymore, there's no Trump part two coming in. There's no Trump light coming in. He had executive level leadership for years in the private sector. While the governor's optimism about the Republican party seems to hinge on the fact that, well, Trump has to go away eventually, he also suggests that it's irrelevant, because what matters most in American's lives doesn't happen in Washington. Look, the presidency and Congress have actually very, have much less impact on a family's life in what's going on with their day-to-day living situation. You know, who has the most impact? A school board. A school board is gonna really dictate where your education of your kids is going, what's happening in that classroom for most of your children's day, and as a parent, that's what you care about. The town selectmen or the zoning board has more an impact on what's gonna go on in your town, how your local taxes are gonna be spent, what potholes are filled, and whether the waste treatment plant, you know, gets fixed. And here in New Hampshire, we're really locally controlled. We have a fundamentally different process than everybody else. Local control is very important to us. We adhere to that, and that gets people more empowered. It isn't a singular, one size fits all. You know, big government system at the top. "Live free or die" is not four cool words on our license plate, "live for or die" is really whether, regardless of your party, inherent in our DNA here in New Hampshire. It's about the individual. It's about that economic freedom, those personal freedoms. Government is there to provide good programs and safety nets for you know, people, or situations and hard times and provide doors of opportunity. But it's not just there to pile rules and regulations and control things. And with suspiciously perfect timing, a class of visiting fourth graders entered who helped me get the hard truth out of their governor. Is it stressful being a governor? How old is that? How come that clock doesn't work? No, it does. Usually it's wrong. I think the term we use is, "it's wicked old." Have you ever slept inside your office? That's a great question. And the answer is yes, I have. So you remember that whole Covid thing? Yeah. That's stunk, right? So working office, right? I know some governors have like, ceremonial offices. Doesn't look like a working office. No? Well, I cleaned it. I cleaned it up. I wasn't, I'm not crazy. No, it's some governors have like, ceremonial offices and stuff like that. I kind of keep mine. We just have a working office. We have one of, if not the smallest gubernatorial staffs in the country. Really tight, we're very tight team. I would say, maybe just under 20. So your project as you see it, tell me if I'm correct, is really just about administration. It's not a high-minded ideological, philosophical thing. I have a lot of philosophical passions. Those kind of provide a framework of, I think what you're getting at, which is good management, good system design, good customer service. You can't run the government like a business. You shouldn't run the government like a business. When I ran my own business, if I wanted to make an investment, I could write a check, talk to the board of directors, write a check, you know, or or whatever it might be. And that's it, we did it. But, this is now public money, in a public sphere, for a public good, on a much bigger population base. And so, you need checks and balances. Checks and balances is a good thing, right? If, my idea isn't so good that other folks are gonna say, no, we're not doing it that way, then maybe I gotta go back and revise my idea. I shouldn't just try to push my way through every single time. So I think on the philosophical side, I think it's safe to say, you know, the liberal democrat mindset, I'm not saying it's wrong, but I passionately disagree with government is here to solve your problems. No, it's not. Government is not here to solve your problems. What I was talking to those kids about out there, was- They had good questions. They do. They're very informed, right? Even our fourth, I would garner, my fourth graders are more politically astute than most anybody else, any adults in the country. I like the "Do you sleep in your office?" thing. That was good. I have had to take a nap or two on that couch. But my philosophy is, it really is kind of, again, you can't run the government like a business, but there's certain philosophies of government, good fiscal management, good customer service, knowing what the citizens want and not just doing what I think is best. And I'm going to manage in that style. Next on the agenda, a hike at one of Sununu's go-to trails on Mount Major. A hike that he described as easy, though not for this reporter, and you know, a full camera crew. Are you guys gonna be okay getting up this? I figured some physical activity might bring the governor's energy level down a little, but he seemed truly inexhaustible. What's that? I can't hear you, sorry. So, you hiked the Appalachian Trail, right? I did, yeah. So, at MIT, one of my professors was one of the first guys that had hiked the Appalachian Trail back in the early seventies. And me and my buddy kind of got captivated by the idea and we kind of committed to it and planned for about a year, in our last year in college, then when we graduated, we went for it. And it really sets priorities, right? Every day you're like, okay, where am I getting my next drink of water? Just puts a little appreciation into some of the things we take for granted, I suppose. Was there anything that you learned these last, was it seven and a half, eight years, that surprised you? Well, I think politically everything changed drastically between 2008 and 2016. Social media, how people consume information, all of that. From 2016, to the last eight years, to today, it's no longer how they consume information, but how the average person is using information in that consumption. In other words, the extreme polarization, the misinformation that's out there, it's a complete mess. And I think if you asked the average person, we've gone from, boy, I read this on the internet, to, you know, the average person trusting anything they read on the internet. Then you add mainstream media, I think, catering into a little bit of that. You mean in terms of like ginning up outrage, or? I wouldn't say ginning up outrage, Being partisan. but being partisan, yeah, I don't think there's many in media that say, I'm gonna do this report and that's gonna really gin up outrage. Right. But they say, I'm gonna do this report and it's gonna be extremely partisan and I don't care, 'cause that's what my viewers wanna see. I guess if there's anything I've been trying to do, in terms of media, is get media off the judgment pedestals a little bit. And I'm just trying to tell people, you can judge me all you want. I got thick skin, I could care less what you think of me. But understand that I'm probably mimicking a message that's pretty consistent and constant in the average American public. So if you're casting judgment on me, showing disdain, or you're upset with a position I'm taking, what you're probably saying is you're really upset with half of America that probably has a similar type position. What's the status of your presidential admission? I mean, I really explored it. I really came to the conclusion, especially as governor of New Hampshire, the best thing I could do was be a great host. Ensure all the candidates had the best opportunity, show the best of themselves, retail politics. And we did that, and it worked really well I think. I think if I had gotten in the race- Well how well did it work? You got Trump, you endorsed Haley. I mean I was here all winter. I could not turn on the TV without seeing you yapping about Nikki Haley. We're all in on Nikki Haley. She's gonna win in a landslide, and that's not an exaggeration. She has the international experience, she has this experiences getting stuff done as a governor. Obviously I'm 110% behind Nikki, she's the one that's earning it on the ground. Nikki Haley, who's smart, who's charismatic, who's likable. So, this is how well it worked. I mean, again, I, at the end of the day, yeah, Trump won, we lost, I get it. But my mission was to make sure Trump just didn't stamp over every single candidate. That we got it down to a real choice for the Republican voters, not just in New Hampshire, but across, all the way up to Super Tuesday. That was the mission. And we did. You know, one of my frustrations, if anything, was that I wish more people were out fighting for Nikki. I wish there were more surrogates out there. Trump had his band of, you know, zealots. But a lot of folks who would've loved to see Nikki Haley win, sat in the background, fearful, afraid. And behind the scenes it was, "Man, what you're doing with Nikki is great. Keep going, give us a choice, all that." But out front, they would say very little. So, I believe in politics, you have to be a little bit fearless. And I believe very strongly in what I was doing. I believed in Nikki, and once I endorsed, we just cleared everybody else outta the race. So we got it down to a one-on-one choice even before the New Hampshire primary, which is amazing. But the Republican party has gone back to Trump. 'Cause the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So by that I mean, the average Republican might see the liberal media as the enemy. They might see the liberal elitist in DC as the enemy, liberal establishment as the enemy. So people said, well I don't like the guy, but if that's the guy that they're going after, well I guess we're sticking with him. And that's it. It was more of that than anything else. It's humid. It is humid, yeah. It's not the humidity, the flies are a little... I think that's related. Black flies, May flies. Yeah. So, you're talking about why the Republican electorate went back to Trump. Why did you go back to Trump? Because he's 51-49, you know? I don't like a lot of the aspects that he brings. I don't take back a single thing I've ever said about the guy, positive or negative. I call the balls and strikes like I see him. But I would much rather take a Republican administration than this woke stand on the shoulders of people that built this country and tell 'em how to live their lives liberal mentality. Their families stood up, picked up arms, instead of post defended this country, and these liberal elites are trying to stand on their shoulders, tell 'em what words to use, how to live their lives, what cancel culture's gonna be about. That's the DNA of the problem within the Democrat party. Biden should be winning this thing 70-30, but he's that bad of a president, he's losing to Trump. So people can say, gee, governor, you worked really hard against him, against the primary. Yeah, sure. A lot of people did. I'm curious, like, so- Why are you with him now? Well, most of America's with him. So if you're questioning that, you're telling me you don't understand why 51% of America wants Biden out of there. No, I don't think that that's the case at all. I mean, I think that you can view what happened on January 6th as completely disqualifying, and you can view someone being a criminal defendant, maybe going to jail as disqualifying. So, I'll put it this way. Some people have said, I can't believe what happened on January 6th and you could still support him. I don't view it as disqualifying. I hate it, but it's not disqualifying for me. Why? 'Cause it's just not. Why? Because he didn't storm the... I'm not gonna defend Trump in it. He incited it. There's no doubt about it. But that's not disqualifying for me. The problem I have is that people want to judge me for that. I'm not judging you 'cause it's a disqualifying category for you, or- I didn't say- Not for you, for whoever. I want to understand why it's not disqualifying for you, specifically. Because I'm, as a governor, you have to be about results. You're not gonna be a governor anymore. No, no, I know, but I understand leadership is about getting results. Inflation is an absolute disaster. Biden is telling people with record credit card debt, it's not so bad, suck it up. It's wrong. The border was an absolute crisis for years. So, those pressures are really what are keeping people up at night. Is anybody being kept awake at night because of what's happening with the Trump trial? But the average voter, what I'm trying to do is get people, and especially in the media, to understand where the average voter is and why. And I'm just trying to emphasize to folks, just 'cause your vote... Those people aren't crazy. They're not extremists. But they have a point, and they have a voice, and it's not being heard or respected. As we reached the top of Mount Major and a significant portion of the small state came into view, I was doing my best not to swallow any more bugs while the governor took a broader perspective on his legacy and what he sees on the horizon for his party. Look at that. Come on. It's nice, it's nice. You gotta have a payoff. So what are we looking at from this vantage point? So we're kind of looking west, that's Wolfeboro across the lake. Governor's Island is over here. What happens on Governors Island? A lot of rich people live on Governor's Island. The governor cannot afford to live on Governor's Island, I'll tell you that. Yeah, what is the salary for a governor here? What's my salary? Yeah, It's like $140,000. Something like that, about. Full-time job? Well, it's a full-time job. Yeah. But I'm effectively running a $7, $8 billion nonprofit for $140,000 a year, think of it like that. Is that how you think of it? Yeah, it's a giant nonprofit with all these different pieces and all these different needs and services that have to be met. Yeah, I kind of think of it that way. Sure. You know, but it needs good management, and good fiscal management, but most importantly, I consider people are effectively donating their money, you know, in through taxes, and so I better treat it really, really respectfully. Did you like doing it? I love the job. I have to love it. It's incredibly difficult. It's full of stresses. Not just the job stresses, but then the political stresses, and you have to run every once in a while. And unlike Congress, they get time off to run, right? Governors, you're 24/7. I still have a job to do as governor the day before the election. I don't not go into the office, you know? So a lot of stresses, but more than any other job politically, it's incredibly fulfilling. You can really impact people's lives. You can really make a change. You can really make a difference. So like, with Trump's like, takeover of the party, right? It's pretty thorough. He's got his daughter-in-law running the RNC in between her like, stints in a recording studio making country music. He's totally taken over the party, right? Yes. Fully remade in his image, on a literal sartorial level as well. How do you help shape the party that is captured by this man? Yeah, I don't mean to be broken record, but I keep going back to the concept of local control. Trying to get good people to run for office, whether it's school board, or their town selectmen, or the city council. Washington DC has become a farce of itself. I mean, it's just a punchline to a never ending joke. And so that's sad, we don't want that, and it can be corrected, but probably no time soon. So in the meantime, let's focus on where people actually trust government. They trust government at the local level, at the state level. I guess I'm curious, like, something like 72%, I think, of Americans are not happy with either major party nominee, right? They don't want to vote for either of these people. So, what's the answer for people like that? To just suck it up? Well, but, they voted for these people. The Dems voted for Biden, the Republicans voted for Trump. So, it's not like they were just randomly chosen out of a hat. They are who their parties chose. And you know, I'm not saying that our party system is perfect, it definitely has its flaws, but this is the system. And people got to vote and choose, this is who they chose. So it's not like, you know, they, you know, they just magically Harry Pottered the way themselves to the top of the list. I mean, they got chosen. And I tried very hard to make sure Trump was not the candidate. I wish more people tried as hard as some of us did. But you know, it didn't happen. They wanted to support Trump, so they did. I would say this, I am very much an optimist. I believe in America, I believe in American people, I believe the fact that as much, as frustrated as we can get with our leadership, we still have the right to vote, and we still have the every right to pick our leaders. So, but we can be frustrated with the process, but it's still our process, and we still own it as voters. The lesson for me is that not every politician is like, psychotically obsessed with the White House at the end of the day. No, they're really not. Yeah, No, I'm not unique in that. And and by the way, it's a family dynamic, too. I mean, it's hard on families. My kids would never want me to be in the White House. You know, the other thing I talk a lot about, there is a lot of hypocrisy in government, right? And in politics. And that's frustrating, 'cause I think there's a lot of us, not that we are better than everybody else, but there's a lot of us, on both sides, yeah, that are really just trying to get a better result. But there's a lot of hypocrisy there. So if anything, maybe I'd write a book about all the hypocrisy in politics. I'd read that. Yeah. It's called "Never Buy a Book from a Politician" by Governor Chris Sununu.